Divorce Vs. Staying in a loveless marriage with kids.

[mrcfo]

Say you're in a 6 year old marriage, early 30s with 2 kids aged between 2 and 4. The marriage is dead, not because either of you cheated, but the love is simply not there anymore and there is nothing that either of you can restore it. In this case, (assuming your husband is willing to live a sexless and loveless marriage with you until the kid grows up or get a divorce, ok theretically the first part wouldnt work, but just for arguments sake he does) and the decision is totally up to you, which path would you take and why?

[LaiSteve66]

Damn, I didn't realize this was the women's forum sorry.

[moJo]

a loveless/sexless marriage will takes its toll on both parties as well as the kids. you might not think it'll fuck up the kids, but chances are, it will. kids can see right through the fake-and-strained marriage. i am all for divorce in that situation as long as it's amicable.

[mrcfo]

a loveless/sexless marriage will takes its toll on both parties as well as the kids. you might not think it'll fuck up the kids, but chances are, it will. kids can see right through the fake-and-strained marriage. i am all for divorce in that situation as long as it's amicable.

Isn't this the older generation of Asian "married" couples do though? My parents have a friend who basically are only married in name only and just for their 12 year old sons sake are they not getting divorced.

Furthermore, a distant great uncle in Vietnam who is approaching 89, his wife is 88, has lived together for over 25 years without speaking to each other and they have 6 kids, 14 grandchildren and 4 great grandchildren.

I suppose its the cultural difference and stigma and especially for women, no potential candidates in future if there is a divorce

[moser]

Isn't this the older generation of Asian "married" couples do though? ...I suppose its the cultural difference and stigma and especially for women, no potential candidates in future if there is a divorce

It seems like the attitude towards divorce is changing though, at least for Asians in the US. Sample size notwithstanding, I know of four divorced women who had kids; although only one of them remarried, the women and kids all seem to be doing ok, if not better than the kids from the dysfunctional marriages. For some reason after the divorce the fathers disappeared.

[Anaestacia]

One one hand, staying in the marriage would make things a lot easier in terms of having the children with you 365 days a year. With a divorce you'll have to share them and go for days without seeing your children, with shared custody.

Yet if you separate now at ages 2 and 4, chances are the children will grow up most of their lives not as traumatized as opposed to if they're older. When they're older they can see the strained relationship much more clearly, and become a lot more hurt seeing their family tearing apart.

I'm not sure about a loveless marriage with the "love simply not being there anymore". I don't buy it for one second. Perhaps it's just me? But there are specific reasons why I fall in love with someone. I know exactly why I love them, when and how, the things they do or what they say, their interests, their character and every flaw.

To say that to wake up one day with absolutely nothing, no romantic love left, is a little questionable in itself. Surely one of you felt something slipping months ago. Both didn't care to remediate. Why? Were both so caught up in other aspects of their lives to just eventually stop noticing each other? How?

I have drifted apart from exes in the past but they were because of specific reasons, sometimes even catalysts. But there have always been reasons and along each step there was always a decision. I'm bothered more that the marriage apparently upped and became "loveless". Children will be okay as long as they're nurtured with love, respect and discipline. If it means a divorce, so be it. But I sure as hell would not give up without a clear reason or an agreement of how and why so and so did not work out in the end.

[pseudohmong]

Say you're in a 6 year old marriage, early 30s with 2 kids aged between 2 and 4. The marriage is dead, not because either of you cheated, but the love is simply not there anymore and there is nothing that either of you can restore it. In this case, (assuming your husband is willing to live a sexless and loveless marriage with you until the kid grows up or get a divorce, ok theretically the first part wouldnt work, but just for arguments sake he does) and the decision is totally up to you, which path would you take and why?

I have a lot of married friends so I've known plenty of people who have been in a similar situation. IMHO, too many people have unrealistic expectations. They expect bombs and fireworks to go off every day and that's not how life is. Once you've been together for a long time, especially if you are married or living together, things die down. You don't get as excited anymore when you hear his voice, you don't want to have sex as often, you need some space from him, you may even find him less attractive, etc. That's normal. I don't know what the problem is because you provided little information but from what I've seen of friends who are in that situation, sometimes the problem is their unrealistic expectations. They also become busy with the routines in life...work and raising their children. They don't spend much time alone together and after a while, it becomes a marriage of convenience. My suggestion is to go for martial counseling and if that does not work, then you should go your own ways. Divorce is a horrible thing but you are setting a negative example for your kids because they may grow up believing that is what a marriage should be like.

My friends who have left their husband or wife because they felt the love was not there anymore usually end up regretting it. Why? Because they felt there was a lot they could've done to try and salvage their marriage and it was not as bad as they thought it was. So please think things through before taking drastic measures. You should always weigh the pros and cons.

[applehead]

what do you mean by loveless?
no sparks?

[jongeh]

my parents got a divorce when i was 15. i must say, at first, i was pretty upset by it. however, i didn't realize until it was no longer happening how much my parents' tension had affected me. they tried things before the divorce and stayed married much longer than they wanted for me and my brother's sake, but i really wish they would've just done it when they wanted. many vacations and such were pretty depressing because of their incessant arguing. after they divorced, they were both happier, things were quieter, i was happier. end of story.

[Faithless]

what do you mean by loveless?
no sparks?
No affection. No kind words. No hugging. Arguments. Don't even want to be in the same bed with the person. :frown:

Knowing how divorce affects kids, it's hard to think of doing that to them.

Now, if the other person is a loon, then you got to think about your sanity and that of the kids' as well.

I used to think that affairs were bad, but, you know ...

[Gordman]

This is an interesting topic, it really can put you in difficulty. I think we can find the right answer to this poll only in couples whit kids. Whatever decision you make, you end up suffering, you just have take the decision that makes less people suffer specially if we talk about kids. They are sensitive and have a totally different vision over things this is why divorce impact is much higher for them. I guess the only way to get out of this mess is to contact a marriage counselor (http://www.familiesonlinemagazine.com/couples/Marriage_Counseling.html) and start a couple therapy, it could make you overcome these hard moments.

[Kristen]

I work at a family law firm and see people facing decisions like this every day.

personally, i would opt to dissolve the marriage as waiting 15 years or more is rather long, even for the sake of the kids. I am kinda an absolute person so....

Kris

[kimpossible]

I'd stay in the marriage. Even if it eventually meant living apart and letting him have a separate life when we're older.

[VV o n g B a]

I'd stay in the marriage. Even if it eventually meant living apart and letting him have a separate life when we're older.even if he started fathering children w/ another woman which would split ur kids' inheretance?

[kimpossible]

That's a separate hypothetical. Loveless marriage, as the OP questioned, I'd stay. To answer yours, no. Any situation that put my child at risk, no.

[cloudzero]

i think saying "staying together would be hard on the kids" is an excuse. theres always a way to make it work. afterall, it worked in the beginning didn't it? i think its a matter of will power and the ability to swallow your pride. ppl just don't want to tell themselves "they don't love their kids THAT much" to try to make it work

[eos]

i feel my mom's decision to stay married until my sister and i were older was a tough yet good choice. at the time she told us, of course it sucked and we were pissed. however, my mom sacrificed a lot and went through so much shit for us that our momentary discomfort paled in comparison.

[KenTsui]

emotional satisfaction vs. social responsibility

good luck

[AngryABCGirl]

emotional satisfaction vs. social responsibility

good luck

I wouldn't say it's your social responsibility to stay in a bad marriage, at all.

[kimpossible]

Well, you have to consider that lifespan, health and quality of life are unknowns. If you expect to have full health and lifespan I guess it would be daunting to be 25-35 and have another 50 years to go.

[kasia]

divorce because i want my kids to be ableto grow up in a loving environment and be able to witness what a healthy marriage should be like. just because you divorce doesn't mean that the kids need to lose either parent. you can both agree to live in close proximity to one another. you can even agree to have a "family" dinner once a week or something. you can be friends with your former spouse - especially because you both have at least one thing in common - your love for your kids. and then you will both have the freedom to date and eventually be in a good relationship, and your kids could potentially have two sets of loving parents.

but i guess there's also the question of why there are no sparks in the marriage. is it just bc one party is fickle and always wanting something new? or is it because both parties really can't stand one another and are just resolving to be civil?

[Siegfried]

There's no need to stay in a marriage or relationship that isn't working. As painful as it is, divorce is the better option. I had to end my relationship because I was worried about how the coldness and arguing would have affected my son. I don't see him much because the mother took him back to the Philippines with her.

[BeTheReds]

It depends. If the woman is all into being petty and proving me wrong at every three seconds, doesn't want to be civil, and tries to turn the kids against me, then fuck her... Keep custody of the kids tho..

[Broomer]

I know this is the chicks area but since I've had a little bit of experience in this area, so I'm going to add my five cents.

There are several things to consider:

Your kids: if the two of you love the kids enough to work out a working arrangement, then there is no issue there. The problem is if you guys end up trying to you them in a game of chess, in which case, that's really not on.

Your husband: Don't know what the situation is, but if you're hurting, on some level so is he.

YOU: The most important thing here. YOU. At the end of the day, if you're not happy and can't function as an individual at your optimum, then you're doing yourself and your kids a dis-service. Just bear in mind it's your life here as well and if you can't work things out with your hubby and you're either fighting or the time, or just mindless zombies, then there's no point to it. You'll just be wasting time instead of living your life.

At the end of the day, as someone once said to me (it was wise words at the time, just the in the wrong context): It's your life too.

Ka.

[timada]

The problem is that many children of divorced parents believe they are the reason their mom and dad got divorced. They think that if only they had behaved better, gotten better grades, or helped more around the house, the divorce wouldn't have happened. But this isn't true. Divorce is between moms and dads only! So I think parents should think about their children, and try to save the marriage.

[Arex]

^ Those kids are dumb. j/k (sort of).

Divorce is between the moms and dads. That's why it's important that they make it clear to their children that is the case if/when parents decide to end a marriage. But I think it's a bit overly simplistic to say that parents should generally try to save their marriage for their kids' sake. Saving a marriage isn't necessarily what's best for the children, nor is it what all children necessarily want. It really depends on the parents' relationship, and the children's level of maturity.

My parents finally divorced after I left for college, but I thought they should have separated about ten years prior to that. Then we wouldn't have been exposed to their constant yelling matches and my mom's going through life in a depressed state. That's, IMHO, worse for a child than having to deal with a divorce. Even in elementary school, I knew I'd rather have two happy-but-separate parents, than two married-but-miserable ones.

[Sunflare]

My parents finally divorced after I left for college, but I thought they should have separated about ten years prior to that. Then we wouldn't have been exposed to their constant yelling matches and my mom's going through life in a depressed state. That's, IMHO, worse for a child than having to deal with a divorce. Even in elementary school, I knew I'd rather have two happy-but-separate parents, than two married-but-miserable ones.

I'm sorry to hear you had to go through that with your mom and dad, Arex. I can relate, because I went through the same thing. My parents divorced while I was still in high school and the breakup caused alot of emotional and financial woes for the entire immediate family.

During those years I was a fucking wild child. Always getting in trouble with the cops, getting into fights, getting drunk or high all the damn time, then coming home to a dysfunctional family, mom and dad cussing each other out and hitting each other. Oh forget it. It was a nightmare.

[Broomer]

The problem is that many children of divorced parents believe they are the reason their mom and dad got divorced. They think that if only they had behaved better, gotten better grades, or helped more around the house, the divorce wouldn't have happened. But this isn't true. Divorce is between moms and dads only! So I think parents should think about their children, and try to save the marriage.

I don't totally agree with that. Parents who loved their kids would know full well to re-inforce the fact to their kids that the break down of the marriage has nothing to do with them.

It could be even worst if the parents stayed together, being miserable, and negatively effect their kids that well.

Having said that, I agree that if there is still some love there, then the parents should try and work things out.

Ka.

[kimpossible]

I would caution against the assumption that divorce invariably, or even usually, leads to happier separate lives with no further strife between parents and no further stress on minor children. You cannot overlook the difference of resolving custody of children versus simply ending a marriage. The idea that the parental fights and depression stop once a divorce and ensuing court battles starts is a naive ideal that does not consider financial ruin, communication, lack of shared goals, annihilation of stability and so on.

Your mothers may be depressed, your fathers may be emotionally absent and that might make it a bit of a bummer for you. But what mom is doing is sacrificing herself and her individual wants to put your stability above all else. Monday morning quarterbacking your parents' decision to continue to run the household until you're old enough, strong enough, successful enough and mature enough to not subject you to divorce bullshit and ensuing financial woes in favor of some post-divorce pipedream that rarely occurs in reality is an exercise in "grass is greener".

I agree that separate and happier parenting is better than depressed, fighting but together. But what often happens when the divorce occurs before the children net benefit from the stability to make it through college and able to survive on their own is separate, depressed and fighting as hard as ever, just now with lawyers and courts added in. And a hell of a lot poorer.

Obviously, no one would want to stay in an abusive situation of any sort. Any sort, but the original question was "loveless" which is closer to generally unhappy. Not an ideal situation but to claim divorce makes it all better I have to ask what exactly leads you to believe that? And if your idea of marriage is "until a period of not so happy" do we part, why get married?

[tommyhtown]

Not that I support the idea of easily giving up on marriage, all I know is that it wasn't fun for me when my parents were fighting before their divorce. It was pretty shitty when told by one parent the wrongs one of the other. I am sure it wasn't easy for them either. No judgement on them. They are only humans. I sure have made my fair share of mistakes in my past relationships.

IAnd if your idea of marriage is "until a period of not so happy" do we part, why get married?

Exactly ... why get married? May be fear of growing old and dying alone? It is not about love and happiness.

[Arex]

Good points all around, Kim. Of course, I can only speak from my own experience where my parents had an amicable divorce without any custody issues (my little brother was still in high school at the time), and each was financially stable. Probably as smooth a divorce as one could hope for. To this day, my parents remain close. And my mom acknowledges that, despite having been married for 20+ years and having three kids together, they are better off as friends than as a couple. I realize that this is not always the case.

But you're right, in many instances, a loveless marriage may be better than the alternative. And a divorce is definitely something not to be taken lightly, particularly if children are involved. It really depends on the circumstances of those involved. In my parents case, I think they definitely made the right decision. Can't say I would necessarily end the marriage under the original poster's circumstances though.

[aeri]

haven't thought about marriage yet. but i'm banking on when kids are involved, especially young ones, they're so easily influenced equally by what's said and not said.

i don't think you can be fully prepared on what a divorce or a blatantly unhappy marriage can affect the children. kids always absorb more than parents can realize i think.

i'm not sure what i'd choose. it's hard enough between two people in a failed relationship, let alone involving children. hopefully if the relationship is to fail, we'd be able to see the big picture and look beyond the relationship between just us, and consider the kids.

i dunno if that's wishful thinking.

but it's important to be self aware. because the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[deez nuts]

I like choice C. Staying married but in an open marriage. You stay married and put up a front for the kids and you get to see other people. Divorce is also costly. Win-win situation for all sides.

I know a few married couples with a kid or kids that have this arrangement. It actually works pretty well.

[kimpossible]

Good points all around, Kim. Of course, I can only speak from my own experience where my parents had an amicable divorce without any custody issues (my little brother was still in high school at the time), and each was financially stable. Probably as smooth a divorce as one could hope for. To this day, my parents remain close. And my mom acknowledges that, despite having been married for 20+ years and having three kids together, they are better off as friends than as a couple. I realize that this is not always the case.

But you're right, in many instances, a loveless marriage may be better than the alternative. And a divorce is definitely something not to be taken lightly, particularly if children are involved. It really depends on the circumstances of those involved. In my parents case, I think they definitely made the right decision. Can't say I would necessarily end the marriage under the original poster's circumstances though.

*shrug* Maybe. I definitely have a bug up my ass about this today. Prolly because I'm a parent now and more defensive/judgmental.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

I like choice C. Staying married but in an open marriage. You stay married and put up a front for the kids and you get to see other people. Divorce is also costly. Win-win situation for all sides.

I know a few married couples with a kid or kids that have this arrangement. It actually works pretty well.

Are these friends resigned to having their options for "long term" partners limited? This arrangement sounds fine as long as you anticipate being able to engage in temporary liasons throughout your child's minority. Most lovers are not going to stick around that long unless there's at least the prospect of a legal marriage.

Plus, I suspect it takes a minimally functional couple to be able to cohabitate with an ex-spouse. Otherwise, you're not living under the same roof and your "front for the kids" falls apart.

[kasia]

Divorce is also costly.

not necessarily. it depends on how many assets you have and whether you married an unreasonable person or not. say you did marry a major pain, the options would then be a) divorce her and risk losing half your assets or more, b) stay with her even though you probably won't be able to stand the sight of her gold-digging ass on a daily basis. again, hardly a healthy environment for the kids.

unless you're referring to costs like having to sell the house and no longer having the benefit of a dual income. even then, assuming all other options have been exhausted, e.g., excessive counseling, actual effort and patience, etc. etc., if the marriage cannot be saved and both parties are truly unhappy, i think this outweighs the financial advantages of staying. the daily angst, hatred and just overall unhappiness won't be worth it. i guess, if both parties actually like each other as friends and resolve to be friends, it can work. but i also can't imagine how having an open marriage would not result in one person being hurt. it inevitably does, no? it's like FTF's. it's always one party who will ultimately end up hurt.

i'm also having trouble reconciling the opinions in this thread with the one where everyone was criticizing the author for advocating settling with mr. good enough. people were insulted by her insinuation that it was okay to be with someone who is not your true love, with whom you do not share this crazy chemistry - and yet in this thread, where the title makes clear that the marriage is loveless, some are so opposed to divorce.