Your Reputation and the Disguise Costume

[kasia]

Disguise, Inc.'s costume obviously plays on the stereotype as asian males. It's not novel that asian males are depicted as geeky and ASEXUAL.

do you view the costume as being a direct blow on your personal reputation? How little kids will view you as an asian male after seeing others wear the costume on Halloween? Will this costume turn your identity into a joke?

[angel nympho]

I think you guys are giving Disguise Inc. an awful lot of undeserved power over you, if this is the case. It's ridiculous to allow a bunch of retards like the people at Disguise Inc strip you of your identity and reputation. Don't give them the satisfaction.

[deez nuts]

Well the Asian male identity is already somewhat of a joke, it has gotten slightly better over the years. But, I feel it's all damage control and the reinvention of the Asian male image, now.

[kasia]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 13 2002, 09:41 PM
I think you guys are giving Disguise Inc. an awful lot of undeserved power over you, if this is the case. It's ridiculous to allow a bunch of retards like the people at Disguise Inc strip you of your identity and reputation. Don't give them the satisfaction.
the costume itself would not be hurting the reputation of males. it's the costume's representation of asian males to little kids that is most damaging. it reinforces a negative stereotype that probably already exists in the minds of a lot of non-asians.

i'm asking whether this hurts their reputation, not exactly how they feel about themselves per se, but how they think others will view them.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 13 2002, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 13 2002, 09:41 PM
I think you guys are giving Disguise Inc. an awful lot of undeserved power over you, if this is the case.  It's ridiculous to allow a bunch of retards like the people at Disguise Inc strip you of your identity and reputation.  Don't give them the satisfaction.
the costume itself would not be hurting the reputation of males. it's the costume's representation of asian males to little kids that is most damaging. it reinforces a negative stereotype that probably already exists in the minds of a lot of non-asians.

i'm asking whether this hurts their reputation, not exactly how they feel about themselves per se, but how they think others will view them.
We live in a racist society. Everybody who grew up in this racist society has a little bit of racist in them. The question is whether or not you choose to use your intelligence and your sense of humanity to break past those racist thoughts. There is nothing in the WORLD that will allow you to look into the mind of a White American and see the honest truth. So who's to know if they harbor stereotypes or not. The thing that matters the most is that they see that those thoughts are not valid, and regardless of the fact that they exist, that they choose not to follow them. So who cares if stereotypes exist. The thing people should focus on is making it seem irrational to act on them.

I like to believe that I live in a society that allows freedom of thought. I can think bad things about other races if I want to... but at least I know better than to think it's fair to treat them differently.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 13 2002, 04:42 PM
Well the Asian male identity is already somewhat of a joke, it has gotten slightly better over the years. But, I feel it's all damage control and the reinvention of the Asian male image, now.
agreed

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 13 2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 13 2002, 09:41 PM
I think you guys are giving Disguise Inc. an awful lot of undeserved power over you, if this is the case.  It's ridiculous to allow a bunch of retards like the people at Disguise Inc strip you of your identity and reputation.  Don't give them the satisfaction.
the costume itself would not be hurting the reputation of males. it's the costume's representation of asian males to little kids that is most damaging. it reinforces a negative stereotype that probably already exists in the minds of a lot of non-asians.

i'm asking whether this hurts their reputation, not exactly how they feel about themselves per se, but how they think others will view them.
actually i think jack chan's adventures more than balance out the costume with a positive image of asian men. :) (it airs everyday and it's a cartoon)

[optiontoo]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 13 2002, 09:41 PM
I think you guys are giving Disguise Inc. an awful lot of undeserved power over you, if this is the case. It's ridiculous to allow a bunch of retards like the people at Disguise Inc strip you of your identity and reputation. Don't give them the satisfaction.
I agree. I didn't sign the petition because I don't find the costume to particularly offensive. I'm not saying I like it, but I just can't justify the brain power to care enough.

[Uncle Tat]

I disagree SunWuKung.

When people see Jackie Chan, they think "wow cool guy that can kick ass and is a funny man." They don't think "wow that guy is a MAN, he's sexy and powerful."

Jackie Chan isn't giving a negative image, but he certainly isn't giving a positive one either.

[ChinaLama]

or even if jackie chan is a positive image, it's not a really STRONG masculine image. more like goofy guy w/ moves.

[Andrew]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 13 2002, 09:53 PM
the costume itself would not be hurting the reputation of males. it's the costume's representation of asian males to little kids that is most damaging. it reinforces a negative stereotype that probably already exists in the minds of a lot of non-asians.

i'm asking whether this hurts their reputation, not exactly how they feel about themselves per se, but how they think others will view them.
What I'm most worried about is little (probably white) kids "acting out" the character when they put on the costume. Just reminds me of too many traumatic playground incidents.

I remember a few years back I had an irrational sense of trepidation when I walked by a playground with a lot of white boys running around. Hopefully this feeling will go away by the time I have my own kids to bring to the playground.

[Andrew]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 13 2002, 10:18 PM
There is nothing in the WORLD that will allow you to look into the mind of a White American and see the honest truth.  So who's to know if they harbor stereotypes or not.
Racist motivations and intentions are usually hidden away in the private sphere, but the pervasiveness of racism on a society-wide basis is certainly visible at the interface between private choice and the public sphere. The private racial choices of millions of predominantly white viewers to watch TV shows and movies that stereotype Asians is made public by what the $500 billion entertainment industry produces. (I don't think Hollywood is run by a cabal of bigots -- they just want to produce what sells.) The private racial choice of women not to date Asian men is made public in personals ads in which everyone is seeking anything but an Asian man.

These society-wide phenomena demonstrate the pervasiveness of racism. At the same time, their public character provides opportunities for scrutiny, challenge, and reform. The ability of whites to hide private anti-Asian intentions does not require a response of agnosticism.



<!--EDIT|Andrew|Oct 16 2002, 07:59 AM-->

[Green_Circle]

That's why I signed and sent my own email also to these fools. I can't stand when people go into the kung fooey stance and hold their limp wristed hands out yelling yaaah! There ought to be a law! When will this crap ever cease??
:retard:

[Green_Circle]

"(I don't think Hollywood is run by a cabal of bigots -- they just want to produce what sells.) The private racial choice of women not to date Asian men is made public in personals ads in which everyone is seeking anything but an Asian man."

Andrew, I have a sneaky hunch that these people in Hollywood are racist to the core. It's been common belief that the bottom line dictates to hollywood what it wants to produce and dole out to the public. I believe they know exactly what they are fostering and perpetuating. It's in their interests to keep us down by fair means and fowl. The media is perhaps the most powerful tool to shape hearts and minds of people. I cannot believe what they say about giving the white public what it wants in terms of these racist stereotypical and demeaning pieces of crap they film.
To the average person who understands capitalism and the bottom line, it would seem that whatever the public wants should be given them. We all understand that. But I see exceptions. For starters, I just read a clip about Evergreen CO. and other parts of Colorado and Idaho not selling their homes to Asians (violating fed. laws). Ok now wheres the capitalist logic in that? Lots of Asians have the down payment and credit history (better than most whites) to make the purchase a done deal. If a white is selling and leaving the neighborhood, what does it matter who buys as long as the bottom line is met? I daresay that many of these Asians can and do outbid whites when it comes to home purchases. So there goes the bottom line theory. It's something other than money alone that motivates white folks to do the things they do.

[Green_Circle]

Andrew, the second half of your quote re personals choice and us asian males being the last on the list reiterates what I meant (and you know) about our not too sexy image formed by the racist media. It's understandable that when the public at large is bombarded with images of buffoon type characters. I can't blame those who don't know any better and even those who do. Sex and power play a huge role in defining our characters in these racist propoganda images that are supposed to be us. When one of our sisters brags about her white man, how many brag about their Asian man? Whether sister or not, we don't get the play. I guess what I 'm getting at is the things deemed imporatant are: looks, money, power, sex, youth in no particular order. BTW in that last Jackie Chan movie, even tho he was the buffoon, he still walked away with the prize; Jennifer Love Hewitt. It was a very powerful ending I must say. No sex or even a kiss but walking into the sunset arm in arm. If we had more images like those, then we would see the reaction in those personals you mentioned.

[Andrew]

Originally posted by Green_Circle@Oct 16 2002, 08:11 AM
Andrew, I have a sneaky hunch that these people in Hollywood are racist to the core. It's been common belief that the bottom line dictates to hollywood what it wants to produce and dole out to the public. I believe they know exactly what they are fostering and perpetuating. It's in their interests to keep us down by fair means and fowl. The media is perhaps the most powerful tool to shape hearts and minds of people. I cannot believe what they say about giving the white public what it wants in terms of these racist stereotypical and demeaning pieces of crap they film.
To the average person who understands capitalism and the bottom line, it would seem that whatever the public wants should be given them. We all understand that. But I see exceptions. For starters, I just read a clip about Evergreen CO. and other parts of Colorado and Idaho not selling their homes to Asians (violating fed. laws). Ok now wheres the capitalist logic in that? Lots of Asians have the down payment and credit history (better than most whites) to make the purchase a done deal. If a white is selling and leaving the neighborhood, what does it matter who buys as long as the bottom line is met? I daresay that many of these Asians can and do outbid whites when it comes to home purchases. So there goes the bottom line theory. It's something other than money alone that motivates white folks to do the things they do.
Then why is it that Rush Limbaugh's ilk are the most vociferous critics of Hollywood? To hear them talk, Hollywood is a haven for excessive political correctness. To support the hypothesis that Hollywood is massively more racist than the rest of the country, you have to come up with an explanatory theory that contradicts the more natural assumption that Hollywood is no more and no less racist than anywhere else in this country. There are plausible and familiar explanations for why the armed forces and country clubs might tend to have a higher prevalence of racism than the general population, but I haven't yet seen an account of why people who are interested in the creative and performing arts would tend to be more racist than the general population. In the absence of such an explanation, the more parsimonious explanation for the output of stereotypes by Hollywood is that there is a marketwide demand for them.

I don't know the details of the house sales situation, but market data and historical experience provide a simple economic explanation here too: too many nonwhites in a neighborhood depresses house values. If white clients vastly outnumber Asians in a community, a sales agent's interest in retaining whites may be sufficient to induce her to turn away bids from Asians.

[Craig]

Do you have any links for "why racism is more prevelant in the armed forces" ? I would be interested in discussing them with a relative of mine in the Navy.

[Andrew]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 16 2002, 09:42 AM
Do you have any links for "why racism is more prevelant in the armed forces" ? I would be interested in discussing them with a relative of mine in the Navy.
At the moment this (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=74)is the best I can come up with. I'll see if I can find more if I have time later in the week.

[Green_Circle]

"In the absence of such an explanation, the more parsimonious explanation for the output of stereotypes by Hollywood is that there is a marketwide demand for them."

Rush and his supporters are consrvatives and their views are anti PC. They may have a few points but their agenda is a lot different than those that control Hollywood. People in the arts are the rank and file worker bees. I'm talking about the true powers that be that control Hollywood and BTW they aren't in Hollywood but in New York. They have a responsibility to retain their tight control over Hollywood and their far reaching influence spans worldwide (in terms of propoganda) as pop American culture is one of our most influential exports. And I'm not just talking movies, I'm also including all the news networks. Such power is in the control of a vast network of new good ol boys, if you will. Lump in all the major newspapers and radio. Whereever you turn this octopus has full control.

As far as selling homes goes, you bring up an interesting point. We're all too familiar with these old tactics. These neighborhoods I mentioned were people from California who had left supposedly because there were too many nonwhites in Cali and wanted to keep their new neighborhoods 'pure'. However it wasn't only the agents involved but the homeowners themselves who were in collusion of selling to whites only. It seems to fly in the face of capitalism not to get the most bang out of your buck. Go figure.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Uncle Tat@Oct 16 2002, 12:27 AM
I disagree SunWuKung.

When people see Jackie Chan, they think "wow cool guy that can kick ass and is a funny man." They don't think "wow that guy is a MAN, he's sexy and powerful."

Jackie Chan isn't giving a negative image, but he certainly isn't giving a positive one either.
well, i was responding to kasia's post that the costume gives a negative image of asian men to little kids. i agree that jackie chan doesn't give out the image of an attractive male, but i was only talking about his cartoon and i think it gives a positive image of asian men to little kids.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Green_Circle@Oct 16 2002, 03:33 AM
BTW in that last Jackie Chan movie, even tho he was the buffoon, he still walked away with the prize; Jennifer Love Hewitt. It was a very powerful ending I must say. No sex or even a kiss but walking into the sunset arm in arm. If we had more images like those, then we would see the reaction in those personals you mentioned.
by the way, the no sex or no kiss is probably as much jackie's decision as the director's or producers'. jackie makes it a point to not play romantic portrayals, or do any sex or kissing scenes. and this is true even in his HK movies, with the possible exception of the movie Gorgeous, and even in that movie he did not kiss or have sex (at least as i recall).



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Oct 16 2002, 11:15 AM-->

[Green_Circle]

"by the way, the no sex or no kiss is probably as much jackie's decision as the director's or producers'. jackie makes it a point to not play romantic portrayals, or do any sex or kissing scenes. and this is true even in his HK movies, with the possible exception of the movie Gorgeous, and even in that movie he did not kiss or have sex (at least as i recall)."

This no-sex part that Jackie plays is actually a lot more beneficial to us asian males in terms of real payoffs. I just read an article in Cosmo or Elle (forgot which) about movie turn ons for males and females. Predictably we guys like the sex and skin and money shots but women however, liked the tenderness and quality time and treating her like a real, respectable human being. This was included in that Jackie Chan movie, all of the 'romantic' stuff for the ladies including dancing with her and being involved in weired situational stuff. Hey, if it works for them...... All we need do is sit back and wait for the dividends!

:rolleyes:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Green_Circle@Oct 16 2002, 03:51 PM
"by the way, the no sex or no kiss is probably as much jackie's decision as the director's or producers'. jackie makes it a point to not play romantic portrayals, or do any sex or kissing scenes. and this is true even in his HK movies, with the possible exception of the movie Gorgeous, and even in that movie he did not kiss or have sex (at least as i recall)."

This no-sex part that Jackie plays is actually a lot more beneficial to us asian males in terms of real payoffs. I just read an article in Cosmo or Elle (forgot which) about movie turn ons for males and females. Predictably we guys like the sex and skin and money shots but women however, liked the tenderness and quality time and treating her like a real, respectable human being. This was included in that Jackie Chan movie, all of the 'romantic' stuff for the ladies including dancing with her and being involved in weired situational stuff. Hey, if it works for them...... All we need do is sit back and wait for the dividends!

:rolleyes:
hmm... i guess that seems to make sense. but then again, the source of opinion is coming from Cosmo or Elle... :P i kind of find it difficult to believe that women wouldn't like to see alot of skin given that it's coming from a really good looking guy.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Andrew@Oct 16 2002, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 16 2002, 09:42 AM
Do you have any links for "why racism is more prevelant in the armed forces" ? &nbsp;I would be interested in discussing them with a relative of mine in the Navy.
At the moment this (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=74)is the best I can come up with. I'll see if I can find more if I have time later in the week.
IS racism more prevalent in the armed forces? Wow, I didn't know that. I've dated a few and I am friends with a lot of military guys... nobody ever mentioned having a problem.

[Arex]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 16 2002, 05:38 PM
IS racism more prevalent in the armed forces? Wow, I didn't know that. I've dated a few and I am friends with a lot of military guys... nobody ever mentioned having a problem.
Were these guys minorities? I don't know too many people in the armed forces, but I've heard that the people there can be really bad.

Alex

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Arex@Oct 17 2002, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 16 2002, 05:38 PM
IS racism more prevalent in the armed forces? &nbsp;Wow, I didn't know that. &nbsp;I've dated a few and I am friends with a lot of military guys... nobody ever mentioned having a problem.
Were these guys minorities? I don't know too many people in the armed forces, but I've heard that the people there can be really bad.

Alex
My boy is a white ex-marine, my ex-boy is a Vietnamese marine, my friend is a Filipino/Italian National Guard, my friend is Chinese in the Navy, my other friend is Chinese and an officer in the Army, another friend is white and in the Air Force, a few friends both white and minority in the Coast Guard, and a black guy in the marines. So yeah, they were a lot who were minorities.

[mrazntre]

I know that there was a huge problem amongst ganagsters in the military. There was a big publicity run in the media a few years ago where I think GI's (or mebbe marines, I don't remember) were capping on each other. Apparently it was a Crips/Bloods thing.