View Full Version : invisible knapsack of female privilege
haplesshobo
06-19-2005, 12:02 AM
1. i do not need to pay for dates or split the bill despite the fact that i may make more money than the guy
2. i do not suffer from the pressure of society expecting me to earn enough to support a family even though my male partner must face those pressures
3. i can stay home and raise children without anybody questioning my feminitiy
4. if i want a date, i do not need to go through all the hoops and trials where i am viewed through the prism of my potential earning power
5. i can dress up every day, and wear a wide range of clothes and colors that interest and flatter me
6. if i want to have sex, i can always find willing partners
7. if i engage in a inapporpriate relationship with a underage boy, i will not be prosecuted to the full extent if the gender roles were reversed
8. i can wear pink clothing without anybody questioning my feminity
9. as a child, i did not need to physically asert myself on the playground or risk getting my lunch money stolen
10. men will open doors for me and help me carry my bags.
11. if a car sprays water, it will be my male companion who gets sprayed since he will be walking next to me, facing the street
12. virtually all of the morning and afternoon tv programs are geared to my interests
13. if i am conventionally attractive, then i receive more help and attention than men would receive
14. if i am in a relationship, then i am not expected to do the most physically exerting chores such as mowing the lawn or expected to fix items
15. i can give birth
16. i have the privilege of being unaware of my female privilege
hooligan
06-19-2005, 12:42 AM
You're so sexist.
deez nuts
06-19-2005, 09:31 AM
did you make this up? it's pretty witty.
but, you're on your own when the p.c. police comes knocking.
kimpossible
06-19-2005, 02:18 PM
fair's fair. i can take a list. i may not agree with all of it or think some of are a little inconsequential, but i can take a list.
7's very valid in light of the Mary Kay wedding deal. i see her as a molester but many people don't. #2 i'd say is valid as well.
9 isn't. i never got money stolen but i was in a lot of fights in school. with males.
i'd like to also add 17. As a boy you must always get the spider.
deez nuts
06-19-2005, 02:37 PM
8. i can wear pink clothing without anybody questioning my feminity
this is true. i own a couple of pink dress shirts. my co-workers and friends rip on me everytime they see me wear it. but, i'm lucky my huge muscles contrast the feminine color of the pink shirt as a result the women love it.
5. i can give birth
yeah. the women can have that one.
haplesshobo
06-20-2005, 03:56 AM
kimpossible:
i'm surprised any boys would get into a fight with a girl. that's not cool, and violates the unwritten rules of the playground.
CB:
Yes, I made up the list after I saw a similar list about the invisible knapsack of male privilege. I found some of the points in that list kindof dubious, so I figured I'd poke fun of that list by making up my own list. Only took me a few minutes, so it must mean I really must have some issuses with women.
Too bad about the PC police. I figured it would have been funny if all the guys here just started adding to the list.
About #5, you'd be surprised that a number of 'men' in France would like to have that privilege:
Associated Press
Jun. 13, 2005 10:34 AM
NEW YORK - Forget sympathy pains - nearly 40 percent of French men say they want to go through the real thing.
According to a poll published in the current issue of Children's Magazine, 38 percent of French men questioned say they wish they could be pregnant instead of their wives.
http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0613frenchmen13-ON.html
Nice rebuttal to the hate-on-men list.
kimpossible
06-20-2005, 07:46 AM
kimpossible:
i'm surprised any boys would get into a fight with a girl. that's not cool, and violates the unwritten rules of the playground.
Some of it was race related. I had some undeniably Asian features as a kid and my early school years were close enough after the Vietnam war.
Occasionally it was my own doing. I wouldn't go looking for anything but neither would I put up with too much.
Nice rebuttal to the hate-on-men list.
So it sounds like bringing up male privilege as an awareness issue on the constraints of women in our society ain't working like we [women] think it might?
No is a perfectly acceptable answer. I'd like to know if you honestly feel it's counter productive. When I read those lists I often reactively produce a counterpart 'expectations of males' list mentally because we do assign responsibilities and expectations based on gender roles.
SunWuKong
06-20-2005, 08:34 AM
4. if i want a date, i do not need to go through all the hoops and trials where i am viewed through the prism of my potential earning power
judging from the fact that i know or know of many women who are with dirt-poor guys, i don't necessarily agree with this.
but i do think that there are women out there who judge guys by their earning potential. i don't really care. it's a trade-off for guys judging women by how good they look or how easy they are to get into bed.
5. i can dress up every day, and wear a wide range of clothes and colors that interest and flatter me
i don't necessarily think women feel all that freely to do this either. to the best of my knowledge, women can judge each other pretty harshly by the way they dress. men, on the other hand, generally don't give a shit how other men are dressed under most social situations.
6. if i want to have sex, i can always find willing partners
i don't know about that. isn't this basically about your standards? whether you're a woman or a man, couldn't you always just find someone who is, so to speak, lower on the social ladder, to have sex with?
i'd like to also add 17. As a boy you must always get the spider.
or the rat - as was the case of my father when my family was living in a small apartment in an old neighborhood in HK when i was really little. but i actually think he had fun doing it. he put cardboard around the area of the apartment where the rat was, and let the dog in...
5. i can give birth
yeah. the women can have that one.
amen to that.
So it sounds like bringing up male privilege as an awareness issue on the constraints of women in our society ain't working like we [women] think it might?
No is a perfectly acceptable answer. I'd like to know if you honestly feel it's counter productive. When I read those lists I often reactively produce a counterpart 'expectations of males' list mentally because we do assign responsibilities and expectations based on gender roles.
In the context of these lists, no. The first list of male privileges did bring up some valid points that provided awareness, but quite a few of them honestly sounded like a bitter reaction to the way things were perceived through someone's eyes and may have been indicative of that person's perspective of a given situation. This is of course in contradiction to the touted factuality of said points. I must agree, though, that it might be almost impossible to be purely objective when it comes to a sensitive topic such as this.
It was in this respect that made the entire list counter-productive in my view, as I find it increasingly difficult for a female to know the 'male privilege' as it relates to the actual males that experience the perceived privilege first-hand. Now the list above I applaud not because it strikes points that I see are valid, or declare a female privilege at all, but because in my mind it was a rebuttal to the 'male privilege' list that this was in response to. The points above are all from a male point of view (as is in the male privilige thread), and as such are invalid as it relates to how females live their lives everyday.
What I'm trying to say, is that these types of lists are generally going to be inaccurate simply because they are not given from a first-hand perspective. They're all given from a 'the grass is greener on the other side' sort of stance. What you know as fact as it relates to the opposite sex is not fact at all, but a highly influenced perception.
It is my opinion that these lists would only make sense (or at least more sense) if a male were to list his perceived privileges according to his gender, and the same for a female to list her own gender-related privileges. In either case, any backhanded comments in regards to each respective 'privilege' would invalidate the entire list, and further perpetuate the gender privilege debate going on.
As a male, I find the female list of male privileges not necessarily overtly ridiculing, but it does come across (to me at least) as being written by a woman in an attempt to slap a disguised 'boys suck' sort of mentality upon the reader, despite the valid points. Conversely, I find the male list of female privileges a funny take on the age old 'girls vs. boys' grade school war.
kimpossible
06-20-2005, 10:29 AM
Personally, I'd like to see them re-labeled as gender role expectations. I think each has its own burden to bear. Or at least offer the burden of the gender role expectation as it relates to the privilege.
Like the expectation of the male to be the breadwinner in regard to the privilege of being assumed to be more competent for a leadership role and therefore more likely to paid more for the same job and be promoted. But maybe that's overkill.
Napoleon Chynamite
06-20-2005, 12:12 PM
8. i can wear pink clothing without anybody questioning my feminity
I'm guessing you meant "blue" or some other color deemed masculine in society~
All in all though, after looking through this list and other lists talking about privileges for certain groups and hardships that may arise out of prescribed gender roles, institutions, etc. ultimately it's due to a type of societal organization arranged, structured, and reinforced largely by males.
relus
06-20-2005, 02:56 PM
Feminists who take advantage of these are hypocrites. It's the reason why feminists disgust me, they think being feminine/girly is connected with being "weak" :p
missmeow
06-20-2005, 04:21 PM
His list is just as valid as the white privilege & male privilege lists.
thaite
06-20-2005, 04:31 PM
18) Having a baby entitles me to a three-month vacation from work, during which my co-workers will take up my slack. Upon my return I am entitled to my old position and pay, despite having fallen behind my coworkers in the day-to-day operations and knowledge of my workplace. Upon my return, I am also entitled to special flexible hours and impromptu days off, despite the disruption it may cause to my coworkers who have to fill in for me.
haplesshobo
06-20-2005, 04:57 PM
19. i cannot get drafted into the army
20. multiple orgasms
21. the bathrooms i use will be cleaner and nicer than the men's bathrooms
^--- I've heard, but have not confirmed, that women's restrooms can get pretty damn raunchy too. I have my doubts about such a claim, but that's what I've heard.
missmeow
06-20-2005, 05:10 PM
Our bathrooms are pretty sick. I like #18.
hooligan
06-20-2005, 05:32 PM
Feminists who take advantage of these are hypocrites. It's the reason why feminists disgust me, they think being feminine/girly is connected with being "weak" :p
Well, the problem is that they're takign the stereotypes of women and implicating them as privelege. While the male list deals with priveleges that men have, these are priveleges that were "given" to women. Dictated, by, none other than a man that hates on obese women. Let me give you examples that are a little more pertinent:
1. Asians are all smart so they can do well in school
2. Asians eat healthy so they have less health problems than "white" Americans
3. Asians are good in math, so they can earn great livings as engineers
AngryABCGirl
06-20-2005, 08:30 PM
I can bleed for a week and not die.
urbia
06-20-2005, 10:09 PM
Feminists who take advantage of these are hypocrites. It's the reason why feminists disgust me, they think being feminine/girly is connected with being "weak" :p
You do know that's a one-dimensional stereotype of feminists, right. It feeds the backlash stagnating women's rights.
haplesshobo
06-21-2005, 12:30 AM
I can bleed for a week and not die.
I wouldn't call that a privilge. In fact, it seems like a disadvantage since it means women need extra iron in their diet to compensate for the iron lost with the bleeding.
Our bathrooms are pretty sick.
I've always been under the impression that women's bathrooms were relatively nicer. As bad as they can get, they'd still be nicer than the men's next door.
Of course, I've got no proof for this. But, I do remember one time when I went to the men's bathroom and the woman's bathroom door swung open to reveal a glimpse inside: I saw flowers and furniture whereas the men's bathroom had none of those accesories.
I figured that was why women liked to go in groups into the bathroom, so they could go in toghether and tell you each other 'can you believe how great this bathroom is! aren't you glad i dragged you in?'
22. women can wear finer fabrics like silk without people questioning their feminity. (when's the last time you've seen a guy wear silk shirt to the office?)
23. women can wear revealing bathing suits to the beach without anybody questioning their heterosexuality. even though speedos are more functional, i've never seen a man wear one at the beach in america.
deez nuts
06-21-2005, 05:08 AM
I can bleed for a week and not die.
bwahahaha
hey i've said this phrase before and i got grilled for it. i gtuess you can get away with it cuz you're a woman.
the invisible knapsack of female privilege indeed.
Sorry but I don't feel underpriviledged as a male at all. I'm glad to be male and wouldn't ever want to be female. But I guess this thread was posted in a joking manner.
I used to think about these things a lot and how life might be easier if I were female. Then I made some female friends and talked with them about it. Even in fields that are supposedly more egalitarian, like the arts, it's tougher for females to get recognition. There's always this kind of "boys club" mentality which often also becomes the "white boys club" mentality.
deez nuts
06-21-2005, 07:09 AM
we get three weeks for paternity leave here. it's not three months a woman would get for maternity leave. but, i'd take the three weeks paternity leave instead of the three months maternity leave without going through nine months of pregnancy and then going into labor anyday.
hooligan
06-21-2005, 07:51 AM
I'm not female, nor do I consider myself a feminist. I believe that all oppression has the same roots and all oppression in one form or another is the same, whether it be racism, sexism, or heterosexism.
18) Having a baby entitles me to a three-month vacation from work, during which my co-workers will take up my slack. Upon my return I am entitled to my old position and pay, despite having fallen behind my coworkers in the day-to-day operations and knowledge of my workplace. Upon my return, I am also entitled to special flexible hours and impromptu days off, despite the disruption it may cause to my coworkers who have to fill in for me.
I used to feel pretty hostile towards filling in for co-workers while they attended to their children. But who is supposed to care for the children? Maybe we should just allow employers to discriminate against women of child-bearing age, as they did in the past.
In any event, I think part of the rationale behind the "three-month vacation" has to do with recuperating from a huge physical demand.
To separate mother from children and put them in daycare or nurseries is treating them like poultry. Humans aren't livestock. One study after another shows that children are better off with their mothers; there is biological evidence. Nurseries and orphanages create developmental problems. Even physical contact, stroking, done by the mother is beneficial to the child's brain.
In a society that is so obsessed about something "unnatural" being outlawed like gay marriage, why shouldn't the UNNATURAL separation of mother and child also be outlawed? I am positive that many of our social problems can be traced to poor upbringings and parenting, mainly because poor parents find themselves unable to raise healthy children properly while still maintaining a foothold in the rat race in order to feed themselves.
Our system does not allow the common family to properly raise a child with parental supervision. Society no longer understands or respects motherhood, just as it doesn't respect women in general. This is evident in the posts in this thread.
thaite
06-21-2005, 11:13 AM
i don't care if women want to be mothers. I don't care if they want to take time off work to have and raise their kids. But understand, that this life choice is also a career choice and an opportunity cost. What you choose to gain on the one hand, is also what you can lose on the other. When a woman takes time off her job to raise her family, and I'm at the office working long hours not only to do my job but to cover for her, those long hours need to count for me, and I need to be rewarded for that. I do have a life, too, and I enjoy my free time. I don't work just so she can come back and after three months off and resume her job where she left it.
Read this book. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684863030)
I used to work with this woman who complained about working weekends -- we all worked a weekend rotation once a month. But she complained because she felt that because she had kids, she shouldn't have to work weekends at all. Quote: "I have kids. I shouldn't have to work weekends just so (Thaite) can go out and party." Screw her.
Usually in countries where maternal leave is given, the employer hires a replacement or temp and the government reimburses the mother a certain % of her salary during her leave. This way the employer doesn't lose anything, jobs are created, and the mother gets to tend to her child.
haplesshobo
06-22-2005, 03:30 AM
I'm not female, nor do I consider myself a feminist. I believe that all oppression has the same roots and all oppression in one form or another is the same, whether it be racism, sexism, or heterosexism.
Well, we have to end apartheid for one. And slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.
24. if i go to the bathrooms designated for females, i will be sure that i will see a person of my own sex.
hooligan
06-22-2005, 09:09 AM
Well, we have to end apartheid for one. And slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.
24. if i go to the bathrooms designated for females, i will be sure that i will see a person of my own sex.
24. You mean gender and that's not true.
I think it's hypocritical to talk about racial equality without acknowledging gender equality. You're listing off specific issues without addressing the causes and overarching themes that influence these issues.
A.R.A.M.
06-22-2005, 11:05 AM
24. if i go to the bathrooms designated for females, i will be sure that i will see a person of my own sex.
This is so true. Why do women feel they can go into the men's bathroom with impunity? Maybe their bathrooms really are dirtier. Or maybe it's that ol' "potty parity" issue.
thaite
06-22-2005, 01:33 PM
Case in point, just today: Woman comes back from maternity leave. Her first week back and she asks me if I can work her Saturday shift for her -- so she can go to someone else's baby shower.
pikachupacabra
06-22-2005, 01:37 PM
I would hope that everyone could keep in mind that while there are definitely perks to being a women (I will definitely say that the American cultural expectation of men paying is a bonus!), the negatives of female "privilege" far outweight the positives.
deez nuts
06-22-2005, 01:46 PM
Case in point, just today: Woman comes back from maternity leave. Her first week back and she asks me if I can work her Saturday shift for her -- so she can go to someone else's baby shower.
lol wtf.
but, i can't really say shit cuz knowing me i'd milk the whole pregnancy and just having a baby thing to the max too.
Chester
06-22-2005, 04:54 PM
Umm...why are there dirty girls participating in our thread?
- I have enough free time to go to the mall...in the middle of the day...in the middle of the week.
BeTheReds
06-22-2005, 04:55 PM
4. if i want a date, i do not need to go through all the hoops and trials where i am viewed through the prism of my potential earning power
While that may be true, women must go through hoops and trials where they are viewed by how hot they are more than anything else. Good personality and ugly? No date. Super hot and a doofus? Marry her!
In the context of these lists, no. The first list of male privileges did bring up some valid points that provided awareness, but quite a few of them honestly sounded like a bitter reaction to the way things were perceived through someone's eyes and may have been indicative of that person's perspective of a given situation. This is of course in contradiction to the touted factuality of said points. I must agree, though, that it might be almost impossible to be purely objective when it comes to a sensitive topic such as this.
It was in this respect that made the entire list counter-productive in my view, as I find it increasingly difficult for a female to know the 'male privilege' as it relates to the actual males that experience the perceived privilege first-hand. Now the list above I applaud not because it strikes points that I see are valid, or declare a female privilege at all, but because in my mind it was a rebuttal to the 'male privilege' list that this was in response to. The points above are all from a male point of view (as is in the male privilige thread), and as such are invalid as it relates to how females live their lives everyday.
What I'm trying to say, is that these types of lists are generally going to be inaccurate simply because they are not given from a first-hand perspective. They're all given from a 'the grass is greener on the other side' sort of stance. What you know as fact as it relates to the opposite sex is not fact at all, but a highly influenced perception.
It is my opinion that these lists would only make sense (or at least more sense) if a male were to list his perceived privileges according to his gender, and the same for a female to list her own gender-related privileges. In either case, any backhanded comments in regards to each respective 'privilege' would invalidate the entire list, and further perpetuate the gender privilege debate going on.
As a male, I find the female list of male privileges not necessarily overtly ridiculing, but it does come across (to me at least) as being written by a woman in an attempt to slap a disguised 'boys suck' sort of mentality upon the reader, despite the valid points. Conversely, I find the male list of female privileges a funny take on the age old 'girls vs. boys' grade school war.Then why didn't you have a similar response to the "Invisible Knapsack of White Privilege" list if you're so against these kinds of lists?
Chester
06-22-2005, 11:27 PM
So it sounds like bringing up male privilege as an awareness issue on the constraints of women in our society ain't working like we [women] think it might?
Speaking for myself, I wouldn't know. That is, when I read, in a thread, that I'm forbidden from making a response, I stop reading the thread.
lethal
06-23-2005, 12:16 AM
Then why didn't you have a similar response to the "Invisible Knapsack of White Privilege" list if you're so against these kinds of lists?
I don't think he said that he was against these kinds of lists. He just said that they'd reflect a different view vis a vis lists made of people of that gender (or race).
Unless you can point out where he said he's against these kinds of lists in his post.
haplesshobo
06-23-2005, 02:22 AM
Then why didn't you have a similar response to the "Invisible Knapsack of White Privilege" list if you're so against these kinds of lists?
Maybe, cause he knew if he pointed out that some of those points were kind of dubious or silly, he'd be immediately attacked as racist and sexist...
Some of the points in all the lists were just weak or didn't make much sense, including mine as well. But, notice, how nobody pretty much dared to challenge any of those points on the other lists.
24. You mean gender and that's not true.
I specifically used the word 'sex' because that was what the list about male privilege was using, not gender.
25. i can objectify men as sexual objects without being called a pig or sexist
Then why didn't you have a similar response to the "Invisible Knapsack of White Privilege" list if you're so against these kinds of lists?
nola, my response to the list was 'Bravo for reciprocating the male privilege list'. If someone were to create an "Invisible Knapsack of Asian Privilege" list then I would also commend the effort and wit involved, if any.
The post that you quoted was in response to kim's question in regards to these types of lists. And if you notice, I have the same philosophy towards all lists of this format. I don't dislike these lists. They're funny and witty, and I don't take them seriously.
Cmon, admit it, you just mad cuz you got served. :tongue:
Napoleon Chynamite
06-23-2005, 02:31 PM
24. if i go to the bathrooms designated for females, i will be sure that i will see a person of my own sex.
Why would I want to see a person of my own sex (or any person for that matter) if I go to a public bathroom in the first place? I prefer to pee alone above all else. And is there some trend with women going into the men's restrooms and not vice versa?... cause that's new to me also~ Unless you guys just live in weird ass places, I'm usually pretty certain that everyone I see inside a public restroom will be male.
In the context of these lists, no. The first list of male privileges did bring up some valid points that provided awareness, but quite a few of them honestly sounded like a bitter reaction to the way things were perceived through someone's eyes and may have been indicative of that person's perspective of a given situation. This is of course in contradiction to the touted factuality of said points. I must agree, though, that it might be almost impossible to be purely objective when it comes to a sensitive topic such as this.
It was in this respect that made the entire list counter-productive in my view, as I find it increasingly difficult for a female to know the 'male privilege' as it relates to the actual males that experience the perceived privilege first-hand. Now the list above I applaud not because it strikes points that I see are valid, or declare a female privilege at all, but because in my mind it was a rebuttal to the 'male privilege' list that this was in response to. The points above are all from a male point of view (as is in the male privilige thread), and as such are invalid as it relates to how females live their lives everyday.
What I'm trying to say, is that these types of lists are generally going to be inaccurate simply because they are not given from a first-hand perspective. They're all given from a 'the grass is greener on the other side' sort of stance. What you know as fact as it relates to the opposite sex is not fact at all, but a highly influenced perception.
It is my opinion that these lists would only make sense (or at least more sense) if a male were to list his perceived privileges according to his gender, and the same for a female to list her own gender-related privileges. In either case, any backhanded comments in regards to each respective 'privilege' would invalidate the entire list, and further perpetuate the gender privilege debate going on.
As a male, I find the female list of male privileges not necessarily overtly ridiculing, but it does come across (to me at least) as being written by a woman in an attempt to slap a disguised 'boys suck' sort of mentality upon the reader, despite the valid points. Conversely, I find the male list of female privileges a funny take on the age old 'girls vs. boys' grade school war.537 says "these lists" all the time. Well if he's talking about more than one list and the only other one in existence is the white privilege list and he has no problem with that one. The male privilege one is based on the white privilege one so is very similar. So why don't you guys have the same empathy for women that you have for yourselves as Asians?
I did not get served and rarely do get served because I'm so often....right.
Let's start an Invisible Knapsack of Asian Privilege and see if the kind of support of that list.
haplesshobo
06-23-2005, 03:17 PM
the white privilege list was also kinda stupid as well. some of the points were just ridiculous. i just ignored that first list. it was only when i saw the second list about male privilges, that i decided to satarize the whole list phenomenon.
this attitude a little shrill and shrewish at times. just cause we disagree with you or any of your ideas does not necessairly make us racist or sexist.
if you want to look at the responses, notice how people here have been way more critical towards the points i raised in my thread than the other lists.
you're such a bullshitter and dont have a clue about sexism. i'm starting the invisible knapsack of asian privilege and seeing if it gets the same response as this one, that is, 46 responses.
Chester
06-23-2005, 04:10 PM
26. I can voice critical comments about the opposite sex without my comments being viewed as a product of institutionalized discrimination.
Replace "the opposite sex" with "another ethnicity" and you've got #1 for that upcoming "Knapsack of Asian Privilege" thread.
the whole list phenomenon.You have a low threshold for invocation of "phenomenon".
this attitude a little shrill and shrewish at times. just cause we disagree with you or any of your ideas does not necessairly make us racist or sexist. No, but your choice of "shrill and shrewish" seems to suggest precisely that. About you.
537 says "these lists" all the time. Well if he's talking about more than one list and the only other one in existence is the white privilege list and he has no problem with that one. The male privilege one is based on the white privilege one so is very similar. So why don't you guys have the same empathy for women that you have for yourselves as Asians?
I did not get served and rarely do get served because I'm so often....right.
Let's start an Invisible Knapsack of Asian Privilege and see if the kind of support of that list.
Count these:
Male Privilege (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=11865) (which you were so kind to post)
White Privilege (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=24364&highlight=privilege)
Female Privilege (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=24456&highlight=privilege)
I say "these lists" because that is correct form when referring to a plural noun.
In regards to me having a problem with "these lists", I have none, and have stated as such in each of my posts. Where do you come off telling me that my light-heartedness equates to hatred? I honestly do not understand.
As for 'so often being right', I completely disagree. You have so far displayed none of the reading comprehension skills required for your statement to be true.
I advise you to read (or re-read) my posts, what context they were written, and what they were written in response to.
Oh please I did not post the male privilege thread. An Asian male did.
You don't understand sexism or male privilege although you understand white privilege. Sexism=hatred of women.
Spare the condescension. I often don't have to read details because I've read far too much of the same crap and know the gist of most posts. I am usually right regardless of crap I don't need to read.
deez nuts
06-23-2005, 04:36 PM
27) i can comment and critique posts in the men's forum without the mod (yours truly) telling you to shoo shoo go away.
haplesshobo
06-23-2005, 05:42 PM
No, but your choice of "shrill and shrewish" seems to suggest precisely that. About you.
whenever i disagree with nola about any issue, nola always says that i do it because i hate women. look at the wal-mart thread where she stated some facts about walmart, which i happened to wonder outloud how true they were. cause i did that, her first response was that i did it cause she was a woman. she didn't even bother to look at her ideas to see if they were misinformed by incorrect facts or numbers.
or, the mari matsuad essay. because i disagreed with her philosphy on affirmative action, nola accused me of hating the essay cause mari matsuda is a woman. in her mind, it has nothing to do with that i simply disagreed with matsuda's essay.
anytime, somebody makes a joke about something, she swoops in and starts calling us women haters.
28) if a man challenges my comments or ideas, i can always call ignore those comments by calling the man sexist.
29) i do not have to actually read other people's comments before i can call them sexist or racist
i guess i can post here again...
nice try, haplesshobo. with the mari matsuda thread i never agreed with affirmative action in higher education or employment. as i stated a million times that was the reason I didn't agree with the whole essay. i am for class-based affac as i stated a million times. i do think it is the best representative essay thus far for the asian american movement and if you find a better one post it and if you write a better one post it. you won't find a better one. i get sick of everyone dismissing anything asian women say or do because we're asian women.
most ppl here or in the united states (who isn't a frat boy or a redneck) would agree that you are sexist.
Fireblade
06-23-2005, 07:55 PM
30. ) I can call myself a "Bitch", and use it as a form of empowerment. Whereas a member of the opposite sex who is straight, should they use the term, would be labeled as a sexist pig.
That's like a white guy calling you a "chink". We can call our selves "chinks" and it's fine. Gays can call themselves queers and be fine with it.
We are oppressed minorities who would rather not have to reappropriate the names given to us by oppressors in the first place.
Fireblade
06-23-2005, 08:11 PM
That's like a white guy calling you a "chink". We can call our selves "chinks" and it's fine. Gays can call themselves queers and be fine with it.
We are oppressed minorities who would rather not have to reappropriate the names given to us by our oppressors in the first place.
It's still a privilege... the minority status using slurs to empower than to degrade. In this case, a privilege that is granted to women, and gays (because for some reason, sexual orientation allows for them to call women "bitch" and not get any sort of backlash against him). Should I use that term in the same way towards a woman, even though I'm using it in a way to empower her, despite intent, the attitude towards me would still be hostile.
And no. "Chink", in my opinion, should NEVER be used for empowerment. That's like calling a korean "Gook" or a vietnamese person a "Charlie" or a japanese person "Nip". A slur is still a slur.
31. When convienient, we shall point out the inequalilty in the sexes, but when it comes down to fair physical labor, we shall undoubtly point out that as part of the female sex, we are weaker/smaller, etc., and urge the male sex to take up the slack. For example, when moving things out of an apartment.
nice try, dude.
queer and chink are reappropriated by gays and asians. it's hardly a privilege to call yourself queer or a chink. it's more a statement that gays and asians are oppressed by heterosexism and racism. women don't call themselves bitches any more than we call ourselves chinks.
why can there only be one bitch and 50 assholes in any given place and why do we only get upset when the bitch says something?
that says everything we need to say today about male privilege.
Fireblade
06-23-2005, 08:29 PM
32. As a woman, I can call all men, at any point, a pig, even if said male supports feminism and equality towards the sexes. Because of my understanding of my status as a female within this overgrown male privileged world, I can lash out and alienate men. Should they even meekly try to point out that they're only supporting your ideas about the inequality of the sexes, the sheer fact that they are male, leaves me wary of them. Therefore male pigs must die. All of them.
yeah, men need to collectively shape up or ship out.
missmeow
06-23-2005, 09:00 PM
nola sounds no different about men than some of you carry on about white people.
nola sounds no different about men than some of you carry on about white people.
HAHAHAHA
haplesshobo
06-23-2005, 09:41 PM
. i get sick of everyone dismissing anything asian women say or do because we're asian women.
This is what I'm talking about. When did we ever dismiss something just cause its a woman that says or does something?
Yet, that's what you're always charging any man with doing. If you look back on that thread about masuda, as somebody mentioned that they didn't agree with her, you started firing away that they did that because matsuda is a woman.
Or, we'll be talking about something completely different, and you'll start attacking the men because we're not talking about women oppression.
nola sounds no different about men than some of you carry on about white people.While the analogy is faulty, it would benefit a lot of guys here to think of the similarities between pushing for racial and sexual equality. Both fights are ultimately the same fight and we're doing ourselves a disservice by fracturing into smaller factions.
As much as it may not seem like it, we're setting ourselves up as specimens for others to observe. These posts are archived and indexed by search engines, leading so many random strangers to our views. We have a good number of lurkers and we are making impressions on them. We need to promote uniform egalitarianism for our own benefit.
golden_buns
06-23-2005, 10:20 PM
19. i cannot get drafted into the army
Makes me wish I was a girl
20. multiple orgasms
I wanna be a girl, NOW
21. the bathrooms i use will be cleaner and nicer than the men's bathrooms
uhhh....but the lines and waiting time are freaking long.
I think I'll just stick with being a guy.
Both fights are ultimately the same fight and we're doing ourselves a disservice by fracturing into smaller factions.
what is this, a race war? people have a right to vent about percieved injustices, whether it's gender or racial. I find it annoying that some of the women posters are quick to point a finger, and accuse us of wronging them in some way. Hell I don't even know them, and I find it annoying and belittling. Treating grown adults like scolding toddlers. What the women can start a thread about percieved injustices, but men can't? yeah ok, who's setting the double standard now?
Oh please I did not post the male privilege thread. An Asian male did.
You don't understand sexism or male privilege although you understand white privilege. Sexism=hatred of women.
Spare the condescension. I often don't have to read details because I've read far too much of the same crap and know the gist of most posts. I am usually right regardless of crap I don't need to read.
You can't read, can you?
haplesshobo
06-24-2005, 12:31 AM
nola sounds no different about men than some of you carry on about white people.
i hope we don't sound like that.
imagine what that would be like:
everytime we talk with a white person about something, we start throwing out the whole white power as soon as they disagree with us...
i'll be discusing whether or not tim duncan is the greatest power forward of all time with a white person. as soon as he disagrees with me, i start saying 'its all about white power. you can't understand it cause you're white.. the fact that you disagree with me proves you're racist'.
frankly, i was a little embarrased by the whole invisible knapsack of white privilege thing; some of the points were just rather dubious. i started a thread about female privileges instead of asian privileges cause i knew nola and hooligan would start calling me a 'house nigger', 'surrogate white', 'uncle tom', etc.. all over again if i posted an asian privilges thread.
27) i can comment and critique posts in the men's forum without the mod (yours truly) telling you to shoo shoo go away.
i welcome somebody like kim joining this thread; she recognized that this list wasn't intended to oppress women. kim didn't come in and start attacking men for coming up with a list like this.
what is this, a race war? people have a right to vent about percieved injustices, whether it's gender or racial. I find it annoying that some of the women posters are quick to point a finger, and accuse us of wronging them in some way. Hell I don't even know them, and I find it annoying and belittling. Treating grown adults like scolding toddlers. What the women can start a thread about percieved injustices, but men can't? yeah ok, who's setting the double standard now?
LOL... Ok Tony... You know me and I scold you all the time. :biggrin:
Seriously though... Yes you do have the right to voice your opinion regarding anything you feel is an injustice. But come on Tony... I know you don't believe that men face as much hardships as women. Try being a woman and a minority... It's a double edge sword. I mean, you know I have a high threshold for playful banter and whatnot but I can grow tired of all the jokes and comments as well. Much in the same way that you might get sick of hearing racial jokes from a white person. If this forum was not open to women as well then that would be different but we are all trying to achieve the same goal here. However, the YW women just happen to deal with racism and sexism. Therefore, seeing that this is a public forum geared towards APIA issues then would it be so inappropriate to request the same type of respect and seriousness for women's issues that is given to APIA issues? And it's not a double standard when this thread was made in jest or mockery of the original post.
Now quit your whining and fetch me a sammich! :tongue:
deez nuts
06-24-2005, 04:49 AM
i guess i can post here again...
i never said you couldn't post here and you thought i was kidding about me letting womyn post here while understanding why womyn want their own space in the womyn's forum.
deez nuts
06-24-2005, 05:22 AM
and no guy really likes a sausage fest.
BaiginLong
06-24-2005, 06:36 AM
33. I never have to worry about whether the child is actually mine.
golden_buns
06-24-2005, 06:50 AM
However, the YW women just happen to deal with racism and sexism.
Us asian guys are seen as affeminate by non-asians,
so let's fight together sisters!!!!!~~~
BaiginLong
06-24-2005, 06:55 AM
Us asian guys are seen as affeminate by non-asians,
so let's fight together sisters!!!!!~~~
That definitely did nothing to rid us of that image.
34) My talent and competance (or lack thereof) in a career (especially in the enteratinment industry) is usually supplemented by my looks.
note: This one is a double edged sword...in some cases also applies to men but less so.
lethal
06-24-2005, 08:49 AM
i guess i can post here again...
This may be one time where CSB is actually more patient than me.
Considering that a women's forum mod has asked men to stay out of that forum, I would not consider it out of the question for the mods in this forum (or at least 1 mod (me)) to ask you not to post in here if your primary motive is to criticize the men.
We've not taken that step yet, but if you want to rant, the appropriate forum is the "Rant Room."
A.R.A.M.
06-24-2005, 10:45 AM
Brief time out from the war...
And is there some trend with women going into the men's restrooms and not vice versa?... cause that's new to me also~ Unless you guys just live in weird ass places, I'm usually pretty certain that everyone I see inside a public restroom will be male.
In all the dormitories I have ever lived in, many female residents felt they could use the men's restroom whenever they wanted. But each time the rare male defiled that hallowed goddess-space known as the women's restroom by stepping foot into it because it was more convenient, the smack down was layeth upon him.
I have also encountered women in men's restrooms in bars. Oh, and some girls carried out a form of psychological warfare in my high school by leaving their used tampons on the urinals in the boys' restrooms. While that isn't using the boys' restroom per se, they did enter it...
Back to the war...
haplesshobo
06-24-2005, 03:46 PM
35. while there are terms like mysogynist for a man who hates a woman because of her gender, there really aren't any similar terms for women that hate men just because of their gender.
deez nuts
06-24-2005, 04:30 PM
36)it's not as bad when i call a guy a cock. it's like the end of the world when a guy calls me a cunt.
kimpossible
06-24-2005, 04:34 PM
it's like the end of the world when a guy calls me a cunt.
I usually get one of those per week. While I'm used to it now, it ain't a privilege either. :smile:
deez nuts
06-24-2005, 04:44 PM
I usually get one of those per week. While I'm used to it now, it ain't a privilege either. :smile:
you can help a brother out and tell that to the OR nurse that threatened to report me to human resources cuz i called her a cunt after she called me a cock cuz i insisted on doing an equipment count for the second time after my procedure i just finished.
should i report her also?
kimpossible
06-24-2005, 04:51 PM
why not? (report her, i mean)
HR ought to love that. Name calling between a doctor and a nurse. HAHAHAHAHA.
pikachupacabra
06-24-2005, 04:55 PM
why not? (report her, i mean)
HR ought to love that. Name calling between a doctor and a nurse. HAHAHAHAHA.
That sounds really suspiciously like the start of one of those pornos. Doctor calls nurse cunt. nurse calls doctor cock. They come to blows, one slips over the surgical table, clothes rip off, and the next scene has a sepia filter on it and some "boom chicka boom chicka bow wow" music going.
Perhaps my mind wanders.
you can help a brother out and tell that to the OR nurse that threatened to report me to human resources cuz i called her a cunt after she called me a cock cuz i insisted on doing an equipment count for the second time after my procedure i just finished.
should i report her also?Report her for engaging in foreplay?
Edit: D'oh! Pika beat me too it.=P
kimpossible
06-24-2005, 04:59 PM
Secretly, she craves the bao's hot, meaty, juicy filling. And don't we all.
Report her for engaging in foreplay?
Or say you thought it was a word assocation game.
pikachupacabra
06-24-2005, 05:06 PM
Report her for engaging in foreplay?
Edit: D'oh! Pika beat me too it.=P
Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
haplesshobo
06-24-2005, 05:51 PM
37. i can check out fellow women and comment on how beautiful i find those women with nobody calling me sexist or casting doubt on my heterosexuality.
if a guy does this to women, then he's accused of objectifying women and being sexist.
or, if a guy comments on how attractive another guy is, people question his heterosexuality.
35. while there are terms like mysogynist for a man who hates a woman because of her gender, there really aren't any similar terms for women that hate men just because of their gender.I believe you're looking for misandrist.
missmeow
06-24-2005, 07:41 PM
35. while there are terms like mysogynist for a man who hates a woman because of her gender, there really aren't any similar terms for women that hate men just because of their gender.
battleaxe, ballbuster, penisgrinder, LESBIAN...
of course you can be all technically correct like ism ;)
John0101
06-25-2005, 07:29 AM
ok, stop.
All these "privileges" stem from stereotypes of females. As long as these privileges exists sexism will exist.
BaiginLong
06-25-2005, 11:19 AM
ok, stop.
All these "privileges" stem from stereotypes of females. As long as these privileges exists sexism will exist.
33 is not what I call a stereotype. It is a biological truth.
Napoleon Chynamite
06-25-2005, 12:23 PM
In all the dormitories I have ever lived in, many female residents felt they could use the men's restroom whenever they wanted. But each time the rare male defiled that hallowed goddess-space known as the women's restroom by stepping foot into it because it was more convenient, the smack down was layeth upon him.
Well actually yeah, this happened at my dorm also. Even after signs were put up to tell women to stay out, they continued to do so (supposedly). But I guess I never had any bad experiences with it, nor did I ever actually see a woman in the bathroom, so maybe that's why I don't see it as a problem.
Craig
06-25-2005, 01:53 PM
33 is not what I call a stereotype. It is a biological truth.Except where there is a hospital mixup, which seems to happen too often ...
BaiginLong
06-27-2005, 02:06 AM
Except where there is a hospital mixup, which seems to happen too often ...
Hospital mixups happen a lot less than cheating.
38) Withholding sex can force the hand/decisions of my significant other or win an argument.
39) "You're sleeping on the couch tonight." The weapon of not so last resort.
40) I can render my significant other completely helpless through the power of reorganization. (i.e. "Honey? Where are my socks?")
Hospital mixups happen a lot less than cheating.
38) Withholding sex can force the hand/decisions of my significant other or win an argument.
39) "You're sleeping on the couch tonight." The weapon of not so last resort.
40) I can render my significant other completely helpless through the power of reorganization. (i.e. "Honey? Where are my socks?")
Ugh. Enough.
Hiroshi2
06-27-2005, 02:15 PM
This is such an interesting thread, cause you know women rule the world anyway.
I'd rather things be purely equal in an upfront way with equal representation, pay, etc. Women wouldn't have to be manipulative, passive-aggressive, work behind the scenes or however we get our power. BaiginLong's example of women withholding sex is very manipulative and passive-aggressive.
I'd rather things be purely equal in an upfront way with equal representation, pay, etc. Women wouldn't have to be manipulative, passive-aggressive, work behind the scenes or however we get our power. BaiginLong's example of women withholding sex is very manipulative and passive-aggressive.
That is something we both agree on.
I also would go further to say that these are an extremely personalized trio of expressed examples, and should definitely not be taken seriously.
hooligan
06-27-2005, 03:44 PM
ok, stop.
All these "privileges" stem from stereotypes of females. As long as these privileges exists sexism will exist.
This needs repeating.
Hospital mixups happen a lot less than cheating.
38) Withholding sex can force the hand/decisions of my significant other or win an argument.
39) "You're sleeping on the couch tonight." The weapon of not so last resort.
40) I can render my significant other completely helpless through the power of reorganization. (i.e. "Honey? Where are my socks?")
How's the gf search going?
BaiginLong
06-27-2005, 06:05 PM
Meh those I came up with after watching a few family sitcoms. Ray Romano would know about them. I'm done. Honest.
Nola turned my snide joke to a good point though...I was expecting the complete opposite but I guess this makes sense too.
haplesshobo
06-27-2005, 06:52 PM
I'd rather things be purely equal in an upfront way with equal representation, pay, etc.
if we're talking about doing the same job and somebody that has the same qualifications, etc..., then i don't think anybody is going to argue against equal pay.
but, why equal representation for something that might inherently favor one gender over the other? should the police and military have 50% women just for the sake of having equality? or, something where brute strength is needed?
or, in the case where somebody mentioned a woman taking time off for pregnancy, should she still be given the same amount of money as her co-workers despite taking time off. for example, in 10 years, she's had 3 kids and needed to take a total of about 1 year for that. her coworker, a male, started at the company the same time she did but didn't need to take time off.
should their salaries be equal after those ten years because they started at the same time?
Fireblade
06-27-2005, 07:32 PM
but, why equal representation for something that might inherently favor one gender over the other? should the police and military have 50% women just for the sake of having equality? or, something where brute strength is needed?
I do agree that the army should be more equal in the ratio of men and women, but ironically, the people who want less women in the military are... *drum roll please* MEN. So this isn't the issue that women getting the privilege to not go into the army. Mainly, due to politicans, and the some of the right wing, they prevent some women to go into certain areas of the military. So really... the people who want more men in the military, are actually Men.
Hiroshi2
06-28-2005, 12:03 AM
1. i do not need to pay for dates or split the bill despite the fact that i may make more money than the guy
2. i do not suffer from the pressure of society expecting me to earn enough to support a family even though my male partner must face those pressures
3. i can stay home and raise children without anybody questioning my feminitiy
4. if i want a date, i do not need to go through all the hoops and trials where i am viewed through the prism of my potential earning power
5. i can dress up every day, and wear a wide range of clothes and colors that interest and flatter me
6. if i want to have sex, i can always find willing partners
7. if i engage in a inapporpriate relationship with a underage boy, i will not be prosecuted to the full extent if the gender roles were reversed
8. i can wear pink clothing without anybody questioning my feminity
9. as a child, i did not need to physically asert myself on the playground or risk getting my lunch money stolen
10. men will open doors for me and help me carry my bags.
11. if a car sprays water, it will be my male companion who gets sprayed since he will be walking next to me, facing the street
12. virtually all of the morning and afternoon tv programs are geared to my interests
13. if i am conventionally attractive, then i receive more help and attention than men would receive
14. if i am in a relationship, then i am not expected to do the most physically exerting chores such as mowing the lawn or expected to fix items
15. i can give birth
16. i have the privilege of being unaware of my female privilege
Ah, women rule the world. What's new?
Seriously though - I don't understand why women trip and say men rule the world anyway? Don't they know that even if they're ugly (well, if you're ugly, obviously you'll need a little bit of alcohol too), with your pussy, somthing that's God-given and something you didn't have to pay a single dime for, you can get a man to do anything you want?????? That's power man.............
deez nuts
06-28-2005, 08:15 AM
a womyn can fight tooth and nail to gain entrance into an all male country club. can a man fight tooth and nail and join an all female gym? i would like to join a lucille roberts.
a womyn can fight tooth and nail to gain entrance into an all male country club. can a man fight tooth and nail and join an all female gym? i would like to join a lucille roberts.
Actually, yes... The all women’s gym I used to workout at, before I got equipment for my house, had two male members. They were life partners but male nonetheless. ^_^V
Oh yeah, and they had several male personal trainers on staff as well.
kasia
07-03-2005, 01:19 PM
1. i do not need to pay for dates or split the bill despite the fact that i may make more money than the guy
2. i do not suffer from the pressure of society expecting me to earn enough to support a family even though my male partner must face those pressures
3. i can stay home and raise children without anybody questioning my feminitiy
4. if i want a date, i do not need to go through all the hoops and trials where i am viewed through the prism of my potential earning power
5. i can dress up every day, and wear a wide range of clothes and colors that interest and flatter me
6. if i want to have sex, i can always find willing partners
7. if i engage in a inapporpriate relationship with a underage boy, i will not be prosecuted to the full extent if the gender roles were reversed
8. i can wear pink clothing without anybody questioning my feminity
9. as a child, i did not need to physically asert myself on the playground or risk getting my lunch money stolen
10. men will open doors for me and help me carry my bags.
11. if a car sprays water, it will be my male companion who gets sprayed since he will be walking next to me, facing the street
12. virtually all of the morning and afternoon tv programs are geared to my interests
13. if i am conventionally attractive, then i receive more help and attention than men would receive
14. if i am in a relationship, then i am not expected to do the most physically exerting chores such as mowing the lawn or expected to fix items
15. i can give birth
16. i have the privilege of being unaware of my female privilege
this is hilarious. not to mention comparable to our complaints on issues such as difference in earning power, sexual harassment, and rape.
if whites created a similar asian male list (and i'm sure many have) we'd find it similarly hilarious, right?
i'll start with that list:
1) no need to worry about a girl complaining that it's too big because it never will be.
i roll my eyes now.
haplesshobo
07-03-2005, 01:32 PM
if whites created a similar asian male list (and i'm sure many have) we'd find it similarly hilarious, right?
i'll start with that list:
1) no need to worry about a girl complaining that it's too big because it never will be.
i roll my eyes now.
and, i would answer that its all about lowered expectations.
the woman would be in for a BIG and pleasant suprise when we get into the bedroom.
its like when you go to see a movie where has been hyped to be the best movie always, and you always leave disappointed afterwards. its the movies where you didn't come in with any expectations that you find enjoyable.
kasia
07-03-2005, 01:35 PM
and, i would answer that its all about lowered expectations.
the woman would be in for a BIG and pleasant suprise when we get into the bedroom.
its like when you go to see a movie where has been hyped to be the best movie always, and you always leave disappointed afterwards. its the movies where you didn't come in with any expectations that you find enjoyable.
i generally wouldn't go to a movie that received horrible reviews. are you telling me that you don't believe stereotypes are harmful?
haplesshobo
07-03-2005, 01:47 PM
well, when you sterotype asians as being politically progressive so that if an asian does not share the same beliefs that you do and so you're going to label them as not a real asian...
yes, then that sterotype is harmful.
kasia
07-03-2005, 01:54 PM
well, when you sterotype asians as being politically progressive so that if an asian does not share the same beliefs that you do and so you're going to label them as not a real asian...
yes, then that sterotype is harmful.
sounds like someone has a chip on his shoulder. my only point in my post was that i think sexism is wrong and that i am more disappointed that someone who has been the target of some sort of group discrimination cannot relate to how women feel about sexism. it's as simple as that.
DragonKnight
07-03-2005, 03:34 PM
sounds like someone has a chip on his shoulder. my only point in my post was that i think sexism is wrong and that i am more disappointed that someone who has been the target of some sort of group discrimination cannot relate to how women feel about sexism. it's as simple as that.
Sorta like a person that smells like shit. Probably doesn't notice since they're so used to it being a part of them. Sexism is the same. A lotta men are just so used to it its a part of the culture.
...but that's no excuse by any means. Like with white America during the Civil Rights movement you need to shove that shit in their face and make'em see (even swallow) what they are doing.
I agree, us men need to do some real critical thinking in realizing the sexism that has been established in our society and our participation (even encouraging) of it all. It may be a subject that reaches out to all male communities, but as we are an Asian Advocacy based forum community, it should be addressed within our own Asian community in particular here.
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