Asian Guys - Bad Rep Or Are We Really Pigs?

[SunWuKong]

Alright, I am realizing something quite alarming. I never realized it before, but many Asian girls think that Asian guys are out to find Asian women they can dominate, Asian women who will cook and clean, etc. The domestic female.

The problem is... I've never thought that this is what my fellow Asian guys want. I always felt that they want love and affection like normal.

So are we somehow getting a bad rep here? Or are we really such pigs?

This has also got me thinking - that if I can't see that my fellow Asian guys are like this, then maybe I'm not seeing this in myself. Maybe I actually want a domestic female and I don't even realize it? But really, that is not what I want at all, at least not on the surface.



Help me out here...

[tapestrybabe]

Me, I'm single and i live by myself-- I dont cook at all. I'm always ordering take out, or going out to eat. And its not that i dont know how, its just i'm tired when i get home, i dont want to deal with it, i'm just not in the mood..blah.. blah.. blah...And perhaps i would change my tune if i was actually in a relationship with someone.... Cuz it wouldn't be just cooking, but it would be doing something for my partner... to make him feel happy. But than again, i think i would expect my partner to pitch in, cook once in awhile also... cuz i see a relationship as a partnership thing... working as a team... and not just one person doing all the work.

Anyways, i've only been in one relationship all my life, and it was short term... and i never ended up cooking for him... but we always went out to eat... So, i guess that alleviated the burden of the both of us to cook for one another. But i just think this is how i feel... if an asian guy or any guy expects the female to do ALL the domestic work... that's just not right.. cuz once again, i see a relationship as a partnership thing.. working as a team...sharing responsibilities...

[SunWuKong]

but what do you think? is a domestic female what asian guys are looking for? many asian women are telling me this, and i never realized it...

[kasia]

well, i got that notion through the long conversations i had with some of the guys in my dorm and their buddies. all of them were from hong kong. because i hung out with them practically 24:7, they felt comfortable sharing their "real views" with me. they basically told me that they expected their future wives to do all of the cooking, laundry, etc., etc. they also told me that i would never find a husband because i didn't know how to cook, i talked too much, and i ate too much ice cream :(

another christian friend, also chinese told me that a woman's place is at home raising the family. he explained that God intended it that way. as evidence, he told me the story about how eve came from adam's rib.


...what a waste of an otherwise perfectly fine chinese girl i am. so they told me...ahi ahi (translation: tuna tuna)

...they're still my buddies though. i found them amusing.

[achtungbaby]

I think Asian guys are typically looking for a female who has all the fixings of an independent, educated and progressive woman...but who in practice, will be their mommies.

[SunWuKong]

[quote:64aa581cdb="kasia"]well, i got that notion through the long conversations i had with some of the guys in my dorm and their buddies. all of them were from hong kong. because i hung out with them practically 24:7, they felt comfortable sharing their "real views" with me. they basically told me that they expected their future wives to do all of the cooking, laundry, etc., etc. they also told me that i would never find a husband because i didn't know how to cook, i talked too much, and i ate too much ice cream :(

another christian friend, also chinese told me that a woman's place is at home raising the family. he explained that God intended it that way. as evidence, he told me the story about how eve came from adam's rib.


...what a waste of an otherwise perfectly fine chinese girl i am. so they told me...ahi ahi (translation: tuna tuna)

...they're still my buddies though. i found them amusing.[/quote:64aa581cdb]


well i was more referring to asian american guys though. i know how alot of hk guys are. but on the flip side, alot of hk women want to have their husbands support them financially and they not have to have a job. it's really a reciprocal thing over in hk. i mean don't get me wrong, there are plenty of very independent-minded women in hk. but most of them (at least, local hkers) in fact [i:64aa581cdb]like[/i:64aa581cdb] the idea of the domestic life - something which i found to be a bit of a turn-off, by the way, but unavoidable unfortunately. but as the 3rd wave feminist would say, that is their choice and all the more power to them.

but here in america, it's generally understood that asian american women do not want to be simply domestic. and i had thought that asian american men had more common sense so to respect their independence. but what i'm hearing from alot of asian american women is that we don't really have that common sense. :(

[tapestrybabe]

[quote:076f828aac="SunWuKung"]but what do you think? is a domestic female what asian guys are looking for? many asian women are telling me this, and i never realized it...[/quote:076f828aac]

i am not really sure. i grew up in a white household. my views on the traditional asian culture and the asian american male.. and their expectations are very limited. and where i live, i'm not very exposed to a lot of asian americans in the first place.

And well, if thats what a lot of asian american males do expect.. i guess i wont be able to make a suitable domestic housewife for them... cuz the way i see it.. i see a relationship as a partnership thing, shared responsibilities, that takes team work-- it means working together. And i'll be damned if i end up doing ALL the housework, ALL the time -- washing dishes, cooking, vacuuming, doing laundry... for myself and my partner...

But than again, every relationship is different. Like my aunt and uncle.. whenever i visit my aunt.. she's always the one that cooks, vacuums, does laundry. She's very domestic... and she enjoys it. And my uncle, he fixes things around the house... mowes the lawn, etc.. and so their responsibilities are kinda balanced... and they are happy within their roles...

But i guess i'm not that traditional... but than again, who knows how my tune will change when it comes to being domestic... if i ever experience anything long term...

[deez nuts]

Good post, monkey king. I think it's unfair to say this type of behavior is exclusive to Asian guys, it happens in all ethnicities. That being said and this post is aimed at Asian males, let's focus on the topic.

I think this type of behavior is more common amongst Asians from the old school and old world. I seen it more often in the, excuse the terms, fobs, jfk's, mit's and etc etc. Let's face it, Asia as a whole has not experienced a mass feminist movement, so culture and society plays a factor in this behavior.

I personally don't care what my significant other does, so long as she is happy and we get along (cliched? yes, but hey just being real). I think in most of my long term relationships I had, I cooked more and did my own laundry, if she has laundry to do when I am doing mine, I do her's too, no big deal. I just rather do things on my own. Awhile back my grandparents came over to the US to visit. My girlfriend at the time and me invited them over for dinner. When we were done, I went to do the dishes, They were shocked to see me do the dishes, while she sat there and talkd with them. Afterwards, when we were alone, they asked me about it. I just replied, well she did the cooking.

Overall, I just feel uncomfortable being catered to in that manner. I mean things such as cooking and cleaning if you want to do it, do it yourself and don't bitch while doing it. And if you don't want to do it, put it off till when you want to do it. No biggie.

[tapestrybabe]

[quote:fb265840fe="Chasiubao_Boy"]Overall, I just feel uncomfortable being catered to in that manner. I mean things such as cooking and cleaning if you want to do it, do it yourself and don't bitch while doing it. And if you don't want to do it, put it off till when you want to do it. No biggie.[/quote:fb265840fe]

You see, when it comes to my romantic side... theres a part of me that feels like i would like to be able to cater him. Be domestic and cook his favorite dish or something... you know that part of me.. wanting to please him... But i think i get to feeling very uptight when it comes to feeling like it should be a duty for me.... and acting like i have to do it outta being a dutiful little housewife... and because i'm a female, and thats my expected role that i should play...

[SunWuKong]

[quote:d1fcad19a4="Chasiubao_Boy"]I think this type of behavior is more common amongst Asians from the old school and old world. I seen it more often in the, excuse the terms, fobs, jfk's, mit's and etc etc. Let's face it, Asia as a whole has not experienced a mass feminist movement, so culture and society plays a factor in this behavior.
[/quote:d1fcad19a4]


i don't know, from the responses that i'm getting from asian women that i personally know, asian guys in this country has these expectations regardless of whether they're fobs or not. are we really that bad? or are asian women being trapped by our own stereotypes?

[kasia]

i haven't really felt that asian-american guys are "pigs". at least not more chauvanistic than, say, white males. truthfully, i've only seen that attitude with fobbier, more traditional guys--the ones who always want to pay for you when you go out, etc.

although, there is one exception. my personal belief is that korean american men dont' know how to cook. i think that every korean mom has done a good job of keeping her son out of the kitchen. blah blah blah. it is rather annoying.

[deez nuts]

I see where ya coming from tapestrybabe. But you're right, there is a difference between wanting to do something for a someone as opposed to that someone expecting you to do something. I just would feel uncomfortable if someone was dating was doing it on a daily basis out of obligatiion.

Monkeyking, I think it's a little of both. I mean it may be prevalent amongst your sample pool of Asian women. But I know Asian women who complain that their men aren't demanding of them enough as well as those that complain that their man are too needy and high maintenance. So I guess it's a matter of preference. I mean it's kind of unfair just because if you're an Asian woman and had a string of bad luck with Asian men and then label all of us as needy and domineering pigs. I can just as easily turn it around and say that Asian women are high maintenance in that they only care about name brand clothes, what job you have, how much you pull in anually and what car you drive. Just because I dated a few like that in my past, I don't say all Asian women are like that, as a whole.

[thaite]

Are you a member of this this website? (http://www.heartless-bitches.com) If yes, then email me, cuz you're my kind of chick.

[ChinaLama]

aiya! (or as we shanghainese people say, Ah-yoooooooooooooooooooo!) You guys are sounding all PC and stuff.

Ok, what I'm looking for in a woman is someone who will cook, clean, AND make good money (hopefully doing white collar sweatshop labor--i.e, a professional--but blue-collar sweatshop work is acceptable, too). But being a good Chinese patriarch, I will demand absolute control over household affairs, including bills, children's upbringing, traffic into and out of The Home and use of the remote control.

And I'm not a pig. I'm a monkey (Chinese zodiac) or a scorpion (Western zodiac). And monkeys are cunning and scorpions are vicious. I think that reflects very well in how I want to trick a woman into becoming my slave. :lol:

[SunWuKong]

[quote:8d826590b1="ChinaLama"]I will demand absolute control over household affairs, including bills, children's upbringing, traffic into and out of The Home and use of the remote control. [/quote:8d826590b1]


actually correct me if i'm wrong, i think in a traditional chinese patriarchal household, the husband would give a certain amount of money to the wife and she will then use this money to manage the household, which would include paying the bills. internal management like paying the bills were thought to be the woman's domain.

[thaite]

PC NOTHING! I WANNA CHICK WHO CAN KICK SOME ASS!

[ChinaLama]

re: SWK, I think that's a Western thing but I may be wrong; maybe it's BOTh a Western and Eastern thing. I guess if you're right, the commies have destroyed tradition in my home cuz my dad is pretty much the undisputed master of the household in everything. My mom plans vacations, i guess.

re: Buoywonder. I didn't say a chick can't kick ass. having a chick guard would be pretty sexy too. :D

[princess]

[quote:ba3f88dadb="buoywonder"]PC NOTHING! I WANNA CHICK WHO CAN KICK SOME ASS![/quote:ba3f88dadb]

*claps* yay. finally. i know too many guys who like the delicate passive type girls. i personally believe in standing up for myself and not running to everyone for help all the time.

[SunWuKong]

[quote:7bc1439b82="ChinaLama"]re: SWK, I think that's a Western thing but I may be wrong; maybe it's BOTh a Western and Eastern thing. I guess if you're right, the commies have destroyed tradition in my home cuz my dad is pretty much the undisputed master of the household in everything. My mom plans vacations, i guess.
[/quote:7bc1439b82]


yeah the CCP had definitely been out to destroy many traditional ideals in the past decades. especially confucian ones - with good reason. in one sweep they eliminated legally sanctioned gender bias (which of course doesn't mean they eliminated sexism) when they finally took the country in 1949. that and considering that the harsh conditions of life in china for the past few decades had forced wives to take more active roles in making ends meet for the family, chinese families have become less patriarchal.

now the ironic thing here is that since capitalistic ideals have started being introduced in china (or should i say introduced [i:7bc1439b82]back[/i:7bc1439b82] in china), gender equality has actually gone downhill a bit in recent years. many families (usually in urban areas) are living comfortably such that the wife can afford to stay home - giving rise to pressure for women to abandon their careers. capitalistic competition has given rise to exploitation (which include exploitation of women in various forms) because now people need to fend for themselves instead of having the state look after them.

[thaite]

[quote:cb83d8ff5c="princess"][quote:cb83d8ff5c="buoywonder"]PC NOTHING! I WANNA CHICK WHO CAN KICK SOME ASS![/quote:cb83d8ff5c]
*claps* yay. finally. i know too many guys who like the delicate passive type girls. i personally believe in standing up for myself and not running to everyone for help all the time.[/quote:cb83d8ff5c]

Soooo, how [i:cb83d8ff5c]you[/i:cb83d8ff5c] doin'?

[princess]

[quote:53c332ec47="buoywonder"][quote:53c332ec47="princess"][quote:53c332ec47="buoywonder"]PC NOTHING! I WANNA CHICK WHO CAN KICK SOME ASS![/quote:53c332ec47]
*claps* yay. finally. i know too many guys who like the delicate passive type girls. i personally believe in standing up for myself and not running to everyone for help all the time.[/quote:53c332ec47]

Soooo, how [i:53c332ec47]you[/i:53c332ec47] doin'?[/quote:53c332ec47]

lol juss fine sweetie


=P :D

[Arex]

I think one's expectations are largely dependent upon one's own family structure more than anything else. My dad definitely took on more domestic responsibilities than my mom. When I was born, he was the one who took time off of work to take care of me. He did the majority of the cooking and cleaning. He did all the laundry. Come to think of it, he did everything around the house...=P That being the case, I would actually love to be the one to stay at home and take care of the kids, cook, clean, etc. I think being a house husband would be my ideal job...

RX

[tapestrybabe]

Shoot, from my experience... once a couple has kids... and when the kids get old enough, it becomes the childrens responsibilities to do the domestic chores around the house. It was us kids that ended up having to wash the dishes. It was us kids that ended up doing the laundry. It was us kids having to vacuum. It was us kids having to take out the garbage. Gender didn't matter. I got 1 brother and 1 sister.. and when we got older.. we all shared the responsibility of the domestic chores around the house..

[SunWuKong]

anyway, let's get back to the subject...

i really want to hear more female input on this. do you think asian males are out to find domestic women???

[princess]

the thought never really crossed my mind, though now that i think about it, the asian guys that i know of tend to be the dominant figure in the relationship. i can think of a really recent example where a friend of mine was dating a guy that insisted that she be the one to cook and clean for him. she even had to do his laundry a few times. i dont think this is necessarily an asian guy trend...it just largely depends, as arex said before, on ones upbringing.

[thaite]

I'm a big boy. I can do my own damn laundry, make my own dinner, wash my own dishes, etc. Some 'men' really need to get off their asses.

[AsianLatinaHottie]

:P OK, I have also heard all these complaints that Asian guys want all these women to do these weird things and that's one of the most basic reasons that are given for going to white men. The feeling is that white men are more egalitarian, is that true? For some reason I can't picture white men doing the cooking around the house, are you with me?

[SunWuKong]

[quote:940a9b15af="AsianLatinaHottie"]:P OK, I have also heard all these complaints that Asian guys want all these women to do these weird things and that's one of the most basic reasons that are given for going to white men. The feeling is that white men are more egalitarian, is that true? For some reason I can't picture white men doing the cooking around the house, are you with me?[/quote:940a9b15af]


so should i assume that you don't think asian guys are out to find women who are domestic and submissive?

[AsianLatinaHottie]

Sun Wu, it's funny but after reading that post by the sister who was shocked to discover these Asian guys wanted domesticated types, I was shocked also.Our (ABC) family grew up very egalitarian as my older bro was taught at an early age to cook and clean and even sew! So all of us can do enough to be sulf sufficient in many ways. I guess I never realized how nice our family was and how our parents are really quite remarkable in so many ways. I never thought we were outside the norm and so I thought every Asian family was like this, until I read a few of these posts.
I do worry about my older brother though. He is good looking, personable and I think his wf's outnumber his Asian ones.What with so many Asian sisters complaining about their males being so deficient, I think that my bro would be such a terrible waste if he resumes his current dating habits. It reminds me of how Black females complain there aren't any good Black males left out there after wf's take their pick of the litter. It would seem that our race is under attack in a very damaging way.

[tapestrybabe]

Look, i dont think that there is inherently wrong for an asian guy or any guy in wanting a domestic female. What I have problems with is thinking.. just cuz one is looking for a domestic female... that in some way your dominating them.. like in some way that being a domestic female is a submissive role, that its lesser than something else. I feel, one can still be domestic... and still have an independent way of thinking..

[SunWuKong]

[quote:1ba1f0f158="Tapestrybabe"]Look, i dont think that there is inherently wrong for an asian guy or any guy in wanting a domestic female. What I have problems with is thinking.. just cuz one is looking for a domestic female... that in some way your dominating them.. like in some way that being a domestic female is a submissive role, that its lesser than something else. I feel, one can still be domestic... and still have an independent way of thinking..[/quote:1ba1f0f158]


well, i think it's justified that many women would think that domesticated equals submissive. because in reality, i think that many if not most men who are looking for domestic females are in fact also looking for females that are submissive. true, this is not necessarily so, there [b:1ba1f0f158]are[/b:1ba1f0f158] men who are looking for domestic females that are not submissive. but you know, i think that takes a [b:1ba1f0f158]very[/b:1ba1f0f158] high level of maturity.

i think somewhere between traditional asian patriarchal values and american 80s feminism that looked down on domestic women, many asian women got the idea that being with an asian male means being in a submissive female role. but this is not to say that all those asian women are just delusional. i mean there must be some truth in it if so many asian women think this way, right?

[tapestrybabe]

Wellz, when i think of the word submissive.. i view that word as equaling to not being able to think for yourself, not being able to make your own choices. I equate that word as allowing someone else always making the decisions for you... i dont view domesticated equaling to being submissive... ppl may associate being domesticated as submissive.. Even i do to sometimes... but its not equal..

Cuz i view my aunt and my cousin Lisa... they dont have a regular 9-5 job. But their full time job consists of being a full time wife and mother at home. They cook, clean the house, they go grocery shopping, do the laundry... take their kids to the YMCA, soccer practice or whatever... And their role of being domestic.. i dont view it as something to be looked down upon... cuz what they do around the house and with their kids is just as important and honorable as what their husbands do when it comes to brining home the pay... i dont view their roles as being submissive.. cuz submissive means to me, lack of control and decision making... and both my aunt and cousin both have a strong voice in family decisions.

[SunWuKong]

[quote:415091d250="Tapestrybabe"]Cuz i view my aunt and my cousin Lisa... they dont have a regular 9-5 job. But their full time job consists of being a full time wife and mother at home. They cook, clean the house, they go grocery shopping, do the laundry... take their kids to the YMCA, soccer practice or whatever... And their role of being domestic.. i dont view it as something to be looked down upon... cuz what they do around the house and with their kids is just as important and honorable as what their husbands do when it comes to brining home the pay... i dont view their roles as being submissive.. cuz submissive means to me, lack of control and decision making... and both my aunt and cousin both have a strong voice in family decisions.[/quote:415091d250]


yeah i understand what you mean. even though i would rather have a wife that has a career outside the home and share the housework with me, i also think that housewives are more often than not undervalued and seen as submissive by society.

being a career housewife is definitely not something to be looked down on, and in fact, i think that being submissive is also not something to be looked down upon.

[tapestrybabe]

[quote:f35f0d03cd="SunWuKung"]i think that being submissive is also not something to be looked down upon.[/quote:f35f0d03cd]

i dunno.. it depends on how you look at it. Being submissive, you can see it like a trust thing. Its like allowing that other person to be in charge and be the leader. And you're entrusting that other person to make their best judgments and decisions. But than again, I can see it as a bad thing... Like lets say.. if a man wants to fuck a woman.. and the female doesnt want it... i see it as a bad thing if the woman gives in and submitts to that man's authority... and allows him to fuck her anyways...

[AsianLatinaHottie]

Well guys, one really important thing I have come to realize is the phenomenen of 'latchkey kids' and all the press they've been receiving as of late. It really worries me that kids can slip through the cracks these days and get into serious trouble and join gangs and what not because there is no parental supervision. They say the most crucial time for trouble is from 2pm to 7pm, times when parents havent gotten back from work yet. So let's juggle everything so far like two career households and voila; the makings of a latchkey kid! Now then if the new age wife wants to have a career as is her right, then what if the husband agrees to be a househusband? I can see it now, the female will lose respect for her mate and probably begin an affair with someone 'professional' she meets at work and then the family crumbles again. Gawd, there is no easy way out these days is there?

[kasia]

doesn't it have something to do with the way our bodies are built? equal doesn't have to mean the same. men are naturally, on the most part, bigger and stronger than women, no?

i personally prefer cooking, cleaning, gardening, etc. to watering the lawn, fixing the fence, changing the oil in my car, etc. however, i don't think that would place me in a subordinate position.

at the same time, however, if a guy [i:b11a8fb52a]required[/i:b11a8fb52a] me to cook, clean, etc., i would be less inclined to enjoy it.

[SunWuKong]

[quote:42a77d35a7="Tapestrybabe"][quote:42a77d35a7="SunWuKung"]i think that being submissive is also not something to be looked down upon.[/quote:42a77d35a7]

i dunno.. it depends on how you look at it. Being submissive, you can see it like a trust thing. Its like allowing that other person to be in charge and be the leader. And you're entrusting that other person to make their best judgments and decisions. But than again, I can see it as a bad thing... Like lets say.. if a man wants to fuck a woman.. and the female doesnt want it... i see it as a bad thing if the woman gives in and submitts to that man's authority... and allows him to fuck her anyways...[/quote:42a77d35a7]

i guess i should say that being submissive is not [i:42a77d35a7]nessarily[/i:42a77d35a7] a bad thing? but then again, being dominating is not [i:42a77d35a7]necessarily[/i:42a77d35a7] a good thing either, because you might not compromise when compromise is really the best way to go.


[quote:42a77d35a7="kasia"]doesn't it have something to do with the way our bodies are built? equal doesn't have to mean the same. men are naturally, on the most part, bigger and stronger than women, no?

i personally prefer cooking, cleaning, gardening, etc. to watering the lawn, fixing the fence, changing the oil in my car, etc. however, i don't think that would place me in a subordinate position.

at the same time, however, if a guy [i:42a77d35a7]required[/i:42a77d35a7] me to cook, clean, etc., i would be less inclined to enjoy it.[/quote:42a77d35a7]

so where is the line drawn between if a guy [i:42a77d35a7]wants[/i:42a77d35a7] you to do these things as opposed to him [i:42a77d35a7]requiring[/i:42a77d35a7] you to do them? or is there a difference? because as far as i can tell, many asian women stay away from asian guys because they think that asian guys want them to cook, clean, etc etc. (and they may be right that many asian guys do indeed want this)

[SunWuKong]

Alright, I am realizing something quite alarming. I never realized it before, but many Asian girls think that Asian guys are out to find Asian women they can dominate, Asian women who will cook and clean, etc. The domestic female.

The problem is... I've never thought that this is what my fellow Asian guys want. I always felt that they want love and affection like normal.

So are we somehow getting a bad rep here? Or are we really such pigs?

This has also got me thinking - that if I can't see that my fellow Asian guys are like this, then maybe I'm not seeing this in myself. Maybe I actually want a domestic female and I don't even realize it? But really, that is not what I want at all, at least not on the surface.



Help me out here...

[achtungbaby]

I think if anything that it's more common for Asian males to want the best of both worlds: a fine, ambitious, intelligent woman who certainly has the stuff of CEO's, while at the same time, and probably more importantly, is a great cook and just pampers the shit out of her man.

A lot of us may say we want progressive women, but our actions prove otherwise. I guess the same could be said about the double-standards we have re: just how "innocent" we want our women to be. Sure, we want our women to be white as snow, but we'd also like it if she had this God-given, natural affinity to freaky-deaky sex that she'd never had to learn through countless relationships.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Aug 7 2002, 06:38 PM
I think if anything that it's more common for Asian males to want the best of both worlds: a fine, ambitious, intelligent woman who certainly has the stuff of CEO's, while at the same time, and probably more importantly, is a great cook and just pampers the shit out of her man.

A lot of us may say we want progressive women, but our actions prove otherwise. I guess the same could be said about the double-standards we have re: just how "innocent" we want our women to be. Sure, we want our women to be white as snow, but we'd also like it if she had this God-given, natural affinity to freaky-deaky sex that she'd never had to learn through countless relationships.
yeah that's very true. for me personally, i would like an intelligent and independent girl, but i have to admit that i am influenced by girls being "girly" sometimes. just as long as she's not doing it too much, that is, because it can get annoying if she's too "girly" all the time.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 7 2002, 10:49 AM
yeah that's very true. for me personally, i would like an intelligent and independent girl, but i have to admit that i am influenced by girls being "girly" sometimes. just as long as she's not doing it too much, that is, because it can get annoying if she's too "girly" all the time.
I think that's my problem -- maybe because I'm so damn white-washed that girly-girly girls get on my nerves more than if I wasn't.

[kimpossible]

Speaking as the token married female here...

You (hetero men) want what I call Slutty Crocker; a nice girl you can take home to the family and cooks like Mom in the kitchen then turns into your personal porn star in the bedroom. This isn't just an Asian guy thing, I think it's all guys (once again, hetero). However, the pressure is totally on when you marry an Asian guy. You know what it takes to make your husband *truly* happy. Outside of having threesomes, of course.

I could sit here and quote all that Western feminist crap about how unfair it is until I'm blue in the face. Doesn't change the facts. I know what will make my husband happy. Homemade Taiwanese food, bathing and massaging once a week, lots of sex, and knowing he has a wife competent and capable enough to handle the finances and take care of his parents.

On the other hand, he's very loyal, respects my opinion, helps me with housework when needed and pampers me right back. Which is why it works.

My advice for you guys that are actually looking for a relationship or marriage is to really evaluate *what you want* and not what you think society would tell you to want. Decide how much you are willing to give back in a relationship. You can get a traditional girl and be pampered, you just gotta be prepared to be the traditional guy they're looking for and give 100% back.

My $0.02 for the week. Have to go run and pick up some bamboo leaves to bao zhong tzu.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 8 2002, 05:39 PM
Speaking as the token married female here...

You (hetero men) want what I call Slutty Crocker; a nice girl you can take home to the family and cooks like Mom in the kitchen then turns into your personal porn star in the bedroom. This isn't just an Asian guy thing, I think it's all guys (once again, hetero). However, the pressure is totally on when you marry an Asian guy. You know what it takes to make your husband *truly* happy. Outside of having threesomes, of course.

I could sit here and quote all that Western feminist crap about how unfair it is until I'm blue in the face. Doesn't change the facts. I know what will make my husband happy. Homemade Taiwanese food, bathing and massaging once a week, lots of sex, and knowing he has a wife competent and capable enough to handle the finances and take care of his parents.

On the other hand, he's very loyal, respects my opinion, helps me with housework when needed and pampers me right back. Which is why it works.

My advice for you guys that are actually looking for a relationship or marriage is to really evaluate *what you want* and not what you think society would tell you to want. Decide how much you are willing to give back in a relationship. You can get a traditional girl and be pampered, you just gotta be prepared to be the traditional guy they're looking for and give 100% back.

My $0.02 for the week. Have to go run and pick up some bamboo leaves to bao zhong tzu.
a mixed japanese/white girl who knows how to bao zhong tzu??? :blink:

do you have a younger sister?

[deez nuts]

Lol slutty crocker. That's pretty good.

Hmm what I want from a woman:

1)Gotta be able to handle my sarcasm

2)Let me have a guys night out once a week

3)I don't care if you don't cook or clean. If you have time do it, if you don't have time or don't want to do it, don't do it. If, I have the time do, I have no problems cooking and cleaning for you. Just so long as you also pull your share. Hell, I'm more than happy to order out.

4)Adjust to each others libido. Give and take.

5)Accept my past dating history. Don't go ballistic when I bump into or when my ex calls. Everyone has a past.

6)This is the most important one, since in the last 6-7 years was a big factor in break-ups. Understand, that I may have to bail in the middle of a evening out or a date if I get beeped by the hospital. This happens quite a few times in the course of one month. Not to sound pompous, but a lot of girls I get hooked up with from friends, the clinching factor is that my friends mention that I am a M.D. We date and when I get beeped into the hospital one time too many, they throw a fit. Hey, if you wanted to date a doctor, you gotta deal with his lifestyle. I am more than willing to accomodate to yours. Sounds fair to me.

I mean are all asian men as high maintenance as you women make us out to be?

On a side note, is that avatar of you and your husband. Your husband is a lucky man.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 8 2002, 11:11 PM-->

[kimpossible]

Hey, my shopping excursion was quicker than I thought. Light traffic.

>>do you have a younger sister?

I do. She could double for Jennifer Tilly and she's gay. Plus, like every one of my father-in-law's colleagues has already asked. God did that piss her off.

Maybe if YOU had a younger sister I could introduce her... :lol:

>>a mixed japanese/white girl who knows how to bao zhong tzu???

Oh yeah. And make shuijiao/jiao tzu (I make the skins too), nu rou mien, man-tou, bao-tzu, cong yo bing, oxtail soup, various types of pai gu and pai gu tang, huo guo, guo tie, he zu, and of course your basic whole steamed fish, seafood dishes and most of the Chinese veggies. Unfortunately, it's kind of making my hubby fat. But he gets so happy when he eats homemade food... I can't help but feed him.

The one thing I still suck at is luo buo gow. The last time it came out like luo buo flavored mochi (that's moi ji to most of you, right?) I wish there was a food forum here.

Will get back to the rest later. Dinner time. Tonight is salmon, gai lan and rice. Maybe shi fan and I can use up some of that old pork sung.

>>On a side note, is that avatar of you and your husband. Your husband is a lucky man.

Thanks, I'll take the compliment but the other girls here are very pretty. Bigger eyes than me.

[deez nuts]

OMG, you're making me hungry and I got another 2 hrs before I bail from here.

Cong yo bing and nu rou mien??!?! Gah, starving now.

Adopt me please.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 9 2002, 12:43 AM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 8 2002, 07:33 PM
Oh yeah. And make shuijiao/jiao tzu (I make the skins too), nu rou mien, man-tou, bao-tzu, cong yo bing, oxtail soup, various types of pai gu and pai gu tang, huo guo, guo tie, he zu, and of course your basic whole steamed fish, seafood dishes and most of the Chinese veggies. Unfortunately, it's kind of making my hubby fat. But he gets so happy when he eats homemade food... I can't help but feed him.

The one thing I still suck at is luo buo gow. The last time it came out like luo buo flavored mochi (that's moi ji to most of you, right?) I wish there was a food forum here.

Will get back to the rest later. Dinner time. Tonight is salmon, gai lan and rice. Maybe shi fan and I can use up some of that old pork sung.
oh my goodness gracious have mercy.
you are making me rethink that thing about not wanting a girl that wants to be a housewife.


adopt me too and pass the man-tou!



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Aug 8 2002, 09:16 PM-->

[Barbs]

Actually, I kinda like Asian guys to be a bit of a chauvinist pig. Warped tho this may sound....

I'd like to think that I'm an intelligent, career-oriented (somewhat) forward-thinking woman. But at the end of the day, when I'm at home with my man, I'd prefer to be the one to cook a nice dinner or do the "womanly" things. Not to say I wanna scrub toilets and wash feet but rather, because I grew up seeing these roles played out by my parents, intuitively I've been ingrained with the sense that a real "woman" is someone who can do these things such as cook well or clean properly. I dunno, somehow I find the concept of a man doing all the cooking, cleaning, etc. not all that sexy. That's not to say that I don't think men should help out but if the man becomes the bitch in the relationship, I can't deal.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of flack from the feminists out there but hey, that's where I'm coming from.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 8 2002, 02:39 PM
You (hetero men) want what I call Slutty Crocker; a nice girl you can take home to the family and cooks like Mom in the kitchen then turns into your personal porn star in the bedroom.
Well...yeah.

[artsfartsyjanet]

I dated two chauvinist pigs (aka fundamental narcissists) and dislike their personalities with a passion. I actually find it sexy if a guy takes the initiative to cook and clean, but that's not all. The guy I'm with has to know how to communicate WELL. Of course, I don't like it when a guy gabs incessantly because I don't need more stress in my life. :rolleyes: I also grew up in a patriarchal household with strict gender roles, but I was quite defiant. :D I was a tomboy when I was little, and my mom hated it, but I think my dad didn't mind. heheh .... I rode dirt bikes, played on skateboards, played tetherball, competed with the other boys in drawing and academics. I tended to be a higher risk taker, but as I grew up, I learned to be more reserved in public.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 11 2002, 11:29 PM
I dated two chauvinist pigs (aka fundamental narcissists) and dislike their personalities with a passion. I actually find it sexy if a guy takes the initiative to cook and clean, but that's not all. The guy I'm with has to know how to communicate WELL. Of course, I don't like it when a guy gabs incessantly because I don't need more stress in my life. :rolleyes: I also grew up in a patriarchal household with strict gender roles, but I was quite defiant. :D I was a tomboy when I was little, and my mom hated it, but I think my dad didn't mind. heheh .... I rode dirt bikes, played on skateboards, played tetherball, competed with the other boys in drawing and academics. I tended to be a higher risk taker, but as I grew up, I learned to be more reserved in public.
so do you think asian guys tend to be more chauvinistic?

[kimpossible]

Whoah! Lots of new posts and members! Cool!

Tried to read most of the posts, sorry if I'm covering old ground but I wanted to finish up what I didn't have time for last week.

Like I said before, my personal opinion is that Asian men in the general sense aren't any piggier than any other type of guy. Just like despite the stereotype of the perfectly responsible Asian man, Asian guys are just as capable of the Dumb Guy Stuff™ as any other guy.

Why I feel pressured: I am married to an only child making him the default oldest son. He's also overseas Chinese which means his parents are very old school. Yeah, I am educated and not too bad looking, but you know what most parents want. Unless I'm Miss Hong Kong with 3 phDs, a Nobel Prize under my belt and the equivalent of a Chinese Martha Stewart, I'm not the ideal daughter-in-law. I have a wonderful relationship with my in-laws, but there is a certain amount of let's say... understanding... that we had when I got married. The imperative is that I take care of their son and our family at large the way they expect it to be taken care of.

By marrying him, I instantly indebted myself socially for the rest of my life. We're the only established part of family in America. We manage investments, business, immigration paperwork and whatnot for everyone else and most likely have to put a few cousins through highschool and college in the coming years.

Why I do it: Mainly because I wasn't forced and I had motivation. I wasn't expected to marry an Asian guy - actually I was discouraged. No one forced me into this position and I knew damn well what it meant to marry an eldest son. My choice, my responsibility. On the other hand it may be interesting to some of you that I would never had married a Japanese guy.

Growing up with my own angsty Asian-American family history, I saw what it was like to lose our identity, language and eventually family overseas. I changed that when I was old enough to strike out on my own. I got back the language, I traveled, made contact and reopened communications that had lasped over a couple decades. The lesson there for me was 1) The Americanization process 2) The value of family structure

I guess if I had to sum it up, I think my perspective is different because I've had the opportunity to live in the white American family structure as well as the Asian and Asian-American family structure. The grass ain't any greener on either side. Marrying an Asian guy might mean more family involvment and dedication to traditional gender roles, but there is much more of a family structure to depend on. Marrying into the basic white family might mean less responsibility, but the family structure there is much more fragile.

Need to go check them mortgage rates. Have a *wonderful* day to everyone if I don't get a chance to say it later.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 12 2002, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 11 2002, 11:29 PM
I dated two chauvinist pigs (aka fundamental narcissists) and dislike their personalities with a passion. I actually find it sexy if a guy takes the initiative to cook and clean, but that's not all. The guy I'm with has to know how to communicate WELL. Of course, I don't like it when a guy gabs incessantly because I don't need more stress in my life. :rolleyes: I also grew up in a patriarchal household with strict gender roles, but I was quite defiant. :D I was a tomboy when I was little, and my mom hated it, but I think my dad didn't mind. heheh .... I rode dirt bikes, played on skateboards, played tetherball, competed with the other boys in drawing and academics. I tended to be a higher risk taker, but as I grew up, I learned to be more reserved in public.
so do you think asian guys tend to be more chauvinistic?
I think guys (Asian or not) have the capacity to be chauvinistic. Guys who are more respectful of others even in stressful or relational situations probably won't be chauvinistic. Actually, chauvinism isn't a diagnostic term. It's just a negative label or characteristic used for name calling. So, from now on, I'll refrain from the word "chauvinism." I prefer to call these people narcissistic. There are three levels of naricissism-- mild, moderate, and severe. Narcissists have the inability to empathize, regard your feelings, or put himself your shoes. So, if a narcissistic person cheats on you (keeping in mind that narcissists are difficult to screen) and starts justifying himself, don't expect him to genuinely apologize to you. IF anything, this person will be defensive and blame you for his actions. These people can be convincing and appear normal to the public eye, but in stressful situations in a relationship, they seem to lack problem-solving and coping skills. They'll probably avoid the situation at all costs. Women can be narcissistic too, but the majority of narcissists are men. Thus, I just think Asian men tend to be more narcissistic than women after looking over research about personality disorders.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 12 2002, 06:09 PM-->

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 12 2002, 06:03 PM
Thus, I just think Asian men tend to be more narcissistic than women after looking over research about personality disorders.

Hi Janet,

I am interested to know how you came about this conclusion. What list of personality disorders are you drawing your conclusion that Asian men are more narcissistic than women. The DSM(whatever version we're on)? Research articles and Journals?

[boycott]

For the most part there are a lot of Asians as well as Asian Americans that give Asian people in general a bad rep. Asians from Asia are really backwards when it comes to American culture, how to treat women, how not to embarass ourselves by not doing stuff here nobody does,etc...
Asian Americans on the other hand often tend to only be able to speak the white man's language and only that, they are as arrogant if not more than their white counterparts and feel superior to other Asians who don't speak English or are as whitewash as they are, they pooh-pooh and accept every racist incident as nothing more than regular conflict and deny the racial hostility and forebearings behind them. Some Asians have a apathetic "I don't care" attitude whereas Some Asian Americans have a denyingly
"There's nothing wrong with that" attitude. But the worst part is the fact that there are Asian and Asian American women with no morals and no respect and support for their men and own kind but would rather selfishly set out on dangerously self-hating journeys of sexual and emotional abuse from those that call them oriental chicks and chinadolls and more.

[deez nuts]

I personally think that the two biggest contributors to the negative stereotyping of Asian males in the U.S. is:

1)The media

2)I know I'm gonna be flamed for this but what the hell. The Asian woman.
With all these complaints they have, it's no wonder why women of other races think that way too. It's akin to thinking: "well if their own race of women don't want them, why should we want them."

Don't get me wrong I love my Asian sisters. And speaking from a male point of view and never dated an Asian male, I'm sure there is validity to your complaints. What I don't understand is there are asshole guys of every race, why does it roll off so easily, when in comes to their negative generalizations. And why does the negative stick to us, Asian males. like velcro. Why generalize a few bad experiences with us Asian men as a collective whole? I mean the etiology of some of these problems can be traced to men in general, regardless of ethnicity and not to Asian men exclusively.

I dated some fucked up Asian women in my time, but I take it on a case by case basis, and I don't have this chip on my shoulder, because of it. Is it because that the Asian woman is placed on a pedastal, now in American culture. Seems to me, the Asian woman can do no wrong in the eyes of American society. While the Asian male is constantly being scrutinized, analyzed and generalized. I mean when is the last time you seen a topic similar to this, in regards to Asian women. I'm sorry, for us to be categorized as this and that, based on your own dating experiences, with such a small sample size, N value if you will, is hardly reliable, valid and unbias enough to even say "all Asian men are this way." But, I also see how as this being one's outlook being shaped by one's own experience.

I said my peace. I guess flame on.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 12 2002, 01:27 PM

Hi Janet,

I am interested to know how you came about this conclusion. &nbsp;What list of personality disorders are you drawing your conclusion that Asian men are more narcissistic than women. &nbsp;The DSM(whatever version we're on)? Research articles and Journals?
Allow me to clarify myself. When I wrote "Thus, I just think Asian men tend to be more narcissistic than women after looking over research about personality disorders," I can see how it can be misleading to the audience.
Now, it is my hypothesis that Asian American men have a significant and greater tendency to have Narcissistic Personality disorder than than Asian American women.
I don't go as far as implying that it's PROVEN for Asian American men to have a higher tendency because that would be a generalization; but to research this population in relation to narcissism, is worth exploring. I am also not implying that because of my experiences with Asian men have any bearing on any claim you may think I'm proposing. The following is the DSM-IV defining Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).


Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
requires excessive admiration
has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Criteria summarized from:
American Psychiatric Association. (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Association.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 18 2002, 08:22 PM
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

wow that sounds pretty bad. except that i kind of read this particular one above as "unwilling to compromise". i actually find that to be an admirable quality (except, obviously, when applied to a relationship with the significant other).

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 19 2002, 01:22 AM

Allow me to clarify myself. When I wrote "Thus, I just think Asian men tend to be more narcissistic than women after looking over research about personality disorders," I can see how it can be misleading to the audience.
Now, it is my hypothesis that Asian American men have a significant and greater tendency to have Narcissistic Personality disorder than than Asian American women.
I don't go as far as implying that it's PROVEN for Asian American men to have a higher tendency because that would be a generalization; but to research this population in relation to narcissism, is worth exploring. I am also not implying that because of my experiences with Asian men have any bearing on any claim you may think I'm proposing. The following is the DSM-IV defining Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).


Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
requires excessive admiration
has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Criteria summarized from:
American Psychiatric Association. (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Association.
I am familiar to how the APA defines NPD in the DSM. I am more curious on the research done on this subject. You mentioned looking over research on personality disorder. I am more interested in and I assume previous research done, and more on the lines on how you came about your hypothesis. Kinda curious in reading up on this as well, merely to satiate my own curiousity.

In no way was my initial post intended to attack your hypothesis and treat this as a defending your dissertation type scenerio. If it came across that way, I apologize. I just want to see both sides of everything, before drawing my own conclusions and in the process learn something new. I'm not a Psychologist or a Psychiatrist, nor was I Psychology major in college, so you definitely have more knowledge about this than I do. But stuff like this always interested me, not only from an Asian American standpoint but also from a purely medical perspective.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 19 2002, 02:45 AM-->

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 18 2002, 08:22 PM
Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
requires excessive admiration
has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Criteria summarized from:
American Psychiatric Association. (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Association.
WOW! You sure are an expert in categorizing things. You know, if you display the following type of behaviour... than your labled as this or that. *clap* *clap* *clap* for a behavior therapist to know such things... But you know.. how does this list support your hypothsis that Asian men display this type of behaviour more than Asian females?? And Uggg... it annoys me sometimes when ppl start judging others solely on their personality disorders without seeing the whole picture.. cuz lord knows i have my share of disorders... and i feel i'm still a very decent person.. thank you very much...

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Aug 18 2002, 10:02 PM

WOW! You sure are an expert in categorizing things. You know, if you display the following type of behaviour... than your labled as this or that. *clap* *clap* *clap* for a behavior therapist to know such things... But you know.. how does this list support your hypothsis that Asian men display this type of behaviour more than Asian females?? And Uggg... it annoys me sometimes when ppl start judging others solely on their personality disorders without seeing the whole picture.. cuz lord knows i have my share of disorders... and i feel i'm still a very decent person.. thank you very much...
Whether the first few statements in your reply was sarcastic is unknown to me, but I will tell you this:

I never stated that the list I provided supports my hypothesis (let alone has a significant relationship) until research is done on the issue with a good pool of people from either gender at one study period. If you are implying that I am annoying because I'm "judging people" soley on their personality disorders without seeing the "whole picture" is a statement in of itself that hasn't examined the purpose of MY statements. As a behavioral therapist, my job is not to diagnose clients. My job is to apply behavioral therapy to children with autism. As a crisis worker, my job is also not to diagnose my clients. Rather, I provide crisis intervention to people who are at risk of committing suicide, homicide, and abuse. I talk to people who have been raped, molested, neglected, abused, or who have already attempted suicide in the past. I talk to a range of people-- among those people are the mentally ill. As for people involved in domestic violence and talking to countless numbers of them, I think I'd learn by now or have an inkling about a lot of the patterns of abuse that goes on. The same with my personal experiences in the past. I, however, work for a clinical psychologist. I tell the psychologist hard evidence about the people I've had my own personal relationships with because the person I work for and I have grown very close to each other on a professional basis. But I do know that even as behavioral therapists and a crisis worker, I will never truly know everything internally about my clients. I imagine it's the same as a clinical psychologist, a medical doctor, and many other professions that try to understand their clients as fully as possible. Look, I don't judge people negatively if they have any kind of disorder. I don't blame people for their disorders. It's the disorder itself. My personal experiences have resulted in anger because people with disorders can hurt other people. I may call guys I've been with "pigs" but only because of how another person's disorder has impacted my life. The bottom line is that I don't condemn any human being for what they do not know or cannot really control. I'm sure anyone who has their share of disorders is a decent person deep down, but if the disorders start to harm other people and the person him/herself, I wonder personally how true they are even to themselves when they say they're a "decent" person .



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 18 2002, 11:13 PM-->

[deez nuts]

I know it was your hypothesis, and just that. And I definitely knew for a fact that you did not come about your hypothesis solely from the definition of NPD in the DSM; which is used primarily for identifying and diagnosing mental disorders. You said you came about your hypothesis that Asian men are more narcissistic than women "after looking over research about personality disorders." I am interested in the research.

I've been going to the medical library here at the hospital to start gathering infomation and studying for the upcoming USMLE part III and during my breaks I've been trying to find the research done to collaborate your hypothesis. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction since it covers a broad spectrum and I don't even know where to start.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 19 2002, 02:56 PM-->