generalizations

[kasia]

i read mrazntre's topic about 'white chix'...and here are my two cents.

he thinks white girls are nasty. it was his opinion. a generalization sure. but racist? not necessarily.

lfo thinks that chinese food is sickening. many whites think that asians are weird. those are just opinions. so i have been told all my life.

furthermore, imagine if mrzantre had said, "white girls are beautiful," i'm sure white males would not have gotten on his case for [i:df5094965a]objectifying[/i:df5094965a] white women. for, after all, those are the types of statements that many white males have made about asian women in the past. In defense of asiaphilism, many have claimed that such statements are acceptable. because they are just opinions. now how are such statements, which these asiaphiles vehemently maintain are just innocent opinions, so drastically different from mrazntre's comment that white girl's are nasty? are they not both opinions? and do they not both generalize?

please clarify. and if i'm correct, please get of mrazntre's case.

[ImrkevinpakI]

They're just his way of labeling people...

But..no comment.

[DaBestSpooner]

GIRLS ARE BEAUTIFUL PERIOD

[mrazntre]

i think Latina girls are hooooot.


(am i still a racist?)

[kasia]

[quote:adbe91cb9c="mrazntre"]i think Latina girls are hooooot.


(am i still a racist?)[/quote:adbe91cb9c]

ignorant. but not necessarily racist.

[NotAsian]

You have an interesting and largely valid point Kasia, but let's not forget the importance of implications. you can say the same thing in different ways, and the true meaning of it will change radically because of the implications of what you are saying and what it connotes about your emotional motivation.

For example if you said (say) "I'm not really attracted to Black girls", and if someone else said something like "blak chicks r uglee as (capitalised swear word)" then who's being offensive? Who's [i:96df7438ee]not[/i:96df7438ee] being offensive?

[kasia]

[quote:28dd009581="NotAsian"]You have an interesting and largely valid point Kasia, but let's not forget the importance of implications. you can say the same thing in different ways, and the true meaning of it will change radically because of the implications of what you are saying and what it connotes about your emotional motivation.

For example if you said (say) "I'm not really attracted to Black girls", and if someone else said something like "blak chicks r uglee as (capitalised swear word)" then who's being offensive? Who's [i:28dd009581]not[/i:28dd009581] being offensive?[/quote:28dd009581]

offensive, yes. but i thought racism was the issue.

[thaite]

I like redheads.

Now, whom have I objectified. It is racist or otherwise discriminatory?

[ChinaLama]

I agree with NotAsian. It depends on context. We will ALWAYS make generalizations, but it's only when we really hold to them in a systematic manner that it's really influenced by prejudice. I mean if I say "Asian girls are hotter than white girls," i don't think I'm necessarily saying if you line up all Asian girls next to all white girls, person for person, an Asian girl will be hotter than a white girl. I think it means, among all the people I've seen, I've been more attracted to Asian girls than white girls. But to save some space in words, maybe I won't say all of that but I'll make a generalization instead.

I mean almost EVERYONE thinks "lawyers are sleazy" but if we really believed that, then none of us would ever have legal counsel for fear of being ripped off.

[kasia]

[quote:cfe859fdc5="ChinaLama"]I agree with NotAsian. It depends on context. We will ALWAYS make generalizations, but it's only when we really hold to them in a systematic manner that it's really influenced by prejudice. I mean if I say "Asian girls are hotter than white girls," i don't think I'm necessarily saying if you line up all Asian girls next to all white girls, person for person, an Asian girl will be hotter than a white girl. I think it means, among all the people I've seen, I've been more attracted to Asian girls than white girls. But to save some space in words, maybe I won't say all of that but I'll make a generalization instead.

I mean almost EVERYONE thinks "lawyers are sleazy" but if we really believed that, then none of us would ever have legal counsel for fear of being ripped off.[/quote:cfe859fdc5]

that was hardly notasian's point. his point in bringing up context was to distinguish the way in which the sentiment was expressed, not whether the sentiment was held in a systematic manner.

but let me ask you this--which generalizations are not held in a systematic manner? if they aren't, how could they constitute generalizations?

here's a breakdown of the basic debate:
mrazntre makes a statement about white chix.
notasian finds it to be racist, comments on it, and an argument ensues.
i stated that his statement is [i:cfe859fdc5]no more racist[/i:cfe859fdc5] than notasians past
statements, albeit much less offensive, about asian girls.

that is how i would phrase the debate and that is how i've always viewed the issue. a statement that all blacks are criminal is no more racist than a statement that all asians are good at math. it doesn't matter if one is more offensive than the other. both are built on generalizations and both can have very harmful consequences.

and there was nothing in my previous arguments that implied that i believed that holding generalizations is inherently wrong--which is what your post seems to address. rather, i was only drawing the analogy between the generalizations made by mrazntre and those made by notasian in the past.

in my honest opinion, though--and i'm only beginning to state that now--i think statements made by both individuals were racist and ignorant. i just didn't think it was right for notasian to call mrazntre a "rampant racist" for making generalizations about white girls when he himself made generalizations about asian girls in the past.

[ChinaLama]

Hmm, I don't recall ALL the things NotAsian's said about Asian girls, but I don't see him as a racist. perhaps he was generalizing, but he was saving words and not the idea; i.e, if he said "all asian girls are beautiful," maybe he meant "all asian girls i know are pretty attractive" but didn't feel like saying out the "i know" part.

[mrazntre]

so....

can someone tell me, in what context did i say, "white chix are nasty?"

if you guess right, i'll give you a girl scout cookie.


chinalama: in that case, does what you say also apply to me? or does it not because i'm a rampant racist?

[ChinaLama]

hmm well once i read your context, about your EXPERIENCES with white women, I don't think you're necessarily a rampant racist either.

But you are a gook.

so there ya go, I'M the rampant racist. Don't even THINK of claiming that as your own!

[mrazntre]

d00d you're a chink ass hater!!!

i was labeled a rampant racist. you can't just up and self-nominate yourself! it's my label and imma keep it

[ChinaLama]

fine fine, you can CALL yourself a rampant racist all you want, but when it comes to actual racist rampancy, i think i 0wnz j00.

[NotAsian]

[quote:f9d027cf50="kasia"]
mrazntre makes a statement about white chix.
notasian finds it to be racist, comments on it, and an argument ensues.
i stated that his statement is [i:f9d027cf50]no more racist[/i:f9d027cf50] than notasians past
statements, albeit much less offensive, about asian girls.
[/quote:f9d027cf50]

Erm, what have I [i:f9d027cf50]ever[/i:f9d027cf50] said about Asian girls that was offensive?

[kasia]

[quote:32d2f3e7fa="NotAsian"][quote:32d2f3e7fa="kasia"]
mrazntre makes a statement about white chix.
notasian finds it to be racist, comments on it, and an argument ensues.
i stated that his statement is [i:32d2f3e7fa]no more racist[/i:32d2f3e7fa] than notasians past
statements, albeit much less offensive, about asian girls.
[/quote:32d2f3e7fa]

Erm, what have I [i:32d2f3e7fa]ever[/i:32d2f3e7fa] said about Asian girls that was offensive?[/quote:32d2f3e7fa]

was it just me or did a lot of your past statements describe and attempt to justify your preference for asian girls?

[NotAsian]

[quote:dd5c2d5ea9="kasia"][quote:dd5c2d5ea9="NotAsian"]
Erm, what have I [i:dd5c2d5ea9]ever[/i:dd5c2d5ea9] said about Asian girls that was offensive?[/quote:dd5c2d5ea9]
was it just me or did a lot of your past statements describe and attempt to justify your preference for asian girls?[/quote:dd5c2d5ea9]

Try to justify? Hell no. There [i:dd5c2d5ea9]is[/i:dd5c2d5ea9] no justification, there is no reason. I have made no decisions, merely what I have been given in life with no explanation and no chance of change.

If you're going to say I'm offensive just because of something that I am lumped with for the rest of my life beyond my control, then I might as well just shoot myself.

[kasia]

[quote:2b91f716c2="NotAsian"][quote:2b91f716c2="kasia"][quote:2b91f716c2="NotAsian"]
Erm, what have I [i:2b91f716c2]ever[/i:2b91f716c2] said about Asian girls that was offensive?[/quote:2b91f716c2]
was it just me or did a lot of your past statements describe and attempt to justify your preference for asian girls?[/quote:2b91f716c2]

Try to justify? Hell no. There [i:2b91f716c2]is[/i:2b91f716c2] no justification, there is no reason. I have made no decisions, merely what I have been given in life with no explanation and no chance of change.

If you're going to say I'm offensive just because of something that I am lumped with for the rest of my life beyond my control, then I might as well just shoot myself.[/quote:2b91f716c2]

that's one way to look at it. and if that is the case, what factors drive me to find you offensive? and are they within my control?

[NotAsian]

[quote:c1682c2ca7="kasia"][quote:c1682c2ca7="NotAsian"]If you're going to say I'm offensive just because of something that I am lumped with for the rest of my life beyond my control, then I might as well just shoot myself.[/quote:c1682c2ca7]

that's one way to look at it. and if that is the case, what factors drive me to find you offensive?[/quote:c1682c2ca7]

[i:c1682c2ca7]You[/i:c1682c2ca7] tell [i:c1682c2ca7]me[/i:c1682c2ca7].

[quote:c1682c2ca7]and are they within my control?[/quote:c1682c2ca7]

Supposing they aren't - in that case do you really [i:c1682c2ca7]think[/i:c1682c2ca7] I'm offensive? The very fact that you said I was offensive in the first place proves that either you didn't think about it at all or that you thought, [i:c1682c2ca7]thought[/i:c1682c2ca7], that I was offensive.

Now I doubt a lot that you didn't think about it at all, that means that, for some reason or another, you thought about it and came to the conclusion that I was offensive.

So please, tell me why.

[kasia]

[quote:4b77caa5d5="NotAsian"][quote:4b77caa5d5="kasia"][quote:4b77caa5d5="NotAsian"]If you're going to say I'm offensive just because of something that I am lumped with for the rest of my life beyond my control, then I might as well just shoot myself.[/quote:4b77caa5d5]

that's one way to look at it. and if that is the case, what factors drive me to find you offensive?[/quote:4b77caa5d5]

[i:4b77caa5d5]You[/i:4b77caa5d5] tell [i:4b77caa5d5]me[/i:4b77caa5d5].

[quote:4b77caa5d5]and are they within my control?[/quote:4b77caa5d5]

Supposing they aren't - in that case do you really [i:4b77caa5d5]think[/i:4b77caa5d5] I'm offensive? The very fact that you said I was offensive in the first place proves that either you didn't think about it at all or that you thought, [i:4b77caa5d5]thought[/i:4b77caa5d5], that I was offensive.

Now I doubt a lot that you didn't think about it at all, that means that, for some reason or another, you thought about it and came to the conclusion that I was offensive.

So please, tell me why.[/quote:4b77caa5d5]

i believe fully in agency. that's why. and i've been thinking about that for years.