Bitterness is setting in...

[angel nympho]

Can somebody help a girl out, here? I think most of you guys realize that I am not a racist person and I'm always interested to hear what other people have to say. It gives me something to think about. But I feel like the more I hear from the more angry, irate Asian activist types, the more inclined I am to stereotype such Asians... and the more inclined I am to defend white ideas. WTF is WRONG with me?!? There are times I really wish I never heard some of the things I hear on this website... because life used to be so much easier before I saw a *race side* to every issue....

[kimpossible]

To be fair to them, these topics are usually kept inside the Rant Room. They get to rant. Seems like a fair system.

[ChinaLama]

i dont think there's anything wrong w/ you. cuz a lot of times, angry activists are...well angry. :) and the anger kind of spreads. :)

[deez nuts]

You are who you are, but it doesn't hurt to see both sides of every coin.

[SunWuKong]

just wanting to make things better for asian people in this country. each minority group has to fight its own fight. but i do get annoyed at all this wm/af talk.

[VV o n g B a]

while i tend to disagree with you on most civil rights related topics, the fact is that a person like u is needed. see, i used to be like you and defended the "white person's" perspective. but the more i read about the issues, the more pissed off i got.

what tends to be forgotten however is that sometimes you can only take things so seriously. not everything that goes on in the media is worth our time and effort to get mad at. its good just to get a different perspective... even one that i disagree with because it keeps this place from getting a monolithic "all whities are evil" aspect.

i'm not implying that u don't have an understanding of the issues. its just that once i got a better understanding, i began to change my viewpoint. maybe u understand things better than i do and have just chosen not to get mad. hey, no problem with that. some people just tend not to get mad... it also serves as a point of contention making people have to better justify their reasons for getting mad.

[wylin]

ur my angel, angel...=)

[angel nympho]

I think the basis of my ideas stems from the fact that, at least from my own observation, race is only an issue if you make it one. Often, the fact that a minority is involved in a situation, it opens it up for scrutinization and judgement. And it just seems to me that I get more judgement from people of my own race than from people of others. In fact, it doesn't SEEM that way. It IS that way. So, what might seem like real issues to some of you just seems nitpicky and annoying to me. =T Hope that didn't offend anybody, but I'm just sayin' it like it is. It bothers me because race is something that is a human invention. And it shouldn't matter anymore. The more we stress its importance, the less equality we're promoting.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Nov 8 2002, 11:11 PM
while i tend to disagree with you on most civil rights related topics, the fact is that a person like u is needed. see, i used to be like you and defended the "white person's" perspective. but the more i read about the issues, the more pissed off i got.

what tends to be forgotten however is that sometimes you can only take things so seriously. not everything that goes on in the media is worth our time and effort to get mad at. its good just to get a different perspective... even one that i disagree with because it keeps this place from getting a monolithic "all whities are evil" aspect.

i'm not implying that u don't have an understanding of the issues. its just that once i got a better understanding, i began to change my viewpoint. maybe u understand things better than i do and have just chosen not to get mad. hey, no problem with that. some people just tend not to get mad... it also serves as a point of contention making people have to better justify their reasons for getting mad.
My first real taste of a site of mostly asians was a.ave.

There i learned that a lot of the problems that affect me actully affect other asians too.
I used to excuse some of these behaviours as normal. It is not normal. Now i harbor more hateful attitudes towards people for all the years of b.s. that i don't really feel i deserved in the past.

It's not the same anymore as when i was an adolescent. So many things filter down.

Even though i have learned hateful things which have saddened me I have learned to stand up and fight more for my rights as an individual and not a stereotype. I have learned that i am not powerless because others feel just like me.

I don't hate white people. I defend some of their ideas too. But who's to say and idea that may be created by a white man is owned by him.

Sometimes i wish i never came on these discussion boards because of some of the stuff i've heard too. Some of it hits pretty deep but it is interesting at times and cures boredom.

I just poiint out the flaws that anger me such as racial profiling, discrimination and blah.

The list of shit is endless.


:lol:

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 8 2002, 06:51 PM
I think the basis of my ideas stems from the fact that, at least from my own observation, race is only an issue if you make it one. Often, the fact that a minority is involved in a situation, it opens it up for scrutinization and judgement. And it just seems to me that I get more judgement from people of my own race than from people of others. In fact, it doesn't SEEM that way. It IS that way. So, what might seem like real issues to some of you just seems nitpicky and annoying to me. =T Hope that didn't offend anybody, but I'm just sayin' it like it is. It bothers me because race is something that is a human invention. And it shouldn't matter anymore. The more we stress its importance, the less equality we're promoting.
I respect that. I tell it how it is, too. Like I said before, you and I, sometimes we see eye to eye, but sometimes we don't. It might get belligerent between us, but so long as we respect one anothers personal boundaries, we'll be alright. Just call it a friendly and sometimes heated debate.

When it's all said and done. We say it's all good, call it a day and go back to our daily real life grind.

[digiaks]

It bothers me because race is something that is a human invention. And it shouldn't matter anymore. The more we stress its importance, the less equality we're promoting.

It is so true that the world would be a better place if we lived in a color blind society. Problem is that this racism is everywhere and effects every race.

[UnitedChris81]

I don't think anyone should be stereotyped....I think asians should stick together to defend against people who might try to slander us, but I don't believe in slandering other races in revenge....besides, they're just jealous:)

[angel nympho]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm in no way complaining about anything anybody has to say on this site. I'm just frustruated because, while this is a site created to better ourselves and our individual situations, at times, I feel like it could be making mine worse. Like how a lot of you have stated certain situations that have turned you bitter towards whatever race... I think this might be my situation that will turn me bitter towards other Asians. :(

[Reinhard H.]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 9 2002, 05:57 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm in no way complaining about anything anybody has to say on this site. I'm just frustruated because, while this is a site created to better ourselves and our individual situations, at times, I feel like it could be making mine worse. Like how a lot of you have stated certain situations that have turned you bitter towards whatever race... I think this might be my situation that will turn me bitter towards other Asians. :(
Don't worry, the white knight is here to rescue you

[Hanuman]

I get a little frustrated too sometimes. I feel like there's a lot of tension about certain issues and that many people are quick to attack you because of what you say, or even what they interpret you as saying. However, I understand that other people are just voicing their opinions and views, and that's what makes it such a great forum, debate is what keeps this site alive. Some people are going to agree with what you say, and some aren't. As long as the disagreement isn't on a personal level, it's all good.

Remember that if your thinking or feeling something, chances are someone else (or lots of someones) are too, that's why it's so important that you stick tight to what you believe. I've noticed that you've always managed to rebutt, refute or concur pretty aptly in all the posts I've seen so far. I've agreed with a lot of what you've said and disagreed with some as well, but I can say, that I've thought what you had to say was well written and well thought out. Don't get jaded, this site is informative, but it's supposed to be fun too. Lets have fun!

[Green_Circle]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 8 2002, 10:59 PM
Can somebody help a girl out, here? I think most of you guys realize that I am not a racist person and I'm always interested to hear what other people have to say. It gives me something to think about. But I feel like the more I hear from the more angry, irate Asian activist types, the more inclined I am to stereotype such Asians... and the more inclined I am to defend white ideas. WTF is WRONG with me?!? There are times I really wish I never heard some of the things I hear on this website... because life used to be so much easier before I saw a *race side* to every issue....
Hang in there, Angel. What's happening is that a lot of good people here are complaining about real life situations that affect all of us. The more you hear the rants, the more it starts to seep in. You are becoming angry because your awareness levels are getting higher and higher. Don't be mad at the messengers. A good example is one night I was watching a movie about Native Americans being slaughtered and their land stolen and it goes on and on. I was ranting so much about it that my then GF said "why do you watch this movie if it disturbs you so much? Why not just turn the station?" Kool, ok but in real time we can't just turn the station.
:gross:

[kitty]

*sigh* wish I could go back to not noticing the shit that happens. my problem is that i'm way too opinionated... and i can't stand injustice.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 8 2002, 02:59 PM
There are times I really wish I never heard some of the things I hear on this website... because life used to be so much easier before I saw a *race side* to every issue....
Well, I've always seen a "race side" to various issues. But that's just me.

But I definitely understand where you're coming from. Racial discussions get tiring very quickly, though they do interest me, they annoy me at the same time.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Nov 9 2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 9 2002, 05:57 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm in no way complaining about anything anybody has to say on this site.  I'm just frustruated because, while this is a site created to better ourselves and our individual situations, at times, I feel like it could be making mine worse.  Like how a lot of you have stated certain situations that have turned you bitter towards whatever race... I think this might be my situation that will turn me bitter towards other Asians.   :(
Don't worry, the white knight is here to rescue you
oy vey gevalt! you're coming to her emotional rescue? ;)

[deez nuts]

Stop being bitter!

[Reinhard H.]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 10 2002, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Nov 9 2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 9 2002, 05:57 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm in no way complaining about anything anybody has to say on this site. I'm just frustruated because, while this is a site created to better ourselves and our individual situations, at times, I feel like it could be making mine worse. Like how a lot of you have stated certain situations that have turned you bitter towards whatever race... I think this might be my situation that will turn me bitter towards other Asians. :(
Don't worry, the white knight is here to rescue you
oy vey gevalt! you're coming to her emotional rescue? ;)
I'm not Jewish, what makes you think that? But your Yiddish isn't bad.

[hormiga]

Life used to be so much easier before I got internet access.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Nov 10 2002, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 10 2002, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Nov 9 2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 9 2002, 05:57 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm in no way complaining about anything anybody has to say on this site. I'm just frustruated because, while this is a site created to better ourselves and our individual situations, at times, I feel like it could be making mine worse. Like how a lot of you have stated certain situations that have turned you bitter towards whatever race... I think this might be my situation that will turn me bitter towards other Asians. :(
Don't worry, the white knight is here to rescue you
oy vey gevalt! you're coming to her emotional rescue? ;)
I'm not Jewish, what makes you think that? But your Yiddish isn't bad.
nah i just like using jewish expressions. :)

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 8 2002, 11:51 PM
race is only an issue if you make it one.
With all due respect, this simply isn't true. Just because an issue may not be recognized or acknowledged doesn't mean that it isn't there. Just because someone doesn't deal with a particular problem doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist. To use the Japanese American internment as an example, I know of a few former internees who did not like the redress and reparations movement back in the 1980s because it dug up a lot of "bad memories." However, you could also tell that these folks were still living with some unresolved pain, and the only way to make that pain go away was to get the government to admit that it committed an injustice against the community.

When it comes to issues of racial injustice in America, I guess it can be a fine line between genuinely reconciling oneself to something unpleasant and living in denial.

[MellowDrama]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Nov 10 2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 8 2002, 11:51 PM
race is only an issue if you make it one.
With all due respect, this simply isn't true. Just because an issue may not be recognized or acknowledged doesn't mean that it isn't there. Just because someone doesn't deal with a particular problem doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist. To use the Japanese American internment as an example, I know of a few former internees who did not like the redress and reparations movement back in the 1980s because it dug up a lot of "bad memories." However, you could also tell that these folks were still living with some unresolved pain, and the only way to make that pain go away was to get the government to admit that it committed an injustice against the community.

When it comes to issues of racial injustice in America, I guess it can be a fine line between genuinely reconciling oneself to something unpleasant and living in denial.

Okay, so getting singled out and discriminated against by my elementary school teacher solely based on my race (I'm sure of it, as I was the only Asian in the room and the only person in my class and there was no rationale behind her action other than that) was an issue because "I made it [an issue]"?

Um, no, fuck that. I'm a peaceful guy who just wants to be left alone, but if you come at me with some negativity, there will be hell to pay.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 10 2002, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Nov 9 2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 9 2002, 05:57 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm in no way complaining about anything anybody has to say on this site. I'm just frustruated because, while this is a site created to better ourselves and our individual situations, at times, I feel like it could be making mine worse. Like how a lot of you have stated certain situations that have turned you bitter towards whatever race... I think this might be my situation that will turn me bitter towards other Asians. :(
Don't worry, the white knight is here to rescue you
:huh:
I think that was Reinhard cracking a joke. He just didn't use smilies for sarcasm.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 10 2002, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Nov 10 2002, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 10 2002, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Nov 9 2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 9 2002, 05:57 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm in no way complaining about anything anybody has to say on this site. I'm just frustruated because, while this is a site created to better ourselves and our individual situations, at times, I feel like it could be making mine worse. Like how a lot of you have stated certain situations that have turned you bitter towards whatever race... I think this might be my situation that will turn me bitter towards other Asians. :(
Don't worry, the white knight is here to rescue you
:huh:
I think that was Reinhard cracking a joke. He just didn't use smilies for sarcasm.
Ah... ;)
Yeah, but I'm only guessing here...

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by MellowDrama@Nov 10 2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Shuriken@Nov 10 2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 8 2002, 11:51 PM
race is only an issue if you make it one.
With all due respect, this simply isn't true. Just because an issue may not be recognized or acknowledged doesn't mean that it isn't there. Just because someone doesn't deal with a particular problem doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist. To use the Japanese American internment as an example, I know of a few former internees who did not like the redress and reparations movement back in the 1980s because it dug up a lot of "bad memories." However, you could also tell that these folks were still living with some unresolved pain, and the only way to make that pain go away was to get the government to admit that it committed an injustice against the community.

When it comes to issues of racial injustice in America, I guess it can be a fine line between genuinely reconciling oneself to something unpleasant and living in denial.

Okay, so getting singled out and discriminated against by my elementary school teacher solely based on my race (I'm sure of it, as I was the only Asian in the room and the only person in my class and there was no rationale behind her action other than that) was an issue because "I made it [an issue]"?

Um, no, fuck that. I'm a peaceful guy who just wants to be left alone, but if you come at me with some negativity, there will be hell to pay.
"Race is only an issue if you make it one" wasn't meant to say what it did. By *YOU* I was referring to every person involved in a potentially raciSt situation. Race is only an issue if those who are being discriminatory make it one, I meant. Race is only an issue if the persons involved in the situation make it one. When ONE person makes it an issue, it becomes one. I'm saying that if we can get people (Uh.. ALL people, not just *YOU*) to not look at race as an issue, it won't be one anymore.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 10 2002, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by MellowDrama@Nov 10 2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Shuriken@Nov 10 2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 8 2002, 11:51 PM
race is only an issue if you make it one.
With all due respect, this simply isn't true. Just because an issue may not be recognized or acknowledged doesn't mean that it isn't there. Just because someone doesn't deal with a particular problem doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist. To use the Japanese American internment as an example, I know of a few former internees who did not like the redress and reparations movement back in the 1980s because it dug up a lot of "bad memories." However, you could also tell that these folks were still living with some unresolved pain, and the only way to make that pain go away was to get the government to admit that it committed an injustice against the community.

When it comes to issues of racial injustice in America, I guess it can be a fine line between genuinely reconciling oneself to something unpleasant and living in denial.

Okay, so getting singled out and discriminated against by my elementary school teacher solely based on my race (I'm sure of it, as I was the only Asian in the room and the only person in my class and there was no rationale behind her action other than that) was an issue because "I made it [an issue]"?

Um, no, fuck that. I'm a peaceful guy who just wants to be left alone, but if you come at me with some negativity, there will be hell to pay.
"Race is only an issue if you make it one" wasn't meant to say what it did. By *YOU* I was referring to every person involved in a potentially raciSt situation. Race is only an issue if those who are being discriminatory make it one, I meant. Race is only an issue if the persons involved in the situation make it one. When ONE person makes it an issue, it becomes one. I'm saying that if we can get people (Uh.. ALL people, not just *YOU*) to not look at race as an issue, it won't be one anymore.
you have to realize that in many if not most racist situations, it's the racist instigator(s) that are making it a racial issue.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 10 2002, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by MellowDrama@Nov 10 2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Shuriken@Nov 10 2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 8 2002, 11:51 PM
race is only an issue if you make it one.
With all due respect, this simply isn't true. Just because an issue may not be recognized or acknowledged doesn't mean that it isn't there. Just because someone doesn't deal with a particular problem doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist. To use the Japanese American internment as an example, I know of a few former internees who did not like the redress and reparations movement back in the 1980s because it dug up a lot of "bad memories." However, you could also tell that these folks were still living with some unresolved pain, and the only way to make that pain go away was to get the government to admit that it committed an injustice against the community.

When it comes to issues of racial injustice in America, I guess it can be a fine line between genuinely reconciling oneself to something unpleasant and living in denial.

Okay, so getting singled out and discriminated against by my elementary school teacher solely based on my race (I'm sure of it, as I was the only Asian in the room and the only person in my class and there was no rationale behind her action other than that) was an issue because "I made it [an issue]"?

Um, no, fuck that. I'm a peaceful guy who just wants to be left alone, but if you come at me with some negativity, there will be hell to pay.
"Race is only an issue if you make it one" wasn't meant to say what it did. By *YOU* I was referring to every person involved in a potentially raciSt situation. Race is only an issue if those who are being discriminatory make it one, I meant. Race is only an issue if the persons involved in the situation make it one. When ONE person makes it an issue, it becomes one. I'm saying that if we can get people (Uh.. ALL people, not just *YOU*) to not look at race as an issue, it won't be one anymore.
you have to realize that in many if not most racist situations, it's the racist instigator(s) that are making it a racial issue.
I DO realize that. That is what I meant. When these racial instigators stop making race an issue, it shouldn't be one anymore. Jeeze, I'm not ALWAYS against the Asians... Didn't you read my post? I thought I had that pretty clearly stated.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 10 2002, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by MellowDrama@Nov 10 2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Shuriken@Nov 10 2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 8 2002, 11:51 PM
race is only an issue if you make it one.
With all due respect, this simply isn't true. Just because an issue may not be recognized or acknowledged doesn't mean that it isn't there. Just because someone doesn't deal with a particular problem doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist. To use the Japanese American internment as an example, I know of a few former internees who did not like the redress and reparations movement back in the 1980s because it dug up a lot of "bad memories." However, you could also tell that these folks were still living with some unresolved pain, and the only way to make that pain go away was to get the government to admit that it committed an injustice against the community.

When it comes to issues of racial injustice in America, I guess it can be a fine line between genuinely reconciling oneself to something unpleasant and living in denial.

Okay, so getting singled out and discriminated against by my elementary school teacher solely based on my race (I'm sure of it, as I was the only Asian in the room and the only person in my class and there was no rationale behind her action other than that) was an issue because "I made it [an issue]"?

Um, no, fuck that. I'm a peaceful guy who just wants to be left alone, but if you come at me with some negativity, there will be hell to pay.
"Race is only an issue if you make it one" wasn't meant to say what it did. By *YOU* I was referring to every person involved in a potentially raciSt situation. Race is only an issue if those who are being discriminatory make it one, I meant. Race is only an issue if the persons involved in the situation make it one. When ONE person makes it an issue, it becomes one. I'm saying that if we can get people (Uh.. ALL people, not just *YOU*) to not look at race as an issue, it won't be one anymore.
you have to realize that in many if not most racist situations, it's the racist instigator(s) that are making it a racial issue.
I DO realize that. That is what I meant. When these racial instigators stop making race an issue, it shouldn't be one anymore. Jeeze, I'm not ALWAYS against the Asians... Didn't you read my post? I thought I had that pretty clearly stated.
hey nobody is saying that you are "against the asians".

but there really is no way for racial instigators to start a racial issue and then in the middle stop making it a racial issue.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 05:15 PM
you have to realize that in many if not most racist situations, it's the racist instigator(s) that are making it a racial issue.
I DO realize that. That is what I meant. When these racial instigators stop making race an issue, it shouldn't be one anymore. Jeeze, I'm not ALWAYS against the Asians... Didn't you read my post? I thought I had that pretty clearly stated.
hey nobody is saying that you are "against the asians".

but there really is no way for racial instigators to start a racial issue and then in the middle stop making it a racial issue.
Omygod. Am I that hard to understand???

I mean that when PEOPLE IN GENERAL ... ALLLL PEOPLE.... stop looking at race as something they can USE to get ahead, hopefully there won't be any DISCRIMINATORY SITUATIONS to deal with anymore. When nobody's getting oppressed or pissed off, then we should ALL stop looking at race to be an issue.

In no WAY did I mean that they should stop making race an issue... in the middle of an issue. Apparently we are talking about two way different things.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 05:15 PM
you have to realize that in many if not most racist situations, it's the racist instigator(s) that are making it a racial issue.
I DO realize that. That is what I meant. When these racial instigators stop making race an issue, it shouldn't be one anymore. Jeeze, I'm not ALWAYS against the Asians... Didn't you read my post? I thought I had that pretty clearly stated.
hey nobody is saying that you are "against the asians".

but there really is no way for racial instigators to start a racial issue and then in the middle stop making it a racial issue.
Omygod. Am I that hard to understand???

I mean that when PEOPLE IN GENERAL ... ALLLL PEOPLE.... stop looking at race as something they can USE to get ahead, hopefully there won't be any DISCRIMINATORY SITUATIONS to deal with anymore. When nobody's getting oppressed or pissed off, then we should ALL stop looking at race to be an issue.

In no WAY did I mean that they should stop making race an issue... in the middle of an issue. Apparently we are talking about two way different things.
ok, i agree that there are some people that uses race to get ahead, but i think overwhelmingly the question of race comes up because there was racial discrimination to begin with and race was then used to indicate that compensatory actions needed to be taken because there was racial discrimination.

[VV o n g B a]

*edit*

i deleted my original post b/c after rereading it, my conclusions were painfully obvious and off topic.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 05:15 PM
you have to realize that in many if not most racist situations, it's the racist instigator(s) that are making it a racial issue.
I DO realize that. That is what I meant. When these racial instigators stop making race an issue, it shouldn't be one anymore. Jeeze, I'm not ALWAYS against the Asians... Didn't you read my post? I thought I had that pretty clearly stated.
hey nobody is saying that you are "against the asians".

but there really is no way for racial instigators to start a racial issue and then in the middle stop making it a racial issue.
Omygod. Am I that hard to understand???

I mean that when PEOPLE IN GENERAL ... ALLLL PEOPLE.... stop looking at race as something they can USE to get ahead, hopefully there won't be any DISCRIMINATORY SITUATIONS to deal with anymore. When nobody's getting oppressed or pissed off, then we should ALL stop looking at race to be an issue.

In no WAY did I mean that they should stop making race an issue... in the middle of an issue. Apparently we are talking about two way different things.
i don't think that's *necessarily* true. Say, for instance, that because of past racism, black people were segregated into ghettos w/ poor schools while white people could afford to move to suburbs. then the repercussions of racism could last long after no one thinks about race, cuz there'd still be a huge inequality between blacks and whites cuz of where they live, which shapes their educational & job opportunities, and the services they receive fr the gov't.

So I think racism, or should i say, the effects of racism, can be built into society, and in fact one way of CORRECTING that is to think about race, and how race helped determine or shape some things in society. Maybe if there had never BEEN racism, then we'd have the luxury of never having to think about race, but just given PAST racism, we'd still have to think about race just to correct the past.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 05:15 PM
you have to realize that in many if not most racist situations, it's the racist instigator(s) that are making it a racial issue.
I DO realize that. That is what I meant. When these racial instigators stop making race an issue, it shouldn't be one anymore. Jeeze, I'm not ALWAYS against the Asians... Didn't you read my post? I thought I had that pretty clearly stated.
hey nobody is saying that you are "against the asians".

but there really is no way for racial instigators to start a racial issue and then in the middle stop making it a racial issue.
Omygod. Am I that hard to understand???

I mean that when PEOPLE IN GENERAL ... ALLLL PEOPLE.... stop looking at race as something they can USE to get ahead, hopefully there won't be any DISCRIMINATORY SITUATIONS to deal with anymore. When nobody's getting oppressed or pissed off, then we should ALL stop looking at race to be an issue.

In no WAY did I mean that they should stop making race an issue... in the middle of an issue. Apparently we are talking about two way different things.
i don't think that's *necessarily* true. Say, for instance, that because of past racism, black people were segregated into ghettos w/ poor schools while white people could afford to move to suburbs. then the repercussions of racism could last long after no one thinks about race, cuz there'd still be a huge inequality between blacks and whites cuz of where they live, which shapes their educational & job opportunities, and the services they receive fr the gov't.

So I think racism, or should i say, the effects of racism, can be built into society, and in fact one way of CORRECTING that is to think about race, and how race helped determine or shape some things in society. Maybe if there had never BEEN racism, then we'd have the luxury of never having to think about race, but just given PAST racism, we'd still have to think about race just to correct the past.
*RIPS HAIR OUT*

What I'm talking about is an ABSTRACT concept. It will NEVER HAPPEN. It's something that we should STRIVE for, however. It's something I think people should keep in the backs of their minds. That racism is a HUMAN INVENTION, not a discovery. That racism was created by us, and has the potential ability to be destroyed by us.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 05:15 PM
you have to realize that in many if not most racist situations, it's the racist instigator(s) that are making it a racial issue.
I DO realize that. That is what I meant. When these racial instigators stop making race an issue, it shouldn't be one anymore. Jeeze, I'm not ALWAYS against the Asians... Didn't you read my post? I thought I had that pretty clearly stated.
hey nobody is saying that you are "against the asians".

but there really is no way for racial instigators to start a racial issue and then in the middle stop making it a racial issue.
Omygod. Am I that hard to understand???

I mean that when PEOPLE IN GENERAL ... ALLLL PEOPLE.... stop looking at race as something they can USE to get ahead, hopefully there won't be any DISCRIMINATORY SITUATIONS to deal with anymore. When nobody's getting oppressed or pissed off, then we should ALL stop looking at race to be an issue.

In no WAY did I mean that they should stop making race an issue... in the middle of an issue. Apparently we are talking about two way different things.
i don't think that's *necessarily* true. Say, for instance, that because of past racism, black people were segregated into ghettos w/ poor schools while white people could afford to move to suburbs. then the repercussions of racism could last long after no one thinks about race, cuz there'd still be a huge inequality between blacks and whites cuz of where they live, which shapes their educational & job opportunities, and the services they receive fr the gov't.

So I think racism, or should i say, the effects of racism, can be built into society, and in fact one way of CORRECTING that is to think about race, and how race helped determine or shape some things in society. Maybe if there had never BEEN racism, then we'd have the luxury of never having to think about race, but just given PAST racism, we'd still have to think about race just to correct the past.
*RIPS HAIR OUT*

What I'm talking about is an ABSTRACT concept. It will NEVER HAPPEN. It's something that we should STRIVE for, however. It's something I think people should keep in the backs of their minds. That racism is a HUMAN INVENTION, not a discovery. That racism was created by us, and has the potential ability to be destroyed by us.
and how will we strive for this if we don't bring up race as an issue?

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 07:50 PM


What I'm talking about is an ABSTRACT concept. It will NEVER HAPPEN. It's something that we should STRIVE for, however. It's something I think people should keep in the backs of their minds. That racism is a HUMAN INVENTION, not a discovery. That racism was created by us, and has the potential ability to be destroyed by us.
All I'm saying is racism isn't always as simple as what people think; it doesn't matter if it was a human invention in the past, but once it's built into society, it takes a continued awareness of race to get rid of its effects.

but i'm not gonna be ripping my hair out if no one understands me. :)

[angel nympho]

and how will we strive for this if we don't bring up race as an issue?

^-- OH MY GOD. You guys are frustruating the hell out of me. I'm NOT saying we shouldn't think of race as an issue, RACE WILL ALWAYS BE AN ISSUE. I'm saying that we should always keep hope that one day it will not. I'm saying that when we are in situations where we could potentially discriminate against somebody, we should stop and think about what we're doing and remember that race is something created by people, and can easily be destroyed by people, if everybody just wanted to try a little harder.

Forget it. This is why I'm getting bitter. Nobody can read my mind, therefore nobody will ever know or understand what I'm saying. I'm dropping this. Somebody please fucking close this thread.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 07:59 PM
but i'm not gonna be ripping my hair out if no one understands me. :)
Well congratulations. There's the difference between you and me. For the most part people DO agree with you. But I never get anybody to even SEE thigns from my point of view. So I will continue to rip my hair out.

[ChinaLama]

honestly, there's no reason to be BITTER. if people don't get it, just shrug it off. if you wanna keep clarifying what you're saying, that's even better but there's no need to get pissed off just cuz no one seems to get EXACTLY what you're saying. :) Sometimes debates get really academic and nitpicky, but they're not personal, so i don't see why there's so much emotion in it.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 08:04 PM
honestly, there's no reason to be BITTER. if people don't get it, just shrug it off. if you wanna keep clarifying what you're saying, that's even better but there's no need to get pissed off just cuz no one seems to get EXACTLY what you're saying. :)  Sometimes debates get really academic and nitpicky, but they're not personal, so i don't see why there's so much emotion in it.
I'm not bitter because people don't agree with me. I'm FRUSTRUATED because people don't really understand me.

Like I said before, I'm BITTER because people who are strongly against racism ARE RACIST.

[angel nympho]

The reason things get personal is because I define myself on my beliefs, morals, and opinions. When somebody trashes them, they are essentially trashing me. And that pisses me off. I don't care if somebody doesnt AGREE with me, but it's one thing not to agree, and another thing to totally stick your penis in my opnions and swirl them around. Not saying that you did that or anything, just that it's been done.



Oops, sorry for the double post.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 07:59 PM
but i'm not gonna be ripping my hair out if no one understands me. :)
Well congratulations. There's the difference between you and me. For the most part people DO agree with you. But I never get anybody to even SEE thigns from my point of view. So I will continue to rip my hair out.
i think people see things your way plenty of times but maybe when people don't see it your way, they may sound more excited about it. But really it's just a matter of style, no personal affront meant. :)

or ppl agree w/ you in part, but not in whole. Also, like if i just 100% agree w/ something, i don't reply to it. I just think, "that's a good point" and let it rest like that. So...there's actually a lot of hidden agreement out there; i personally and maybe a lot of other ppl just feel it's better to voice disagreement instead of just saying "i agree."

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:00 PM
I'm saying that when we are in situations where we could potentially discriminate against somebody, we should stop and think about what we're doing and remember that race is something created by people, and can easily be destroyed by people, if everybody just wanted to try a little harder.

isn't that kind of obvious information?
i think this has been what non-racist people have been trying to tell racist people for decades.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 07:59 PM
but i'm not gonna be ripping my hair out if no one understands me. :)
Well congratulations. There's the difference between you and me. For the most part people DO agree with you. But I never get anybody to even SEE thigns from my point of view. So I will continue to rip my hair out.
i think people see things your way plenty of times but maybe when people don't see it your way, they may sound more excited about it. But really it's just a matter of style, no personal affront meant. :)

or ppl agree w/ you in part, but not in whole. Also, like if i just 100% agree w/ something, i don't reply to it. I just think, "that's a good point" and let it rest like that. So...there's actually a lot of hidden agreement out there; i personally and maybe a lot of other ppl just feel it's better to voice disagreement instead of just saying "i agree."
I'm not talking about this forum. I'm talking about life in general. My life is full of frustruations. Just leave it at that.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:00 PM
I'm saying that when we are in situations where we could potentially discriminate against somebody, we should stop and think about what we're doing and remember that race is something created by people, and can easily be destroyed by people, if everybody just wanted to try a little harder.

isn't that kind of obvious information?
i think this has been what non-racist people have been trying to tell racist people for decades.
Yes, it is obvious information. Which is exactly why I'm so frustruated that you've been arguing with me. I was sitting here trying to argue what is a commonly known fact.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:00 PM
I'm saying that when we are in situations where we could potentially discriminate against somebody, we should stop and think about what we're doing and remember that race is something created by people, and can easily be destroyed by people, if everybody just wanted to try a little harder.

isn't that kind of obvious information?
i think this has been what non-racist people have been trying to tell racist people for decades.
Yes, it is obvious information. Which is exactly why I'm so frustruated that you've been arguing with me. I was sitting here trying to argue what is a commonly known fact.
so we agree. what's there to be so frustrated about?

[angel nympho]

^- The fact that it took 4 pages to clarify that.

[ChinaLama]

ehhh well, just to jump in and make you even MORE pissed off... i think when i first read your post, "race is an issue cuz people make it," it just immediately made me think of how conservatives go "ohhh there's no real racism. if there weren't ppl like al sharpton talking about racism, then we wouldn't have racism." and in what must be the greatest right-wing appropriation of left-wing ideals, they go "race is a social construct. therefore, there wouldn't be racism if ppl stopped thinking about race." So that's why I jumped in w/ the whole social structures thing, cuz when I saw that post, that's what went through my mind, and i felt that was simplistic. so sorry if it took a long time for me to understand what you were saying, but when i hear things, i usually think to when i've heard that before and match the statement w/ that idea.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:17 PM
^- The fact that it took 4 pages to clarify that.
so if you thought that i was agreeing with you, why did you bother to respond?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:17 PM
^- The fact that it took 4 pages to clarify that.
so if you thought that i was agreeing with you, why did you bother to respond?
Because you were insisting that you were disagreeing. So I took the liberty of trying to explain that what you were saying wasn't relevant to what I was saying.... To, umm... clarify....???

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 08:21 PM
ehhh well, just to jump in and make you even MORE pissed off... i think when i first read your post, "race is an issue cuz people make it," it just immediately made me think of how conservatives go "ohhh there's no real racism. if there weren't ppl like al sharpton talking about racism, then we wouldn't have racism." and in what must be the greatest right-wing appropriation of left-wing ideals, they go "race is a social construct. therefore, there wouldn't be racism if ppl stopped thinking about race." So that's why I jumped in w/ the whole social structures thing, cuz when I saw that post, that's what went through my mind, and i felt that was simplistic. so sorry if it took a long time for me to understand what you were saying, but when i hear things, i usually think to when i've heard that before and match the statement w/ that idea.
Yeah, well thats not what I meant.

[Hiroshi2]

angel nympho:

I know I've butted heads with you in a couple of threads around here, but I just want to say that I do respect you for sticking up for what you believe in. I know I can get carried away sometimes myself, but please realize that I and others are also just as passionate about our opinions as you are about yours.

I never meant to disrespect you personally or anything like that, so if I did, I apologize.

BTW (and I'm speaking to everybody really here), I still do believe race is an issue in today's society. You cannot tell me that it isn't. When I was picked on and singled out as a kid living in a black neighorhood because my mother was asian, race was an issue. When I notice the dirty looks I get from some white cops, even if I don't like the slightest bit suspicious, race is an issue.

That's all I wanted to say.

Peace.

[angel nympho]

Like I said before, I don't MIND if people disagree with me!!! I'm bitter because people are HYPOCRITICAL. Not because they don't AGREE with me or get ME upset or something... I couldn't give a crap about stuff like that. I just don't like seeing people "standing up against racism" and then perpetuating it themselves. That kind of stuff makes me really wish I wasn't part of the same ethnic group as some people.

[muscat gummy]

^so are you saying that reverse-racism is as bad if not worse than regular racism?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by muscat gummy@Nov 11 2002, 08:52 PM
^so are you saying that reverse-racism is as bad if not worse than regular racism?
Yes i am. If you want equality, that's what you should get.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 08:45 PM
Like I said before, I don't MIND if people disagree with me!!! I'm bitter because people are HYPOCRITICAL. Not because they don't AGREE with me or get ME upset or something... I couldn't give a crap about stuff like that. I just don't like seeing people "standing up against racism" and then perpetuating it themselves. That kind of stuff makes me really wish I wasn't part of the same ethnic group as some people.
well...i dunno exactly what you mean by perpetuating racism. i don't think for the past 4 pages (excepting my comments about how the west should rule the world...oops), anyone's perpetuating racism just by talking about race. So my take was you were frustrated we didn't get what you were saying.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:17 PM
^- The fact that it took 4 pages to clarify that.
so if you thought that i was agreeing with you, why did you bother to respond?
Because you were insisting that you were disagreeing. So I took the liberty of trying to explain that what you were saying wasn't relevant to what I was saying.... To, umm... clarify....???
oh, you should have just told me that we are actually agreeing. :)

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 08:45 PM
Like I said before, I don't MIND if people disagree with me!!!  I'm bitter because people are HYPOCRITICAL.  Not because they don't AGREE with me or get ME upset or something... I couldn't give a crap about stuff like that.  I just don't like seeing people "standing up against racism" and then perpetuating it themselves.  That kind of stuff makes me really wish I wasn't part of the same ethnic group as some people.
well...i dunno exactly what you mean by perpetuating racism. i don't think for the past 4 pages (excepting my comments about how the west should rule the world...oops), anyone's perpetuating racism just by talking about race. So my take was you were frustrated we didn't get what you were saying.
The point of this thread was that I was becoming more and more bitter about things after being exposed to some people around here. It didn't have anything to do with the last 4 pages.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 11 2002, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 03:17 PM
^- The fact that it took 4 pages to clarify that.
so if you thought that i was agreeing with you, why did you bother to respond?
Because you were insisting that you were disagreeing. So I took the liberty of trying to explain that what you were saying wasn't relevant to what I was saying.... To, umm... clarify....???
oh, you should have just told me that we are actually agreeing. :)
But *SHrug* I wasn't exactly 100% on top of what you were saying either.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 08:00 PM
and how will we strive for this if we don't bring up race as an issue?

^-- OH MY GOD. You guys are frustruating the hell out of me. I'm NOT saying we shouldn't think of race as an issue, RACE WILL ALWAYS BE AN ISSUE. I'm saying that we should always keep hope that one day it will not. I'm saying that when we are in situations where we could potentially discriminate against somebody, we should stop and think about what we're doing and remember that race is something created by people, and can easily be destroyed by people, if everybody just wanted to try a little harder.

Forget it. This is why I'm getting bitter. Nobody can read my mind, therefore nobody will ever know or understand what I'm saying. I'm dropping this. Somebody please fucking close this thread.
sorry to butt in

but angel, do you even know what you are talking about?

i try quite hard to stop racism but as Sunwu said, We usually don't instigate. we retaliate.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Nov 11 2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 08:00 PM
and how will we strive for this if we don't bring up race as an issue?

^-- OH MY GOD. You guys are frustruating the hell out of me. I'm NOT saying we shouldn't think of race as an issue, RACE WILL ALWAYS BE AN ISSUE. I'm saying that we should always keep hope that one day it will not. I'm saying that when we are in situations where we could potentially discriminate against somebody, we should stop and think about what we're doing and remember that race is something created by people, and can easily be destroyed by people, if everybody just wanted to try a little harder.

Forget it. This is why I'm getting bitter. Nobody can read my mind, therefore nobody will ever know or understand what I'm saying. I'm dropping this. Somebody please fucking close this thread.
sorry to butt in

but angel, do you even know what you are talking about?

i try quite hard to stop racism but as Sunwu said, We usually don't instigate. we retaliate.
Yes.

It's not my fault YOU don't know what I'm talking about, though.


I never said you instigated anything. But retaliation with racism isn't exactly furthering your cause.

[Arex]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 08:45 PM
Like I said before, I don't MIND if people disagree with me!!! I'm bitter because people are HYPOCRITICAL. Not because they don't AGREE with me or get ME upset or something... I couldn't give a crap about stuff like that. I just don't like seeing people "standing up against racism" and then perpetuating it themselves. That kind of stuff makes me really wish I wasn't part of the same ethnic group as some people.
well...i dunno exactly what you mean by perpetuating racism. i don't think for the past 4 pages (excepting my comments about how the west should rule the world...oops), anyone's perpetuating racism just by talking about race. So my take was you were frustrated we didn't get what you were saying.
The point of this thread was that I was becoming more and more bitter about things after being exposed to some people around here. It didn't have anything to do with the last 4 pages.
I'm not in your shoes so, of course, I can never really get into your head and see things exactly from your point of view. But I can certainly try and when I do I can't say I blame you for feeling more than a bit of resentment as a result of many of the things you've been exposed to on this site. There is a reasonable amount of hypocrisy out there (I'm sure even I'm guilty of some degree of it, try as I might to minimize it in my actions and beliefs). However, you say that "That kind of stuff makes me really wish I wasn't part of the same ethnic group as some people." Like it or not, there are hypocrits and racists in every ethnic group--it's by no means an "Asian" thing. If we're striving to meet our ideals (where race should not be a factor), then the mere fact that some Asian and Asian Americans are racist/hypocritical/ignorant should have little effect on how you view Asians and AAs as a whole. Just as you (rightly) refuse to impute the racist actions and beliefs of a minority of white people to the entire white population, it only seems fair that you give Asians and AAs that same benefit of the doubt. My $.02...

Alex

[muscat gummy]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by muscat gummy@Nov 11 2002, 08:52 PM
^so are you saying that reverse-racism is as bad if not worse than regular racism?
Yes i am. If you want equality, that's what you should get.
interesting. so do you think there should be no "grace period" where a group is allowed to practice reverse-racism in order to get their voice heard and certain points across.


at least reverse-racism in the sense of projecting an image of "unity" or having "all black schools" in order to "catch up" with the white population?

just playing devil's advocate here... but there has to be situations or contexts in which what you would term "reverse-racism" is ok.

[kitty]

Originally posted by muscat gummy@Nov 12 2002, 03:23 AM

interesting. so do you think there should be no "grace period" where a group is allowed to practice reverse-racism in order to get their voice heard and certain points across.


at least reverse-racism in the sense of projecting an image of "unity" or having "all black schools" in order to "catch up" with the white population?

just playing devil's advocate here... but there has to be situations or contexts in which what you would term "reverse-racism" is ok.
My two cents: I think angel totally has a point, and I'm not sure what the big confusion was... IF we all lived in a society where we weren't superficial, we'd be able to look beyond race and see people for who/what they are and like/hate them for that. The problem is that the way our brains are wired, we necessarily HAVE to make quick judgement calls based on prior experience and a superficial examination. (well, at least that's what we learned in psych intro)... So, because we are told, either by hollywood, personal experience, parentsetc... we get a certain impression of certain groups, and we tend to stereotype in order to ease information overload. Our brains are also wired to categorize based on obvious differences, such as race, gender, etc...

Basically, we sort of naturally discriminate and our racist, and this is true of all humans, oppressed minorities or otherwise. But, we are also graced with the ability to analyze, compare, and be self-aware. So, even though we naturally jump to certain conclusions based on preexisting prejudices, we should actively work against this tendancy. If more people actually recognized that they CAN and DO discriminate against others (based on race, class, gender, age, disabilities, creed, etc.) the closer we come to having a society that works against it and makes things better.

We can only work on ourselves; rather than preaching, we should stop to look into our own psyches and work out our own shit.

And reverse-racism has never accomplished anything but perpetuating the vicious cycle of discrimination and ALLOWING for it to exist.

[kimchee63]

Angel - One of the things you do is get us angry activist types to lighten up.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Arex@Nov 12 2002, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 11 2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 08:45 PM
Like I said before, I don't MIND if people disagree with me!!! I'm bitter because people are HYPOCRITICAL. Not because they don't AGREE with me or get ME upset or something... I couldn't give a crap about stuff like that. I just don't like seeing people "standing up against racism" and then perpetuating it themselves. That kind of stuff makes me really wish I wasn't part of the same ethnic group as some people.
well...i dunno exactly what you mean by perpetuating racism. i don't think for the past 4 pages (excepting my comments about how the west should rule the world...oops), anyone's perpetuating racism just by talking about race. So my take was you were frustrated we didn't get what you were saying.
The point of this thread was that I was becoming more and more bitter about things after being exposed to some people around here. It didn't have anything to do with the last 4 pages.
I'm not in your shoes so, of course, I can never really get into your head and see things exactly from your point of view. But I can certainly try and when I do I can't say I blame you for feeling more than a bit of resentment as a result of many of the things you've been exposed to on this site. There is a reasonable amount of hypocrisy out there (I'm sure even I'm guilty of some degree of it, try as I might to minimize it in my actions and beliefs). However, you say that "That kind of stuff makes me really wish I wasn't part of the same ethnic group as some people." Like it or not, there are hypocrits and racists in every ethnic group--it's by no means an "Asian" thing. If we're striving to meet our ideals (where race should not be a factor), then the mere fact that some Asian and Asian Americans are racist/hypocritical/ignorant should have little effect on how you view Asians and AAs as a whole. Just as you (rightly) refuse to impute the racist actions and beliefs of a minority of white people to the entire white population, it only seems fair that you give Asians and AAs that same benefit of the doubt. My $.02...

Alex
I remember somebody talking about "acting Asian" in another thread once. I can't exactly remember what was said, but I'm sure I can dig it up for you later. All I remember is that my response to that was "if this is what being an Asian American is all about, count me out." And that still stands.

I'm not saying there isn't hypocracy everywhere.... but, to be quite honest, I really do believe that Asians are a lot more racist than they need to be. And that's a general statement, it doesn't apply to everybody, of course. In general, though. I think there's more of a problem within ourselves than without. And while I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, the difference I see is that those select few Asians that are the ones getting me bitter are perpetuating racism by claiming to be trying to destroy it. The ones that get me bitter are the ones that, for NO moment, will pause to accept the fact that maybe, just maybe, race isn't as big of a deal to the person they're talking to as it is to them. Maybe that white guy who gave him a dirty look on the street corner did it because he was having a bad day, not because he hates Asians. Maybe that black kid working the cash register gave him the wrong change because he sucks at math, not because he thinks Asians are too rich anyway. There are some things in life where race just doesn't matter. At least I'm young enough to see it that way.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by muscat gummy@Nov 12 2002, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by muscat gummy@Nov 11 2002, 08:52 PM
^so are you saying that reverse-racism is as bad if not worse than regular racism?
Yes i am. If you want equality, that's what you should get.
interesting. so do you think there should be no "grace period" where a group is allowed to practice reverse-racism in order to get their voice heard and certain points across.


at least reverse-racism in the sense of projecting an image of "unity" or having "all black schools" in order to "catch up" with the white population?

just playing devil's advocate here... but there has to be situations or contexts in which what you would term "reverse-racism" is ok.
Reverse racism is still racism. Condoning it is condoning inequality. That's the bottom line. I don't care WHO it helps, it's not fair. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Adaon]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 12 2002, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by muscat gummy@Nov 12 2002, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 11 2002, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by muscat gummy@Nov 11 2002, 08:52 PM
^so are you saying that reverse-racism is as bad if not worse than regular racism?
Yes i am. If you want equality, that's what you should get.
interesting. so do you think there should be no "grace period" where a group is allowed to practice reverse-racism in order to get their voice heard and certain points across.


at least reverse-racism in the sense of projecting an image of "unity" or having "all black schools" in order to "catch up" with the white population?

just playing devil's advocate here... but there has to be situations or contexts in which what you would term "reverse-racism" is ok.
Reverse racism is still racism. Condoning it is condoning inequality. That's the bottom line. I don't care WHO it helps, it's not fair. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I totally agree with NA's statement about wanting equality and being able to get it. However, that would at best only be acheived in a Utopia society, which has yet to be seen. I also agree with her statement about two wrongs don't make a right.
*sorry if I sound like suck up, I happen to agree*

Even though "reverse discrimination" is an attempt to right an injustice, it's still not levelling the field for everyone. It's only an attempt to do so, a feeble one at that.

Too bad we all live in a world where some people have a death grip hold of their views of the world , no matter how misguided they seem to other people. It's because of people being stubborn and unrelenting to try and understand other people that racism and other injustice STILL exist today....because some people just don't know when to let something go....

But that's why living in a world where choices are plentiful sucks. You can choose to be racist, and not except someone because their different. You can choose whether or not to help someone "see the light" on certain topics. You can choose to comment or not to this post too.....






The real scary part is when the choice to do something is taken away.......

[kitty]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 12 2002, 03:53 PM

Anywho, can someone give me their definition on reverse-racism? (Some said forming an all-Black school was racism, whereas, maybe that can benefit the students)...

Moreover, I'm pretty sure the school wouldn't be entirely "Black"...but, if they had an agenda to get those kids together, how is that racist?

Educate me... :huh:
reverse-racism is basically any form of racism by an oppressed minority community to the majority. So, the example would be, if I were black, and I had experienced so much racism against me from whites, I could be racist against a white, by ascribing negative characteristics to whites, or trying to exclude them from any opportunities that they might want that I had power over (like a black CEO who decides not to hire any whites to 'compensate' for the oppression of his people).

Generally, arguments against all-black schools are that they are voluntarily segregationist, fostering a lack of community, rather than that they are reverse-racist. They might actively try to prevent non-blacks from attending, but most of the time, they can't outright say that, or it's considered un-constitutional.

[kitty]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 12 2002, 05:26 PM

Let's say a person who happens to be "Black," who happens to be a "man"....(maybe lives in the midwest) possibly been called "nigger" all his life--as he believes it is his name...possibly by men, women, and children...(since he may be the only person of "color" in that vicinity)...

How would you educate him otherwise?...(mind you, the "Black man" can also be changed to an "Native-American Man")...

Would you...Can you blame him for thinking negatively?:huh:

BTW, this incident I recall some years back on the news...
Humanly? no. And that's why reverse-racism exists. But, at the same time, allowing it to happen perpetuates the cycle of racism... (what happens when whites feel that they are getting racism from all other minority groups, claim that they are oppressed, and eventually choose to react by being racist, again, to minorities... more 'reverse'-racism)

[angel nympho]

My idea about reverse racism is, though, that it's not fair to punish an entire race for something that only the racist extremists have done. Ex: It wouldn't be fair to those peaceful white people who AREN'T involved in the KKK or whatnot to allow ALL black people (not only just the ones who had shit done to them) to go out and burn the houses down of all the whites. Okay, kind of a radical example, but do you see what I'm getting at? Not ALL minorities have been totally discriminated against and not ALL majorities have done the discriminating. So it's not fair. Besides, it's still perpetuating racism. It's still inequality. No matter what light you see it in, it's still racism. Just because you're discriminating agianst a white person doesn't make you any less of a BIGOT.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 12 2002, 09:12 PM
My idea about reverse racism is, though, that it's not fair to punish an entire race for something that only the racist extremists have done. Ex: It wouldn't be fair to those peaceful white people who AREN'T involved in the KKK or whatnot to allow ALL black people (not only just the ones who had shit done to them) to go out and burn the houses down of all the whites. Okay, kind of a radical example, but do you see what I'm getting at? Not ALL minorities have been totally discriminated against and not ALL majorities have done the discriminating. So it's not fair. Besides, it's still perpetuating racism. It's still inequality. No matter what light you see it in, it's still racism. Just because you're discriminating agianst a white person doesn't make you any less of a BIGOT.
i don't punish entire races. but asians and other minorities have been by the majority. Blacks were looked upon as slaves. So were asians. There was the japanese internment camp and the chinese exclusion act. I've seen pictures of the colored only and white only bathrooms. Entire races have already been punished by a large majority vote in the past i'm sure.

Do you think that in just over 3 generations that all these attitudes will disappear from the family beliefs. I think that racism is often hereditary. Although i have to say that for a large number of people, discriminatory beliefs fade but i'm sure that for a large number it stays the same.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Nov 13 2002, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 12 2002, 09:12 PM
My idea about reverse racism is, though, that it's not fair to punish an entire race for something that only the racist extremists have done.  Ex: It wouldn't be fair to those peaceful white people who AREN'T involved in the KKK or whatnot to allow ALL black people (not only just the ones who had shit done to them) to go out and burn the houses down of all the whites.  Okay, kind of a radical example, but do you see what I'm getting at?  Not ALL minorities have been totally discriminated against and not ALL majorities have done the discriminating.  So it's not fair.  Besides, it's still perpetuating racism.  It's still inequality.  No matter what light you see it in, it's still racism.  Just because you're discriminating agianst a white person doesn't make you any less of a BIGOT.
i don't punish entire races. but asians and other minorities have been by the majority. Blacks were looked upon as slaves. So were asians. There was the japanese internment camp and the chinese exclusion act. I've seen pictures of the colored only and white only bathrooms. Entire races have already been punished by a large majority vote in the past i'm sure.

Do you think that in just over 3 generations that all these attitudes will disappear from the family beliefs. I think that racism is often hereditary. Although i have to say that for a large number of people, discriminatory beliefs fade but i'm sure that for a large number it stays the same.
Did you even understand what my argument was about? It's about reverse racism. Reverse racism punishes entire races. I didn't say you do.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 13 2002, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 13 2002, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Nov 13 2002, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 12 2002, 09:12 PM
My idea about reverse racism is, though, that it's not fair to punish an entire race for something that only the racist extremists have done. Ex: It wouldn't be fair to those peaceful white people who AREN'T involved in the KKK or whatnot to allow ALL black people (not only just the ones who had shit done to them) to go out and burn the houses down of all the whites. Okay, kind of a radical example, but do you see what I'm getting at? Not ALL minorities have been totally discriminated against and not ALL majorities have done the discriminating. So it's not fair. Besides, it's still perpetuating racism. It's still inequality. No matter what light you see it in, it's still racism. Just because you're discriminating agianst a white person doesn't make you any less of a BIGOT.
i don't punish entire races. but asians and other minorities have been by the majority. Blacks were looked upon as slaves. So were asians. There was the japanese internment camp and the chinese exclusion act. I've seen pictures of the colored only and white only bathrooms. Entire races have already been punished by a large majority vote in the past i'm sure.

Do you think that in just over 3 generations that all these attitudes will disappear from the family beliefs. I think that racism is often hereditary. Although i have to say that for a large number of people, discriminatory beliefs fade but i'm sure that for a large number it stays the same.
Did you even understand what my argument was about? It's about reverse racism. Reverse racism punishes entire races. I didn't say you do.
Chairmanmah considers himself a bit of a militant....(I consider myself such, somewhat)...

So, what he is saying--if I'm correct--is that because he feels a certain "animosity" toward Whites (due to history and even today) he shouldn't be labeled as a "reverse-racist"...

I believe he understood your argument, angel... ;)
It's okay to FEEL an animosity or whatnot. Shit like that happens to everybody. Hell, I feel a certain animosity towards some races (ASIANS INCLUDED!). Actually, not races, more like... "groups" (i.e. candy ravers, "typcal" asians, cheerleaders) ... Either way, it's NOT okay to ACT on it.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 13 2002, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 13 2002, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Nov 13 2002, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 12 2002, 09:12 PM
My idea about reverse racism is, though, that it's not fair to punish an entire race for something that only the racist extremists have done. Ex: It wouldn't be fair to those peaceful white people who AREN'T involved in the KKK or whatnot to allow ALL black people (not only just the ones who had shit done to them) to go out and burn the houses down of all the whites. Okay, kind of a radical example, but do you see what I'm getting at? Not ALL minorities have been totally discriminated against and not ALL majorities have done the discriminating. So it's not fair. Besides, it's still perpetuating racism. It's still inequality. No matter what light you see it in, it's still racism. Just because you're discriminating agianst a white person doesn't make you any less of a BIGOT.
i don't punish entire races. but asians and other minorities have been by the majority. Blacks were looked upon as slaves. So were asians. There was the japanese internment camp and the chinese exclusion act. I've seen pictures of the colored only and white only bathrooms. Entire races have already been punished by a large majority vote in the past i'm sure.

Do you think that in just over 3 generations that all these attitudes will disappear from the family beliefs. I think that racism is often hereditary. Although i have to say that for a large number of people, discriminatory beliefs fade but i'm sure that for a large number it stays the same.
Did you even understand what my argument was about? It's about reverse racism. Reverse racism punishes entire races. I didn't say you do.
Chairmanmah considers himself a bit of a militant....(I consider myself such, somewhat)...

So, what he is saying--if I'm correct--is that because he feels a certain "animosity" toward Whites (due to history and even today) he shouldn't be labeled as a "reverse-racist"...

I believe he understood your argument, angel... ;)
i think the willingness to bring bloodshed to others and myself for my beliefs makes me militant.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 13 2002, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 13 2002, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 13 2002, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 13 2002, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Nov 13 2002, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 12 2002, 09:12 PM
My idea about reverse racism is, though, that it's not fair to punish an entire race for something that only the racist extremists have done. Ex: It wouldn't be fair to those peaceful white people who AREN'T involved in the KKK or whatnot to allow ALL black people (not only just the ones who had shit done to them) to go out and burn the houses down of all the whites. Okay, kind of a radical example, but do you see what I'm getting at? Not ALL minorities have been totally discriminated against and not ALL majorities have done the discriminating. So it's not fair. Besides, it's still perpetuating racism. It's still inequality. No matter what light you see it in, it's still racism. Just because you're discriminating agianst a white person doesn't make you any less of a BIGOT.
i don't punish entire races. but asians and other minorities have been by the majority. Blacks were looked upon as slaves. So were asians. There was the japanese internment camp and the chinese exclusion act. I've seen pictures of the colored only and white only bathrooms. Entire races have already been punished by a large majority vote in the past i'm sure.

Do you think that in just over 3 generations that all these attitudes will disappear from the family beliefs. I think that racism is often hereditary. Although i have to say that for a large number of people, discriminatory beliefs fade but i'm sure that for a large number it stays the same.
Did you even understand what my argument was about? It's about reverse racism. Reverse racism punishes entire races. I didn't say you do.
Chairmanmah considers himself a bit of a militant....(I consider myself such, somewhat)...

So, what he is saying--if I'm correct--is that because he feels a certain "animosity" toward Whites (due to history and even today) he shouldn't be labeled as a "reverse-racist"...

I believe he understood your argument, angel... ;)
It's okay to FEEL an animosity or whatnot. Shit like that happens to everybody. Hell, I feel a certain animosity towards some races (ASIANS INCLUDED!). Actually, not races, more like... "groups" (i.e. candy ravers, "typcal" asians, cheerleaders) ... Either way, it's NOT okay to ACT on it.
Ah, but it is okay...(not in a violent manner)...

Some have done it recently with the Halloween costume that was deemed racist...(and currently with the Anna Guo case)...
That wasn't acting on animosity against white people. That was acting out against something that you deemed offesnsive. Do you see the difference? Acting out on animosity against white people is something that's more unprovoked. And with the costume thing, you weren't acting out against a race. You were protesting a product. Huge difference.

[angel nympho]

Um... I'm not quite clear on what you're trying to say. Are you saying that acting on feelings of animosity against an entire race are okay?!? 'Cuz I don't think that's true. And I don't think standing up against what you believe to be racist is the same thing as acting on your animosity towards other races....... :confused:

[muscat gummy]

i believe the root of the argument here is this:


angel nympho thinks on an individual level: single people commit racism, anti-racism, etc. and therefore the entire group, ethnicity or race (however you want to term it) cannot be blamed.

the rest of us think of racism as operating on a social level. it is a societal problem, not an individual choice. people are racist because they are socialized to be racist.


hence, when i say "i hate white people," and i do to a certain extent, i believe that is a totally ok statement without making me racist. and i can have plenty of white friends and date a white girl without being contradictory. because what i am hating is the "white institution," the "mass" of "white people" who perpetuate racism on a SOCIAL level. this has nothing to do with personal interaction between me and the white folk.


bah, i'd be able to explain myself much better if i had more time, more desire and being able to just SAY it out. but i hope people get what i'm saying.

[deez nuts]

This thread only proves that Angel is not the only one bitter but the only one real enuff to acknowledge her feelings and bring it to the table.

OMG 6 Pages! And numerous attempts to psychoanalyze her and the $10,000 question? **drumroll please?**

Angel are you still bitter? :D

[kimpossible]

It was a good rant. Clear opinion and statement. Maybe she could turn some of it into term paper.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 12 2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 13 2002, 04:21 AM

That wasn't acting on animosity against white people. That was acting out against something that you deemed offesnsive. Do you see the difference? Acting out on animosity against white people is something that's more unprovoked. And with the costume thing, you weren't acting out against a race. You were protesting a product. Huge difference.
Not entirely...

Abercrombie and Fitch isn't run by Blacks...or Mexicans...or Asians...

The Halloween costume wasn't created by Blacks...or Mexicans...or Asians...(although, I believe an Asian had some part in the creation? Or was that the A & F shirts)...

If someone is to create something, I would think using the brain to realize if that product is going to be offensive (ie, racist) might have led the marketing department to rethink matters...

It's almost like those caricatures of "Blacks" that you see on some lawns in pre-dominantly White areas...

---------------------------------------

True, it wasn' t acting on animosity against White people...it was speaking out on the racism perpetuated by the few Whites who took part in that ...

--------------------------------------

Moreover, those "unprovoked" acts of animosity I see and hear majority from Whites...(bombing of children in Birmingham, Alabama, violence against Jews in the South--even today, justices that are partial to Caucasians...)

Those "few" are a great many...
i'd have to agree with angel on this one. to think that you're acting out against white people as a whole would be assuming that all white people would have produced racist materials like A&F and Disguise.com. i don't believe that.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Nov 13 2002, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 13 2002, 04:21 AM

That wasn't acting on animosity against white people. That was acting out against something that you deemed offesnsive. Do you see the difference? Acting out on animosity against white people is something that's more unprovoked. And with the costume thing, you weren't acting out against a race. You were protesting a product. Huge difference.
Not entirely...

Abercrombie and Fitch isn't run by Blacks...or Mexicans...or Asians...

The Halloween costume wasn't created by Blacks...or Mexicans...or Asians...(although, I believe an Asian had some part in the creation? Or was that the A & F shirts)...

If someone is to create something, I would think using the brain to realize if that product is going to be offensive (ie, racist) might have led the marketing department to rethink matters...

It's almost like those caricatures of "Blacks" that you see on some lawns in pre-dominantly White areas...

---------------------------------------

True, it wasn' t acting on animosity against White people...it was speaking out on the racism perpetuated by the few Whites who took part in that ...

--------------------------------------

Moreover, those "unprovoked" acts of animosity I see and hear majority from Whites...(bombing of children in Birmingham, Alabama, violence against Jews in the South--even today, justices that are partial to Caucasians...)

Those "few" are a great many...
Ok, does anybody else think that was exactly what IIII was trying to say????

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Nov 13 2002, 03:16 PM
This thread only proves that Angel is not the only one bitter but the only one real enuff to acknowledge her feelings and bring it to the table.

OMG 6 Pages! And numerous attempts to psychoanalyze her and the $10,000 question? **drumroll please?**

Angel are you still bitter?  :D
Heck yeah, I am. But now I can see a little better as to WHY. Before, I was kinda confused.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by muscat gummy@Nov 13 2002, 06:32 AM
i believe the root of the argument here is this:


angel nympho thinks on an individual level: single people commit racism, anti-racism, etc. and therefore the entire group, ethnicity or race (however you want to term it) cannot be blamed.

the rest of us think of racism as operating on a social level. it is a societal problem, not an individual choice. people are racist because they are socialized to be racist.


hence, when i say "i hate white people," and i do to a certain extent, i believe that is a totally ok statement without making me racist. and i can have plenty of white friends and date a white girl without being contradictory. because what i am hating is the "white institution," the "mass" of "white people" who perpetuate racism on a SOCIAL level. this has nothing to do with personal interaction between me and the white folk.


bah, i'd be able to explain myself much better if i had more time, more desire and being able to just SAY it out. but i hope people get what i'm saying.
YES, that is what I'm saying. I can kinda see what you're saying. But what bothers me is that some people take what you're saying a few steps further. They think non-Asian is EVIL. Some think that anything non-Asian is ANTI-Asian. It's incredibly annoying. Especially because I'm usually pointed out and seen as "non-Asian."

[kitty]

Uhm... Angel... how're you pointed out as "non-Asian"...?
:confused:

And I agree with you. Even though it's perfectly natural for someone to harbour animousity towards white majority, a lot of people take it too far. Disguise.com is a corporation, and even though you can blame mass mainstream society as an entity for helping foster racism, you can't hate VERY white person you meet for the Kung Fool, like "YOU did this to me...."

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Nov 13 2002, 06:52 PM
Uhm... Angel... how're you pointed out as "non-Asian"...?
:confused:

And I agree with you. Even though it's perfectly natural for someone to harbour animousity towards white majority, a lot of people take it too far. Disguise.com is a corporation, and even though you can blame mass mainstream society as an entity for helping foster racism, you can't hate VERY white person you meet for the Kung Fool, like "YOU did this to me...."
I'm not "Asian enough" for most people. It's pretty obvious when I'm hanging out with an "Asian" group (you know, the import-driving, cigarette-smoking, kimchee-squatting type...) that I'm seen as an outsider. People make a habit of telling me to stop pretending I'm white for a day.

[kitty]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 13 2002, 11:40 PM

I'm not "Asian enough" for most people. It's pretty obvious when I'm hanging out with an "Asian" group (you know, the import-driving, cigarette-smoking, kimchee-squatting type...) that I'm seen as an outsider. People make a habit of telling me to stop pretending I'm white for a day.
Fuck that. You're Asian because of the way you're born. Tell them to fuckin' deal.

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 13 2002, 03:40 PM
I'm not "Asian enough" for most people. It's pretty obvious when I'm hanging out with an "Asian" group (you know, the import-driving, cigarette-smoking, kimchee-squatting type...) that I'm seen as an outsider. People make a habit of telling me to stop pretending I'm white for a day.
What the flying F?!!! Damnit, I agree with kittygirl, if they believe that you're pretending to be white, then wtf do they actually know about you? Fighting a cause, not fighting a cause, support and all of this other shit, should not factor in about race identity. Nor should your personality. Who the fuck cares about being what skin color, or what you are or aren't. To have to prove that you are "asian" in that group's eyes just implies that you must be a cookie cutter type of person they are to fit in. I believe I have reason to say this, because I used to hang with the so-called "asian" crowd in my high school too. But because I listened to alternative music, rather than asian pop made me the friggin' outsider. And they would point at other things too. But did they notice I practice Chinese traditions? No, because they were very quick to point out the things they wouldn't do. Well fuck that shit. I ended up breaking out of the group and I'm a little bitter, but happier because of it. I really don't need people telling me what's not asian about myself, as long as I belive I am asian.

So if they can't deal like Kitty said, then give them proper sign language with the big ol' F U, and tell them to piss off. Acceptance should be the quality that keeps you in the group. Not fucking bigotry.

[angel nympho]

I know. Most people who say that kinda bullshit are the ones who don't really know me. So it tends to sorta roll off my back. It's more annoying than hurtful. But I think it's fair to say that, in the Asian-American community, things like that aren't all that uncommon. Not to say that they're like... COMMONPLACE, but they're not THAT unusual.