CFL QB Timmy Chang thread

[lethal]

His coach, June Jones, predicts that Timy Chang will win a Heisman before he's done at Hawaii. Chang is currently a redshirt Sophomore and has 2 years of elegibility left after this year. Jones is a former NFL QB and former NFL head coach.

Hawaii passes a lot in that offense, so Chang should have some good numbers. Players from small schools with big numbers have won before. Hawaii usually has pretty good teams, so maybe one of the next 2 years they really put it together and go like 10-1 or something.

Keys to winning the Heisman - put up big numbers for a winning team.

Working against him is that he plays for Hawaii. Most Heisman voters are asleep when he plays and will never watch him.

I think it'd be huge for Asian American atheletes if he did win the Heisman. This is a guy raised in America playing QB and winning the biggest individual trophy in college football. Sure Dat Nguyen won the Lombardi (I think, or maybe the Butkis) award a few years ago for being the best lineman or linebacker, but this is the Heisman.

Sure he's proabbly a longshot, but we're just speculating here.

Here's a quote from the article:
"Hawaii coach June Jones has never been afraid to say what's on his mind. His latest comment of note: Warriors quarterback Timmy Chang will win a Heisman before he leaves the program. Chang, a sophomore, entered Saturday's game against Cincinnati fourth in the country in total offense. "He'll win the Heisman Trophy if he maintains what he's doing," Jones told reporters. "What's the pressure? If he does what he's doing right now, he'll win it." Knowing Jones, he was serious about the prediction. But he was also making sure the rest of the country didn't forget about his guy. Can't say we blame him, especially after Chang led Hawaii to a come-from-behind win against the Bearcats"

You can read it here (http://espn.go.com/magazine/geno_index.html) in note 5.

[kimchee63]

God, that would be great for every Asian American kid that's ever wanted to play football.

Did you know that Roman Gabriel (QB for the Rams in the 1960s) is Filipino?

-Kimchee63

[lethal]

Well, there's lots of Samoans and Pacific Islanders, Junior Seau, for example.

But a guy with a traditional East Asian surname would be huge from a public perception standpoint.

[kimchee63]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Nov 26 2002, 09:22 AM
Well, there's lots of Samoans and Pacific Islanders, Junior Seau, for example.

But a guy with a traditional East Asian surname would be huge from a public perception standpoint.
Yeah. You know it. It WILL happen. I just hope I'm alive when I see a starting NFL QB named Chang, Kim, or Nguyen.

[achtungbaby]

Well I'm just glad to see a Asian start at QB for a Div. I team -- that in of itself is huge, I think.

I'll refrain from jumping on the Heisman bandwagon, since the guy hasn't even taken a snap yet.

[kimchee63]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Nov 26 2002, 04:56 PM
Well I'm just glad to see a Asian start at QB for a Div. I team -- that in of itself is huge, I think.

I'll refrain from jumping on the Heisman bandwagon, since the guy hasn't even taken a snap yet.
There was another Asian American QB from Hawaii that started for Montana or Montana State a couple of years ago. He didn't get much notice because it was Montana, after all, and he was an option quarterback.

[lethal]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Nov 26 2002, 07:56 PM
Well I'm just glad to see a Asian start at QB for a Div. I team -- that in of itself is huge, I think.

I'll refrain from jumping on the Heisman bandwagon, since the guy hasn't even taken a snap yet.
He's a 2 year starter with 2 more years.

[BeTheReds]

Another one of the great yellow hope...

All the best to him, but I don't care about UH so I am not gonna root for him.

[Marley]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Nov 27 2002, 12:42 AM
Another one of the great yellow hope...

All the best to him, but I don't care about UH so I am not gonna root for him.
The "crab mentality" at it's best. Why don't we stick together and hold hands?

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Marley@Nov 27 2002, 07:08 PM

The "crab mentality" at it's best. Why don't we stick together and hold hands?
Hey, whatever, if you want to root for someone because he is the same race as you then go ahead.

I don't know anything about this guy. And I don't care about UH. Why would I instantly root for him?

[mrazntre]

Originally posted by Marley@Nov 27 2002, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Nov 27 2002, 12:42 AM
Another one of the great yellow hope...

All the best to him, but I don't care about UH so I am not gonna root for him.
The "crab mentality" at it's best. Why don't we stick together and hold hands?
you have to remember that you're replying to someone that didn't sign the Kung Fool petition.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by mrazntre@Dec 1 2002, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Marley@Nov 27 2002, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Nov 27 2002, 12:42 AM
Another one of the great yellow hope...

All the best to him, but I don't care about UH so I am not gonna root for him.
The "crab mentality" at it's best. Why don't we stick together and hold hands?
you have to remember that you're replying to someone that didn't sign the Kung Fool petition.
Does that make me inferior?

[mrazntre]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Dec 2 2002, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by mrazntre@Dec 1 2002, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Marley@Nov 27 2002, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Nov 27 2002, 12:42 AM
Another one of the great yellow hope...

All the best to him, but I don't care about UH so I am not gonna root for him.
The "crab mentality" at it's best. Why don't we stick together and hold hands?
you have to remember that you're replying to someone that didn't sign the Kung Fool petition.
Does that make me inferior?
Did I say you were inferior?

[Arex]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Nov 27 2002, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Marley@Nov 27 2002, 07:08 PM

The "crab mentality" at it's best.  Why don't we stick together and hold hands?
Hey, whatever, if you want to root for someone because he is the same race as you then go ahead.

I don't know anything about this guy. And I don't care about UH. Why would I instantly root for him?
So why don't you learn about him so you can root for him. I assume you root for other people/groups that you have just as distant/tenuous a relationship to. Why draw the line here?

Alex

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Arex@Dec 2 2002, 02:13 AM

So why don't you learn about him so you can root for him. I assume you root for other people/groups that you have just as distant/tenuous a relationship to. Why draw the line here?

Alex
Because, I don't care about UH.

If he were playing for the University of Maryland then I'd root for him.

Is it my obligation to like a QB who has not even yet taken a snap simply because of his race? No.

Am I a Dat Nguyen fan? No, I am a hater. Why? cuz he plays for the Cowboys and I am a Skins fan.


Why didn't you root for Maryland when we had a player named Wu? We even had a WU cheer, whenever he did something great, everyone would yell WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! Did you care? No.

[lethal]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Dec 1 2002, 10:19 PM
Is it my obligation to like a QB who has not even yet taken a snap simply because of his race? No.
He's played 2 years already and put up some pretty good numbers. He was on TV last night against Alabama.

He has 2 more years to continue to put up great numbers and his coach predicts that he'll be in Heisman contention.

Does this mean you should root for him? No, but you're not rooting agaisnt himeither. You're indifferent. That's fine too.

I just started this thread to point out that there is a very good AA playing QB for a good team and his coach predicts great things for him. I also commented that if he does indeed win the Heisman, then it could mean advancement for Asian Americans in the sports realm.

Oh...and boo to you BTR...your Terps (and the damn Pack and Clumpson) cost my Cavs a much better bowl bid. Did I mention we beat each of those 3 teams and finished 2nd in the ACC and we're still going to the 5th place bowl game? Now that just plain sux. So boo to you, BTR :pissed: :rolleyes: :P

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Dec 2 2002, 03:41 AM
He's played 2 years already and put up some pretty good numbers. He was on TV last night against Alabama.


Oh...and boo to you BTR...your Terps (and the damn Pack and Clumpson) cost my Cavs a much better bowl bid. Did I mention we beat each of those 3 teams and finished 2nd in the ACC and we're still going to the 5th place bowl game? Now that just plain sux. So boo to you, BTR :pissed: :rolleyes: :P
Oh, I stand corrected. But yea I am indifferent.

As for the football season I have not seen anything happen at all. I don't know what is going on. Being not in the USA will do that.

[Arex]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Dec 1 2002, 07:19 PM
Because, I don't care about UH.

If he were playing for the University of Maryland then I'd root for him.

Is it my obligation to like a QB who has not even yet taken a snap simply because of his race?  No.  

Am I a Dat Nguyen fan? No, I am a hater.  Why? cuz he plays for the Cowboys and I am a Skins fan.


Why didn't you root for Maryland when we had a player named Wu?  We even had a WU cheer, whenever he did something great, everyone would yell WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!               Did you care?  No.
Who's to say I didn't cheer the fellow on? How do you know I didn't care? How do you know I wouldn't care? Granted, I didn't, but that's more a matter of my own ignorance of Wu's existence than anything else.

Yeah, I'm not going to go out of my way and rabidly seek out, keep track of and join the fan club for every Asian and Asian American player in college and professional sports. But if I hear about one, I have no problem rooting for him or her (as long as he/she isn't a Trojan...and even then, maybe) simply because there is so little Asian and Asian American representation in sports (especially in basketball and football). Just like I'll always root for an NBA or NFL player that went to Santa Monica High School or UCLA, it's absolutely no skin off my back for me to root for an Asian brother or sister and hope that they go far to further break down stereotypes and provide role models for young aspiring Asian American athletes.

Of course you aren't obligated to root for someone just 'cause he or she is Asian. Honestly, I could care less what you think about Chang, et al. and Asians and Asian Americans in sports. I just found it kinda peculiar that you make it a point to explain that you won't be rooting for him, despite his being Asian. As if you're afraid people might assume the opposite.

Alex

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Arex@Dec 2 2002, 12:10 PM
I just found it kinda peculiar that you make it a point to explain that you won't be rooting for him, despite his being Asian. As if you're afraid people might assume the opposite.

Alex
Well in sports, I root for players I think are good and who I see and respect. Most likely these are the home team players cuz they get the most press in my home. I don't look at race as an issue. I am more concerned with the player's abilities and personality than I am his race.

Take Kurt Warner for instance. Definately not a Redskin, but I read his book and I think the is a great person and I respect him. I love the guy.

If this guy actually starts turning people's heads and doing well and getting press, then I will root for him. But I am not going to get behind a mediocre player and support him die hard because of his race.

IF the Orioles take Matsui I will be more inclined to be a fan of his than if he were a Yankee, regardless, I think he is a great player and I respect him.

And yes I am afraid that people will assume the opposite, because I don't want to be one of those people that only roots for crappy or distant teams because they have Asian players... like the Texas Rangers....or the University of Hawaii.

[anthoang]

Yeah I hope TC becomes an NFL quarterback and starts a few games. there's a TimmyChang website at http://68.121.172.186:81 with several video clips.
he's pretty good, got a strong arm and quick release. I'm trying to do my part to promote him and Hawaii football, so that NFL scouts can notice that asians can play too!!! we've got next.

[yangbahn50]

Hey, aren't you one of the guys on uhfootball.com's forum?

[Faithless]

Chang stats at espn (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=105182)

Got to keep those interceptions down.

[yangbahn50]

Got to keep those interceptions down.

yeah, but did you watch last week's Hawaii football game against Fresno State?

Fresno State is one of the elite powerhouse football in the WAC conference. IN fact last year, and the year before,...Fres State was ranked as high as 15 in both AP and ESPN Coach's poll.

I really pray that TC gets drafted. He's 6'2"...and very agile.

It's the receivers of UH who are making TC's stats look shitty.

[Cipherous]

TC is good but the reason why he gets so much yardage is because his coach runs a pass play almost everytime.

One thing is for sure that TC is no scrambler. I am not really sure if hes really NFL material.

[mrazntre]

TC is good but the reason why he gets so much yardage is because his coach runs a pass play almost everytime.

One thing is for sure that TC is no scrambler. I am not really sure if hes really NFL material.

if he has good pass protection, he won't need to scramble.

most pass oriented offenses put up big numbers. kinda like the pac10.

[princeton]

TC passed for 534 yds and 5 TD's (http://www.asianathlete.com/DaScoopsFormDisplay.aspx?ID=1429) yesterday in leading Hawaii to a 44-41 win over La Tech. I was listening to game, but fell asleep after Chang led 3 easy TD drives in the first quarter, but I guess Hawaii went to sleep, as they only scored a field goal in 2nd and 3rd Quarters. But Chang threw 3 TDs in 4th for a come-from behind victory.

[yangbahn50]

I also heard that TC threw 4 interceptions as well.

I see that the game between Hawaii and Louisiana Tech was a close game.

In the 3rd qtr., LA tech was winning. Somehow,..hawaii pulled off some tricks to save the day.

Next up...UTEP...should be cake walk for Hawaii...especially since it's a home game.

[Faithless]

Oh, by the way --

Warriors Finish the Season With A Bang! (http://hawaii.scout.com/2/335088.html)
By UH SID Published by Hawaii Sports Network
Date: Dec 27, 2004

HONOLULU - There's no place like home, especially on Christmas eve, as Hawai'i outscored Alabama-Birmingham (UAB) 31-14 in the second half to win the Sheraton Hawai'i Bowl, 59-40, Friday at Aloha Stadium.

A crowd of 39,754 filled the stands, the largest in Sheraton Hawai'i Bowl history. Quarterback Timmy Chang (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=219&p=8&c=1&nid=1336303) threw for 405 (31-of-46) yards and four touchdowns, and rushed for another, while slot receiver Chad Owens caught eight passes for 114 yards and two touchdowns, and scored another on a 59-yard punt return, to put an exclamation point on both storied careers. The two were named the game's co-MVPs, along with UAB quarterback Darrell Hackney.

Chang finished with 17,072 passing yards, the new NCAA career record. Chang finished his UH career owning 28 school passing records and 16 school total offense records. Owens finished as UH's career leader with 5,461 all-purpose yards and owns three UH all-purpose yardage records, five UH receiving records, five scoring records, six kickoff return records, and five school records for punt returns.

UAB (7-5) got the ball moving on its first possession of the game when Darrell Hackney found Roddy White for a 51-yard touchdown on 3rd-and-6. After Hawai`i's Melila Purcell blocked the PAT, Chang found Jason Rivers who made a leaping catch on the near sideline and sprinted 74 yards for a touchdown. Justin Ayat's PAT gave the Warriors a 7-6 lead, but not for long. The Blazers regained the lead when Hackney orchestrated an eight-play, 80-yard drive capped by a 4-yard run by Dan Burks to put UAB ahead, 13-7.

Chang, who completed a string of 10 passes for 215 yards in the first quarter, answered with an 83-yard drive. West Keliikipi's 4-yard touchdown run, set-up by a 52-yard catch-and run by Owens, put Hawai`i up 14-13. And then it was Gerald Welch's turn. The senior caught two passes, one that he managed to juggle into his hands for a 9-yard game, and another for a 29-yard touchdown, which gave Hawai`i a 21-13 lead. Welch finished the game with six catches for 85 yards and a score, and left immediately after the game was over to tend to his wife who was giving birth to the couple's second child. The Warriors took a 28-16 lead when Chang found Owens for a 13-yard touchdown, but the Blazers gambled and won on a 4th-and-6 from the 32-yard line. Three plays later, Norris Drinkard took it in from 10 yards out to make it 28-23. UAB's Nick Hayes added a 36-yard field goal to make it 28-26 at halftime. The Warrior air show continued in the second half. Chang threw a 15-yard strike to Owens to put Hawai`i ahead, 35-26.

The pass put Chang over the 17,000-yard mark as college football's career passing leader. Four minutes later, Owens side-stepped his way for a 59-yard score down the near sideline, to put the Warriors up 42-26. Justin Ayat added a 43-yard field goal, but Hackney managed an 80-yard drive and scored on a 4-yard touchdown rush to bring the score to, 45-33, heading into the fourth quarter. Chang helped put the game out of reach, putting together a 15-play, 85-yard drive, capped by a 4-yard touchdown scramble with 9:05 left to play. Hackney hit Lance Rhodes for a 17-yard touchdown to cut the warrior lead to 12 with 2:05 left in the game, but Britton Komine returned the onside kick 42-yards to the house to end all hopes for the Blazers. Warriors wide receiver Jason Rivers led all receivers with 11 catches for 148 yards and a touchdown. UAB's Roddy White led the Blazers with six catches for 113 yards and one touchdown. Linebacker Watson Hoohuli led the Warriors with 10 tackles, while UAB free safety Dominique Cosper also finished with 10 tackles.

[Cipherous]

its his last year this year right?

I wonder if he'll get drafted

[yoMAMA]

its his last year this year right?

I wonder if he'll get drafted

I hope he does.

There's always a place in my heart for the U of H rainbows.......[err...warriors
:mad: ]

[aman]

I heard Timmy Chang is in San Francisco right now being scouted by the NFL. and he's meeting agents to decide who will represent him... he's even meeting Leigh Steinberg. you can probably get more information here http://www.TimmyChang.net

[fresh22]

I hope he makes it on a team, though I think even if he does sign an undrafted free agent contract and makes it on a team roster he will just rot on the sidelines and bounce out of the NFL in a season or two.

Heh there is always the CFL or AFL to showcase his abilities and make NFL teams regret letting him slip through. You know the AFL is pass happy, like the system he was at in Hawaii (brings up images of the pre-bust Kurt Warner).

[sOKaLiBoY]

he is going to have a hard time getting drafted. He doesn't get a lot of tv coverage because of the time they play in hawaii. Also he plays is a weak conference (WAC) and in a all passing offence. thats why his numbers are so good. also remember that the 94 TD passes are great but he also has thrown 61 INT's. i hope he gets the chance to play in the NFL but he wouldn't be starting anytime soon

[lethal]

I dubt he'll ever get a starting gig. He wasn't exactly lighting it up in college. Sure, he had great numbers, but in that offense, everyone had great numbers. Remember, this is the NCAA's all time leader in passes intercepted. That doesn't instill great confidence in his ability to read defenses or make good decisions.

I'm a big fan though and I hope that his pure physical abilities will convince a team to draft him in a later round and give him a chance to develop. He's got a strong arm and would be as good as anyone Arizona or Chicago threw out there this year. His ceiling is probably solid back-up QB.

[mslady]

Timmy!!! way to represent!! do you have a girlfriend?

[raacluse]

latest article... among other things, mulls over the role of race in impressions of Chang:

preconceptions bias evaluation of Chang (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/don_banks/04/15/chang/)

[yoMAMA]

latest article... among other things, mulls over the role of race in impressions of Chang:

preconceptions bias evaluation of Chang (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/don_banks/04/15/chang/)

Isn't Roman Gabriel the first asian american QB in the league?

He's filipino american and played for the L.A Rams in the 60s.

[lethal]

The article notes that Chang's agent is Don Yee, who is profiled in this YW post (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=22854).

[deez nuts]

undrafted in the recent draft. but, the cardinals (i think)signed him.

that's your boi.

[yoMAMA]

that's good, denny [Mr. Shariff]green have a good system and is reknowned for developing quarterbacks [which includes the great daunte culpepper]

not that Timmy Chang have the talent of Culpepper :D

[haplesshobo]

i'm curious why he wasn't drafted?

and, no, i don't think it was an asian thing or that he played in a small conference.

you had other players playing in division II who got drafted. but, then you also had jason white who won the heisman also not get picked either because he had a weak throwing arm.

that's probably why chang didn't get taken as well.

[yoMAMA]

i'm curious why he wasn't drafted?

and, no, i don't think it was an asian thing or that he played in a small conference.

you had other players playing in division II who got drafted. but, then you also had jason white who won the heisman also not get picked either because he had a weak throwing arm.

that's probably why chang didn't get taken as well.

Jason white doesn't have a weak arm.

He doesn't have an arm.

:biggrin:

[Grasshopper]

Isn't Roman Gabriel the first asian american QB in the league?

He's filipino american and played for the L.A Rams in the 60s.

Yes and Roman Gabriel was about 6'5" tall.

Although i don't know that he was full Filipino.

http://www.profootballhof.com/images/content/photos/1962gabriel.jpg

[lethal]

i'm curious why he wasn't drafted?

and, no, i don't think it was an asian thing or that he played in a small conference.

you had other players playing in division II who got drafted. but, then you also had jason white who won the heisman also not get picked either because he had a weak throwing arm.

that's probably why chang didn't get taken as well.

Chang played in a spread offense in Hawaii where he lined up in the shotgun formation on every play. Also, he lead the NCAA in career interceptions, which is a function of how much he throws the ball, but its also a function of his less than stellar ability to read defenses.

I can't say if race played a factor in his not being drafted, but I know his not playing in a pro style offense did.

I think he'll get a shot in AZ. They didn't draft any QBs, so at worst he should got a shot on their practice squad for a year and a promotion to the active roster if any of the QBs get hurt. Given how AZ rotated QBs last year and Kurt Warner's injury history, Chang's on a pretty good team if he wants a shot.

I still think his ceiling is solid back-up QB if he can learn how to hold for kicks.

[yoMAMA]

Chang played in a spread offense in Hawaii where he lined up in the shotgun formation on every play. Also, he lead the NCAA in career interceptions, which is a function of how much he throws the ball, but its also a function of his less than stellar ability to read defenses.

I can't say if race played a factor in his not being drafted, but I know his not playing in a pro style offense did.

I think he'll get a shot in AZ. They didn't draft any QBs, so at worst he should got a shot on their practice squad for a year and a promotion to the active roster if any of the QBs get hurt. Given how AZ rotated QBs last year and Kurt Warner's injury history, Chang's on a pretty good team if he wants a shot.

I still think his ceiling is solid back-up QB if he can learn how to hold for kicks.


shotgun on every play?

that sounds like the pass happy NFL. :biggrin:

also, I think his college coach is June Jones, who used to coach the atlanta falcons.

[lethal]

shotgun on every play?

that sounds like the pass happy NFL. :biggrin:



What the hell are you talking about?

Dude, name one team that uses the shotgun even more than 20% of the time. The NFL is all about the I formation and the QB lining up under center. Teams try for about a 55/45 pass/run ratio.

[yoMAMA]

What the hell are you talking about?

Dude, name one team that uses the shotgun even more than 20% of the time. The NFL is all about the I formation and the QB lining up under center. Teams try for about a 55/45 pass/run ratio.

I think the jacksonville jaguars uses the shotgun very frequently, with the gigantic byron leftwhich.

[lethal]

I think the jacksonville jaguars uses the shotgun very frequently, with the gigantic byron leftwhich.

He seems to operate better out of the shotgun, but the Jags then have no runing game. In one game where he operated out of the shotgun a lot, "the Jags gained just 12 yards on five rushes out of the shotgun, notable because their coaches feel the skills of tailback Fred Taylor are diminished a bit if Leftwich isn't under center." http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1894422

This is why the Jacksonville coaches don't like going shotgun and why they gave it up as the season progressed.

The shotgun as an offense does not work in the NFL. This is why shotgun QBs in college have a hard time succeeding in the NFL.

It was a question about Leftwich, it is a question about Alex Smith, and it hurt Timmy Chang a lot.

[yoMAMA]

The shotgun as an offense does not work in the NFL. This is why shotgun QBs in college have a hard time succeeding in the NFL.

It was a question about Leftwich, it is a question about Alex Smith, and it hurt Timmy Chang a lot.

while I certainly agree with that.

look at steve spurier's "fun and gun" offense, it got him no where in the NFL.

same with tim couch, the former number 1 pick.

the only shotgun success from college to pros is my beloved Daunte Culpepper, and he operates under a vertical passing game in the vikings, now without randy moss :frown: :frown: :frown:

[haplesshobo]

June Jones was also coach of the SD Chargers when Ryan Leaf was the QB. He figured it wasn't worth the agravation, and left to coach Hawaii instead of in the NFL with a nutcase like Crying Ryan.


alex smith operated under a shotgun offense in college as well, and he was taken first overall.

obviously, if chang had the skills or athletisim to succed, he would have been drafted if only as a project.

i can't believe jacksonville wasted a first round draft pick in selecting arkansas QB when they're going to try to convert him to a WR.

[lethal]

I think Chang's problem isn't his athleticism or his arm strength. He's said to have a better than average arm.

He's said to be lazy and hasn't developed in years. He's not good at reading defenses. That's why he throws all those INTs. Maybe in the NFL he'll work to get better at it. At worst, he'll make the AZ practice squad. At best, he beats out John Navarre for the #3 spot in AZ.

[haplesshobo]

If he can't read defenses in college, then there's no way he will make it in the NFL even as a backup.

They actually said that was one of the positives for Alex Smith working in the system he had in college- it forced him to bear a lot of the responsibility and recognize defensive schemes.

[lethal]

Arizona didn't draft a QB, so right now Chang's #5 on the depth chart. Assuming 3 make the active roster, most teams keep 1 QB on the practice squad. They sent their #4 guy, Chris Lewis (from Stanford) to NFL Europe where he's a teammate of Japanese QB Kentaro Namiki (http://www.nfleurope.com/players/playerpage/1134). Lewis is currently the back-up on the team to some guy the Bills allocated, so its safe to say that this Lewis kid is probably not very good.

Chang can probably get a spot on the practice squad if he works hard. Reading defense is a skill a QB can learn if he works at it and watches film. We'll see if Chang is up for the job. I think he has the physical skills to make the league. Maybe not start, but be a solid back-up.

I have hope for the kid.

[Grasshopper]

He's said to be lazy and hasn't developed in years. He's not good at reading defenses. That's why he throws all those INTs.

This is probably the top issue. He is the all time college football interception leader.

You think it's tough to read defenses in college? Try the NFL with tricky schemes and super fast DBs.

i can't believe jacksonville wasted a first round draft pick in selecting arkansas QB when they're going to try to convert him to a WR.

No, Matt Jones has huge potential. He maybe the best pure athlete in the draft.

He's 6'6" 235lbs and runs a 4.4s 40yds. :eek:

I think Jacksonville should keep him at QB and give him a try there.

Matt Jones highlight videos:

http://oinkville.tripod.com/jones70.wmv

http://www.woopigsooie.net/mattslammajamma.mpeg

http://oinkville.tripod.com/mjtexas.wmv

[doe-sun]

He got cut from Arizona, and then the Detroit Lions picked him up to try out for a spot on the roster, behind two vets and two rooks.

And then they just cut him a few days ago. Damn, I was hoping to have an Asian QB this year.

[hooligan]

Wasn't he like 5th seed orsomething, I read?

[lethal]

He was 5th on the Lions depth chart. They just brought him in for a few days to take a look at him and see if they wanted to sign him to their practice squad.

Either Arizona or Detroit will sign him to their practice squad this week, especially now that Garcia got hurt last weekend.

[Faithless]

Practice squad. Considering how he's been tossed around as shown in the last few posts, sounds like it's as good an option as anything else.

What happened to my boy? He not healthly? Or is his game just not there?

[mrazntre]

Practice squad. Considering how he's been tossed around as shown in the last few posts, sounds like it's as good an option as anything else.

What happened to my boy? He not healthly? Or is his game just not there?

I'm thinking the game isn't there for the big leagues, but I haven't read any reports other than a few scouting ones a couple months back and hearing coworkers rants about him being a perfect fit for the Arena league.

[pablohoney]

Damn, I was hoping to have an Asian QB this year.

Hey, there's already an APIA QB in the NFL, Marques Tuiasosopo (1/2 Samoan). Now if only he'd get a chance to play. I think he's still got a shot to be a good player in the league but he might end up being another Rich Gannon, a guy who didn't get a chance to start until halfway through his career.

[mrazntre]

Hey, there's already an APIA QB in the NFL, Marques Tuiasosopo (1/2 Samoan). Now if only he'd get a chance to play. I think he's still got a shot to be a good player in the league but he might end up being another Rich Gannon, a guy who didn't get a chance to start until halfway through his career.

Didn't he get a chance to start last season? If that's the same guy, it seemed like they gave him mediocre reviews.

[pablohoney]

Didn't he get a chance to start last season? If that's the same guy, it seemed like they gave him mediocre reviews.

No, that was two years ago. Gannon got hurt that year while the Raiders were trailing KC and Tuiasosopo came in and almost rallied the team to a win. He got the first start of his career the next week against Detroit, where he promptly blew out his knee in the 2nd quarter and missed the rest of the season. Kerry Collins was then signed in the off-season and promoted to the No. 2 QB behind Gannon last year. After Gannon hurt his neck, Collins got the starting job and Tui barely moved from the bench.

I'm probably biased because he played for my alma mater, but I think Tuiasosopo can be a very good player in the league. He was practically a one-man team in college, making big plays even though he was stuck with a mediocre set of recievers and backs. At the least I think he could be another Jeff Garcia.

[lethal]

I don't think Chang is very good at reading defenses. He has all the physical tools, but there's a reason he's the NCAA career leader in passes intercepted.

[yoMAMA]

does he have NFL level arm strength?

I heard that in hawaii they operate out of shotgun on every play.

[mrazntre]

does he have NFL level arm strength?

I heard that in hawaii they operate out of shotgun on every play.

What does that mean?

(btw, i'm not being patronizing or sarcastic, I don't know what it means, really... )

[pablohoney]

The shotgun is when the QB is standing a few yards behind the center and the ball is snapped to him through the air (rather than him being directly under center and taking a handoff). Like so:

http://www.states4u.com/Sport/immagini/shotgun.jpg

Hawaii runs an exotic, pass-dominated offense (the run-n-shoot), which nobody runs in the pros (Houston did for a few years in the 90s, though). It doesn't help that quarterbacks who played in that kind of offense in college haven't had much success in the pros, even the ones who were drafted highly and had good physical skills (David Klinger and Andre Ware from U of Houston, for example).

[doe-sun]

yeah, Hawaii loved that shotgun style, but it was more necessity than anything else. Their offensive line was always outsized, and usually crumbled right after the snap.

But you'd think that a QB who's used to being chased (due to weak offensive-line protection) would do well on a professional team with an o-line of comparable size to other teams.

[mrazntre]

The shotgun is when the QB is standing a few yards behind the center and the ball is snapped to him through the air (rather than him being directly under center and taking a handoff). Like so:

http://www.states4u.com/Sport/immagini/shotgun.jpg

Hawaii runs an exotic, pass-dominated offense (the run-n-shoot), which nobody runs in the pros (Houston did for a few years in the 90s, though). It doesn't help that quarterbacks who played in that kind of offense in college haven't had much success in the pros, even the ones who were drafted highly and had good physical skills (David Klinger and Andre Ware from U of Houston, for example).

oh, okay thanks for the explanation, i was thinking the right thing. we used to always call the shotgun when we played ball in school.

I was more confused on the statement above

"does he have NFL level arm strength?"

what's that have to do with running the shotgun ?

[yoMAMA]

I was more confused on the statement above

"does he have NFL level arm strength?"

what's that have to do with running the shotgun ?

well usually a quarterback with a big arm don't operate out of shotgun on every play.

other than, say, Daunte Culpepper when he was at UCF (he's got a rocket arm, can throw it 75 to 80 yards).

[mrazntre]

so they're going for the quickness angle on the play ?

[pablohoney]

I think concerns about Chang's arm strength are more a result of him running the run-n-shoot, because they call a lot of short pass plays in that system and don't require the quarterback to throw much downfield. I believe the concern with him playing predominantly out of a shotgun is that his footwork and timing are not developed enough to play in a pro-style offense. But if a quarterback has a below-average NFL arm, he's going to have a hard time making it, because strength & accurary are the top two things pro scouts are looking for. It's the equivalent of height for an NBA center.

[mrazntre]

I think concerns about Chang's arm strength are more a result of him running the run-n-shoot, because they call a lot of short pass plays in that system and don't require the quarterback to throw much downfield. I believe the concern with him playing predominantly out of a shotgun is that his footwork and timing are not developed enough to play in a pro-style offense. But if a quarterback has a below-average NFL arm, he's going to have a hard time making it, because strength & accurary are the top two things pro scouts are looking for. It's the equivalent of height for an NBA center.

ok, that sheds a lot of light on things.

i wonder if he does have a below-average arm. regardless of the offense he was running in Hawaii, the scouts had a good luck at him in practice and training camp. I wonder what they rate him.

[mrazntre]

I was just trying to find some more recent info on TC and found the following SI article pre-draft:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/don_banks/04/15/chang/index.html

i found it interesting, dunno if anyone still cares.

[doe-sun]

Dudes, he had an awesome arm! I watched him for two years, cuz UHawaii games were broadcast in California.
I can say with absolutely certainty how TC got those record-breaking 4000+ yards: lots and lots of medium and long-range passes.

[pablohoney]

I was just trying to find some more recent info on TC and found the following SI article pre-draft:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/don_banks/04/15/chang/index.html

i found it interesting, dunno if anyone still cares.

That was a pretty good article. I think there is a lot of subconscious racial profiling in sports. Practically every good white basketball player for the past 20 years has been compared to Larry Bird, regardless whether their style bore any resemblance to his. And why did it take so long for black quarterbacks to become accepted in the pros? Somewhere along the line people must've thought they just didn't "fit" as quarterbacks, even while they overtook almost every other position on the field.

But getting back to Chang, I'm not really too familiar with him but I have seen a lot of great college QBs not make it in the pros. Ty Detmer, IMO, is the best college QB I've ever seen, but every time he got a chance to play in the pros he looked overwhelmed. Unfortunately Chang didn't even make a final roster, but there's always the Arena, World League, and Canadian football. It's still a long shot, but there have been guys who've proven themselves in those leagues and then come back to have success in the NFL.

[mrazntre]

Any progress on TC?

[lethal]

Maybe Arena, CFL. Jets have QB problems, but his best shots are still the Cards or the Lions. Maybe the Titans with the Norm Chow Hawaii connection. But those teams don't have massive injury problems at QB right now.

[grimfan]

But if a quarterback has a below-average NFL arm, he's going to have a hard time making it

Yeah, if the secondary doesn't respect a QBs ability to go downfield, then they'll smother the short-medium passing lanes. In Minny, with Culpepper and Moss, their opponents' defense had to always use a safety to double cover Moss on streaks, so that really opened up the field for the other receivers, as well as for the running backs.

But strength isn't everything. I think David Carr has the strongest arm in the NFL, but who cares? Tom Brady seems to mostly throw screen passes, and most players regard him as the best QB in the league.

[haplesshobo]

Maybe Arena, CFL. Jets have QB problems, but his best shots are still the Cards or the Lions. Maybe the Titans with the Norm Chow Hawaii connection. But those teams don't have massive injury problems at QB right now.

I don't get the Norm Chow Hawaii connection. That's pretty much grasping at straws. Chow was born and raised at Hawaii, but he's been off the island for years now and been coordinating at Utah and SoCal, not Hawaii. It would make more sense if Chang had played for Chow at some point, but that hasn't happened.

Jets starting QB, Chad Pennington, is out for the rest of the year. And, their back up QB is also hurt. So, they're going to bring in Testaverde.

At this point, even with injuries to a QB, a team isn't going to turn to a rookie QB like Chang. Instead, they're going to turn to somebody with experience like Quincy Carter as QB in the NFL is the hardest thing to learn. The only time a team turns it over to a rookie QB is to train him when he's the QB of the future.

The Lions will probably get rid of Harrington after this year if he continues to perform as poorly, given the talent he has around him. They've invested so much into their offense, specifically at WR, yet they don't have a QB to throw the ball to those Wrs.

[lethal]

That's pretty much grasping at straws.

Pretty much. Notice I said maybe and it was just some team I threw out.

No team's going to sign Chang to play this year, but some team with injury problems and who have to elevate a back-up to a starting position may sign Chang for development.

Kurt Warner of the Cards is hurt and not playing this week. If he's out for the year and they have to replace him with the back-up, then maybe the Cards bring in Chang as a developmental QB, something like that.

After not getting signed to anyone's practice squad, there's not much hope of getting signed this year.

Otherwise its the AFL and CFL or just hanging out on the beach or putting that UH degree (assuming he got one) to work.

[haplesshobo]

It just seemed like a strange argument about Chang and Chow. If you substituted different names and used the same argument, I don't think anybody would buy it. A coach isn't going to take on a player just cause they're both from the same state.

It might be actually better for Chang to not sign with an NFL team at this point. If he did, no team is let him touch the ball since he's a rookie. He would be buried as the #3 starter and I question how much he could develop in that type of situation. He probably wouldn't even get that many touches in practice. At least, with AFL or CFL or NFL Europe, he would get a lot more touches. If he did well enough, even get signed in a few years.

[haplesshobo]

Hadn't thought about Chang until I read a LA Times sports article where he was a punchline. In that article, the writer was examining how misleading statistics are in the NCAA vs. the NFL, and how the stats we were seeing didn't tell you the true story of what was going on in college football.

He said that in the pros, the all time leaders are almost always the all time best players.

But, that it ain't necessairly true in college football.

The all time leader in yards per game rushing was Ed Marinaro.

The career leader in completion percentage was Ryan Dinwiddie.

The all time receiver in terms of yards was Trevor Isley.

And, the the all time career leader in passing yards was Tommy Chang.

[haplesshobo]

Anyways, what's happened to him since then?

[proazn]

Chang should have thrown more imcompletions so he wouldn't be the all-time passer, huh?
just go to http://www.TimmyChang.com for latest news.

[Faithless]

Anyways, what's happened to him since then?

Eagles were looking at him in December (http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15685207&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18170&rfi=6).
With an eye toward the future, the Eagles worked out an assortment of prospects earlier in the week, including quarterback Timmy Chang, bidding to become the first Asian American to start at passer in the NFL.

Some scouts consider Chang a lean, raw and athletic passer with a quick release and decent feet. At 6-1, 194 pounds, he’s not the physical specimen generally sought by NFL teams.

Chang completed 58.8 percent of his attempts for 3,853 yards with 34 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 2004, his senior year at the University of Hawaii. Chang broke a handful of NCAA Division I-A records in a four-year career including 17,072 passing yards. Chang ranks second all-time with 117 career TD passes and first with 73 interceptions. Ty Detmer, with 121 TD passes, ranks first on the list. Detmer started for the Eagles in the mid-1990s.

Certainly wasn't on SI's list of active QB's.

So, when does Timmy look to Canada for a little action, if the NFL is being tight?

[lethal]

Chang will hopefully get signed by some team after the season and get sent to Europe to play there. If he's good enough, he'll win a starting job in Europe and get some playing time in a pro style offense and see what happens. A good performance in Europe will probably get him at least a 3rd string role somewhere.

[lethal]

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/homeNewsDetail.jsp?id=43146

There is hope here. The Eagles backup QBs, McMahon and Detmer, are horrible. The best way for Chang to get a roster spot with the Eagles is 1) play well in Europe and 2) learn to hold for kicks. Detmer is on the roster almost exclusively as the holder.

The Eagles have signed 12 players and have assigned nine players to NFL Europe, including second-year defensive tackle Keyonta Marshall. Among those players signed was punter Reggie Hodges, who averaged 36.8 yards per punt in 2005 with the team.

Players signed on January 11, 2006

Player



Height
Weight College
FS Ed Canonico 6-1 180 Sacramento State
DT Jeremy Caudill 6-2 318 Kentucky
QB Timmy Chang 6-2 194 Hawaii
TE Jonas Crafts 6-3 250 Texas El Paso
C Dominic Furio 6-3 305 UNLV
WR Michael Gasperson 6-4 220 San Diego
P Reggie Hodges 6-0 226 Ball State
DE Darrell Lee 6-4 273 Florida
SS Corey Peoples 6-2 212 South Carolina
SS Brandon Pinderhughes 5-11 195 Nebraska-Omaha
WR Edward Simms 6-4 230 William Penn
TE Andy Thorn 6-5 250 Northern Iowa

Here is a brief look at the 12 players signed:

# Free safety Ed Canonico was signed to the team's practice squad on November 30 and spent the reason of the 2005 season there. The 6 feet 1, 180-pounder played collegiately at Sacramento State.

# Defensive tackle Jeremy Caudill is a 6-2, 318-pounder from Kentucky who has been assigned to NFL Europe.

# Quarterback Timmy Chang compiled an NCAA-record 17,183 yards in total offense at Hawaii, and then went undrafted. He has been assigned to NFL Europe.

# Tight end Jonas Crafts is 6-3, 250 pounds and played collegiately at Texas El-Paso. He was signed to the practice squad on December 13. He has been assigned to NFL Europe.

# Center Dominic Furio was a seventh-round draft pick in 2004 and spent his rookie on injured reserve. He was cut in training camp and was added to the practice squad in November.

# Wide receiver Michael Gasperson had a fine career at San Diego, but then suffered an injury and wasn't drafted in April. The Eagles signed him in September to the practice squad, released him two weeks later and then signed Gasperson on September 27 to the practice squad. He has been assigned to NFL Europe.

# Hodges has long been lauded as having a big leg, but he lacked the consistency needed to play at the NFL level. A sixth-round draft pick by the Rams last year, Hodges was cut early in the season and then was signed on November 2 by the Eagles. He was released on November 22.

# Defensive tackle Darrell Lee was originally signed by the Eagles on August 18 and was released on August 27. He was then signed to the practice squad on October 26 and remained there all season. He has been assigned to NFL Europe.

# Strong safety Corey Peoples was part of the team's roster in training camp and played well through the spring. He was released on August 27. He has been assigned to NFL Europe.

# Strong safety Brandon Pinderhughes played with the Eagles in the spring and summer of 2004. He was released on August 30 of that year. He has been assigned to NFL Europe.

# Wide receiver Edward Simms is a 6-4, 230-pound wide receiver from William Penn College. He has been assigned to NFL Europe.

# Tight end Andy Thorn, a member of the practice squad all season, was signed. He is expected to challenge for a roster spot, as he did last year. Thorn was impressive in the preseason and lost out to Stephen Spach for a spot on the active roster.

In all, the Eagles have nine players allocated to NFL Europe. They will report to Florida to try out. If they make the team, they are then assigned to teams throughout the league.

Marshall played one game last season and made a big stop on the goal line in Dallas -- and then disappeared for the remainder of the season. He has a chance to get in game shape in NFL Europe and then make a run for a roster spot in 2006.

[proazn]

http://www.timmychang.net

With Dat Nguyen on the verge of retiring, Timmy Chang has to be the next asian representative in the NFL. If Chang doesn't make it to the NFL, there will be no asians(w/surnames) in the NFL... it would be a sad day in sports.

[grimfan]

There's a guy with a Japanese-sounding name on the KC Chiefs.

[lethal]

There's a guy with a Japanese-sounding name on the KC Chiefs.

Scott Fujita is actually adopted. He's a LB for the Cowboys now too. But he was adopted by a Japanese-American dad and a white mom. Scott is white.

Also, Kailee Wong is still a LB for the Houston Texans.

[haplesshobo]

http://www.timmychang.net

With Dat Nguyen on the verge of retiring, Timmy Chang has to be the next asian representative in the NFL. If Chang doesn't make it to the NFL, there will be no asians(w/surnames) in the NFL... it would be a sad day in sports.

How good is Chang really?

I know he has some NCAA records for a QB, but that doesn't necessairly mean that would translate to the NFL. You can check the records for other NCAA records in football, and I've never heard of some of those players.

If he was really that good, he would have been drafted at the very least.

I know some people want to blame sterotypes about asians as to why Chang didn't get a fair shot in the NFL. But, those sterotypes applied to Nguyen, and he still had a long and succesful career in the NFL.

[lethal]

How good is Chang really?

I know he has some NCAA records for a QB, but that doesn't necessairly mean that would translate to the NFL. You can check the records for other NCAA records in football, and I've never heard of some of those players.

We'll see if he can win a starting job in NFL Europe and play in a pro-style offense. If he can't do that, then he isn't good enough.

Lots of guys go undrafted and still have long NFL careers. If players are any good, they will be found, whether through the draft or other means.

[Keke]

We'll see if he can win a starting job in NFL Europe and play in a pro-style offense. If he can't do that, then he isn't good enough.

Lots of guys go undrafted and still have long NFL careers. If players are any good, they will be found, whether through the draft or other means.
Make no mistake about it, making an NFL roster as a QB is very, very tough! I've QB's that lit up NFL Europe, and still couldn't find a home in the NFL, even as a #3.

I really want him to make it... for himself, for asians, whatever....

[proazn]

I know some people want to blame sterotypes about asians as to why Chang didn't get a fair shot in the NFL. But, those sterotypes applied to Nguyen, and he still had a long and succesful career in the NFL.

Dat Nguyen was one of the best linebackers during his draft year. He was the Dick Butkus award winner as Top Linebacker. He should have been a 1st-round draft pick, but instead he was picked in the 3rd round. which meant he lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in salary. I still don't know why he was drafted so low for such accomplishments in college.... perhaps he was small? perhaps he was a small asian? perhaps no NFL scouts had seen an asian linebacker before and had these perceptions that asians can't play ball?

[lethal]

Dat Nguyen was one of the best linebackers during his draft year. He was the Dick Butkus award winner as Top Linebacker. He should have been a 1st-round draft pick, but instead he was picked in the 3rd round. which meant he lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in salary. I still don't know why he was drafted so low for such accomplishments in college.... perhaps he was small? perhaps he was a small asian? perhaps no NFL scouts had seen an asian linebacker before and had these perceptions that asians can't play ball?

Who was the last LB with his size coming out of college who got drafted in the 1st round?

5'11" 220 Lb Middle Linebackers are rare in the NFL draft.

NFL personnel people look at projectability, not necessarily college performance, when making draft selections.

[grimfan]

There are many college stud QBs that burn in the NFL: Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch come to mind. NCAA performance mcan mean very little when it comes to predicting NFL success.

[Dei Wong]

There are many college stud QBs that burn in the NFL: Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch come to mind. NCAA performance mcan mean very little when it comes to predicting NFL success.

Man you sure name good ones. Leaf I thought had great talent I would have put money that he be a good NFL QB. But he was a crying bitch and could not adjust to the pro game. Tim Couch just couldn't get any better he peaked in college. Believe it or not a lot of players peak in college. Some just need to go to a minor or lower league to sharpen their skills.

[proazn]

There are many college stud QBs that burn in the NFL: Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch come to mind. NCAA performance mcan mean very little when it comes to predicting NFL success.

Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch and Jim Druckenmiller and others were all drafted in the first round because NFL scouts thought they 'looked' like prototypical NFL quarterbacks... you know, the 6'4" guy who is also WHITE.

[Dei Wong]

Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch and Jim Druckenmiller and others were all drafted in the first round because NFL scouts thought they 'looked' like prototypical NFL quarterbacks... you know, the 6'4" guy who is also WHITE.

Do you really think the only reason Timmy Chang wasn't pick is because he is asian?

[proazn]

Do you really think the only reason Timmy Chang wasn't pick is because he is asian?

It didn't help that he was Asian-American. on the other hand, if he was a Chinese national, he would have been more marketable because all of China would be watching the NFL. But since he's just an Asian-AMERICAN, he's not so special. There is only about 12 million asians in the USA. But of course, if he was white, he wouldnt' be perceived as small, weak or fragile and would have gotten drafted.

[haplesshobo]

But of course, if he was white, he wouldnt' be perceived as small, weak or fragile and would have gotten drafted.

There are plenty of white QBs who don't get drafted every year for various reasons.

Jason White led his team to the National Championship game, won a Heisman, was a finalist for the Heisman another year, AP Player of the Year, All-American, Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year, won the Davey O'Brein Award, and Jim Thorpe award.

And, he didn't get drafted either even though he was pale white.

[proazn]

yeah, it was messed up Jason White didn't get drafted. But it was well documented that his knees were screwed up. Didn't see him at the NFL Combines... and he retired from football a few weeks into training camp. He pretty much gave up on his football career.

now, just look at the chart below and then justify a reason why Timmy Chang didn't get drafted.

http://68.121.172.186/timmychang/ncaapassingleaders.gif

[Dei Wong]

yeah, it was messed up Jason White didn't get drafted. But it was well documented that his knees were screwed up. Didn't see him at the NFL Combines... and he retired from football a few weeks into training camp. He pretty much gave up on his football career.

now, just look at the chart below and then justify a reason why Timmy Chang didn't get drafted.

http://68.121.172.186/timmychang/ncaapassingleaders.gif

Read any NFL Scouting Report and you will see why he was not drafted. In the league he is going to he can get some of the flaws out of his game. Wasn't he cut from two teams before he got this chance. If he was as good as you say that means he can help a team win. When you win you get more money no would throw that away because of someone's race. That would be crazy and they would look stupid when someone else picks that person up and starts winning.

[AznTrojan]

good god.. he's still pissed timmy chang didn't get drafted over other QBs who aren't even on an active NFL roster.. yet chang is still getting opportunities in the NFL.. get over it already..

[Dei Wong]

good god.. he's still pissed timmy chang didn't get drafted over other QBs who aren't even on an active NFL roster.. yet chang is still getting opportunities in the NFL.. get over it already..

Maybe he knows of a deeper reason? I'd like to hear it if he wants to shared it with us. Not to be funny but if you know something we don't tell us. I know sure would like to know.

[proazn]

I thought the chart explained everything.

AznTrojan, since your'e asian - you're never going to be an NFL QB.

[lethal]

I thought the chart explained everything.

Correlation does not show causation. He asked for causation and you demonstated correlation. Try again. He specifically asked if you had an insider knowledge of the sitaution, not for your personal speculation.

[Dei Wong]

Correlation does not show causation. He asked for causation and you demonstated correlation. Try again. He specifically asked if you had an insider knowledge of the sitaution, not for your personal speculation.

You know I think all he has is speculation. I doubt everyone in the NFL is stonewalling him. No one said that he was good he just needed to be tuned up a little. No one has denied his skill do you really think if he was as good as you say he wouldn't be drafted. Do you really think a team would miss out on a chance for a good player who can help them win. Therefore flushing millions down the toilet. For what I ask you who would be that crazy. Better yet who would be that stupid. No one said he is not going to make to the NFL I personally think he is. Why don't you try another angle and try and disprove what the scouts said and wrote about him. Its better than what you are doing now.

[AznTrojan]

fine by me... i already accomplished my career goal..

2 teams have already given chang opportunities.. does your small little mind not comprehend this???

what do you not understand about the draft.. getting drafted in the late rounds is worse than being undrafted.. jesus h christ.. getting drafted does not guarantee a contract..

I thought the chart explained everything.

AznTrojan, since your'e asian - you're never going to be an NFL QB.

[proazn]

I the words of Chang's agent, Don Yee, the guy who deals with NFL Scouts/GMs/etc.... and the words of Norman Chow.

-----------------------------------------------


According to Yee, there may be other reasons it looks as if Chang may not be selected until very late in the draft, if at all. "In my opinion, I don't think he's being fairly evaluated, because of the system he played in, his college coach's [June Jones] reputation for running that system, the fact that he played way out there in Hawaii, and maybe to some extent the fact that he's Asian," said Yee, who is also Asian. "I think people in their evaluation process of him are coming into it with so many preconceived notions and biases already that it makes it difficult for them to see through those things and fairly evaluate him.

"I think it's like anytime there's the first time for anything, or there's a new threshold to be crossed, people are going to wonder about the validity of this person's ability,'' added Yee. "People try to explain things away a little bit."

Yee makes it clear he is not suggesting NFL personnel evaluators have practiced any overt or intentional form of discrimination in assessing Chang's prospects. But as the league's only Asian-American agent, he can draw on his experience and the well-meaning perceptions he sometimes ran up against in becoming a pioneer in his field. "I do think [Chang's] ethnicity to some degree plays a part,'' Yee said. "But there's no malice intended. It's almost a subconscious perception problem. There is kind of a perception that people have of Asians. There are still stereotypes that well-intending people still buy into. When I got into this business, it took a couple years before I was able to not have to listen to any jokes any more about being Asian. It wasn't malice. It was more ignorance.''

One Asian stereotype concerns size...





"Oh, yeah, you have to overcome a lot of perceptions,'' Chow said this week. "I overcame a lot. The unfortunate part of athletics is that once you're labeled a certain way, it's tough to break that mold. It goes on in NFL, too. Somebody says something about them, and then everybody starts saying it. It becomes a part of reality.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/don_banks/04/15/chang/



now try to tell me race doesn't matter.

[AznTrojan]

proazn..

what's your fixation with chang and the draft?

2 teams have given chang a chance to prove himself..

btw.. nice way to take out the quotes that supports your theory that chang isn't getting a chance because of his race..

other qb's (klinger, rodgers, greene, smith) had similiar questions about regarding their play.. of course... chang being asian.. chang's agent he pulls out the race card..

and norm chow doesn't think race has anything to do with with the way chang was being evaluated... here's the rest of the quote you forgot to mention

"I hope that's not happening with Timmy. I hope it has nothing to do with how Tim's game is evaluated. I really don't think it is."

[proazn]

hmmm... AznTrojan, have you been doing your homework? klinger, rodgers, greene, smith ALL GOT DRAFTED!

"I hope that's not happening with Timmy. I hope it has nothing to do with how Tim's game is evaluated. I really don't think it is." says Chow.

Chow is 'hoping'. he's not an idiot. he's not going to straight up and say the NFL is racists/prejudice/sterotyping/whatever. if he does, he's going to get fired. just like anybody else.

While i'm looking out my asian brothers and promoting equal opportunities... you're looking to bring a brother down. it tells me you're not going to do anything meaningful in your life.

[Dei Wong]

hmmm... AznTrojan, have you been doing your homework? klinger, rodgers, greene, smith ALL GOT DRAFTED!

"I hope that's not happening with Timmy. I hope it has nothing to do with how Tim's game is evaluated. I really don't think it is." says Chow.

Chow is 'hoping'. he's not an idiot. he's not going to straight up and say the NFL is racists/prejudice/sterotyping/whatever. if he does, he's going to get fired. just like anybody else.

While i'm looking out my asian brothers and promoting equal opportunities... you're looking to bring a brother down. it tells me you're not going to do anything meaningful in your life.


You are fighting a losing battle. In this day and age in pro sports skill is what's important. Now amount of ignorance could over shadow his skill if he was as great as you say. You haven't answered my question who is willing to waste millions by not signing a player who can help them win. Like AznTrojan said two teams have given him a chance. Everyone in the NFL must be in on it.

[AznTrojan]

wow you're melodramatic..

you don't know anything about me to say i'm not doing anything meaningful in my life..

like i said.. 2 teams have given him a chance to play football.. get that through your thick head..

seriously.. you're bringing the collective asian iq down a couple points with your stupidity..

hmmm... AznTrojan, have you been doing your homework? klinger, rodgers, greene, smith ALL GOT DRAFTED!

"I hope that's not happening with Timmy. I hope it has nothing to do with how Tim's game is evaluated. I really don't think it is." says Chow.

Chow is 'hoping'. he's not an idiot. he's not going to straight up and say the NFL is racists/prejudice/sterotyping/whatever. if he does, he's going to get fired. just like anybody else.

While i'm looking out my asian brothers and promoting equal opportunities... you're looking to bring a brother down. it tells me you're not going to do anything meaningful in your life.

[proazn]

Chang was signed to a tryout with Arizona by the GM as a possible publicity ploy similiar to what the Phoenix Suns did with Yutah Tabuse a few months earlier. The Coach of the Cardinals, Dennis Green, had already made the decision to give the 3rd QB spot to the guy he drafted the year before, John Navarre. Had Green given the 3rd QB spot to Chang, he would have been ridiculed for drafting Navarre the year before. So before Chang was able to throw a single pass in a pre-season game, he was cut. He didn't get the opportunity to prove himself. Navarre subsequently went 0-for-6 in his first preseason game and then threw 3 interceptions in another preseason game in which he only played a quarter.

With every team already loaded with quarterbacks for the preseason, Chang wasn't signed again til the very last week of preseason with the Detroit Lions. By then, it was too late to learn the playbook and get aquainted with the players. After only 3 days with the Lion, Chang was cut due to the mandatory roster limit.

Chang never got an opportunity to show what he can do. Had he failed in the preseason games, I wouldn't be here fighting.

How would you like it if you went into a job interview for a high-ranking managerial position, but because you don't look like a prototypical manager, you're not hired?

When you get older, you'll know this happens occasionally.

[BeTheReds]

News flash. Chang is a hapa, and if he were not an athlete you wouldn't give a shit about him.

Why don't you go all up Hines Ward or Kailee Wong's ass like you do Timmy Chang's?

[Craig]

News flash. Chang is a hapa, and if he were not an athlete you wouldn't give a shit about him.C'mon BeTheReds, you're being too harsh; You know that's not true. Aside from being an athlete, many Asian Americans would also care about him if he was a movie star.

[BeTheReds]

Hahahaaha!

[proazn]

News flash. Chang is a hapa, and if he were not an athlete you wouldn't give a shit about him.


No duh, you're not an athlete and I don't give a crap about you.... so you're absolutely right.

[Dei Wong]

Chang was signed to a tryout with Arizona by the GM as a possible publicity ploy similiar to what the Phoenix Suns did with Yutah Tabuse a few months earlier. The Coach of the Cardinals, Dennis Green, had already made the decision to give the 3rd QB spot to the guy he drafted the year before, John Navarre. Had Green given the 3rd QB spot to Chang, he would have been ridiculed for drafting Navarre the year before. So before Chang was able to throw a single pass in a pre-season game, he was cut. He didn't get the opportunity to prove himself. Navarre subsequently went 0-for-6 in his first preseason game and then threw 3 interceptions in another preseason game in which he only played a quarter.

With every team already loaded with quarterbacks for the preseason, Chang wasn't signed again til the very last week of preseason with the Detroit Lions. By then, it was too late to learn the playbook and get aquainted with the players. After only 3 days with the Lion, Chang was cut due to the mandatory roster limit.

Chang never got an opportunity to show what he can do. Had he failed in the preseason games, I wouldn't be here fighting.

How would you like it if you went into a job interview for a high-ranking managerial position, but because you don't look like a prototypical manager, you're not hired?

When you get older, you'll know this happens occasionally.

Ok just to prove that not everyone is against Timmy read these analysis

POSITIVES: Diminutive quarterback who greatly benefited from the passing offense at Hawaii. Quickly finds the open wide out on the field, immediately releases the ball and displays a good sense of timing. Patient, buys as much time as possible and does not release the throw until the last second. Displays a nice feel for the position, knows where receivers are on the field and accurately places his throws. Puts the deep pass in front of receivers letting them run to the ball and hits targets in the intermediate field as they leave their breaks. Short throws possess good speed. Goes to the safe underneath route if nothing else is available.

NEGATIVES: Short arms his throwing motion. Takes most of his snaps out of the shotgun and releases the ball off his back foot. Tends to stare down the primary target. Does not throw tight spirals. Cannot drive the deep throw and has marginal long accuracy.

ANALYSIS: A passer that.s taken full advantage of the system he plays in, Chang possesses marginal upside for the next level. Does not have the arm strength or stature to play in the NFL, though he could be an asset as a practice squad passer.

PROJECTION: Undrafted Free Agent

By:SI.com

ANALYSIS

Chang is a lean, but athletic passer with a very quick release. He is at his best in the underneath passing game, but needs to do a better job of setting his feet. He operates mostly out of the shotgun and has inconsistent mechanics and rarely employs the same throwing motion. Chang has the ability to recognize coverages, but is a marginal progression reader who carries the ball too low when on the move and this effects his accuracy. When he sets his feet in the pocket, he throws a tight spiral with good velocity. But when he tries to throw on the rollout, his balls sail or skip to the receiver. … He has the speed and balance to avoid the pass rush and buy time and will step up in the pocket, but will get a little antsy and not let the routes finish before putting the ball away and running with it. He has adequate arm strength to throw deep, but routinely makes his receivers adjust downfield. Chang plays with poise, but will flush too early and spends too much time locking on to his primary target rather than scan the field. He has a quick flick to release the ball, but his delivery and touch are erratic. Too often, Chang will force the ball into traffic, as he rarely seems to check down. While his release is quick, he just seems to lack solid throwing techniques (will release from the hips too much). … Because he is under constant pressure, he does not spend much time reading the defenses and can be fooled by disguised coverages. When this happens, he tries to rely on his foot speed and will either roll out and throw the ball up for grabs or leave the pocket too early and try to run with the ball. Timmy has good timed speed and shows athleticism running with the ball. He does a good job of securing the ball before running from pressure, but shows marginal accuracy throwing on the move. … Maturity issues arose in the past and he has been benched several times for ineffective play. He is a decent worker, but lacks the leadership skills and seems to shy away from the spotlight. He does not have great command in the huddle, and while he can throw the ball deep, lacks accuracy and touch. He will elude pressure with his lateral slide, but does not square his shoulders consistently to throw on the run. His frame might not be strong enough to withstand punishment at the NFL level, but he has little room to add more bulk. … Operating out of the shotgun, it is difficult to see if he has the foot quickness to drive away from center to get to his set point. In limited chances to see him line up under center, he looks like he drifts in the pocket. He might be better suited playing north of the border in Canada or in the Arena League. Chang could stick as a backup in the NFL, but he would have to operate in a West Coast offense, so not to expose his accuracy problems with the deep ball.

by: Copyright NFLDraftScout.com


Timmy Chang came to the University of Hawaii after throwing 64 touchdown passes as a senior in high school, just one touchdown away from the national record. He has a great deal of experience as a starting quarterback in college, having started 53 games in the past five years and averaging 45 pass attempts per game. He tore a ligament in his wrist three games into the 2001 season and was awarded an additional year of eligibility. As a senior, Chang crushed Ty Detmer’s all-time NCAA career passing yardage record of 15,031 yards with his new mark of 17,072 yards. He lacks ideal size for an NFL quarterback and may need to bulk up some and increase his strength. He doesn’t have the strongest arm, but he has good timing and a very quick release. He is inconsistent when it comes to accuracy. He will be extremely accurate one week and extremely inaccurate the next week. He has a tendency to force the ball into coverage and he throws too many interceptions. He did improve in this area as a senior, throwing 13 interceptions after throwing 20 or more in each of the two previous seasons. He played in the spread offense at Hawaii where he operated primarily out of the shotgun. He will have to adjust to playing under center and learn to read the defense as he drops back. Timmy Chang had a great college career. His NFL potential may be limited due to lack of size, arm strength and his inconsistency. Someone will take a chance on him during the latter portion of day two.

By: On The Clock

Everyone is say the samething he is good but has some problems he needs to fix. NFL Europe will give him that chance. You must be a friend of his. Because you wouldn't look at the obvious.

[deez nuts]

No duh, you're not an athlete and I don't give a crap about you.... so you're absolutely right.

hahahahahaha nice.

[AznTrojan]

proazn..

if they "interview" you.. you're damn well good enough even though you're not a "prototypical" (insert job title here)..

btw.. i interviewed all over the country last year.. and i've never had a problem with racism.. mostly because i selected to interview in mainly blue states.. yes.. i chose where i wanted to interview..

the fact is.. timmy chang was given opportunities.. and he couldn't beat out his competition.. that's the reason why he was cut..

like you said.. every team was loaded at the QB position.. and he didn't beat anyone out....

[BeTheReds]

No duh, you're not an athlete and I don't give a crap about you.... so you're absolutely right.


That's fine only if you feel the same way about full blooded Asians too.

Anyway my point is this. And I can't believe I am actually arguing for hapa recognition here, but whatever.

Full blooded-Asians shun hapas and exclude them in daily life, but the minute one becomes famous... they are all inclusive, and proud to be associated with that one.

I know you were joking about what you quoted, so I do have a sense of humor, but the sad fact is that discrimination exists from within our community, and we should do something to eradicate it.

[deez nuts]

us full blooded asian men love the hapa women. <3

[BeTheReds]

lolz. Way to take people seriously. Actually if you're trying to get under my skin, that's not working, cuz I don't care if you digs the hapa women. I digs the full blooded women. U can have all the hapas you want.

[haplesshobo]

News flash. Chang is a hapa, and if he were not an athlete you wouldn't give a shit about him.

Why don't you go all up Hines Ward or Kailee Wong's ass like you do Timmy Chang's?

Hey, don't forget Will Demp, safety for the Baltimore Ravens.

Of course, I would have never heard the guy if he hadn't been on MTV's Cribs, where he was really proud of his korean heritage and was showing his kim chi, korean artifacts, etc..

[deez nuts]

lolz. Way to take people seriously. Actually if you're trying to get under my skin, that's not working, cuz I don't care if you digs the hapa women. I digs the full blooded women. U can have all the hapas you want.

nah i just found your whole rant about full blooded asians shunning hapas unless they're famous quite amusing hence my statement that is all.

[BeTheReds]

nah i just found your whole rant about full blooded asians shunning hapas unless they're famous quite amusing hence my statement that is all.
Why is that amusing? You laugh and pretend like there's not any problem. I'd say, how is that any different from a White person not percieving racism torwards Asians, and laughing it away with colorful humor packed T-shirts?

There is a problem in our community, and whether you care to take it seriously or not is up to you, but I'd appreciate it if you at least recognize the problem.

Hey, don't forget Will Demp, safety for the Baltimore Ravens.

Of course, I would have never heard the guy if he hadn't been on MTV's Cribs, where he was really proud of his korean heritage and was showing his kim chi, korean artifacts, etc..

Oh, but here's the thing, all 3 of these athletes are BLACK! We as a community can't acknowledge or celebrate their NFL athlete status! Besides, 2 of them don't even have Asian names!

Instead we are going to complain about racism because a mediocre quarterback went undrafted.

Timmy Chang is half WHITE! That's better and way more representative of us than Hines Ward being in the Super Bowl is. Plus he has an Asian last name. He's a Bruce Linda so that makes him WAAAAY better.


/sarcasm

[deez nuts]

Why is that amusing? You laugh and pretend like there's not any problem. I'd say, how is that any different from a White person not percieving racism torwards Asians, and laughing it away with colorful humor packed T-shirts?

There is a problem in our community, and whether you care to take it seriously or not is up to you, but I'd appreciate it if you at least recognize the problem.


it's just the way you jumped into it. relax.

[BeTheReds]

it's just the way you jumped into it. relax.


But that's the thing... I don't see why anyone gives a shit about Timmy Chang, and NOT Hines Ward or Kailee Wong or Will Demps. I've seen a million Timmy Chang threads in the past 2 years. (Ok, maybe 5 or 6)

And here we are, on the verge of having our first Asian super-bowl champion, and NOTHING... You can hear the crickets chirp about Hines Ward.

Why? Is it because Timmy Chang is an unproven QB and Hines Ward is a proven WR.... wait.. that doesn't make sense.

What is all the fuss about Timmy Chang?




I'm still not one to like players because of their race, but some people are, and it's obvious that Timmy Chang fans like him because of his race. Why are those people not so vocal about the Asians ALREADY IN the NFL?

[deez nuts]

you rejected my offer of hines ward plus some other dude for your chad johnson this last fantasy football season.

yes i did try to play the korean card on you on that one.

[BeTheReds]

Oh, well that's because I don't care about a player's race when determining if I like that player or not.

And in fantasy football, I look at numbers only. Sorry to say, Ward doesn't have numbers. Great player though!

[lethal]

I'd say part of the reason Chang may have more attention than some other players is that he's a QB, the most visible position on a football team.

[BeTheReds]

True.. but other positions can also be elevated to superstar status, while some QBs get no recognition at all.

Will Chang's role as a backup QB in the NFL make him any more visable than Dat Nguyen?

[proazn]

Timmy Chang is half WHITE! That's better and way more representative of us than Hines Ward being in the Super Bowl is. Plus he has an Asian last name.



I've met Timmy Chang's parents. His dad is obviously asian, and his mom looks closer to hawaiian/asian than she does white. But that's besides the point. Chang has said he's proud to be asian. he's feels honored to represent. he has alot of pride. That earns my respect.
click of Chang saying how he's proud to be chinese (http://68.121.172.186/timmychang/vids/tchang.wmv)

There are asians/hapas out there who are sellouts and feel ashamed of being asian. you'll never hear me talk about them.

The Quarterback position is the most prestigious position of all American sports. A QB can sometimes represent a whole city. The most famous person of a city is often times the quarterback. Who's the most famous person from Miami? Dan Marino. Green Bay? Brett Farve. Philadephia? McNabb. Indy? Manning. The linebacker position and WR positions don't get as much attention.

[BeTheReds]

The Quarterback position is the most prestigious position of all American sports. A QB can sometimes represent a whole city. The most famous person of a city is often times the quarterback. Who's the most famous person from Miami? Dan Marino. Green Bay? Brett Farve. Philadephia? McNabb. Indy? Manning. The linebacker position and WR positions don't get as much attention.

I disagree there. Superstars can come from every position, even head coach.

Miami? Don Shula. Green Bay? Vince Lombardi Philly? T.O. stole the spotlight from McNabb. Indy? How about, Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, Bubba Smith....

Washington? Certainly not Brunell.

Was OJ Simpson a QB? Was Larry Czonka? Lynn Swann? Bruce Smith? Ray Lewis? Chad Johnson? Priest Holmes? Ladanian Tomlinson? Clinton Portis?

Yea, superstar QBs are there, but for every superstar QB there are 10 also rans that nobody has ever heard of when they are done playing.

If Timmy Chang is good enough to fit in with the likes of Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Dan Marino, and Troy Aikman, then shit, yea, count me in and convince him to play in Washington.

He's not Joe Montana... hell, he's not even Gus Frerotte.

Oh, and your stats... for yardage and touchdowns.. please consider that Hawaii has a huge home field advantage when playing teams from the mainland, and plays more schools of lesser competition (in Hawaii) than do QBs in other conferences in the NCAA. While he might have impressive numbers, they should be adjusted just a little bit.

Teams pick people who can play. If they felt Timmy could play, they'd look through his race and draft the player.

[proazn]

BeTheReds, just answer one simple question for me, why were there no black QBs in the 1950,60s,70s(and only 1-2 blacks in the 80s,90s) and now all-of-a-sudden there are many black QBs?

[BeTheReds]

BeTheReds, just answer one simple question for me, why were there no black QBs in the 1950,60s,70s(and only 1-2 blacks in the 80s,90s) and now all-of-a-sudden there are many black QBs?


That time has past. Now that Blacks have broken that barrier it is open to everyone. If Chang can play, he'll get his shot. If he lights it up in Europe we'll see him soon enough.

[haplesshobo]

Chang has said he's proud to be asian. he's feels honored to represent. he has alot of pride. That earns my respect.


And, Will Demp also seems to be proud of his korean heritage where he was showing it off on MTV's Cribs. Demp was showing the kim chi in the kitchen, the shrimp flavored crackers, etc.. But, where's the love for him?

[Dei Wong]

And, Will Demp also seems to be proud of his korean heritage where he was showing it off on MTV's Cribs. Demp was showing the kim chi in the kitchen, the shrimp flavored crackers, etc.. But, where's the love for him?

He knows the guy personally which blinds him to the obvious.

[Arex]

And, Will Demp also seems to be proud of his korean heritage where he was showing it off on MTV's Cribs. Demp was showing the kim chi in the kitchen, the shrimp flavored crackers, etc.. But, where's the love for him?Don't know too much about the players (or the NFL, for that matter), but I would say that despite Will Demps' Asian "pride," he doesn't look obviously Asian. Although he looks mixed, most people, including the decision makers in the NFL, probably think he's black and therefore treat him as such. Because race profiling/discrimination is typically based on outward appearance, Proazn's arguments/complaints would not apply to him.

Obviously, if you're going to support players based on their being Asian, it's not fair to not rally in support of mixed Asians, just because they don't look obviously Asian. On the other hand, if you're complaining that people's prejudice (subconscious or otherwise) resulted in unequal treatment, then I think it does kind of make sense to look only at those who are perceived as (i.e., look) Asian.

If we were talking about the movie industry, it would be kind of silly to use Keanu Reeves and Rob Schneider as examples to argue against the prevailing wisdom that Asian American males lack adequate representation in Hollywood. Of course, the NFL is presumably more concerned about performance than appearance/marketability, but that doesn't mean that a person's appearance can't color people's perception of their performance.

This, of course, ignores the success of the "obvious" Asian, Dat Nguyen. But then, as Lethal pointed out, he (or any of the other Asians in the NFL) isn't a QB.

That time has past. Now that Blacks have broken that barrier it is open to everyone. If Chang can play, he'll get his shot. If he lights it up in Europe we'll see him soon enough.While you're probably (hopefully) right that, if he demonstrates he can play, he'll get his shot, I think it's pretty idealistic to believe that just because Blacks have already broken that barrier, it's wide open to anyone and everyone to the same degree. There are racist and sexist elements ingrained into almost every aspect of society. It's silly to think that the NFL is necessarily above all that. Of course, it's equally silly to presume that racism is necessarily the cause of Timmy Chang's problems.

[BeTheReds]

While you're probably (hopefully) right that, if he demonstrates he can play, he'll get his shot, I think it's pretty idealistic to believe that just because Blacks have already broken that barrier, it's wide open to anyone and everyone to the same degree. There are racist and sexist elements ingrained into almost every aspect of society. It's silly to think that the NFL is necessarily above all that. Of course, it's equally silly to presume that racism is necessarily the cause of Timmy Chang's problems.


I'm just saying, do you think it'd be harder for Chang then or now? Obviously there are going to be those that still won't think he can do it because of his race, but I seriously think that if he can play, he's in.

We have Asians tearing it up in baseball, basketball, golf, tennis, racing, soccer, volleyball, cricket, ice hockey, and rugby. All of them have probably gone through some kind of discrimination as a stumbling block along the way to making it. The bottom line is, that they could play.

Also take into account that Football is an American sport with little publicity outside the US. Asians, making up less than 3% of the US population, and mostly immigrants, are not a large pool to draw potential athletes from. Be proud that Chang got as far as he did. Anything else is just gravy.

[lethal]

Timmy Chang to the Rhein Fire, where he will compete for the starting job with Drew Henson.

[snailpoo]

I'm just saying, do you think it'd be harder for Chang then or now? Obviously there are going to be those that still won't think he can do it because of his race, but I seriously think that if he can play, he's in.



Yeah, especially if you factor in the money involved and the high turnover rates for the people managing and coaching the NFL. I don't care how racist a coach, a scout, or a general manager might be. They'll happily swallow their racism if it leads to a better record and better job security.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I can't believe I just read through this entire thread. Like...omg...it's football. Who cares.




jp

[fresh22]

I like it how we all salivate at the potential of one 'not a sure thing by a long shot' male Asian athlete trying to break through the most popular sport in the U.S. and represent us.

I'm fine with talented Asian males representing us in things other than sports.

[proazn]

Football is the most watched sport in America. The upcoming Super Bowl will prove it. It's a part of American culture. When people watch this year's superbowl, they will not see any asian players. (eventhough H.Ward is 1/2 asian, most people will not know this because the name on his jersey is not asian). When American people do not see any asians in football, the stereotype that asians are too small and too weak to play football at the highest level will be justified. And this perception will hurt the chances of other asians who wish to make football as a career. Those of you who do not understand this, will understand when you play pick-up football with strangers. If you're asian, there's a good chance you'll be one of the last ones picked.

Football is a white and black sport. Asians don't belong.... yet. It took decades for blacks to be recognized as being able to play the quarterback position. I'm afraid it will take more decades for an asian quarterback to be considered the same. It should be our job to shorten that time frame.

[Dei Wong]

Football is the most watched sport in America. The upcoming Super Bowl will prove it. It's a part of American culture. When people watch this year's superbowl, they will not see any asian players. (eventhough H.Ward is 1/2 asian, most people will not know this because the name on his jersey is not asian). When American people do not see any asians in football, the stereotype that asians are too small and too weak to play football at the highest level will be justified. And this perception will hurt the chances of other asians who wish to make football as a career. Those of you who do not understand this, will understand when you play pick-up football with strangers. If you're asian, there's a good chance you'll be one of the last ones picked.

Football is a white and black sport. Asians don't belong.... yet. It took decades for blacks to be recognized as being able to play the quarterback position. I'm afraid it will take more decades for an asian quarterback to be considered the same. It should be our job to shorten that time frame.

Dude I see your point but don't you think your going a little too far. You have have took Timmy not making it to the NFL and turned it into something more, Asians don't belong? Why should Asians stop playing football? Many young Asians kids want to or are chasing the dream to play in the NFL who are you to piss on their dreams. Plus if this wild notion of your happens to be true that coaches and owns are willing to lose millions and winning game by not signing a player who can help them win because of his race. Well while hell thawing out why would you want people to roll over and accept that shit.

[proazn]

Timmy Chang played his first game in NFLEurope yesterday and outperformed Drew Henson. did anybody noticed?

[soulman386]

True.. but other positions can also be elevated to superstar status, while some QBs get no recognition at all.

Will Chang's role as a backup QB in the NFL make him any more visable than Dat Nguyen?


Jeff Garcia only signed a one year contract. If Chang beats out Koy Detmer for the 3rd QB spot he could be McNabb's backup the following year. If McNabb gets hurt Chang will be in the spotlight.

[proazn]

Most asians won't care if Chang becomes a backup. Asians are bandwagoner fans... They will cheer only for good players because it makes them feel more Americanized. Sure, there are some asians who will support asian athletes... but most asians only care about football because they gamble on the games.

Clips of Chang from NFLEurope:
http://www.timmychang.net

[soulman386]

Tim Chang took one step toward making the Eagles roster. He beat out Matt Nordgren in the rookie/selected veterans camp. Nordgren was released. The beat reporter for the Eagles said that he threw the ball much better than Nordgren even though Nordgren is bigger and has a stronger arm. Chang will be in training camp with an opportunity to beat out Koy Detmer for the 3rd QB position. Jeff Garcia signed only a one year contract so if Chang makes the team he could be Donovan McNabb's backup the following season.

[MikeySan]

Remember CHANG from Univ of Hawaii?

He is an azn quarterback for them. He was know and will not be forgotten when he rocked out BYU in a game.

So anyways, he was a rookie last year. Two NFL teams canned him.

He now has a spot w/ the Philadelphia Eagles. Yep he is 3rd string, but looked pretty good this he over threw the ball to the left side wide receiver in the last 21 seconds of the game of the 4th quarter. Love to see him start.

Either way I just want to pass some props.

[proazn]

Timmy Chang is playing in the NFL for the Philadephia Eagles. Anybody noticed?

[soulman386]

Chang will most likely be put on the Eagles' practice squad now that they've signed AJ Feeley. But next year he'll be the best candidate to be the third QB.

[proazn]

Timmy Chang will be playing tomorrow for Hamilton Tigercat's (pro league in Canada) preseason game.

[MikeySan]

Not sure, but is Chang still even with the Eagles?

[proazn]

Not sure, but is Chang still even with the Eagles?

Dude, he's playing in the Canadian Football League... the Eagles are in the National Football League.

Chang just played his first preseason game and in just one quarter, passed for 239 yards on 10-17 passing with 2 touchdowns. The asian guy lit it up.

[proazn]

Dude, he's playing in the Canadian Football League... the Eagles are in the National Football League.

Chang just played his first preseason game and in just one quarter, passed for 239 yards on 10-17 passing with 2 touchdowns. The asian guy lit it up.

reposted. can't have Rocball as the #1 thread in the sports section.

[Faithless]

Timmy Chang will be playing tomorrow for Hamilton Tigercat's (pro league in Canada) preseason game.
People still keepin' track of him. :cool:

He's fighting for a third string position. He did well in some (exhibition?) game, going 10-17 for 200+ yards and two TD's in just a half of play. (Oh, you said that.)

At last check, they appear to be keeping him (http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/sports/story.html?id=464aa99f-3cbe-4e1b-9c32-5fa4271d9a62), as they let go a competitor named Shaun King.

[proazn]

People still keepin' track of him. :cool:

He's fighting for a third string position. He did well in some (exhibition?) game, going 10-17 for 200+ yards and two TD's in just a half of play. (Oh, you said that.)

At last check, they appear to be keeping him (http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/sports/story.html?id=464aa99f-3cbe-4e1b-9c32-5fa4271d9a62), as they let go a competitor named Shaun King.

After his preseason performances, he's not fighting for 3rd string anymore... depending on how the team's incumbent starter starts out the season, Chang can be a starter by end of the season and a star of the CFL in a couple of years.

[proazn]

If anybody here still care about the only asian in pro football, CFL rookie Timmy Chang will be making his first start at QB in Hamilton on Labor Day.
it'll be on dish/directv and all over Hawaii.

http://www.TimmyChang.net/latestnews.asp?date=0807

[proazn]

http://www.thespec.com/Sports/Local%20Sports/article/241928

Chang has to take control
TheSpec.com - Local Sports - Chang has to take control
New No. 1 quarterback 'has to make sure he's out front as the leader'

Steve Milton
The Hamilton Spectator

(Aug 31, 2007)
The changes in Timmy Chang's circumstances aren't limited to the field of play.

"In the No. 2 position you don't open your mouth," Chang said yesterday, just before his first practice as the Ticats' starting pivot. "You're watching. You observe the team. And that's what I was doing.

"Obviously, when you step into the starting quarterback position, it's a different mind set."

Not only is it different, you have to demonstrate that difference. To the organization, to the fans but, most of all, to your teammates.

When Charlie Taaffe named Chang as his starter over Jason Maas, for not only the must-win Labour Day game at Ivor Wynne but also the foreseeable