Asian Indians and Phenotypes

[asvenus]

oh really!! so im not really even half Asian im actually half white and in some mad sick way being a wierd asianphile and pretending to be half asian...*cries* oh god i am even more screwed up than i thought before...*flaggelates self!!*

[asvenus]

see thats the thing about having these ridiculous measurements and phentypes in the first palce...my mother who is asian hsa the coarsest peasant like features and is as white as snow...what the hell does that make her...and then someone who is sri lankan or something who is black as can be with curly rough hair and stuff...what is he...it just gets so essentialist and ludicrous and ends up hurting people and making mixed people in particular in an even more ridiculous situation than our parents did!! i mean under these categories i doubt me and my sister really belong to the same 'race' thats just whats so silly about it all really...im in a wierd mood at the moment where ive really had enough of race and mixed race debate...i feel like i dont even care

[Cipherous]

It's nice how their good example is still racially 100% Caucasian.
haven't you heard....WHITE IS RIGHT!!!!!!

[Aarya Vartan]

shes half Punjabi which is northern Indian..not caucasian!! i wonder though if they would consider a person without caucasian heritage as one of these beautiful anomalies of humanity

lord why are people allowed to make these ridiculous statements...i mean wouldnt it mean that everyone is beautiful because really we are mixed in some way...and sorry to disprove the theory but ive seen my fair share of mixed people and some of em aint too purty!! :tongue:

Are you messed in the head asvenus??? Go to India, Many North Indians are light skinned and white... I should know I am from North India (Half Parsi and Half Indian) and I have blue eyes and brown hair... so before you go off saying indians arent caucasion think about it... india, if your too ignorant to read up before you comment, is a country with 2 ethnic groups: Aryans and Dravidians... The dark skinneds (which are the ones that mostly migrate out of India) are dravidians and there are more of them since in an ancient war they took out and mixed with many aryans. However, NORTH INDIANS are 100% caucasion whether they have pure white skin or not. People always think im a mix cause i look white but whether you want to admit it or not some Indians are white and all north indians (ESPECIALLY Punjab thats where my dads side is from) are aryan. In fact, the origonal name for india is Aaryaa Vaarta (hence my user name :wink: ) Anyways, as far as south indians go, they are probably a mix of mongoloid BUT NONE OF THEM ARE BLACK like u said earlier... in fact they had many negro slaves in india till they set them free. And another thing... sri lanka is not indian by any means wat soever.. they have a totally different ethnicity and they arent even worthy of that title. By the way, maybe the reason you dont see so many white indians around u is because you dont think to ask them their country of origin. Many you just assume is white and you dont care to find out or many indians (shamefully) dont even say where they are from. By the way... that picture she's not of as fair complexion as northern indians like myself but then again her face is kinda in shadow and shadow distorts indian complexion i know that one from personal experience. So next time, think before you speak, or at least research our history before u go denying our caucasion/aryan heritage...

[kimpossible]

Aarya, please refrain from personal comments towards the people you disagree with. I know emotions run high but if the anger and personal comments keep escalating there won't be any real debate left.

edit: actually, make that an all around comment, not just Aarya.

[asvenus]

And another thing... sri lanka is not indian by any means wat soever.. they have a totally different ethnicity and they arent even worthy of that title.

and you are calling me ignorant...wow...
are you basing 'our' worthiness over theirs due to 'our' so-called caucasian heritage??

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Anyways, as far as south indians go, they are probably a mix of mongoloid BUT NONE OF THEM ARE BLACK like u said earlier... in fact they had many negro slaves in india till they set them free. And another thing... sri lanka is not indian by any means wat soever.. they have a totally different ethnicity and they arent even worthy of that title.

hahaha Is it just me, or do some of the Indians "from the north" always like to claim "white" and "Aryan pride" and all that while looking down upon the "darker" peoples (Dravidians) from the south.

[sOKaLiBoY]

IMO i think certain hapa girls are the most beautiful

[Aarya Vartan]

hahaha Is it just me, or do some of the Indians "from the north" always like to claim "white" and "Aryan pride" and all that while looking down upon the "darker" peoples (Dravidians) from the south.

Gumby you are african american...what buisness do you have talking about indian matters. You do not know anything about our culture or our people. Your black nationalists try there best to credit our indian work and pride in some correlation to theirs but guess what not even the dregs of the dregs of our society are negros and everyone knows that. In fact, you do not know our caste system or anything about north indians. Their is a large difference between us because of a long history of wars between north and south. The North were invaded by the aryans via the khyber pass while the south was inhabited by indigneous mongloid/caucasoid people (we dont know for sure). The North's invasion into india is depicted in the aryan book through oral tradition entitled the Rig Veda. Various allegorical references to the wars between the light north and dark south (all though not all of the inhabitants fit that category it is belives that most did) are mentioned in the indian epics the Mahabaratha and the Rammayana (spelling ehhh i suck at it sorry bros!). In any case the world isnt black and white it is various shades of grey as any one knows it. My ancestors were white and I probably had maybe 1 or 2 non white but they were of a high caste mongloid so it didnt matter too much. The oriental community especially has had bad relations with the indians. I dont know why cause individually some of my greatest friends are oriental but some of my greatest enemies are as welll and the enemies that are oriental always are racist to indians. I never experienced the racism but my darker indian friends from the south did. Anyways, i got off topic but back to it, if you think that there is no difference between north and south then you need some glasses or your color blind. dont believe me? Ask any light skinned indian (like myself) where they are from. 98% of them will say North India.

In response to Asvenus id like to say who are you calling we? Unless your a North Indian you are not part of a 'we' with me and if you are a North Indian then shame on you for not accepting your caucasion heritage and accepting the european view of yourself. Good for you, denying your majority white ancestors in favor for the 1 or 2 non white mongloid ones. Even if your not that fair skinned, if your a north indian you still have a plethora of white ancestors in additon to non white (more white then non white). Do not deny respect to your ancestors, they are your past. I am not saying that all indians are all european white because thats not true. But for all North Indians, respect for their ancestors is keen and like it or not most of your ancestors, like i said 100 times, were caucasion and Aaryan.

[kimpossible]

Stepping in for a moment to point out that Gumby isn't African American. Which brings me to this Yellowworld PSA:

If you're using an ethnic identifier that is incorrect, please rethink that strategy regardless of the reason you are doing it. For those that do not want to reveal their ethnicity, you have the option to not list it.

Thank you.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Gumby you are african american...what buisness do you have talking about indian matters. You do not know anything about our culture or our people. Your black nationalists try there best to credit our indian work and pride in some correlation to theirs but guess what not even the dregs of the dregs of our society are negros and everyone knows that.

Wow...........haha Dude it's obvious you're a racist prick. So since i'm not Indian, I have no business commenting on any of your posts, huh? Please.

some of my greatest friends are oriental but some of my greatest enemies are as welll and the enemies that are oriental always are racist to indians.

To follow your fucked up logic, you're not East Asian. What business do you have commenting on East Asian matters and attitudes? Why don't you read some of the shit you just wrote. I'm not sure you're really in any place to complain about other people being racist. For example as I already quoted earlier:

sri lanka is not indian by any means wat soever.. they have a totally different ethnicity and they arent even worthy of that title

Seriously, who the fuck do you think you are, and where the fuck did you learn that writing this type of trash is okay?

If you're using an ethnic identifier that is incorrect, please rethink that strategy regardless of the reason you are doing it.

Understood Kim. However, I don't see how it really makes a difference in this case. If I had listed myself as Chinese he'd have said some stupid ignorant shit about Chinese people in his response.

[kimpossible]

Understood Kim. However, I don't see how it really makes a difference in this case. If I had listed myself as Chinese he'd have said some stupid ignorant shit about Chinese people in his response.

Yeah, it's a separate issue and not a big one but at times I think it can contribute to further miscommunication. That's all.

mod note: split off part of thread no longer on topic and moving to rant

[kuilong]

india, if your too ignorant to read up before you comment, is a country with 2 ethnic groups: Aryans and Dravidians...

And Mundas, Nagas, Tibetans, etc...

The dark skinneds (which are the ones that mostly migrate out of India) are dravidians and there are more of them since in an ancient war they took out and mixed with many aryans.

Seeing as the Indus Valley civilization collapsed centuries before the arrival of Indo-Europeans and no archeological evidence points to any sort of militaristic conflict, it's unlikely that there was any sort of "ancient war". It's generally accepted that the arrival of Indo-Europeans in India was a gradual process of assimilation.

However, NORTH INDIANS are 100% caucasion whether they have pure white skin or not. People always think im a mix cause i look white but whether you want to admit it or not some Indians are white and all north indians (ESPECIALLY Punjab thats where my dads side is from) are aryan.

It's unlikely that there are any pure Indo-Europeans in India at this point, either. Genetic research (e.g. Cordaux, et al. 2004 (http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Cordaux_et_al_2003.pdf)) indicates that Indians are "genetically similar with respect to mtDNA variation".

In fact, the origonal name for india is Aaryaa Vaarta (hence my user name :wink: )

There is no original name for India (and no, it's not Bhārat either). India, like Germany, is one of those countries which didn't have a "national" identity until other people told them they did. There was no name for "India" in the Vedas; only the names of various particular states in the same territory as modern India.

And another thing... sri lanka is not indian by any means wat soever.. they have a totally different ethnicity and they arent even worthy of that title.

The Sinhalese are just as Indo-European as you are. They're not "Indian" because, well, they're not in India -- that's not much of a revelation, is it? As for being "worthy of that title": I had no idea that "Indian" was such an exclusive and sought-after designation.

hahaha Is it just me, or do some of the Indians "from the north" always like to claim "white" and "Aryan pride" and all that while looking down upon the "darker" peoples (Dravidians) from the south.

It works in reverse, as well -- many South Indians (especially those from the scheduled castes) identify strongly with their Dravidian ancestry, and sometimes let their ideology get the better of them, e.g. identifying themselves with the Indus Valley civilization, or postulating some sort of utopian pre-Aryan paradise that the eevul militaristic Indo-Europeans crushed.

[Smush]

Woah those are some odd views Aaryaa Vartan. I have to admit that though I didn't agree with the idea of "Aryan pride" you had, it was some interesting insight into India's history that most people would not know otherwise.

[Vedic_Warrior]

There is no original name for India (and no, it's not Bhārat either). India, like Germany, is one of those countries which didn't have a "national" identity until other people told them they did. There was no name for "India" in the Vedas; only the names of various particular states in the same territory as modern India.



Bharat was the name of an ancient Indian king who united many of these smaller Indian kingdoms into one large kingdom. That is where the Bharat comes from in the Hindi language.

As far as "Arya Varta" is concerned, it simply means "land of the Aryans" in Sanskrit. Its Avestan counterpart is "Ariyana" which also means "land of the Aryans".


Both "Bharat" and "Arya Varta" are names given to the general area that India exists within today. But not Indian in particular, just the general area.

[Chu Chi]

During the 79 Iran hostage crisis, an Iranian told me the word "Iran" meant "land of the Aryans".

Is this true?

CC

[Smush]

During the 79 Iran hostage crisis, an Iranian told me the word "Iran" meant "land of the Aryans".

Is this true?

CC

True, Iranians phenotypically consist of the people you might see from Northern India. The look is more like a somewhat darker Eastern European appearance.

[kuilong]

During the 79 Iran hostage crisis, an Iranian told me the word "Iran" meant "land of the Aryans".

I wouldn't give it such an exact derivation, but it is certainly cognate with "Aryan", as is, for instance, Gk. aristoi. Some people also suggest that Éire (En. Republic of Ireland) is cognate as well. It's posited to have been derived from the PIE root *ar-.

In Sanskrit and Pāli, ārya and ariya respectively is "noble" -- you might have heard of the ariya atthangika magga.

Bharat was the name of an ancient Indian king who united many of these smaller Indian kingdoms into one large kingdom. That is where the Bharat comes from in the Hindi language.

Yah, I know. Though it's unclear whether it referred to the Bharata who was son of Dushyanta or the son of Rishabha -- and both of them are mythological characters.

As far as "Arya Varta" is concerned, it simply means "land of the Aryans" in Sanskrit. Its Avestan counterpart is "Ariyana" which also means "land of the Aryans".

In Avestan, it's Airyanem Vaejah (sometimes spelled Eranvej).

Both "Bharat" and "Arya Varta" are names given to the general area that India exists within today. But not Indian in particular, just the general area.

They're both terms given to areas partially contiguous and overlapping with the modern state of India (though it's not like we have any good ideas of what the exact borders were). After all, Gandhāri, of Mahābhārata fame, was reportedly from modern-day eastern Afghanistan!

[Vedic_Warrior]

Yah, I know. Though it's unclear whether it referred to the Bharata who was son of Dushyanta or the son of Rishabha -- and both of them are mythological characters.



In Avestan, it's Airyanem Vaejah (sometimes spelled Eranvej).



They're both terms given to areas partially contiguous and overlapping with the modern state of India (though it's not like we have any good ideas of what the exact borders were). After all, Gandhāri, of Mahābhārata fame, was reportedly from modern-day eastern Afghanistan!

Yes, Ghandhar is indeed in Afghanistan. In ancient times, the land stretching from eastern Iran all the way to eastern India was a continuous stretch of kingdoms who were linked with each other in culture. You are correct, today's borders don't do justice to locations mentioned in olden times as being vedic-esq kingdoms.

It is rumored that in the legend of Ramayan, Lord Ram spent his banished years in the jungles of southeast asia.......

[asvenus]

wow glad to see a semblance of sanity and accuracy has been introduced back to this thread...

In response to Asvenus id like to say who are you calling we? Unless your a North Indian you are not part of a 'we' with me and if you are a North Indian then shame on you for not accepting your caucasion heritage and accepting the european view of yourself. Good for you, denying your majority white ancestors in favor for the 1 or 2 non white mongloid ones. Even if your not that fair skinned, if your a north indian you still have a plethora of white ancestors in additon to non white (more white then non white). Do not deny respect to your ancestors, they are your past. I am not saying that all indians are all european white because thats not true. But for all North Indians, respect for their ancestors is keen and like it or not most of your ancestors, like i said 100 times, were caucasion and Aaryan.

in respnse, i am very light skinned, my family are Punjabis (live in Lahore) with some Persian ancestry...although i doubt you would consider me a part of your 'we' due to my being a mixed person and mixed with as you call them the 'negro dregs' of our society :rolleyes:

your views are so boring and so typical of most northern Indians, even including my family, youre all so eager to align yourselves with this notion of whiteness as superiority that youre willing to remain in a mental state of European colonisation, sacrificing and ignoring so much of our history and past..it just makes me sad..
you need to do some serious soul searching and brush up on your history me lad and stop with the racist slurs and derrogatory labels..no-ones interested

[ChineseTourist]

what UK scientist are you talking about

regardless, he is full of shit. i'm not mixed and i beat him. his mixed darlings, his white champion, i beat them all

gg, put your fantasy away

[Aarya Vartan]

wow glad to see a semblance of sanity and accuracy has been introduced back to this thread...



in respnse, i am very light skinned, my family are Punjabis (live in Lahore) with some Persian ancestry...although i doubt you would consider me a part of your 'we' due to my being a mixed person and mixed with as you call them the 'negro dregs' of our society :rolleyes:


Asvenus, Negroid qualities are not even in the darkest of the indians. And as for whether I would accept you, of course I would if your ancestory is as such. You don't need to be pure white to be an aarya vartan... I am fair skinned and white in coloration but that doesn't mean all North Indians are... I think we got off on the wrong foot all of us... I was just overzealous and I got off track and I am sorry... But I have alot of pride and distinction between North Indians and South Indians. I do not look down on them but I look down upon those ignorant enough to believe we are teh same. If you are, asvenus, of the kshytria class then I welcome you as a fellow countrymen! If not thats fine too...and look if you are and you choose to not have pride in your distinction and region thats up to you but (and this goes to all of you!) don't bring me down cause ishow pride in my own...

~AV

Btw it said Gumby was african american thats why I referred to him as such. Again I have nothing against africans or other people of other races...i just have pride in my own

[bulldog]

Interesting, since alexander the blond macedonian king before the birth of Jesus came to western asian, egypt, persia and india conquering everything then tell all his soldiers including himself to marry all the conquered women to make a single empire. Maybe this is the result of skin color lightness and other crappy genetic traits.

[Vedic_Warrior]

Interesting, since alexander the blond macedonian king before the birth of Jesus came to western asian, egypt, persia and india conquering everything then tell all his soldiers including himself to marry all the conquered women to make a single empire. Maybe this is the result of skin color lightness and other crappy genetic traits.

Naw, that's not it. Alexander only reached the very beggining of India, he never made it into India proper.....

Also, many Indian records (created centuries before Alexander) talk about light skinned Indians..........

[asvenus]

Asvenus, Negroid qualities are not even in the darkest of the indians. And as for whether I would accept you, of course I would if your ancestory is as such. You don't need to be pure white to be an aarya vartan... I am fair skinned and white in coloration but that doesn't mean all North Indians are... I think we got off on the wrong foot all of us... I was just overzealous and I got off track and I am sorry... But I have alot of pride and distinction between North Indians and South Indians. I do not look down on them but I look down upon those ignorant enough to believe we are teh same. If you are, asvenus, of the kshytria class then I welcome you as a fellow countrymen! If not thats fine too...and look if you are and you choose to not have pride in your distinction and region thats up to you but (and this goes to all of you!) don't bring me down cause ishow pride in my own...
cool...we all get abit beside ourselves at times...my only concern was that your 'zeal' was solely about promoting northern indians as superior over southern indians due to white skin and white heritage...
my family are punjabi muslims, so we dont get into the whole 'caste' debate although our roots i imagine come from the peasant 'jat' clan...so youre a kshtryia sikh eh?? explains the fighting spirit :tongue:
my family are largely mixed with Persian which we usually use as an explanation for why we are 'pigmentally challenged'...
Alexander only reached the very beggining of India, he never made it into India proper.....

Also, many Indian records (created centuries before Alexander) talk about light skinned Indians..........
thank you...this whole 'light equals white' shit is nonsense...

[Chu Chi]

This discussion/debate is a great example of why racism = White supremacy.

The big question is who has the power to enforce their definitions of racial catagories.

In a supreme political system where color is a qualification for mistreatment, it is only a matter of time before someone claims they have no color and proceeds to act on that claim be it true or false.

CC

[Napoleon Chynamite]

The big question is who has the power to enforce their definitions of racial catagories.

Why do you keep talking to us like we're still in the 3rd grade? Thanks for the enlightenment though cause I'm sure most of the people here had no idea this was the case.

[kimpossible]

Why do you keep talking to us like we're still in the 3rd grade?

What's weird is that if you get him talking about motorcycles he comes through the fog a bit.

[Chu Chi]

Why do you keep talking to us like we're still in the 3rd grade? Thanks for the enlightenment though cause I'm sure most of the people here had no idea this was the case.


Im sorry if I offended you. I prefer to test my views and knowledge by asking questions, but some people don't like that so I make statements and wait for people to point out flaws in my logic.

I need the help.

Im trying to become smarter.

Im hoping someone will help me by raising questions about what I say, adding additional facts...

Everyone here is my "professor".

I found a critical mass of smart people of various backgrounds and I like it here.

Its like being a student at the University of the World.

CC

[kimpossible]

Im sorry if I offended you. I prefer to test my views and knowledge by asking questions, but some people don't like that so I make statements and wait for people to point out flaws in my logic.

I need the help.

Im trying to become smarter.

Im hoping someone will help me by raising questions about what I say, adding additional facts...

Everyone here is my "professor".

I found a critical mass of smart people of various backgrounds and I like it here.

Its like being a student at the University of the World.

CC

I understand that you got used to a certain pattern at another discussion board and that's why you've acquired the posting style that drives everyone here nuts. Is there any chance that you could adapt to the posting style here which isn't so

"quote"

bold

and questions up the wazoo?

Don't respond to this post because it will get us further off topic but think about the idea of trying to adapt your posting style to get away from the random quote, bolds and nonstop questions to concentrate on easier to read paragraphs with your own thoughts and ideas.

This thread came to a good resolution. Closing.