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View Full Version : exhaust quality rant.


wylin
07-15-2002, 09:23 AM
Is it me or most of the exhausts offered in or to the united states are lower quality refecting that american (atleast import) enthusiasts are cheap. my friend was going greddy is the shit, its the best exhaust ever made yada yada...im like dude i blew one of those up in 2 weeks boosting on my SR20det.

heres why:

In america brands such as Apex-i, Greddy, 5zigen, tanabe, hks are considered to be the highend. but in japan (sans HKS) they are considered low-medium end exhaust products.

Most exhaust is consturcted of mild steel thats been alluminized (coated w/ heat material) or has been painted a black heat coating and a stainless muffler that has alot of glass packing for a quiet exhaust note. The same can be said for most of Greddys,HKS's, Apex-i, 5zigens, Tanabe (orginal) lines targeted at the enthusiast. the mild steel gets beat up by heat and rust because it isnt stainless steel and will eventually wear out in 2-3 years. heres what i seen, Apex-i exhausts break sumtimes on the muffler can weld, HKS rust on the piping, Greddys rust on the piping and muffler packing blows out, tanabe same as greddy, 5zigen rusts and sumtimes resonator falls off (chris's 240sx 60mm prototype). Im not gonna comment on the taiwanese B-C grade brands that permiate the riceboy market. Just to be honest, alot of these "highend japanese "units are made in taiwan RSR and others have their jig's/piping made in taiwan and then they just do the final welding/ attach muffler...

Using higher quality stainless steel material or titanium will improve the life of the unit only if it has nice welds. But overall stainless exhaust is the best for corossion protection.
In japan theres uprated japanese models of existing units such as the Apex-i n1, HKS hiper that arent sold in america officially, i mean we only get the cheapo models of these lines. What bothers me is that theres lotsa stuff thats highquality brands such as Ganador, Fujitsubo, GP sports that american enthusiasts have been denied...and they think its only those few brands...deprived! and when i hear sumone swear by our american ghetto brands it makes me wanna smack em...especially if its sum ghetto one like hyper R1, Tsudo or weapon R. So buy nice stuff so we can all have nice stuff. !

end rant bored!

[img:762aad45ea]http://www.hksusa.com/images_products/L_1157.jpg[/img:762aad45ea]

HKS titanium/carbon exhaust one of my favorites and light!

Deeguy
07-15-2002, 10:56 AM
im on my 2nd exhaust in just under 4 years... had a 5 Zigen

conclusion = Sucks Ass

now have an Apex-i RS

conclusion = its hasn't rusted off yet, so not so sucky

i noticed that things dont rust that quickly in california... the brands i mentioned above (expecially 5 zigen) rust incredibly quickly if you live in some what humid areas. btw, my 5 zigen had a 1 year warranty... it rusted off the car on day 364...

-ends

mrazntre
07-16-2002, 12:24 AM
HKS... since 1990...


still working okay.


get a borla or ultraflow with custom mandrel bent pipes. same, if not higher flow.

and a whole lot cheaper! so who cares if it rusts to shit in a few years.

wylin
07-16-2002, 08:41 AM
[quote:76cc5d0973="mrazntre"]HKS... since 1990...


still working okay.


get a borla or ultraflow with custom mandrel bent pipes. same, if not higher flow.

and a whole lot cheaper! so who cares if it rusts to shit in a few years.[/quote:76cc5d0973]

cheapo exhaust u pay a price tho, its louder and find a shop that will actually mandrel bend is difficult...most kids w/ honda and custom exhaust have crimp bent pipes. why pay 200-300 bux every 2 years when u can buy sum good japanese shit like a 500-600$ Stainless RSR or HKS 25th aniversary and it will last 5 years same issue, plus u can fit a silencer (off the shelf) and make it not so loud.

mrazntre
07-18-2002, 10:43 PM
that's why you open up the yellow pages and do some research for a mandrel bender shop.

thos exhausts last longer than 2 yrs, if you don't get the $40 2" shit muffler. i'm talking about the $100-$150 2.5"-3" borla's and ultraflow's. aluminized steel will last pretty long..depending on the situation/location...etc. ~5+ yrs.

get a bigger tip, and you can fit the silencer also.

wylin
07-25-2002, 09:07 AM
[quote:99337132bc="mrazntre"]that's why you open up the yellow pages and do some research for a mandrel bender shop.

thos exhausts last longer than 2 yrs, if you don't get the $40 2" shit muffler. i'm talking about the $100-$150 2.5"-3" borla's and ultraflow's. aluminized steel will last pretty long..depending on the situation/location...etc. ~5+ yrs.

get a bigger tip, and you can fit the silencer also.[/quote:99337132bc]

nah thats more for rice boys sy, most of them get mandrel bent dual n1 or dual muffler style systems and shove it on their honda civic or crx. Noi thanx i rather have sumthing designed and tuned for maximum power or ground clearence (sumthing my exhaust isnt designed for), plus yeh u are paying a premium for the name or what not...mostly ur getting raped by middle men and such since the japan sell for price is alot lower then america's. For example the apex-i n1 in america it lists for 590$ but in japan it can be found for 300$ range. basically apex-i japan sells the units to apex-i usa for 220$ same as it does any other dealer then apex-i usa adds mark up to 330-350$ sells it to sumwhere like dynamics and they add their mark up to it. sumtimes like w/ hks u get raped mainly by HKS usa and they add alot of mark up into their products...hiper 25th aniversary that i have lists for 780$ us but its cost is closer to 500$ and how much HKS usa gets it for is closer to 400$ and cost to make probs 150-200$ + shipping to whereever. =P

mrazntre
07-25-2002, 10:25 PM
i'm talking mainly boosted cars, so there's not much tuning you can do to achieve maximum performance. the higher end Japanese mfg's claim high performance and what not, but.... mazda did also claim their miata made 160hp... right? what i'm saying is that flow tests have proven that ultraflow outflowed HKS' (just barely) and pretty mch fucked up the other japanese mfg's. don't buy into the marketing, don't buy into the name. when you're going to be building boosted cars, these mfg's are not the only resource.

You can get the same type of performance, sometimes even better, if you go with the less "pretty" package.

btw: ricers don't even know what mandrel bent means, so there's no way they're getting 3" mandrel bent piping for their 1.6L civic. How stupid is that? And i'm not talking about going to some crappy muffler shop either. I'm talking about shops who have good reputations among car enthusiasts (not necessarily imports). A good welder can create a good custom fit exhaust system. Unless you're working on a header design, exhust systems are rather straightforward for turbo cars. Only 2 criteria, 1) 3" (big) mandrel bent pipe 2) minimal bends. That's all we're talking about in this certain (turbo) application. SC and N/A cars on the other hand have to have well-designed exhaust systems due to reliance on back pressure. There's some debate on this subject, however I found my answer when i ran open header... it's definitely less responsive and feels sluggish, plus the rumble on your ass isn't a pleasant feeling... For me, backpressure is not just a myth. When you're dealing with backpressure, that's when you need tuned exhausts, however.... think about it. An N/A ? how much more HP can it possibly make running n/a and still be streetable?!?!? those particular exhausts follow the same criteria as above, and sometimes with detrimental results. But do the mfg's care? nope. they're making money and everyone and their momma is saying "HKS this," "Apexi that." I do believe that craftsmanship and quality on the japanese mufflers are second to none, however the proper tuning and engineering is suspect in my opinion.