Promoting an Asian Perspective

[achtungbaby]

I've been getting quite a few emails lately (primarily from whites) about the seemingly apparent hypocrisy of having a site that promotes diversity and equality -- and calling it "yellowworld."

I got news for ya: yellowworld is for Asians.

My $1 response:

While diversity and equality are values we uphold, the site itself is devoted to creating a community committed to developing an Asian political and social consciousness. And while this isn't mutually exclusive of diversity, nor does it exclude or discourage persons of other racial and ethnic backgrounds, it is a step towards a positive reclamation of ourselves, our culture, our history, and moving towards a perspective that removes whites from the periphery of our concsiousness, and compels us to define who we are, what we are, and what we want, damnit.

[ChairmanMah]

sounds good to me.

basically what you said was that this is a minority site where we have the majority.

This is where we discuss issues concerning ourselves.

[Rogmok]

werd.. i agree.

this site provides us an avenue in which others share a similar passion and viewpoint in terms of ethic awareness and racism.

We, as a minority, do not have the luxury of being able to discuss issues and baggage we have as a minority because in most cases.. we are the minority. Thus I feel forums such as this are essential in creating awareness for Asians AND non asians as to issues we face in socity.

As for the term "yellowworld.org" prolly not the most PC of names.. but its just a name... we're talking about purpose here..

[achtungbaby]

It's kinda funny because a few of the larger, national Asian organizations were a little put-off by our name, and reluctant to join the petition campaign because they were afraid of being branded as some totally flaming-liberal minority activists. As if. Sometimes I think I'm still a conservative (but not most of the time).

The name "yellowworld" originated from online discussions I'd had with other Asians across the country. I'm in Los Angeles, and was born and raised here, and definitely feel lucky that my perspectives on Asian issues/culture have been influenced by the large Asian communities here. Unfortunately, a lot of other Asians are pretty much alone out there in a sea of white; consequently, I think, it's influenced their perspective, too, sometimes negatively.

I think we should all have an opportunity to live and breathe around people who look and talk just like us, as opposed to always being the outsider or foreigner or one who's had to strip everything away to fit in.

[tapestrybabe]

Right On!
Diversity is all good...
Getting peoples different perspectives is all good...
Everyone is welcome to this site no matter what background people come from...

But Yellowworld site is dedicated to US ASIANS...
And everyone else are just outsiders...

[nicedream]

I was one of those in a sea of white. And for most of my young life, I rejected who I was. I think a site... or community like yellowworld would have helped me in those times.

[Rogmok]

Originally posted by nicedream@Oct 20 2002, 03:30 AM
I was one of those in a sea of white. And for most of my young life, I rejected who I was. I think a site... or community like yellowworld would have helped me in those times.
werd.. me too

[achtungbaby]

*bump*

[Arex]

Amen!

Alex

[SunWuKong]

i never even knew that referring to Asians as being yellow is supposed to be offensive until white people mentioned that it should be offensive to Asians.

oh the irony...

[Grass Monkey]

Okay, a mission statement. I hereby dub this site, Yellowworld.org, complete. :D

Well, Connecticut is mostly black and white, and there are only a handful of Asians here. We fight a never ending war.. The front is messy and bloody, it is.. Okay, so it's just the cafeteria ketchup you see at our school walls. Our Janitors aren't exactly five-star. :lol:

[artsfartsyjanet]

I was raised in a sea of whites, so to speak...and honestly, I did think about the name "Yellowworld" because race is a socially constructed phenomenon and the name "Yellowworld" sounds like skincolor doesn't lie on a continuum. I really didn't agree with the word yellowworld initially because of its socially constructed cannotation, but I fully support its efforts to combat practices that perpetuate stereotypes and other pervasive injustices. I like it's focus, and I like how people of different backgrounds are participating in these forums as a medium to express the diversity of our views. Overall, AB, I think what you're doing deserves a two thumbs up. :)



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Oct 23 2002, 07:48 PM-->

[achtungbaby]

Thanks. Just a reminder: "yellowworld" has little to do with skin color...

[Chris]

Great Statement AB!

w00t!

[chris_lewis108]

Asian American Unity: Divided We Fall
By Julia Oh
Special to ModelMinority.com
February 20, 2003

Lately, Asian Americans have been making me proud. Irwin Tang made me proud with his tell-it-like-it-is style in an article for AsianWeek, which confronted Shaquille O'Neal's racist taunts against Yao Ming. The Asian American Student Association at Stanford University made me proud when they decided to hit the streets of San Francisco to protest against Abercrombie & Fitch's racist caricature t-shirts. Karen Narasaki and the APA Media Coalition made me proud when they loudly denounced icebox.com's racist cartoon "Mr Wong." I know that I am not the only Asian or Asian American who felt proud by the actions of these valorous members of our community.

Lately, Asian Americans have also been making me feel depressed. Whether it was following the A&F T-shirt scandal, icebox.com's "Mr Wong" cartoon series, Disguise Inc's "Kung Fool" Halloween mask, or Shaq's Yao Ming comments, there was a significant voice from within our community that felt that all of these reviling acts/incidents were "funny," or that those who were offended "need to relax."

full story (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=315&mode=&order=0&thold=0)

[MellowDrama]

Pretty fair. And I agree that you have the right to not come out against blatant racist stereotypes. But please, don't come back bitching when someone calls you a gook, chink, or pulls that ching-chong shit on you, because by not speaking out against the stereotypes, you are a part of the problem.

[kangal]

Warning: controversial notions befitting for flaming.


The "joke" begins w/ a legacy of hatred and discrimination against Asians in America since 1600.

First off, I didn't realize that Asians were here since the 1600s. Not to be snide, but that was just a fact I never knew. Secondly, I don't know if it is necessarily a "legacy of hatred" that has been placed upon Asian Americans. The article seems to make a very strong case for an "us vs. them" mentality. While I believe that unity is important, I think that it should be a united fight of Americans in general. Also, I am a bit put off by the anti-white rhetoric. For example:

Asian Americans must wake up to the reality that we do not have access to white privilege.

I just don't think that the attitude of white America being our enemy is the best mindset to have. The article constantly hammers in the fact that white people are intent on holding us back. Now I won't be naive and say that none of white America is like that, but I believe that that number is not a great percentage. The article just reminds me of articles that I've read written by Louis Farrakhan. And I definitely hope that the Asian movment is not headed in that direction.

Asian labor is still grossly and disproportionately exploited by sweatshops

I'm not sure exactly what this refers to? Although there may be technically some sweat shops in the US, the National Labor Board does a pretty fair job in regulating wages and hours. And, if there are illegal sweatshops, they are often owned by fellow Asians who have illegal immigrants working on them. Correct me if I'm wrong.


official reports from 41 states and unofficial reports to NAPALC and its Affiliates showed that as many as 486 anti-Asian Pacific American incidents were reported.

The only problem with these reports is that often statistics are skewed. Often, any crime that includes an Asian-American is considered a hate crime, regardless of the race that committed a crime. Now, a white-on-Asian crime is the most obvious hate crime, but is an Asian doing something to another Asian considered a crime?

And, just to defend the South again as not being necessarily the worst place for Asians, this comes straight from the NAPALC website:

3. A majority of the hate crimes against APAs (379) were documented in California, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York.

For the year of 2001, there were about 530 reported incidents. Thus, about 80% of the crimes were found in those 5 states. I Despite the constant notion of the South and its Confederate past, you can peruse through the NAPLAC, there was no race-based murders that occurred in the South. don't know what to take of those stats, but it seems that it is saying something. In my opinion, it shows that in areas with high minorities, there is higher rate of hate crimes. But, one has to look at the definition of a hate crime:

Any act of intimidation, harassment, physical force or threat of physical force directed against any person, or gamely, or their property or advocate, motivated either in whole or in part by hostility to their real or perceived race, ethnic background, religious belief, sex, age, disability, or sexual orientation, with the intention of causing fear or intimidation, or to deter the free exercise or enjoyment of any rights or privileges secured by the Constitution or the laws of the United State of California whether or not performed under color of law.

This includes almost every characteristic about a person. Almost any crime can be construed as a hate crime. Thus, it seems fair to say that the crimes that included Asians were pretty easy to be seen as a hate crime. Now, I don't doubt that hate crimes exist because that would be naive. But the fact that the definition of a hate crime is so broad, I can easily see that the numbers could be inflated. If a white were to rob an asian woman and call her a stupid old bitch, that would be a hate crime as it is directed against their age and sex. I don't consider that a racially motivated crime, but it would be seen as such when called a "hate crime."

[YuheiCarreau]

Kangal,

This article is standard Julia Oh: White bashing and 'sellout' bashing masquerading as a message of empowerment. Not much more to it than that.

[kangal]

This article is standard Julia Oh: White bashing and 'sellout' bashing masquerading as a message of empowerment. Not much more to it than that.

DAMN.....that info could have been useful...i worked my ass off digging up that info too ...oh well...i hope someone gets a kick reading it ...thanks for letting me know ;)

[MellowDrama]

It is irefutable fact that Asians were shitted on in American society. and there is some remnants of that today (though it is a lot better). I don't consider bringing up historical context "white bashing."

I read it twice through, and I cannot find any "white bashing" in that article. The message is basically, go ahead and laugh at the stereotypes and let them slide if you want, but if and when they boomerang and smack you in the ass, don't go running back crying "THEY MADE FUN OF ME!" because you didn't do shit when they were "just joking."

[VV o n g B a]

actually, from what i've read about hate crimes, it seems if anything they go underreported and are misclassified. the people who are victims of racial assault and harassment often don't go to police b/c they don't trust cops. while that may be their own fault, it skews the numbers of hate crimes up.

and here is an example of misclassification (at least in my judgement) :mark wahlberg case (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=225)

they failed to classify this case as a hate crime for two reasons. the first was that during the incident "vietnam fucking shit" was used. not a defined asian slur. and second, when he did utter slurs such as "gooks" and "slant-eyed gooks," it was unsolicited. the vietnamese men were not being attacked when he said this.

so while u have reasons why hate crime numbers are inflated, there are reasons why the numbers are actually deflated.

[kangal]

Point out to me where in Julia's article is she white bashing. If the article is white bashing to you, then the very things with do on Yellowworld are. Then pointing out "Kung Fool" is white bashing. Then the Coble removal petition is white bashing. Is Shaq white? Julia's article is about empowerment. There's nothing funny about racism and yet we have Asians and Asian Americans within our community running in defense of the offenders. In YW forum, we have a thread about apathy. These are hindrance to an Asian America united.

Pointing out consistently that we have to fight the white power can be found in the entire article. When she writes about affrim. action, why did she not say that Blacks were taking our places in colleges? Maybe it was her choice of words, but it would she seemed not to mind dropping "white" wherever possible. The word white appeared 7 times in the article, while no other race was expressly accused of holding Asians back. True, whites are in power, but they are not the only ones hindering us. As for running to the defense of the offenders, I feel that that itself shows that there isn't apathy. Perhaps they believe that unity is colorblind and that you should fight for the rights of all races that are oppressed. While I support the struggle, I believe that you can't put down another for the benefit of yourself, because that isn't right. Do we weant justice and equality only Asians? I hope not. And, lastly, I say these things because I am expressly against a "group mentality" of thinking. Thinking alike is good, but desiring everyone to think the same without dissent leads to problems.

[chris_lewis108]

when i read the article i took the references to "white" as being a representation of the society we live in, and american mainstream society's roots are "anglo",

now many argue that america is a so called melting pot, i disagree, the largest minority influence i see in mainstream american society is mainly in entertainment, and that is black american pop culture, now this in itself is something that was created as a specificly american identity since black americans have lost the influences of thier original culture throughout the slave trade era, as far as other original cultures coming from immigrants of other nationalities there hardly are almost none that effect mainstream american culture, so instead of blending of all cultures i see it as more or type of comformity, instead of the pot melting into something new, everything that gets thrown into the pot turns into what is already in it, the minority in order become accepted comforms to the ways of the greater group, which in our situation happens to be white

regardless of if we like to admit it or not american society and in it's way of thinking is white made, and the majority of the powers that be are still white, the cast of the mold which has set many issues we face was created by whites, and to ignore the fact that historical factors effect what people endure today is to not fully understand what the problem realy is

i don't think this is white bashing, i think the general message was to point out the fact that the problems that we face were set by the ways of the society in which we live, but the only way we will see any progress in overcoming those problems is when there is more unity among asians in america as a whole

[kangal]

Ok. You all have made very valid points. Unfortunately, I cannot defend myself fully as I admit that it was very early and I wasn't thinking straight. The main reason for my tirade was that I felt it was an article directed at Asians such as myself. I don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with her views, and thats ok.

[angel nympho]

What if I genuinely don't agree with a majority of Asian Americans on certain subjects? I don't want to be lumped in with the rest of them. I'd rather be an individual and gain respect my own way. By being an American? I'm with you, kangal, reading that article felt more like it was directed towards Asians like me rather than Asians everywhere.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by chris_lewis108@Feb 23 2003, 12:22 PM
when i read the article i took the references to "white" as being a representation of the society we live in, and american mainstream society's roots are "anglo",

now many argue that america is a so called melting pot, i disagree, the largest minority influence i see in mainstream american society is mainly in entertainment, and that is black american pop culture, now this in itself is something that was created as a specificly american identity since black americans have lost the influences of thier original culture throughout the slave trade era, as far as other original cultures coming from immigrants of other nationalities there hardly are almost none that effect mainstream american culture, so instead of blending of all cultures i see it as more or type of comformity, instead of the pot melting into something new, everything that gets thrown into the pot turns into what is already in it, the minority in order become accepted comforms to the ways of the greater group, which in our situation happens to be white


my one grief with those that proclaim the melting pot theory is that of what you just had to say. if society is generally prescribed by whites, or specifically descendants of european caucasians, there is no culture really. it's more like as cultureless caucasians, we make shit up to feel we have culture, or latch onto another cultures aspects. in some ways i see myself doing that, i guess partly out of a sense of nothingness that other non-whites seem to have; culture. i don't proclaim that culture as mine, but i do take some of it's doctrines and many aspects into my own self culture. however, most caucasians don't do this, or do it negatively by proclaiming themselves of said non-white cultures.

the melting pot theory innately makes minority groups like cultureless caucasians. i feel that this is the worst thing for anyone to do. culture is something to be proud of, and something to represent. we are all different and will never be the same, however, we can work with one another to understand eachother and allow ourselves to go above our physical and cultural differences. a melting pot is where you take scrap metals and turn it into one ugly weak combination metal. this isn't something we should want. in my opinion, as a caucasian, we're [caucasians] already screwed. we've jumped into the pot first and dragged as many as we can into it. caucasians overly defend themselves from the billows of hatred blowing on the fire of the pot, but our hands are the ones blowing them.

if we were all one color, one race, i would still hope that there is cultural representation to bring some diversity.

as for ingrates like ms. oh, who seems to proclaim the need for a "yellow" panthers group in the asian community, i say go ahead. if you want to cause more problems and hatred by proclaiming that the yellow people should take up a fight against all other peoples to earn the respect that she feels they don't have in ignorance, all i can say is brush up on your european history; caucasians have already done things similar in the name of righteousness. do you really want the yellow people to have the sordid history of hatred, fear, and xenophobia that caucasians have had and spread around the world?

:cry: if so, i feel bad for you.

[MellowDrama]

Ahem, where the fuck is the "hatred"?

jesus christ, all she's saying is stick the fuck up for yourselves!!!

When someone calls you "CHINK" or "GOOK' fight back!

Tell them THAT'S WRONG!!

That's all she's saying!!!

/me rips out my hair (what little I have left)

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by MellowDrama@Feb 24 2003, 11:09 AM
Ahem, where the fuck is the "hatred"?

jesus christ, all she's saying is stick the fuck up for yourselves!!!


hi, read more of her articles, think about the things she is leading to. this isn't just a proclamation of "stick the fuck up for yourselves".

and either way, a medical walkout...hmm, that's productive, i'm sure many patients or families of patients who died or could have been saved would really love asian americans after that. and i'm sure they would love to hear what they have to say as to why they didn't first uphold their position as a doctor and save people vs. trying to send a message to the rest of the US that, "hey, we're asian americans, and we're sticking the fuck up for ourselves...hmm...mind the casualties of our thoughtless action though."

she's not necessarily proclaiming hatred in this article but she's setting a stage that could lead to more problems within the asian community or other communites having problems with the asian community.

to ms. oh i say, "shut the fuck up. think, then speak. realize the consequences of actions you say should be done. when you're young and burn yourself on a stove you learn that shit, maybe i should've thought first. practice this simple idea."

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by MellowDrama@Feb 24 2003, 01:09 PM
Ahem, where the fuck is the "hatred"?

jesus christ, all she's saying is stick the fuck up for yourselves!!!

When someone calls you "CHINK" or "GOOK' fight back!

Tell them THAT'S WRONG!!

That's all she's saying!!!

/me rips out my hair (what little I have left)
See, I don't get that from this article. Except for the first paragraph, she does nothing to encourage the AAs who are already activists; the rest of the piece is snidely directed at those AAs who choose not to criticize Shaq or A&F. Statements like "it seems that for every positive stride in the political arena a member of our community makes, there are also those who take us a step back" and "some of you may not even feel the need for pan-Asian unity... but should you one day find yourself [facing discrimination]... you may begin to realize that the world we live in rotates on its own axis, one that makes no exceptions for the individual" don't sound much like empowerment to me. They sound more like "anyone who disagrees with MY opinion on these situations is not only wrong but a detriment to Asian Americans".

[ellsworth81]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 24 2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by MellowDrama@Feb 24 2003, 01:09 PM
Ahem, where the fuck is the "hatred"?

jesus christ, all she's saying is stick the fuck up for yourselves!!!

When someone calls you "CHINK" or "GOOK' fight back!

Tell them THAT'S WRONG!!

That's all she's saying!!!

/me rips out my hair (what little I have left)
See, I don't get that from this article. Except for the first paragraph, she does nothing to encourage the AAs who are already activists; the rest of the piece is snidely directed at those AAs who choose not to criticize Shaq or A&F. Statements like "it seems that for every positive stride in the political arena a member of our community makes, there are also those who take us a step back" and "some of you may not even feel the need for pan-Asian unity... but should you one day find yourself [facing discrimination]... you may begin to realize that the world we live in rotates on its own axis, one that makes no exceptions for the individual" don't sound much like empowerment to me. They sound more like "anyone who disagrees with MY opinion on these situations is not only wrong but a detriment to Asian Americans".
hehe, i guess you don't like Oh's stuff. :lol:

depending on how you look at it ... you could interpret it as a guilt trip .... or as encouragement

Ideally though, if you make any un-PC/racist type judgments or preconceptions, then that makes you should be able to receive. In other words, if you talk mad shit, expect people to talk mad shit back to you. But in this day and age, it's so hard to be non-judgmental. It's almost instinctual for us ... because it just makes things easier.

On another note, alot of ppl feel that "stickin' the fuck up for yourself" isn't necessarily the answer, because it can create hostility and may in turn dig an even deeper hole for APAs. In fact, stickin' up for yourself may even undermine the original intents. For instance, I've been told that African-American's have this stigma associated with them ... that they "whine" and "complain" rather than just overcoming hardship and achieving. I don't know if this attitude is still prevalent or not among Americans, but is there a way to strike a balance between "whining" and simply "protesting"? If we don't stick up for ourselves at all, how do things change? how does the racism go away if ppl don't protest/oppose it?

moreover, we have to really determine how much leverage that APAs have in this country. As an extreme example, ants can complain all they want about being stepped on by humans, but do they any real power in getting humans to stop crushing them?

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by ellsworth81@Feb 24 2003, 04:22 PM
moreover, we have to really determine how much leverage that APAs have in this country. As an extreme example, ants can complain all they want about being stepped on by humans, but do they any real power in getting humans to stop crushing them?
if asian americans were unified on... i dunno... something, then we would be able to see exactly how much influence we had. with no unity, we will never be able to see what we are really capable of.

and to use your example, yes... ants become a devastating force when they swarm. which is why ms. oh advocates unity.

[kangal]

as for ingrates like ms. oh, who seems to proclaim the need for a "yellow" panthers group in the asian community, i say go ahead. if you want to cause more problems and hatred by proclaiming that the yellow people should take up a fight against all other peoples to earn the respect that she feels they don't have in ignorance, all i can say is brush up on your european history; caucasians have already done things similar in the name of righteousness. do you really want the yellow people to have the sordid history of hatred, fear, and xenophobia that caucasians have had and spread around the world

By being an American? I'm with you, kangal, reading that article felt more like it was directed towards Asians like me rather than Asians everywhere.


wow, here i am sitting there backing off from what I said earlier about the article seeming to create a feeling of us against them, and I actually get some support! thank you H-D and angel nympho....



if asian americans were unified on... i dunno... something, then we would be able to see exactly how much influence we had. with no unity, we will never be able to see what we are really capable of.

and to use your example, yes... ants become a devastating force when they swarm. which is why ms. oh advocates unity. &nbsp;

I think being unified on one topic is a pipe dream; even in a white majority, there is no unity. That's what is so great about a democracy is that you arent forced to think alike. I would hate the thought of Asians trying to create "unity" as people like myself would either end up being a pariah or somehow have my voice quieted. If you believe in the same things, sure, then vote together. But the article seems to say that we owe it to think alike just based on the color of our skin. That's bullshit in my mind. And going back to the ant analogy, I don't want to be a drone listening to the queen to do as she wants.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by kangal@Feb 24 2003, 02:50 PM
I think being unified on one topic is a pipe dream; even in a white majority, there is no unity.
I thought it is minority or subordinate status that promotes or holds people together to strive for unity. You tend to see the smaller countries or groups with the most to gain that hold the tightest bonds, pride, or spirit, and also the reason why so many Americans at least IMHO take their citizenship for granted.

For instance if you go to colleges or universities where it's like 50% Asian, you won't see much unity or pro-active demonstration for the Asian-American community whereas it will be more prominent if you attend an institution that is perhaps where only 4-5% of the students are Asian. Maybe I am wrong about this...but it's just what I notice among the people walking around when I compare the University of Washington to Washington State University.

[ellsworth81]

before any group can unify, someone has to determine what is "right" and what benefits the group the most. and that ... will take a while.

But I think we can all agree that racism is bad. So protesting is at least something. But I can't really protest b/c I'm not exactly the most un-racist guy out there.

yea, ants are pretty fuckin' dangerous ... i saw on the discovery channel that a colony of ants only took a few days to pick a horse carcass clean ... but is being dangerous really the answer to earning respect from other Americans?

i think the author isn't implying that we don't owe it because of our skin color, but rather we owe it to the many Asians that have faced oppression/racism in many years past. Perhaps, these ancestors may have even been martyrs, but that might be stretching it :blink:

it's a shame she couldn't post her. she used to post on another asian-interest forum ... but apparently, it was too misogynistic/chauvinistic. If that's the case, then she wouldn't probably wouldn't like it here all that much either.

[MellowDrama]

Originally posted by himura-dono@Feb 24 2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by MellowDrama@Feb 24 2003, 11:09 AM
Ahem, where the fuck is the "hatred"?

jesus christ, all she's saying is stick the fuck up for yourselves!!!


hi, read more of her articles, think about the things she is leading to. this isn't just a proclamation of "stick the fuck up for yourselves".

and either way, a medical walkout...hmm, that's productive, i'm sure many patients or families of patients who died or could have been saved would really love asian americans after that. and i'm sure they would love to hear what they have to say as to why they didn't first uphold their position as a doctor and save people vs. trying to send a message to the rest of the US that, "hey, we're asian americans, and we're sticking the fuck up for ourselves...hmm...mind the casualties of our thoughtless action though."

she's not necessarily proclaiming hatred in this article but she's setting a stage that could lead to more problems within the asian community or other communites having problems with the asian community.

to ms. oh i say, "shut the fuck up. think, then speak. realize the consequences of actions you say should be done. when you're young and burn yourself on a stove you learn that shit, maybe i should've thought first. practice this simple idea."
Actually in 2000, at a hospital in the Bay Area (I think it was Stanford), the nurses, mostly Filipino, went on strike for higher wages. And the hospital paid in the end. IMHO, if they felt they weren't getting paid just wages they had every right to strike, and I applaud them in their effort. BTW, they didn't strike just because they were Asian, but because they were getting unfair wages. To suggest that people strike just because they are of x race, is fucking ridiculous.

People strike because they are getting treated and paid unfairly (or what they perceive to be so).

[ChinaLama]

Please tone down the dialogue here, everyone. Calling one another's views "ridiculous," etc aren't helpful. :)

[kangal]

Originally posted by tazadar@Feb 24 2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by himura-dono@Feb 24 2003, 10:28 AM
as for ingrates like ms. oh, who seems to proclaim the need for a "yellow" panthers group in the asian community, i say go ahead. if you want to cause more problems and hatred by proclaiming that the yellow people should take up a fight against all other peoples to earn the respect that she feels they don't have in ignorance, all i can say is brush up on your european history; caucasians have already done things similar in the name of righteousness. do you really want the yellow people to have the sordid history of hatred, fear, and xenophobia that caucasians have had and spread around the world?

:cry: if so, i feel bad for you.
Rick, your comment is quite a disappointment and not only offensive to Julia but reflects on all Asians. Why is she an ingrate or anyone of us that agrees with her views? We are ungrateful to whom? The white race? Asians should be grateful for the whites killing off Native Americans? Asians should be grateful to whites enslaving blacks? Asians should be grateful to whites for the forced Chinese into the coolie trade? Asians should be grateful to whites for not putting us into concentration camps? We need to count our blessings for we are guests? Your comment is no different than the same racist shit we hear all the time, "if you don't like it here, go back to your country."

This should be a dialogue among Asians. I have no problem that you decided to participate, but refrain from the personal attack and racist tone. You have forced me, so let me put up the sign again. It's more PC this time.

NO DOGS OR WHITES ALLOWED
No whites allowed? Didn't know that. That seems to be a tad more racist than what H-D has posted. But, in terms of the grateful issue, its not like Asians have had the best personal relations either. If you want to get down to the nitty-gritty, why should other Asians have cared if Japanese were interned during the war? They were an enemy to the Asians as they did attack and conquer others. Should Asians be grateful for being conquered and being experimented on? Of course not. What H-D was saying is that the battle should not be an us vs. them mentality. That is all. Perhaps the word ingrate was unnecessary.

[MellowDrama]

Originally posted by tazadar@Feb 24 2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by himura-dono@Feb 24 2003, 10:28 AM
as for ingrates like ms. oh, who seems to proclaim the need for a "yellow" panthers group in the asian community, i say go ahead. if you want to cause more problems and hatred by proclaiming that the yellow people should take up a fight against all other peoples to earn the respect that she feels they don't have in ignorance, all i can say is brush up on your european history; caucasians have already done things similar in the name of righteousness. do you really want the yellow people to have the sordid history of hatred, fear, and xenophobia that caucasians have had and spread around the world?

:cry: if so, i feel bad for you.
Rick, your comment is quite a disappointment and not only offensive to Julia but reflects on all Asians. Why is she an ingrate or anyone of us that agrees with her views? We are ungrateful to whom? The white race? Asians should be grateful for the whites killing off Native Americans? Asians should be grateful to whites enslaving blacks? Asians should be grateful to whites for the forced Chinese into the coolie trade? Asians should be grateful to whites for not putting us into concentration camps? We need to count our blessings for we are guests? Your comment is no different than the same racist shit we hear all the time, "if you don't like it here, go back to your country."

This should be a dialogue among Asians. I have no problem that you decided to participate, but refrain from the personal attack and racist tone. You have forced me, so let me put up the sign again. It's more PC this time.

NO DOGS OR WHITES ALLOWED
Post of the year.

:lol:

BTW, everyone, taz is doing a take off of that sign in one of the Bruce Lee movies, Chinese Connection (I think it was). Sarcasm is implied.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by tazadar@Feb 24 2003, 06:02 PM
Rick, your comment is quite a disappointment and not only offensive to Julia but reflects on all Asians. Why is she an ingrate or anyone of us that agrees with her views? We are ungrateful to whom? The white race? Asians should be grateful for the whites killing off Native Americans? Asians should be grateful to whites enslaving blacks? Asians should be grateful to whites for the forced Chinese into the coolie trade? Asians should be grateful to whites for not putting us into concentration camps? We need to count our blessings for we are guests? Your comment is no different than the same racist shit we hear all the time, "if you don't like it here, go back to your country."
He didn't say any of that stuff. You're inferring a ridiculous amount from one little word.

Oh sets herself up as the judge of "good Asian" behavior in this article and in Sister, Can You Lend An Ear? (http://www.jademagazine.com/22iss_sister.html), where she proclaims that any Asian woman who dates outside her race is undermining her culture and her people, and that any relationship between an Asian and a White person is one where the White person holds more power than the Asian. IMO that's all junk, but if she wants to use those criteria to judge her worth as an AA, I really don't care; when she applies her standards to all AAs interested in furthering "the cause" (whatever the hell that is), however, that's going too far.

Some AAs seeking empowerment don't see Shaq or A&F as their top priority; that doesn't make them apathetic Uncle Toms or Twinkies or whatever. Some don't see it as a priority at all - and as long as they're not going out and using firehoses on the A&F/Shaq protesters, I don't see how they can be labeled as "those who take us a step back". The Asian America that Julia Oh belongs to is not the one I want representing me nor the one I want to belong to.

[kangal]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 24 2003, 07:02 PM
He didn't say any of that stuff. You're inferring a ridiculous amount from one little word.

Oh sets herself up as the judge of "good Asian" behavior in this article and in Sister, Can You Lend An Ear? (http://www.jademagazine.com/22iss_sister.html), where she proclaims that any Asian woman who dates outside her race is undermining her culture and her people, and that any relationship between an Asian and a White person is one where the White person holds more power than the Asian. IMO that's all junk, but if she wants to use those criteria to judge her worth as an AA, I really don't care; when she applies her standards to all AAs interested in furthering "the cause" (whatever the hell that is), however, that's going too far.

Some AAs seeking empowerment don't see Shaq or A&F as their top priority; that doesn't make them apathetic Uncle Toms or Twinkies or whatever. Some don't see it as a priority at all - and as long as they're not going out and using firehoses on the A&F/Shaq protesters, I don't see how they can be labeled as "those who take us a step back". The Asian America that Julia Oh belongs to is not the one I want representing me nor the one I want to belong to.
THATS my post of the year.

[MellowDrama]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 24 2003, 07:02 PM
He didn't say any of that stuff. You're inferring a ridiculous amount from one little word.

Oh sets herself up as the judge of "good Asian" behavior in this article and in Sister, Can You Lend An Ear? (http://www.jademagazine.com/22iss_sister.html), where she proclaims that any Asian woman who dates outside her race is undermining her culture and her people, and that any relationship between an Asian and a White person is one where the White person holds more power than the Asian. IMO that's all junk, but if she wants to use those criteria to judge her worth as an AA, I really don't care; when she applies her standards to all AAs interested in furthering "the cause" (whatever the hell that is), however, that's going too far.

Some AAs seeking empowerment don't see Shaq or A&F as their top priority; that doesn't make them apathetic Uncle Toms or Twinkies or whatever. Some don't see it as a priority at all - and as long as they're not going out and using firehoses on the A&F/Shaq protesters, I don't see how they can be labeled as "those who take us a step back". The Asian America that Julia Oh belongs to is not the one I want representing me nor the one I want to belong to.
He used vitriolic and venomous words to describe Miss Oh. And I too agree with this taz's assertion that it lent itself to a "you should be GRATEFUL to be here" attitude.

[kangal]

I'd like to point out that throughout this controversial thread, I am proud of the emotions represented. I think that, regardless of what Ms. Oh says, that unity may be good, but free thought is better. The fact that we have such differing opinions and will support them through thick and thin shows that there is no apathy.

[kangal]

if you want to cause more problems and hatred by proclaiming that the yellow people should take up a fight against all other peoples to earn the respect that she feels they don't have in ignorance... do you really want the yellow people to have the sordid history of hatred, fear, and xenophobia that caucasians have had and spread around the world?

That does not imply anywhere that we should leave this country if we don't like it. All he is saying is that there is no need to develop the attiude of Asians first and Asians only. I believe that he doesn't want the phrase "Asian power" to have the same connotations as "white power." There is never any reference to leaving this country or owing anything to anybody.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by MellowDrama@Feb 24 2003, 07:14 PM
He used vitriolic and venomous words to describe Miss Oh. And I too agree with this taz's assertion that it lent itself to a "you should be GRATEFUL to be here" attitude.
I used vitriol and venom to describe her as well. But I'm only half White, so that makes me only half an oppressor, right?

There was no "you should be grateful to be here" in HD's post. If anything, I think he came out in support of AAs; but since he's speaking out against Oh, he's speaking out against all Asians and "the cause", right? This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. "Since he's White, he must be a prick." You're letting his race color your interpretation of his words.

[kangal]

"the cultivation of a social and political Asian consciousness"

Conscioiusness means to be aware. Being aware of the issues is not synonomous with having them at the top of our activist priorties. Also, one can have the same goal, but differing methods in reaching it. Just because some feel that the AA empowerment that Ms. Oh suggests, doesn't mean that they are not working for the same goal.

As for the word, ingrate, I take it to mean that she is ungrateful for those that fight for her same cause, but may have different methods, like myself. I don't think the fact that the poster who said was white has anything to do with being ungrateful towards whites in America.

Lastly, I think that the comments of keeping whites off of this board is exactly what will hurt the progress of equality. It embarrasses me to see "No Dogs or Whites are allowed." Even if it was a joke, it would be no different because many may not take it as a joke. In fact, was the defense of Kung-Fool and Shaq not "it was a joke?" The progress of Asians should not be a solely Asian endeavor. If others wish to help, then so be it. I find it appalling that whites choose to join this board with good intentions, but are rebuffed with a "get the hell out" when they say stuff that is controversial or disagreeable. Even on the white-supremacist website that AB and SWK posted on, they were not told to get the hell out for being Asian or posting pro-Asian sentiments.

[VV o n g B a]

h-d using ingrates was totally uncalled for, but taz's response was kinda like responding to a bullet w/ a bazooka. i for one agree w/ ms. oh and i don't appreciate getting called an ingrate. thats EXACTLY what i read from h-d's post. but i'll forgo the "vitriolic" response cuz taz has provided more than enough as payback.

but getting back to the topic, if we don't show unity (or something approaching it) we will continue to be ignored by the two big parties. for what reason would they care to listen to our needs? they would have none. our small population makeup combined w/ totally independent political views partially contribute to our "politically silent" stereotype. i can see how coble and the a&f t-shirts might be an iffy issue. but how about "kung fool"? i feel that if an asian were not in the least bit offended by that costume, then they are lying to themselves about their image with regards to mainstream america.

if u feel that we have no needs that would require a majority of asian support, then u must believe that racism is so close to nonexistent in the US that it needs no addressing (even if it includes views within our own community). i just don't buy that. have there been improvements? yes. is it eradicated? hell no.

[kangal]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Feb 25 2003, 12:50 AM
h-d using ingrates was totally uncalled for, but taz's response was kinda like responding to a bullet w/ a bazooka. i for one agree w/ ms. oh and i don't appreciate getting called an ingrate. thats EXACTLY what i read from h-d's post. but i'll forgo the "vitriolic" response cuz taz has provided more than enough as payback.

but getting back to the topic, if we don't show unity (or something approaching it) we will continue to be ignored by the two big parties. for what reason would they care to listen to our needs? they would have none. our small population makeup combined w/ totally independent political views partially contribute to our "politically silent" stereotype. i can see how coble and the a&f t-shirts might be an iffy issue. but how about "kung fool"? i feel that if an asian were not in the least bit offended by that costume, then they are lying to themselves about their image with regards to mainstream america.

if u feel that we have no needs that would require a majority of asian support, then u must believe that racism is so close to nonexistent in the US that it needs no addressing (even if it includes views within our own community). i just don't buy that. have there been improvements? yes. is it eradicated? hell no.
I agree. The main thing I disliked about Ms. Oh's statement is that there was only one right side and that should be the majority opinon. But, who's to say which side that the majority must agree with?

[achtungbaby]

Just a tid bit on the author, since I hadn't heard of her before: Julia Oh is a second-generation Asian American who was born, raised, and spent most of her life on the East Coast. She has written articles for various Asian sites, including aamovement.net, modelminority.com, and asianguy.com. She currently resides in Asia.

I thought her article was fine. It didn't exactly put lava in my belly, but there's nothing wrong with rhetoric to stir up the masses to get them interested.

I've been thinking quite a bit lately about the 'state' of Asian activism. Apathy and indifference are commonly perceived as the culprits to thwarting empowerment, and yeah, carrying only about yourself does suck, but it doesn't help that there aren't enough strong leaders in our community, who care more about recognition than about a cause itself.

BTW...please do not post entire articles from other sites...!

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by tazadar@Feb 25 2003, 12:17 AM
If these issues are not a priority or concern to you, then why are you here? "the cultivation of a social and political Asian consciousness" is what's on this web site. Did you know that we had a "Kung Fool" petition? How about the Coble removable petition? Is that a concern for you? Why don't you tell AB to shut this site down?
Number one, I never said that I was one of those who didn't think Shaq and A&F were a problem; I only said that the AAs who do aren't holding us back, as Oh asserts. Apathetic members of the AA community are just that, apathetic; if you main concern is scaring Whites with a unified Asian American front, then apathy is a great evil, but if you're concerned about stuff that matters, like strengthening the bonds within the AA community, you won't write someone off as the Anti-Asian and say "someday you'll realize the world only spins on Whitie's axis!" just 'cause they don't share you opinions. A certain amount of dissonance helps makes a movement democratic; forcing people to toe the party line does not.

Number two, I've never had to defend my reasons for being on this site before, and I'm certainly not going to defend them to you.

Number three, this is exactly the kind of thinking I'm talking about - "You're not with me 100%, therefor you must be against me and all Asians." No one elected you or Ms. Oh spokesman, representative, or chairman of the AA community, so don't dictate the policy of AA politics and social activism to me. If I disagree with you, I disagree with you, not every AA and not every AA cause.

[kangal]

Yoohoo....i'm posting this because i like this topic and i think it should be a bit higher than ko-hunk's posts

[Napoleon Chynamite]

*bumpers* :D

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 25 2003, 06:05 AM
Number one, I never said that I was one of those who didn't think Shaq and A&F were a problem; I only said that the AAs who do aren't holding us back, as Oh asserts. Apathetic members of the AA community are just that, apathetic; if you main concern is scaring Whites with a unified Asian American front, then apathy is a great evil, but if you're concerned about stuff that matters, like strengthening the bonds within the AA community, you won't write someone off as the Anti-Asian and say "someday you'll realize the world only spins on Whitie's axis!" just 'cause they don't share you opinions. A certain amount of dissonance helps makes a movement democratic; forcing people to toe the party line does not..
To which I'd like to add -- you're going to get apathy in every cause or campaign you're working on.

What's needed is less finger-pointing at such people, I think, and better leadership in the community to deal with them...

[angel nympho]

I havn't been keeping up with some of the latest posts. They were kinda too long for me to feel obliged to read. Umm... I just have one thing to add that someone might have already posted, but whatever.

Reading the Oh article honestly made me feel like she was pitting Asian against Asian instead of trying to help everybody unite and strengthen inner bonds and stuff. It really really really really bothers me that if you're not anti-white, you're assumed to be anti-Asian or anti-progress or something.

[kangal]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Feb 25 2003, 12:43 PM
I havn't been keeping up with some of the latest posts. They were kinda too long for me to feel obliged to read. Umm... I just have one thing to add that someone might have already posted, but whatever.

Reading the Oh article honestly made me feel like she was pitting Asian against Asian instead of trying to help everybody unite and strengthen inner bonds and stuff. It really really really really bothers me that if you're not anti-white, you're assumed to be anti-Asian or anti-progress or something.
hehe...i'm guilty of those long diatribes...you basically cliff-noted all my posts...thank you

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Feb 25 2003, 10:43 AM
It really really really really bothers me that if you're not anti-white, you're assumed to be anti-Asian or anti-progress or something.
I think it's similar to any cause that a person can be passionate for -- you believe so much in it and are frustrated by the 'luke-warm' folks who aren't jumping aboard.

Personally, I don't think the best way to go about it is bludgeoning folks to death about why they should care all the time. It's also up to leaders to effectively communicate that message more consistently. Most of us who care about Asian causes didn't wake up one morning and suddenly feel compelled to get empowered...it was something we read or saw or heard about a particular issue that aroused our curiousity -- not just the complaining about those who weren't...uhh...aroused.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 24 2003, 05:53 PM
I used vitriol and venom to describe her as well. But I'm only half White, so that makes me only half an oppressor, right?

There was no "you should be grateful to be here" in HD's post. If anything, I think he came out in support of AAs; but since he's speaking out against Oh, he's speaking out against all Asians and "the cause", right? This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. "Since he's White, he must be a prick." You're letting his race color your interpretation of his words.
taz got me on the definition so technically he's right by that word. i was under the misconception that the term meant uneducated. Yuhei, thanks for pointing out that my post had nothing to do with that, but sadly, taz is correct only in the word's definition.


to clear it up taz:

i feel that ms. oh is uneducated. and by this i mean uneducated in her methods. she is clearly educated enough to write a spin-doctored article that attempts to sound intelligent, but her methods of suggestions clearly show no thought for how it would affect the asian community negatively.

thanks Yuhei and Kangal for trying to defend me on matters that pertained to my post.

to taz and mellow drama, i offer apologies only in stating something in ignorance, the meaning of ingrate.

aside from that, taz, could you take you're crackers need to die attitude and shove it in one of your many orrifices?

[ChinaLama]

ok...closing...

[tapestrybabe]

yeah, nothing wrong with asians wanting to come together to discuss our different points of view with one another... and while others are welcome... i think its important to note that this is an asian site to promote the asian perspective of where each of us come from... and that this site is not really geared or catered towards really promoting the white, black, hispanic, etc... perspective...

[shy]

i did have friends who thought 'yellow' in 'yellowworld' to be a bit on the shocking side (both asian and non-asian friends).

to be honest, so long as the place is run in a mature and progressive manner, the title isn't a big deal. plus, those that complain are completely free to join the site and hence, see for themselves what this place is really about before they make any judgement calls.

hmm. in a way, it's like gay's taking back and empowering the word 'queer'.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

personally I'm very happy to see an Asian site with a name like "yellowworld."

When I was in high school, our Asian American Club wanted to start writing a newsletter. (Dunno why, it turned into a gossip column and then a scandal, making them look like idiots). So each of the subordinate bitch clubs under Asian American Club was instructed by our "director of multicultural services" to send a representative to a meeting with a suggestion for a name.

The Hong Kong Students Association, being a bunch of smartasses, sent me as their representative, with unanimous support for the name "Yellow Pages: If It's Not In Here, Maybe We're Trying To Deny It Exists." (The previous year, HKSA got delisted from the program of a "Cultural Night" talent show cuz AAC didn't like the skit we were putting on. Hence the subtitle.) Damn near got me thrown outta the meeting. :lol:

[nonamerasian]

<!--QuoteBegin-shy+Aug 4 2003, 05:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shy @ Aug 4 2003, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i did have friends who thought 'yellow' in 'yellowworld' to be a bit on the shocking side (both asian and non-asian friends). . .

. . .hmm. in a way, it's like gay's taking back and empowering the word 'queer'.[/b][/quote]
How is being referred to as Yellow offensive or something that needs to be taken back? Is it not equitable to Whites being referred to as White and Blacks being referred to as Black?

[shy]

<!--QuoteBegin-nonamerasian+Aug 4 2003, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nonamerasian @ Aug 4 2003, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-shy+Aug 4 2003, 05:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shy @ Aug 4 2003, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i did have friends who thought 'yellow' in 'yellowworld' to be a bit on the shocking side (both asian and non-asian friends). . .

. . .hmm. in a way, it's like gay's taking back and empowering the word 'queer'.[/b][/quote]
How is being referred to as Yellow offensive or something that needs to be taken back? Is it not equitable to Whites being referred to as White and Blacks being referred to as Black? [/b][/quote]
it depends where you come from.

growing up here in toronto, canada, yellow was used in a derogatory way. the stigma that came with it when others called us yellow was not a nice thing. but i understand that this is very dependant upon area.

yellow does not offend me. but it's just that in toronto... or at least in my community and in the business sense... it's not really PC anymore to use 'black' or 'white' even. so obviously, it wouldn't be PC to use 'yellow'.

we're very diverse w/ culture/ethnicity in this city.

sometimes when that happens, you do find more sensitive people. that's all. so when i said MY friends were taken by surprise, i just mean the people that grew up in this area. so don't think that i was making some sort of generalization. understood?

as for 'taking it back' as a way of empowerment... it was just a thought. because i remember growing up watching t.v. shows where people caucasians would call an asian, "hey you... yellow man!" it was meant to be deragatory.

[>:^|]

<!--QuoteBegin-achtungbaby+Oct 19 2002, 01:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (achtungbaby @ Oct 19 2002, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... it is a step towards a positive reclamation of ourselves, our culture, our history, and moving towards a perspective that removes whites from the periphery of our consciousness, and compels us to define who we are, what we are, and what we want, damnit.[/b][/quote]
As opposed to an identity that other people seem inclined to dictate for us.
Patronage at its worst: Here is your identity as I have constructed it for you.

:! Go achtungbaby!

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-AliBabaIncorporated+Aug 4 2003, 06:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AliBabaIncorporated @ Aug 4 2003, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Hong Kong Students Association, being a bunch of smartasses, sent me as their representative, with unanimous support for the name "Yellow Pages: If It's Not In Here, Maybe We're Trying To Deny It Exists." [/b][/quote]
:lol:

[Eros]

<!--QuoteBegin-shy+Aug 4 2003, 08:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shy @ Aug 4 2003, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it depends where you come from.

growing up here in toronto, canada, yellow was used in a derogatory way. the stigma that came with it when others called us yellow was not a nice thing. but i understand that this is very dependant upon area.

yellow does not offend me. but it's just that in toronto... or at least in my community and in the business sense... it's not really PC anymore to use 'black' or 'white' even. so obviously, it wouldn't be PC to use 'yellow'.

we're very diverse w/ culture/ethnicity in this city.

sometimes when that happens, you do find more sensitive people. that's all. so when i said MY friends were taken by surprise, i just mean the people that grew up in this area. so don't think that i was making some sort of generalization. understood?

as for 'taking it back' as a way of empowerment... it was just a thought. because i remember growing up watching t.v. shows where people caucasians would call an asian, "hey you... yellow man!" it was meant to be deragatory. [/b][/quote]
Same where I'm from. I can occasionally feel my PC side creep up and make me think a bit about if I want to say white and black instead of caucasian and african.

I think this forum does it's job well. It has a mixture of important AA topics along with more fluffy stuff (which is good as it lets people talk in a casual manner). Plus, from what I've seen, there is rarely if ever flame wars between people who have opposing views.

As for the name, I like it. I think it's clever. And it does follow the "taking back the term" idea. As said in Chasing Amy "we call ourselves that because it lessens the blow when other people do." Erm... or something along those lines.

[AngryABCGirl]

Viva la Yelloworld!

[DragonKnight]

<!--QuoteBegin-AzNBuffGrL+Aug 4 2003, 11:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AzNBuffGrL @ Aug 4 2003, 11:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Viva la Yelloworld! [/b][/quote]
*shakes fist*

[ChinaLama]

Merged this thread with a thread on Asian American unity, which was closed b/c of a fight, but I think can be reopened now that one of the fighters is gone. :-) Anyways, yeah, just felt like bumping the topic but don't have anything original to add.

I guess just a question: what do you think would be an "Asian perspective?" What do Asian Americans have in common? Do Asian Americans who've been in America for say over a hundred years have anything in common with Asian Asians?

[Faithless]

I've been getting quite a few emails lately (primarily from whites) about the seemingly apparent hypocrisy of having a site that promotes diversity and equality -- and calling it "yellowworld."

I got news for ya: yellowworld is for Asians.

My $1 response:

While diversity and equality are values we uphold, the site itself is devoted to creating a community committed to developing an Asian political and social consciousness. And while this isn't mutually exclusive of diversity, nor does it exclude or discourage persons of other racial and ethnic backgrounds, it is a step towards a positive reclamation of ourselves, our culture, our history, and moving towards a perspective that removes whites from the periphery of our concsiousness, and compels us to define who we are, what we are, and what we want, damnit.

Jumping late, but good points.

Can it be said that YW can be considered "hypocritical" if on the one hand it makes social demands in the media, and then turn around have members make socially un-PC-like remarks?

(Sorry, I didn't read all the posts, if this was brought up before)

[xazncrazinessx]

im heated that idiotic whites can say /anything/ at all is rascist when the race who it is referring to does /not/ believe it is rascist.i don't understand that at all. when BLT came out a stupidass /white/ guy said that BLT was rascist against asians even though most asians didn't care or were pro-BLT that is such fcuking hyprocritical bull /especially/ since they see rascist depictions of asians all the time and could give less of a fuck. and sorry for the profanity.

[Blue dice]

Unfortunately, a lot of other Asians are pretty much alone out there in a sea of white; consequently, I think, it's influenced their perspective, too, sometimes negatively.

This was my experience growing up in a white community during the formative years of my life. I later moved to CA but it was difficult early on. In a predominately white middle class community you receive a LOT more racism and there's absolutely noone to turn to. Even the white faculty (we're talking mostly adult teachers here) often undermined any serious complaints you have. I should make a long post about the things I experienced during this time but it'll just dredge up extremely bitter memories. I'm a child of the 80's and this was during the time that APA activism was nearly nonexistant. Suffice to say, one of the reasons why i'm so adamant and unwilling to give up any ounce of ground fighting racism against other asians is because of this.

[AngryABCGirl]

Merged this thread with a thread on Asian American unity, which was closed b/c of a fight, but I think can be reopened now that one of the fighters is gone. :-) Anyways, yeah, just felt like bumping the topic but don't have anything original to add.

I guess just a question: what do you think would be an "Asian perspective?" What do Asian Americans have in common? Do Asian Americans who've been in America for say over a hundred years have anything in common with Asian Asians?

If you want an all-encompassing commonatliy in identity- it would be a shared history of racism, invisiblity v visiblity, and the perpetual foreigner. A great majority would find commonality in immigration and accularation issues and lastly some common cultural baggage.

[Koalagirl]

I think that this forum shows white outsiders like myself what it is like to be a minority for a change and to appreciate people for who they are.Koalagirl

[Tao]

uh oh

[hooligan]

I think that this forum shows white outsiders like myself what it is like to be a minority for a change and to appreciate people for who they are.Koalagirl
hmmm, not really, you're missing out on all the racism.

[Koalagirl]

That's true,but I have gotten hostility and criticism.I guess I'm not presenting my questions/ideas/comments well.I am constantly being misunderstood.Still,It does give me a small picture of what it must be like.I continue to learn and hopefully grow...Koalagirl

[Tao]

That's true,but I have gotten hostility and criticism.I guess I'm not presenting my questions/ideas/comments well.I am constantly being misunderstood.Still,It does give me a small picture of what it must be like.I continue to learn and hopefully grow...Koalagirl

eh whatever

but I do wanna say good luck with the baby and all

[Koalagirl]

Thank you :smile: Koalagirl

[Faithless]

I think that this forum shows white outsiders like myself what it is like to be a minority for a change and to appreciate people for who they are.Koalagirl

With all do respect, I don't the issue with you is about "white outsiders" not getting a fare shake.

It's about what some feel appears to be rehashed spam from one board to the next.

[Koalagirl]

My posts were never intended to be spam and I am sorry they came across that way.I honestly needed the help that I asked for.Koalagirl

[applehead]

That's true,but I have gotten hostility and criticism.I guess I'm not presenting my questions/ideas/comments well.I am constantly being misunderstood.Still,It does give me a small picture of what it must be like.I continue to learn and hopefully grow...Koalagirl

um, lady.
the hostility and criticism was not because you were white.
it's because of your stupid threads. k?
that's not racism.

why do i even bother.

[Tao]

there there meena, corgi will comfort you soon enough

[hooligan]

there there meena, corgi will comfort you soon enough
tao, let's tag team meena. after all i am the circumsizer

[applehead]

i am the circumsizer

kekekekekeke.
circumsizer.

[Tao]

tao, let's tag team meena. after all i am the circumsizer

i think mr x will feel left out

[hooligan]

i think mr x will feel left out
he's not getting any until he shows us his breatisis.

[Tao]

he's not getting any until he shows us his breatisis.

breastisis? you mean bresti...as in plural for breasts......which is plural for breast.....so it's agreed then...mr x is a milk cow.

[Faithless]

My posts were never intended to be spam and I am sorry they came across that way.I honestly needed the help that I asked for.Koalagirl

Alright, then. Let's get back on topic. AB started the thread with this post:
I've been getting quite a few emails lately (primarily from whites) about the seemingly apparent hypocrisy of having a site that promotes diversity and equality -- and calling it "yellowworld."

I got news for ya: yellowworld is for Asians.

My $1 response:

While diversity and equality are values we uphold, the site itself is devoted to creating a community committed to developing an Asian political and social consciousness. And while this isn't mutually exclusive of diversity, nor does it exclude or discourage persons of other racial and ethnic backgrounds, it is a step towards a positive reclamation of ourselves, our culture, our history, and moving towards a perspective that removes whites from the periphery of our concsiousness, and compels us to define who we are, what we are, and what we want, damnit.

[applehead]

he's not getting any until he shows us his breatisis.

ew. why would you want to see that?

[mr. x]

wow u guys talked about me without me? THATS what makes me feel left out :wink:

[SunWuKong]

ok everybody. no flaming and no attacks. this thread is going to be closed if it doesn't get back on topic.

[Faithless]

Here's an interesting article regarding something related:

Everyday items show legacy of U.S. racism (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/7690166.htm)

It discusses the subtle racism that still faces African Americans in this country. But it also shows the sensitivity and the reaction. It made me think along the lines of what others have been saying -- that if we can be sensitive to one race's plight, why not the others?
Posted on Mon, Jan. 12, 2004

Everyday items show legacy of U.S. racism
S.J. COLLECTOR HOPES FOR DIALOGUE ON RACE
By Katherine Corcoran
Mercury News

Dawn Spears knows that if she didn't have the artifacts to prove it, people simply would not believe that Milton Bradley, maker of Scrabble, also had a bowling game called Darkie Five Pins, or that Kiwi shoe polish once carried a notorious racial slur on some cans to describe a shade of brown.

Spears, 50, a voracious collector of black memorabilia, has amassed 1,500 historic pieces that center on America's most racist depictions, and how they were used routinely at one time to market everything from soap and tobacco to golf tees.

About six times a year, she takes dozens of her derogatory images to schools to show students what they will never find in their history books: a shooting gallery game with toy rifle and caricatures of black children as targets; or matches and menus from the Coon Chicken Inn, a restaurant in the Pacific Northwest where patrons entered through the wide grin of a cartoon black face.

``I can't name one article they didn't use to put down black people as less than human,'' said Spears, who is African-American. ``Even a coin purse,'' she added, holding up the tiny leather pouch adorned with a brown face and big red lips.