Movies and/or portrayals every Asian American should see [Archive]

Shuriken

03-16-2005, 01:05 PM

Is there a movie and/or portrayal or role that you strongly believe that every Asian American should see? For either positive or negative reasons.

I'm tempted to respond to this question with a laundry list of well-known and obscure movie titles longer than my ... uh ... arm. But if I did this, I'm afraid that most YWers would think I was just showing off, and they probably wouldn't get through reading the list — much less checking out the films on video.

So, what I've decided to do instead is to make my own Top Ten list (oldest to youngest) of Occidental films about Asian people that work for me as films — as entertaining creative works that I wouldn't mind watching again right now.

In a later post, I will follow this with another Top Ten of Occidental films about Asian people that are important, in my opinion, for historical reasons. Then, I will include a few examples of Occidental films that I think are particularly objectionable for their portrayal of Asians. Finally, I will finish off with a handful of honorable mentions, movies concerning Asian people that don't fit comfortably into one category or the other. This ought to make my list more manageable and readable than my initial impulse would have been.

For better or worse, I've decided to exclude from my lists those Asian American documentaries not concerned with Asian images in film. Why? Because I have sat through more Asian American documentaries in my time than I can remember, and they all seem to blend into each other when I think about them. With most Asian American documentaries that I have seen, the films' content usually overtakes the filmmakers' way of expressing it cinematically. It's as if the urgency of communicating the little-known Asian American subject matter trounced any consideration for how that content would be communicated. If an Asian American documentary that you've heard about concerns a topic that's important to you, you should probably try to see it, regardless of its execution.

That said, I would second the recommendation for Christine Choy and Renee Tajima's documentary WHO KILLED VINCENT CHIN? (1987) as a film that's well made in addition to its important content. Freida Lee Mock's Oscar-winning non-fiction profile MAYA LIN: A STRONG, CLEAR VISION (1994), about the Chinese American artist who is best remembered for designing the Vietnam War Veterans' Memorial, and Renee Tajima-Peña's MY AMERICA...OR HONK IF YOU LOVE BUDDHA (1997) are other standout documentaries.

Without further ado, here is my list of the Top Ten best Occidental feature films and TV movies with Asian subject matter. My original roll-call included Bruce Lee's ENTER THE DRAGON (1973) and Disney's MULAN (1998), but I figure that everybody already knows about those two movies:

http://www.6nema.com/HiroshimaMonAmour/image_HiroshimaMonAmour.jpg

HIROSHIMA MON AMOUR (1959)

This French-Japanese co-production not only features a rare virile Asian-male lead having a torrid affair with a white woman, but it also helped to kick-start the 1960s "New Wave" film movement. Screenplay by the same woman, Marguerite Duras, who wrote the similarly themed novel The Lover and infinitely better than that book's 1992 film adaptation.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/internment/manzanar.jpg

FAREWELL TO MANZANAR (1976)

This NBC movie of the week remains the only time U.S. popular culture has dramatized a story of the Japanese American internment primarily through the eyes of Nikkei characters. The urgency of the material — and its Asian American perspective — still shines through the corner-cutting of the TV-movie budget. (Not available on video to my knowledge.)

http://www.galwest.com/photography/contemporary/film_commecial/gandhi_kingsley2.jpg

GANDHI (1982)

Don't let the multiple Oscar wins (including Best Picture) and Masterpiece Theatre-ish take on the subject put you off. This epic bio-pic of the Mahatma remains a completely absorbing triumph of peace-making over war-making, a refreshing rebuttal to those who say that martial arts and other images of violence are the ultimate expressions of Asian power on the screen. See Gandhi chip away at the British Empire without striking a blow or firing a shot. Ben Kingsley (né Krishna Bhanji) remains the only Asian actor to win an Oscar for a lead role.

http://www.brns.com/hkactors/picts/coram1.jpg

DIM SUM (1985)

Wayne Wang's sophomore (but not sophomoric) feature about a Chinese American woman growing away from her immigrant mother in San Francisco radiates compassion with its Ozu-like sense of understatement. Not as rough-hewn as Wang's Chan Is Missing (1981) and without The Joy Luck Club's (1993) problematic view of Asian men.

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Village/9230/Garconh2.jpg

THE WEDDING BANQUET (1993)

A sitcommish set-up — a Taiwanese immigrant marries a Chinese woman to hide his homosexuality from his parents — instead blooms into a nuanced and touching view of very real human beings. A movie on this subject may put off those who feel that Asian men and homosexuality are too often linked in U.S. popular culture, but in director Ang Lee's hands, the story rises above cliché.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/cinema/images/buddha_suburbia1_lead.jpg

THE BUDDHA OF SUBURBIA (TV, 1993)

British writer Hanif Kureishi, in a screenplay based on his novel, crafts a flip and outré view of a Pakistani Briton's coming into adulthood in this four-hour TV mini-series. A worthy successor to Kureishi's My Beautiful Laundrette (1985) and Sammy and Rosie Get Laid (1987).

http://www.naatanet.org/Exhibition/html/sfiaaff97/fest_pics/yellow.gif

YELLOW (1996)

This edgy independent film — about a group of Korean American friends on the day of high-school graduation — bristles with fine performances and an intriguingly uncomfortable view of black-Asian relations.

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/06.04.98/gifs/shopping-fangs-9822.jpg

SHOPPING FOR FANGS (1997)

Lycanthropy as a cure for Asian emasculation? Is Jeanne Chin being stalked by a wig-wearing lesbian? And what about Naomi? You'll just have to see for yourself in this provocative indie production co-directed by Quentin Lee and a pre-Better Luck Tomorrow Justin Lin.

http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~monika/screen/CHT/images/wellenreiter020.jpg

JOHNNY TSUNAMI (TV, 1999)

A hapa boy moves with his Asian American father and white mother (!) from the comfort of sunny Hawaii to the wintry whiteness (and I don't just mean the snow) of Vermont. When the kid faces a crisis, he flees back to Hawaii and the sage advice of his grandfather, a drop-out surfer (Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa). This made-for-TV Disney Channel movie touches on some prickly issues, racial and otherwise, but because its target audience is children, the film can address them in a non-confrontational way. Not just for youngsters.

kimpossible

03-16-2005, 01:37 PM

I'm tempted to respond to this question with a laundry list of well-known and obscure movie titles longer than my ... uh ... arm. But if I did this, I'm afraid that most YWers would think I was just showing off, and they probably wouldn't get through reading the list — much less checking out the films on video.

Break it up into smaller, more digestible posts to space it apart. The size of that list was good, I thought. I didn't know about Johnny Tsumani.

thaite

03-16-2005, 01:57 PM

Breakfast at Tiffany's
Sixteen Candles
Gung Ho.

and any other movie made in the 80s that had an Asian in it.

moJo

03-16-2005, 02:22 PM

Johnny Tsunami was a cute movie.

Yellow was horrendous, mostly cuz i couldn't ignore the horrendous acting by the main character. i coulda sworn it was the director Chris Chan Lee himself as the main character, but from IMDB, it says it's Michael Daeho Chung. Jason Tobin of BLT was the best part of the movie. He's a real scene-stealer.

I'd recommend Robot Stories and Harold & Kumar. I've always wanted to see Shopping For Fangs.

SunWuKong

03-16-2005, 07:21 PM

i thought Yellow and Shopping for Fangs were good. the latter was nod toward WKW's direction. :smile:

Shuriken

03-16-2005, 07:38 PM

DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT HISTORY...

Below is a list of movies that are worth knowing about for historical reasons, but most are also worth watching for their entertainment value as well. The list includes one TV show that I haven't seen.

http://silentgents.com/Hayakawa/Haya15.jpg

THE TONG MAN (1919)

One of Sessue Hayakawa's few post-The Cheat starring roles in Hollywood to make it to video. With Hayakawa's charisma, the shadowy title character becomes the good guy. The last scene is rather ironic: Hayakawa's hero and his love interest (Helen Jerome Eddy in yellowface) sail into the setting sun away from America.

http://www.25frames.org/media/screens/2892.jpg

THE TOLL OF THE SEA (1922)

This hackneyed resetting of Madame Butterfly in China is important in the history books not only because it marked a 17-year-old Anna May Wong's first starring role, but because it was the first successful two-color Technicolor feature film to be commercially distributed.

http://www.naatanet.org/festival/2004/html/images/anna%20may/daughter.jpg

DAUGHTER OF SHANGHAI (1938)

As far as I can tell, this is the first Hollywood film of the sound era to feature an acculturated Asian American couple, played by Asian American actors, at the center of the drama. This Paramount production was conceived as a vehicle for Anna May Wong, who gets top billing, though she is more acted-upon than an instigator of action. Philip Ahn's centrality to the story as its mystery-solving hero belies his lowly eighth billing. A rarity in her career, Wong's character doesn't die. Not only that, but in the end, she accepts the Ahn character's proposal of marriage.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008G8WI.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

PHANTOM OF CHINATOWN (1940)

Perhaps the only other film from Hollywood's studio era (roughly 1930-1955) to have an Asian American hero and an Asian American female love interest, both played by Asian American actors. Keye Luke stars as the fully acculturated Chinese American detective, James Lee Wong, a refreshing antidote to the yellowface and fortune-cookie aphorisms of Charlie Chan. Although there are no overt displays of affection, Lotus Long (née Pearl Suyetomi) plays the Luke character's flirtatious love interest.

http://hawkeye.m78.com/CoolEditor/GoForBrokeMovie.gif

GO FOR BROKE! (1951)

This combat movie about the Japanese American 442nd Regimental Combat Team is told — of course — from the perspective of its white commanding officer, played by Van Johnson. Nevertheless, it's good to see some acknowledgment of the 442nd's heroism so soon after the internment. Members of the 442nd playing themselves include Lane Nakano, George Miki, and Akira Fukunaga.

http://www.geh.org/ar/strip89/m197402380091.jpg

THE GALLERY OF MADAME LIU-TSONG (TV, 1951)

Reportedly, this is the first U.S. network TV show with an Asian American lead character, played by a performer of the same: Anna May Wong. According to some sources, Wong played a gallery owner who doubled as a sleuth. Sadly, we may never know for certain. The broadcaster, the short-lived DuMont Network, reputedly wiped clean all surviving tapes of the series, which ran from August to November of 1951. A recognizable Asian American actor would not play a lead role in a U.S. network TV series again until Pat Morita co-starred with Susan Blanchard in Mr. T and Tina (1976-77).

http://www.25frames.org/media/screens/2884.jpg

THE CRIMSON KIMONO (1959)

As Hollywood's studio era drew to a close, and the movies started the long tradition of pairing an Asian ingènue with a white male lead, this Samuel Fuller "B" mystery for Columbia was one of the few to pair a male Asian American hero (James Shigeta as a Japanese American cop) with a white female romantic interest (Victoria Shaw). Furthermore, and still atypical for Hollywood today, Shigeta beats a worthy white rival (Glenn Corbett) for Shaw's affections.

http://www.nancy-kwan.com/nancyA3.jpg

FLOWER DRUM SONG (1961)

This big-budget movie of Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein's Broadway musical marks Hollywood's only major (non-co-)production with an (almost) all-Asian cast, including Nancy Kwan, James Shigeta, Miyoshi Umeki, and Jack Soo. The only prominent Chinese American character not to be played by an Asian is Madame Leong, performed by African American actress Juanita Hall, who originated the role on Broadway and replaced an ailing Anna May Wong. Today, the movie seems rather dated and corny, but the sight of so many Asian American performers commanding the center of the spotlight — and presumably having the time of their lives — gives the film an electric charge.

http://www.naatanet.org/festival/2002/film_index/images/15.jpg

CHAN IS MISSING (1981)

With his first feature, a low-budget independent production, Wayne Wang took films about Asian Americans out of the trivial and into more disturbing territory. The lead characters, played by Wood Moy and Marc Hayashi, look for a missing man named Chan. The title recalls the detective of the same name, as Moy and Hayashi stand the image of the sleuth and his "Number One Son" on its head. By investigating the disappearance, the two lead characters encounter some troubling clashes between Chinese American culture and the broader American society. The black-and-white photography and shaky hand-held camerawork give this a cinéma-vérité feel.

http://www.film.org.pl/images/stone/hvn2.jpg

HEAVEN & EARTH (1993)

While the Vietnam War was raging, Hollywood treated the subject almost like a leper. After the war, and The Deer Hunter's (1978) numerous Oscars, U.S. screens seemed deluged with movies about the controversial conflict. However, most of them were little more than familiar stories of a white American protagonist's trial-by-fire in a foreign land. Fresh from his Vietnam-themed successes Platoon (1986) and Born on the Fourth of July (1989), director Oliver Stone was in a position to tell his third film about the war from the point of view of a Vietnamese lead character, played by Vietnamese American Hiep Thi Le. Despite Stone's heavy-handed visuals, this unusual perspective on both the war and middle-class America strikes a refreshing counterpoint to the gung-ho militarism of most Hollywood Vietnam movies. And even though the lead character marries a white American serviceman, played by Tommy Lee Jones, this is not just another "white knight" fantasy.

Jung Rhee

03-16-2005, 07:41 PM

I saw the broadway version of flower drum song and then saw the movie. It was funny with all the Japanese acting as Chinese, plus suzie wong.

SunWuKong

03-16-2005, 08:25 PM

I saw the broadway version of flower drum song and then saw the movie. It was funny with all the Japanese acting as Chinese, plus suzie wong.

and now we've got Chinese actors playing Japanese characters in Memoirs of a Geisha. hahhah the irony.

Banana

03-17-2005, 07:01 AM

Big Trouble in Little China.

Not to be confused with the fecal matter known as Showdown in Little Tokyo.

Shuriken

03-17-2005, 08:38 AM

Big Trouble in Little China.

What do fans like about this movie?

(Question asked in a non-accusatory way.)

kitty

03-17-2005, 08:41 AM

Banana

03-17-2005, 10:12 AM

What do fans like about this movie?

(Question asked in a non-accusatory way.)

I like it for several reasons actually. Some of them include:

1.) The movie is so stereotypical and campy that no one can take it seriously.

2.) The "main" Asian guy speaks perfect English and is obviously American born or Americanized so he doesn't have some accent and shows that he's proud of being American in many subtle ways.

3.) He also manages to get the girl in the end as well.

4.) Supporting Asian guy follows the same mantra as the "main" Asian guy. American born or Americanized and gets a girl at the end or so you assume. You have the old grandpa type character but he comes off more as lovable and funny without being insulting to himself and culture.

5.) The last reason is the most important part. You have the white male lead (Kurt Russell) and he's your typical arrogant self centered white male but the important aspect is that he doesn't insult or degrade the Chinese culture at all. The comedy coming from him doesn't come at the expense of the Chinese. In fact, he's usually the butt of all the jokes and is actually the fish out of water unlike the Jackie Chan movie Rush Hour 2, where even in Hong Kong, the Chinese people were the ones being made fun of.

rice cracker

03-17-2005, 10:20 AM

What do fans like about this movie?

(Question asked in a non-accusatory way.)

It's hard to explain, it just rocks in so many ways. For fans of science fiction and fantasy it has many elements that are appealing.

Oh, except the Chinese girl with green eyes is not Chinese, though there's always a slim chance she's mixed.

I like it for several reasons actually. Some of them include:

1.) The movie is so stereotypical and campy that no one can take it seriously.

2.) The "main" Asian guy speaks perfect English and is obviously American born or Americanized so he doesn't have some accent and shows that he's proud of being American in many subtle ways.

3.) He also manages to get the girl in the end as well.

4.) Supporting Asian guy follows the same mantra as the "main" Asian guy. American born or Americanized and gets a girl at the end or so you assume. You have the old grandpa type character but he comes off more as lovable and funny without being insulting to himself and culture.

5.) The last reason is the most important part. You have the white male lead (Kurt Russell) and he's your typical arrogant self centered white male but the important aspect is that he doesn't insult or degrade the Chinese culture at all. The comedy coming from him doesn't come at the expense of the Chinese. In fact, he's usually the butt of all the jokes and is actually the fish out of water unlike the Jackie Chan movie Rush Hour 2, where even in Hong Kong, the Chinese people were the ones being made fun of.

I wish I could give you karma, but I have to spread it around. Great post and I like your points.

kimpossible

03-17-2005, 10:32 AM

Oh, except the Chinese girl with green eyes is not Chinese, though there's always a slim chance she's mixed.

I thought Suzie Pai was half Chinese and a former model?

Banana

03-17-2005, 11:05 AM

"Oh, shut up, Mr. Burton. You were not brought upon this earth to get it."

It's like a disease because I have to watch it everytime it's on cable.

rice cracker

03-17-2005, 11:22 AM

I thought Suzie Pai was half Chinese and a former model?

Is she? Because she looks whiter than I do, and that's saying something.

yoMAMA

03-17-2005, 11:36 AM

Big Trouble in Little China.

Good movie!

It's in my DVD collection...suprisingly very good and non racist.

It even featured a nerdy asian detective guy having a crush with a dorky white female reporter...... :tongue:

nola

03-17-2005, 11:43 AM

Gotta re-subscribe to Netflix.

kimpossible

03-17-2005, 02:32 PM

Is she? Because she looks whiter than I do, and that's saying something.

As far as I know she's Caucausian + Chinese. Her listed roles are almost all Asian named. Not that she's had a lot. But if you watch her in Big Trouble she looks more Asian at different angles.

Full on from the front only, I agree she looks really white.

yoMAMA

03-17-2005, 02:37 PM

As far as I know she's Caucausian + Chinese. Her listed roles are almost all Asian named. Not that she's had a lot. But if you watch her in Big Trouble she looks more Asian at different angles.

Full on from the front only, I agree she looks really white.

She could easily had green contact lenses, so her having green eyes is not that big of a deal.

OT: that evil dark lord guy also plays the chinese restraunt owner guy in seinfeld......

s1eve

03-17-2005, 02:46 PM

D.W. Griffith's 'Broken Blossom' (1919)

yoMAMA

03-17-2005, 02:48 PM

D.W. Griffith's 'Broken Blossom' (1919)

Wasn't he the director of the infamous the birth of a nation?

rice cracker

03-17-2005, 02:51 PM

As far as I know she's Caucausian + Chinese. Her listed roles are almost all Asian named. Not that she's had a lot. But if you watch her in Big Trouble she looks more Asian at different angles.

Full on from the front only, I agree she looks really white.

Ah, poo, now I have to stop hating on her "yellowface." :biggrin:

PropellerheadCP

03-17-2005, 06:51 PM

I can't believe no one's mentioned "Kung Phooey".

s1eve

03-17-2005, 07:40 PM

Ang Lee's 'Eat, Drink, Man, Woman'

nameless

03-17-2005, 10:43 PM

Heh, Big Trouble in Little China is a classic for sure.

I think American Desi (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0203289/) is a must see. Even though it's mostly South East Indian issues and humor, there are a lot of parts that Asian Americans (especially guys) will be able to relate to. I found the father / son relationship especially poignant.

SunWuKong

03-18-2005, 06:11 AM

Heh, Big Trouble in Little China is a classic for sure.

i like Big Trouble in Little China because of the supernatural characters. plus it was hilarious.

I think American Desi (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0203289/) is a must see. Even though it's mostly South East Indian issues and humor, there are a lot of parts that Asian Americans (especially guys) will be able to relate to. I found the father / son relationship especially poignant.

that was a great movie. and it's got Kal Penn in it.

yoMAMA

03-18-2005, 09:23 AM

I can't believe no one's mentioned "Kung Phooey".

haha...i heard it was pretty funny.

:tongue:

moJo

03-18-2005, 09:26 AM

yoMAMA

03-18-2005, 09:28 AM

did anyone mention joy luck club ?

[hides in a corner]. :redface:

YuheiCarreau

03-18-2005, 02:55 PM

i see what yer sayin', jenn. it's just that i am not a fan of older movies. anything older than the 90's, and some 80's films. i figure there are others out there who are the same way...

East is East was hilarious. but i don't know if it's something that is crucial for all asian ams to see.

Well, EAST IS EAST is set in England and it's about a mixed family with a Pakistani father and White mother, so I'm not sure how much the average AA is going to identify with it... It's also set in the 1970's, which makes it a even less relevant to the modern-day AA identity.

It is a really good movie though. My mom thought the violent scene towards the end was a little jarring, but overall I really liked the way it depicted the family.

yoMAMA

03-18-2005, 03:07 PM

Bend it like Beckham!

I heard it's really good.

moJo

03-18-2005, 03:24 PM

Bend it like Beckham!

I heard it's really good.
eh. overrated and kinda cliche.

yoMAMA

03-18-2005, 03:29 PM

eh. overrated and kinda cliche.

I see.

kimpossible

03-18-2005, 03:40 PM

Bend it like Beckham!

I heard it's really good.

Great soundtrack.

Shuriken

03-18-2005, 03:56 PM

it's just that i am not a fan of older movies. anything older than the 90's, and some 80's films. i figure there are others out there who are the same way...

I'm very sad to read these words. And there are indeed others out there who feel the same way. Already, Peter (Lord of the Rings) Jackson is working on a remake of the 1933 classic King Kong on the premise that many audiences simply will not watch a black & white movie — this despite the stinking and sinking of a 1976 color remake of the same film.

How can a community or a society know where it's going if it doesn't know where it's been? It's hard to imagine moJo saying that she would refuse to read a book or view a painting done before the '80s. Her words seem to suggest that movies have nothing to say to an audience beyond their sense of "nowishness," their connection to current concerns. She is denying herself the plentiful pleasures that abound not only in such demanding cinematic exercises as Citizen Kane and The Godfather, but also in such agreed-upon entertainments as The Wizard of Oz and Singin' in the Rain.

I probably can't say anything to moJo that will get her to change her mind. But is it any wonder that the larger society lives with such a willful ignorance of history? Currently, President Bush is engaging in Iraq the very same practices that bogged down U.S. troops in Vietnam — with the same results. Yet, many U.S. citizens are simply too disengaged in what happened all the way back in this country's ancient history (namely 1965 to 1975) to glean from this country's past mistakes. The Spanish-born American philosopher George Santayana (1863-1952) once said, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Granted, repeating a historical blunder is different that remaking a film. But something is still lost. If movie audiences lose all (or even much) appreciation for the flickering images that have gone before — from Chaplin's acrobatics to Bogart's assertiveness to Streisand's voice — we will have relinquished part of our true artistic inheritance. Instead, that is something we ought to claim, to revitalize, and — most importantly of all — to enjoy.

Irezumi Kiss

03-18-2005, 04:26 PM

^ I feel you on that, Shuriken. When I first got my VCR back when I was going to art school, the first movies I snatched up for rent were some of the classic japanese b/w joints from Ozu, Mizoguchi, Kurosawa, et. al...Asian cinema still had yet to "hit" like it does now and Janus Films had some stuff on tape that you wouldn't see on the still-rare film festival circuits. But mostly I think that was because the market back then was pretty much "classics" only for the museum theater-goer cliques that saw them...how times have changed since then!

But I feel what Mojo's saying cuz I had also wanted to see what was going down "now," you know? It's funny these days because I'm getting old joints from the 70s and 80s and it's amusing to see dated fashions, tastes and mindsets as they were "hot" back then.

Sun Wu: If you are still looking for the Chan is Missing joint, check Kim's Video next time you roll through NYC. Or I can stop by next time I go there and see if it might be up for sale. They might just have it on DVD now, but I rented that a loooooooooong time ago from their first store way back when VCRs ruled the land!

kimpossible

03-18-2005, 04:30 PM

I'm very sad to read these words. And there are indeed others out there who feel the same way. Already, Peter (Lord of the Rings) Jackson is working on a remake of the 1933 classic King Kong on the premise that many audiences simply will not watch a black & white movie — this despite the stinking and sinking of a 1976 color remake of the same film.

How can a community or a society know where it's going if it doesn't know where it's been? It's hard to imagine moJo saying that she would refuse to read a book or view a painting done before the '80s. Her words seem to suggest that movies have nothing to say to an audience beyond their sense of "nowishness," their connection to current concerns. She is denying herself the plentiful pleasures that abound not only in such demanding cinematic exercises as Citizen Kane and The Godfather, but also in such agreed-upon entertainments as The Wizard of Oz and Singin' in the Rain.

I probably can't say anything to moJo that will get her to change her mind. But is it any wonder that the larger society lives with such a willful ignorance of history? Currently, President Bush is engaging in Iraq the very same practices that bogged down U.S. troops in Vietnam — with the same results. Yet, many U.S. citizens are simply too disengaged in what happened all the way back in this country's ancient history (namely 1965 to 1975) to glean from this country's past mistakes. The Spanish-born American philosopher George Santayana (1863-1952) once said, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Granted, repeating a historical blunder is different that remaking a film. But something is still lost. If movie audiences lose all (or even much) appreciation for the flickering images that have gone before — from Chaplin's acrobatics to Bogart's assertiveness to Streisand's voice — we will have relinquished part of our true artistic inheritance. Instead, that is something we ought to claim, to revitalize, and — most importantly of all — to enjoy.

Or you can consider that the average American movie goer sees few or no non-English or foreign films and considering moJo's background she's probably well versed in international films, including many non-English language films. There's only so much film each one of us can watch since we don't make a life out of it so I don't see why we either have to single out moJo or make the rash judgement that since she's not watching many older American films that she's limiting herself in absolute terms.

Shuriken

03-18-2005, 05:54 PM

There's only so much film each one of us can watch since we don't make a life out of it so I don't see why we either have to single out moJo or make the rash judgement that since she's not watching many older American films that she's limiting herself in absolute terms.

Well, I've put my case in the best way that I could under the circumstances. If my words didn't sway you, I shall try to do better next time. Only to say that I tried not to "single out moJo" by connecting the tendency to a larger part of the culture.

Suffice it to say that some of us "make a life" out of old movies because there's a lot to value in the vaults. I think that some of this would be interesting even to those who aren't inclined to seek out a movie past a certain period.

But I do think that there's a kind of connection between a disinclination for older movies — and literature and the arts — and a disinclination to be more familiar with history in general. That's not to say that current movies are somehow "inferior" or "less valuable" than what came before. But what came before shouldn't be buried, either.

PropellerheadCP

03-18-2005, 06:25 PM

Bend it like Beckham!

I heard it's really good.

Indian girl, being saved by a white dude. Oh, yes... because we should all have our white knights.

Well, I've put my case in the best way that I could under the circumstances. If my words didn't sway you, I shall try to do better next time. Only to say that I tried not to "single out moJo" by connecting the tendency to a larger part of the culture.

Suffice it to say that some of us "make a life" out of old movies because there's a lot to value in the vaults. I think that some of this would be interesting even to those who aren't inclined to seek out a movie past a certain period.

But I do think that there's a kind of connection between a disinclination for older movies — and literature and the arts — and a disinclination to be more familiar with history in general. That's not to say that current movies are somehow "inferior" or "less valuable" than what came before. But what came before shouldn't be buried, either.

Dude, I was a film major. I'm right there with you.

deez nuts

03-19-2005, 09:09 AM

it's just that i am not a fan of older movies. anything older than the 90's, and some 80's films. i figure there are others out there who are the same way...

i'm not a fan of older movies either. i consider even most, if not all, of the 90's films to be old and i'm older than you.

Or you can consider that the average American movie goer sees few or no non-English or foreign films and considering moJo's background she's probably well versed in international films, including many non-English language films. There's only so much film each one of us can watch since we don't make a life out of it so I don't see why we either have to single out moJo or make the rash judgement that since she's not watching many older American films that she's limiting herself in absolute terms.

i agree. watching movies to me are just entertainment to past the time when there's nothing else better to do.

yoMAMA

03-19-2005, 11:54 AM

Indian girl, being saved by a white dude. Oh, yes... because we should all have our white knights.

is that the plot?

I was under the impression that the movie was about "girl power".

PropellerheadCP

03-19-2005, 01:35 PM

is that the plot?

I was under the impression that the movie was about "girl power".

It's the white guy who "believes" in the girl, while her family is against her playing soccer, because her "culture" is against women who don't behave a certain way. Oh, she's also in love with the white guy.

yoMAMA

03-19-2005, 01:37 PM

moJo

03-19-2005, 06:02 PM

Or you can consider that the average American movie goer sees few or no non-English or foreign films and considering moJo's background she's probably well versed in international films, including many non-English language films. There's only so much film each one of us can watch since we don't make a life out of it so I don't see why we either have to single out moJo or make the rash judgement that since she's not watching many older American films that she's limiting herself in absolute terms.
yeah, i do watch a lot of 'indie' films, both domestic and international. obviously i am limiting myself by not watching many older films. i can't watch every genre or type, realistically, and i ain't gonna try. sometimes i watch movies purely for entertainment value, and other times it is to get a glimpse of cultures and stuff. but because i want to. :)

Shuriken

03-19-2005, 06:45 PM

I OBJECT!

Below is a list of eight films and one TV show that I think are especially objectionable for their portrayal of Asian people. Other people may find things to like about these works, but their negative elements ought to be taken into account.

THE MASK OF FU MANCHU (1932): Featuring Boris Karloff as the title character, this film above all others seems to drive home the point that East Asian features are a deviation from the white "norm" and not to be trusted. This film might not be tolerable if it weren't for the campy pulp atmosphere that make the movie's racial politics hard to take seriously.

LITTLE TOKYO, U.S.A. (1942): The premise of this wartime propaganda movie is that the Japanese American community of Los Angeles is spying for Tokyo. The film ends extolling the necessity of the internment. Not available on video, to my knowledge, this movie is presently hard to come by — and for good reason.

SIXTEEN CANDLES (1984): Before I blow out the candles, I wish that Gedde Watanabe's dorky exchange-student character of Long Duk Dong, who serves as the textbook caricature of how undesirable Asian men supposedly are, didn't spoil this otherwise good movie.

YEAR OF THE DRAGON (1985): Tough white New York cop stops the Chinese mafia and gets the Asian gal to boot. Also, he is helped by a — yes — dorky Asian sidekick who gets gunned down so the white cop won't have to. A Chinese woman who earlier goes to the cop for help ends up working for the bad guys. Few other films set the races against each other in such an undisguised manner. But, hey, the white cop ends up with an Asian girlfriend, so that makes every thing okay, right?

SHOWDOWN IN LITTLE TOKYO (1991): Tough white Los Angeles cop stops the Japanese mafia and gets the Asian gal to boot. Only this Dolph Lundgren vehicle lacks Year of the Dragon's visual flair, so the mechanics of its "white vs. Asian" racial politics are as naked as Tia Carrere in the hot tub. Brandon Lee (Bruce's son) is given co-star billing, but his role never rises above that of the sidekick. Also, his hapa character is portrayed as so clueless about things Asian (unlike the all-knowing Lundgren) that he becomes a source more of embarrassment than pride. A virtual how-to guide for portraying white people as better than the one-down Asians. But, hey, the white cop ends up with an Asian girlfriend, so that makes every thing okay, right?

RISING SUN (1993): Here's my criticism in a nutshell: The movie portrays Asian people as getting ahead in the U.S. by murdering white Americans. All of the bad guys and murder suspects are either Japanese or in cahoots with the Japanese. Furthermore, the film is about two non-Asian detectives investigating the crime. You can read more of my thoughts about the movie on another thread (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=21754&page=1&pp=15). Bring No Doze.

MAD TV (TV, 1995- ): The episodes with Alex Borstein as the "ethnically unspecific" character of Ms. Swan (formerly Ms. Kwan) remain a disturbing reminder that network TV still regards laughing at an Asian character's race to be okay. The show's insincerity in dealing with objections to the character from the Asian American community is still infuriating.

BRIDGE OF DRAGONS (1999): Like Showdown in Little Tokyo, this is another Dolph Lundgren vs. Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa potboiler with Lundgren once again walking away with the Asian female love interest. Since this cable-TV actioner is set in a fictional country, it technically avoids the description "white vs. Asian." But because Tagawa's villain and the female love interest are the only Asian speaking roles in the entire film, the signal that white men must kill Asian men and rescue Asian women is loud and clear.

THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS (2001): Ignored in every review of this movie I've read is that all its Asian characters are either gangsters or their mute molls. Rick Yune plays the main bad guy whose actions we're supposed to hiss and whose death we're supposed to cheer. The fact that all the good guys are non-Asian doesn't seem to concern director Rob Cohen, who — disturbingly — helmed that commendable pro-Asian bio-pic Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story. Would a Hollywood movie ever portray black characters the in same way?

asvenus

03-20-2005, 04:24 AM

It's the white guy who "believes" in the girl, while her family is against her playing soccer, because her "culture" is against women who don't behave a certain way. Oh, she's also in love with the white guy.
yeah i didnt go to see it cos i couldnt stomach the thought of yet another portrayal like this..
as for east is east..i couldnt really relate to it, neither could my mother or my asian family..
it just seemed to be reiterating all the negative and stereotypical views on Islam and Pakistani culture, while hailing the white culture as progressive and female friendly..the guy who made it and many of the actors in it are half white/asian so maybe it reflected their upbringing..

yoMAMA

03-20-2005, 11:38 AM

deez nuts

03-20-2005, 12:14 PM

is that the plot?

I was under the impression that the movie was about "girl power".

the plot was unbelievable in itself. good looking model'ish white guy picks average looking indian chick over keira knightly - she was the only reason why i even watched this movie.

nola

03-20-2005, 12:21 PM

It was girl power with some lesbian subtext.

yoMAMA

03-20-2005, 12:23 PM

deez nuts

03-20-2005, 12:45 PM

she needs bigger boobs (http://dan.olsen-twins.org/gallery/albums/KeiraKnightly/POTC_premiere7.jpg)

:wink:

yeah. but, that's easily fixable compared to the indian chick in that movie who needs a skin bleaching cuz she's as dark as midnight.

Irezumi Kiss

03-20-2005, 12:55 PM

the plot was unbelievable in itself. good looking model'ish white guy picks average looking indian chick over keira knightly - she was the only reason why i even watched this movie.
Keira's hot to be sure, but Parminder was looking verrrry good in that dress at that party and she's got better curves. I didn't think that White guy was all that, though. She did HIM a favor if anything. Must be a British thing (apologies to Asvenus)...

kimpossible

03-20-2005, 01:35 PM

she needs bigger boobs (http://dan.olsen-twins.org/gallery/albums/KeiraKnightly/POTC_premiere7.jpg)

:wink:

She was like 17 when she made that movie. At least let her body fully mature before we inflate the funbags.

She did HIM a favor if anything. Must be a British thing (apologies to Asvenus)...

It's worse than that. His character is Irish.

deez nuts

03-20-2005, 03:38 PM

Keira's hot to be sure, but Parminder was looking verrrry good in that dress at that party and she's got better curves. I didn't think that White guy was all that, though. She did HIM a favor if anything. Must be a British thing (apologies to Asvenus)...

she's too dark. i no likey.

YuheiCarreau

03-20-2005, 09:54 PM

It's worse than that. His character is Irish.

I loved the scene where a White soccer player shouted a slur at the main character, and she went ballistic. Her coach chastises her, so she gets pissed because he doesn't understand what it's like - so he goes "of course I understand... I'm Irish" - which is neither an acceptable comparison, nor is it really a gesture of understanding (as someone who understood would've punched the girl out himself).

yoMAMA

03-20-2005, 10:12 PM

she's too dark. i no likey.

I think she's on ER.

the asian representation!

:wink:

deez nuts

03-21-2005, 05:41 AM

as a kid, me and my dad would watch hollywood american versus japanese world war two movies. one movie called midway stuck in my mind cuz it was the first american hollywood movie i ever saw when i was growing up in taiwan and me and my friends would re-enact the movie with our minature die cast american P51 mustangs and japanese zeros fighter planes and we would split up into the american and japanese. we would spend like an hour arguing cuz everybody wanted to be the united states so we had to rock paper scissor it and the losers would play the japanese. if i lost and ended up on the japanese side, i would throw a fit, rush home and make my dad be the japanese.

when i got older and living in the united states, i was fascinated with vietnam war movies like full metal jacket, platoon, hamburger hill, the missing in action trilogy, rambo part two, the movie ( i think casualties of war) with sean penn and michael j fox about how a military squad kidnapped a vietnamese village girl and gang raped her.

the most recent war movie i saw involving asians was jerry bruckheimer's pearl harbor. it wasn't that great of a movie. it was more a love story than a war movie. it was more cavorting than carnage though the pearl harbor attack sequence was pretty well done.

Shuriken

03-21-2005, 04:39 PM

ON THE EDGE

Below is a list of ten films and one TV show that could be regarded as either positive or negative, depending on which aspect you choose to emphasize. At any rate, you should know of them.

http://image.pathfinder.com/time/asia/photoessays/jv_film042601/2.jpg

THE CHEAT (1915)

In his breakthrough performance, Sessue Hayakawa co-stars as a Japanese lender who brands a white American woman unable to repay her debt. Although his role is rather villainous and his character nearly gets lynched, Hayakawa's magnetic appearance in this early Cecil B. DeMille film later allowed the Japanese-born actor to produce his own Hollywood starring vehicles, which enabled him to portray a wide range of more positive roles. Not a particularly sympathetic view of an Asian person, the movie had agreeable consequences.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/images/2004/1204_piccadilly_thursday.jpg

PICCADILLY (1929)

On the surface, this British film is rather problematic — from a love affair deemed wrong because it is interracial to the emasculating portrayal of its most prominent Asian male character. But Anna May Wong's dazzling central performance as a "Chinese" nightclub dancer steals the movie from its purported stars (Gilda Gray and Jameson Thomas) and seems to cast its archaic racial politics in doubt.

http://www.tele-vicio.com/70/pics/1/43.jpg

KUNG FU (TV, 1972-75)

Still regarded with contempt in some circles for not casting its Asian lead role with an Asian actor — David Carradine got the part — this single issue shouldn't eclipse how good the series is. According to Warner Brothers, Bruce Lee did not develop the show, and Asian American actors (including Lee) were at least considered for the lead before the casting agents moved onto auditioning Caucasians. Along with Lee's movies, this TV series fueled the kung-fu craze of its time and did more than any previous work to foster an awareness of Asian American history. After more than 30 years — with the possible exception of its now-surpassed fighting scenes — the show still holds up.

http://www.leonardschrader.com/images/photos/mishima/mishima06.jpg

MISHIMA: A LIFE IN FOUR CHAPTERS (1985)

I need to put in a good word for this fascinating bio-pic about Yukio Mishima (1925-1970), arguably Japan's best-known and most important writer of the 20th century. Co-produced by a Hollywood studio (Warner Brothers) and written and directed by Americans (including helmsman Paul Schrader), it was nevertheless shot in the Japanese language with a Japanese cast (headed by Ken Ogata). Although the movie remains an artistically brilliant coming-together of East and West, there's not much in particular for any Asian American viewer to latch onto that would be different from the typical Asian art film.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/annamay.wong/scansw/wong/wonga09.jpg

SLAYING THE DRAGON (1987)

Deborah Gee's hour-long documentary about Asian portrayals in Hollywood provides a much-needed historical overview of how stereotypes have persisted since the silent days. On the one hand, the viewer is thrilled that these troubling images can be re-shaped to illustrate an Asian American perspective. On the other hand, one is dismayed by the stubborn durability of these streotypes.

http://www.ezydvd.com.au/g/i/p/222663.jpg

THE JOY LUCK CLUB (1993) and DOUBLE HAPPINESS (1994)

The first title is a major Hollywood production, arguably the first of the sound era to deserve the mantle "Asian American Hollywood movie." The second is a small Canadian film with an acculturated main character of Chinese descent, played by Korean Canadian actress Sandra Oh. While both films have been praised in some quarters for their unfamiliar focus on Asian North American female protagonists, they have been equally criticized in others for their problematic views of Asian men. Critics charge that these are still "white knight" fantasies, only they move the Asian ingènue to the center of the story; they make the "defeat" of the Asian male antagonist and romantic union with a white man seem like a necessary step in Asian American female empowerment and thus "progressive." By liberating herself from Asian patriarchy, critics say, the Asian North American female protagonist is merely used as an instrument of white patriarchy. The arguments are well taken, but they don't completely obliterate the freshness and fascination of seeing such uncommon perspectives brought to life on the screen. Besides, in The Joy Luck Club, Lauren Tom's character ends up with Philip Moon.

http://www.ugtv.org/pic/asianpride.jpg

ASIAN PRIDE PORN (2000)

Greg Pak's five-minute-long satire, mostly viewed on the Internet and hosted by playwright David Henry Hwang, asks a rather profound question: Is starring in a pornographic film the best way to acknowledge the well-roundedness (so to speak) of the Asian American experience? It certainly offers an uncommon — if briefly glimpsed — view of Asian virility.

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/11.02.00/gifs/charliesangels-0044.jpg

CHARLIE'S ANGELS (2000)

Yes, it's silly and without substance. But Lucy Liu's co-starring role as one of the three title heroines — an equal, not a sidekick — foretells a time when Asian Americans are duly recognized as an integral part of U.S. society.

http://www.asianamericanfilm.com/pix/charlottesometimes275x169.jpeg

CHARLOTTE SOMETIMES (2002)

A lot of critics have blasted Eric Byler's independent film because the "white-looking" hapa man has all the sex, while the full-blooded Asian American man has none and is very insecure. But it's the full-Asian guy who is the film's lead character, and the story is about his growing confidence. With visuals seemingly shot at an arm's distance, this is a beautifully made movie.

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/movies/graphics/pix/07-29-04-review.jpg

HAROLD AND KUMAR GO TO WHITE CASTLE (2004)

You'd be surprised how two Asian American lead characters can transform an otherwise unexceptional, sophomoric stoner comedy and give it an extra dimension.

Shuriken

03-22-2005, 04:03 PM

I OBJECT!

When discussing Asian stereotypes with friends, two titles that frequently come up are the Hollywood movie BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S (1962) and the Internet flash animation MR. WONG, recently made available on DVD.

Why did they not appear on my list? Because, in all honesty, I have not watched them in their entirety. I've seen film clips of Mickey Rooney's egregious yellowface character in Breakfast, and I nearly lost mine. As horrible as it is, at least Boris Karloff's yellowface in The Mask of Fu Manchu takes place in a make-believe world that gives his performance an air of parody. By contrast, Rooney's over-the-top performance seems to take place in an otherwise realistic setting and stands out like a sore thumb, making its racism all the more obvious.

As for Mr. Wong, I don't like what little I've seen of it so far, and I'm loathe to look more deeply into the DVD because I know it will only make me angry, a feeling that I don't want to rouse at the moment. For this same reason, I have not watched all of Breakfast at Tiffany's. Thus, their absence from my list.

By the way, the follow-up series to Kung Fu — Kung Fu: The Legend Continues (1992-98) — also starring David Carradine, was absolutely dreadful and unworthy of its predecessor.

yoMAMA

03-22-2005, 10:10 PM

By the way, the follow-up series to Kung Fu — Kung Fu: The Legend Continues (1992-98) — also starring David Carradine, was absolutely dreadful and unworthy of its predecessor.

I used to love that show, but that was before I knew of all the racism in american cinema history.

kangisman

03-23-2005, 03:19 PM

"Chan Is Missing" is our "She's Gotta Have It" for sure, but I still think everyone should see his really hard to find second film "Life Is Cheap... (But Toilet Paper Is Expensive)." It really changed my view about Wayne and his whole body of work. He is a maverick.

Chan Is Missing (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083728/)
by Wayne Wang, released in 1982.

by the way, if anybody knows where i can get a copy on tape, DVD, or VCD, please let me know! the only time i was able to watch this was back in school because they had it stocked in their library for film classes.

EDIT: ChottoMatte - good taste! even though you haven't watched it. :tongue:

here's a review of Chan Is Missing:
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/panasia/chan_is_missing.htm

I can list a bunch that are hard to find that if you really want to understand the current state of Asian American film you should check out:

Strawberry Fields by Rea Tajiri
Too Tired To Die by Wonsook Chin
Disoriented by Francisco Aliwalas
100 Percent by Eric Koyonagi
Shopping For Fangs by Quentin Lee and Justin Lin
Yellow by Chris Chan Lee
The Debut by Gene Cayajon
Robot Stories by Greg Pak
Charlotte Sometimes by Eric Byler

And what you should be on the lookout for in theaters and on the festival circuit (where often the films above never made it past):

Face by Bertha Pan
Saving Face by Alice Wu
Cavite by Ian Gamazon and Neill dela Llana
Red Doors by Georgia Lee
Puzzlehead by James Bai
212 by Anthony Ng
I Was Born But... by Roddy Bogawa

and of course... The Motel by Michael Kang (http://www.themotel-film.com)

I am sure I missed some, but these are off the top of my head. (I purposely didn't bother to throw BLT or H&K on the list because I am pretty sure everyone knows about those films).

Shuriken

03-26-2005, 09:00 PM

Before this thread fades into oblivion :biggrin: , I'd like to repeat my über-list:

THE CHEAT (1915), starring Sessue Hayakawa

THE TONG MAN (1919), starring Sessue Hayakawa

THE TOLL OF THE SEA (1922), starring Anna May Wong

PICCADILLY (1929), starring Anna May Wong

DAUGHTER OF SHANGHAI (1938), starring Anna May Wong

PHANTOM OF CHINATOWN (1940), starring Keye Luke

GO FOR BROKE! (1951), featuring real-life members of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team

THE GALLERY OF MADAME LIU-TSONG (TV, 1951), starring Anna May Wong (not available for viewing)

THE CRIMSON KIMONO (1959), starring James Shigeta

HIROSHIMA MON AMOUR (1959), starring Eiji Okada*

FLOWER DRUM SONG (1961), with a nearly all-Asian cast

KUNG FU (TV, 1972-75), with many Asian American guest stars

ENTER THE DRAGON (1973), starring Bruce Lee

FAREWELL TO MANZANAR (TV, 1976), starring Nobu McCarthy and Yuki Shimoda

CHAN IS MISSING (1981), directed by Wayne Wang

GANDHI (1982), starring Ben Kingsley (né Krishna Bhanji)

DIM SUM: A LITTLE BIT OF HEART (1985), directed by Wayne Wang*

MISHIMA: A LIFE IN FOUR CHAPTERS (1985), starring Ken Ogata

SLAYING THE DRAGON (1987), documentary directed by Deborah Gee*

WHO KILLED VINCENT CHIN?(1987), documentary directed by Christine Choy and Renee Tajima

THE BUDDHA OF SUBURBIA (TV, 1993), starring Naveen Andrews*

THE WEDDING BANQUET (1993), starring Winston Chao*

THE JOY LUCK CLUB (1993), directed by Wayne Wang

HEAVEN & EARTH (1993), starring Hiep Thi Le

DOUBLE HAPPINESS (1994), starring Sandra Oh

MAYA LIN: A STRONG, CLEAR VISION (1994), documentary directed by Freida Lee Mock

YELLOW (1996), directed by Chris Chan Lee*

SHOPPING FOR FANGS (1997), directed by Quentin Lee and Justin Lin

MULAN (1998), voiced by Ming-Na

JOHNNY TSUNAMI (1999), starring Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa

ASIAN PRIDE PORN (2000), directed by Greg Pak

CHARLIE'S ANGELS (2000), starring Lucy Liu

CHARLOTTE SOMETIMES (2002), directed by Eric Byler*

HAROLD AND KUMAR GO TO WHITE CASTLE (2004), starring John Cho and Kal Penn

*especially recommended

Faithless

03-27-2005, 12:47 AM

I liked Robot Stories but to be honest, I'm not sure if it's a 'must-see' movie for APIA awareness. I mean, it's great to see Asian men in sexualized roles, and the discussion of Asian identity in relation to cybernetic technology is really great, but ...

I dunno... I just didn't think it's a 'must see' movie for every Asian American. At least not initially. Maybe it's cuz i think every APIA should have a good grasp of our history before we start with the contemporary identity pieces.
Well, for the fact that it shows Asians at different aspects -- young and old, male and female; sexual, emotional, assertive, controlled; with (though slight) and without accents -- in lead roles, in the modern context, I think it makes it a must see.

.
...
GO FOR BROKE! (1951)

This combat movie about the Japanese American 442nd Regimental Combat Team is told — of course — from the perspective of its white commanding officer, played by Van Johnson. Nevertheless, it's good to see some acknowledgment of the 442nd's heroism so soon after the internment. Members of the 442nd playing themselves include Lane Nakano, George Miki, and Akira Fukunaga. ...
And good to see the acknowledgement that, goddamn it!, we were willing to sacrifice for this fucking country as Americans!

Shuriken

04-11-2005, 01:50 PM

I still think that this thread ought to be a sticky.

Grasshopper

04-12-2005, 12:32 AM

... one movie called midway stuck in my mind cuz it was the first american hollywood movie i ever saw when i was growing up in taiwan and me and my friends would re-enact the movie with our minature die cast american P51 mustangs and japanese zeros fighter planes ..

I'm pretty sure there were no P-51 Mustangs used at Midway. The P- 51s were mostly used in the European war.

The best fighter the US had in the Pacific was the P-38 Lightning with the cannons in the nose. That plane was a crusher!!

Problem is they didn't supply enough of them and in the early part of the Pacific war the US pilots were forced to use inferior planes. The best stuff went to fight the Nazis.

http://www.lsfm.org/images/P-38.gif

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/p38-9.jpg

when i got older and living in the united states, i was fascinated with vietnam war movies like full metal jacket, platoon, hamburger hill, the missing in action trilogy, rambo part two, the movie ( i think casualties of war)

Have you seen Apocalypse Now and The Deer Hunter?

They are by far the best Vietnam era films although they are not the most realistic in a way. They are both incredible works of movie making. Insane really.

BeTheReds

04-12-2005, 02:47 AM

Shuriken

04-12-2005, 01:46 PM

Add Hook to the list.

http://www.myconaut.com:8080/jk/harems/rlharem/RufioSmall.jpg

Dante Basco as Rufio is quite possibly one of the best Asian roles ever, provided you don't look too much into his dying words and the lack of sadness from anyone over his death.

His dying words were "I wish I had a father, just like you." to Peter Pan.

People might construe this to think that he wants to be White, but if you consider that the role wasn't written with Rufio's ethnicity in mind.

Although I haven't seen Hook in its entirety — just various scenes on TV — I would respectfully disagree with adding it to a list of "must see's." From what I've seen, Rufio starts out the film as an antagonist to the white lead and eventually graduates to the doomed sidekick — not much progress there.

And while you might view Rufio's portrayal as Asian as a kind of "colorblind" casting, I have to wonder: Would the filmmakers have considered casting as Asian in the role in the first place if Rufio didn't have this particular character arc and if his last line hadn't been so self-degrading?

I wonder the same thing when thinking about the Hawaiian-born Yvonne Elliman as Mary Magdalene in the "colorblind" film and record versions of Jesus Christ Superstar: If the character hadn't been a prostitute (an Asian stereotype), would it have occurred to the filmmakers to cast an Asian in the role to begin with?

BeTheReds

04-13-2005, 05:06 PM

Although I haven't seen Hook in its entirety — just various scenes on TV — I would respectfully disagree with adding it to a list of "must see's." From what I've seen, Rufio starts out the film as an antagonist to the white lead and eventually graduates to the doomed sidekick — not much progress there.

Well I can see why you'd think that, but when I was a teenager watching that movie, I thought Rufio was the shit.

He's the lostboy that all the lostboys look up to, he's better than pan at everything (until pan remembers that he's pan) and everyone, even Capn Hook respects him.

I don't see him as a sidekick anywhere, as there isn't much dialogue between Rufio and Pan after Pan reclaims the sword. They fight together to try to rescue pans kids, but hook kills rufio by playing dirty.

And while you might view Rufio's portrayal as Asian as a kind of "colorblind" casting, I have to wonder: Would the filmmakers have considered casting as Asian in the role in the first place if Rufio didn't have this particular character arc and if his last line hadn't been so self-degrading?

We'll never know. All I know is that the person who wrote the role didn't intend from the beginning that Rufio be an Asian guy. Thus the last line means that Rufio wishes he had a dad who loves him, just as peter pan loves his kids. I disagree on the character arc, I didn't ever see him reduced to a sidekick.

I wonder the same thing when thinking about the Hawaiian-born Yvonne Elliman as Mary Magdalene in the "colorblind" film and record versions of Jesus Christ Superstar: If the character hadn't been a prostitute (an Asian stereotype), would it have occurred to the filmmakers to cast an Asian in the role to begin with?

That movie! ha! Why is Judas the only black guy? That's pretty messed up!

Shuriken

04-15-2005, 02:22 PM

He's the Lost Boy that all the Lost Boys look up to, he's better than Pan at everything (until Pan remembers that he's Pan) and everyone, even Cap'n Hook respects him.

I don't see him as a sidekick anywhere, as there isn't much dialogue between Rufio and Pan after Pan reclaims the sword. They fight together to try to rescue Pan's kids, but Hook kills Rufio by playing dirty.

I'm trying to articulate my thoughts in a way that doesn't sound like I'm dismissing everything that you say.

It seems to me that the subject under discussion is films or portrayals that we think Asian Americans absolutely must make an effort to see. To me, portrayals in the Occidental media that depict Asians in prominent and/or positive roles would take priority.

Granted, as I said, I haven't seen Hook all the way through, so I may not have gotten the full effect of what you're talking about. But it sounds to me like you're describing a marginal Asian role which — while it may have some agreeable aspects — isn't really all that positive or all that prominent. The way you describe him, Rufio begins the movie as an antagonist to the white lead (nothing new) and, in a time-honored tradition, "proves" how good he is by — if not exactly sacrificing his life so that the white hero can live (à la Gunga Din) — dying on the white hero's behalf. I would like to think that a recommendation for an Asian portrayal in an Occidental film would set a higher bar in terms of breaking down stereotypes.

This is especially frustrating for me when I see something like the website GoldSea.com making a list of "Asian-Friendly Movies" which overlooks such wonderful, Asian-affirmative films as Farewell to Manzanar and Dim Sum in order to recommend such problematic titles as Black Rain and Rising Sun simply on the grounds that their Asian bad guys (to non-Asian heroes) come off as non-wimpy. I think that this site does a disservice to its readers while signalling to Hollywood that "yellow peril" stereotypes are acceptable to the community.

At the same time, I don't want to disregard completely the positive feelings that these marginal, otherwise negative Asian portrayals evoke in Asian American viewers. I wouldn't mind tipping my hat to the agreeable aspects of these characters — however between-the-lines those aspects might be — if we could also make it clear to Hollywood that its portrayals of Asian characters still have a long way to go.

ahsingjai

04-24-2005, 01:26 AM

OMG. You guys forgot:

Better luck tomorrow
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0280477/

hooligan

04-24-2005, 01:31 AM

Shit, another nod from me to Charlotte Sometimes. It was a great movie.

Shuriken

04-30-2005, 02:47 PM

Not long ago, I read a poll of "the top ten Asian Americans who influenced U.S. pop culture" that I disagreed with. It struck me that some very important names had been left off. So, I decided to make a list of my own — one that would be as objective as possible, and one that would try to avoid what I thought were the original poll's biases.

So, I set to work on it, and I came up with this roll-call:

10. Anna May Wong (first U.S.-born Asian movie star)

9. Iva Toguri / Tokyo Rose (for better or worse, the best-known Asian American media figure of her time and an enduring one in the American psyche)

8. Kristi Yamaguchi (not the first Asian American to win an Olympic gold medal, but a high-profile one who blazed a path for other Asian American athletes)

7. Disney's Mulan (finally, an Asian face — with an American voice — was added to Disney's influential cartoon-character pantheon)

6. George Takei on Star Trek (an enduring and prominent Asian American figure in a context — the TV adventure series — where few have gone before)

5. Maya Lin (her Vietnam Veteran's Memorial is now a Washington mainstay and a reminder that not all Asians were "the enemy")

4. Maxine Hong Kingston's The Woman Warrior (last I heard, still the most widely read book by a living American author on college campuses)

3. Yoko Ono (the New York-based Japanese artist probably has more influence on American popular music than more talented musicians)

2. Connie Chung (where would the now-ubiquitous Asian American TV newscaster be without her?)

1. Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon (if his martial artistry hadn't kicked through Hollywood's glass ceiling, would there be any lead roles for Asians at all?)

But looking over my list, I decided that it probably said more about the tastes of U.S. pop culture's non-Asian gatekeepers than it did about the community itself. After all, there were only two men on the list of ten. And I wasn't sure how useful such a Top Ten would be. Does the list reflect names that ought to be lauded, or are they reminders of how far the community needs to go? I decided that my Top Ten contained more of the latter than the former, so I decided not to make the posting I had originally envisioned.

At any rate, recent polls of important Asian Americans in pop culture have not duely recognized Maxine Hong Kingston or Maya Lin. I hope that this omission will soon be corrected.

(By the way, Disney's Mulan was directly inspired by Kingston's book. The Chinese historical figure that Kingston writes about is known as Hua Mulan in Mandarin and Fa Muk-Lan in Cantonese. It was Kingston who put the two names together and came up with Fa Mulan.)

nameless

05-05-2005, 03:47 PM

(sorry for the long post, but i read this review and thought i'd share it.)

source: kfccinema, asahi...

A Most Unlikely Hero (http://www.unlikelyhero.org/)

Bruce Yamashita has never regretted the racial discrimination he suffered at the hands of the U.S. Marine Corps or the long legal process that culminated in a landmark legal victory. He says the lessons he learned served to enrich his life as a human being and as a lawyer. Yamashita's problems began in 1989. A graduate of Georgetown University's law school, he joined the U.S. Marines and was sent to boot camp at Officer Candidate School (OCS) at Quantico, Virginia.

The Japanese-American's hopes of serving his country were soon dashed. At 33-years-old, he was much older than the other candidates. The Hawaiian native was almost immediately singled out for abuse by his drill instructors. Verbal abuse by Marine Corps drill instructors is normal. Racial abuse is another matter. A staff sergeant told Yamashita that the U.S. Marine Corps didn't want his kind around and told him to go back to his own country.

Yamashita was shocked. Sheltered in multicultural Hawaii, he says he had little sense of a racial identity, much less virulent discrimination.

Just before he was due to graduate, Yamashita was disenrolled from OCS. He returned to his home in Hawaii. Instead of simply giving up, Yamashita sued the Marines for discrimination in 1991. After a protracted legal battle, he won his case and was commissioned a captain in the Marines in 1994.

Now, 49, and a lawyer in Washington, D.C., Yamashita was in Japan at the invitation of the Japanese government last month. Accompanying him was friend and filmmaker Steve Okino. Okino's 2003 documentary A Most Unlikely Hero has been shown in Japan, at the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo, a community hall in Iwakuni, Yamaguchi Prefecture, a high school in Tsukuba, Ibaraki Prefecture, and elsewhere. Yamashita's relatives are from the Iwakuni area. Yamashita and Okino were invited to Japan by the Foreign Ministry as part of a program that highlights the lives of Nikkeijin, or people of Japanese descent.

Yamashita's parents objected to his choice of service. He says they saw the Marine Corps as a bunch of rednecks with guns. The youngest of four children, Yamashita says he defended the Marines and accused his family of stereotyping. The only Asian-American in his nine-week OCS class, Yamashita was subjected to a barrage of racial slurs. Instead of his name, he was often referred to as Kamikaze Man, Kawasaki or Yamaha. However, at the time he took the name-calling in stride. I didn't think that the jokes were harassment. I thought that these remarks were harmless and they were just part of the training, he says. I didn't think there was anything particularly insidious about it.

The next day, the roof fell in. His drill sergeant yanked him out of ranks and ordered him into a filthy uniform. As he stood before the board in his dirty uniform, he was ridiculed for flunking his first crack at the bar exam before enrolling in OCS. Officially, he was kicked out of OCS for alleged deficient leadership skills. Of course, many lawyers fail their first shot at the bar, but the board's mind was already made up. (Yamashita later passed the exam.)

I was a blind man in a world of color, Yamashita confesses in the film. I realized I had missed the boat and I was ignorant. In the mid-'80s, Washington D.C. was black and white. Far more Asians lived on the West than the East coast. Yamashita knew life in Washington would be unlike anything he had experienced. I knew subconsciously it would be a different experience, he says. It was, but I suffered more.

Yamashita sued the U.S. Marine Corps in 1991 for racial discrimination at OCS, as well as for a pattern of discrimination against all minority candidates. Later, the Pentagon issued an official response stating that the drill sergeant who continually confused Yamashita's name with Japanese products had reading problems. It said that the sergeant that spoke in pidgin Japanese was only trying to put Yamashita at ease.

The Marine Corps didn't help its public relations case when the then-Commandant of the Marine Corps stated on a U.S. investigative news program that minorities didn't shoot as well as non-minorities; swim as well; or perform land navigation compass exercises as well.

One Marine said that he couldn't believe Yamashita's accusation of prejudice because many military men are married to Asian women.

Yamashita didn't fight his battle alone. His defense team included members of the Japanese American Citizens League. When the dust had finally settled, the Marine Corps was required by Congress to publish and enforce regulations that prohibit racial discrimination.

Okino and Yamashita toured the United States in 2003 to promote the film and Yamashita's book Fighting Tradition: A Marine's Journey to Justice published the same year. The debate over security versus human rights and civil liberties makes this story more important and timely than ever, the director said on his visit to Tokyo. There is a need for people to stand up for justice and for rights.

Now practicing law,Yamashita deals with immigration issues and represents indigent clients in criminal cases. He helps Japanese clients in their native tongue.

It was a journey to justice, he says. I became much more aware and appreciative of my Japanese-American experience and sacrifices of my grandparents and parents, World War II and the internment.

The criminal defense lawyer often lectures to students at the law center at Georgetown University on appreciating and respecting their roots. We didn't get here by ourselves. Particularly Asian Americans, many of whom are in law schools or medical schools or working at Smith Barney and making lots of money, he says. Typically in the Asian-American experience, somebody worked on the sugar plantations, in sweat shops, laundromats or small little restaurants. So don't forget that. They have an obligation to give something back.

Banana

05-06-2005, 08:10 AM

One Marine said that he couldn't believe Yamashita's accusation of prejudice because many military men are married to Asian women.

Heh. It's to be assumed that nothing happened to the people in question, correct?

BeTheReds

05-19-2005, 11:24 PM

I'm trying to articulate my thoughts in a way that doesn't sound like I'm dismissing everything that you say.

It seems to me that the subject under discussion is films or portrayals that we think Asian Americans absolutely must make an effort to see. To me, portrayals in the Occidental media that depict Asians in prominent and/or positive roles would take priority.

Granted, as I said, I haven't seen Hook all the way through, so I may not have gotten the full effect of what you're talking about. But it sounds to me like you're describing a marginal Asian role which — while it may have some agreeable aspects — isn't really all that positive or all that prominent. The way you describe him, Rufio begins the movie as an antagonist to the white lead (nothing new) and, in a time-honored tradition, "proves" how good he is by — if not exactly sacrificing his life so that the white hero can live (à la Gunga Din) — dying on the white hero's behalf. I would like to think that a recommendation for an Asian portrayal in an Occidental film would set a higher bar in terms of breaking down stereotypes.

This is especially frustrating for me when I see something like the website GoldSea.com making a list of "Asian-Friendly Movies" which overlooks such wonderful, Asian-affirmative films as Farewell to Manzanar and Dim Sum in order to recommend such problematic titles as Black Rain and Rising Sun simply on the grounds that their Asian bad guys (to non-Asian heroes) come off as non-wimpy. I think that this site does a disservice to its readers while signalling to Hollywood that "yellow peril" stereotypes are acceptable to the community.

At the same time, I don't want to disregard completely the positive feelings that these marginal, otherwise negative Asian portrayals evoke in Asian American viewers. I wouldn't mind tipping my hat to the agreeable aspects of these characters — however between-the-lines those aspects might be — if we could also make it clear to Hollywood that its portrayals of Asian characters still have a long way to go.

So basically because Rufio isn't the lead then?

Shuriken

05-22-2005, 12:30 PM

So basically because Rufio isn't the lead then?

I must not be doing a very good job of making myself understood. Basically, Rufio goes from being an Asian antagonist to a Gunga Din figure. Even if he had been the lead, I would still have qualms about such a portrayal.

lifeinmono

06-01-2005, 12:51 AM

Shuriken

06-04-2005, 12:10 PM

Personal Picks...

Xiaoshuai Wang's Beijing Bicycle

Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai

Pen-Ek Ratanaruang's Last Life in The Universe

Alain Resnais' Hiroshima Mon Amour

Wong Kar Wai's Chungking Express and In The Mood For Love

Ki-duk Kim's Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring and Bin-Jip (3-Iron)

and finally, the greatest "chick flick" ever made :P Hyun-seung Lee's Il Mare

-Matt

Well, these are all interesting films from Asian countries, and thanks for passing them along. :smile:

But what specifically would they communicate to Asian American viewers beyond seeing people with Asian faces — people from Asian-majority populations removed from the minoritarian concerns of Asian Americans — in the lead roles?

BeTheReds

06-19-2005, 07:00 PM

I must not be doing a very good job of making myself understood. Basically, Rufio goes from being an Asian antagonist to a Gunga Din figure.

I dunno, I've never seen him as an antagonist. I saw him as a cocky preteen who didn't want to lose his fire to an overweight middle aged man, whoever he used to be.

While I agree that his death was done incorrectly, I still have to take into account that the role wasn't written specifically for an Asian male. Therefore the "Gunga Din" similarity is coincedental.

Even if he had been the lead, I would still have qualms about such a portrayal.

So if he had been Peter Pan (the lead), you'd have problems with it? Why?

Shuriken

06-23-2005, 01:43 PM

While I agree that his death was done incorrectly, I still have to take into account that the role wasn't written specifically for an Asian male. Therefore the "Gunga Din" similarity is coincedental.

My point is: If the character hadn't have died at the end, would the casting people have thought of casting an Asian actor in the first place? Okay, hypothetical question.

So if he had been Peter Pan (the lead), you'd have problems with it? Why?

You're being sarcastic, right? Maybe I deserve it. Maybe I take the issue of Asian representation in American media a bit too seriously, and I need to be taken down a few pegs. I dunno.

But what I meant to say was: Even if Ruffio had been the main character, I still would have had qualms with a such an Asian portrayal. I wasn't referring to Dante Basco playing Peter Pan.

xzotyqarz

06-29-2005, 10:38 PM

I'm pretty sure there were no P-51 Mustangs used at Midway. The P- 51s were mostly used in the European war.

The best fighter the US had in the Pacific was the P-38 Lightning with the cannons in the nose. That plane was a crusher!!

Problem is they didn't supply enough of them and in the early part of the Pacific war the US pilots were forced to use inferior planes. The best stuff went to fight the Nazis.

P-51's were fighting the Zero's only when the US were at war with Japan; so they did clash, but only AFTER Midway/Pearl Harbour, which was what brought US into the war in the first place with Japan.

Flying Tigers... with newer planes (old fighters being replaced)
http://www.oldgloryprints.com/Tiger%20Sharks%20of%20China.htm

http://www.acepilots.com/cbi/hill.html

haplesshobo

07-03-2005, 12:12 AM

the first karate kid is one of the most important films that promoted asian american causes. its done more than than a lot of other things we've tried.

hooligan

07-03-2005, 12:25 AM

Please, can we get a sticky?

ism

07-03-2005, 01:00 AM

the first karate kid is one of the most important films that promoted asian american causes. its done more than than a lot of other things we've tried.I disagree. Karate Kid IV is clearly more important. Whereas the previous three installments rely on the homoerotic dynamic between Morita and Macchio's characters, The Next Karate Kid turns that tired cliche upside-down. What better to advance Asian Americans than to introduce an Asian American as the mystical mentor to a young female? It's obvious how great this movie is due to how dismal its box office returns were. And it even stars an Oscar Award-winning actress. It can't be denied.

The best part is that it not only advances Asian American issues, but Women's issues as well.

haplesshobo

07-03-2005, 01:06 AM

out of respect to kim, i won't go into detail why karate kid was so important to asian american causes. its obvious you don't get it, and are reinforcing the white patriarchy by your lack of respect for such an important movie to the asian american movement.

while you're at it, do you also want to mock maxine hong kingston as well?

DragonKnight

07-03-2005, 01:08 AM

DestinyAwaiting

07-08-2005, 10:12 AM

Everyone should like totally watch the Twins Effect. I love that movie! It's so great, About a good vampire prince and all. And he's like so hot.

Miso

07-20-2005, 09:02 PM

gau dog

08-29-2005, 03:10 AM

For me, An Autumn's Tale (http://nbi.com/hk/cyf/reviews/rev18.html) is the only movie worth mentioning. Chow Yun Fat. Cherie Chung. Romance. New York. 1987. Simply unrivaled.

LaiSteve66

09-06-2005, 05:20 PM

THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS (2001): Ignored in every review of this movie I've read is that all its Asian characters are either gangsters or their mute molls. Rick Yune plays the main bad guy whose actions we're supposed to hiss and whose death we're supposed to cheer. The fact that all the good guys are non-Asian doesn't seem to concern director Rob Cohen, who — disturbingly — helmed that commendable pro-Asian bio-pic Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story. Would a Hollywood movie ever portray black characters the in same way?

They could of at least got a Vietnamese guy to play "Johnny Tran" (No disrespect to Yune)

Shuriken

09-14-2005, 01:09 PM

They could of at least got a Vietnamese guy to play "Johnny Tran" (No disrespect to Yune)

Since the role of Johnny Tran didn’t require Rick Yune to speak any Vietnamese, why should it matter whether the role was played by a Vietnamese American, a Korean American, or an Asian American actor of any other ethnicity?

deez nuts

09-14-2005, 01:21 PM

Since the role of Johnny Tran didn’t require Rick Yune to speak any Vietnamese, why should it matter whether the role was played by a Vietnamese American, a Korean American, or an Asian American actor of any other ethnicity?

there you go again.

see if you're asian, one asian ethnicity playing another asian ethnicity may actually bother some asians.

it doesn't bother me that a korean dude is playing a vietnamese dude in a movie. but, it may bother say mister laisteve66 over there. let me tell you what does bother me is that it's almost like you're trying to force us to comform to your notion that there isn't anything wrong with it when clearly there's pros and cons to both sides and no right or wrong answer.

Shuriken

09-14-2005, 01:33 PM

Here are some movies that every Asian American should see.

1. In the Mood for Love
2. To Live
3. The Road Home
4. Beijing Bicycle
5. Together
6. The Twilight Samurai
7. Chung King Express
8. Smoke
9. Eat, Drink, Man, Woman
10 Green Tea

Except for Smoke, all of these movies are about Asian people in Asia? What particular relevance would they have to Asian Americans?

Simply seeing Asian people at the center of the story in Asian films has been an opiate among Asian American audiences to accept the status quo in Hollywood and on TV — namely, the marginalization of Asian Americans within American culture — for too long. I don’t think that recommending Asian-national movies set in Asian nations helps to get Asian Americans away from this mind-set.

I don’t mean to take this whimsical little list too seriously, but I would like to see it reserved for films or TV shows that have direct meaning for Asian American empowerment — in an American or Western context — beyond simply seeing ethnically Asian main characters.

there you go again.

see if you're asian, one asian ethnicity playing another asian ethnicity may actually bother some asians.

it doesn't bother me that a korean dude is playing a vietnamese dude in a movie. but, it may bother say mister laisteve66 over there. let me tell you what does bother me is that it's almost like you're trying to force us to comform to your notion that there isn't anything wrong with it when clearly there's pros and cons to both sides and no right or wrong answer.

I don’t follow your argument. If it doesn’t bother you that an actor of one Asian ethicity is playing a character of another Asian ethnicity in an English-language project, should it bother Mr. Laisteve66?

I’m not saying that there aren’t any instances at all when it might be desirable to cast an ethnic-specific character with an actor of the same ethnicity, but by and large, I don’t see any problem with casting across ethnic lines — as long as a racially Asian character is played by an Asian actor. I say this because Asian actors do not have the same opportunities in Hollywood that their Caucasian colleagues have.

Incidentally, my point of view on this issue is shared by the East West Players, L.A.’s Asian American regional theatre company.

deez nuts

09-14-2005, 01:45 PM

I don’t follow your argument. If it doesn’t bother you that an actor of one Asian ethicity is playing a character of another Asian ethnicity in an English-language project, should it bother Mr. Laisteve66?

it's not hard. please try and follow:

deez nuts = me

laisteve66 = him

two seperate asian entities capable of individual and independent thought.

ergo: if it doesn't bother me;it doesn't mean it won't bother him.

Incidentally, my point of view on this issue is shared by the East West Players, L.A.’s Asian American regional theatre company.

yeah well my view is shared by the asian surgeons of the american surgical association. i'm just fucking with you. it's actually not.

Shuriken

09-14-2005, 02:02 PM

it's not hard. please try and follow:

deez nuts = me

laisteve66 = him

two seperate asian entities capable of individual and independent thought.

ergo: if it doesn't bother me;it doesn't mean it won't bother him.

If you give the other person’s opinion equal weight to your own, then your own viewpoint must not be particularly strong. Example:

Shuriken = me

George W. Bush = him

George W. Bush apparently thinks that it’s okay to lie to the American people about the necessity to go to war with another country, a war with a body count approaching 2,000 and going much worse than its architects predicted. I don’t agree with this.

But we’re two separate people capable of individual and independent thought.

I’m not saying that issues of entertainment are equivalent to issues of war or of a president lying to the American people, but I see this as more than a mere difference of opinion.

For example, if one insists that a character of one Asian ethnicity — in an English-language film — be played by an Asian actor of that specific ethnicity, this could cut into opportunities for all Asian American actors. So, as trivial as this issue might seem, I think that it has major implications for the issue of equal opportunity — an issue of importance — in America.

Anyway, I don’t mean to sound too strident. I’m trying to keep an air of fun about the postings on these boards. But sometimes, I can sound more serious and brusque than I mean to be. :smile:

deez nuts

09-14-2005, 03:33 PM

If you give the other person’s opinion equal weight to your own, then your own viewpoint must not be particularly strong. Example:

Shuriken = me

George W. Bush = him

George W. Bush apparently thinks that it’s okay to lie to the American people about the necessity to go to war with another country, a war with a body count approaching 2,000 and going much worse than its architects predicted. I don’t agree with this.

But we’re two separate people capable of individual and independent thought.

I’m not saying that issues of entertainment are equivalent to issues of war or of a president lying to the American people, but I see this as more than a mere difference of opinion.

For example, if one insists that a character of one Asian ethnicity — in an English-language film — be played by an Asian actor of that specific ethnicity, this could cut into opportunities for all Asian American actors. So, as trivial as this issue might seem, I think that it has major implications for the issue of equal opportunity — an issue of importance — in America.

Anyway, I don’t mean to sound too strident. I’m trying to keep an air of fun about the postings on these boards. But sometimes, I can sound more serious and brusque than I mean to be. :smile:

of course, i give his opinion equal weight to my opinion unless of course i think i'm better than him? do you think you're better than him? does your opinion carry more weight maybe because you're in the "business" you think your opinion carries more weight?

and on top of that, i already previously stated there's pros and cons to both arguments and there's no definitive right answer.

we're not talking about brain surgery here.

some asians are bothered by it. some asians are not bothered by it. neither side is right or wrong.

you may be thinking why some asians may be bothered by it? i think it has something to do with the fact that asians are mistaken for another asian ethnicity or how asians are asked questions like what is the difference between a chinese person and a japanese person or you know that running joke that we all look alike? do you know what it feels like? it's pretty annoying at times. that is why i am sympathetic to why some asians are bothered by the fact that an asian of one ethnicity is playing an asian of another ethnicity on screen.

Napoleon Chynamite

09-14-2005, 03:44 PM

that is why i am sympathetic to why some asians are bothered by the fact that an asian of one ethnicity is playing an asian of another ethnicity on screen.

Expressing sympathy are we now? Attempting to put yourself in someone else's shoes? What is this shit? My wussiness must've rubbed off on you~

LaiSteve66

09-18-2005, 10:11 PM

Since the role of Johnny Tran didn’t require Rick Yune to speak any Vietnamese, why should it matter whether the role was played by a Vietnamese American, a Korean American, or an Asian American actor of any other ethnicity?

Some of us are "equipped" with Viet-dars, thus we can tell just by looking at him that he's not Viet and it promotes the idea that all Asians are the same when they're not.

returntosender

09-18-2005, 11:52 PM

Not to derail the topic but has anyone seen the opening 5 minutes to 'What planet are you from?'.

If yes, what do you think of it?

Azn Retribution

10-06-2005, 12:59 PM

ON THE EDGE

**snippy**
KUNG FU (TV, 1972-75)

Still regarded with contempt in some circles for not casting its Asian lead role with an Asian actor — David Carradine got the part — this single issue shouldn't eclipse how good the series is. According to Warner Brothers, Bruce Lee did not develop the show, and Asian American actors (including Lee) were at least considered for the lead before the casting agents moved onto auditioning Caucasians. Along with Lee's movies, this TV series fueled the kung-fu craze of its time and did more than any previous work to foster an awareness of Asian American history. After more than 30 years — with the possible exception of its now-surpassed fighting scenes — the show still holds up.

Do NOT be a Kung Fu Apologist.
They fucking stole that shit from Bruce Lee.
It's true.
Check the IMDB credits. He's a co-creator.
WB doesn't want to give him credit cuz of course. They want to f'ing steal it.

Check the Wikipedia Page on Kung Fu the series for the real story
or here's an excerpt

Carradine won the lead role over Bruce Lee. It was felt that Bruce Lee's accent was too strong for American audiences and that Bruce looked "too Oriental" [sic]. However, Bruce Lee is still credited as one of the co-creators of the show on IMDB.

It should eclipse how good the series is.
The series was a fucking sham.

Shuriken

10-09-2005, 12:40 PM

Do NOT be a Kung Fu Apologist.
They fucking stole that shit from Bruce Lee.
It's true.
Check the IMDB credits. He's a co-creator.
WB doesn't want to give him credit cuz of course. They want to f'ing steal it.

Check the Wikipedia Page on Kung Fu the series for the real story
or here's an excerpt

Carradine won the lead role over Bruce Lee. It was felt that Bruce Lee's accent was too strong for American audiences and that Bruce looked "too Oriental" [sic]. However, Bruce Lee is still credited as one of the co-creators of the show on IMDB.

It should eclipse how good the series is.
The series was a fucking sham.

I wouldn’t depend on IMDB as a resource. I’ve noticed a number of errors on the site. Simply because IMDB says something, that’s not good enough for me.

Your Wikipedia quote affirms that Bruce was at least considered for the role. My big beef with the musical Miss Saigon is that Asian actors weren’t even considered for the show’s Asian male lead (for its Broadway premiere).

I’m sorry to see David Carradine in Kung Fu looked upon as the epitome of yellowface when there are so many other examples worthier of criticism.

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=10781

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showpost.php?p=354676&postcount=65

I’m willing to believe that Warner Bros. “stole” the project from Bruce (stealing goes on all the time in Hollywood), but I would like to see more concrete evidence for the allegation than something said on IMDB.

zero

10-23-2005, 10:46 AM

http://www.doubtonbroadway.com/images/doubt-home-keyart.jpg

You guys should see Doubt on Broadway. It's less than $27 for a balcony seat. It's about how Catholic school resolves a child molest case based on hearsay alone where the victim is the first black student.

Shuriken

11-01-2005, 03:32 PM

http://www.footlight.com/img/product/125/29219.jpg

A 1975 PBS production of Frank Chin’s play Year of the Dragon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0227845/) (not to be confused with the Michael Cimino film) — starring George Takei, Tina Chen, and Pat Suzuki — has finally been made available on DVD. The play concerns a Chinese American family that falls apart when the bigamist father brings his first wife over from China to live under the same roof as his Chinese American second wife. Takei plays the son who chafes at living in his father’s shadow. The DVD is worth watching for Takei’s tour de force performance — and for a little-seen glimpse into what mid-’70s Asian American theatre was like.

Year of the Dragon is an American production, set in the United States, and filmed primarily in the English language. Where did my video store stock it? In the “foreign” section, of course.

juice4

12-06-2005, 01:46 PM

Here's a small list of movies I didn't notice on the board already.
(in no particular order)

Juzo Itami - Tampopo (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092048/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnx0dD0xfGZiPXV8cG49MHxrdz0xfHE9dGFtcG 9wb3xmdD0xfG14PTIwfGxtPTUwMHxjbz0xfGh0bWw9MXxubT0x ;fc=1;ft=23)

Hayao Miyazaki's - Hotaru no Haka (Grave of the Fireflies) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095327/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnx0dD0xfGZiPXV8cG49MHxrdz0xfHE9Z3Jhdm Ugb2YgdGhlIGZpcmVmbGllc3xmdD0xfG14PTIwfGxtPTUwMHxj bz0xfGh0bWw9MXxubT0x;fc=1;ft=21)
Tragic film covering a young boy and his little sister's struggle to survive in Japan during World War II.

Xiao Hai Bu Ben (I not Stupid) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307681/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnx0dD0xfGZiPXV8cG49MHxrdz0xfHE9aSBub3 Qgc3R1cGlkfGZ0PTF8bXg9MjB8bG09NTAwfGNvPTF8aHRtbD0x fG5tPTE_;fc=1;ft=21)

Kok Pin, Boon Hock and Terry are classmates in "EM3" stream. In Singapore, that means that at the age of 12, the government has decided that they are not as academically inclined as their peers. Kok Pin is creative and a born artist but his parents would rather he focus on his Maths and Sciences. Boon Hock comes from a low-income family and needs to balance school and helping out at the food stall. Terry, a spoilt brat is just too lazy a student. While the three children suffer from the pressure of school, their parents have another set of problems - their jobs and careers ..

That's it for now I guess...

What does everyone think of:

Better Luck Tomorrow?

Shuriken

12-07-2005, 04:53 PM

Here's a small list of movies I didn't notice on the board already.
(in no particular order)

Juzo Itami - Tampopo (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092048/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnx0dD0xfGZiPXV8cG49MHxrdz0xfHE9dGFtcG 9wb3xmdD0xfG14PTIwfGxtPTUwMHxjbz0xfGh0bWw9MXxubT0x ;fc=1;ft=23)

Hayao Miyazaki's - Hotaru no Haka (Grave of the Fireflies) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095327/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnx0dD0xfGZiPXV8cG49MHxrdz0xfHE9Z3Jhdm Ugb2YgdGhlIGZpcmVmbGllc3xmdD0xfG14PTIwfGxtPTUwMHxj bz0xfGh0bWw9MXxubT0x;fc=1;ft=21)
Tragic film covering a young boy and his little sister's struggle to survive in Japan during World War II.

Xiao Hai Bu Ben (I not Stupid) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307681/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnx0dD0xfGZiPXV8cG49MHxrdz0xfHE9aSBub3 Qgc3R1cGlkfGZ0PTF8bXg9MjB8bG09NTAwfGNvPTF8aHRtbD0x fG5tPTE_;fc=1;ft=21)

I keep saying this over and over: What relevance do these Asian-national films have for Asian Americans beyond seeing Asian characters in the leads???

I think that this is important because we need to do more to create opportunities for Asian American actors in the U.S. entertainment industry. Simply settling for Asian-national leads in Asian-national films has been an opiate for to long.

Again, I don’t mean to make a bigger issue of this than it is — and I don’t mean to sound too strident — but does everyone disagree with me? Does everyone believe that Hollywood, Broadway, and TV may continue marginalizing and misrepresenting Asian America as long as Asian American viewers have access to less-seen and less-influential Asian-national productions?

In other words, does everyone agree with the statement: “Hollywood can continue making Sixteen Candles, Showdown in Little Tokyo, Rising Sun, The Fast and the Furious, and The Transporter for the big screen, as long as I can watch My Sassy Girl on DVD”?