Bilderberg

[ColinB]

How many of you are aware that a lot of people think there is already a World Government? Or that they think processes are already under way to bring about an oppressive global state? I learned all about it six years ago, and have been following this conspiracy story ever since.

I reserve judgement as to whether the wilder claims are true, but there is a Bilderberg Group, comprising big CEOs, bankers, media magnates and economists, and they do meet annually.

Why? Are they really mapping out the future history of World civilisation? Or is it something secretive, but innocent?

[snailpoo]

Go, go, gadget Google!


As an up-and-coming statesmen in the 1950s, Denis Healey, who went on to become a Labour chancellor, was one of the four founding members of Bilderberg (which was named after the hotel in Holland where the first meeting was held in 1954).

His response to claims that Bilderberg exerts a shadowy hand on the global tiller is met with characteristic bluntness. "Crap!"

"There's absolutely nothing in it. We never sought to reach a consensus on the big issues at Bilderberg. It's simply a place for discussion," says Lord Healey.

Formed in the spirit of post-war trans-Atlantic co-operation, the idea behind Bilderberg was that future wars could be prevented by bringing power-brokers together in an informal setting away from prying eyes.

"Bilderberg is the most useful international group I ever attended. The confidentiality enabled people to speak honestly without fear of repercussions.

"In my experience the most useful meetings are those when one is free to speak openly and honestly. It's not unusual at all. Cabinet meetings in all countries are held behind closed doors and the minutes are not published."

That activists have seized on Bilderberg is no surprise to Alasdair Spark, an expert in conspiracy theories.

"The idea that a shadowy clique is running the world is nothing new. For hundreds of years people have believed the world is governed by a cabal of Jews.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm

[ColinB]

Not being rude, I was really only interested in hearing from people who know of this already, I do not need to see replies from google wizards! :wink:

Your source really likes to play down Bilderberg:

"Formed in the spirit of post-war trans-Atlantic co-operation, the idea behind Bilderberg was that future wars could be prevented by bringing power-brokers together in an informal setting away from prying eyes.

"Bilderberg is the most useful international group I ever attended. The confidentiality enabled people to speak honestly without fear of repercussions."

Quoting a BBC source is ironic since the Chairman of the BBC, Michael Grade, is a member of Bilderberg! As is beseiged media tycoon Conrad Black, and Peter Mandelson (EU Trade Commissioner and the man widely regarded as the architect of the New Labour Party in Great Britain). Not heard of them? How about billionaire David Rockefeller? Umberto Agnelli used to be a member until his death. James Wolfensohn, former president of the World Bank is still a member. US president maker Vernon Jordan is a member.

It is a very long list of the ultra ultra powerful - and yet your source, the BBC, can only offer three news stories on an organisation that has existed since 1957.

Why is that?

You can see why I am intrigued. So many power brokers gathered together in secret and unminuted. What do they discuss and how does it affect the world?

[snailpoo]

Right, but as with most conspiracy theories, all you have is pure conjecture and no facts. You go from group of powerful people meeting to world domination without any sort of intermediary step.

This is an Underwear Gnome scenario:

Step 1. Steal Underwear.
Step 3. Profit.

Step 2?

What's step 2?


The other problem with these conspiracy theories is that you identify a clandestine entity (here, "powerful people") and then you lump them all together and assign them to a monolithic nefarious scheme, all the while ignoring their very different indiviudal agendas.

And lastly, what agenda are they setting, and how is this any different from a closed door meeting of the G-8?

[thaite]

illuminati?

[ColinB]

Right, but as with most conspiracy theories, all you have is pure conjecture and no facts. You go from group of powerful people meeting to world domination without any sort of intermediary step.


This is an Underwear Gnome scenario:

Step 1. Steal Underwear.
Step 3. Profit.

Step 2?

What's step 2?

The other problem with these conspiracy theories is that you identify a clandestine entity (here, "powerful people") and then you lump them all together and assign them to a monolithic nefarious scheme, all the while ignoring their very different indiviudal agendas.

And lastly, what agenda are they setting, and how is this any different from a closed door meeting of the G-8?

Thank you Snailpoo. If you've heard any particular stories or anecdotes about Bilderberg I would be interested. I ask questions but I'm not interested in someone disproving a conspiracy theory just to divert the thread before it has even started.

And I have not said anything about a conspiracy theory anyway. Bilderberg exists, but exists under a blanket of security tighter than yes even a closed door meeting of G8 leaders. I want to talk about the implications of that, not dismiss out of hand what it might or might not be.

I have already said I have reserved judgement. Bilderberg exists, I am just wondering what it might exist for.

The Bildergerg people are already lumped together. They have done it themselves. They do meet without any media coverage at all. Michael Grade's BBC does not report it, Conrad Black's newspapers do not report it. Do you think the press would really be uninterested in a meeting attended by Kissinger and Rockefeller and Holbrooke?

Maybe. Maybe not. A lot of people would want to know about such meetings though.

We usually only know who goes into a Bilderberg meeting only if a locally owned newspaper covers the story, and in 100% of all Bilderberg meetings, this story is still never syndicated. Can't say that about the G8.

That is curious in a world where every other detail and scandal of the individuals is covered by the press.

Please only bother replying if you have something interest to add. Don't kill my thread for the sake of it.

[A.R.A.M.]

Right, but as with most conspiracy theories, all you have is pure conjecture and no facts. You go from group of powerful people meeting to world domination without any sort of intermediary step.

This is an Underwear Gnome scenario:

Step 1. Steal Underwear.
Step 3. Profit.

Step 2?

What's step 2?


The other problem with these conspiracy theories is that you identify a clandestine entity (here, "powerful people") and then you lump them all together and assign them to a monolithic nefarious scheme, all the while ignoring their very different indiviudal agendas.

And lastly, what agenda are they setting, and how is this any different from a closed door meeting of the G-8?


In the case of some secret societies, we do have facts. And they're cold and hard. While the OP is fixated on the Bilderberg Group for some reason, he neglects other powerful, in-your-face-but-still-secret societies, such as the Council on Foreign Relations, which dominates most presidential administrations. It's European cousin similarly dominates the governments of various European countries. And let's not forget the Trilateral Commission. But by far the most nefarious secret society to date is the so-called Sacred Order of Stonecutters.

The Sacred Order of Stonecutters is a fraternal order that wields an inordinate amount of control over politics, the media, and even scientific research. The evidence for this lies in their anthem, "We Do." Here is one of the verses to this song in which they boast of their power:

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their site?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!

Think of the power a secret society needs to keep Steve Gutenberg famous! It's insidious.

By the way, the real emergency phone number is 912.

[snailpoo]

I've never felt so accepted in all my life. These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined.

[uhhden]

I've never felt so accepted in all my life. These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined.

Way to quote Homer.

[ColinB]

illuminati?

I have heard that groups like Aryan Nations think that Bilderberg are Illuminati. To explain to anyone that does not know, the Illuminati is an old myth about the world being run by the Jews. The Protocols of Zion (a racist book claiming to be the minutes from a meeting of the Rulers of the World!) rehashed the myth in the 20th Century, but in modern times it overlooks the fact that many of those who belong to the Bilderberg group aren't Jews.

The qualifications for membership are wealth, power, and above all else, influence over the masses.

The Bilderberg group claims is said to have formed post World War 2, but only after a writer published a book about the groups existence in the 1960s. Without the internet today, we'd probably not even know that much.

[snailpoo]

I have heard that groups like Aryan Nations think that Bilderberg are Illuminati. To explain to anyone that does not know, the Illuminati is an old myth about the world being run by the Jews.
Again, here's the problem with conjecture and speculation -you're now citing "facts" from... Aryan Nation?


Besides, I thought most historians tied the Illuminati, if they do or did exist, to the Free Masons, and through the Free Masons to the Knights Templar. It's difficult to imagine any truth to the Aryan Nation speculation when you consider who the Free Masons are and who the Knights Templar were.

[SunWuKong]

as difficult as it may be, because really, Bilderberg is a conspiracy theory, let's stay on the topic of Bilderberg instead of veering into a topic about conspiracy theory altogether.

[ColinB]

Again, here's the problem with conjecture and speculation -you're now citing "facts" from... Aryan Nation?


Besides, I thought most historians tied the Illuminati, if they do or did exist, to the Free Masons, and through the Free Masons to the Knights Templar. It's difficult to imagine any truth to the Aryan Nation speculation when you consider who the Free Masons are and who the Knights Templar were.


Snailpoo, what is the problem. Thaite said Illuminati question mark and I said by way of reply that I have heard that groups like Aryan Nation think that Bilderberg are Illuminati. How is that citing facts? In my full quote I then I go on to say that Illuminati is an old myth about the world being run by the Jews. You know what a myth is I assume. You know I am saying what the Aryan Nations think of Illuminati and am disagreeing with it at the same time.

Aryan Nation have a wide range of beliefs which they pass off as ancient but are actually quite comtemporary: ZOG, the Protocols of Zion, and so on. The Freemasons (not Free Masons) are not associated with goals of covert world domination so I fail to see any relevance, and has nothing to do with Bilderberg.

You are hounding this thread and I feel you are persecuting me for reason I cannot explain. Please stop.

[snailpoo]

I'm not trying to hound this thread or persecute you. And per SWK's instructions, I'll stick to Bilderberg.

The problem here is that you're asking for any and all speculation and any and all rumors regardless of source, or fact. You attempt to qualify each of your statements on Bilderberg by attributing them to others, AND you attempt a neutral tone in your first post by stating:

Why? Are they really mapping out the future history of World civilisation? Or is it something secretive, but innocent?

You appear to offer reponders OPTIONS that INCLUDE disbelief of the conspiracy theory. Yet, when I point out reasons and articles why Bilderberg might be "secretive, but innocent" and when I point out the fact that there ARE NO FACTS to support a more nefarious conspiracy plot, you accuse me of attempting to ruin your thread.

Were you not trying to keep an open mind, or was your first post merely a facade hiding your bias towards believing conspiracy theories?



Snailpoo, what is the problem. Thaite said Illuminati question mark and I said by way of reply that I have heard that groups like Aryan Nation think that Bilderberg are Illuminati. How is that citing facts? In my full quote I then I go on to say that Illuminati is an old myth about the world being run by the Jews. You know what a myth is I assume. You know I am saying what the Aryan Nations think of Illuminati and am disagreeing with it at the same time.

There's a point at which myths are disproven, and there's a point at which stories are too new, too contemporary, too shallow, too false, and held by too few to be considered a myth. If I said that 4+4 = 5, that would not be a myth.

When you apply the idea of Illuminati to Bilderberg, why include something obviously false? Bilderberg might be Illuminati. Fine, run with that. But Illuminati a global conspiracy run by Jews?

Aryan Nation have a wide range of beliefs which they pass off as ancient but are actually quite comtemporary: ZOG, the Protocols of Zion, and so on. The Freemasons (not Free Masons) are not associated with goals of covert world domination so I fail to see any relevance, and has nothing to do with Bilderberg.

Which is exactly my point. If it has nothing to do with Bilderberg, why introduce more falsehood?

You have scant facts as is. Bringing in additional false information doesn't help.

[ColinB]

The problem here is that you're asking for any and all speculation and any and all rumors regardless of source, or fact. You attempt to qualify each of your statements on Bilderberg by attributing them to others, AND you attempt a neutral tone in your first post by stating:

You have mistaken this as a thread about disproving conspiracy theories - however, the Bilderberg group exists, and I want to discuss what people have heard of it, if anything. Re Aryan Nations, as I said, I have heard what they think, I'm not using them as a source other than to say their belief is based on fabricated anti-Semite non sense.

Snailpoo - I have put you on Ignore for now. but if you continue to corrupt the topic I started, that I want to talk about then I shall just leave. I'm not here just so you can get your rocks off attacking other poster for no reason!

Mods - if you can't keep threads on topic, what arte you for?

All I can repeat is This is NOT looking for comments dissing conspiracy theory, I just want to talk about what you've heard!

Bilderberg attracts attention from across the political spectrum, but there is virtually nothing in existence in print about an organisation that meets for real.

Here is my experience.

My active interest in Bilderberg started about six years ago, though that was after a major catalyst. I first became aware of the Bilderberg group in 1990. I was working my way through university. During a gap year I had a job as a porter at the Château de Barive hotel, in a very nice part of Picardy. A luxury hotel secluded with its own woods and grounds. 186 rooms. The work was very hard and most guests were rich, which meant they were poor tip givers. I worked 12 hours a day six days a week all that Summer. Strangely, towards the end of the season I noticed guests were leaving but no bookings were being taken. I asked and learned that the hotel had been block-booked and that all rooms were being paid to be kept vacant as soon as guests had left. There was a date on which the hotel was 100% vacant, lasting for six days. When that first day came, it was like the President of the United States was coming. It was like a movie! Dozens of cars and trucks arrived carrying private security guards and systems. They took over all the out houses of the estate and the admin offices. It was very impressive. Then, on the second day, the guests themselves arrived, and I served them. Most I did not know. Many I knew their names from the press but had never seen or given much thought to. Among the names I had never heard of was one Bill Clinton, who was then a state governor. Other people I did recognise. Seeing Henry Kissinger and Robert Maxwell. it was amazing, simply amazing. Famous and powerful men (no women, all white men, no Asian, African) just appearing together with no press, to talk, then disperse again. The local newspaper ran an article about it, but amazingly the national press did not. That was my first encounter with Bilderberg. I often think back to that time and wonder what these very different characters would talk about and how those talks affected my life afterwards.

[A.R.A.M.]

From what I've heard of the Bilderberg group it is one part of a triumvirate, along with the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission, that secretly controls the world. All of these organizations are in turn secretly run by a cabal of shapeshifting reptoids (god, I love that term), who are eagerly awaiting the return of their home planet Nibiru, recently discovered in 2003 behind Pluto.

Once Nibiru--and the reptoids' reinforcements--returns, these elite organizations, which double as black magic cults a la the infamous Skull and Bones society, with its grotesque rites to the demon Moloch, will cull the world of the so-called "useless eaters": the handicapped, the mentally ill, the poor, and resisters to the New World Order. Once the world population has been winnowed down to about 2 billion, these groups will assume a feudal like control over the world. The world populace will be chipped and subjected to an intensive regimen of mind control being perfected by government scientists as we speak.

The future is bleak. That is, if you believe what you've heard about the Bilderberg Group.

[mr. x]

^---good God, only L. Ron Hubbard can save us now

[ColinB]

From what I've heard of the Bilderberg group it is one part of a triumvirate, along with the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission, that secretly controls the world. All of these organizations are in turn secretly run by a cabal of shapeshifting reptoids (god, I love that term), who are eagerly awaiting the return of their home planet Nibiru, recently discovered in 2003 behind Pluto.

Once Nibiru--and the reptoids' reinforcements--returns, these elite organizations, which double as black magic cults a la the infamous Skull and Bones society, with its grotesque rites to the demon Moloch, will cull the world of the so-called "useless eaters": the handicapped, the mentally ill, the poor, and resisters to the New World Order. Once the world population has been winnowed down to about 2 billion, these groups will assume a feudal like control over the world. The world populace will be chipped and subjected to an intensive regimen of mind control being perfected by government scientists as we speak.

The future is bleak. That is, if you believe what you've heard about the Bilderberg Group.

Well done, thank you for mocking my opinion, and a big round of applause to the mods for not protecting what I hoped would be a serious discussion about this very real group. of people. And lets hear it for the bully Snailpoo - mission accomplished, you have great success in driving away a newbie. I hope you feel big.

:frown: :frown: :frown:

[snailpoo]

Why? Are they really mapping out the future history of World civilisation? Or is it something secretive, but innocent?

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that when you initially posed your series of questions in your first post that you were predetermined to bias the entire thread to answering the second question in the affirmative and dismissing any thought as to the possibility that the third question might hold the answer.

I'll note that after you asked me to stay out of the thread, I did. It's not my fault that people disagree with your view.


All that aside, I'm relatively new to this forum myself, but I believe that this is a place that encourages viewing and discussing issues from all different perspectives. If you are put off by a mere difference of opinion, then maybe this isn't the place for you. I'm not trying to bully you. In fact, I'd actually like to see you present evidence that my posts are wrong, that your claims about Bilderberg are true. If people disagree with you, prove them wrong. Ignoring people who disagree with you and/or taking your ball and going home isn't going to get your point across any better than simply assuming and asserting that your particular perspective is correct.

[A.R.A.M.]

Well done, thank you for mocking my opinion, and a big round of applause to the mods for not protecting what I hoped would be a serious discussion about this very real group. of people. And lets hear it for the bully Snailpoo - mission accomplished, you have great success in driving away a newbie. I hope you feel big.

:frown: :frown: :frown:

You are the one who invited people to post what they have heard about the Bilderberg group, so don't get mad at me when I do just that. If it sounds ridiculous, well, that's because a lot of ridiculous things have been written about this organization.