mandatory parenting classes

[kasia]

this has been on my mind for quite some time, but why *shouldn't* we have mandatory parenting classes for all individuals who are going to be raising children? obviously, the classes are necessary in many cases - and rather than making a judgment or speculation on which type of couple or class or group requires it the most - why not make it a universal requirement?

some may argue that it violates our constitutional right to privacy and to have a family, but i would argue that it would not be a problem if we do not take away the children should the couple fail the classes. as an incentive (or punishment), we could just require continual schooling for those who cannot pass the course and, if they refuse to go, fine them and take it out of their wages.

i'm so tired of seeing teenage mothers who jaywalk with their babies, parents who don't know when to take the child to see a doctor, parents who can't tell a third degree burn when they see one, fathers who leave their newborns lying next to their chihuahua/doberman/other mutt, parents who fight and cuss in front of their kids, parents who use their kids as messengers when they fight, parents who drag their 10-year-olds to a custody proceeding to testify about the time they saw the other parent lying drunk and unconscious on the floor, etc. there are so many people who are unfit to be parents yet our government/society does nothing about it if it fails to amount to child abuse or serious child neglect.

so why isn't there legislation for mandatory parenting classes?

[nola]

Hear, hear.

[Faithless]

Are you talking about --

* In addition to, or
* Aside from

Sex education?

It's interesting -- the "mandatory parenting" term is more commonly associated with divorced parents.

[SunWuKong]

i'd agree to it if it was only for those who have been found to possibly be bad parents. those who have committed certain crimes like DUI, or teenage parents. i don't think it should be for everybody.

or else, if they government will compensate for the pay i'd miss for missing work to go to the class, then sure, i'd do it.

[deez nuts]

mandatory parenting. HA.

some couples need mandatory sterilization.

[applehead]

i'm so tired of seeing teenage mothers who jaywalk with their babies, parents who don't know when to take the child to see a doctor, parents who can't tell a third degree burn when they see one, fathers who leave their newborns lying next to their chihuahua/doberman/other mutt, parents who fight and cuss in front of their kids, parents who use their kids as messengers when they fight, parents who drag their 10-year-olds to a custody proceeding to testify about the time they saw the other parent lying drunk and unconscious on the floor, etc. there are so many people who are unfit to be parents yet our government/society does nothing about it if it fails to amount to child abuse or serious child neglect.

so why isn't there legislation for mandatory parenting classes?

god. the stuff you mentioned, isn't that
common sense?
i don't think that's bad parenting. i think
that's a lack of common sense.
and i don't know how one can teach that
in a class.

have you watched nanny911?
now these people have bad parenting skills.
there's no boundaries. they're too lenient.
mom says yes. then dad says no.
and these things can only be corrected
with individual attention in regards to
each family members' personality.

it's reflective of our society today if
they're teaching things like "don't smoke, cuss
jaywalk in front of your children."
in parenting classes.
it's so sad.

[Yeahman]

Why not just make it part of high school education? It already is in some schools.

[kasia]

i was thinking of requiring it every single time a woman is pregnant. of course, the father must also attend. and the employer should pay for the time - it should be incorporated in the family leave act.

[Chu Chi]

i'm so tired of seeing teenage mothers who jaywalk with their babies, parents who don't know when to take the child to see a doctor, parents who can't tell a third degree burn when they see one, fathers who leave their newborns lying next to their chihuahua/doberman/other mutt, parents who fight and cuss in front of their kids, parents who use their kids as messengers when they fight, parents who drag their 10-year-olds to a custody proceeding to testify about the time they saw the other parent lying drunk and unconscious on the floor, etc. there are so many people who are unfit to be parents yet our government/society does nothing about it if it fails to amount to child abuse or serious child neglect.

so why isn't there legislation for mandatory parenting classes?

I suspect because just like everything else in this system, prosecution would be selective. The more POWERFUL people would select the LESS POWERFUL people for mandatory parenting classes.

For example: White people who "who can't tell a third degree burn when they see one" will be excused for such mistakes while non white people will be prosecuted under the "mandatory parenting classes" act.

I suggest each parent create for him or herself a "parenting code" consisting of the best things to say and/or do to raise a child to achieve their full constructive potential.

This "code" would consist of suggestions from other parents attempting the same.

This is my contribution to the "parenting code".

Its just a suggestion.

CC

[kitty]

i would fear that mandatory classes opens the doors to trying to teach one cultural preference over another. different cultures raise children differently -- and place different emphasis on different things. for example, many American child psychologists argue that children need lots of time off to play and expand their minds, or perhaps that corporal punishment for children can adversely affect them. Yet in Asian cultures (or at least with my family), mild corporal punishment under the proper circumstances (a spanking for trying to steal some candy) is acceptable, and for me, there was a greater emphasis on discipline and study rather than playing.

Is it really worth trying to force parents to go to mandatory parenting classes if those classes would trample all over cultural and individual differences in parenting? Shouldn't we have the right to parent as we see fit, if we disagree on what is good for child development?

And how do you fail a parenting class?

I might agree with Radford on parenting for parents who are found by courts to be bad parents, but I would actually agree more that stuff like Nanny911 would help more than a class. There's simply a lack of good, widely accessible forms of parenting lessons. Instead of these books that cater to the educated, middle to upper middle class, TV shows that show you how to parent in a way that would also provide entertainment for those watching I think will improve people's commitment to parenting and their knowledge of what to do.

[SunWuKong]

god. the stuff you mentioned, isn't that
common sense?
i don't think that's bad parenting. i think
that's a lack of common sense.
and i don't know how one can teach that
in a class.

have you watched nanny911?
now these people have bad parenting skills.
there's no boundaries. they're too lenient.
mom says yes. then dad says no.
and these things can only be corrected
with individual attention in regards to
each family members' personality.

it's reflective of our society today if
they're teaching things like "don't smoke, cuss
jaywalk in front of your children."
in parenting classes.
it's so sad.

white parents are too lenient! where is the slap across the face if the kid talks back??? they have to learn FEAR!

[applehead]

white parents are too lenient! where is the slap across the face if the kid talks back??? they have to learn FEAR!

the get a 5 minute time out.
5 minutes staring at the wall.
that'll teach 'em!

[SunWuKong]

i was thinking of requiring it every single time a woman is pregnant. of course, the father must also attend. and the employer should pay for the time - it should be incorporated in the family leave act.


what does the Family Leave Act say about workers that are paid hourly? what if the employer just schedules less hours for the pregnant mother or father?


another thing i'm wondering about is enforcement. how do you make sure people actually go, and what happens if you don't go? what if you're an illegal immigrant, or for any number of reasons, want to avoid the government? would that discourage you to even go see a real doctor about your pregnancy?

the get a 5 minute time out.
5 minutes staring at the wall.
that'll teach 'em!

they should stand there with a bucket of water on their heads instead.

[kasia]

i would fear that mandatory classes opens the doors to trying to teach one cultural preference over another. different cultures raise children differently -- and place different emphasis on different things. for example, many American child psychologists argue that children need lots of time off to play and expand their minds, or perhaps that corporal punishment for children can adversely affect them. Yet in Asian cultures (or at least with my family), mild corporal punishment under the proper circumstances (a spanking for trying to steal some candy) is acceptable, and for me, there was a greater emphasis on discipline and study rather than playing.

Is it really worth trying to force parents to go to mandatory parenting classes if those classes would trample all over cultural and individual differences in parenting? Shouldn't we have the right to parent as we see fit, if we disagree on what is good for child development?

And how do you fail a parenting class?

I might agree with Radford on parenting for parents who are found by courts to be bad parents, but I would actually agree more that stuff like Nanny911 would help more than a class. There's simply a lack of good, widely accessible forms of parenting lessons. Instead of these books that cater to the educated, middle to upper middle class, TV shows that show you how to parent in a way that would also provide entertainment for those watching I think will improve people's commitment to parenting and their knowledge of what to do.

i agree that cultural preference would be a huge concern, but this can be taken care of by teaching only the basics. most child protective services agencies recognize now, for example, that spanking is accepted in asian cultures, but that doesn't mean slamming a kid's head against the wall should fall into the category of spanking (and many parents will do this when they are angry). nutrition - a newborn should not be eating the same foods as a two-year-old. childcare - your 5-year-old should not be your 2-year-old's nanny. actions that probably shouldn't be taken in front of children - many parents treat their children as though they are adults. etc. etc.

by leaving it to the courts to determine which parents need to undergo these classes, the cultural preference problem is not overcome. l.a. is pretty diverse, but most of the family law judges here are...old, white men. why would we place it into the hands of these few individuals to decide what is and is not acceptable?

also, we have many asian psychologists and counselors in the field now - as well as asian social workers. in cities where there are ethnic enclaves, it will probably be these asian social workers that conduct the classes. as for the material to be taught, the basics and limitations should be spelled out by the legislation, and we have lobbyists, activists, and our asian legislative caucus to speak up on our community's behalf.

i don't mean to sound naive about it - certainly ethnocentrism is a huge concern and we'll have to keep a close eye on the programs, but i think having these classes and protecting the best interests of the children should be the most important goal.

[SunWuKong]

how come nobody has even asked... how much would this cost?

[kasia]

what does the Family Leave Act say about workers that are paid hourly? what if the employer just schedules less hours for the pregnant mother or father?


i don't know the answers to that without doing research, but re: the latter part - that's just discrimination. report it to the eeoc.

another thing i'm wondering about is enforcement. how do you make sure people actually go, and what happens if you don't go? what if you're an illegal immigrant, or for any number of reasons, want to avoid the government? would that discourage you to even go see a real doctor about your pregnancy?

fine them. and if they continue to evade, put them in jail. this will be like the child support system. illegal immigrants are still required to pay child support.

this program won't be concerned about their status & shouldn't even inquire into it. i don't see that as a problem - since illegal immigrants collect welfare for the children, work with social workers, etc. regularly.

as for not seeing a real doctor - that would be covered in the class. rule #1: it's important to see a physician during your pregnancy. 'told ya these classes are necessary.

how come nobody has even asked... how much would this cost?

as much as it already costs the government to hire, train, and pay child protective services workers. probably even less. i don't understand why our system has to be so reactionary - to care for the children after they have already been harmed and scarred.

[rice cracker]

They could do a mail in test to see if someone needs to take the class. FHA mortgages have it set up where the person receives a booklet, they study it, then phone in and do the test over the phone. I could see that being a good option. If the parents to be fail the phone test (which they would have to be pretty stupid to do with the book right in front of them) then they take time off to attend the class. It'll prepare them for the time they'll have to take off of work to go to family court.

[kasia]

They could do a mail in test to see if someone needs to take the class. FHA mortgages have it set up where the person receives a booklet, they study it, then phone in and do the test over the phone. I could see that being a good option. If the parents to be fail the phone test (which they would have to be pretty stupid to do with the book right in front of them) then they take time off to attend the class. It'll prepare them for the time they'll have to take off of work to go to family court.

haha. i can envision a corruption growing out of this - esp in the immigrant communities. ads for English-proficient, experienced individuals to take the calls for you!

[Yeahman]

How about mandatory driving classes for those who get cars? Mandatory gun safety classes? Mandatoy health classes for the obese? Mandatory mandatory classes on the importance of mandatory classes?

How about teach it in high school then make them pass a test? If they fail just sterilize them.

OK forget about the sterilization but seriously why not in high school? You can even make it a requirement to pass a test in order to graduate.

[kasia]

How about mandatory driving classes for those who get cars?

how did you bypass the DMV test to get your license???

mandatory parenting classes are different from mandatory nutrition/health classes for the obese b/c children are affected. these children will go on to become members of our society - and their education and upbringing during the first five years of their lives have been proven to be crucial.

[rice cracker]

haha. i can envision a corruption growing out of this - esp in the immigrant communities. ads for English-proficient, experienced individuals to take the calls for you!

Well, just like FHA booklets, these can be in different languages as well.

[kitty]

so you're arguing for different cultural parenting classes?

i mean even 'the basics' isn't necessarily basic. i mean, who's to decide that spanking is or is not basic? and fining or jailing parents -- again, how do you fail the parenting class? how would you decide who is or isn't a good parent based upon the class?

and aren't we getting into the territory of licensing people to have children? isn't that basically the government taking control of one's own body and reproductive rights away from us?

one more thing, isn't there a liability issue? i mean, if the government starts certifying parents, would the government have to assume responsibility for that system being a good determination for parenthood? is there a possibility that if someone who passes the test is deemed an unfit parent that a family member or the child itself could hold the government responsible?

[nola]

Parenting skills should be part of high school health and sex education curriculum. They should also have personal money management skills in high school.

We already have to pass a test to get a driver's license, we have to get a gun license to get a gun and we already have high school health education to prevent obesity.

[kasia]

so you're arguing for different cultural parenting classes?

i mean even 'the basics' isn't necessarily basic. i mean, who's to decide that spanking is or is not basic?

it's in my previous thread. there are basics to child-rearing, and i would argue that there can also be a line drawn between spanking and child abuse. the child protective services in your area make that distinction everyday.

and fining or jailing parents -- again, how do you fail the parenting class? how would you decide who is or isn't a good parent based upon the class?

i don't know if i'm in the position to make up the logistics of the entire program, but i would say that they should at least attend all of the classes, then pass a written test & a performance test.


and aren't we getting into the territory of licensing people to have children? isn't that basically the government taking control of one's own body and reproductive rights away from us?

that would only be if the punishment for not attending the classes is the relinquishing of their parental rights. that's not what i'm advocating. i'm saying that we should fine them. once they fail to pay the fines over a period of time, they can be punished for that crime, like how the district attorney prosecutes for nonpayment of child support arreages. certainly deadbeat dads can't argue that this is an infringement on their right to control their own body or reproduce.

one more thing, isn't there a liability issue? i mean, if the government starts certifying parents, would the government have to assume responsibility for that system being a good determination for parenthood? is there a possibility that if someone who passes the test is deemed an unfit parent that a family member or the child itself could hold the government responsible?

since when have we sued the DMV for car accidents?

[applehead]

They should also have personal money management skills in high school.

i would have liked that very much
while i was in hs.

[Yeahman]

how did you bypass the DMV test to get your license???
You don't have to take a class. Besides I think that maybe a privatized exam administered by insurance companies might be better. If they're too much of a liability, then they don't get a license.

And can you repond to my suggest to include this parenting education in high schools?

[kpih]

I am torn on the issue. It drives me insane when I see bad parenting kasia mentioned. I just want to smack the parent upside the head and ask what is his/her/their major malfunction.

On the other hand it I don't want no government to tell me how to raise my child/children! I and I alone (with a spouse perhaps) will screw up my child/children!

Not funny. I know.

[nola]

You have to pass a written test and a driving test to get your driver's license.

I already responded to the question of parenting classes in high school. It should be part of high school health and sex education. My male cousin took a parenting class in college and loved it. He wants to be a good parent.

We really need high school personal money management classes!

[kasia]

You don't have to take a class. Besides I think that maybe a privatized exam administered by insurance companies might be better. If they're too much of a liability, then they don't get a license.

And can you repond to my suggest to include this parenting education in high schools?


i like the privatized exam idea, actually.

re: the high school idea - we already had it in my high school, where we had to carry bags of flour around for one week - but i don't think that's effective. i think people may care more about learning parenting skills right before or while they are already parents. also, a lot of immigrants don't attend high school or are already past that age.

[SunWuKong]

as much as it already costs the government to hire, train, and pay child protective services workers. probably even less. i don't understand why our system has to be so reactionary - to care for the children after they have already been harmed and scarred.

yeah but the difference here is that you're going to be putting everybody through the class whenever they're pregnant. but it's only a minority of parents that actually need child protective service workers. you may be wasting a lot of government dollars teaching parenting skills to those that either already have it or would have developed them well anyway. and who's to say how effective a class would be? i'm still more for only making those that need the education take the class.

[kasia]

yeah but the difference here is that you're going to be putting everybody through the class whenever they're pregnant. but it's only a minority of parents that actually need child protective service workers. you may be wasting a lot of government dollars teaching parenting skills to those that either already have it or would have developed them well anyway. and who's to say how effective a class would be? i'm still more for only making those that need the education take the class.

but i think we need parenting classes for those parents whose actions won't necessary amount to abuse or serious neglect but are harmful to their children nonetheless. that would account for over 50% of parents, imo.

[nola]

Everyone needs a rudimentary parenting skills class like they need basic money management skills. Health and sex ed taught us basic nutrition and how to avoid STDs. Just think of all the problems and suffering we'd save people from if they knew basic parenting and money management. The carrying flour sacks around is effective in teaching kids how much work and an investment children are.

[SunWuKong]

but i think we need parenting classes for those parents whose actions won't necessary amount to abuse or serious neglect but are harmful to their children nonetheless. that would account for over 50% of parents, imo.

which would go take us back to my original question - how much would that cost? i'm not so sure i'd be willing to pay higher taxes just so some dumb-ass knows not to jaywalk with his/her kid.

[kitty]

i'm sorry to harp on this, but i absolutely don't like the idea of licensing people to have kids which is what you're doing if you're going to liken it to the DMV. that's just a complete and total attack on basic civil liberties. regardless if you're taking the child away or not, you're still forcing compliance to a code of good parenting through financial punishment -- establishing a gov't-enforced 'right way to raise a child' and denying citizens their own personal freedom to decide for themselves.

i apologize if it came off that way but i wasn't asking for logistics, i was trying to point out that there really isn't a definitive guide to good or bad parenting. there isn't anyone who can decide for all Americans what is the basics of being a good parent, nor should the gov't enforce those arbitrary guidelines on others. that kind of thing ignores cultural differences (just as old white male judges tend to do too) and a right to raise your children as you see fit (within reason).

another thing to consider is that these classes won't necessarily ensure that parents will be 'good parents' if they pass this class. not all drivers are good drivers yet they get a license (it makes legal sense to me to hold the gov't responsible for licensing someone that shouldn't have gotten the license, btw... so i don't know why ppl don't sue the DMV...) some parents are bad just because they don't care, and forcing them to attend a class won't make them care -- and to me those types would be able to pass a test and get their motherhood/fatherhood license.

but i think we need parenting classes for those parents whose actions won't necessary amount to abuse or serious neglect but are harmful to their children nonetheless. that would account for over 50% of parents, imo.

Why not just have pamphlets, TV ads, or government-sponsored optional classes? That gets the information out there to the masses but doesn't force anybody to do anything against their will.

re: ye110man's privatized exams.

What would be the incentive for private companies to do this if not government-payment, in which case you're just contracting out what the government is planning on doing anyways? Would you be selling parenting insurance?

[A.R.A.M.]

I don't like the idea of mandatory parenting classes, especially if the curriculum is dictated by the government. Do you really think the government would leave such a parenting class to the "basics", such as don't jaywalk with your kid? Don't you think that the government would use those classes as forum to expound on such topics as homosexuality? And what about information on socializing kids in gender roles? As Kitty said in a different context, what is basic parenting? I'm sure some would think basic parenting is shaping a kid into a certain kind of person. The curriculum will be definition be political, even the bit on the necessity to see a doctor.

Moreover, schools do send out pamphlets and other stuff to parents offering advice on how to raise their kids. I don't know if all do, but mine did. I know because I intercepted it. And let me tell you, it was all about lame, easily seen through stereotypes. For example, "If your child listens to heavy metal, you need to be concerned because he or she may be contemplating suicide. At the very least, you need to make sure he or she is not involved in satantic practices." This kind of information is not helpful. Well, maybe if the school said the parents needed to be concerned if their kids listened to the Smiths. (Damn, I'm aging myself)

[kitty]

well, aram, more to the point, the only way for this kind of a program to work is if it were adminstered regionally. otherwise it would be a bureaucratic nightmare if it were done on a federal level. in which case each region would most likely be able to establish what the basic parenting criteria would be, much as they do with school boards.

[ism]

I agree with kitty in terms of how much this impacts civil liberties. The implication that parents are licensed, or that mandatory parental training serves a public good has too many far-reaching implications. Both impact reproductive rights, and the argument that this training serves the public good is even more damaging. To advocate a certain way of raising a child is not far from advocating a certain way of having a child from pre-conception.

Kasie, some of your examples already have legislative answers. If a parent jaywalks with their child, there already exists a law against it. Not taking a child to a doctor and not treating burns can be dealt with through child abuse laws. I don't think I need to explain how I feel about a legislative measure to deal with parents cussing and fighting in front of a child, and I fail to see how education will prevent a vindictive parent from using their child to provide certain testimony in court, or any parent from doing any of the things you mentioned.

Mandatory parental education as you propose is extremely heavy-handed and other than punishing people for not taking the classes, don't see any real effect on how children are actually treated.

[SunWuKong]

i'm sorry to harp on this, but i absolutely don't like the idea of licensing people to have kids which is what you're doing if you're going to liken it to the DMV.

well you can always require people who fail a "parenting test" to take a parenting class, and all those who pass won't have to take the test.

[kimpossible]

I liked ye110's idea of implementing it in high school.

[Faithless]

...How about teach it in high school then make them pass a test? If they fail just sterilize them.

OK forget about the sterilization but seriously why not in high school? You can even make it a requirement to pass a test in order to graduate.
What if you don't plan on having kids or are incapable?

[kimpossible]

What if you don't plan on having kids or are incapable?

Plans can change and people adopt or take care of foster children. Or maybe babysit, have younger siblings, cousins.

[Faithless]

Plans can change and people adopt or take care of foster children. Or maybe babysit, have younger siblings, cousins.
I guess.

I'm not really wedded one way or another to this issue.

I'd be more worried about the implementation, and cost (especially when curriculum money is so tight), and - and - and - making this an inroads issue for conservative Christians.

[kimpossible]

I guess.

I'm not really wedded one way or another to this issue.

I'd be more worried about the implementation, and cost (especially when curriculum money is so tight), and - and - and - making this an inroads issue for conservative Christians.

I have similar concerns. On the other hand, I don't think it hurts to have instruction on the care of infants and small children, including CPR. It would have to be primarily volunteer driven, I'd imagine because there's no budget for it as you point out.

[ism]

Something like "Understanding Children and their Needs" rolled into HomeEc along with "Basic Finances" in high school would work better than legislating parental certification. Scale back the amount of cooking, sewing, woodshop, etc., to squeeze these in. The budget and framework already exist.

[Faithless]

Something like "Understanding Children and their Needs" rolled into HomeEc along with "Basic Finances" in high school would work better than legislating parental certification. Scale back the amount of cooking, sewing, woodshop, etc., to squeeze these in. The budget and framework already exist.
Actually roll them all up into one.

That way kids can see what a real chore life is.

I've read where it has been implemented, at least I think I googled such. Need to do more digging to see how well it has been received.

[Yeahman]

re: ye110man's privatized exams.

What would be the incentive for private companies to do this if not government-payment, in which case you're just contracting out what the government is planning on doing anyways? Would you be selling parenting insurance?
I was talking about auto insurance.
The incentive for the companies is to see if the applicant is a good investment. If you are uninsurable, you shouldn't have a license. If you are insurable, you should have a license. The seperate licensing and insuring processes are redundant. Currently the private insurance companies just rely on the government to provide them with information on the quality of the driver. The government is doing their homework for them. If necessary, government guidelines can make sure that the insurance companies set standards comparable to government standards. Just think of how much money the government would save by cutting the DMV down to a fraction of what it is today.

[kasia]

to circumvent the potential problems, why not just parenting classes that educate on the already existing laws - which most parents are not aware of as it is. we can have classes on what constitutes child abuse and neglect, the ages where children can be left at home alone, education on childcare - existing options, etc.

issues re: cultural preferences, government intervention, etc. are already existent in our current system - CPS & family courts. we should just make it preventative rather than reactionary. and to answer rad's question, i would anticipate that over a period of time, it shouldn't cost us any more than what is already being allocated to these CPS & the courts b/c, theoretically, the problems should subside if the proper education were given.

[nola]

Something like "Understanding Children and their Needs" rolled into HomeEc along with "Basic Finances" in high school would work better than legislating parental certification. Scale back the amount of cooking, sewing, woodshop, etc., to squeeze these in. The budget and framework already exist.This is the cheapest and best way IMO. Make them part of the high school, FREE curriculum.

[Yeahman]

Parenting, finance, law, auto shop, and computer education should be mandatory in high school. Health and gym should be taken more seriously starting from elementary school. Economics and government/politics/political philosophy should be covered more in depth. Foreign languages should be taught starting from elementary school or not at all.
Oh and a mandatory class teaching the virtues of Catholicism.

[DragonKnight]

Hmm, I think in a more dynamic society parents have to be more aware of what goes on with their kids. No, I'm not saying that one of the parents has to give up his/her career to pay more attention to their kids. But their has to be more efficient ways to raise your child. In my family's case, our grandmother took cared of us and instilled some good ol Asian discipline while both of my parents worked their asses off. Not always the case tho.

I dunno about mandatory classes on parenting. But I think their has to be some form of education when it comes to rearing your children. It's just a pain trying to figure out who will need it most without becoming a social watchdog.

[Clara]

I would like to talk about having a parenting class in schools. I am a high schooler and would like to know why you think that having a parenting class in the school setting is such a good idea? Okay yeah its a pretty cheap way of showing kids how to deal with parenting, but do you know how many kids think that the class is a joke? In my school district we have Home ec in middle school for 3 years. We carry around an egg and pretend we are parents and blah blah blah...the class is such an easy grade that we don't care what they are teaching us. And in High we have a health class for only 2 quarters for one year and thats it. And in this health class we talk about STDs and other health related things but we do not talk about parenting.

I am in a special program at my school called the Labschool. We are required to do huge presentations as our Mid-term on a controversial topic and we present in front of a board of examiners. My point being i am trying to set up a Mandatory Parenting class. I understand both sides of the situation. But as i looked up real facts i saw the percentage of children who are being neglected and abused. And i think that if we do have some sort of mandatory parenting class that it would, in the long run, help the percentages of abuse go down.

But again i hate the fact of having the government take over how people should raise their kids. On the otherhand, somebody has to stand up and take responsibility for the lack of good parenting in our society. If not our government, then who? The focus should be on the kids--after all, we are the future.

[VV o n g B a]

gov't should only get involved in teaching parents how to raise kids if the parents are minors. or stupid... and if u have a kid when ur a minor, u have demonstrated gross stupidity.

by and large, studies have shown parenting doesn't matter much as kids get older. kids tend to do better if their parents are smart and their peers don't drag them down. if ur parents are dumb and have u when they're teenagers b/c thats what dumb ppl do, u'll tend to be fucked for life regardless of whether they abuse u.

legislating classes for the avg person is a waste of money. ppl that microwave their kids or dump them in a bin after birth would prolly have dropped out before taking that class anyways.

[kimpossible]

Hi Clara. I'm not sure how much this could help you in your presentation but I'll do my best to respond to your question. My answer is based on two experiences. I've become a parent for the first time in the last couple of years and prior to that I completed a year long criminal justice practicum with law enforcement at a detention center.

Many of the inmates had children. Most were in on convictions unrelated to their children but still had related legal issues or parenting issues. My views over the course of the year changed, mainly due to a data gathering project I worked on. The project measured the occurrence of offenses prior to and after the inmate attended an educational class. Most of these classes related to life skills or life decisions. Some were parenting classes. Looking at the data as a whole showed that while not effective with every person every time, the net effect (at least with that data set) showed a worthy downward trend of recurring offenses.

Meaning... some of it probably works some of the time for some of the people. It comes down to the use of resources for the amount of measurable effect.

Moving on to what I have to add as a parent, while you get most of what you need from a limited childbirth prep course, I feel what would be most useful is a limited duration "childcare" class that includes First Aid and Infant/Child CPR. The class would basically be what NOT to do to seriously hurt or kill a child and what type of catastrophic intervention knowledge is useful, i.e., First Aid, SIDS, second hand smoke, medicine doses and types, small magnets on toys or loose parts, food choking hazards.

Parenting, in contrast, is not really substantive knowledge. Pediatricians are experts in a child's physical health in the manner that they are essentially mechanics for your baby. Parenting is different. It's only experiential, it's based on the very individual needs of the child, and it's every second of every day. The quality of parenting is almost always proportional to how much time and effort you put into it. Sometimes that amount of time is dependent on money, as in having the ability to afford to spend less time working and more time with your child. Sometimes it's choice or parenting philosophy. But a class can't and shouldn't teach that.

The term long class where you haul around a chicken egg is ridiculous.

[Clara]

Thank you so much for responding so quickly to my post! You gave some helpful information and i appreciate it. I would like your opinon on mandatory parenting classes for fathers. I am interested and concerned about all the societial problems resulting from the lack of father figures, especially within certain socio-economic groups. I don't mean for that to sound offensive at all but there are a lot of statistics out there about that issue.