Tokto/Takeshima

[imturok]

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200503/08/200503082219573039900090409041.html

March 09, 2005 ㅡ South Korean Air Force jets were scrambled yesterday to intercept a Japanese civilian plane that was on the verge of intruding into air space above the disputed Tokto islands.
The flight ratcheted up tensions after a string of recent incidents reignited a simmering territorial dispute over the tiny islands, which are claimed by both Japan and Korea.
An official with the South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff said yesterday that a C-560 Cessna, belonging to the Asahi Shimbun, a major Japanese daily, asked South Korean authorities at Incheon International Airport for permission to enter the Korea Air Defense Identification Zone (KADIZ) in order to take pictures. The request was denied.
But at 9:28 am, South Korean military monitoring the airspace around the peninsula noticed the plane leaving Japan's Osaka International Airport. A South Korean air patrol of four F-5 jets was then alerted. Air defense forces issued four radio warnings at around 10 a.m. to the Japanese plane.
By this time, the four South Korean interceptors were within 50 kilometers (30 miles) of the Japanese plane. On the ground, two F-4 jets at Daegu Airport were also readied.
However, after the warnings, the plane ―that had come within a mile of the KADIZ ― turned away and headed back to Japan.
"If it turns out that the plane did this intentionally, we will ask the Japanese government to take measures to prevent similar incidents," said a Foreign Ministry official. The Asahi Shimbun said the aircraft had no intention of intruding.


by Brian Lee <africanu@joongang.co.kr>

China has to learn from the Koreans to protect their sovereignity over Diaoyutai Islands.

[Jung Rhee]

Why is the Japanese government so hawkish all of a sudden???? I think the Bush, Condi Rice, Rumsfield neo cons are behind this as well.

[YuheiCarreau]

Why is the Japanese government so hawkish all of a sudden???? I think the Bush, Condi Rice, Rumsfield neo cons are behind this as well.

If you read the article, there is no mention of the Japanese government. It was a civilian plane. If anything, this is an example of hawkish behavior by the SK government - if the Bush government ordered a plane chartered by the NY Times to be escorted before it entered protected airspace, it would be called a major violation of civil liberties (and rightly so).

But hey, if it makes the Japanese look bad, it must be true, right turok?

[yuuteya]

But hey, if it makes the Japanese look bad, it must be true, right turok?

of course

[Jung Rhee]

More breaking news on this conflict. Which sides do you take?

"'Dokdo More Important Than Korea-Japan Ties'

Korea is ready to risk its ties with Japan to defend its sovereignty over Dokdo, the two small uninhabited islets in the East Sea controlled by Korea but claimed by both countries.
Foreign Minister Ban Ki-moon said Wednesday the issue of Dokdo was more important than Korea-Japan relations since it was a matter of sovereignty over the country’s territory. He added that the government would stand firm on the question.

During a weekly briefing, the foreign minister also warned Japanese officials and politicians off making inappropriate remarks capable of offending Koreans - a reference to a claim by Japan's ambassador to Seoul that the rocky islets are Japanese "legally and historically." He said Japanese officials ought instead to seek some understanding of what their country did to Koreans in the past. But he added it would help neither Korea nor Japan to keep their relations as tense as they are.

Turning to the North Korean nuclear issue, Ban said now was the time for North Korea to return to the negotiating table. He said countries involved in stalled six-party talks on the issue repeatedly said the North would be able to discuss its conditions once it comes back to the talks. "

[Banana]

Crazy Asians...fighting over rocks.

[Faithless]

... the Asahi Shimbun, a major Japanese daily, asked South Korean authorities at Incheon International Airport for permission to enter the Korea Air Defense Identification Zone (KADIZ) in order to take pictures. The request was denied. But at 9:28 am, South Korean military monitoring the airspace around the peninsula noticed the plane leaving Japan's Osaka International Airport.
They asked, were denied, but yet continued on?

Of course someone's gonna scramble jets.

What sort of pictures did they want to take?

[yuuteya]

Crazy Asians...fighting over rocks.

it takes people with rocks in their head to fight over rocks

[AliBabaIncorporated]

We should ask Pakistan or India to blow the island up, preferably with a nuclear bomb, so that there's nothing left above the waterline. Problem solved. (Calling on China might work too, but it would look too much like they're trying to throw their weight around in the region, whereas Pakistan or India are two relatively disinterested nuclear powers).

[imturok]

We should ask Pakistan or India to blow the island up, preferably with a nuclear bomb, so that there's nothing left above the waterline. Problem solved. (Calling on China might work too, but it would look too much like they're trying to throw their weight around in the region, whereas Pakistan or India are two relatively disinterested nuclear powers).

Good idea. Let them do the same for the Diaoyutai Islands, the Nan-Sha Islands and the many others. I also hope the global warming effect will submerge these places as soon as possible. Lets burn more fossil fuels.

[yuuteya]

great, the big rock heads bang their big heads over little rocks, and the poor okinawans will have to suffer...

[golden_buns]

I dunno, maybe this hole mess is because those rocks would give more right to water limits

[Jung Rhee]

"Japanese textbook claims Tokto

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200503/11/200503112218506009900090409041.html
March 12, 2005 ㅡ The new edition of a social studies textbook for Japanese middle schools, written by a group of nationalist scholars, contains statements that say the Tokto islands between the Korean Peninsula and Japan are a part of Japanese territory. The disclosure that the texts claim the islands as Japanese provoked a strong reaction yesterday in Korea.
The Tokto islands, located about 90 kilometers (56 miles) southeast of the South Korea's Ulleungdo island in the East Sea (Sea of Japan), have been at the center of a long-running territorial dispute between South Korea and Japan.
The Japanese call the islands Takeshima.
The textbook, published by Fusosha and written by the Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform, said the islands are "Japan's inherent territory, historically and under international law."
The 2001 version of the same textbook had only claimed that the islands historically belonged to Japan.
The name Tokto stems from Korean words for rocky islands. Takeshima, in Japanese, means bamboo island.
The Asia Peace and History Education Network, an alliance of 90 South Korean civic groups, released proposed passages from the textbook at a press conference yesterday in Seoul. The civic network, formed in 2000 to confront Japanese nationalism in its history textbooks, made public the new material on Tokto.
The same materials were also made public by Nobuyoshi Takashima, a professor at Ryukyu University, and Satoshi Uesugi, a historian at Kansai University. At a press conference in Tokyo, the Japanese historians said Japanese Education Ministry officials have been showing favoritism to nationalist writers of the textbooks.
The Japanese government has yet to approve the textbook revisions. A decision on the sensitive issue is expected next month.
On page 128 of the text, a passage refers to Japan's territorial disputes with neighboring countries.
It reads: "Northern territories such as Kunashiri, Etorofu, Shikotan and Habomai, Takeshima in the Sea of Japan, and Senkaku in the East China Sea are claimed and partially controlled by Russia, South Korea and China respectively, but they are part of Japan's inherent territory historically and under international law."
A caption with a photograph of Tokto in the textbook says, "Takeshima, which is at the center of a South Korean-Japanese territorial dispute."
According to the Asia Peace and History Education Network, the proposed revision of the history text glosses over Japan's colonial rule of its Asian neighbors. The textbook says Korea was a dependency of China in the 19th century. It also provides a separate chapter, titled "Japan, a helping hand for Joseon's modernization," and claims the Japanese government believed that annexation of Korea was needed to protect Japan's stability and its interests in Manchuria.
The Joseon Dynasty controlled the Korean Peninsula from 1392 until 1910 when Japan annexed the Korean peninsula.
The textbook, like its original 2001 version, makes no mention of the issues associated with "comfort women," sex slaves from Japan's colonies forcibly drafted by the Japanese Imperial Army during the World War II.
"It is saddening that the proposed textbooks of Fusosha rationalize Japan's wrongdoing and look down on the history of its neighboring countries," Lee Kyu-hyung, spokesman for the South Korean Foreign Ministry, said. "The government will take any necessary measures through a task-force team."
Controversies already erupted in 2001 when the nationalistic history textbook was planned and authorized in Japan. Tokyo rejected request from authorities in Seoul and Beijing to change parts of the textbook at the time.


Seoul refrains from complaining

The South Korean government refrained yesterday from complaining to Tokyo over the Tokto textbook issue.
According to a South Korean official, Seoul obtained the textbook draft in October, but kept the matter quiet until yesterday because the information was passed along secretly.
The official said Seoul has been engaged in quiet diplomacy to revise particularly sensitive passages in the textbooks.
For the next three weeks, South Korea will continue to refrain from making open demands, the official said. The Japanese Education Ministry will make a decision whether to authorize the textbook on April 5. The South Korean government believes that the distortions will likely be revised eventually through editing, the official said.
Seoul has expressed its concerns to Tokyo though the South Korea-Japan summit, minister-level meetings and political channels, the official said. Disputes could take place through August when most Japanese schools choose their textbooks.


by Ser Myo-ja, Yeh Young-june <myoja@joongang.co.kr> "

[Banana]

Another reason to avoid caring what Japan has to say about anything.

[Jung Rhee]

Banana, I think the Bush neocons government is behind all these japanese Neo-imperialist agressions on KOREAN TERRITORIES!!!

http://www.tokdo.co.kr/english/english_index.htm
Check this site out for Korean history on Tokto

[EDITORIALS]More distorted history in Japan


Once again, textbooks to be authorized by the Japanese Ministry of Education have distorted history. Manuscripts for history and social life middle-school textbooks that were submitted to the Education Ministry by Fusosha have created controversy for depicting relations between Korea and Japan in ways that depart from the facts. The social life textbook states that Takeshima, as the Japanese call the Tokto islets, is Japanese territory under international law. This is another violation of our territorial rights, coming soon after the Shimane prefecture's adoption of "Takeshima Day." This second wave of textbook turmoil surprised our government and cast a shadow over the "Korea-Japan Friendship Year," designated to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations.
Fusosha is a publishing house supported by an ultra-rightist group called the Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform. The company caused similar problems in 2001, publishing a history textbook that whitewashed imperial Japan's invasion of its neighbors. This year it has stirred an even bigger controversy by inserting justifications of Japanese colonial rule in its social life textbook, which deals with democratic values. The textbook's omission of the fact that Japan forced Koreans into hard labor and sex slavery, while stating that its rule contributed to Korean modernization, amounts to an erasure of history that goes beyond distortion.
What is important is that because of the support of ultra-rightists, these textbooks have a better chance of being used in schools than the 2001 editions did. If Fusosha textbooks are adopted by more schools, in line with the rightward trend in Japan, relations between Korea and Japan will not move an inch, because they are tied to the dark years of the past. It is proper, therefore, that civic groups and academics in both countries decide on joint action in criticizing these textbooks and trying to prevent their use in schools.
It still remains for the Fusosha textbooks to be inspected and authorized by the Japanese Ministry of Education before they are put on the market. Japanese and Korean historians and civic groups are demanding that the government correct the errors and the arrogance, in the textbooks and restore a balanced historical view. We call upon the Japanese government to make an honorable decision in the eyes of the international community.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200503/11/200503112155007839900090109011.html

[Mo'Taka]

I'm sure the korean fighter jets that patrols tokto thinks otherwise

[SunWuKong]

the islands are disputed, right? if so, i don't see why it's so surprising that Japanese textbooks claim they're part of Japanese territory.

whether each side's claim is justified or not is another story. i personally don't know much about it though.

[Chu Chi]

Banana, I think the Bush neocons government is behind all these japanese Neo-imperialist agressions on KOREAN TERRITORIES!!!

So now we know who REALLY owns the island.

NEXT CASE PLEASE.

(unless you want to challenge "them")

CC

[Jung Rhee]

CIA supports Japan's claim???

CIA Calls Dokdo Islets 'Disputed Territory'


A picture of the Dokdo islets taken from a Korean Navy P-3C maritime patrol aircraft


Japanese Plane Tries to Fly Over Dokdo
Japan's Asahi Shimbun Says It had No Intention to Cause Trouble
Jets Scramble Again as Japanese Patrol Craft Approaches Dokdo Islets



The CIA World Factbook, a website maintained by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, lists the Korean-administered Dokdo Islets as disputed territory.
The Voluntary Agency Network of Korea (VANK), a group trailing the Internet for what it says are distortions about Korea, said Sunday it found CIA factbooks from 2002 to 2005 biased towards Japan’s claim to the islands, giving the international community the impression that the Dokdo Islets were subject to an "unresolved dispute".

The CIA factbook’s section on Korea (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ks.html) includes Dokdo in its section on international disputes, along with the Military Demarcation Line between North and South Korea. The site, which was updated last month, points to an “unresolved dispute with Japan over the Liancourt Rocks (Tok-do/Take-shima).” It also points to friction over fishing rights, reflecting an argument used by Tokyo.

Liancourt was the name of the French whaling ship that first told the West of the location of the islets in 1849. VANK claims the use of the name for the uninhabited islets in the East Sea reflected a Japanese campaign to dilute Korean claim of sovereignty over the territory.

Many international websites use the CIA factbook as their standard in marking the territories of each nation. Of 12 overseas websites that received protests from local Internet users last year over simultaneously marking the rocks “Dokdo” and “Takeshima,” two declined to make any change and nine said they would take their lead from the CIA World Factbook. VANK director Park Gi-tae said the number of websites using both Dokdo and Takeshima grew from 622 in July 2004 to 2,180 in March 2005.

Park said the Japanese government had been conducting a "worldwide lobbying campaign" for many years to foster international understanding that the Dokdo Islets are Japanese territory. He said the CIA was reproducing the Japanese view in an international forum and called on Koreans to protest.

(englishnews@chosun.com )

[YuheiCarreau]

CIA supports Japan's claim???

CIA Calls Dokdo Islets 'Disputed Territory'


A picture of the Dokdo islets taken from a Korean Navy P-3C maritime patrol aircraft


Japanese Plane Tries to Fly Over Dokdo
Japan's Asahi Shimbun Says It had No Intention to Cause Trouble
Jets Scramble Again as Japanese Patrol Craft Approaches Dokdo Islets



The CIA World Factbook, a website maintained by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, lists the Korean-administered Dokdo Islets as disputed territory.
The Voluntary Agency Network of Korea (VANK), a group trailing the Internet for what it says are distortions about Korea, said Sunday it found CIA factbooks from 2002 to 2005 biased towards Japan’s claim to the islands, giving the international community the impression that the Dokdo Islets were subject to an "unresolved dispute".

The CIA factbook’s section on Korea (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ks.html) includes Dokdo in its section on international disputes, along with the Military Demarcation Line between North and South Korea. The site, which was updated last month, points to an “unresolved dispute with Japan over the Liancourt Rocks (Tok-do/Take-shima).” It also points to friction over fishing rights, reflecting an argument used by Tokyo.

Liancourt was the name of the French whaling ship that first told the West of the location of the islets in 1849. VANK claims the use of the name for the uninhabited islets in the East Sea reflected a Japanese campaign to dilute Korean claim of sovereignty over the territory.

Many international websites use the CIA factbook as their standard in marking the territories of each nation. Of 12 overseas websites that received protests from local Internet users last year over simultaneously marking the rocks “Dokdo” and “Takeshima,” two declined to make any change and nine said they would take their lead from the CIA World Factbook. VANK director Park Gi-tae said the number of websites using both Dokdo and Takeshima grew from 622 in July 2004 to 2,180 in March 2005.

Park said the Japanese government had been conducting a "worldwide lobbying campaign" for many years to foster international understanding that the Dokdo Islets are Japanese territory. He said the CIA was reproducing the Japanese view in an international forum and called on Koreans to protest.

(englishnews@chosun.com )

This is bordering on neurosis. Is it really necessary for you to post every little tidbit of information on this topic? Especially when it's redundant, like this article? Of course the CIA World Factbook is going to list the islands as "disputed" - there are two nations having an ongoing dispute over them! Even if they recognized them as belonging to Japan or Korea, it wouldn't matter; for all practical purposes, there are no universally recognized legal institutions, and even if there were any the CIA isn't one of them. Why, then, is the article written in such an outraged tone?

I didn't want to complain earlier, but this is starting to put me on edge.

[Jung Rhee]

This is bordering on neurosis. Is it really necessary for you to post every little tidbit of information on this topic? Especially when it's redundant, like this article? Of course the CIA World Factbook is going to list the islands as "disputed" - there are two nations having an ongoing dispute over them! Even if they recognized them as belonging to Japan or Korea, it wouldn't matter; for all practical purposes, there are no universally recognized legal institutions, and even if there were any the CIA isn't one of them. Why, then, is the article written in such an outraged tone?

I didn't want to complain earlier, but this is starting to put me on edge.

Excuse me, this is a brand new article from today newspaper, and relevant to the topic of this thread in a different angle. Instead of attacking me, why don't you give us some facts here and tell us Dokto belongs to Japan. We all know that Dokto is part of Korea, that is the very truth of the matter. Debate that!

[yuuteya]

hnn, interesting. first there were those chinese nationalists in the last bunch of threads, and then now it looks like its a korean nationalist in here. so since everyone has gone nationalist, can the japanese people also be allowed to be openly nationalistic too? or would that instantly be shot down as with the trump card of ww2/imperialism again... hnn i wonder. hurah for narcissism, err, i mean, nationalism. what a glorious future.

[yuuteya]

so only japanese nationalists are all bad and wrong, but the korean nationalists are all good and right? wow so black and white. like a childrens fairy tale

personally i think all nationalists are narcisistic narrowminded idiots, be they japanese, korean or chinese. so whats the breaking news?

[Shogun Empress]

so only japanese nationalists are all bad and wrong, but the korean nationalists are all good and right? wow so black and white. like a childrens fairy tale

personally i think all nationalists are narcisistic narrowminded idiots, be they japanese, korean or chinese. so whats the breaking news? The breaking news is that you're starting to realize that Japanese are outnumbered by the Chinese and Koreans of Yelloworld. But I think you already knew that. LOL@Children's fairy tale!

[deez nuts]

The breaking news is that you're starting to realize that Japanese are outnumbered by the Chinese and Koreans of Yelloworld. But I think you already knew that. LOL@Children's fairy tale!


and we're all out to get you japanese if you don't behave. it's time to start kissing our collective chinese asses and join the winning side or we'll snatch you up in your sleep and then do all sorts of things to you.

[applehead]

so what. they've been claiming it's theirs for yeeeears.
but it's ours!!! ALL OURS!!!!

[YuheiCarreau]

Excuse me, this is a brand new article from today newspaper, and relevant to the topic of this thread in a different angle. Instead of attacking me, why don't you give us some facts here and tell us Dokto belongs to Japan. We all know that Dokto is part of Korea, that is the very truth of the matter. Debate that!

There is absolutely no new information in that article. It adds nothing to the debate; IMO it makes the debate look even sillier by getting annoyed that the CIA hasn't taken sides in the matter.

And I don't give a crap who owns a pile of rocks in the Pacific. Get over it and quit harassing Japanese YW members.

[SunWuKong]

can't they just draw a line and split the damn thing up? what, is their oil under there?

[SunWuKong]

the two Tokto/Takeshima threads have been merged.
might i remind everybody to be civil to each other.
and if the only new posts in this thread is going to be a bunch of farting around, it's going to be closed. this "Japanese government is evil" trend is starting to get out of hand.

[TB4000]

S.Koreans Chop Off Fingers in Anti-Japan Protest

Mon Mar 14, 3:55 AM ET World - Reuters



SEOUL (Reuters) - Two Koreans used weed clippers and a knife to lop off fingers on Monday outside the Japanese embassy in Seoul to protest at Tokyo's claims on a group of desolate islands that South Korea (news - web sites) insists is its territory.





Park Kyung-ja, a 67-year-old woman, and Cho Seung-kyu, 40, each chopped off a finger during a rally at the embassy gates.


The long-simmering dispute over the islands, called Tokto in Korea and Takeshima in Japan, flared as Tokyo and Seoul were celebrating the 40th anniversary of diplomatic ties.


Park and Cho struggled with police in riot gear guarding the embassy as they severed their digits. Police said the pair were then rushed away for medical treatment.


The two were part of a group of 16 people that burned Japanese flags and shouted slogans accusing Japan of acting as Korea's colonial overlord. Japan ruled the Korean Peninsula from 1910 to 1945.


"Japan must stop the attempt to invade Tokto," demanded Hong Jung-shik, who leads an anti-Japan organization based in Seoul.


Japanese Ambassador Toshiyuki Takano was in Tokyo on Monday to discuss the sudden deterioration of bilateral ties.


The dispute dates back 60 years to the end of World war two, when a defeated Japan withdrew from the peninsula. The volcanic islands, uninhabited except for a South Korean garrison, sit astride rich fishing grounds.


South Korean government officials have said that the territorial dispute could harm the neighbors' warming ties.


"No country in the world conducts quiet diplomacy when it comes to territorial rights," ruling Uri Party member Kim Won-wung said on South Korea's KBS radio.


The dispute over the rocky outcrops in the Sea of Japan, which South Korea refers to as the East Sea, flared in late February when Takano restated Tokyo's position that the islands were "historically and legally" part of Japan.


The islands lie midway between Japan and South Korea, about 220 km (140 miles) from the eastern Korean port of Samchok and the same distance from Matsue in western Japan.

[Lt.Foo]

hnn, interesting. first there were those chinese nationalists in the last bunch of threads, and then now it looks like its a korean nationalist in here. so since everyone has gone nationalist, can the japanese people also be allowed to be openly nationalistic too? or would that instantly be shot down as with the trump card of ww2/imperialism again... hnn i wonder. hurah for narcissism, err, i mean, nationalism. what a glorious future.

I resent the fact that because we were discussing relevant issues of repatriation the chinese are called Nationalist? If it's not a big deal, then why doesn't the Japanese govt stop claiming the island and also stop crying over the Sakhalin islands up north?

Technically, as long as an island is part of a state, the state has the rightful territorial borders that is 200 miles from shore. After that it is considered international waters. It's just another attempt to reach out to mainland Asia.

[SunWuKong]

Technically, as long as an island is part of a state, the state has the rightful territorial borders that is 200 miles from shore. After that it is considered international waters. It's just another attempt to reach out to mainland Asia.

well... i don't know about that. do you know where the island is?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40924000/gif/_40924249_japan_disputed_map203.gif

doesn't really help Japan "reach out" to mainland Asia as much as it does to simply protect its own ocean territories.

[YuheiCarreau]

well... i don't know about that. do you know where the island is?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40924000/gif/_40924249_japan_disputed_map203.gif

doesn't really help Japan "reach out" to mainland Asia as much as it does to simply protect its own ocean territories.

Those aren't the islands we're talking about. The ones that Japan and Korea are fighting over are in between the two countries.

[SunWuKong]

Those aren't the islands we're talking about. The ones that Japan and Korea are fighting over are in between the two countries.

yeah i just realised this. i got that picture from BBC's article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4347851.stm

it seems they took the image down from the article. it was here:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40924000/gif/_40924249_japan_disputed_map203.gif
it seems they have the wrong map...



this is where Tokto/Takeshima is:

[YuheiCarreau]

I resent the fact that because we were discussing relevant issues of repatriation the chinese are called Nationalist? If it's not a big deal, then why doesn't the Japanese govt stop claiming the island and also stop crying over the Sakhalin islands up north?

Technically, as long as an island is part of a state, the state has the rightful territorial borders that is 200 miles from shore. After that it is considered international waters. It's just another attempt to reach out to mainland Asia.

There's a big difference between making a rational argument in favor of war reparations and the ridiculous accusations that were tossed around in some of the recent threads on Japan and China. But I don't think yuuteya was referring to you when he made that comment.

[yuuteya]

can't they just draw a line and split the damn thing up? what, is their oil under there? alot of these disputes keep citing 'historical reasons' that instantly ignites all the idiotic nationalism among private citizens, but its just a political ruse that uses the 'imagined past' to deflect the real reasons: materialistic greed in the real present. oil? minerals? possible materials? bingo! depite all the talk of the yesterdays, the ww2 obsessions, its all about the today, the here, the now!

what real live people actually use or visit those islands in the recent times, today? its not the fat greasy greedy cats in beijing, seoul, or tokyo. its not the fanatical nationalist activists.

these disputes should be centrally involved the local people, those who actually live in very close proximity to the islands for years, such as fisherpeople or sea farmers, of whatever countries, the people whos lives are directly affected by whatever happens, they should decide it collectively and directly, not just the national-central governments that only see it far away from an abstract/strategic/political view that becomes blinded by nationalists loud mouths and capitalists large bribes.

because the issue is closer to their lives and their hearts, the local/close proximity people should be made more important in the process. especially in the case of 'senkaku' (defacto name) which has been used by ishigaki okinawa people for fishing rests posts and as beackons by incoming traders to ryukyu islands from china, taiwan and philippines.

stupid korean/japanese/chinese nationalists like to invoke grand visions as a ruse for selfish/narcisistic, own-country only, greedy mentality, but they dont really care about the islands themselves, they has never even visited the islands, never touched the islands.. politicians in the capital cities start talking, then radical private citizens like the nationalist activist groups also talk about the islands, as if its their stolen lover and they miss having sex with them, they are so fanatcial so as to die for them, its a futile waste!

nationalists just imagines them from a map. a two-dimensional piece of paper, like hitler looking greedily at a map of europe ready to draw new lines, ignoring the living people whos real lives will be affected by those abstract lines. nationalism is all about imagination, and manipulation of 'history' and maps, unfortunately it is a very narcisitic imagination. despite all the cozy talk of ethnic identity, the nationalism that always comes out of imagined ethnicity is a large scale narcisism that they want to force into everyones realities. the abstract forced into becoming a reality. and then the humble fisherpeople and lowly sea farmers who are more intersted in making an honest living are forgetted, and those maps become the main obsession for the university-educated green skins in politics and radical activism.. the blind and dangerous love of 'nation' is the obsession of the nationlist activists as they are baited by the capital city opportunistic politicians who also baited by greedy capitalists. a great big wonderful chain, like big dog chasing its fat tail... how about cut it out so some little people can get their little fishing done and get home in time for a little dinner?

and we're all out to get you japanese if you don't behave. it's time to start kissing our collective chinese asses and join the winning side or we'll snatch you up in your sleep and then do all sorts of things to you.

hnn, so there must be some kind of connection between the rise of chinese nationalism and the anus. interesting.

I resent the fact that because we were discussing relevant issues of repatriation the chinese are called Nationalist? If it's not a big deal, then why doesn't the Japanese govt stop claiming the island and also stop crying over the Sakhalin islands up north?

patriot and nation are abstractions that quite related in the fanatical reality. next.


Technically, as long as an island is part of a state, the state has the rightful territorial borders that is 200 miles from shore. After that it is considered
the state of the republic of south korea, of course.


It's just another attempt to reach out to mainland Asia. a subtext that suggest a rise of japanese neo-imperialism. come on just say 'attempt to reconquer mainland Asia'... at the end of the day thats the real point who want to make, isnt it?