Movies that make Caucasians better than Asians

[ChairmanMah]

They mock us but they looove our women.

I mean if you were nice to us i don't think most of us would mind too much but it doesn't seem like they deserve it.



<!--EDIT|ChairmanMah|Oct 16 2002, 04:54 AM-->

[Green_Circle]

"They mock us but they love our women."

'Our' women aren't exactly being forced (in most cases).
They want what they want. But CM, I've seen your pic in the profile with some hottie. What, you should complain?
:confused:

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by Green_Circle@Oct 16 2002, 05:01 AM
"They mock us but they love our women."

'Our' women aren't exactly being forced (in most cases).
They want what they want. But CM, I've seen your pic in the profile with some hottie. What, you should complain?
:confused:
no jsut somehtng to address and talk about. if you don't speak up then what's the point of being here? i like hearing new ideas and perspectives.

don't think that because i can date women that i shouldn't fight against defamations of my cultural existence by a media oppressor or people i come into contact with.

Ppl don't speak up enough when they encounter stereotypical racism.

[Shuriken]

Now, this is a much better topic than "movies that give white men access to Asian women." I mean is "access" really the issue here?

What really bugs me is movies where some Caucasian hero is thrown into some Asian milieu where he ought not to know anything and beats the Asians at their own game.

One movie that does this in particular is The Hunted, where Christopher Lambert is thrown into some kind of turf war between modern-day Japanese samurai/ninjas, and he beats the martial-artist villain, played by John Lone, even though he doesn't know martial arts and even after a more skilled martial artist, played by Yoshio Harada, couldn't. I'm all for rooting for the underdog, but The Hunted made Lambert's triumph over Lone totally implausible.

A couple other points about the movie:

• Although he was born in the U.S., Lambert grew up in France and speaks with a French accent. The character that he played in The Hunted was an American, but he still spoke in this foreign dialect. However, the movie also cast some Asian American actors as Japanese nationals and had them do some dialogue scenes in English and speaking with their regular American accents. So, the movie sent the message that a white person with a foreign accent could be "American," but an Asian person with an American accent is still a foreigner.

• The Hunted starts off with Lambert picking up Joan Chen in a Japanese bar — and of course, obeying the laws of Hollywood, she ends up taking this complete stranger back to her hotel room where they have sex together in a hot tub. But what really gets me is that when Lambert first sees Chen, she's sitting by herself at the bar in a sexy dress, while the other (presumably Japanese) men in the bar ignore her. Why wasn't her character surrounded by Japanese men hitting on her? (Hollywood's answer: Because Asian men don't have sex. Asian women are available only to white men.)

Nevertheless, The Hunted is still kind of a guilty pleasure for me because Yoshio Harada, radiating charisma comparable to Toshiro Mifune's, utterly steals the movie from Lambert. And John Lone's performance as the villain is also very dynamic. But the time needs to come — and soon — when Hollywood will finance a film where an Asian character, like Yoshio Harada's role, can be the hero.

[Andrew]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Oct 16 2002, 06:30 PM
Now, this is a much better topic than "movies that give white men access to Asian women." &nbsp;I mean is "access" really the issue here? &nbsp;

What really bugs me is movies where some Caucasian hero is thrown into some Asian milieu where he ought not to know anything and beats the Asians at their own game. &nbsp;

One movie that does this in particular is The Hunted
I'd like to assemble a comprehensive list of these for use in future scholarship (by me or others). Maybe we can use this thread to collect them?

I have several on my Media Portrayal Project (http://www.democracyweb.com/asian/media/) pages (long in need of an update): Shogun, Blood Alley, Ninja Academy, and Gymkata.

Offhand I can also think of Sayonara (Marlon Brando), Death Ring (Mike Norris), and the long series of American Ninja (Michael Dudikoff), American Samurai (David Bradley), Rambo (Sylvester Stallone) and Missing in Action (Chuck Norris) films.

What's worse, I think a fair number of popular Asian American authors set up plots like this too. I'm not just talking about Amy Tan -- now and then I'll see paperback books on the bestseller shelves at Barnes & Noble about white protagonists in an Asian setting. Invariably the author's middle (maiden) name is Asian and surname is Western. Haven't really tried to catalog these.

I wonder how many Americans would pay to see a movie about an Asian immigrant arriving in the U.S., immediately solving our social problems and becoming fantastically wealthy and influential, and marrying the President's daughter. We could even bill it as "based on a true story" and make it required viewing in high school history class.

[wylin]

Originally posted by Andrew@Oct 16 2002, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Shuriken@Oct 16 2002, 06:30 PM
Now, this is a much better topic than "movies that give white men access to Asian women." I mean is "access" really the issue here?

What really bugs me is movies where some Caucasian hero is thrown into some Asian milieu where he ought not to know anything and beats the Asians at their own game.

One movie that does this in particular is The Hunted
I'd like to assemble a comprehensive list of these for use in future scholarship (by me or others). Maybe we can use this thread to collect them?

I have several on my Media Portrayal Project (http://www.democracyweb.com/asian/media/) pages (long in need of an update): Shogun, Blood Alley, Ninja Academy, and Gymkata.

Offhand I can also think of Sayonara (Marlon Brando), Death Ring (Mike Norris), and the long series of American Ninja (Michael Dudikoff), American Samurai (David Bradley), Rambo (Sylvester Stallone) and Missing in Action (Chuck Norris) films.

What's worse, I think a fair number of popular Asian American authors set up plots like this too. I'm not just talking about Amy Tan -- now and then I'll see paperback books on the bestseller shelves at Barnes & Noble about white protagonists in an Asian setting. Invariably the author's middle (maiden) name is Asian and surname is Western. Haven't really tried to catalog these.

I wonder how many Americans would pay to see a movie about an Asian immigrant arriving in the U.S., immediately solving our social problems and becoming fantastically wealthy and influential, and marrying the President's daughter. We could even bill it as "based on a true story" and make it required viewing in high school history class.
theirs this manga released by viz of a japanese american running for president.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Hey you remember the bad guy from Karate Kid Part 2,
he owns and runs a restaurant near my house in Seattle, WA. Kinda random but this thread just reminded me :P

[mydnyht]

Originally posted by Green_Circle@Oct 16 2002, 05:01 AM
"They mock us but they love our women."


Hey... girls don't belong to anybody. You could refer to 'us' as 'Asian women' or 'women of Asian descent'...

[wylin]

i own my wife =X

[blkazngirl]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Oct 16 2002, 04:52 AM
They mock us but they looove our women.

I mean if you were nice to us i don't think most of us would mind too much but it doesn't seem like they deserve it.
As long as the movie industry mogols are giving the calls. The caucasians will always have better roles against the minority. After all "they" believe that they are superior.

Don't start sending me hate mail. I'm not a racist, my family is like the UN. I just don't like injustis.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Oct 16 2002, 04:52 AM
They mock us but they looove our women.

I mean if you were nice to us i don't think most of us would mind too much but it doesn't seem like they deserve it.
Sometimes, when a white guy is nice to one of my Asian guy friends, they say things like "Oh, I wonder what THAT was all about" and stuff like that. I don't really know any white guys who make fun of Asian guys, but I won't lie, I know a few who do. But I know a lot of Asian guys who make fun of white guys, too. But most of the Asian guys who make fun of white guys swear up and down they're not racist, and they really don't seem so in front of white people. I think that if we're okay with making fun of other races when we're in the company of our own, we shouldn't get so worked up when other people do the same. But if you really want people to stop talking about Asians, then maybe we should consider returning the favor.

And, again, NO women are YOUR women.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 16 2002, 07:36 PM


And, again, NO women are YOUR women.
But, but....damn, why not! :cry:

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Oct 17 2002, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 17 2002, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Oct 16 2002, 04:52 AM
They mock us but they looove our women.

I mean if you were nice to us i don't think most of us would mind too much but it doesn't seem like they deserve it.
Sometimes, when a white guy is nice to one of my Asian guy friends, they say things like "Oh, I wonder what THAT was all about" and stuff like that. I don't really know any white guys who make fun of Asian guys, but I won't lie, I know a few who do. But I know a lot of Asian guys who make fun of white guys, too. But most of the Asian guys who make fun of white guys swear up and down they're not racist, and they really don't seem so in front of white people. I think that if we're okay with making fun of other races when we're in the company of our own, we shouldn't get so worked up when other people do the same. But if you really want people to stop talking about Asians, then maybe we should consider returning the favor.

And, again, NO women are YOUR women.
How about those--ie, Caucasians-- that talk about others because they believe they can get away with it...

...not too mention because they feel they are superior?
I agree with you there. I know a lot of white people who take their racial standing for granted. "I can get you in, I'm white!" But I also know a lot of Asians who think they're superior as well. I don't mean to accuse anybody on this forum of anything, but I've known some Asians (mostly the superficial type I met in school), who make it pretty clear that they think they should be ruling the world. I'm just saying that tolerating THOSE thoughts is just as morally objectable as tolerating thoughts that whites are superior. I'm just saying that it makes no sense to justify the fact that WE do it by saying "well we NEED to do it to stand up to white people." That's all just excuses to me.

[DaBestSpooner]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Oct 16 2002, 01:30 PM

• The Hunted starts off with Lambert picking up Joan Chen in a Japanese bar — and of course, obeying the laws of Hollywood, she ends up taking this complete stranger back to her hotel room where they have sex together in a hot tub. &nbsp;But what really gets me is that when Lambert first sees Chen, she's sitting by herself at the bar in a sexy dress, while the other (presumably Japanese) men in the bar ignore her. &nbsp;Why wasn't her character surrounded by Japanese men hitting on her? &nbsp;(Hollywood's answer: Because Asian men don't have sex. &nbsp;Asian women are available only to white men.) &nbsp;


Cus the white man's taste in asian women are not the same as a typical japanese man's.

Compare Joan Chen to Morning Musume! I'll take like 1/20th of Morning Musume anyday, even the ugliest one from MM

http://goldsea.com/Personalities/Chenjoan/joannn1.jpg
eyong! kitanai! kowai!!!!! debui!!!!!!

http://madballgraphics.bizland.com/Welcome.jpg
Kawaii!!!!!



<!--EDIT|DaBestSpooner|Oct 16 2002, 10:19 PM-->

[karizma]

>> oh shit i was watching that morning musume show...i had no idea what in the hell it was though..just a bunch of japanese girls doing some oddball shit...and me not understanding japanese didnt help either lol. i was only watching it cause i was debating which one was the cutest.

[Andrew]

Originally posted by Andrew@Oct 16 2002, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Shuriken@Oct 16 2002, 06:30 PM

One movie that does this in particular is The Hunted
I'd like to assemble a comprehensive list of these for use in future scholarship (by me or others). Maybe we can use this thread to collect them?

I have several on my Media Portrayal Project (http://www.democracyweb.com/asian/media/) pages (long in need of an update): Shogun, Blood Alley, Ninja Academy, and Gymkata.

Offhand I can also think of Sayonara (Marlon Brando), Death Ring (Mike Norris), and the long series of American Ninja (Michael Dudikoff), American Samurai (David Bradley), Rambo (Sylvester Stallone) and Missing in Action (Chuck Norris) films.
So is anyone going to help me build this list? I'm sure there are many others and I can remember some in particular, but I just can't remember the titles.

[ren28]

How about Jean Claude Van Damme movies? :lol:

[Craig]

Originally posted by Andrew@Oct 17 2002, 04:16 AM
So is anyone going to help me build this list? I'm sure there are many others and I can remember some in particular, but I just can't remember the titles.

No mention of the infamous World of Suzy Wong with William Holden and Nancy Kwan ?

[Hito]

I am not sure how shogun makes the europeon superrior.
Plenty of white folks died during the icture which is never a bad thing :D
And even tho Blackthorn's relationship with the Lady Mariko crosses the euroPeon man with the Asian woman line.
In the end it is Lord Toranaga who clearly holds the upper hand.
He alone holds the fate of blackthorn and can extinguish his life any time he wants.
He even says as much in the ending naration.
I get the impression that Tpranaga kept blackthorn around as an amusement or a pawn more than anything.
Lord Toranaga was a bad muthafucka (like the actor who plays him)

Karate Kid II was my favorite film of that entire franchise.
(Mostly because of Tamlyn Tomita, whom i fell in love with)
The score was really great and I also really liked the dramatic ark of Mr. Miyagi and those around him.
Especialy the redemption ark of his friend/nemesis Sato and The romantic ark with Miyagi and Yukio.
Plus Miyagi gets to punk the craka karate instructor in the begining of the movie.

On the down side, even though it put daniel in the role of the clumsy arogent american in the GI club and during the tea cerimony
he still gets to be the white/american super badd during the storm and with getting the Obon dance to be in the castle.
But him beating the shit out of Chozen during the dance seemed over the top to me even when i was a kid.
Here is this dude who barely beat some other white dude in a tornament, but he is able to beat the shit out of a japanese guy who has been learning martial arts since he was a child and who teaches american GIs to fight!

I had High hopes for Hunted which came out just after Lambert did Highlander 3. but to my disapointment I realized that It would have been a much better film without him.
Lone and Harada were great adverseries but Lambert just got in the way.
Oh and Joan Chen is foyne too...

[Quoc_N]

i suppose white guys are more marketable than asian guys. and if they're going to have an asian guy in a film, watch them make him really FoB or white-washed.

do asian males detract viewers to films? maybe. just like having an ugly main characters. are we that ugly? talking to a few woman (and gay guys), they seem to prefer the look of white guys than asian (although some of the guys seem to have some asian fetishes haha).

yeah... so like maybe a money thing for marketing/casting since the cast is part of what will bring people to see their movies.

and as for being superior, i wouldn't really know. we should be treated equally/indifferently in respect to our races, but that doesn't mean we are equal. like they had that court case about separate not being equal. as for certain races being balanced somehow be quirks or something, that sounds like a fairy-tale. a white friend of mine seems to insist that white > asian, and i dont have much firepower against him.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Quoc_N@Oct 17 2002, 08:14 AM
a white friend of mine seems to insist that white > asian, and i dont have much firepower against him.
Why is this person your friend if he holds such beliefs ? Why do you feel compelled to justify that your race is equal (or better) than his race ?

[angel nympho]

I never really understood the whole Fast and the Furious thing. I liked the fact that Asians rode the badass bikes. Who cares that they were the bad guy, at least we were IN it. And jeeze, it's not like we OWN the idea of fixing up cars.

[DaBestSpooner]

Originally posted by karizma@Oct 16 2002, 10:46 PM
>> oh shit i was watching that morning musume show...i had no idea what in the hell it was though..just a bunch of japanese girls doing some oddball shit...and me not understanding japanese didnt help either lol. i was only watching it cause i was debating which one was the cutest.
morning masume is the world's biggest pop music group , unless you count meneudo where they replace members once they turn 15. They keep adding new members, I guess the novelty is to have as many cute girls as possible screaming sugar coated songs in unison.

[ren28]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 17 2002, 07:00 PM
I never really understood the whole Fast and the Furious thing. I liked the fact that Asians rode the badass bikes. Who cares that they were the bad guy, at least we were IN it. And jeeze, it's not like we OWN the idea of fixing up cars.
Not only did they portray Asians as gangsters and thugs, the whole movie just sucks in general.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ren28@Oct 17 2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 17 2002, 07:00 PM
I never really understood the whole Fast and the Furious thing. &nbsp;I liked the fact that Asians rode the badass bikes. &nbsp;Who cares that they were the bad guy, at least we were IN it. &nbsp;And jeeze, it's not like we OWN the idea of fixing up cars.
Not only did they portray Asians as gangsters and thugs, the whole movie just sucks in general.
But there were other Asians in it, too. Especially since they filmed alot of that movie in Westminster, all the people at the shows and an awful lot of non-major characters driving cars were all Asian. They had advertisements in the Vietnamese newspaper looking for people to be in the movie. I definately think there were TONS of different kinds of Asians portrayed in it. Just happened that the major roles occuped by Asians were the thugs. Ain't no thing to me, though, havn't you guys been complaining about being portrayed as wimps?

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 17 2002, 11:46 PM
I definately think there were TONS of different kinds of Asians portrayed in ["The Fast and the Furious"]. &nbsp;Just happened that the major roles occuped by Asians were the thugs. &nbsp;Ain't no thing to me, though, havn't you guys been complaining about being portrayed as wimps?
In response to Sarah's posts, I'd like to reprint something that I wrote earlier this year on Yahoo's Asian American Entertainment club — and its a long one, I know. My post was in response to one Ji Hyun Lee, who made many of the same arguments that Sarah is making. My post occasionally makes reference to the "Asian Stereotypes" article on the MANAA Web site. This was my reply:



I need to respond to this post again because it engages in some
rhetorical acrobatics that I'd like to address. First, let me tell
you where I'm coming from: I have a Master's degree in film history
and work in the lower eschelons of the entertainment industry in
L.A. I have seen up-close the excuses and twisted logic that the
entertainment executives use to keep Asian characters off the
screen or only in supporting roles (usually — but not only — the
villain, the asexual supporting character, or the white hero's
girlfriend). Often, the excuse is: "We need a star for the lead, and
there aren't any Asian American stars" (and, of course, there
aren't going to BE any Asian American stars if Asian American
actors aren't cast in starring roles). Another is, "The audience
needs someone to identify with" (the assumption being that
audiences can't identify with Asian characters).

However, I also belong to an Asian American community
organization that monitors the media, criticizes problematic
portrayals, and awards those portrayals deserving of praise.
Last year, for example, we awarded the Jackie Chan movie
"Shanghai Noon," "Charlie's Angels" for the casting of Lucy Liu,
"V.I.P." for the casting of Dustin Nguyen, and the reality series
"Big Brother" for featuring Curtis Kin and Julie Chen. Happily, the
producers of all these works showed up at our ceremony to
accept their awards. So, I think that I can safely say that I'm not
just a nay-sayer.

I am, however, very critical of SOME -- sadly very pervasive --
portrayals of Asian people. What are they? That's the reason
why I posted the link to the "Asian Stereotypes" article: so that
people can see exactly what kinds of portrayals I think are
problematic and whose seemingly incessant recurrence helps
to perpetuate the perception of Asian Americans as
second-class citizens in Western society. I want everyone to
know the reasoning behind my criticisms and to know that I do
not object to everything or just anything:


Now, Ji Hyun Lee objects to my objection of Rick Yune's
character in "The Fast and the Furious" ("F&F"). I objected
because "F&F" takes an originally Asian American phenomenon,
import-car racing, and whitewashes it with white lead characters.
Then, the movie makes EVERY Asian character in the story a
villain. In the end, we're supposed to cheer when the white lead
characters facilitate the death of Yune's villain. To me, the film's
portrayal of its Asian characters was dehumanizing, and the fact
that the film robbed Asian Americans of the credit for the story's
subject matter was a double insult.

--- In asianamerican_entertainment@y..., "Ji Hyun Lee"
<jihyunjlee@e...> wrote:
> Look, this is all great about humanizing characters but
seriously, did any character in Fast and Furious have that much
more depth than Rick Yune's?

Yes, we, the audience, were clearly intended to identify and
sympathize with the white and Latino lead characters. To that
extent, the film gave these characters more depth and humanity.
By contrast, we never got to know Rick Yune's character outside
of his villainous acts (forcing gasoline down a white guy's throat,
etc.).

It was a slick romp of a film, a summer crowd pleaser-- not
particularly well-written or directed.

But it was extremely popular. Even poorly made movies can be
very influential and help to foster negative attitudes towards
Asian people.

But for you to shift the responsibility of ethnic perception on a
single actor is both unfair and detrimentally damaging and
discouraging to the Asian artist community.

I don't blame just one actor for the state of Asian representation.
I blame a whole host of institutionalized industry practices for
that. But, yes, I do fault Rick Yune for participating in "F&F's"
whitewashing and vilification of an Asian American
phenomenon. And I would fault any Asian American actor for
participating in any similarly egregious production.

...For me, and I'm sure many others, I perceived he was a
typical Hollywood villain who happened to be Chinese.

I'm not going to accept Hollywood villains who "happen to be
Asian" until I start seeing some Hollywood HEROES who just
"happen to be Asian," and whose ethnicity is incidental to the
story (e.g., they don't know kung fu). Hollywood keeps coming up
with a million excuses why a movie's hero can't be Asian, so the
industry is clearly not colorblind on that point. Therefore, I don't
believe that they are being "colorblind" when it comes to casting
the villains.

You saw it as, "he's a villain because he's Chinese."

AND because there were no Asian non-villains in "F&F." EVERY
Asian in that movie was a gangster, a gangster's moll, or
background — and the heroes were all non-Asian. When every
representative of a particular race in a movie is villainous, and
the members of the other races are not, that strikes me as
profiling.

It wasn't enough that the filmmaker chose to include a scene
where Johnny's home is raided by cops while his family is in the
midst of dinner?

Absolutely not. After all of the villainous acts that Yune's
character engages in -- murdering and torturing white people,
etc. -- the police raid comes off as completely justifiable. This
scene in no way counterbalances the vilifaction of the movie's
Asian characters.

When you say "humanity" do you mean "sympathetic?"

I mean understandable and relatable. As I said in my previous
post, Asian bad guys are okay as long as we know where they're
coming from and as long as they're not just the
ethnically-marked antithesis of a non-Asian hero. "F&F" had
none of that. I had no idea where Yune's character was coming
from. I had no idea what motivated him besides his desire to
"get" the white heroes. That struck me as quite dehumanizing.

...We need to walk before we can run, run before we can fly.

But you're not going to walk, run, or fly at all if you just
uncritically accept — and make excuses for — such egregiously
dehumanizing Asian portrayals. Hollywood is much more
comfortable casting whites as leads and Asians as villains. If
you accept this racially discriminatory double standard,
Hollywood is going to have absolutely no incentive to do anything
different

Consider the case of Bruce Lee. Bruce proved himself to be star
material when he played the role of the Asian sidekick Kato on
the 1960s TV series "The Green Hornet." But once the show
was canceled, Bruce was stuck in villain roles and more
sidekick roles — despite his stellar charisma and athletic
abilities. He made most of his money in this period by teaching
martial arts to white Hollywood stars. Bruce had to go back to
Hong Kong — where his race was not an obstacle — in order to
start playing lead roles in movies. Only AFTER his Hong Kong
movies proved their profitabilty was Hollywood willing to
co-produce his lead role in "Enter the Dragon." If Bruce had
stayed in Hollywood, it's unlikely that he would have become a
movie star. Bruce's story exemplifies Hollywood's resistance to
casting Asian actors in lead roles. It's something that Hollywood
needs to be prodded into doing. They're not going to do it if
Asian American audiences uncritically accept Asian American
actors in supporting — especially villain — roles.

Asian men were once portrayed as weak and nerdy
businessmen. You all complained about being "asexualized" by
Hollywood. But Rick Yune's Johnny was contrary to that
stereotype.

But the "asexual" Asian man is not the only sterotype. Portraying
Asians as villains out to "get" the white heroes is just as
damaging a stereotype because it drives home the idea that
Asian people are inherently incompatable to white society — and
by extention, that Asian Americans don't really fit into America.
Unfortunately, because of the "asexual" Asian-male stereotype,
there are a lot of Asian American men out there who are so
starved for portrayals of Asian virility that they will accept a
dehumanizing Asian villain, just as long as he's virile. But this
doesn't solve anything: vilifying Asian virility is just as
problematic as any "emasculated" Asian male portrayal.

...If you all sit there and articulately destroy every Asian role
that appears on screen, every piece of literature, for not being the
perfect portrayal, no one is ever going to hire us, produce us.
Besides, this perfect portrayal of Asians-- it doesn't exist!

First of all, I didn't "destroy every Asian role that appears on the
screen." I objected to this one, particularly egregious portrayal of
Asians in "F&F." As I said in a previous post, I largely agree with
your favorable support of "The Joy Luck Club" and "Ally McBeal."
And as I also said, I have actively worked to award deserving
media producers for their positive Asian portrayals in the hope
that other media producers will emulate them. But when I
criticize one portrayal of Asians, you accuse me of criticizing all
Asian portrayals. That simply isn't true. And I never said
anything about Asian portrayals needing to be "perfect." Again,
check out the "Asian Stereotypes" article [on the MANAA Web site].

Never even crossed my mind, this fact about import-car racing
being started by us. If Hollywood didn't give us credit for that, it
doesn't bother me. All I really care about is seeing more us out
there, looking cool and having a significant say in the moving
forward of the plot.

Well, I think that it should bother you. If Hollywood is going to
cover up Asian American contributions to American culture -- to
credit those contributions to non-Asians instead -- it's going to
make it that much harder for the community's contributions to be
recognized and acknowledged. And from a dramatic
perspective, if Hollywood keeps whitewashing Asian American
subject matter with white lead characters, where are your Asian
American lead roles going to come from?

I know of an Asian American female lawyer who was involved not
long ago in a high-profile legal case, and Hollywood soon came
knocking to make a movie out of the trial that she prosecuted.
But although the production company wanted to tell the story
from her POV, it also wanted to change her character to a white
lawyer on the grounds that "the audience needs an American
hero to identify with." The lawyer pointed out that she IS an
American and declined to have anything to do with the film. Now,
would you have supported the production company's racial
switch as long as Asian American actors were cast in the
movie [in supporting roles]?

I could go on, but I'm tired of writing. And I doubt that anyone's
read this far. Clearly, you give Hollywood too much credit. Asian
portrayals in the media need to be looked at more critically if
Asian Americans are to move forward. Uncritically accepting all
Asian portrayals in the name of "supporting" Asian American
actors will just tell Hollywood that it's okay to keep cranking out
the same old marginalizing, vilifying, and dehumanizing images.

[angel nympho]

Okay, but not EVERY SINGLE Asian person in the film was a villain. There were a lot of other Asians in the movie. Look closer next time.

And again, we do not own the import car scene. It's arrogant to think that a movie about something some Asian people do will star only Asian people.

Villainous as he was, I think Rick Yune's character broke a lot of stereotypes. He wasn't some accent-sporting, geeky-glasses-wearing, wimp. And he wasn't ugly, he wasn't poor, and he wasn't powerless. And I don't think he was just out to get the white guys. He was a villain 'cuz he wanted to make money by fucking up trucks and stealing their shit.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 17 2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Quoc_N@Oct 17 2002, 08:14 AM
a white friend of mine seems to insist that white > asian, and i dont have much firepower against him.
Why is this person your friend if he holds such beliefs ? Why do you feel compelled to justify that your race is equal (or better) than his race ?
i have friends like that too. but i look at them and laf at their insecurities. such as hair, height, looks, intelligence. i think it just makes ppl feel better to make others feel worse.

See, i'm not like that. I give as much as i recieve but i find that i am offended first more often. and can't seem to pinpoiint why. Is it because i'm ASIAN?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Oct 18 2002, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 17 2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Quoc_N@Oct 17 2002, 08:14 AM
a white friend of mine seems to insist that white > asian, and i dont have much firepower against him.
Why is this person your friend if he holds such beliefs ? Why do you feel compelled to justify that your race is equal (or better) than his race ?
i have friends like that too. but i look at them and laf at their insecurities. such as hair, height, looks, intelligence. i think it just makes ppl feel better to make others feel worse.

See, i'm not like that. I give as much as i recieve but i find that i am offended first more often. and can't seem to pinpoiint why. Is it because i'm ASIAN?
It's my belief that if these people really believed they were superior to you because of their race, they probably wouldn't be your friends... through no choice of YOURS. Why would they want to be friends with people they thought were inferior?

And why would YOU allow them to think this way by continuing to be friends with them? It's like you're tolerating their beliefs if you just accept that as their beliefs and leave it alone.

ChairmanMah, maybe you get offended first because you're friends with people who think it's okay to believe that they're better than you. :cry:

[ChairmanMah]

you make it out like i should lose all my friends.

only a select few can be pricks but we've bugged each other since we were children. i'm not gonna let something like that ruin it for the good times we've been thru. I bug them for things they cant control neither. we find it funny actually. Sometimes we gang up on each other and it's a big gut busting burn fest. :lol:

plus it is difficult not to run into ppl like that when you were part of the drinking scene and everybody knows each other thru someone. you always run into idiots. It's passed off as humor. But i dish out some Humor back. :P

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 18 2002, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Oct 18 2002, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 17 2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Quoc_N@Oct 17 2002, 08:14 AM
a white friend of mine seems to insist that white > asian, and i dont have much firepower against him.
Why is this person your friend if he holds such beliefs ? Why do you feel compelled to justify that your race is equal (or better) than his race ?
i have friends like that too. but i look at them and laf at their insecurities. such as hair, height, looks, intelligence. i think it just makes ppl feel better to make others feel worse.

See, i'm not like that. I give as much as i recieve but i find that i am offended first more often. and can't seem to pinpoiint why. Is it because i'm ASIAN?
It's my belief that if these people really believed they were superior to you because of their race, they probably wouldn't be your friends... through no choice of YOURS. Why would they want to be friends with people they thought were inferior?

And why would YOU allow them to think this way by continuing to be friends with them? It's like you're tolerating their beliefs if you just accept that as their beliefs and leave it alone.

ChairmanMah, maybe you get offended first because you're friends with people who think it's okay to believe that they're better than you. :cry:
as you know, i've been surrounded by white ppl since birth.

i don't just go out to seek asian friends. i am friends w/ ppl whom i happen to come into contact w/ and seem friendly.

I'm not the type to drop childhood friends who were taught racist thoughts. I do however, limit my exposure and maintain my best friends.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Oct 18 2002, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 18 2002, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Oct 18 2002, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 17 2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Quoc_N@Oct 17 2002, 08:14 AM
a white friend of mine seems to insist that white > asian, and i dont have much firepower against him.
Why is this person your friend if he holds such beliefs ? Why do you feel compelled to justify that your race is equal (or better) than his race ?
i have friends like that too. but i look at them and laf at their insecurities. such as hair, height, looks, intelligence. i think it just makes ppl feel better to make others feel worse.

See, i'm not like that. I give as much as i recieve but i find that i am offended first more often. and can't seem to pinpoiint why. Is it because i'm ASIAN?
It's my belief that if these people really believed they were superior to you because of their race, they probably wouldn't be your friends... through no choice of YOURS. Why would they want to be friends with people they thought were inferior?

And why would YOU allow them to think this way by continuing to be friends with them? It's like you're tolerating their beliefs if you just accept that as their beliefs and leave it alone.

ChairmanMah, maybe you get offended first because you're friends with people who think it's okay to believe that they're better than you. :cry:
as you know, i've been surrounded by white ppl since birth.

i don't just go out to seek asian friends. i am friends w/ ppl whom i happen to come into contact w/ and seem friendly.

I'm not the type to drop childhood friends who were taught racist thoughts. I do however, limit my exposure and maintain my best friends.
I agree. I was also surrounded by white people from birth. When the occasion comes that I meet somebody who thinks they're better than me because of their race, I don't just drop it. I compete with them. I try to prove that race has nothing to do with merit. If they drop the subject, I'll be friends. If not, then I don't need to associate myself with negative people.

I really don't like racism. My friends know better than to think I'm subordinate to them because of my race. I may be subordinate to them in OTHER ways, but they know it has nothing to do with the color I was born.

And I don't have childhood friends that were taught racist thoughts. If they were taught racist thoughts, they usually didn't want to be friends with me. And if we were childhood friends, our moms talked and stuff. So their parents usually weren't known to be racist or anything.

I'm not saying you should drop your friends who were taught that they're better than you because they're white, I'm saying teach them a thing or two.



<!--EDIT|angel nympho|Oct 18 2002, 10:05 PM-->

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 18 2002, 10:04 PM

I agree. I was also surrounded by white people from birth. When the occasion comes that I meet somebody who thinks they're better than me because of their race, I don't just drop it. I compete with them. I try to prove that race has nothing to do with merit. If they drop the subject, I'll be friends. If not, then I don't need to associate myself with negative people.

I really don't like racism. My friends know better than to think I'm subordinate to them because of my race. I may be subordinate to them in OTHER ways, but they know it has nothing to do with the color I was born.

And I don't have childhood friends that were taught racist thoughts. If they were taught racist thoughts, they usually didn't want to be friends with me. And if we were childhood friends, our moms talked and stuff. So their parents usually weren't known to be racist or anything.

I'm not saying you should drop your friends who were taught that they're better than you because they're white, I'm saying teach them a thing or two.
like i said before, they just joke to make themselves feel better since they aren't as successful. I know they realize i'm a real person and i rep myself not my race. They kid around w/ the s.types but i know they're kidding. If i'm not in the mood and i get angry they always mention they're just kidding. I don't hold it against them. I make fun of them too.

I just find that it they are my friends and they joke w/ me, those who aren't my friends are far worse. Which brings me to the conclusion that most white ppl are the most stereotypical and racist.

[angel nympho]

^-- Well, then I'd say that your friends who joke around aren't racist. They're just comfortable around you.

I wouldn't exactly agree that most white people are stereotypical and racist in their actions. I think that many (maybe even most) are definately so in their thoughts... most people use their intellect to tell themselves that their initial stereotypical thoughts are to be ignored. I think even I force myself to ignore stereotypical thoughts on occasion. But even though many choose to ignore these thoughts, they come out on occasion when people are with those they feel comfortable with. I find that my friends who occasionally make comments at me in jest (referring to me as their "little Asian sex symbol," etc) do so because they feel comfortable enough around me to say things they would never say otherwise, not because they actually are being racist. The way I see it, they feel they can joke about these thoughts BECAUSE they know they are unfounded.



<!--EDIT|angel nympho|Oct 19 2002, 08:33 AM-->

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 18 2002, 12:53 AM
Okay, but not EVERY SINGLE Asian person in the film was a villain. There were a lot of other Asians in the movie. Look closer next time.

And again, we do not own the import car scene. It's arrogant to think that a movie about something some Asian people do will star only Asian people.

Villainous as he was, I think Rick Yune's character broke a lot of stereotypes. He wasn't some accent-sporting, geeky-glasses-wearing, wimp. And he wasn't ugly, he wasn't poor, and he wasn't powerless. And I don't think he was just out to get the white guys. He was a villain 'cuz he wanted to make money by fucking up trucks and stealing their shit.
I totally agree here. In fact I actually liked his character much more than any of the other characters because it was well, the most realistic. How many 22 year old kids can possibly be trusted to handle secret agent responsibilities to tackle this theft thing. Hell I think Yune's character in this film was freakin awesome. I liked it a lot better than the role he had in "snow falling on cedars". Which in my opinion was a good movie much better than F&F and very educationial and entertaining, but for some reason i felt that he didnt really fit in at all.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Oct 24 2002, 04:19 PM
Reminds me of those Westerns where you have the lost cowboy, nursed back to health by "Zen-like" Indians, where a pretty Indian girl just so happens to be in the vicinity...

He learns the way of "the people"....maybe gains the wrath of a jealous suitor....(but, the suitor winds up helping him in the end)...

Reminds me, I need to catch "Dances with Wolves"---Dang thing is, Kevin Costner directed pics are too long!
hahhah yeah, movies like Dances with Wolves are movies that are supposed to be about native americans but are really about some white dude.