Giving help and god's word to Tsunami victims

[Faithless]

Talk about your captive audience.

Trying to give people Christianity when they really need nurishment and clothes, and stuff, seems wrong.

Victims don't need religion (http://www.dailyorange.com/news/2005/01/31/Opinion/Victims.Dont.Need.Religion-846144.shtml)
Published: 1/31/2005

In the days after the Dec. 26 tsunami in Southeast Asia, millions of dollars poured in from aid groups around the world. In addition to food and other supplies, some American volunteers are attempting to bring another form of "aid" to the area - Jesus. Members of the Antioch Community Church, an evangelical church based in Waco, Texas, have reportedly been working in a Sri Lankaan relief camp not only to help the sick, take care of orphaned children and donate food, but also to "bring" them to Christianity.

The church's Web site, www.antiochcc.com, includes a report from its relief efforts. The author writes, "As we build relationships, we are sharing God's love for them and praying for them as they have need." In response to a devastated fisherman, "I shared with him that the God who created him and the sea, loves him so much."

Some in the West, in the tradition of its hundreds of years of domination of the Rest, could hardly stop themselves from clapping their hands in glee at the opportunity to "help the poor tsunami victims." Translation: enlighten them to the inferiority of their culture and rescue them through religious conversion.

It is sick that in this huge time of need, in which the West could use its wealth and privilege in complete selflessness, these aid givers cannot resist playing missionary, using the Sri Lankaans' weakened state to their advantage.

The population of Sri Lanka is about 70 percent Buddhist,10 percent Hindu and 8 percent Christian, and most are most likely content with their faith. These people are capable of choosing their own religion, and could seek out Christianity if they should so desire. To use two of our dear president's favorite concepts, they should have the liberty and freedom to practice whatever faith they want.

But they are told by these western Christians-from Texas of all places-who know little of Sri Lankaan culture, history or lifestyle, "oh, by the way, your way of life and your faith aren't quite as great as Christianity, and you should give it all up to find Jesus."

Jesus is not what this group should be providing right now. The Antiochs should focus their attentions on what the victims need to recover, not what they THINK these people need. These groups should be coming with food, clean water, medicine and blankets, not a Western ideology. Enough with the cultural imperialism.

Should tsunami relief volunteers be allowed to spread Christianity? (http://www.newsreview.info/article/20050214/NEWS/102140056)
TRUTH OF YOUTH
February 14, 2005

"Individual people should have the right to talk to the victims about whatever they want, religion or not. These people are choosing to help; no one is making them or paying them to do it. They should not be told that they may not try to spread Christianity.

Although the first priority for all helpers should be to provide food and medical aid to the victims, there should be nothing stopping them from spreading their religion if they choose. It is inevitable.

If a Christian is truly passionate about their faith, all who interact with him or her will notice. They will see that there is a difference about this person because he or she has a faith to fall back on in times of crisis.

These people have every right to try to spread this joy with anyone who will listen, whether they are a tsunami victim or a co-worker."

Lacey Bitter, senior. Roseburg High School



"I hold the Bible to be God's written word, inherently accurate, and a guide by which I am to live my life. Matthew 28:19-20 is a command by Jesus Christ to go unto all the world and preach the gospel. Relief volunteers should most definitely be able to share God's word, especially in this great time of need when the people might be most receptive.

The truth of the Bible should be spread more avidly. Too many times in modern culture, the Bible is disregarded and defamed because of the hypocritical lifestyle of some Christians. What better way to share the infinite love of Christ than through disaster aid and outreach?"

Austin Clark, senior. Umpqua Valley Christian School



"I think if someone has something they want to share with someone else, then they can go ahead and share it. I don't think sharing one's beliefs or opinions about something is at all bad.

Even though the majority of the population over in the tsunami-hit areas is mostly Hindu and Muslim, I believe that the Christian relief workers should be able to have the opportunity to share their faith in Christ. If someone doesn't want to hear about Christianity, then they don't have to listen. But if certain people have open hearts to listen about God, then that is excellent for them.

I, personally, really want the whole world to hear of the Bible's message. I think that these tsunami relief workers are trying to reach out to those who haven't heard about God, and I really agree with the idea of sharing the message."

Lindsey Walrod, junior. Roseburg High School



"Well, I think it's certainly not a matter of shoving their religion down someone's throat; it is simply a matter of saving more lives toward Jesus Christ. No good Christian intends for people to feel like they're trying to push all their religious thoughts on anyone. So why this is such an issue, I don't know.

They are only doing a good deed and they're definitely not hurting anyone. If anything, they are comforting some of those tsunami survivors. Being a Christian myself, I know and I know quite well how my religion works. We do not intend to walk around cramming a Bible down someone's throat. (We are) simply spreading the word of the Gospel for those who are willing to lend the ear and help relieve some of them that are suffering from all the loss of their families. Christians are only trying to help."

Ashley Bryson, sophomore. Roseburg High School

[Emperor_Mike]

So long as aid is not contingent on taking up the Faith, I don't see anything wrong with it. People have free will and they can decide whether to accept God or not.

Now, if we're dealing with coercion of any sort, then it's despicable.

I suspect that most of these tsunami victims will likely give lip-service, smile, and forget about it.

[deez nuts]

i'm sure the muslims over at sumatra are gonna love this one.

i don't see anything wrong with it. aid don't always come in the form of charitable donations with no strings attached. is it opportunistic? you betcha. but, what can you do. is it morally wrong? i don't think so.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I see nothing wrong with it as long as 1) their intentions are sincere and 2) aid isn't contingent upon conversion.

[Faithless]

So long as aid is not contingent on taking up the Faith, I don't see anything wrong with it. People have free will and they can decide whether to accept God or not.
But it is "in their face". And in order to receive the aid, they have to let it infiltrate their listening space.

It just feels chauvenistic. They should save the sermons for church.
I suspect that most of these tsunami victims will likely give lip-service, smile, and forget about it.
I'm sure they will, too. Thank god.

[Emperor_Mike]

But it is "in their face". And in order to receive the aid, they have to let it infiltrate their listening space.

It just feels chauvenistic. They should save the sermons for church.

Oh, I think they'll do just fine. Besides, some may actually want to convert. The prospect of listening to religious spiel has never stopped me from inviting Mormons into my livingroom for their nifty pamphlets. They get to do their thing and I get new reading material to broaden my horizons on just how restrictive religion can be in the hands of zealots. Win-Win all the way. :biggrin:

The same will probably apply to the poor tsunami folks. I can just picture them sitting with a missionary and eating whilst listening to their companion drone on and on and on. There's really no harm in lending your ear, if only to satisfy another's need to express himself or herself.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

But it is "in their face". And in order to receive the aid, they have to let it infiltrate their listening space.

It just feels chauvenistic. They should save the sermons for church.

Many who do this sincerely believe that they are helping and saving people by doing this, and believe that it is through God's will that they are giving the honor or opportunity to help people in the first place. I don't see it as chauvinistic in the same way as say a sexist male would act even though he believes he is doing the right or natural thing.

I'm sure they will, too. Thank god.

I understand how you feel about Christianity, but can you like stop with the sarcastic remarks about how much Christianity is like the source of the world's evil? :smile: You know it's bad when YW seems to have more cheapshots at Christians these days than at white people (not saying that white people deserve cheap shots). Forgive me for making assumptions, but it just seems like from your posts you really have this thing against them (us). It almost appears as if you take it as a lifelong mission to inform others of how Christianity has been used to oppress (which it has). But I guess...you are from Berkeley right? :wink: Anyways no hard feelings, it's just like, I've come to know you as the anti-Christian over time, haha. I know you say you have nothing against individual Christians, but that's like someone who constantly posts articles putting white people into a bad light and then saying that he doesn't hate white people and he just hates the oppressive white apparatus and racist white elites. I really don't think I'm exaggerating or being oversensitive here, just look back at all the threads you've started.

[deez nuts]

I understand how you feel about Christianity, but can you like stop with the sarcastic remarks about how much Christianity is like the source of the world's evil? :smile: You know it's bad when YW seems to have more cheapshots at Christians these days than at white people (not saying that white people deserve cheap shots). Forgive me for making assumptions, but it just seems like from your posts you really have this thing against them (us). It almost appears as if you take it as a lifelong mission to inform others of how Christianity has been used to oppress (which it has). But I guess...you are from Berkeley right? :wink: Anyways no hard feelings, it's just like, I've come to know you as the anti-Christian over time, haha. I know you say you have nothing against individual Christians, but that's like someone who constantly posts articles putting white people into a bad light and then saying that he doesn't hate white people and he just hates the oppressive white apparatus and racist white elites. I really don't think I'm exaggerating or being oversensitive here, just look back at all the threads you've started.


i agree. i've also noticed this trend and i'm neither christian nor anti-christian. i apologize on behalf of them.

seriously, give it a fucking rest already. news flash: you're no better and you're just as annoying as those pushy christian folks that go from door to door trying to convert you and not taking no from an answer. if you have a personal vendetta of sorts against organized religion i.e. christianity, do it on your own time.

please be respectful of other yw members who have a healthy dose of religion and religious beliefs in their life or i will start dishing out god's wrath in the form of negative karma and warnings.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

I'd object to it if they were using transport space (e.g. helicopters) to carry bibles or tracts. But I'm guessing they're not cuz of the literacy rates ...

[BigLew]

I am considering volunteering for a peace corp op. somwhere in asia for tsunami victim aid. I'll give them my word.

[Faithless]

I understand how you feel about Christianity, but can you like stop with the sarcastic remarks about how much Christianity is like the source of the world's evil? :smile: You know it's bad when YW seems to have more cheapshots at Christians these days than at white people (not saying that white people deserve cheap shots). Forgive me for making assumptions, but it just seems like from your posts you really have this thing against them (us). It almost appears as if you take it as a lifelong mission to inform others of how Christianity has been used to oppress (which it has). But I guess...you are from Berkeley right? :wink: Anyways no hard feelings, it's just like, I've come to know you as the anti-Christian over time, haha. I know you say you have nothing against individual Christians, but that's like someone who constantly posts articles putting white people into a bad light and then saying that he doesn't hate white people and he just hates the oppressive white apparatus and racist white elites. I really don't think I'm exaggerating or being oversensitive here, just look back at all the threads you've started.
I don't hate Christians.

I do have a high intolerance for a particular brand -- Evangelical.

I think that's what's headed that way to the Tsunami victims.

Gerry Falwell, for one. (http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=LNA%2FMGArticle%2FLNA_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031780829708&path=!news!archive)
...U.S. Muslim group charged Falwell with using tsunami donations in an effort to convert Southeast Asian people to Christ. On Monday, Falwell labeled those claims inaccurate and said he is conducting mission work in the same way that Christians have done for 2,000 years.
...

.
i agree. i've also noticed this trend and i'm neither christian nor anti-christian. i apologize on behalf of them.

seriously, give it a fucking rest already. news flash: you're no better and you're just as annoying as those pushy christian folks that go from door to door trying to convert you and not taking no from an answer. if you have a personal vendetta of sorts against organized religion i.e. christianity, do it on your own time.

please be respectful of other yw members who have a healthy dose of religion and religious beliefs in their life or i will start dishing out god's wrath in the form of negative karma and warnings.
OK.

[Yeahman]

You guys can probably guess where I stand on this.
It's their (the missionary's) money and they can use it however they want.
I would be a little bothered if aid was contingent on conversion. That's not how I would do it but they do have that right.
But if it was contingent on conversion, just listening to a preacher never made anybody's head explode. There are worse things in life. Like listening to pro-choicers. :wink:

[applehead]

nothing new here.
missionaries taking advantage of people
from poor countries by trying to convert them
to christianity.
it's a bit opportunistic but what can you do.

[BigLew]

Like listening to pro-choicers. :wink:You can't stand yourself if you can't bring it up every chance you get can you?

[nola]

I don't hate Christians.

I do have a high intolerance for a particular brand -- Evangelical.Of course we dislike and have low tolerance for Christians and evangelical Christians these days because they just won Bush the election. We don't dislike individual Christians so much as the ideology.

[draconisz]

Some of those who brought crosses. . .also brought forces.

Rage Against The Machine

[hooligan]

You can't stand yourself if you can't bring it up every chance you get can you?

Where's that pic of a dead horse (with the obligatory yell0 beating it)

[Yeahman]

You can't stand yourself if you can't bring it up every chance you get can you?
You're damn right. 40 million killed and counting is kinda hard to ignore. Somehow I don't think you would have made that comment to someone who continuous railed against the neo-cons and their warmongering ways.

Where's that pic of a dead horse (with the obligatory yell0 beating it)
Right next to the pic of the aborted fetus (with hooligan chopping him up).

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Just another productive thread on abortion clinic bombers, Christianity, dumbshit conservatives, and self-righteous liberals eh? :wink:

[hooligan]

Just another productive thread on abortion clinic bombers, Christianity, dumbshit conservatives, and self-righteous liberals eh? :wink:

All we're missing is a male prositute reporter in the white house who softballs questions to the president. Oh wait ...

[BigLew]

Somehow I don't think you would have made that comment to someone who continuous railed against the neo-cons and their warmongering ways.
Dude I don't even know what the fuck that means.

[Faithless]

Of course we dislike and have low tolerance for Christians and evangelical Christians these days because they just won Bush the election. We don't dislike individual Christians so much as the ideology.
Well, I definitely support the works of the United Church of Christ (www.ucc.org) and the Unitarian Universalists (www.uua.org).

I think one of the positive sides of church goers is how much they've given through their faiths.

You talk about a powerful force when used right. A church's historic practice of helping the needy comes through in times like the Tsunami crisis.

Here's a snippet of an email I got from the UCC.

Members and friends of the United Church of Christ
have poured out their compassion and generosity in wonderful ways, through prayer services, assembling of Church World Service health and school kits and financial contributions.

Your gift has helped make possible support of the relief efforts of our global partners, including the following initiatives:

INDIA

CASA - Churches Auxiliary for Social Action is providing assistance to 50,000 families, i.e. 2,500,000 people. Each family has received a food kit containing rice, lentils, oil, salt and spices as well as a relief kit consisting of blankets, clothing, linens, sleeping mats and shelter materials.

INDONESIA

Church World Service (CWS) is focusing on the Aceh Province where CWS has a long history of service. Displaced families who are being hosted by other families are receiving food, clean water, hygiene kits, medicines and much needed psycho-social counseling. CWS is also addressing sanitation needs by providing latrines.

SRI LANKA

The Jaffna Diocese of the Church of South India reports there are 21,128 families of the diocese that were affected by the tsunami. The church is providing trained counselors, medicines, clean drinking water and toilet facilities. Long-term recovery plans call for the replacement of fishing nets and boats.

CWS distributed 500 shelter kits - tent, ground sheet and plastic tarp - in numerous locations. Additional kits have been requested and are being prepared in Pakistan for shipment to Sri Lanka.

THAILAND

The Church of Christ in Thailand has focused their relief efforts on assisting 100 families in distress which have been overlooked by other aid organizations. Cooking equipment, supplies, counseling, vocational training and temporary schooling needs are being provided until the community can resume their livelihood and support themselves.

The United Church of Christ is committed to accompanying our global partners throughout the relief, recovery and rehabilitation phases of this disaster which we project will last at least five years. Additional gifts in support of this important
ministry are welcome.


Peace,

Susan M. Sanders Phyllis Y. Richards
Minister and Team Leader Program Associate
Global Sharing of Resources Global Sharing,
216-736-3210 216-736-3215
sanderss@ucc.org richardp@ucc.org

[nola]

Well, I definitely support the works of the United Church of Christ (www.ucc.org) and the Unitarian Universalists (www.uua.org).

I think one of the positive sides of church goers is how much they've given through their faiths.

You talk about a powerful force when used right. A church's historic practice of helping the needy comes through in times like the Tsunami crisis.

Here's a snippet of an email I got from the UCC.Hey I never heard of UCC which I'm going to check out. Howard Dean's a UCC so...definately cool. Unitarian Universalists are not Christian! They are non-theistic and combine alotta things including Buddhism. I went to one about six times and it was the best church I ever went to. By far! They're allied with the UN.

[deez nuts]

focus people. focus.

[nola]

They should be able to spread Christianity as long as, as people have said, aid doesn't depend on it and as long as they're not forced to accept it.

[Commando_turned_MD]

Bad. Religion has no place here. Where was your God when the waves came?

[Faithless]

They should be able to spread Christianity as long as, as people have said, aid doesn't depend on it and as long as they're not forced to accept it.
.
Well, according to this article there has been a pact that has been followed with other relief efforts. The Tsunami crisis changed something, though --

For decades, most U.S. faith-based relief agencies have followed a pact: access to government funds in exchange for promises not to seek converts or upset local customs. Even groups that don't take U.S. financial help are on board. Nearly all agree to a code of conduct that separates aid from religious outreach.

The tsunami disaster, however, has given a high-profile stage for other Christian groups outside the established framework.

It's still very rare for any church group to openly combine overseas assistance with missionary work -- especially in the Muslim world. But it remains highly sensitive. Some Islamic leaders in Indonesia have warned of a sharp response to any Christian visitor accused of proselytizing.

Help wanted; hold the Bibles (http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/world/10706741.htm)

MUSLIMS WARY AS CHRISTIAN GROUPS BRING TSUNAMI AID

Posted on Sat, Jan. 22, 2005. By Brian Murphy. ASSOCIATED PRESS

LADONG, Indonesia - The Americans in matching T-shirts were greeted as heroes when they arrived one afternoon with clean water and medical care. But how the help got here was something the tsunami survivors could scarcely comprehend.

The forces of faith, fund-raising and globe-trotting volunteerism have opened a stream of private Christian aid to one of the most religiously conservative corners of Muslim Indonesia.

From the volunteers in a Ladong palm grove to aid provided by Samaritan's Purse, a group run by the son of evangelist Billy Graham, the initiatives show the power of church congregations to gather donations when tragedy strikes.

It also highlights the rising aspirations among a new style of Christian relief leagues mostly linked to evangelists and activists in the United States.

For decades, most U.S. faith-based relief agencies have followed a pact: access to government funds in exchange for promises not to seek converts or upset local customs. Even groups that don't take U.S. financial help are on board. Nearly all agree to a code of conduct that separates aid from religious outreach.

The tsunami disaster, however, has given a high-profile stage for other Christian groups outside the established framework.

It's still very rare for any church group to openly combine overseas assistance with missionary work -- especially in the Muslim world. But it remains highly sensitive. Some Islamic leaders in Indonesia have warned of a sharp response to any Christian visitor accused of proselytizing.

Hasri Husan, a leader of the Islamic Defenders Front, a militant Muslim group that is operating a refugee camp in Banda Aceh, made his feelings clear.

"We will chase down any Christian group that does anything beyond offering aid," he said before making a slashing motion across his throat.

"We don't go around waving Bibles," said Ron Day, part of the 13-member team setting up water filtration and other provisions at a small refugee camp in Ladong, about 10 miles east of Banda Aceh, the hub of international relief efforts. "I know that is sometimes the perception. But it's wrong. As Christians, we are called to help others, but we don't insist that others believe what we do."

Day's group, Strategic World Impact, has become a rising force among the Christian aid brigades. SWI -- run by veteran Christian rights campaigner Kevin Turner -- offers war zone and disaster area training near its Bartlesville, Okla., headquarters. When a crisis hits, it sends out the call to alumni in congregations around the country. Since the late 1990s, the teams have operated from Bosnia to Myanmar.

Day, a freelance video cameraman from Akron, Ohio, got the e-mail shortly after the tsunami struck Dec. 26. A business associate paid half his travel costs.

"We're here as aid workers, not missionaries," said Day, who attends a non-denominational church. "That being said, it's not impossible to think of someone we helped asking us to pray with them and we also saying, 'Of course, and you can also pray with us.'"

This is where it could get complicated in northwestern Indonesia, a region of deep religious significance as the first part of the archipelago to come in contact with Muslim traders nearly 1,000 years ago.

The country's most influential group of Muslim clerics has warned they would "not remain quiet" if Christian groups step beyond offering aid. It's a threat taken seriously in a country where thousands have died in Christian-Muslim violence in recent years.

"This taxi driver asks me, 'Are you a fanatical Christian?'" said Steve Dawson, an SWI team leader from Tacoma, Wash. "I tell him, 'Well, maybe I am because Jesus says love your enemies and I love my enemies.' And then I say to him, 'I even pray for Osama bin Laden.'"

[Yeahman]

Renegade missionaries are always a problem. That's the reason why the Taliban kicked aid workers out of Afghanistan before the war. For years Christian organizations would provide aid and as Mother Teresa said hopefully by their acts of love they will come to see God. It was the best you could ask for. Then some untrained renegade American evangelicals come along and start to hand out flyers on street corners. Suddenly years of good faith among the people is thrown out the window. The nice aid workers are now seen as evil imperialists.
It happens all the time and I'm sure it happened recently during the Tsunami aid effort.

The sad thing is that these ignorant renegade evangelicals don't know how much damage their causing. They think they're sacrificing themselves for the cause when they're really sacrificing the cause. If there's anything that I hate more than a hypocritical Christian it's a stupid Christian. It would be a divine act of mercy for humanity if they were all rendered mute.

"Preach always, and if necessary use words." - St. Francis of Assisi

[Emperor_Mike]

These people have no sense of danger. Indonesia is one of several hotspots in the world where religious differences have often resulted in horrific bloodshed. Yet these Christians seem bent on spreading the Word. They're either incredibly brave or incredibly foolish.

[Faithless]

An email I got from the UCC regarding this issue --

The United Church of Christ's response includes praying for those impacted by any disaster, but our practice is to not push our faith, or beliefs on others. Our response includes the mutuality of being in partnership with friends around the world and walking with them, asking what would you have us do with you.

In addition, the UCC is not a hands-on or first responder. We work through already established relationships such as with Church World Service and Action by Churches Together (ACT) International, who also believe in working through partnerships with people in communities affected by disasters. We work with local folk where possible, helping to rebuild their environments as they see fit, while re-stimulating the economy with employment opportunities and helping build capacity when needed.

Global Ministries (a UCC and Disciples Entity) also work bilaterally
with partners around the world in the same manner. Asking and responding to the issue of "critical presence", that is where do we need to be around the world, and what is it that is important that we do, that others may not be doing.

[Faithless]

Indonesia expels Christian aid groups (http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=139563f3846a1770)

Thursday 17th March, 2005 * Big News Network.com * Friday 18th March, 2005 (UPI)

The Indonesian government has asked Christian relief agencies to leave the tsunami-devastated predominantly Muslim Aceh region, the Washington Times reports.

Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono said March 26 had been set as the deadline for withdrawal several weeks ago, at which time the focus would shift from relief to reconstruction.

Aceh is mostly Muslim, and some church groups from Australia and the United States are too eager to be there and do their part, he told the newspaper. Some of them are not clear about their mandates.

Bruce Campbell-Janz of the Christian Reformed World Relief program said he had heard reports of some Christian agencies setting up large banners with Christian references, something he said would be considered disrespectful.

Meanwhile, Catholic Relief Services, part of the private relief effort that plays a large reconstruction role in the region, said it had not been asked to leave Aceh.

It's quite possible they just want to pull everyone out and have an orderly re-entry, so they pick and choose who can come back in, said CRS spokeswoman Cecile Sorra.

[rotrab]

The best way to keep people from becoming Christians is to preach it to them. I'm bothered more when I meet a convert from somewhere in Asia who has this idea that it is all about love and forgiveness when those are just given lip service by real Christians. These converts don't understand the true intentions of the ones converting them nor do they understand that love and forgiveness are the two things no real Christian has the slightest interest in. There is no better a validation of this than the numbers of Christians who get pissed when you criticize them and their religion. All that forgiveness goes right down the fucking toilet like a big ol' turd.