Anti-Hapa movement

[kimpossible]

We're talking the term and political stuff... not the people.

Modding this forum is the closest to a political hapa agenda I've ever had, so I'm largely ignorant of organized hapa movements out there. I've become aware that there is some sort of dissent or backlash against the term or organizations through the posts here.

So here's the thread. Hash it out. Should the term hapa not be used? And someone give more stories about these groups on campus and why you hate them so much. A lot of us don't have any experience with them.

If push comes to shove, I usually identify myself as eurasian in English.

[thaite]

Well, the word hapa sucks because:

1) It's been co-opted from the Hawaiian language, which only pisses off the Hawaiians.

2) It's supposed to be a term that I can use to refer in a general to my (multi) ethnicity, except that I always have to explain what the word means in the first place. That ain't very useful.

3) Hapa Issues Forum (http://www.hapaissuesforum.org) is located in San Francisco, which I find to be a lovely city, but the people absolutely annoying. The place crawls with political correctness and toe-the-line liberalism -- I can't speak plainly and say one damn thing without offending somebody.

[Craig]

I don't think most people in the USA, regardless of race really identify with people of mixed ancestry. So, if you tell them "hapa" or "Eurasian", they are still likely to not know what you mean. Maybe "Eurasian" sounds like it's something they think they should know, or perhaps they can grab something out of the context. "Hapa" meanwhile may be something they could interpret, is that some "tribe" or "ethnic" name. The path of least resistance is sometimes just to let people think whatever they want to think as long as it doesn't bother you; Well, other than thinking that some people are blind, stupid and ignorant, but that's not something you can fix.

[BeTheReds]

Well without echoing what buoy wonder said...

If the origin of the word means someone who is half hawaiian and half white then it really doesnt apply to me at all. I probably would feel as if Hawaii was a foreign country just as I feel that California is. (I'm from MD)

The term applies to me as much significance as calling a Japanese Chinese.

It also denies me status as a Korean-American, which is what I would consider myself. I wouldn't find the same cultural bond with a guy who has a White dad and a Chinese mom as I would with a full blooded Korean-American of the non-adopted variety.

Basically it is a more specific term of "other". I've always detested "other". But it still doesn't explain anything at all.

Never been to a hapa group but I became interested in one in Cali but never went because it was so far away.

www.halfkoreanpage.com

check it out if you are interested.

[kimpossible]

We might be able to change the forum name. I'm not really attached to it one way or another but I would like constructive suggestions for a replacement name. One of the alternatives was Mixed Asian I believe. I personally don't like the term mixed Asian but if let's put it through the democratic process.

I'd like to clarify that on this subject I'm kind of a fence sitter; I don't have any love or hate for the term hapa. This might be because I never had to deal with some of the more facist campus uber-liberalism that you guys have. My social group is comprised mainly of fobs.

So, alternative name suggestions highly desired and appreciated. We can bring the request to achtungbaby. And by all means guys, feel free to start topics like this yourselves.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Oct 24 2002, 06:39 PM
We might be able to change the forum name. I'm not really attached to it one way or another but I would like constructive suggestions for a replacement name. One of the alternatives was Mixed Asian I believe.
hahaha. if the term become popularized i guess my (once-daily, then never, now weekly) blog would suddenly start get lots more hits. but personally I don't like it that much more either. In writing I'll sometimes use mixed-race Asian, but it sounds a bit unwieldy and makes people just think of "half Chinese half Korean" or stuff like that.

[digiaks]

Here is are 2 cents (and a little more)...

* Hapa 'derives' from Hapa Haole. It is not the same word.

* Hapa the partial Asian is not the same word as Hapa in the Hawaiian language meaning half.

* Almost every word in the english language derives from another country. So this one was taken from the Hawaiian language. It happens. It is not being use in a duragotory way to put down Hawaii.

* No one has to use the word or feel like the word defines them. Many ethnic names are not accepted by everyone of that group. Mulatto, Hispanic, Latino, and African American are just a few.

* I was first called a Hapa by someone from Hawaii about 10 years ago. Since then I have been called Hapa quite a few times (I live in an area with lots of Asians). So when you get called something enough times, and it is not negative, you start to believe it.

I do not see what is the big deal if Hapa is used. If you don't want to be called Hapa that is completely cool with me. I respect that. However, the word is not used in a duragotory way to insult any race so unless you are god you should not tell people what they are or are not allowed to identify themselves with.



<!--EDIT|digiaks|Oct 24 2002, 09:00 PM-->

[digiaks]

One of the alternatives was Mixed Asian I believe. I personally don't like the term mixed Asian but if let's put it through the democratic process.

Any word you find I can guarantee someone will have a problem with it. I would keep the current name. It is a newer term, but I think it best encompasses the group you are focusing on. Even if some people do not like the word.

Eurasian (does not include hispanic/asian, also Russia is not in Europe)
biracial (this would include all mixes like black/hispanic or you have 3 or more races)
multiracial (might not have any asian in you)
Amerasian (not everyone here is american)
Mixed Asian (Korean/Japanese would be included)

No one word exists, I think that is why the term Hapa is emerging to identify this particular group of people.

Lastly. I do not believe an Anti Hapa movement is emerging. I think it is quite the opposite. Back in the 80's Hapa was used as a derogatory term. To be part Asian was a bad thing. However the word is being accepted more then it ever has before. Of course some still do not like it and that is fine. Ethnic names about a group that is so diverse is going to have people that object to any type of name calling.



<!--EDIT|digiaks|Oct 24 2002, 07:47 PM-->

[thaite]

I demand that from now on you all refer to me as Thaite, to reflect my Thai and white Heritage. No further notice is necessary. All newbies will be expected to know without asking, or else get their balls busted.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by buoywonder@Oct 24 2002, 03:14 PM
I demand that from now on you all refer to me as Thaite, to reflect my Thai and white Heritage. No further notice is necessary. All newbies will be expected to know without asking, or else get their balls busted.
I will now refer to your game as being Thaite also, BW.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Oct 24 2002, 01:39 PM
We might be able to change the forum name.
no don't change it! the name is a reference to the fact that you are the queen of your domain.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by buoywonder@Oct 24 2002, 12:14 PM
I demand that from now on you all refer to me as Thaite, to reflect my Thai and white Heritage. No further notice is necessary. All newbies will be expected to know without asking, or else get their balls busted.
I got no balls. Will you bust Sun Wu-kung's in my place?

[BeTheReds]

Well again I don't hate it so I don't object to it being used.

But it's not something easily identifiable like Blasian or :grin: Mulatto or Thaite.
If I say I am hapa then i'll still have to explain in detail my family history.

Mixed Asian is not so good either but I don't object to it.

Half Asian works fine because ive rarely had to explain further than that.

Also for me... the conotation of Hapa is white dad asian mom, and to tell you the truth, it makes a world of difference which parent is white and which one is asian.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 24 2002, 06:24 PM
Also for me... the conotation of Hapa is white dad asian mom
Heh. I feel that way about the term AmerAsian. As in white military dad and foreign Asian wife. It makes me feel like Colonial Baby. Which may be the truth for me, but it still sounds way skanky to me.

[digiaks]

Also for me... the conotation of Hapa is white dad asian mom

Actually the conotation of any partial mixed Asian is white dad and Asian mom. And the fact is most people of partial Asian ancestry do have a non-white dad and Asian mom.

I never heard of Hapa meaning that your dad is more white.

[digiaks]

Here is a pretty long thread on this subject if anyone is interested. It is from a hapa forum. It gets pretty interesting later on in the thread.

http://www.hapas.com/dforum.asp?fid=1&acti...ic=42&curpage=1 (http://www.hapas.com/dforum.asp?fid=1&action=view&topic=42&curpage=1)

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Oct 24 2002, 10:52 AM
hahaha. if the term become popularized i guess my (once-daily, then never, now weekly) blog would suddenly start get lots more hits.
Give me your permission and I'll pin a topic with a link to your page. Same goes for you digiaks. I know you guys have other link options on the main YW page - but I'll be more than happy to stick one up in this forum.

[digiaks]

I actually went to high school with Tiger Woods. Little did I know he was going to blow up so much. I will probably add him and his accomplishments in the notables section.

Give me your permission and I'll pin a topic with a link to your page. Same goes for you digiaks.

That would be cool Hello_Hapa. Thanks =)


AliBabaIncorporated.

If you want I can add a link to your site on www.hapas.com. (yellowworld is already linked). I am also accepting pics of people with partial Asian heritage.




<!--EDIT|digiaks|Oct 25 2002, 06:45 PM-->

[maldito]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Oct 24 2002, 06:39 PM
We might be able to change the forum name. I'm not really attached to it one way or another but I would like constructive suggestions for a replacement name. One of the alternatives was Mixed Asian I believe. I personally don't like the term mixed Asian but if let's put it through the democratic process.

I agree w/ digiaks. Leave the name as Hapa. I know what is meant by the term, and certainly am aware of the origin and the change of meaning throughout time.

Mixed Asian is okay, but you already have the term Hapa.

[maldito]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 25 2002, 02:24 AM
Also for me... the conotation of Hapa is white dad asian mom, and to tell you the truth, it makes a world of difference which parent is white and which one is asian.
And here we go again with various people defining the word for themselves. I being part Hawaiian do not call myself Hapa. But I call my cousins Hapa Haole b/c they are half white. Many people in Hawaii see "hapa" literally as half, but that's not the only meaning.

I do know of some people whose father is Asian and mother is white. Not very common but on livejournal.com in the hapas community someone just asked that question. My friend's father is from China while his mom is Nicaraguan. Not white, but still, it's different from the normal white father asian mother.

And, my great-great grandfather was Chinese while his wife, my great-great grandmother was Hawaiian.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by maldito@Oct 27 2002, 12:16 AM
I know what is meant by the term, and certainly am aware of the origin and the change of meaning throughout time.
well of course you do, you're from Hawaii, where the word originated. rest of us don't have that same benefit from our life history.

[maldito]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 25 2002, 02:24 AM
Also for me... the conotation of Hapa is white dad asian mom, and to tell you the truth, it makes a world of difference which parent is white and which one is asian.
The word hapa is not widely used anyway so how it can have the connotation of a white father asian mother is beyond me.

But what do you mean it makes a difference which parent is white and which is asian? Are you saying the union of a white male to asian female is different than the opposite? Or are you specifically targeting a certain generation? Because I could do the same thing too and target all the Chinese males in the 1800s with Hawaiian females, and come up with the assumption that all Hawaiians their Chinese blood from a pure Chinese female, which isn't an assumption but fact. :)

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by maldito@Oct 27 2002, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 25 2002, 02:24 AM
Also for me... the conotation of Hapa is white dad asian mom, and to tell you the truth, it makes a world of difference which parent is white and which one is asian.
The word hapa is not widely used anyway so how it can have the connotation of a white father asian mother is beyond me.

But what do you mean it makes a difference which parent is white and which is asian? Are you saying the union of a white male to asian female is different than the opposite? Or are you specifically targeting a certain generation? Because I could do the same thing too and target all the Chinese males in the 1800s with Hawaiian females, and come up with the assumption that all Hawaiians their Chinese blood from a pure Chinese female, which isn't an assumption but fact. :)
The notion that Hapa has for White dad Asian Mom is because thats mainly who it is used to describe. Perhaps I am taking a seperatist standpoint, but that's just how I feel.

Yes, I am saying that having an Asian dad and a White Mom is completly different from the opposite. To say that it isn't is a very very uneducated statement.

I don't exactly understand the second thing you are talking about. I am neither Chinese nor Hawaiian so I don't have much to say about it either.

[maldito]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Oct 27 2002, 07:34 AM
well of course you do, you're from Hawaii, where the word originated. rest of us don't have that same benefit from our life history.
But me being from Hawai'i has nothing to do with it. Many other people from Hawai'i who no longer live there weren't aware of the use of "hapa" specifically for Asians of mixed decent. Because as I said, the word originated to mean one thing, then later we saw it meaning another thing and now here on the mainland people have a different definition of it. Of which many people from Hawai'i are NOT aware of, at least not yet.

[maldito]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 28 2002, 06:28 AM
Yes, I am saying that having an Asian dad and a White Mom is completly different from the opposite. To say that it isn't is a very very uneducated statement.

I don't exactly understand the second thing you are talking about. I am neither Chinese nor Hawaiian so I don't have much to say about it either.
So you think that whether the mother is Chinese, Filipino, Korean, Japanese or any other ethnic Asian and a white father regardless if the father is American or European, that their upbringing are all the same compared to the opposite? Like how?

The second thing I was talking about is the same as you. Saying that since most Chinese Hawaiian children were the result of Chinese men and Hawaiian women, that a Hawaiian Chinese (Or Chinese Hawaiian, either way same thing) but of the union of a Chinese female and a Hawaiian male are different. Only thing I could see that would be different in that is if the child from the union of the Chinese female vs. that of a child from the union of the Chinese male are from different eras in history. Other than that, I can't see any difference.

And to take that whole thing further, wouldn't it be different anyway if the results of the marriage and residence were in Asia vs. the US? That way even if the sex were the opposite (Asian male & white female) they still would be different if they resided in Asia vs. the US.

[BeTheReds]

I don't see what you are getting at.

Of course if someone's mother is chinese, then his upbringing and experiences would be different than his friend who has a japanese mother. Their upbringings would not be the same.

What I am saying is this.

Me= Korean Dad and White American East Coast Mom

Friend=White East Coast Dad and Korean Mom

Differences: Me: Asian name Friend: western name
Me: Neo-Confucianist expectations from a father raised in a neo-confucianist society and the angst that goes along with that when trying to work that in after raising a son in the States where such expectations do not exist in tht dominant culture.
Friend: Dad is White, got to do what he wanted when he grew up, wasn't pushed or forced into doing anything by his parents, thus the same goes when he raises his daughter.
Me: Fairly weak in the Korean language due to the fact that most children spend more time with their mothers and because in the states we are educated in English.
Friend: Speaks conversational Korean due to the same reason as listed above. Naturally English is her native language since she was raised in the USA somewhere besides Koreatown.

Now, definately she and I probably have more in common with each other than we would with a chinese/white hapa, but because our parents are opposite combinations id have to say that we at times can't relate to each other at all.

[maldito]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 28 2002, 09:33 AM
Now, definately she and I probably have more in common with each other than we would with a chinese/white hapa, but because our parents are opposite combinations id have to say that we at times can't relate to each other at all.
But from the examples you gave me, this can apply to anything and anyone! The Asian parent could be westernized to begin with not to mention where the family lives, all has a role in whether or not the children will be speaking the language or not. Hell, my Visayan grandmother raised me and didn't speak any English. Did I come out speaking her language, at least conversationally? No. And neither did anyone else in the family with the exception of her eldest daughter.



<!--EDIT|maldito|Oct 28 2002, 02:33 PM-->

[digiaks]

Bethereds,

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion and I have no ill feelings towards you. Just expanding the current conversation.

You talk about how any educated person would know the difference between a white dad versus an Asian one, but your reasoning is so bad. I doubt you have every taken an Asian American studies class in your life.

For you to make such huge stereotypes based on one aspect of a person is flawed in so many ways that it made me laugh when I read it.

If you have a German Father and Polish mother and vice versa then you would be raised differently. If you had a Japanese Father and Korean mother and vice versa you will be raised differently. However would that child really be considered as different as you make it out to be?

Here is the real issue. And it is not just which race the parent is. Everyone assumes your dad is white, dumb, and from the army and your mom is one step above an Asian prostitute. I am sure you make it a point to let people know that your parents are educated and that your dad is in fact the Asian one. You do not want to be associated with the terrible stereotype associated with all mixed Asian children. You want people to know that you are not one of them. Because to be one of us is less. Yep, my dad is white, my mom is Asian, neither is educated, and I was poor as phuck when I grew up.

And hapa does not mean white dad. Being mixed in general means white dad. Call it whatever you want the stereotype exists. People will still look at you and think that your parents are like mine. I am sorry this has been placed on you. That is what sucks about racism.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by digiaks@Oct 28 2002, 09:49 PM
Bethereds,

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion and I have no ill feelings towards you. Just expanding the current conversation.

You talk about how any educated person would know the difference between a white dad versus an Asian one, but your reasoning is so bad. I doubt you have every taken an Asian American studies class in your life.

For you to make such huge stereotypes based on one aspect of a person is flawed in so many ways that it made me laugh when I read it.

If you have a German Father and Polish mother and vice versa then you would be raised differently. If you had a Japanese Father and Korean mother and vice versa you will be raised differently. However would that child really be considered as different as you make it out to be?

Here is the real issue. And it is not just which race the parent is. Everyone assumes your dad is white, dumb, and from the army and your mom is one step above an Asian prostitute. I am sure you make it a point to let people know that your parents are educated and that your dad is in fact the Asian one. You do not want to be associated with the terrible stereotype associated with all mixed Asian children. You want people to know that you are not one of them. Because to be one of us is less. Yep, my dad is white, my mom is Asian, neither is educated, and I was poor as phuck when I grew up.

And hapa does not mean white dad. Being mixed in general means white dad. Call it whatever you want the stereotype exists. People will still look at you and think that your parents are like mine. I am sorry this has been placed on you. That is what sucks about racism.
Dude,

I've taken one Asian American experience class in college and decided to stop there after I found out what they were teaching, which was basically that White people are evil and are the reason for all of the world's problems. I did a survey when it was my turn to present something, and I wrote: what is the difference between an Asian-American woman and an American woman? The correct answer should just be that the question is flawed because it's like saying what is the difference between fruits and apples? But the answers I got back were that the American woman is bigger, the Asian woman is prettier, and stupid crap like that. Anyway this is off topic so lets adress the rest of the post.

I was not trying to look down on other mixed people and seperate myself from them, but then again are we really together? Are we one community with similar interests and goals or all we all simply forced together because society expects us to be?

The only thing I was trying to say was that it matters which parent is white and which parent is asain as to the upbringing the child recieves. I was in no way suggesting at all that my situation is superior to yours. I am also not suggesting that all mixes from from the same parental background would be the same, every family is different. However, for the most part, people in my situation have more in common with each other than people in the opposite.

Would the child be considered different by the public? No. I never claimed once that it would. In my other post did I say that Asian people will welcome me more than they would you because of my parental combination? No, I did not. I know soceity lumps us all together, but just because that's what happens, does not mean that our upbringing are the same.

People never look at me and assume that I am mixed, they assume that I am a white guy with a severe asian fetish. Then they find out what my last name is, and THEN the assumptions come rolling in. Funniest one I heard is that I am a Korean war orphan and my mom didn't know who my father was so that's why I kept her name. The Korean war was like 50 years ago!

Yea, racism sucks, I hear you. But please know that I was not at all attempting to hurt anyone by what I was saying.

[digiaks]

Okay, I probably jumped to quick on making accusations and conclusions on you. My bad.