MIT Vegas team movie - 21:Bringing down the house

[TB4000]

Director Shawn Levy Turns 21
Source: Variety September 2, 2005


Sony has offered Shawn Levy (Cheaper by the Dozen, upcoming The Pink Panther) a pay or play deal to direct 21, a film the studio acquired from MGM, reports Variety. Kevin Spacey's Trigger Street Productions is producing. Brett Ratner was originally set to direct but is now helming X-Men 3 at Fox.

Formerly called "Breaking Vegas," the film is based on Ben Mezrich's nonfiction bestseller "Bringing Down the House," about six MIT students who were trained to become experts in card counting and subsequently took :as Vegas casinos for millions in winnings.

Peter Steinfeld (Be Cool) wrote the adaptation. Spacey has been eyeing the role of the MIT students' professor.

[kimpossible]

From Angry Asian Man:

So check this out... You may have heard of Bringing Down the House, the book by Ben Mezrich that tells the true story of a group of MIT students that took Vegas for millions using blackjack and simple math. You may have also heard that the book was being made into a feature film starring Kevin Spacey as the MIT professor who taught the group. Now, here's what sucks. In real life, most of the actual blackjack team was composed of Asian males. But that's real life. In Hollywood-sucks-land, a studio executive involved in the casting process has apparently said that most of the film's actors would be white, with perhaps an Asian female

If I remember reading an article about the team correctly, it was actually vital that there a good number of Asian guys on the team because they were the ones believable as high rollers.

Terry> Changed the thread title from 21 just so ppl can get the subject a bit more from a quick look.

[mr. x]

saw the angryasian post too, and i hate to sound like the mr.x broken record and all

"with perhaps an Asian female"

executive: "her technical expertise is administering handjobs" (giggity giggity goo!)

[deez nuts]

if i remember correctly, i think there were 3 asian male members on the team and one asian female member. i think out of the three asian male members; one of them was hapa.

i don't think there are three asian male actors with enough box office draw to make the movie profitable.

if i was the studio exec in charge of the flick, i would hire big name white actors and probably lucy liu (i think she would actually be awesome in the role). i like mark wahlberg or colin farrell.

i think most of the members on the team with the exception of a couple in the book were the stereotypical MIT students i.e. math geeks. if the movie were to stay faithful to the book and its characters, there probably will be complaints about asian stereotypes in movies.

the book was awesome and i loved it. it inspired me to try and learn how to count cards in blackjack. i'm definitely watching the movie when it comes out.

[Banana]

I'll pass and choose not to support this for the above stated reasons alone.

[Arex]

if i remember correctly, i think there were 3 asian male members on the team and one asian female member. i think out of the three asian male members; one of them was hapa.

i don't think there are three asian male actors with enough box office draw to make the movie profitable.

if i was the studio exec in charge of the flick, i would hire big name white actors and probably lucy liu (i think she would actually be awesome in the role). i like mark wahlberg or colin farrell.While it's true there probably aren't any three asian male actors with sufficient box office draw to make a blockbuster, they could still draw audiences with just one or two big name caucasian leads and fill the other roles with Asians. In other words, there's no need to completely shaft us.

i think most of the members on the team with the exception of a couple in the book were the stereotypical MIT students i.e. math geeks. if the movie were to stay faithful to the book and its characters, there probably will be complaints about asian stereotypes in movies.I can only speak for myself, but if a movie is based on a true story, then I think I would be able to stomach accurate depictions of the characters.

The problem is, if they had cast some Asian males in the film, the Asians would be the awkward math geeks whereas the white characters would be handsome and cool. And, of course, the Asian girl would one of the white guys' love interest. That wouldn't be cool.

the book was awesome and i loved it. it inspired me to try and learn how to count cards in blackjack. i'm definitely watching the movie when it comes out.While I would otherwise be all over this film I think I'm going to have to pass.

This is like a modern day version of how the Chinese were kept out of photographs showing the completion of the transcontinental railroad. Fuck that. (Okay, so not quite that bad, but still...)

[Banana]

Being ignored is what drives the majority of Asian American complaints towards Hollywood, I think.

[grimfan]

I got this from angryasianman.com. There's this NYT bestseller called "Bringing Down the House", which is about a group of MIT students who beat Vegas blackjack through math. It's going to be a big Hollywood movie starring Kevin Spacey.

Now, you'd think that since America has intentionally holed up Asian guys as MIT math nerds, they'd at least give us the spotlight when there's a movie about MIT math nerds. But apparently, Asian guys are only MIT math nerds when there aren't major motion pictures about MIT math nerds. Where there's a motion picture involved, white guys are MIT math nerds. Oh, but just in case we Asians feel left out, there's so good to throw in an Asian girl in the mix, all in the name of enlightenment and pro-diversity.

I absolutely despise it when the lone token Asian presence is an Asian girl. I'd prefer it if we weren't represented at all. At least that way, we can pretend that they simply do not know we exist. But by throwing in the token Asian girl, we are aware of the fact that we ARE recognized, but ignored afterwards. It's not that people simply don't realize there are Asian men out there, they do know. They just dislike us so much that they go out of their way to exclude us from everything.

[LaiSteve66]

Does anyone know the ethnicities of the MIT 6? I researched and couldn't find anything.

[Paradox]

At least that way, we can pretend that they simply do not know we exist. But by throwing in the token Asian girl, we are aware of the fact that we ARE recognized, but ignored afterwards. It's not that people simply don't realize there are Asian men out there, they do know. They just dislike us so much that they go out of their way to exclude us from everything.
That's the way things are in the U.S. I'd say in a way we are still living in a colonial society. You have your "negros" your "undesirables" and a racial hierarchy where everyone fits into a nicely placed slot. If you disrupt that racial caste then that means other things can also be disrupted like social status, economic influence, and political power. They'll never let it happen.

This is why I don't trust this country very much. I see how minorities are treated and I realize that a lot of the bad foreign policy and wars the U.S. is involved in is bred from the same ignorance.

[Atealtha]

I saw a documentary about those people. I don't think any of them were Asian.

[boondock]

hey deez nuts, you totally sound like your defending white guys
and oh, by the way...you somehow like mark wahlberg, here's some info about him
"At approximately 9:00 p.m. on April 8, 1988 Thanh Lam, a Vietnamese adult male who resides in Dorchester, traveled by car to 998 Dorchester Avenue, Dorchester, Massachusetts. At 998 Dorchester Avenue, Thanh Lam left his car carrying two cases of beer. As he crossed the sidewalk, Mark Wahlberg attacked Thanh Lam. Wahlberg was carrying a large wooden stick, approximately five feet long and two to three inches in diameter. Wahlberg approached Thanh Lam calling him a "Vietnam fucking shit," then hit him over the head with the stick. Thanh Lam was knocked to the ground unconscious. Th[e] stick broke in two and was later recovered from the scene. Thanh Lam was treated overnight at Boston City Hospital."
http://modelminority.com/article225.html

[Nightwish]

Levy....Steinfeld.


Hmm...

[Chad]

"At approximately 9:00 p.m. on April 8, 1988 Thanh Lam, a Vietnamese adult male who resides in Dorchester, traveled by car to 998 Dorchester Avenue, Dorchester, Massachusetts. At 998 Dorchester Avenue, Thanh Lam left his car carrying two cases of beer. As he crossed the sidewalk, Mark Wahlberg attacked Thanh Lam. Wahlberg was carrying a large wooden stick, approximately five feet long and two to three inches in diameter. Wahlberg approached Thanh Lam calling him a "Vietnam fucking shit," then hit him over the head with the stick. Thanh Lam was knocked to the ground unconscious. Th[e] stick broke in two and was later recovered from the scene. Thanh Lam was treated overnight at Boston City Hospital."
http://modelminority.com/article225.html
fucked up...
i have fantasies about beating up famous assholes. wahlberg just made my list. i once saw Dana Carvey at a gun show in Dallas but i didn't want to beat him up. i just told him that SNL wasn't funny and Wayne's World sucks.

[Paradox]

fucked up...
i have fantasies about beating up famous assholes. wahlberg just made my list.
It wouldn't be difficult to kick wahlberg's ass. He's a 5'6" midget with oompa loompa muscles.

[s1eve]

Hmm, will be keeping an eye on this, especially the casting ...

[boondock]

sorry to bring this old topic up again but the movie is coming out pretty soon. http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/21/
apparently this movie is as bad as predicted, with the sole asian guy for 'comedic' effect. http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33658

thats not why i'm posting, however I just happened to stumble upon another book by the same author, Ben Mezrich, that wrote the book this movie is based on. This book is called Ugly Americans and its about a white guy going to japan, striking it rich while fucking their women.

"Along the way, Malcolm fell in love with the daughter of a Yakuza gangster, built a vast fortune out of thin air, and came head-to-head with the violent Japanese mobsters who helped turn the Asian markets into the turbulent casino it is today."
great....oh and btw, i looked at who this book was dedicated to, some asian girl that must be the author's wife and he lovingly equates her to the japanese call girl/hostess in the book. so Ben Mezrich is an ASIAPHILE..ugh, and he couldn't help an asian brother out by having the main character in the movie, BASED ON REAL LIFE, cast with an Asian male, nope, gotta be a white guy. gee, this guy sures loves him some oriental girls. contact at ben@benmezrich.com

[USCTrojanzNo1]

Okay, what I don't understand is this...

There are two MIT card counting teams that I am aware of (maybe even more). One of them is led by Kevin Lewis, whose real name is Jeffrey Ma. Ma's team consists primarily of Asians and hapas. The second MIT team is led by Samyon Dukach and consists primarily of Jews and Eastern Europeans. The book "Bringing Down the House" is based on the Asian team.

So why is the film 21 based on Bringing Down the House if the film's cast consists primarily of Caucasian players for the MIT team? Why not base the movie instead on Burning Vegas (which wouldn't make much of a difference plot-wise, except for marketing the movie)?

I just think it's kinda obnoxious that the film is purported based on a true story when they case a white person to play the role belonging to an Asian. If the film was based on Samyon Dukach, it would be completely understandable. but the movie is based on Jeffrey Ma and his crew so why cast a white person to play Jeffrey Ma?

i would also imagine that there'd be a lot less complaints from Asian Americans if the movie was based on Burning Vegas instead because at least the MIT crew from Burning Vegas is primarily Caucasian (I know Samyon Dukach was the leader, and one of the other guys there was Andy Bloch, a well known poker player).

[BillBlythe]

sigh. this topic comes up whenever someone of a different ethnic/religion portrays a real person. It happened with Evita, with Selene, and now this.

if i was a hollywood producer i don't care who jeff ma or what race his co-horts are. it's a good story to turn into a movie and i'm gonna buy the rights to the book and stick in a few round eyes anyway. i don't care.

[BillBlythe]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PsK1c9ZBpuw

trailer's up. not looking so good.

[suishiexpress]

Should Asians boycott the film 21?

[deez nuts]

What's wrong with the movie? I will boycott it because I can't remember the last time I paid money to watch a movie in a movie theater. It's such a waste of money and time.

[Zombie Dave]

I need more info. I love cinema, I almost never watch films on TV. Except on my huge ass LG HD full screen, and then only if its a blu-ray disc.

I used to jump off mountains, but now cinema is an event in my life.:frown:

[Sunflare]

What!?! You used to bungee jump or parachute? Only way I can see you jumping off a cliff and fucking live to type the tale.

[pikachupacabra]

You joined in 2006 and this is your first post? To talk about if we the collective asian consciousness should boycott 21??? dear lord...

[Sunflare]

APA site falloutcentral.com (http://www.falloutcentral.com/news/2008/03/19/21-movie-boycott-this-movie-or-buy-it-in-chinatown/) just posted an new entry encouraging APAs to boycott the movie 21. It was just posted today.


From Fallout Central:

The main characters of “Bringing Down the House” are Jeff Ma and Mike Aponte, former real-life MIT students who are both Asian-American men. According to the author, most of the actual blackjack team was composed of Asian males. Not only were Asian-American actors unsuitable for the leading roles in this flick: British actor Jim Sturgess had to be imported all the way from the UK to portray the role of Jeff Ma!

Please help boycott this film and tell Hollywood that it’s okay to portray Asian-American men in lead roles as three-dimensional human beings with personalities, feelings, and a sense of humor. You know. Regular people. Is that too much to ask for? Vote no on 21

The point is that the producers are casting white people (Jim Sturgess and Kate Bosworth) in lead roles to portray people who were Asians in real life.

The producers are claiming that they are only using white actors in the lead roles for reasons strictly concerning profits and that their careful selection of the actors was not racially motivated. Whatever.

I think that's fucked up. Why couldn't they simply use AM actors?

[Zombie Dave]

What!?! You used to bungee jump or parachute? Only way I can see you jumping off a cliff and fucking live to type the tale.

dropping from a ski lift to the snow. i used to going skiing in France twice a year, racing downhill near vertical gradients at pretty good speed (you just can't do it slowly). the only downside was I often went too far ahead of whoever I was skiing with, and we'd end up in completely different villages at the end of the run. pissed them off no end. this was when I was young, 2-3 years ago. so long ago.

on topic, i see that jeffrey ma cameos in the movie of his story. why isn't he boycotting the movie he didn't make of the book he didn't write? this is so confusing!

You joined in 2006 and this is your first post? To talk about if we the collective asian consciousness should boycott 21??? dear lord...

is this is the same 'asian consciousness' that's cracking jokes about pla tanks running tibetans over on the china/tibet thread? give him/her/it a break!

[kimpossible]

I'd like to address the call to boycott. It's not the tool for the job because boycotting is a method of financial protest. AAs neither make up enough of the expected revenue or were even considered on their own as part of the audience make up. They are lumped in under whites.

Personally, I'd like to see an AA director take a shot at the storyline with a more accurate casting, capitalizing on the success of "21". Audiences will already be educated as to the storyline.

edit: good lord, dave. you're only 23?

[BillBlythe]

i think boycotting is so more powerful against AA films that we feel undermines our presence in America. There have been plenty coming out in recent times but 21 is harmless. Go see it with a friend, just don't expect too much from it.

[Zombie Dave]

I'd like to address the call to boycott. It's not the tool for the job because boycotting is a method of financial protest. AAs neither make up enough of the expected revenue or were even considered on their own as part of the audience make up. They are lumped in under whites.

yup

edit: good lord, dave. you're only 23?

"only"? 23 is old

[Arex]

^ My wife would slap you for saying that.

Interesting note: there was a short blurb in Maxim about the film and they acknowledge the fact that the real kids were Asian. Said a white kid with a $1,000,000 would look suspicious whereas an Asian kid would not. I think it was a brief Q&A with the author of the book, but I could be mistaken.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Frankly the whole argument behind profits is all they need and even I'm inclined to believe it. Who knows whether it was racially motivated or not. Ultimately people are just going to put out what they think will make the most money. It's Hollywood after all. I'm interestingly cynical enough to assume that had they thought an all Asian male cast would sell better, they'd have actually gone through with it.

[Sunflare]

So may I ask then, hypothetically assuming that there is no racial motivation behind this, and that could be a distant possiblity. . .

How could they make more profits off the film using these particular actors over using actual APA actors for the part?

And is it right?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

^ Um...how could they make more money by using white actors instead of Asian actors you ask?..................

And nobody said anything about being wrong or right, you could argue that forever. It's just business I'm talking about here. Hollywood puts out what sells.

[Sunflare]

Okay, thats one way of looking at it.

Anybody else with different or similar viewpoints to the question I asked?

[sageb1]

dropping from a ski lift to the snow. i used to going skiing in France twice a year, racing downhill near vertical gradients at pretty good speed (you just can't do it slowly). the only downside was I often went too far ahead of whoever I was skiing with, and we'd end up in completely different villages at the end of the run. pissed them off no end. this was when I was young, 2-3 years ago. so long ago.

on topic, i see that jeffrey ma cameos in the movie of his story. why isn't he boycotting the movie he didn't make of the book he didn't write? this is so confusing!



is this is the same 'asian consciousness' that's cracking jokes about pla tanks running tibetans over on the china/tibet thread? give him/her/it a break!

grr where is this thread?

[eos]

when my bf and i saw this trailer, we said "great. you know the REAL people were asians" really really loud in the theater. yeah, it's a movie, and watching it can give people a high and want to count cards, but the reality is lawsuits, being blacklisted from every hotel/casino, and jail time. i know i won't be watching it cuz i know someone who does/did this.

[Zombie Dave]

grr where is this thread?

never mind that the violence started after security forces cracked down on a peaceful sit-in, with between 19 to 100 deaths (depending on which source you believe), the Tibet Protests Against China Turn Deadly thread contains gems like:

Bring out the Type 96 PLA tanks and crush some hippie monks!

but worry not comrades! looks like PLA has restored law and order in Lhasa :smile:

I'm no the biggest fan of the ccp, but i hope the pla crush those street thugs :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Hand Tibet over to those hippie Hollywood celebs.

Negative. The Chinese drafted them in the Chapelle Race draft. They will be driving the PLA tanks and running over Tibetans.


and so on. these posts run concurrent to the actual increasing death toll and the spread of unrest to other cities. this doesn't read like 'asian consciousness', its more like a scriptwriters meeting for south park.

[deez nuts]

APA site falloutcentral.com (http://www.falloutcentral.com/news/2008/03/19/21-movie-boycott-this-movie-or-buy-it-in-chinatown/) just posted an new entry encouraging APAs to boycott the movie 21. It was just posted today.

From Fallout Central:

The main characters of “Bringing Down the House” are Jeff Ma and Mike Aponte, former real-life MIT students who are both Asian-American men. According to the author, most of the actual blackjack team was composed of Asian males. Not only were Asian-American actors unsuitable for the leading roles in this flick: British actor Jim Sturgess had to be imported all the way from the UK to portray the role of Jeff Ma!

Please help boycott this film and tell Hollywood that it’s okay to portray Asian-American men in lead roles as three-dimensional human beings with personalities, feelings, and a sense of humor. You know. Regular people. Is that too much to ask for? Vote no on 21



The point is that the producers are casting white people (Jim Sturgess and Kate Bosworth) in lead roles to portray people who were Asians in real life.

The producers are claiming that they are only using white actors in the lead roles for reasons strictly concerning profits and that their careful selection of the actors was not racially motivated. Whatever.

I think that's fucked up. Why couldn't they simply use AM actors?

Oh this movie is based on the book "Bringing Down the House." Good book. I highly recommend it.


and so on. these posts run concurrent to the actual increasing death toll and the spread of unrest to other cities. this doesn't read like 'asian consciousness', its more like a scriptwriters meeting for south park.

In all fairness, I'm pretty much an unconscious Asian. :biggrin:

[Arex]

So may I ask then, hypothetically assuming that there is no racial motivation behind this, and that could be a distant possiblity. . .

How could they make more profits off the film using these particular actors over using actual APA actors for the part?

And is it right?I'm not sure if anyone's done a study on it, but I imagine movies which involve white protagonists generally sell better to white audiences than movies featuring minority leads. That's not to say a movie featuring predominantly minority leads won't find commercial success among non-minorities, but I would think as a general rule of thumb, when dealing with non-A-list actors (the non Denzels and non Will Smiths), that's probably the case.

Of course, without demographic studies/surveys, it could all be an incorrect assumption on the studios' parts. A good test case would be to see how well Better Luck Tomorrow fared among the non-Asian crowd, seeing as race didn't overtly factor into the storyline too much. But seeing as they're in it for the money, first and foremost, I would hope they have some kind of market research behind their casting decisions.

Given that they mention the film is inspired by a true story, it's a little shitty they couldn't use at least one Asian lead, and I probably won't see the film because of it, but I have no reason to doubt their motivations were purely commercial.

[yoMAMA]

never even heard of the film.

[TB4000]

never even heard of the film.

You're always behind the times, Vinnie Barbarino. =P

[suishiexpress]

The only film that casts asians as the lead actors is Harold and Kumar. Cause you know everyone loves seeing asians make an ass of themselves. Though I'm still going to see the sequel. :biggrin:

[yoMAMA]

You're always behind the times, Vinnie Barbarino. =P

Vinnie who?
:tongue:

hey dude, better be ready for H&K2! :biggrin:

[deez nuts]

never even heard of the film.

It's ok, comrade. I too have not even heard of the movie till this thread. I actually thought this was a documentary film type thing about people turning 21 and partying it up kinda like that movie about two slutty thirteen year old white chicks I saw on lifetime awhile back called "13." God bless slutty white chicks.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

People shouldn't watch this movie as it's an obvious exaggeration of what actually happened. Also, I think it's asking too much of us to believe that MIT students are as attractive as Kate Bosworth.

Lies!

[tommyhtown]

^ I will totally buy Hot Engineering Coeds Gone Wild DVD!

[TB4000]

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/36103

Jeff Ma is interviewed about the movie.

[USCTrojanzNo1]

Why the hell are they casting a relatively unknown Caucasian actor to play the lead role who's based on a real life person who happens to be Asian American?

I think it's disappointing that the producers could not find an Asian American actor to play the lead. Hell, why don't they get Aaron Yoo to play the lead instead of a token ethnic character? The movie is based on the book Bringing Down the House. Kevin Lewis is Jeffrey Ma, a Chinese American. The film's main character is based on Jeffrey Ma. And Ma's ethnicity was crucial to the story because the casinos assumed that due to their ethnicity, these were high rolling wealthy individuals. In essence, Ma and his crew exploited racial stereotypes--that played a part in their success.

This is like casting Penn Jillette to play Lebron James in a movie about the NBA superstar. Now I'm not trying to compare Jeffrey Ma to Lebron James, but if the producers cast a non-Black actor to play Lebron James, there would be outrage from the Black community.

Hell, there are plenty of AA actors to choose from: Parry Shen, James Kyson Lee, John Cho, Jack Yang, Ivan Shaw, Ian Anthony Dale, Daniel Henney, etc.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I agree with Kim that boycotting the movie will do jackshit given the lack of, albeit growing, economic and financial leverage among Asian consumers; attention to a boycott may actually even draw additional viewers due to curiosity and publicity. The best thing we can do is make lots of noise and complain to reinforce the idea that if it's not okay if the minority(s) in question is black, it's not okay if it's Asian either.

[didu]

People shouldn't watch this movie as it's an obvious exaggeration of what actually happened.

Yeah, unlike all the other hollywood movies ... oh wait ...

[j&j2]

sigh. this topic comes up whenever someone of a different ethnic/religion portrays a real person. It happened with Evita, with Selene, and now this.

It's not ethnicity or religion but RACE - and in particular, the systemic changing of Asian "characters" to white (due to the Hollywood power-brokers thinking that Asian faces, particularly male, aren't "desireable").

This isn't anything like Linda Park (Korean) playing an Asian of Japanese descent (Sato) on Star Trek: Enterprise.

Btw, Evita Peron was white.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Yeah, unlike all the other hollywood movies ... oh wait ...

There are certain kinds of movies where one should not have to marinate in a suspension of disbelief in order to enjoy them. It's one thing to go into the Matrix and see Keanu Reeves floating in the air, but it's another thing completely to go to a movie sold as a "true story" that basically takes a really cool story, junks most of it, and uses the rest as a marketing pitch for what was probably a terrible fictional screenplay gathering dust in some William Morris agent's office.

[aznstud99]

To those complaining, how many actually actively support asian-american film? this is not a leading or rhetorical question, because for all I know maybe you guys are all huge supporters who have bought and supported better luck tomorrow, the motel, undoing, shanghai kiss, finishing the game, etc. but if not, I don't think you can really complain. most asian-american film is independent gets a very limited theatrical release, and the only way to really get hollywood's attention is to drive dvd sales and rentals. unfortunately, none of these films has become a breakout hit enough to catch the studio's attention to make them want to invest more money into AA projects. the truth is we haven't done a good job supporting the existing projects we have (although I believe that most people on this forum are much more supportive than the general asian-american population just cuz people on this forum tend to be more socially aware asians)

[Sunflare]

when my bf and i saw this trailer, we said "great. you know the REAL people were asians" really really loud in the theater. yeah, it's a movie, and watching it can give people a high and want to count cards, but the reality is lawsuits, being blacklisted from every hotel/casino, and jail time. i know i won't be watching it cuz i know someone who does/did this.

Props. I love to see APAs who are not afraid to voice out and fight when it comes to discrimination against people of color, particularly Asian Americans in the media. This shit has to stop. We have to put our foot down somewhere.

These damn degenerate yuppies in the entertainment industry need to keep themselves in check and realize that we as Asian Americans are getting sick and tired of this nonsense, movie after movie that gets filmed out of Hollywood, with these forms of discrimination against AMs and AFs. And any person of color for that matter in my book.

I'm definitely not going to watch this stupid ass movie. No APA, male or female, who is truly keen to the APA struggle would not be brainless, whitewashed, and/or self-hating enough to watch crap like this, and endorse this continued discrimination against APAs. Hell no.

Oh this movie is based on the book "Bringing Down the House." Good book. I highly recommend it.

I'm definitely going to get the book and see what this story is about in the near future. I'll rather read the damn book than watch the movie.

[Zombie Dave]

I'm definitely going to get the book and see what this story is about in the near future. I'll rather read the damn book than watch the movie.

what's buying the book going to prove? the book was written by Ben Mezrich. he's white.

[kimpossible]

To those complaining, how many actually actively support asian-american film? this is not a leading or rhetorical question, because for all I know maybe you guys are all huge supporters who have bought and supported better luck tomorrow, the motel, undoing, shanghai kiss, finishing the game, etc. but if not, I don't think you can really complain. most asian-american film is independent gets a very limited theatrical release, and the only way to really get hollywood's attention is to drive dvd sales and rentals.

Indie films actually have a higher benchmark to reach than commercial films in order to even convince a distributor to produce a DVD. So trying to support AA film by waiting for the DVD is less make-or-break than theater support. But, film distribution is changing from physical media to on-demand so that might increase access in the future but reaching an audience may still be just as challenging, if not more.

what's buying the book going to prove? the book was written by Ben Mezrich. he's white.

It's not so much who tells the story as it is the story itself in this case. Ethnicity and stereotypes were key factors in how the caper worked. The casinos were used to Asian high rollers and white kids were too conspicuous. I haven't read the book but I read the articles years ago. I'm an armchair/wannabe math and gambling geek. I think there's room here for a documentary with the team. People like me would be interested. I also really can't stand Kate Bosworth.

[aznstud99]

Indie films actually have a higher benchmark to reach than commercial films in order to even convince a distributor to produce a DVD. So trying to support AA film by waiting for the DVD is less make-or-break than theater support. But, film distribution is changing from physical media to on-demand so that might increase access in the future but reaching an audience may still be just as challenging, if not more.


That might be true, but besides harold and kumar, there are really no movies with asian-american leads that get any kind of theatrical release. most asian-american films are screened only at various film festivals, and may play at like 10 theaters for one weekend. so i feel the only way to really get any type of momentum is at the home theater distribution level. actually, harold and kumar bombed at the box office but gained cult status later on when it came out on DVD.

Either way, we have to show hollywood that putting in an Asian-American lead CAN lead to box office success. hopefully harold and kumar will do well. John Cho might be the closest thing Asian Americans have to a star actor.

[TB4000]

Harold and Kumar already have an established cult fanbase, and the suburban white kids will flock to the sequel seeing as how it's become such a cult hit. If Hollywood could keep it up, that is the question.

[USCTrojanzNo1]

Either way, we have to show hollywood that putting in an Asian-American lead CAN lead to box office success. hopefully harold and kumar will do well. John Cho might be the closest thing Asian Americans have to a star actor.

Kal Penn too.

[Sunflare]

Oh this movie is based on the book "Bringing Down the House." Good book. I highly recommend it.Props. I love to see APAs who are not afraid to voice out and fight when it comes to discrimination against people of color, particularly Asian Americans in the media. This shit has to stop. We have to put our foot down somewhere. These damn degenerate yuppies in the entertainment industry need to keep themselves in check and realize that we as Asian Americans are getting sick and tired of this nonsense, movie after movie that gets filmed out of Hollywood, with these forms of discrimination against AMs and AFs. And any person of color for that matter in my book.

I'm definitely not going to watch this stupid ass movie. No APA, male or female, who is truly keen to the APA struggle would not be brainless, whitewashed, and/or self-hating enough to watch crap like this, and endorse this continued discrimination against APAs. Hell no.



I'm definitely going to get the book and see what this story is about in the near future. I'll rather read the damn book than watch the movie.what's buying the book going to prove? the book was written by Ben Mezrich. he's white.

Personally, I would like to familiarize myself with the storyline instead of boycotting the film without a clue. That's the only reason I would buy the book.

I'm not recommending that every APA should buy the book -- The book seems to be just as questionable, as we all know, as the film since the author decided to not to reveal that his main character (Kevin Lewis) in the book version is really based on the real life experiences of an Asian American, Jeff Ma, in the first place.


There might be other subtle differences between the real person and the character in the book or movie that isn't so obvious.

[USCTrojanzNo1]

Personally, I would like to familiarize myself with the storyline instead of boycotting the film without a clue. That's the only reason I would buy the book.

I'm not recommending that every APA should buy the book -- The book seems to be just as questionable, as we all know, as the film since the author decided to not to reveal that his main character (Kevin Lewis) in the book version is really based on the real life experiences of an Asian American, Jeff Ma, in the first place.


There might be other subtle differences between the real person and the character in the book or movie that isn't so obvious.

The book itself isn't particularly memorable, but it's interesting. And despite his non-Asian surname, Kevin Lewis definitely is Asian and it is the Asian "stereotypes" (if you may) that he exploits (mainly that Asians are high risk rollers and have lots of money) that allows him to get away with a lot at the casinos without raising eyebrows.

The problem with the movie is that the characters ARE based on Jeffrey Ma, Mike Aponte, and John Chang, who are all of Asian descent. I would have no problems if Jim Sturgess's character was based on Samyon Dukach (the leader of the "other" MIT card counting team; whereas Ma and his crew were primarily Asian, Dukach's crew was primarily Eastern European and Jewish). Honestly, Jim Sturgess's character resembles Samyon more than Jeffrey Ma (at least that's what I got from the trailer).

Jeffrey Ma is also more conservative (believe it or not) than Samyon and the Eastern European card counting team.

I don't think boycotting this film will do it any good, but I think that people should make the effort to boycott if they feel it will make a difference.

If anything, this movie shows the stupidity of Hollywood. If they couldn't find any talented Asian American actors (or if they're really this narrow minded that they refuse to cast an Asian American as the lead), then they should NOT have based this movie on "Bringing Down the House" and Jeffrey Ma. The producers should've secured the rights to Ben Mezrich's other book, Burning Vegas, which has a similar (though not identical) premise, but has Caucasians as the main characters. Then the producers wouldn't have to piss Asian Americans off because at least they can explain that the story of 21 is based on real life people of Eastern European and Jewish descent.

[Sunflare]

The book itself isn't particularly memorable, but it's interesting. And despite his non-Asian surname, Kevin Lewis definitely is Asian and it is the Asian "stereotypes" (if you may) that he exploits (mainly that Asians are high risk rollers and have lots of money) that allows him to get away with a lot at the casinos without raising eyebrows.

Thanks for the clarification. That's why I wanted to look at the book, to see how the character is protrayed in the book and figure out if there is any negative stereotypes of APAs coming out of the book itself.

Now that you pointed this out, I don't have to waste my money buying the book.

The problem with the movie is that the characters ARE based on Jeffrey Ma, Mike Aponte, and John Chang, who are all of Asian descent.

I know already what the problem is concerning the movie itself, since the beginning of this thread (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=34605).


If anything, this movie shows the stupidity of Hollywood. If they couldn't find any talented Asian American actors (or if they're really this narrow minded that they refuse to cast an Asian American as the lead), then they should NOT have based this movie on "Bringing Down the House" and Jeffrey Ma. The producers should've secured the rights to Ben Mezrich's other book, Burning Vegas, which has a similar (though not identical) premise, but has Caucasians as the main characters. Then the producers wouldn't have to piss Asian Americans off because at least they can explain that the story of 21 is based on real life people of Eastern European and Jewish descent.

I honestly think that what Hollywood is doing to tear down the APA image in this movie and with any other movie where there is APA representation is deliberate overall.

You brought out some very good points.

[VV o n g B a]

i see this a little differently perhaps. it could be an opportunity to bring some of my non-politically inclined friends in to see this and talk about it afterwards. they may not care either way but at least they'll get to hear about the other side.

at the very least, the studio kept 2 asians in the movie so it's not a complete whitewash. it's certainly better than what they originally intended.

i will say that if u boycott, u need to make it clear to the studios that u aren't going to see the movie and why. they'll never know about it otherwise.

[Sunflare]

at the very least, the studio kept 2 asians in the movie so it's not a complete whitewash. it's certainly better than what they originally intended.

I noticed that too. Well, that isn't too surprising.

Isn't the Hollywood producers well known for putting in black token characters in the cast in most of the television shows and movies that are primarily targeted to white audiences, so those shows don't become complete whitewash as well?

The fact that these producers for this film went out of their way in this movie to put in two token Asian characters, while at the same time, not hire APA actors for the lead roles that were based on Asian American men in real life to begin with, confirms their lack of concern or sensitivity towards APA issues on the part of the producers of this film. All these producers and screenwriters involved in the making of this film seem to be concerned with is to capture the white audiences and make money at the sacrifice of offending APAs, which I think is stupid.

Their intentions is certainly not to entertain the APA population. I guess they made that abundantly clear with their poor selection of actors for the cast.

[aznstud99]

at the very least, the studio kept 2 asians in the movie so it's not a complete whitewash. it's certainly better than what they originally intended.


i agree that although not ideal (which would be to have asian-american leads and mostly asian cast), it is still a sign of progress. I have a feeling that if this movie was made ten years ago the cast would have been all white, or that the asian guy on the team would be super nerdy. at least aaron yoo's character seems like a kinda cool just based on snippets from the previews.

there have definitely been worse injustices in hollywood than this.

[Sunflare]

there have definitely been worse injustices in hollywood than this.

I agree. I had similar thoughts. This is not as bad as what Hollywood and the western media has done already to distort the image of AMs and -- AFs especially for that matter. . . .

But even still, someone has to put their foot down somewhere and say that this crap is wrong and has to stop.

If all the APAs remained voiceless on this particular movie, that will make the Hollywood producers even more inclined to do something even worse to further protray racist/sexist stereotypes of APAs in the future.

[lethal]

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2008-03-25-jeff-ma-21_N.htm

Interestingly, Jeff Ma doesn't seem to care about the lead actor's race and in fact, seemed to prefer a white guy over a Japanese or Korean guy.

He also isn't British, as is his on-screen counterpart, Sturgess. Sturgess says he was concerned about whether Ma, who is of Chinese descent, would be upset by Hollywood's ethnic change.

"But he was very funny about it," Sturgess says. "When we first met, he said, 'You look exactly like me.' Then we went to the top of the Palms to smoke cigars and get to know each other. We realized how similar we really are, from the films and music we like to experiences when we were drunk with girls."

Ma, who has a cameo as a dealer, says he was more concerned with having an actor who captured his personality and the dynamic between his friends. "I would have been a lot more insulted if they had chosen someone who was Japanese or Korean, just to have an Asian playing me," Ma says.

[kimpossible]

Yeah, because he's getting paid and being treated with respect for his story and informational contribution. This would be the peak of the honeymoon phase. Stay in Hollywood long enough, try to stay afloat in those celeb circles, or try to branch out from this one role and he'll find out how short the racial leash really is.

I don't begrudge him the money and fame he's earned, and I think he's actually handling the racial difference in casting quite well but it doesn't alter the reality that in order to make this a film that sells they minimized the ethnic to a comfortable level. Jeff Ma may be a math genius, shrewd, a winner and well spoken but he doesn't make up my mind for me but hey, he's the more accomplished one so maybe we're wrong and he's right.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2008-03-25-jeff-ma-21_N.htm

Interestingly, Jeff Ma doesn't seem to care about the lead actor's race and in fact, seemed to prefer a white guy over a Japanese or Korean guy.

Did he? Seems he specified that he would rather have a white guy doing a good portrayal of him than a Japanese or Korean guy doing a shitty portrayal, slightly different than preferring a white guy regardless.

[BillBlythe]

damn, i've been thinking of tzi ma whenever someone mentioned jeff ma. funny how things make sense even if we're not talking about the same person.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2008-03-25-jeff-ma-21_N.htm

Interestingly, Jeff Ma doesn't seem to care about the lead actor's race and in fact, seemed to prefer a white guy over a Japanese or Korean guy.

eh, that's not exactly what he was implying. Just to add to what chyna said, i think he was saying he'd rather not have a non-chinese asian playing him because, you know, asians have a problem with cross ethnic portrayals.

[lethal]

eh, that's not exactly what he was implying. Just to add to what chyna said, i think he was saying he'd rather not have a non-chinese asian playing him because, you know, asians have a problem with cross ethnic portrayals.

That was actually my thought. He didn't mention a Chinese person, so if not a Chinese guy, he'd rather have a white guy portray him rather than an actor of a different Asian ethnicity, just to have an Asian guy in there.

[kimpossible]

Isn't this the essence of the problem? White is the default neutral when faced with lackluster options.

[tommyhtown]

Nick Cannon wasn't available

[TB4000]

Isn't this the essence of the problem? White is the default neutral when faced with lackluster options.

Yeah, I could guarantee you if the character was originally black, you'd get no end of boycotts of the film, nor would it be released until they found a black actor.

[VV o n g B a]

Yeah, I could guarantee you if the character was originally black, you'd get no end of boycotts of the film, nor would it be released until they found a black actor.what about jolie in mighty heart or whatever? i know there was controversy about that role, but i don't recall much else.

[kimpossible]

Spotlight on missed opportunity.

I hate to drag out the drum to beat out the Hollywood Hates Asian Men tattoo but, IMO, this is one of the more no-brainer examples of a missed opportunity, and dare I say it - blatant examples of bleaching the yellow out the male. Or maybe the more accurate statement is removing the male from Asian and the central figure and transferring it to side and female.

I get what Jeffrey Ma's message is; to the point that I empathize and partially agree. The story of MIT taking on, and beating, Vegas in the heart of their stronghold is the tale to be told. Making him interchangeably Asian is off-putting and awkward. But here's where I identify the real issue: Tell the whole story, the intriguing story, the unbelievable but true story of a team that engineered a victory against the established pros. Key to the Vegas world of gambling are the Asian high rollers. Key to the team's strategy and victory is playing up to the rules of that Vegas gambling world. Changing the race of key characters also changes the nature of the Vegas gambling world's character. It dumbs the whole thing down which weakens the victory which weakens the intrigue in presentation.

With regard to the world of commercial films and Asian American actors we continually come back to the "race blind" issue which, as far as I am concerned, is a fantastically effective tool for dividing Asian women from Asian men in the public eye.

Unlike many people, I don't hate Lucy Liu, and I make that a point because I'm bringing up her success and rise to A-Lister that has included some "race blind" casting. I refer to her character's name Mia Mason in Cashmere Mafia that she insisted on keeping, and the decision to cast John Cleese as her biological father in Charlie's Angels. To a lesser degree I can think of this happening to a male actor. Daniel Dae Kim has played two federal agent bit part characters with Western names, Beckman and Baker.

This is getting more like an essay than I really intended so I'll try to wrap this up by saying I'm not seeing the upshot of race blind casting for Asian Americans beyond individual's personal gain.

what about jolie in mighty heart or whatever? i know there was controversy about that role, but i don't recall much else.

The controversy was in not substituing a black character for a white one but in taking an ethnically white actor* and applying blackface prosthetics to approximate a mixed heritage. I would also argue that the race of Pearl's wife wasn't intrinsic to shaping events, though there is certainly controversy in choosing ethnic prosthetics over casting.



*For every guy about to say "Isn't she part Indian?" I believe the accurate quantification is extremely low, if not completely fabricated by her father and/or mother. There was a claim by her parents that Jolie's mother was part Iroquois but this has never been substantiated or quantified. Merely amorphously alluded to.

[deez nuts]

Jeff Ma's alter ego in the book was a hapa with a white last name, Jeff Fisher or something. He was supposed be the son of a rich Asian executive or some shit.

The real life people involved couldn't even use him for as he is and the funny part is that they didn't want to recruit white kids for the team because a white kid with a high bank roll would be too conspicuous as opposed to an Asian kid or Middle Eastern kid. They basically took a full blooded Chinese guy and made him into a hapa so that he would be less conspicuous. Lolz.

I think there might've been an Asian chick that was used to tell the others when the house was at a disadvantage. I don't remember. If so, are they using an Asian chick for that role?

I might've paid like $5 and caught a half priced matinee since I'm an unemployed bum with nothing to do at the moment living in a house full of boxes if they got a big name stud actor. But, they got a nobody and I hate Kevin Spacey.

[kimpossible]

The flip side is it could have been a losing proposition to keep true to the importance and presence of Asian high rollers in Vegas. While I myself prefer to bet on the house and pray Asian high rollers continue to blow their money on Vegas gambling, some people think it unfairly targets Asians and/or it's an offensive stereotype, and by having a movie portrayal it could be 'promoting' Asian gambling.

08/08/08. Come all ye wishful.

[snailpoo]

But even still, someone has to put their foot down somewhere and say that this crap is wrong and has to stop.

If all the APAs remained voiceless on this particular movie, that will make the Hollywood producers even more inclined to do something even worse to further protray racist/sexist stereotypes of APAs in the future.

Exactly. Except I'm going to be too busy/lazy to actively do anything about it other than not watching, renting, or buying the movie... which, of course, even if copied by every single Asian-American alive, gets us no where.

[deez nuts]

08/08/08. Come all ye wishful.

I will be flying to Vegas with my buds and perpetuating the Chinese gambling stereotype that day and for the weekend. For 07/07/07, we drove up to Mohegan Sun. My friend lost $50,000 at the roulette table within the first 30 minutes.

[lethal]

http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2008/03/26/count_her_out/?page=full

This is the character Kate Bosworth plays.

She was a Harvard Law student at the time.

http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/Jane%20Willis%20Jane%20E%20Willis%20Ropes%20Gray%2 0Kate%20Bosworth%20Above%20the%20Law%20blog.jpg

[BillBlythe]

AAAAAAND?

anyway i saw kate on letterman and kimmel, and you can tell the movie sucks cause they talk about EVERYTHING except the movie.

She's like I was in australia for a wedding, i went sky diving, i worse a see through dress yada yada oh and here's a 10 second clip.

[kasia]

i did a quick search and found no thread on this movie yet. i hear it's good, but is anyone find it annoying that this was based on a true story about asian college students and they couldn't find an asian actor to play the main parts?

[USCTrojanzNo1]

i did a quick search and found no thread on this movie yet. i hear it's good, but is anyone find it annoying that this was based on a true story about asian college students and they couldn't find an asian actor to play the main parts?

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=25944

If you'd like to join us...your comments are definitely welcome.

Anyway, I agree with you that it's obnoxious that they couldn't find an Asian American actor to play the lead...especially since there's some guy named Aaron Yoo who managed to land the TAS (Token Asian Sidekick) role.

[SunWuKong]

closing. refer to the link above.

[cloudzero]

I will be flying to Vegas with my buds and perpetuating the Chinese gambling stereotype that day and for the weekend. For 07/07/07, we drove up to Mohegan Sun. My friend lost $50,000 at the roulette table within the first 30 minutes.

of course man, 777 is for white ppl. 888 is for chinese.
i bet all your friends and family stayed indoors on 04/04/04 :biggrin:

[Sunflare]

08/08/08. Come all ye wishful.I will be flying to Vegas with my buds and perpetuating the Chinese gambling stereotype that day and for the weekend. For 07/07/07, we drove up to Mohegan Sun. My friend lost $50,000 at the roulette table within the first 30 minutes.of course man, 777 is for white ppl. 888 is for chinese.
i bet all your friends and family stayed indoors on 04/04/04 :biggrin:

A professor (yes, she's Chinese) just told me that there are no 4th floors in some buildings in China because of the superstition around the character for death '死' for as opposed to the character for four '四'.

Is that true?

EDIT: A Japanese lady told me that they are just as iffy about the number 4.

[VV o n g B a]

A professor (yes, she's Chinese) just told me that there are no 4th floors in some buildings in China because of the superstition around the character for death '死' for as opposed to the character for four '四'.

Is that true?

EDIT: A Japanese lady told me that they are just as iffy about the number 4.yes. also in the larger buildings no 13 (like in the US) and no 14.

[Sunflare]

yes. also in the larger buildings no 13 (like in the US) and no 14.

Oh, OK. Thanks for the confirm WongBa. :cool:

[kimpossible]

I will be flying to Vegas with my buds and perpetuating the Chinese gambling stereotype that day and for the weekend. For 07/07/07, we drove up to Mohegan Sun. My friend lost $50,000 at the roulette table within the first 30 minutes.

Hope she had a good time and brings more money the next trip. But only for MGM and Las Vegas Sands. The rest I don't care about.

[TB4000]

This happened at the casino near my place.

--------------

Boss of casino cheating ring that hit E.C. pleads guilty



BY THE TIMES | Thursday, April 03, 2008 | 1 comment(s)

SAN DIEGO | A fired card dealer accused of leading a crew that swindled casinos --including Resorts East Chicago -- has pleaded guilty to multiple charges.

Phuong Quoc Truong, 42, ran the San Diego-based operation that hit 16 casinos nationwide. The scheme -- which bilked nearly $7 million from casions -- involved bribes to supervisors and card dealers and used blocks of unshuffled cards.

Truong, who pleaded guilty Wednesday to racketeering conspiracy and theft charges, faces up to 20 years in prison. He is the seventh of 19 members of the ring to plead guilty in what federal prosecutors called one of largest cheating schemes ever broken up.

A federal indictment handed down last May charged 19 members of the Tran Organization with conspiring to bribe, steal, transport stolen property, launder money, tamper with witnesses and defraud 14 casinos.

Members of the ring crisscrossed the continent beginning in 2002, sometimes swooping down only after gauging a casino's weaknesses, according to the indictment.

A Resorts East Chicago card dealer initially rebuffed the ring's attempt to lure him into the scheme but later succumbed, the indictment said.

The Resorts dealer, named only by the initials C.S., agreed to perform a false shuffle at a mini-baccarat table.

By failing to properly reshuffle cards already dealt, the dealer ensures the cards are in same order as in the previous game, enabling the cheaters to predict the outcome of the next game.

The scheme netted the ring $868,000 in less than two hours at Resorts on Oct. 22, 2005.

[Jimmyboi]

The casting is racist, dont tell me its a "business" duescission.

Its not like Jim Sturgess is gonna attract crowds. I mean you got Kevin Spacey and Laurence. Even if you cast a couple of Asian leads, it's not like white people not gonna see the movie.

My cast choice would be:

Aaron Yoo
John Cho
Roger Fan
Sung Kang

[j&j2]

Some "insight" on Hollywood's mind-set w/ regard to casting (nothing we don't already know)...

"During the talk, Mezrich mentioned the stereotypical Hollywood casting process, though most of the actual blackjack team was composed of Asian males, a studio executive involved in the casting process said that most of the film's actors would be white, with perhaps an Asian female."

But at least some film critics are getting wise to it.

The conduit to Ben’s journey of counterfeit self-discovery is a racially, ethnically, sexually balanced gang of other greedy bright things (the most appealing being Aaron Yoo, wasted as the kooky, sexless Asian guy), run by an equally avaricious math professor, Micky Rosa (Kevin Spacey on autopilot). – NYTimes


In real life the MIT gang of card-counting wizards who raked in millions was spearheaded by a kid named Jeff Ma. Can you guess what's different about the Ma character now that he has become the protagonist in a major studio release? If you guessed "he's taller," you're incorrect. The correct answer is "he's whiter." He's now as pasty white as they come. And not just American pasty white; No, for "21," they went with Jim Sturgess, who hails from England, where "pasty" knows no bounds. – LA Times

And here's a discussion on the EW site.

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2008/03/calling-the-blu.html

[Sunflare]

There's light at the end of the tunnel , a small ray of hope for APAs in Hollywood.

That's progress. Lets hope Hollywood continues to wake up and realize.

[BillBlythe]

Some "insight" on Hollywood's mind-set w/ regard to casting (nothing we don't already know)...



But at least some film critics are getting wise to it.

– NYTimes


– LA Times

And here's a discussion on the EW site.

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2008/03/calling-the-blu.html

you got sources for those quotes?

[Yeahman]

Might have been racist in intent but apparently Jeff Ma had no problem with who was cast.

[nameless]

He used stereotypes before to make money at blackjack, so it should be no surprise that he accepts Hollywood's money.

No sellout accusations meant, just saying it's clear money, and not AA image, is his priority.

[USCTrojanzNo1]

He used stereotypes before to make money at blackjack, so it should be no surprise that he accepts Hollywood's money.

No sellout accusations meant, just saying it's clear money, and not AA image, is his priority.

First of, I want to make it clear that I agree with everybody who says that this film is a slap in the face to Asian Americans, especially since they could've easily cast Aaron Yoo as the lead.

However, to play Devil's Advocate here, you seem to have no problem acknowledging that Jeff Ma didn't mind having a white person portray him in this movie b/c it was a busines$$ decision and you do not want to call him a sellout.

Yet, what about the studio executives? Aren't studios also driven by money? Why cast aspersions on the studios, but not on Jeff Ma even though both were motivated by $$$$? At one point, Jeff Ma even said that he would be "insulted" if they had a Korean or Japanese American portray him for the sake of keeping the film's character with Ma's ethnicity.

I think Jeff Ma is to blame for this, though admittedly not to the extent of the studios.

[nameless]

However, to play Devil's Advocate here, you seem to have no problem acknowledging that Jeff Ma didn't mind having a white person portray him in this movie b/c it was a busines$$ decision and you do not want to call him a sellout.

Well, I don't really like to use the word sellout in any context anymore. I (now) feel that it's a pointless term that does more harm by distracting from other issues at hand (as if pointing fingers was productive anyway). Also, I didn't want to have the image of a "sellout" caller (lol)...and I wanted to make the point that Jeff Ma really shouldn't be seen as the voice of all AAs (not that Yeahman was saying that, but I have seen that point brought up in other website comments).

Yet, what about the studio executives? Aren't studios also driven by money? Why cast aspersions on the studios, but not on Jeff Ma even though both were motivated by $$$$? At one point, Jeff Ma even said that he would be "insulted" if they had a Korean or Japanese American portray him for the sake of keeping the film's character with Ma's ethnicity.

Personally, I'm just not letting these things get to me anymore. I've come to the conclusion that everybody is ignorant, greedy, and only focused on their own well being. I'm not saying it's okay, or that I wouldn't like to see it change. But now that I understand this, I don't see the point in addressing it any further. Labeling who is to blame and who is against us only serves to perpetuate our expectations of what people should be doing...which only makes us angrier when they inevitably don't.

[SunWuKong]

i'm not going to watch this movie. but i did read that one of the big difference between the movie and the real-life story was the motivation for why the team gambled. in the movie, the main character gambled to win tuition money, but Jeff Ma and the rest of the team gambled just for the thrill of winning against casino odds.

nevermind the race issue, i think that in itself is so shitty of Hollywood. this theme of doing something underhanded for an otherwise noble or justifiable reason is so fucking cliché. it's exactly this kind of shitty writing that so many people are actually finding reality TV more interesting - because most of what comes out of Hollywood is cliché after cliché that we've all seen before. about 100 fucking channels on cable and you find maybe 3 or 4 non-reality TV shows that are actually worth watching. a story closer to the real life story would have been so much more interesting, especially with the characters actually being Asian wiz-kids from MIT.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Re: Ma being a sellout or not.

I always had a huge problem with the "sellout" term as it is casually and recklessly thrown around in angry APIA circles. Certainly issues of self-esteem and distorted identity exist because of some of the bullshit AA's have to put up with but I'm guessing that the vast majority of these people in the media or whatever that we label as "sellouts" didn't have anything to sell out from in that they never made a conscious decision at any time in their lives to detach themselves from the APIA community(s) or any ethnic alliances they were attached to (in order to worship whitey, or whatever other dominant or superficial entity).

If you're referring to whitewashed Asian people that go on to marry white, star in movies that perpetuate Asian stereotypes, or approve of decisions that only serve to harm AA imagery or whatever, these people were whitewashed most likely from the beginning. They were never at any point committed to APIA issues nor did they ever hold strong ties to their ethnic communities. Certainly people that have consciously decided to say "fuck my Asian'ness" and just "gone white" do exist, but it is much rarer than the hordes of AA's who grew up in suburban middle class families alongside whites, and within a culturally white-dominant environment and simply absorbed outside influences, and ended up with an understandably apathetic attitude toward Asian issues and were more receptive to dominant white values.

The fact is that our country is still controlled majoritively by whites, and it's clearly reflected in the attitudes and personas of those who grow up either in white neighborhoods or with white friends. From this does come a slew of problems related to self-esteem, identity, etc. but I think we really need to stop holding all these Asian people in the spotlight to some type of moral criticism or standard, as if at one point or another they decided that their Asian mojo they had all along wasn't worth it anymore because white mojo is just the way to go and they committed some final act of betrayal to seal the deal.