about face

[lee duk sun]

in lieu of the side note comment that stirred a lot of responses on my last post, i thought it might be a good idea to open a new thread about it here.

i want to say that being in south korea amongst all these people who have for whatever reason chosen to undergo surgeries is a psychological mindf--k to me. i do feel glad, as i mentioned in my earlier comments on 'seeing myself in the mirror'... but it just makes me depressed that so many people here don't like the way they looked before, which was probably more like how i DO look. and, why?

i mean, people give michael jackson so much crap about what he's done to (and denied about) his face... it's clear that if you go through such measures to change something, it means you were ashamed or dissatisfied with what it was like before. and again... why?

<strong>percentages and the angle of trying to look like one particular race aside, the point is that people in asia are unhappy with looking asian.</strong> this upsets me...

we've all heard of so many people who say that all asians are beautiful, etc... and that bothers me greatly, to be completely honest. it seems to discard what each individual has and groups it into the fact that they're 'asian'. it reminds me of an older man who said "she's cute" when i walked by (in america) and the other man said, "they all are." ouch, you ignorant fool! is there a possibly way to snap that compliment off my face a little harder? but, if people are told that asians are beautiful, why are they unhappy enough with their faces to want to change them forever? once it becomes 90% of asian's with fake eyelids, noses, and chins, will it turn into a circumcision thing where they're getting them done at birth, in order to carry on the claim that their lids were natural like that? or so when they look at their kids it doesn't make them look at the side of themselves that they thought they'd abolished?

i understand that some people around the world have certain beauty 'customs' that changes or alters the way they look. like, in africa, some women would elongate their necks using metal rings... and i'm no stranger to tattoos or piercings, either. bod/mod is a different subject, entirely.

thanks... sun lee sunbeam

[deez nuts]

are you looking to get anything done? i can give you a referral.

[lee duk sun]

are you looking to get anything done? i can give you a referral.

wow, that's rude. makes me want to take my photo off this thing. comments like this make me wonder why i'm here...

[deez nuts]

wow, that's rude. makes me want to take my photo off this thing. comments like this make me wonder why i'm here...

no you look fine. i'm just offering you a possible solution to your angst.

fyi: i didn't even notice you had a pic up before you mentioned it here.

[lee duk sun]

well i hope that you're joking in thinking that plastic surgery is going to resolve my 'angst'–that is really more of a sad feeling–towards and for the people who are so unhappy with their faces that they permanently change them. and i'm specifically speaking of the south koreans because that's where i am now and that's where i was born.

[deez nuts]

well i hope that you're joking in thinking that plastic surgery is going to resolve my 'angst'–that is really more of a sad feeling–towards and for the people who are so unhappy with their faces that they permanently change them. and i'm specifically speaking of the south koreans because that's where i am now and that's where i was born.

hun, i never joke about surgery.

plastic surgery is not only cosmetic. it can also be therapeutic.

[lee duk sun]

i believe that when it comes to people who are disfigured or have situations that create a need for corrective surgery... but otherwise, changing the surface does not fix the issues that are deeper. i think people need to find a way to be more comfortable in their own skin and for their own characteristics, rather than just use surgeries–that can be dangerous–to create a quick fix.

then again, i'm not sure if i should take you too seriously. i just read your profile.

[deez nuts]

then again, i'm not sure if i should take you too seriously. i just read your profile.


you liked what you saw, didn't you.

[lee duk sun]

you liked what you saw, didn't you.

yes, of course! i can't control my excitement when it comes to men obsessed with their own body parts :tongue:

[uhhden]

yes, of course! i can't control my excitement when it comes to men obsessed with their own body parts :tongue:

flattery at its best.

[grimfan]

According to Western culture and media:

Asians look like this:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/332/pic1fp.png

Whites look like this:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ibiza1000w/images/celebrites/ibiza1000w_brad_pitt_0009.jpg

Asians are made to internalize ugly features as their standard appearance. Thus, any good-looking Asian is regarded as a deviance from the norm, like "their eyes are too Caucasian". Whites do not have a monopoly on big eyes; blacks have bigger eyes than whites., for one thing. If Asians ruled the world, then all whites would hate themselves and think that they were sickly pale, had no eyebrows, and had bad BO.

In order to free yourself from this mindset, you have to realize that there is no uniform Asian appearance. Even if you personally saw 100 000 East Asians in your lifetime, that's still only like what, 0.0000000001% of all Asians? You'll only meet the same percentage of whites in your lifetime, but nobody stereotypes the entire race of whites as a uniform appearance, or if they do, it's nowhere near as negative as the Asian image.

[lee duk sun]

i didn't want to get back into the "who asians are trying to look like" thing, because the point really is that many are unhappy with their natural appearances.

and being here now, i know more than ever how many different looks there are–in just south korea–let alone the rest of asia.

but yeah, the media seems to mess with everyone's else's self-esteem, so why not be the root of the cause here? but is that enough to make them want to defer to plastic surgery? or is there some other deeper self-esteem or psychological thing going on?

to be honest, if i knew about the double-lid surgery as a child, i'd have saved all my money up to get it as soon as i could. and that's probably mostly because of your reasoning about the people who ruled the world i was directly living in. but that wouldn't have made it less of a shame, and i think by now i would have grown to regret it...

[eos]

when i see a good-looking asian, all i think about is "wow, that is one good-looking person."
i don't recall myself ever wanting to look different. ever since i was small i was told i had a cute nose, and as i grew up, people told me i had dimples when i smiled. this was all natural.
the only thing that's "wrong" with my appearance is my glasses.
i feel really bad for people who think plastic surgery can help them be happy, cuz it won't. there will always be SOMETHING ELSE that looks or feels wrong.

[lee duk sun]

i think that's great. i wish more people were brought up in a way that would help create that mentality. :-)

i just found an interesting article, if you scroll down to the second title:
http://www.drmccurdy.com/news.htm

[eos]

the funny thing is, my cousin and i were always compared to each other. she was born in hk, me here. she was small, spoke and wrote chinese, talkative, sang, pale skin, round face...traits which my dad's side of the family valued. all i had going for me was perfect english and height, but that did not make me hate myself. weird twist, huh?
by the way, i'm STILL taller than her.

[lee duk sun]

the funny thing is, my cousin and i were always compared to each other. she was born in hk, me here. she was small, spoke and wrote chinese, talkative, sang, pale skin, round face...traits which my dad's side of the family valued. all i had going for me was perfect english and height, but that did not make me hate myself. weird twist, huh?
by the way, i'm STILL taller than her.

well it sounds like you grew up building your inner strength faster because of that, maybe? either way, it's a great attitude. and your comment on the height is hysterical... poor lil me is only 5'2" :eek:

[soulman386]

I think WFs have prettier facial features, eyes, and hair. My belief is some WMs perceive AFs as beautiful because of exoticness. The same thing happened when they encountered pacific island and native american women. But if you take exoticness out of the equation WFs are regarded as more beautiful. That's why black, indian, hispanic, arabic guys usually go for WFs if they're not with women of their race.

[lee duk sun]

I think WFs have prettier facial features, eyes, and hair. My belief is some WMs perceive AFs as beautiful because of exoticness. The same thing happened when they encountered pacific island and native american women. But if you take exoticness out of the equation WFs are regarded as more beautiful. That's why black, indian, hispanic, arabic guys usually go for WFs if they're not with women of their race.

well, everyone's entitled to their own preferences... but i'm beginning to think it's more media based. a lot of people have a hard time forming their own opinions–especially if they could be controversial–so i think a lot of people go with what they know is the acceptable.

i believe there are just as many ugly and beautiful people of every race and mix combination. it's just a matter of what percentage is seen in the right light... but that's just me.

[Paradox]

but yeah, the media seems to mess with everyone's else's self-esteem, so why not be the root of the cause here? but is that enough to make them want to defer to plastic surgery? or is there some other deeper self-esteem or psychological thing going on?

One interesting thing about asian-americans when they go overseas is that they tend to find their own insecurities with asian people everywhere. I don't mean this in a negative way but maybe you are projecting your insecurities a bit. You grew up around white people your whole life maybe you have a bit of a developed complex about that.

I have several friends from Korea and while plastic surgery is common there it's more of a "hi class" fashion statement more than anything. It's not done to look "white" or anything it's just done because some bored rich girls are tired of their noses. This isn't all that much different from what goes on in the U.S. except maybe girls there get boob jobs and cellulite surgery more often than chin tucks.

[lee duk sun]

One interesting thing about asian-americans when they go overseas is that they tend to find their own insecurities with asian people everywhere. I don't mean this in a negative way but maybe you are projecting your insecurities a bit. You grew up around white people your whole life maybe you have a bit of a developed complex about that.

I have several friends from Korea and while plastic surgery is common there it's more of a "hi class" fashion statement more than anything. It's not done to look "white" or anything it's just done because some bored rich girls are tired of their noses. This isn't all that much different from what goes on in the U.S. except maybe girls there get boob jobs and cellulite surgery more often than chin tucks.

well, although that first paragraph's an interesting perspective... i've digested it, and actually don't think that's the case. i was looking forward to seeing more asian people, different styles, and what not. what's weird is how much less i feel like i look like the native south koreans than i'd expected. and mostly due to the amount of people who I SUSPECT have had plastic surgery–and not because of that. i feel like i have to really watch my every word...

anyway, i'm not saying they do it to look white or even western in this post. in fact, the more i read about it, the more it seems it's just bad self-esteem or too much focus on appearance by society or the individual, themselves.

and i know how tons of americans are getting different surgeries done, too, and that different nationalities are known for particular surgeries and all. that's worrisome, as well. but the post was to try to get other people's perspectives on why the asians, the south koreans in particular, feel the need to get the surgeries they get. because percentages aside, they are getting done.

btw, the large amount of people whom i personally suspect to have these surgeries don't appear to be overly high class... they're your average person on the seoul and daegu subway lines and streets.

thanks for your input. xOx

[uhhden]

the funny thing is, my cousin and i were always compared to each other. she was born in hk, me here. she was small, spoke and wrote chinese, talkative, sang, pale skin, round face...traits which my dad's side of the family valued. all i had going for me was perfect english and height, but that did not make me hate myself. weird twist, huh?
by the way, i'm STILL taller than her.

hah...I think I value the speaking English over her singing, pale skin, and shortness.

[Irezumi Kiss]

anyway, i'm not saying they do it to look white or even western in this post. in fact, the more i read about it, the more it seems it's just bad self-esteem or too much focus on appearance by society or the individual, themselves.
I'm sure the whole "White People Have Been Making Us People Of Color Feel Bad About Our Ethnic Features Since Day One" thing may have at the very least a small part of the pie for playing for the cosmetic surgery shebang...but the sheer industry size of it all smacks more of a money factor than anything else, I think...

You keep that ball moving among a generation or two and it becomes a virtual ingrained contemporary cultural meme...one that you don't blink twice in thinking about doing. Like eating McDonalds even though it's bad for you. The homogenous social/racial nature of South Korea will keep it locked in place and so those rich cosmetic surgeons will never worry for a lack of moms taking their daughters for their "customary" double eyelid surgery once they come of age for the process, if they have the bank from the git-go or have been saving up for it like a college fund.

Actually, I feel like once you are of age and your own person, you should be able to do as you please in modifying your body (within reason), if it makes you happier living in your own skin and gives you joy. Piercings, tattoos, maybe a tentacle or two coming out of my elbows like Omega Red in X-Men...but I'd rather come to that decision myself instead of being told from others that I'm forever ugly unless I get it.

[kpih]

For those who are interested in thinking more about the subject matter...

Can we use the same framework in dissecting the construction of beauty among Asians/Asian Americans?

Globalization (2004)
Emulated through Images: The Globalization of Misconstructed African American Beauty and Hip-Hop Culture

Kerri A. Reddick-Morgan
Georgia State University

Abstract

From news coverage to entertainment, the media shapes, reflects, reinforces and defines the world in which we live. In publishing, theatre, films, television and popular music--industries largely controlled by white men--Blacks continually struggle for both a voice and representation. Many scholars write about the stereotyping of Blacks in the media (Meyers, 1999; Davis, 1989). Light skinned Black women with classic European features predominate in beauty pageants, music videos, and in the world of modeling. It is with respect to the world of modeling and music that this discussion will examine the globalization and commodification of Black female beauty. I will examine the historical creation of Black beauty in the United States and Europe and how theses misconstructed images play out globally.

Introduction

A number of writers discuss the adverse effects of this false definition of Black beauty (e.g. Kathy Russell, 1992; Alice Walker, 1982; Marion Meyers, 1999). These writers show clear links between this offensively constructed definition of Black beauty and the negative self -view it imposes. Researchers expose how the erroneous characterization of Black beauty/culture has created and reinforced this destructive definition of Black beauty/culture that is based on an American/European ideal.

Investigating these historically racist systems leads us to ask four serious questions: How are misrepresentations of Black beauty/culture played out in the modeling industry, cosmetic corporations? How does the media contribute to the global transmission of these images? What are the negative consequences of transmission of these misrepresentations? Finally, are there any positives that come from the global transmissions of African American beauty/and culture? An exploration of African American Hip-Hop sub-culture will expose how younger generations of people are defining themselves outside of the commodified, globalized mainstream ideal of beauty and culture.
Modeling and Televising ‘Black’ Beauty and Culture in The United States and Europe

The media portrayal of images that support the ideal that “white is right” and “white is beautiful,” has created and maintained the American / European beauty ideal; pale to fair skin, long straight hair (preferably blond) light eyes (preferably blue), slim nose and skinny. Unfortunately, this does not embrace the diasporas of Blackness, the many shades, shapes and colors of African American women. After much struggle a few African American women slipped into the public eye. These few women who were able to break the color barrier did so only because of their likeness to the “beauty ideal” (Jackson et al. 1979, Green 1991, Ferguson 2002). These women were decedents of slaves who though tragically created, were given the label mulatto and oftentimes passed for white or a close enough likeness to be accepted by mainstream society. In the U.S. specifically, many Black women were faced with a beauty ideal that did not resemble the reflection in the mirror. Many entrepreneurs began and sustained successful businesses based on selling the white ideal to the Black woman. Skin lightning became a common practice in the Black community (Russell 1992). There are still remnants of this practice visible at your local Walgreen’s.

In 1991 The New York Department of Consumer Affairs’ survey of over 11,000 ads in 27 magazines and of 22,000 pictures in 157 catalogues found that while African American women comprised 12% of America and 11% of the readers of magazines, only 3% of all models in magazines ads were Black. The pattern is similar with Latinos and Asians. The few minority figures that did appear in these advertisements were overwhelmingly cast in stereotypical roles: athlete, musician, menial worker, object of charity, or child (Green 1991). The range of “acceptable” images was narrow and the depictions of women were particularly debased: a maid or housekeeper. If in print, she represented the woman selling feminine hygiene products. Not until later in history did the Eurocentric vision of Black beauty infiltrate America media.

During the late 60’s Diane Carroll an African American model and actress was portrayed as a middle-class widowed single mother with one child. The Diane Carroll Show portrayed a slim fair skinned, docile nurse typifying the American ‘ideal’ of African American ‘family’, that of the single mother, beautiful which equaled lighter skin and assimilated. During the 60s and 70s there were very few African American leading males or females. The 80s and 90s saw a few more leading men come along. After Bill Cosby’s The Cosby Show – more Black women were seen in commercials – yet, for Black women, the roles were as predictable--the housewife, the overweight cleaning expert, sweet grandma, and soda-drinking teenagers-as they were few. This visual disparagement is not an oversight. What we see or don’t see affects how we think and feel about others and ourselves.

Stroman (1984) investigated the role of television representations of African Americans and how these representations affect attitudes and social habits. America’s lack of investment in minority consumerism only reinforces the view that minorities are seen as second-rate citizens. As a matter of practice, African Americans were shot only in-group pictures. This practice has been defined by Barthes (1957) as inoculation, a process in which advertisers or other capitalist consumer systems incorporate small elements of ethnicity into the media. By including small doses of ethnicity into mainstream media, advertisers reinforce racist ideals of separation, exclusion and acceptance at a “cost”. Additionally, advertisers help make certain that there is no significant relationship of their product with Blacks, while creating the hallucination that Blacks are significantly included in advertisements. For the advertising industry, the emergence of the “ethnic” market has not meant that many more minority images are used in general advertising. Instead, ethnic minorities are used in separate ad campaigns targeted outside the general market, in Black, Latino and Asian media. As a reaction to this exclusion, Black models wanted to discard the tired notion that dark brown skin predestined danger, fear, and poverty, and at the same time, sexual power and primitive authenticity. They wanted to dispel as well the outmoded haughtiness that lighter skin signified safety, accomplishment and astuteness, but also instability and yearning.

In Summers’ (1998) Skin Deep: Inside the World of Black Fashion Models, we see a very different view of Black woman’s beauty. The runways of Paris and Milan served as the stepping-stones of many highly paid Black fashion models. Despite the pervasiveness of racism, many Black models found acceptance in this part of the world. We can trace this acceptance to the life’s work of Josephine Baker. Although her story is by far not an exceptionally happy tale she did gain prominence and acceptance in Europe long before her popularity began in America. Iman, Naomi Campbell and many other African American models jump started their careers on runways in Europe. One model Carol LaBrie suggests that she was openly accepted in Europe because she was a beautiful Black woman. Unfortunately, this beauty was and remains for the most part the European ideal of slim, fair skinned, with long straight hair and light eyes.

Despite the acceptance of Black models as beautiful in Europe, there are definite racist corollaries between Europe and the United States. Both countries operated on an uneven accounting field. As noted in Skin Deep (Summers 1998), double bookings were performed (a practice of booking a white model and a Black model for the same shoot to target specific print audiences) and Black models received less that half the salary of white models. Another negative consequence that many Black models faced in these Euro-dominant societies was distaste for natural Black hair (kinky, curly, braids, etc…). As long as the unsuspecting public was appeased with the new, beautiful, and still fair skinned faces, the cosmetics companies who sponsored them could breath an uneasy sigh of relief. As representatives of a race, Black models always had to answer – by their presence-loaded questions ie what to do with their hair? The simplistic rhetoric of the 60’s equating processed hair with processed minds had left a bitter feeling behind. However no subject carried more weight than an age-old issue that mixed the personal and the political with the paycheck: The bottom line is that many Black women conformed to societies ideals of beauty. “We were willing to conform. We didn’t fight it. If you don’t give much thought to your identity you didn’t wear it right. You didn’t wear it with confidence. You had to feel and accept it. But most of us don’t have that type of strength. We just go with the flow. (Summers 1998:141)”

While Black models – and women in general in the developed world--blithely conducted experiments on themselves, they were also being observed and imitated by women in less developed countries. Top fashion model Elaine Evans comments, “Black people in Africa looked up to African American women for beauty in hair and hair but not fashion, because they think we dress terribly. But for hair and makeup, they know we’re the most advanced, so they’re following us” (Summers 1998:142).
Globalized Beauty

Elaine Evan’s comments on a trip to Africa where she witnessed first hand the effects of the depiction of African-American beauty on African woman. “Some African women have taken skin whitening creams to the limit. I’ve seen them mix those creams with Clorox, and paint it all over their body. They burn all their skin off, and then put oil on it, suffering all that pain just to become light. But they’re following us” (Summers 1998:142). Bertha, a barmaid in Dares Saloan, Tanzania, said in the past she used Mkorogo because “a lighter skin means beauty, and most men go for white women”(Munro 2001:11). The Ugandan and Kenyan government has taken measures to ban skin lightning concoctions because they caused serious aliments and even death. This skin lightning process is even popular an India. Current scholars are asking the question why are women doing this to themselves. “After decades of being ruled by the British, haven’t we learnt anything about pride in our color? Why are our girls being raised with the notion that if they are ‘dark’ they aren’t accepted? In a country of brown people how did looking normal come to be looked down upon?” (Gawle 2002:M7)

According to Sandoval through the differential, we find a strategy of contrasting philosophy that operates thorough mobility. Furthermore, Sandoval suggests that the power of the differential can be thought of as not drifting, but rather cinematographic: a kinetic motion that maneuvers, poetically transfigures, and orchestrates while demanding alienation, perversion and reformation in both spectators and practitioners. Unfortunately, the differential may not always be used for positive transformation. The media consistently uses the differential to maintain cultural oppression thru, inoculation, which allows the consumer to believe that difference is acceptable in a narrow spectrum and connected to the dominant perception of ideal beauty. (Barths 1957)

This beauty ideal is taken even one step further when the media portrays in a country of bottle shaped women all westernized movies and commercials that depict the average women as a stick figure that all men want. “M-Net, which shows mostly American movies and TV Shows, chose a skinny 6”2’ teenager from Largos, Oluchi Oruueagba, who is not considered particularly pretty here but became a hit on the runways” (Onishi 2002). This trend is becoming more popular in Nigeria and other counties in Africa and worldwide. “ Among young fashionable Nigerians voluptuousness is out and thin is in” (Onishi 2002). Print media, television, music and specifically music television are large tools in globalization. Through the images that are transmitted globally, women are bombarded with ideals of beauty that are not representative of themselves. It is through these mediums that women are attempting to construct their identities. The pervasiveness and influence of music and television on people is well documented (e.g. Brown and Campbell 1986; Curtin 1999; and Emerson 2002). Studies say identities are constructed thru popular culture (Hebdige 1979, LeBlanc 1999).

...

As an African American woman, I maintain that we are finally at a point when we get to say who we are what we are and to demand that the representation of what is beautiful and cultural no be static but fluid like everything else in the global market. That time has come to recognize and include the voices, faces, desires, opinions and concerns of those considered minorities, is supported by the creation of new cosmetic lines that support the multi-ethnic world we live in. In an interview by Renee White, Caroline Coulambe says: “Women of color are looking for makeup made especially for them…Thankfully the notion of a woman’s beauty is now cosmopolitan and universal, and no longer limited to images of pallid European runway waifs. Here’s to racial diversity and color” (White 2001:19). White also found that authors of publications aimed at young women were taking a more multiethnic approach. Forney asserts: “I believe that women of color are the women of the world-- African American, Native American, Hispanic, Middle Eastern, Indian, African and Asian. These women live right here in this country. It is time to address the concerns of the invisible consumer” (White 2002: 19). Many cosmetic companies are following examples set by major firms to broaden their consumer base by adopting or starting with a multiethnic approach. “The founders designed a custom skin-care line that can carefully be matched to the skin care needs of individuals in 40 ethnic groups” (Linm 2002:24). Roger Hall a professor in Media studies asserts that the use of multi ethnic women in advertising is a signifier of changing times and a change of what is considered beautiful. He credits the influence of the Hip-Hop subculture in the mainstream (Gordon 2001).

As a member of the Hip-Hop subculture, it is good to hear and see more women deciding for themselves who they are and that they are beautiful, no matter what Vogue or MTV may say. Admittedly there are still those who are unjustly influenced by the dominant view of what is beautiful and cultured, but with the current trend of Hip-Hop dominated, post-colonial inclusivity in full swing they have a greater chance of seeing their natural selves as beautiful. Things are definitely changing; slowly but surely. In times of DSL and high speed Internet access many more voices are heard. Cosmetic companies, fashion designers, and the media are taking note and some are responding accordingly to the wishes of the consumer.

That people of color are the majority is a fact that has to be dealt with and one that cannot be hidden. The tide is changing against the demonization of non-whites peoples, their culture and influence, and that the commodified global monster that was created by corporations based on unrealistic ideals of beauty and culture has to change, or risk extinction. The sub Culture of Hip-Hop is and has always been all about creative expression, resistance to oppressive power structures, and doing things another way.


Link to the full article: http://globalization.icaap.org/content/v4.1/reddick-morgan.html

[lee duk sun]

Actually, I feel like once you are of age and your own person, you should be able to do as you please in modifying your body (within reason), if it makes you happier living in your own skin and gives you joy.

well, i agree with that statement. it's just... how do you know you're emotionally ready to make such a big decision? lots of these people are teenagers, ya know? and a certain age doesn't really equal emotional maturity... especially if a person grows up in one place that glorifies it or makes one feel odd if they don't... and on top of that, doesn't have a chance to travel to see other perspectives first hand before making that decision. (btw, this doesn't imply that the korean teenagers who do this have never traveled. it's just a point.) and lastly, it's sad if a culture is breeding the desire to make you want to modify your face. because maybe you could be happier without the change if they lived in a place that didn't make them feel inadequate for it. then again, maybe it's just the person themselves, who feels inadequate... but then, why so many?

xOx

For those who are interested in thinking more about the subject matter...

Can we use the same framework in dissecting the construction of beauty among Asians/Asian Americans? [/url]

wow, thanks for posting that article. i have to just add that when i got to the end, i have to say that there's still a fairly large perecetage of colored women who are making it who are fair skinned and blonde. at least the ones who are promoted the most seem to fit that descript.

but, yes... i'd say it's probably similar for the asian americans. there are still too few asian americans portrayed as 'cool' in the american media. i mean... it's the same small group of men and women getting these roles. but i suspect that over time, that will change, as these movies they're in continue to do well. i'm just personally tired of them all playing the same kind of roles... i'd like to see more asian americans portraying regular americans in films, rather than the exotic or asian roles.

xOx
sun lee sunbeam

[grimfan]

What's so goddamn unique about Asians not being happy with their appearance? White Americans are watching The Swan, becoming anorexic, getting nosejobs, getting boobjobs, etc. Face it, as long as there is pop media, there are going to be tons of people unhappy with their appearances.

[lee duk sun]

What's so goddamn unique about Asians not being happy with their appearance? White Americans are watching The Swan, becoming anorexic, getting nosejobs, getting boobjobs, etc. Face it, as long as there is pop media, there are going to be tons of people unhappy with their appearances.

dude, did you even READ my initial post? i'm not saying it's unique... i'm just here and i wanted to delve deeper into the subject because it's bothersome to me. i just want to understand the psychology and behind it a little better. i don't give a %$#@ if it's not a unique subject. it's still interesting to me.

[deez nuts]

like i've mentioned awhile back on the topic: america is the hub of plastic surgeries followed by south america (i forgot which country probably brazil). the reason why everybody thinks korea is up there because plastic surgeons advertise more aggressively there. this was stated awhile back in the journal of the american society of plastic surgeons, i believe.

if you're breaking it down to specific procedures, then certain procedures will be more frequent in different countries. also do realize that certain procedures are more visible than others like blepharoplasty (eye lid surgery) and breast augmentation as opposed to say liposuction. a more visible cosmetic procedure indigenous to a certain area will give the illusion of said place as having more and frequent cosmetic procedures performed than those procedures performed that are not as visible.

you're buying into the hype.

[lee duk sun]

like i've mentioned awhile back on the topic: america is the hub of plastic surgeries followed by south america (i forgot which country probably brazil). the reason why everybody thinks korea is up there because plastic surgeons advertise more aggressively there. this was stated awhile back in the journal of the american society of plastic surgeons, i believe.

if you're breaking it down to specific procedures, then certain procedures will be more frequent in different countries. also do realize that certain procedures are more visible than others like blepharoplasty (eye lid surgery) and breast augmentation as opposed to say liposuction. a more visible cosmetic procedure indigenous to a certain area will give the illusion of said place as having more and frequent cosmetic procedures performed than those procedures performed that are not as visible.

you're buying into the hype.


what hype am i buying into? man, if you took the type to actual reaad what i was saying, i wasn't saying korea had the greatest percentage of the world. in fact, i mentioned that "percentages aside" it's happening, and i wanted to get behind why people felt the need to do it at all. this is the kind of laziness and defensiveness that makes this board counterproductive.

[deez nuts]

enough talk. come feel deez nuts.

[jongeh]

i don't get it. i feel like there's a question here that's been answered several times.
the question is "why"?
because people are never satisfied
because the grass is always greener on the other side
and the media does help to add to this thought by only showing certain types of people in positive/sexy/appealing ways.
that happens everywhere though, and it doesn't matter what race you are.

[koongchiulo]

I'm quite sure I heard on BBC that Sweden had the highest per capita plastic surgeries in the world followed by America and then Brazil.

If I could fix anything it'd be my bent nose, I wouldnt change the shape but I'd like it to be symmetrical

I'd do it for purely on the basis of me being vain :tongue: