Films about IRR with Asians

[kimpossible]

This is a continuation of a discussion that started on Casting Calls for APIA Actors (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=21065) which featured calls for actors to portray Asians in interracial relationships with Caucasians.

If you would like to respond to a post on that topic, please quote and respond here.

I can't figure out if I'm the ultimate hypocrite or I maybe feel under the glare of a magnifying glass but I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of an 'interracial relationship' movie focused solely on white/Asian relationships.

And not just because of the old Asian females with white males and Asian males left out in the cold. I'm no more excited by the prospect of equal representation of Asian males with white females in exact ratios of Asian females with white males.

I still want more representation of Asian American females with Asian American males in a regular relationship with regular ups and downs. I don't get the whole balance the number of AF/WM couples with AM/WF couples thing. Or if it's really going to be about Asians in interracial relationships, don't limit it to white only.

[Craig]

Call my reaction what you wish, but let's just take a look at the demographics and ponder ...

White Males - 12
White Females - 2

Asian Males - 7
Asian Females - 5

Mixed Asian/White Female - 1

Looks like the film will be a doozy that represents everything America has come to expect of Asian representation ...

SD Films, (SDF) seeks talent for a short to begin shooting in LA in the summer of 2005. Please, LA residents ONLY, preferably within the geographic area from downtown on the east, to Sherman Oaks on the north, to Santa Monica on the West, to Torrance on the South. Most parts necessitate one or two days at most; Non-SAG, no pay, very casual, short shoot days. Credit, lunch, copy of film provided. If you are interested in any of the following roles, please send headshots, bios and contact information, preferably in electronic format, to: sdfilms [at] gmail.com where “[at]” is replaced with “@” – this is written like this in order to discourage spam bots from trolling for email addresses. You may also reply via snail mail to: SD Films, 1511 Sawtelle Blvd. #353, LA, CA 90025-3206

AUDITIONS will be conducted in May 2005; exact dates will be announced.

The film shows the complexities of interracial dating by exploring different points of view to reveal how there is more than meets the eye with this subject.

NOTE: SDF encourages Asians within the entire “Asian population” to become involved –east Asian and south Asian, Pacific Islanders, nationals and American. For convenience, “Asian” is used below as a descriptive in this general sense.

CAST:

INTERVIEWER – White Male, 30’s, Professional.

CARRIE – Asian Female, Mid-20’s, Attractive.

PROFESSOR KATSU – Asian Male, 40’s – 50’s, University Professor in History.

BRAD – White Male, Mid-20’s, Grad Student, Clean cut, boyfriend of Jennifer.

JENNIFER – Asian Female, Mid-20’s, Grad Student, Brad’s girlfriend.

BRIAN – Asian Male, Late teens/early 20’s, College Undergrad, Clean cut.

GARY – White Male, 30 - 40, Clean cut, Patron in bar.

DIANE – Asian Female, 25 - 35, Attractive, Patron in bar.

BARTENDER – White Male, 30’s – 40’s, Clean cut.

COLIN – White Male, 50’s, Gay character.

YOSHI – Asian Male, 20’s, Gay character.

CORY – White Male, Mid-20’s, Hip.

LAURA – Asian Female, 25 - 30, Professional.

WHITE NERD 1 – any age.

WHITE NERD 2 – any age.

WHITE NERD 3 – any age.

WHITE NERD 4 – any age.

LENA – White Female, Early 30’s, Professional.

MARIA – Asian Female, Early 30’s, Attractive.

GEORGE – White Male, Mid-30’s, Office Manager.

DARIO – Asian Male (Filipino preferred), Late teens/early 20’s, College Undergrad, Hip.

TONY – Asian Male, Late teens/early 20’s, College Undergrad, Hip.

CONRAD – Asian Male, Late teens/early 20’s, College Undergrad, Hip.

BRENDA – Mixed Race Asian/White Female, 25-35, Professional.

DAVID – White Male, Late 20’s, Average Looks, Computer Programmer.

SARAH – White Female, Late 20’s, Smart, Professional.

MING – Asian Male, Mid-30’s, Tall, Smart, Professional.

[YuheiCarreau]

This is a continuation of a discussion that started on Casting Calls for APIA Actors (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=21065) which featured calls for actors to portray Asians in interracial relationships with Caucasians.

If you would like to respond to a post on that topic, please quote and respond here.

I can't figure out if I'm the ultimate hypocrite or I maybe feel under the glare of a magnifying glass but I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of an 'interracial relationship' movie focused solely on white/Asian relationships.

And not just because of the old Asian females with white males and Asian males left out in the cold. I'm no more excited by the prospect of equal representation of Asian males with white females in exact ratios of Asian females with white males.

I still want more representation of Asian American females with Asian American males in a regular relationship with regular ups and downs. I don't get the whole balance the number of AF/WM couples with AM/WF couples thing. Or if it's really going to be about Asians in interracial relationships, don't limit it to white only.

Yes, I find it odd too. It often seems to me that Asian Americans are represented in US media alone, or only in the context of a relationship with a White person. How strange it is that we never see AAs interacting with one another, even as friends.

Conversely, the "politically correct" representation of Blacks is to ALWAYS pair Black men and women together, though this is usually done so carelessly that it seems the only reason two Black characters are in a movie/TV show is that one Black person all alone wouldn't be enough.

[kitty]

This is a continuation of a discussion that started on Casting Calls for APIA Actors (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=21065) which featured calls for actors to portray Asians in interracial relationships with Caucasians.

If you would like to respond to a post on that topic, please quote and respond here.

I can't figure out if I'm the ultimate hypocrite or I maybe feel under the glare of a magnifying glass but I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of an 'interracial relationship' movie focused solely on white/Asian relationships.

And not just because of the old Asian females with white males and Asian males left out in the cold. I'm no more excited by the prospect of equal representation of Asian males with white females in exact ratios of Asian females with white males.

I still want more representation of Asian American females with Asian American males in a regular relationship with regular ups and downs. I don't get the whole balance the number of AF/WM couples with AM/WF couples thing. Or if it's really going to be about Asians in interracial relationships, don't limit it to white only.


i agree with that, although i might argue that if one wanted to do an in-depth and detailed look at the white/Asian sexual relations on film, one might not have room to include the arguably different dynamics of Asian/other ethnicity relations in that same film.

I understand that this isn't supposed to be a thread on picking and choosing representation, but you fail to realize the dangers of saying that you are looking only to generally increase APIA representation in films. Obviously, you don't understand my argument about those dangers when only a general increase is desired, as opposed to quality increases in representation.

I do understand your argument. I just think it's a tad myopic. overall, yes, we have to be careful of what representations we try to promote, but in this case, i think that caution is misguided.

I objected to the assumption that the film was automatically going to pair all the white men with asian women and have a giant wm/af lovefest. I'm willing to give the film the benefit of the doubt given what little we know and NOT make that assumption.

From the only explicit relationship described (Brad/Jennifer) and the clever naming scheme that was used, that brad and jennifer's relationship will be protrayed in order to examine and deconstruct the very stereotypes and images that such a couple evokes.

as such, i find banana's 'synopsis' of the film based on nothing more than pure speculation to be a knee-jerk reaction.

[kasia]

Call my reaction what you wish, but let's just take a look at the demographics and ponder ...

White Males - 12
White Females - 2

Asian Males - 7
Asian Females - 5

Mixed Asian/White Female - 1

Looks like the film will be a doozy that represents everything America has come to expect of Asian representation ...

i'm sorry, but isn't that the first thing that an APA eye, trained or otherwise, would look at? sure the description of the film says that it will go beyond typical IR films and explain the true complexity of IR relationships. but of course it's going to say that. i think the demographics of the cast speaks for itself. and i hate to be condescending but, duh.

also, this is supposed to be a film about asians, but they only want people from downtown, sherman oaks, torrance and santa monica...?? i suppose they'll get asians from torrance, but why wouldn't they want asians from koreatown, chinatown, and the san gabriel valley?? santa monica is notorious for IR relationships - mostly WM/AF.

[moJo]

it looks like it will be a pseudo-documentary (interviewer, professor). why not make a real documentary?

[applehead]

it's sooooooo painfully obvious how this film
is going to portray IR relationships involving asians.
gimme a break.

especially when they go out of their way to
inform us otherwise.

GARY – White Male, 30 - 40, Clean cut, Patron in bar.

DIANE – Asian Female, 25 - 35, Attractive, Patron in bar.

BARTENDER – White Male, 30’s – 40’s, Clean cut.

bartender and cutomer fighting over the young asian
woman.
how. typical.


NOTE: SDF encourages Asians within the entire “Asian population” to become involved –east Asian and south Asian, Pacific Islanders, nationals and American. For convenience, “Asian” is used below as a descriptive in this general sense.

but ONLY if you live within this area:

Please, LA residents ONLY, preferably within the geographic area from downtown on the east, to Sherman Oaks on the north, to Santa Monica on the West, to Torrance on the South.

this is "audition" is laughable at best.
it's not even insulting.

also, this is supposed to be a film about asians, but they only want people from downtown, sherman oaks, torrance and santa monica...?? i suppose they'll get asians from torrance, but why wouldn't they want asians from koreatown, chinatown, and the san gabriel valley?? santa monica is notorious for IR relationships - mostly WM/AF.

exactly and why is asian population in quotes?
what does that mean?

[kasia]

exactly and why is asian population in quotes?
what does that mean?

i don't know. let's ask "sdfilms".

[applehead]

so NOT funny.

[kimpossible]

If anyone from sdfilms is interested in answering, I would be interested in hearing more about the movie's premise. It says the complexities of IR relationships will be explored: can you expand on that? Is it intended to be a parody or debunk stereotypes?

[applehead]

great idea kim!

i've emailed sdfilms to come and join in our discussion
here. unfortunately their PM option was turned off
but i guess e-mail is better.

[Banana]

as such, i find banana's 'synopsis' of the film based on nothing more than pure speculation to be a knee-jerk reaction.

Two quotes that I feel applies itself to this topic.

Regarding my skepticism about this project on Asian/White dating and how they're portrayed in the media:

"Trick me once, shame on you. Trick me twice, shame on me."

Regarding how we should just "take" whatever roles they dish out at us in an attempt to show Asian faces in the media:

"It tastes like shit but you can live off of it."

I'm not interested in being fair nor am I imclined to give people any credit when they deserve none. It's not like my pessimism is unwarrented. Given how these stories normally pan out, I'm to expect the same tired and overdone scenes over and over again. If someone lies to me 15 times, what makes any rational person think I'm going to believe this person the 16th time?

[ChineseTourist]

it's to legitimize and promote their fantasy

obvious.

what is their fantasy? to become "winnars". because right now they are losers. it's to celebrate their selfish neediness jealousy pettiness and racism

[kimpossible]

it's to legitimize and promote their fantasy

obvious.

what is their fantasy? to become "winnars". because right now they are losers. it's to celebrate their selfish neediness jealousy pettiness and racism

I want to clarify if sd is willing to come by and talk about the movie premise with us, me, whoever. Before we string him up by the nuts and leave him for the crows we should at least hear out what the vision and point is. Even if it's something that I disagree with I'll feel more empowered if I know what's being promoted or thought of as a plot or point of discussion. As the child of WM/AF parents and grandparents that is publicly seen as a white female with an Asian male, I have a vested interest in knowing what's going into this film. Especially if it will be playing at large to my peers in the Asian American community.

[ChineseTourist]

Kitty,
how do you know they have good intentions? in fact, it would not be foolhardy to bet that they do not.

secondly, we cannot sacrifice too much just hoping for advancement. Our advancement cannot be left in the hands of other people, especially those who are potentially and probably our enemies.

this is foolhardy and is what sellouts and unfortunate weak pioneers have fallen into. there is the financial incentive for those poor starving actors to be sure, but that is the literal definition of selling out now, is it not. lol

also, just cuz 1 set has good intentions in charge, does not change the fact that 20 others do not

paranoia? IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING

if you want to be a star, make your way. why hope to be noticed, by racist ignorant arrogant people who aren't all that and have no right to put on airs? EXCEPT PEOPLE LIKE "YOU" (figuratively speaking) worship them and kowtow to them as the gateway to the future. you give them the power - why? they are not wise, and they don't know any better - AND they are your enemies

[pikachupacabra]

While I'm also very dubious, I would have to agree with Kim's sentiment that until we know what's actually going on in this film, it's pretty difficult to draw conclusions and pass judgement. That said, banana has a good point as well, and if the last 9 films with similar themes fell on one side of the fence, whos to say this one will go the other way?

And what is the real purpose of having asians coming only from certain areas of LA? That seems ridiculous to me; if they were really interested in having sincere actors and actresses, then their background (besides being asian) should not be important. If they can play the part, then they can play the part, who cares if their area code is 909 instead of 310. If anything, that seems the most telling to me that there's something afoot; as if the producers want a certain kind of asian LOOK, rather than a certain kind of asian ACTOR.

[moJo]

And what is the real purpose of having asians coming only from certain areas of LA? That seems ridiculous to me; if they were really interested in having sincere actors and actresses, then their background (besides being asian) should not be important. If they can play the part, then they can play the part, who cares if their area code is 909 instead of 310. If anything, that seems the most telling to me that there's something afoot; as if the producers want a certain kind of asian LOOK, rather than a certain kind of asian ACTOR.
good point. i was thinking that 'sdfilms' is filming in this particular area, and they wanted to keep it as simple (and cheap) as possible by wanting actors in the same area. you know southern california traffic!

[AliBabaIncorporated]

If they can play the part, then they can play the part, who cares if their area code is 909 instead of 310. If anything, that seems the most telling to me that there's something afoot; as if the producers want a certain kind of asian LOOK, rather than a certain kind of asian ACTOR.
Either that, or people from particular socioeconomic status? Don't know enough about the geographic distribution of income in LA to back this idea up ...

[kimpossible]

I still want more representation of Asian American females with Asian American males in a regular relationship with regular ups and downs. I don't get the whole balance the number of AF/WM couples with AM/WF couples thing. Or if it's really going to be about Asians in interracial relationships, don't limit it to white only.

I'd like to amend this statement and apologize to the GLBT members. It was very heterocentric of me. Point though is I'd like to see AA-AA relationships, I'm not too concerned if it's straight, gay or just friends.

[moJo]

Either that, or people from particular socioeconomic status? Don't know enough about the geographic distribution of income in LA to back this idea up ...
native LA-ers correct me if i'm wrong, but it's basically west LA, which ranges from comfortably well-off to obsenely wealthy (think bev hills, bel air, malibu). excludes ritzy coastal Orange County, though. but maybe they only want 'real' LA people.

[deez nuts]

if i had the money and experience, i would open up an agency for asian female actresses. i think it'll do well cuz asian women are such a hot commodity in the entertainment market now. yes, i will whore you women out for a quick buck. applaud me.

[Banana]

Per respect to the forums, I suggest you post your opinions on the thread already started.

[yoMAMA]

if i had the money and experience, i would open up an agency for asian female actresses. i think it'll do well cuz asian women are such a hot commodity in the entertainment market now. yes, i will whore you women out for a quick buck. applaud me.

or you can produce an asian medical show......

CSB M.D

I tell ya....the ratings are going to the roof......

:tongue:

[kitty]

also, this is supposed to be a film about asians, but they only want people from downtown, sherman oaks, torrance and santa monica...?? i suppose they'll get asians from torrance, but why wouldn't they want asians from koreatown, chinatown, and the san gabriel valley?? santa monica is notorious for IR relationships - mostly WM/AF.

maybe i'm being dumb here, but... this is a non-SAG, non-paying film. with a multi-day shoot, you'd want people who would be always available from a local area for possible callbacks or reshoots.

this is probably a very low-budget possibly indie or even student film with an undefined shooting schedule or at least one in which the producer/director wants the actors available at a very short notice...?

[applehead]

maybe i'm being dumb here, but... this is a non-SAG, non-paying film. with a multi-day shoot, you'd want people who would be always available from a local area for possible callbacks or reshoots.

this is probably a very low-budget possibly indie or even student film with an undefined shooting schedule or at least one in which the producer/director wants the actors available at a very short notice...?

that makes sense.

i guess even if an actor from ny gets the role
and travels to LA for a couple of days for a shoot.
i don't know how willing he would be to go back
again and again if needed.

[kitty]

GARY – White Male, 30 - 40, Clean cut, Patron in bar.

DIANE – Asian Female, 25 - 35, Attractive, Patron in bar.

BARTENDER – White Male, 30’s – 40’s, Clean cut.


bartender and cutomer fighting over the young asian
woman.
how. typical.


We really don't know that. For all we know, the bartender is a nonsexualized part. The man and the woman are meeting to talk. The man hits on the woman. The woman walks away. Those descriptors are descriptors for the character, but they don't necessarily imply much about what the characters will be doing.

We really have no idea from those descriptors what's going to happen. I'd be curious to read the premise/script... but otherwise I don't want to assume the worst...

Sure it might, but until there's definitive proof that it will, I say give sdfilms a break. Some might call it naiive, I would say that I'd rather not YW start getting the MM rep and chomping any n00b who wanders into our community, especially if it ends up being unwarranted.

threads split and merged.

[applehead]

Sure it might, but until there's definitive proof that it will, I say give sdfilms a break. Some might call it naiive, I would say that I'd rather not YW start getting the MM rep and chomping any n00b who wanders into our community, especially if it ends up being unwarranted.

well. i don't know what MM is about
or what kind of rep they have but
you're very correct about giving sdfilms a break.

[pikachupacabra]

well. i don't know what MM is about
or what kind of rep they have but
you're very correct about giving sdfilms a break.


MM is not a good place to be apple. I don't know how anyone can have a civilized discussion there.


A:"hey did you see the new matrix movie?"
B:"no I didn't but..."
A:"OMG YOUS R SUCH TEH ASIAPHILE BASTARD DICK COCK YELLOW FETISH"
B:"hey I was just saying..."
A:"Oh don't give me that crap. Asian women should only date asian men. You're only half asian so your opinion doesn't count anyways"
B:"I thought we were talking about the matri..."
A:"Don't try to change the subject. Fucking Asiaphile".



Anyways, like I said before...until we know more about the film, I'm not going to pass any judgement, but you won't find me looking shocked and surprised if the APA community gets burned in the end.

[mrazntre]

good point. i was thinking that 'sdfilms' is filming in this particular area, and they wanted to keep it as simple (and cheap) as possible by wanting actors in the same area. you know southern california traffic!

that'll be the day...


since sherman oaks is approx. 20 miles away from downtown and 35 miles from torrance. downtown is about 25 miles from torrance. and if you know southern california traffic, you're talking about the 101/405/110/10 freeways. I drive these freeways on a consistent basis and there's no way in hell by choosing these areas would you be traffic friendly.

Let's investigate Sherman Oaks - I went to middle school on the fringe of Sherman Oaks and Van Nuys. When the hispanic girls would get down with the white girls, they'd call 'em "white sherman oaks bitches." There was definitely a struggle between classes, since most of sherman oaks consists of whites, Jews and not much else. Hmm.. asians from sherman oaks. Got white wash?

Torrance - lot's of Asians there. We have chinese, japanese and koreans in abundance in that area so I wonder if these will be the Asians with the "asian look." Maybe those ones will be the authentic asians. OR as fate may have it, Torrance was a huge settling area for Japanese Americans as far as I can remember. And we all know that the Japanese have been here for 5-6 generations, which allows them more time to have been assimilated into "American Culture." BTW, although she's not Japanese, Michelle Kwan is from Torrance...and yes, I'm insinuating something.

Dowtown - There's a huge japanese population in downtown. You could also include chinatown since it's set right against downtown. Most of the japanese in this area come from the homeland, these must be the "really authentic asians, with an asian look."

I've lived in and around LA for a pretty long time (my whole life) so I'm more or less aware of the general demographics of any given area.

[Banana]

Just the fact that Asian males have been burned before quite often, it gives me automatic rights to pass judgment.

[mrazntre]

We really don't know that. For all we know, the bartender is a nonsexualized part. The man and the woman are meeting to talk. The man hits on the woman. The woman walks away. Those descriptors are descriptors for the character, but they don't necessarily imply much about what the characters will be doing.

We really have no idea from those descriptors what's going to happen. I'd be curious to read the premise/script... but otherwise I don't want to assume the worst...

Sure it might, but until there's definitive proof that it will, I say give sdfilms a break. Some might call it naiive, I would say that I'd rather not YW start getting the MM rep and chomping any n00b who wanders into our community, especially if it ends up being unwarranted.

threads split and merged.


Is there any definitive proof that it's not? We're not getting any type of rebuttal from sdfilms so whatever our problem might be, it comes from the increasingly obvious intent of their movie. And it's outrageous for you to think that everything is just moving along merrily. There must be a reaction because that's what we as APIA's have been lacking, a response. We do have a voice and it's not going to be muted just because we feel like we have to give everyone a chance when it's apparent that we're just being marginalized again. How many times does this need to happen before EVERYONE understands that we don't have to be cautious about hurting feelings.

I think it's abhorrent to say that we're getting a MM rep since we're NOT putting sdfilms on blast because he's not asian or half or whatever. It's all about the intent of the film that's been made obvious to us. Read our logo, this is cultivation for an asian consciousness, and whether or not it's right or wrong, a reaction must be given in order to bring voice to our collective struggle. Nobody said anything about n00b bashing and history has proven that we're cordial to all newcomers, as long as you're not a dumbass.

Just the fact that Asian males have been burned before quite often, it gives me automatic rights to pass judgment.

perhaps she doesn't understand because she's a she and not a he? as asian males, this is something that we've heard our WHOLE lives, females have not been subjected to this since they've been portrayed in an accepted role as 'exotic, easily controlled, quiet, submissive house slaves.' And for the most part, it's okay with them. It's unfortunate, but this is how many women think, especially older women who have taken caucasian husbands after leaving their same-ethnicity husbands. Many of these woman feel like they're better than the rest of their friends cuz they snatched a white man.

[Meki]

perhaps she doesn't understand because she's a she and not a he? as asian males, this is something that we've heard our WHOLE lives, females have not been subjected to this since they've been portrayed in an accepted role as 'exotic, easily controlled, quiet, submissive house slaves.' And for the most part, it's okay with them. It's unfortunate, but this is how many women think, especially older women who have taken caucasian husbands after leaving their same-ethnicity husbands. Many of these woman feel like they're better than the rest of their friends cuz they snatched a white man.

Ok I don't know if you're joking or not but why did this subject even come up? I for one certainly don't appreciate how most Asian women are portrayed in the media. And although I greatly sympathize with how Asian men are portrayed in the media, I don't think it's fair to make these broad generalizations of Asian women. We as Asian women also have our constant struggles so to take away from that to make your point about Asian men in the media seems to be hypocritical...

[SunWuKong]

a movie about interracial relationships featuring an Asian woman paired with a white man can be described in one word - cliché.

[mrazntre]

touche

[SunWuKong]

and another thing, one thing that many movies with interracial relationships involving an Asian person usually bring up is that the Asian person in the IR relationship is "not traditional" and so being in an IR relationship allows him/her to escape being "traditional".

this is also cliché. not only that, it never made any logical sense to me.

[kimpossible]

I didn't thoroughly read the last few posts but the purpose for creating a dedicated thread for this was three-fold.

1. My original question is the same: If someone from sdfilms would expand on the stated premise of the movie and the purpose of using only white-Asian relationships, it would clear up some perceptions I have.

2. There was enough of a vocal reaction from a multitude of YW members that was building up in the Casting Call thread that didn't belong there.

3. The topic merited a thread in its own right.

We have years and years and years of these movies and relationship portrayals to examine and discuss. The topic is bigger than one movie.

[kasia]

maybe i'm being dumb here, but... this is a non-SAG, non-paying film. with a multi-day shoot, you'd want people who would be always available from a local area for possible callbacks or reshoots.

so? sherman oaks is no closer to downtown than ktown, chinatown, little tokyo, and monterey park. certainly, santa monica is not closer to hollywood than those places.

[DragonKnight]

Anyone got any information about SD Films itself?

[golden_buns]

or you can produce an asian medical show......

CSB M.D

I tell ya....the ratings are going to the roof......

:tongue:
Yeah, if he's a gyno


this is probably a very low-budget possibly indie or even student film with an undefined shooting schedule or at least one in which the producer/director wants the actors available at a very short notice...?

Exactly, sounds like it. And I doubt many people will see this thing, so why get worked up over it

[ChineseTourist]

if we were forced into placing bets, would yall bet that it is innocuous or that it is insidious?

i know i sure as hell intend to make money

[sdfilms]

Dear Sisters and Brothers,

We appreciate all the spirited discussion regarding our upcoming film project. It is a culmination of over 3 years of extensive research into the inner workings that are the catalysts of interracial relationships involving Asians in North America.

Ask yourselves, why is it that when nothing is known about our film except that it deals with interracial relationships involving Asians, that such heated discussion ensues? The fact that it is such an emotionally debated topic within the APA community indicates to us that it cannot be ignored. We feel it is long overdue and high time that this subject be tackled with the type of vigor that we feel it deserves.

Our only wish is that you respect our desire to keep the exact synopsis of the film confidential until it's ready for release. We openly encourage continued discussion on the subject itself because it ignites such controversy as well as passion and pride within our community. With that, we wholly appreciate and acknowledge your interest and support for a film of this nature.

Judging by the reaction from our online communities, we've made the decision to drop by on an occasional basis to provide updates. You Sisters and Brothers on Yellowworld have definitely caught our attention; thus, we promise to deliver a work that is both groundbreaking and unprecedented in North America as it relates directly to us: Asians.

SD Films
"Bronze Filmmakers with a Slant"

[golden_buns]

It is a culmination of over 3 years of extensive research into the inner workings that are the catalysts of interracial relationships involving Asians in North America.


I'm wondering who is your target audience? Will it be us asian-americans or mainstream America?

[SunWuKong]

Ask yourselves, why is it that when nothing is known about our film except that it deals with interracial relationships involving Asians, that such heated discussion ensues? The fact that it is such an emotionally debated topic within the APA community indicates to us that it cannot be ignored. We feel it is long overdue and high time that this subject be tackled with the type of vigor that we feel it deserves.

you got it all wrong. it wasn't the subject of interracial relationships that created a heated discussion. it was the subject of possibly yet another movie which features an Asian woman/white man pairing. that was what the discussion was about.

[golden_buns]

possibly yet another movie which features an Asian woman/white man pairing. that was what the discussion was about.
Yeah, cuz if you're trying to bring that into light, I think it's something that has been shown over and over and over and over

[mrazntre]

and another thing, one thing that many movies with interracial relationships involving an Asian person usually bring up is that the Asian person in the IR relationship is "not traditional" and so being in an IR relationship allows him/her to escape being "traditional".

this is also cliché. not only that, it never made any logical sense to me.

and on top of that, the non-traditional asian person usually resents their upbringing/ethnicity, which thrusts them onto the stage of self denial and self hate. But for some reason, only we see it. The other side sees it as 'liberating, the American way, assimilation, blah blah blah.'

Exactly, sounds like it. And I doubt many people will see this thing, so why get worked up over it

Too bad those geographic locations are kinda far from each other. There are PLENTY of other areas where there are an abundant supply of many groups of asians that are within 30minutes.

If the shoot was to be in Santa Monica, you don't need to go anywhere else. There's a lot of Japanese in that area and in West LA, which is like 15 minutes away.

You really need to read my geographic Los Angeles guide that I posted on the previous page. I'm not sure if you've been to LA, but traffic is horrendous and if you're not right next to a location, just forget it. During rush hour, it'll take you about 2.5+ hours from sherman oaks to torrance. It takes about an hour without any traffic. From sherman oaks to downtown will take anywhere from 1 hour to 1.5 hours in traffic. No traffic = 20 minutes.

Why get worked over it?

Should we let something like this slide? It's like littering, a single small candy wrapper isn't going to make a city trashy, but imagine what happens over the period of 1 year of littering. The city will be a dump. This is the exact same sort of situation. Just for the reason that someone will see it, is good enough reason.

Single minor events have shaped history. you never know when it might happen.

[mrazntre]

Us Asians?

So is SDFilms a conglomerate of Asian-only producers, writers, directors, engineers and technicians that are fed up with the system ?

[Banana]

I already laid out the groundwork which was required for me to cease and desist any type of hostile banter towards your film. Since you were not even able to shed any light at all on said film, I will proceed accordingly.

By the way, your response needs work. Simply telling me that it's a topic that needs to be discussed as the sole reason for this project is like telling someone to take his pants off when he farts.

It's not necessary.

[pretense78]

I didn't thoroughly read the last few posts but the purpose for creating a dedicated thread for this was three-fold.

1. My original question is the same: If someone from sdfilms would expand on the stated premise of the movie and the purpose of using only white-Asian relationships, it would clear up some perceptions I have.

2. There was enough of a vocal reaction from a multitude of YW members that was building up in the Casting Call thread that didn't belong there.

3. The topic merited a thread in its own right.

We have years and years and years of these movies and relationship portrayals to examine and discuss. The topic is bigger than one movie.

I've been reading through some of the thread, and your number 1 statement above is kind of what I had issue with as well...the movie is supposedly focusing on Asian IR relationships, as the poster mentioned, but the only IR relationships seem to be with whites. Pairing a black girl with an asian guy would be way edgier in a flick to me, or toss in a mexican or two and see how the families react, as we've all seen how white and asian families react to each other pretty much.

[Faithless]

The only thing about confidentiality is that this is an open forum to the world.
.
Ask yourselves, why is it that when nothing is known about our film except that it deals with interracial relationships involving Asians, that such heated discussion ensues? The fact that it is such an emotionally debated topic within the APA community indicates to us that it cannot be ignored. We feel it is long overdue and high time that this subject be tackled with the type of vigor that we feel it deserves.
Well, it may not be about Asians, but I thought Jungle Fever already broached a certain controversy around IR.

What more needs to be said?

[kimpossible]

Ask yourselves, why is it that when nothing is known about our film except that it deals with interracial relationships involving Asians, that such heated discussion ensues?

While I do appreciate you taking the time to make a statement in response to the further questions and not react solely to the criticism, my original concerns are still in place and haven't been addressed. I do realize that it's your film and you shouldn't have to reveal what you don't want to. But in reading your response I believe you really do not understand what the controversy stems from.

Asian-White relationships shouldn't be synonymous with interracial relationships for Asians. I don't think that's a fair representation of interracial relationships for Asian Americans. To do so squarely defines Asians in relation to whites and refuses to acknowledge any other IR Asian pairing.

Asian-White pairings themselves are hardly controversial or unchartered area. They're used in such mainstream images as department store ads.

Instead of exploring the multitude of IR relationships for Asians, which in real life includes all other races, I get the idea that the 'balance' in this film will be pairing Asian males with white women to even out the pairings of Asian females with white males.

In total, I have a concern that this film will play better to whites than it would Asians. I'm white-Asian, most of my family is white-Asian, as a married woman I'm part of a white-Asian relationship. I am not excited about the possibilities of this film premise, quite the contrary. I feel the focus is unwarranted and somewhat deceptive that it's labeled as exploratory of interracial relationships when it focuses only on white-Asian ones.

However, I'm running on little information since I have no more than it's about whites and Asians dating. Here's to hoping it's not what we think or fear it will be.

[asvenus]

well said kim...

[Shuriken]

A statement in general:

I remember when Alan Parker released his film Come See the Paradise back in 1990. The movie was ostensibly about the Japanese American internment, but — of course — Parker chose to approach the subject of the internment (the first time the topic had been prominently portrayed on the big screen) through an interracial white-male/Asian-female romance. If Parker had created a truly compelling interracial romance (he was also the film's writer), I would cut him some slack.

But the problem was that with so many intriguing subplots — the character development of a No-No Boy, a prosperous Japanese immigrant father suddenly being rendered useless to his community, a Japanese American soldier dying for the freedoms denied to his family at home — the main story of the interracial romance was the least interesting aspect of the film. Parker defended Come See the Paradises's emphasis on the romance by saying that interracial love stories on the big screen were "new" and therefore interesting. Not only did his statement entirely overlook the long tradition of WM/AF in the movies from Sayonara on down, but the year before Come See the Paradise was released, Domino's Pizza had already aired a commercial featuring a WM/AF marriage.

Also, when Wayne Wang was defending his own film about a WM/AF romance, Chinese Box (1998), he remarked that few movies had previously tackled the subject. To this, Yolk magazine responded: "Sure must be isolated in Wayne's world."

[mrazntre]

shuriken: what's your opinion?

In regards to the description you've given in Come See the Paradise, although it was the least interesting part of the film, it still was present and it does provide justification, no matter the percent contribution. Sometimes it appears as if certain portions of movies are downplayed in light of more interesting subplots, but the fact of the matter is that if all of those other twists and turns were so intriguing, then the least intriguing aspect need not be present in order to make a successful film. If it wasn't an issue to begin with, then why would it be made into one?

There was also a lot of other socioeconomic role reversals in the world during this time with the emergence of Japan as an economic superpower (along with the bubble bursting), which led to the preeminence of "japan bashing." American lifestyle was quickly being submerged into a Japanese dominated technological world and their was plenty fear, resentment and hostility directed towards the possibility that the US was going to fall from the world's pedestal. All of these things (and to bring up a Japan Bashing movie that relayed the fears of the white Americans, Rising Sun) lead to the inferiority complex of American society. Japanese businessmen were buying up American real estate like crazy, tourists were spending money like water and the US auto industry was really in the doldrums. I believe that these forces lead to some misguided form of American nationalism, which was more exhibitive of crude racism. All of these forces and attitudes act upon each other and are directly translated into the themes of movies. Good or bad.

[Shuriken]

shuriken: what's your opinion?

In regards to the description you've given in Come See the Paradise, although it was the least interesting part of the film, it still was present and it does provide justification, no matter the percent contribution. Sometimes it appears as if certain portions of movies are downplayed in light of more interesting subplots, but the fact of the matter is that if all of those other twists and turns were so intriguing, then the least intriguing aspect need not be present in order to make a successful film. If it wasn't an issue to begin with, then why would it be made into one?

I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying here.

There was also a lot of other socioeconomic role reversals in the world during this time with the emergence of Japan as an economic superpower (along with the bubble bursting), which led to the preeminence of "japan bashing." American lifestyle was quickly being submerged into a Japanese dominated technological world and their was plenty fear, resentment and hostility directed towards the possibility that the US was going to fall from the world's pedestal. All of these things (and to bring up a Japan Bashing movie that relayed the fears of the white Americans, Rising Sun) lead to the inferiority complex of American society. Japanese businessmen were buying up American real estate like crazy, tourists were spending money like water and the US auto industry was really in the doldrums. I believe that these forces lead to some misguided form of American nationalism, which was more exhibitive of crude racism. All of these forces and attitudes act upon each other and are directly translated into the themes of movies. Good or bad.

I'm also not sure that I understand this passage entirely. Are you talking about World War II or the last two decades of the 20th century?

As far as Rising Sun goes, my main concern with the film (and novel) wasn't necessarily its negative view of Japanese business practices ("Japan bashing" is a particularly unhelpful phrase), but that it raised some very legitimate concerns about such practices within the questionable context of a murder mystery — a mystery which insinuates that Asian people get ahead in the U.S. by murdering white Americans (or having them murdered). If Michael Crichton, the novel's author, had found another way to contextualize his concerns, I might not have any qualms.

But (if I understand your post correctly), yes, I agree that multiple historical forces act to create a particular creative work.

[mrazntre]

I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying here.
1) Simply put. If that part of the IR was so unintriguing, then it really didn't need to be in the movie, right?

2) No. I'm talking only about the 1980s (more specifically the latter part of the decade) when 'Japan bashing' was at it's peak. Basically, those attitudes were relayed into American movies.



As far as Rising Sun goes, my main concern with the film (and novel) wasn't necessarily its negative view of Japanese business practices ("Japan bashing" is a particularly unhelpful phrase), but that it raised some very legitimate concerns about such practices within the questionable context of a murder mystery — a mystery which insinuates that Asian people get ahead in the U.S. by murdering white Americans (or having them murdered). If Michael Crichton, the novel's author, had found another way to contextualize his concerns, I might not have any qualms.

But (if I understand your post correctly), yes, I agree that multiple historical forces act to create a particular creative work.


Yeah, I think we're saying the same things in this particular context. The subtle plots as you've described are just a reaction to the attitudes prevalent during that time period. Those forces, motivated typically by economic reasons, brought to light the negative attitudes that Americans had/have towards the Japanese for "taking over," for lack of a better word.

And that just ties into the normative attitudes held by American society today with IR's that may or may not be racist. Whichever side of the coin this particular movie decides to portray will just be a reflection of social forces and attitudes that permeate society today. Unfortunately, for the most part, those attitudes are quite negative. That's the fear.

[SunWuKong]

Also, when Wayne Wang was defending his own film about a WM/AF romance, Chinese Box (1998), he remarked that few movies had previously tackled the subject. To this, Yolk magazine responded: "Sure must be isolated in Wayne's world."

that film was a lot more than just a film about a WM/AF romance. it was about the relationships between the UK, HK, and China, or more specifically, about British colonial rule in HK vs. Chinese rule. there really wasn't a doubt in my mind that Jeremy Iron's character represented the British presence in HK when at the end, he died.

[Shuriken]

1) Simply put. If that part of the IR was so unintriguing, then it really didn't need to be in the movie, right?

Right. I think that Come See the Paradise would have been a much more compelling film if Stan Egi's character, Charlie the No-No Boy, had been the lead and the movie had just omitted Dennis Quaid's character entirely. Of course, without a white lead, the film may have appeared to many white audiences as nothing more than guilt-tripping Caucasians ("Look at the injustice you caused, white man"). The complete perfunctoriness of the interracial romance struck me as Parker desperately trying to justify having a white lead. Come See the Paradise stands for me as a textbook example of the lengths to which Hollywood is willing to go to accommodate white leads where they aren't necessary.

Another thing that bothers me: Come See the Paradise opens in 1936, and Lily, the Tamlyn Tomita character, has a nine-year-old younger brother named Frankie. When the film ends, the year is 1945, and Frankie is still a nine-year-old boy. On top of that, the movie either kills off or exiles Lily's two adult-aged brothers. Talk about the infantilization of Asian men!

that film was a lot more than just a film about a WM/AF romance. it was about the relationships between the UK, HK, and China, or more specifically, about British colonial rule in HK vs. Chinese rule. there really wasn't a doubt in my mind that Jeremy Iron's character represented the British presence in HK when at the end, he died.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that a WM/AF pairing automatically ruins a movie. I'm just saying that Wang's defense of Chinese Box didn't make any sense. If he defended the film as a reply to The World of Suzie Wong, that would have been more logical. But to defend the film by saying that WM/AF relationships are underrepresented in the movies is just plain ridiculous.

For the record, Oliver Stone's Heaven & Earth (1993) and John Madden-David Henry Hwang's Golden Gate (1994) are also critical of their WM/AF romances.

If it were up to me, there would be a moritorium on WM/AF until the representation of Asian verility in the media is on a par with that of whites. But my deepest concern about WM/AF arises when the Asian female love interest's race seems to be an excuse for the writer not to develop her romance with the white hero. In Year of the Dragon, Ariane goes to bed with Mickey Rourke after he physically and verbally abuses her. In Come See the Paradise, Dennis Quaid kisses Tamlyn Tomita about ten minutes after meeting her. In The Lost Empire, Bai Ling tries to kiss Thomas Gibson on their first meeting. This leaves the impression that Asian women are easy to pick up, and that white men are more desirable and desirable because of their race. It's this kind of corner-cutting that really annoys me.

[DragonKnight]

SD Films,

Thank you first off for actually coming here with a statement and purpose (whatever that may be). Now, do you have any contact information and a detailed description on what your company is all about? Also, who exactly is doing the posting for your 'sdfilms' screenname?

[Faithless]

SD Films,

Thank you first off for actually coming here with a statement and purpose (whatever that may be). Now, do you have any contact information and a detailed description on what your company is all about? Also, who exactly is doing the posting for your 'sdfilms' screenname?
Well, there is a "Scott Dittrich" who has been "specializing in nature and sports for television, commercials, features and corporate videos."

Probably more famous for his skateboarding videos (http://www.pacwave.net/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=223319&cat=171&) .

[sdfilms]

For contact info, see our original post here: "LA Casting Call"

[mrazntre]

Of course, without a white lead, the film may have appeared to many white audiences as nothing more than guilt-tripping Caucasians ("Look at the injustice you caused, white man").

I don't see that as a problem. :biggrin:

[kitty]

just to let you guys know:

i believe SD Films is trying to work within the Asian community. i.e., i believe they are Asian, so this isn't some white male fantasy happening.

They also said in an email to me that they are trying to do an in-depth discussion, abbreviated to fit the medium of film. That means you pick a small scope and discuss the hell out of it rather than try to do some checkerboard thing to appease the PC gods.

The film must be under 2 hours in length to get anyone to sit through it. which means that if you want to focus on a specific aspect of IR relationships within the Asian community, you might have to choose white/asian and stick to that to get any real sort of serious discussion within the film.

if you were to include relationships with blacks/latinos, you would have to make a much longer movie to do it justice.

oh, and the film is due to be released this winterm and once it's done, the writer/director says that he's more than happy to answer questions. don't let the geography fool you, it's a writer/director and his production partner who make up SD films. it's low budget, and very indie. this isn't about making money as chinese tourist put it.

Anyone got any information about SD Films itself?

you can email them at sdfilms@gmail.com

they're very open to discussion within reason. the other thing that needs to be addressed is that they can't give away the whole movie before they make it to a bunch of people on an online forum.

a) the movie isn't done. the vast majority of a film is built in editing, so they don't even really know how the final product will look.

b) there're creative issues. would you write a five hundred page manuscript and then post it on the internet before you send it to a publishing house? not if you were afraid of people stealing it or you undermining your own marketing campaign. that's why music artists don't post mp3's on the internet before their albums come out.

a movie about interracial relationships featuring an Asian woman paired with a white man can be described in one word - cliché.

agreed, but they aren't necessarily the focus of the film. from the casting call, we have no idea what will happen in the movie. i'm willing to say i might be wrong about my assumptions of what this film is about, but i'm not going to jump the gun and assume that the only relationship explicitly described in the notice is the tone of the film.

if you want to take down stereotypes of wm/af relationships, you might need to start by showing one on film.

[Shuriken]

I don't see that as a problem. :biggrin:

Hahahahaha!

The problem is that many white audiences would. And Hollywood needs to attract white audiences if its movies are to make any money — and thus fulfill their raison d'être. I'm not sure that Come See the Paradise ever shook its reputation as a guilt-trip of white people. As I recall the film made only about $1 million on theatrical release.

I once got what I thought was a good idea for an Asian American romantic comedy: an APA woman who only dates whites and an APA guy who only dates whites (both types are not uncommon in APA communities) end up falling for each other. But the more I thought of it, the more I realized that raising the very real issue of Asians who refuse to date Asians would probably make white audiences uncomfortable. And an ending where the couple give up their non-Asian obsession and get together might very well be interpreted by white viewers as an Asian rejection of the white community. In other words, the idea would likely offend a white audience and thus have trouble making any money.

[kitty]

threads merged.

all i gotta say is that the asian sweet sweetback would still be a mysoginist woman-hating disaster. this thread reminds me of the bamboozled quote 'like crabs in a barrel...'

[SunWuKong]

i suppose we'll have to wait and see. i just hope the people at sdfilms understand that the WM/AF relationship issue is not exactly new on film, and that they take a refreshing angle to explore it. for all we know, it could be a film that airs the same kind of criticism that some of us here have posed.

[DragonKnight]

For contact info, see our original post here: "LA Casting Call"
Heh, just checked it out. Funny enough, your location isn't too far away from my apartment.

[ChineseTourist]

who cares what white people think

[applehead]

Heh, just checked it out. Funny enough, your location isn't too far away from my apartment.

heh. you should go audition.

is anyone not at all surprised by their
vague explanation?
it doesn't give me any less reason to not
find their upcoming film suspect.

[mrazntre]

heh. you should go audition.

is anyone not at all surprised by their
vague explanation?
it doesn't give me any less reason to not
find their upcoming film suspect.

I'm not very surprised because I think that you're right.

It gives us MORE reason to suspect this film being what we've all thought from day 1.

[deez nuts]

YOSHI - Asian Male, 20's, Gay character.

who's going out for this role?

[mrazntre]

...might very well be interpreted by white viewers as an Asian rejection of the white community.

Like I said before, I have no problem with that.

If it was an offbeat movie widely supported in the minority population, I'm sure it would have done decently well.

[Banana]

Never going to happen since we're too quick to dismiss it as a small thing.

Proof was in the pudding when someone said they couldn't believe I was focusing so much on the AF/WM pairing in Hitch when it was for only five minutes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. If we don't even bother changing the small things, you're never going to change the big picture.

[mrazntre]

Never going to happen since we're too quick to dismiss it as a small thing.

Proof was in the pudding when someone said they couldn't believe I was focusing so much on the AF/WM pairing in Hitch when it was for only five minutes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. If we don't even bother changing the small things, you're never going to change the big picture.

You are absolutely 100% correct. I'd give you more karma, but I gotta spread it around first.

[deez nuts]

Never going to happen since we're too quick to dismiss it as a small thing.

Proof was in the pudding when someone said they couldn't believe I was focusing so much on the AF/WM pairing in Hitch when it was for only five minutes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. If we don't even bother changing the small things, you're never going to change the big picture.

good point

[yoMAMA]

Never going to happen since we're too quick to dismiss it as a small thing.

Proof was in the pudding when someone said they couldn't believe I was focusing so much on the AF/WM pairing in Hitch when it was for only five minutes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. If we don't even bother changing the small things, you're never going to change the big picture.

agreed.

[applehead]

Never going to happen since we're too quick to dismiss it as a small thing.

Proof was in the pudding when someone said they couldn't believe I was focusing so much on the AF/WM pairing in Hitch when it was for only five minutes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. If we don't even bother changing the small things, you're never going to change the big picture.

i also thought you were too hung up on that
short scene but now i understand why.
and you're very correct. :smile:

[Shuriken]

If it was an offbeat movie widely supported in the minority population, I'm sure it would have done decently well.

Better Luck Tomorrow made$3,802,390 on a production budget of $250,000. I guess that's respectable given the film's low production cost, but it's not the kind of numbers that make Hollywood sit up and take notice. :frown:

[golden_buns]

Better Luck Tomorrow made$3,802,390 on a production budget of $250,000. I guess that's respectable given the film's low production cost, but it's not the kind of numbers that make Hollywood sit up and take notice. :frown:
Wasn't the audience mostly asian americans though? I wanted to check out that movie but it never made outside the states

[SunWuKong]

Wasn't the audience mostly asian americans though? I wanted to check out that movie but it never made outside the states

you may be able to order it online.

[mrazntre]

Better Luck Tomorrow made$3,802,390 on a production budget of $250,000. I guess that's respectable given the film's low production cost, but it's not the kind of numbers that make Hollywood sit up and take notice. :frown:

at least they made more than.....

*cough* waterworld *cough*cough*

[kitty]

who cares what white people think

who's white?

[Banana]

Any update on that project by SDFilms?