Racist Halloween Costume

[achtungbaby]

disguise.com has released a new costume for kids to don this Halloween:

http://yellowworld.org/images/articles/specific/10_02/disguise.gif

The costume's description:

"Kung Fool
Hiiiiiiiyaaaaa! Become a master of martial arts over night, or… well… maybe not, but have fun wearing the Disguise Kung Fool costume! Includes: Black and white kimono, belt and vinyl half-cap. Fits up to size 46 Style: 1115"

You can check it out at:

http://www.disguise.com/html/product_detai...ail.cfm?ID=1115 (http://www.disguise.com/html/product_detail.cfm?ID=1115)

[deez nuts]

Fucking A! :angry:

[achtungbaby]

Is it me or does "Kung Fool" sort of stand out from their other costumes: http://www.disguise.com/html/pl_detail.cfm...cat_number=1100 (http://www.disguise.com/html/pl_detail.cfm?cat_number=1100)

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 9 2002, 03:52 PM
Is it me or does "Kung Fool" sort of stand out from their other costumes: http://www.disguise.com/html/pl_detail.cfm...cat_number=1100 (http://www.disguise.com/html/pl_detail.cfm?cat_number=1100)
Well the sexy surgeon costume kinda stands out too, whooooaaaa momma.

Seriously, it's the only costume with the stereotypical asian features, most noticeable the buck teeth. That alone stands out in itself.

It's like they took some sterotypical Asian features, mixed it with Chinese Opera mask and threw in "Hi, I'm a dumb racist hick."



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Oct 9 2002, 03:59 PM-->

[thaite]

Okay, that was just stupid. I'm gonna pee on anyone I see wearing it. I hope they really know kung fool, cuz they'll need it.

[Craig]

Actually, I don't think the costume is new. I think I recall seeing it in the stores circa Halloween 2000. Btw, here's another costume.

http://www.tolerance.org/images/teach/pt/iia/PT_IMA_Chinese_Reg.jpg

[ChinaLama]

at least "Chinese Man Kit" isn't buck-toothed. what is w/ Asian stereotypes and bucked teeth? don't white ppl have buck teeth too?

[wylin]

im gonna wear my kkk costume or Jim Crow Kit this halloween then

[jizza]

Originally posted by wylin@Oct 10 2002, 09:31 AM
im gonna wear my kkk costume or Jim Crow Kit this halloween then
don't forget to let ur gut hang out, where a dirty wife beater, and carry around a six pack of beer. a dirty, beat up pickup truck would also help with the authenticity...

[optiontoo]

Heaven forbid that French people be offended with the "French Maid" costume. (Or witches or vampires being offended either.) ;-)

[thaite]

Originally posted by optiontoo@Oct 9 2002, 05:03 PM
Heaven forbid that French people be offended with the "French Maid" costume. (Or witches or vampires being offended either.) ;-)
Well, I haven't heard of any French protesting the maid costume, so if you see any post some links, okay?

The point is, nobody really thinks you're trying to be French -- that is unless you fail to bathe a few weeks beforehand.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by optiontoo@Oct 9 2002, 04:03 PM
Heaven forbid that French people be offended with the "French Maid" costume. (Or witches or vampires being offended either.) ;-)
Of course, for them to be truly offended, I guess the company would have to create a "French Maid Retard" or "Vampire Loser" outfit.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 9 2002, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by optiontoo@Oct 9 2002, 04:03 PM
Heaven forbid that French people be offended with the "French Maid" costume. (Or witches or vampires being offended either.) ;-)
Of course, for them to be truly offended, I guess the company would have to create a "French Maid Retard" or "Vampire Loser" outfit.
And de French Maid outfit, must come with the mandatory fake pubic hair to stick under your armpits. Cuz we know the frenchy chicks love it au natural! Because, all coolies have them buckteeth!



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Oct 9 2002, 07:25 PM-->

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by jizza@Oct 9 2002, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by wylin@Oct 10 2002, 09:31 AM
im gonna wear my kkk costume or Jim Crow Kit this halloween then
don't forget to let ur gut hang out, where a dirty wife beater, and carry around a six pack of beer. a dirty, beat up pickup truck would also help with the authenticity...
The hillybilly hick Rick kit comes as a set. One for the man and one for the woman with matching outfits and similiar looking masks. Cuz nuthing says luvin' like luvin' yo couzin.

[achtungbaby]

I think it's time we started a petition. Disguise.com should remove this from their site and costumes should be pulled from shelves.

Realistic? Probably not. I'm just tired of this shit, this Abercrombie-esque attitude that tells everyone they can ridicule Asians -- *and* benefit from it.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 10 2002, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by jizza@Oct 9 2002, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by wylin@Oct 10 2002, 09:31 AM
im gonna wear my kkk costume or Jim Crow Kit this halloween thendon't forget to let ur gut hang out, where a dirty wife beater, and carry around a six pack of beer. a dirty, beat up pickup truck would also help with the authenticity...The hillybilly hick Rick kit comes as a set. One for the man and one for the woman with matching outfits and similiar looking masks. Cuz nuthing says luvin' like luvin' yo couzin.
How is this supposed to be painting an inaccurate representation of a group ? Btw, you guys forgot the shotgun in the back of the pickup truck.



<!--EDIT|Craig|Oct 10 2002, 12:38 AM-->

[optiontoo]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 10 2002, 12:34 AM
Realistic? Probably not. I'm just tired of this shit, this Abercrombie-esque attitude that tells everyone they can ridicule Asians -- *and* benefit from it.
You could always make the "Dirty White Man" costume... includes fat-suit, faux pack of cigarettes in the sleeve, beer can helmet, whiskey bottle in back pocket, mail order bride catalog in other back pocket, ass crack peeking out of top of underwear, bald head wig...

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 9 2002, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 10 2002, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by jizza@Oct 9 2002, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by wylin@Oct 10 2002, 09:31 AM
im gonna wear my kkk costume or Jim Crow Kit this halloween thendon't forget to let ur gut hang out, where a dirty wife beater, and carry around a six pack of beer. a dirty, beat up pickup truck would also help with the authenticity...The hillybilly hick Rick kit comes as a set. One for the man and one for the woman with matching outfits and similiar looking masks. Cuz nuthing says luvin' like luvin' yo couzin.
How is this supposed to be painting an inaccurate representation of a group ? Btw, you guys forgot the shotgun in the back of the pickup truck.
Craig, you forgot the 6' wooden burning cross and the bottle of moonshine!

And AB, I'm down. It might or might not do anything at least we can say we did something, ya know what I'm saying?

[angel nympho]

I'm not any more offended by that than this: http://www.buycostumes.com/images/Product/Product400/10727.jpg

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 9 2002, 04:40 PM
And AB, I'm down. It might or might not do anything at least we can say we did something, ya know what I'm saying?
I know exactly what you're sayin. I definitely want to throw one swing in if I can. Lemme see what I can do to get a petition built into the site. If that's not feasible, I'll put something up on go.petition.

I wonder how difficult it would be to get 1,000 signatures...it'd be nice if we could get a sizable number and then officially contact disguise...

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 04:45 PM
I'm not any more offended by that than this...
The moment a white person wants me to sign a petition saying we don't need to peddle stereotypes to children, I'll sign up.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 07:45 PM
I'm not any more offended by that than this: &nbsp;http://www.buycostumes.com/images/Product/Product400/10727.jpg
Hey if the hillbillies wanna do a petition to express their dislike of that costume, I'm all for it.





<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Oct 9 2002, 07:50 PM-->

[angel nympho]

I'd be more offended at the Kung Fool costume if it said "Asian guy costume." But whatever. It's not a big deal to me... Sorry to be the white supremacist of the board, but I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant for it to explicity show what Asian people look like.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 07:57 PM
I'd be more offended at the Kung Fool costume if it said "Asian guy costume." But whatever. It's not a big deal to me... Sorry to be the white supremacist of the board, but I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant for it to explicity show what Asian people look like.
It's all good, you're entitled to your opinion.

This type of shit just hits me more than some of the other shit that's been tossed around here at YW. Don't know why, I just have a lower threshold of tolerance for stupid shit like this.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 10 2002, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 07:57 PM
I'd be more offended at the Kung Fool costume if it said "Asian guy costume." But whatever. It's not a big deal to me... Sorry to be the white supremacist of the board, but I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant for it to explicity show what Asian people look like.
It's all good, you're entitled to your opinion.

This type of shit just hits me more than some of the other shit that's been tossed around here at YW. Don't know why, I just have a lower threshold of tolerance for stupid shit like this.
Yeah, don't get me wrong. I totally see that it's understandible to be offended by it, but I guess things like that don't bother me as much. I mean, I see people talking shit about races all the time, so I guess I just deal with it differently. I mean, I think it's fucked up, but I think that unless we can eliminate ALL racist jokes... *Scratches head* I lost my train of thought. I think it was something like, if they (and we) are making fun of white people, black people, mexican people, irish people... then they can make fun of us, too. Wait, that came out wrong. Forget I said anything. :confused:



<!--EDIT|angel nympho|Oct 10 2002, 01:08 AM-->

[Craig]

Here's a more detailed picture ...

http://www.disguise.com/db_images/10293D10.gif

[wylin]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 04:57 PM
I'd be more offended at the Kung Fool costume if it said "Asian guy costume." But whatever. It's not a big deal to me... Sorry to be the white supremacist of the board, but I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant for it to explicity show what Asian people look like.
true it didnt offend me either that much or at all. lets make a korean costume then to see the offensive nature since the kung fool is i chinaman representation.

lets dress the man version:
- Tight black shirt
- Gucchi or D&G belt
- loose but not baggy nor tight black slacks
- Nice Jacket
- Mask w/ enebriated look and Cigarette in mouth
- Dyed hair wig
- Bottle of Crown
- Taekwondo bandana
- name gludious the ultimate korean club waiter.

Female
- Guchi, versaci, emporio armani shirt
- dark make up overdone makeup w/ whore blush and batman eyebrows
- tight form fitting slacks black color
- Nice tight back jacket w/ crown royal stain and semen stain toward top
-alcohol smell perfume
- bowl of dog stew and kimchee

thats bout as offensive as the chinese one was to me. there u go.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by wylin@Oct 10 2002, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 04:57 PM
I'd be more offended at the Kung Fool costume if it said "Asian guy costume." &nbsp;But whatever. &nbsp;It's not a big deal to me... Sorry to be the white supremacist of the board, but I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant for it to explicity show what Asian people look like.
true it didnt offend me either that much or at all. lets make a korean costume then to see the offensive nature since the kung fool is i chinaman representation.

lets dress the man version:
- Tight black shirt
- Gucchi or D&G belt
- loose but not baggy nor tight black slacks
- Nice Jacket
- Mask w/ enebriated look and Cigarette in mouth
- Dyed hair wig
- Bottle of Crown
- Taekwondo bandana
- name gludious the ultimate korean club waiter.

Female
- Guchi, versaci, emporio armani shirt
- dark make up overdone makeup w/ whore blush and batman eyebrows
- tight form fitting slacks black color
- Nice tight back jacket w/ crown royal stain and semen stain toward top
-alcohol smell perfume
- bowl of dog stew and kimchee

thats bout as offensive as the chinese one was to me. there u go.
*scratches head*

I don't get it. That Korea man/woman demonstration doesn't really offend me either.

I mean... the costume up there wasn't a "Chinaman" costume. That might be a little more offensive. But.. Umm... I don't know, man. If it offends you, then okay. I was just saying that it didn't offend me. Maybe I'm dead inside. Sorry.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 10 2002, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 07:57 PM
I'd be more offended at the Kung Fool costume if it said "Asian guy costume." But whatever. It's not a big deal to me... Sorry to be the white supremacist of the board, but I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant for it to explicity show what Asian people look like.
It's all good, you're entitled to your opinion.

This type of shit just hits me more than some of the other shit that's been tossed around here at YW. Don't know why, I just have a lower threshold of tolerance for stupid shit like this.
Yeah, don't get me wrong. I totally see that it's understandible to be offended by it, but I guess things like that don't bother me as much. I mean, I see people talking shit about races all the time, so I guess I just deal with it differently. I mean, I think it's fucked up, but I think that unless we can eliminate ALL racist jokes... *Scratches head* I lost my train of thought. I think it was something like, if they (and we) are making fun of white people, black people, mexican people, irish people... then they can make fun of us, too. Wait, that came out wrong. Forget I said anything. :confused:
Yeah, I see your point, I try to see two sides to everything. But call me selfish or provincial, but I don't really care about other racist jokes, remarks or depictions of any other ethnicity/race. Any racist generalizations about blacks, whites, latinos etc etc. They can handle theirs, it's in their realm. Though at times, I can definitely sympathize with them.

I just care about negative Asian depictions, remarks, insults etc etc, because it has an impact on me, being Chinese. That's my foremost concern.

I won't front, it's narrow minded of me to think this way. But I gotta look out for myself and myself first. And I view this not necessarily as an attack, but definitely an insult to me and those that share my views.

I guess this is analogous to your disdain for the words "slut" and "fags."

[Arex]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 05:57 PM
I'd be more offended at the Kung Fool costume if it said "Asian guy costume." But whatever. It's not a big deal to me... Sorry to be the white supremacist of the board, but I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant for it to explicity show what Asian people look like.
As has been said in the abercrombie threads, there's no way in hell they'd put out a "Plantation Worker" costume incorporating a jacked up caricature of a black person for the mask. Why then should this be acceptable?

Alex

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Arex@Oct 10 2002, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 05:57 PM
I'd be more offended at the Kung Fool costume if it said "Asian guy costume." But whatever. It's not a big deal to me... Sorry to be the white supremacist of the board, but I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant for it to explicity show what Asian people look like.
As has been said in the abercrombie threads, there's no way in hell they'd put out a "Plantation Worker" costume incorporating a jacked up caricature of a black person for the mask. Why then should this be acceptable?

Alex
Well, why is it acceptable to have a "HICK MAN" costume, but not the other two? I think if you want to get rid of one, you should get rid of them all. ...and since THAT's not going to happen...

Besides, I don't see anybody trying to make a "Plantation Worker" costume. I don't think anybody would even find it interesting.



<!--EDIT|angel nympho|Oct 10 2002, 01:25 AM-->

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 9 2002, 05:10 PM
Here's a more detailed picture ...

http://www.disguise.com/db_images/10293D10.gif
Wow, nice blow-up! What'd you use for that?:)

[Craig]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 10 2002, 01:31 AM
Wow, nice blow-up! &nbsp;What'd you use for that?:)

It's on the Disguise website also.

Here's a link about Disguise and a small text exerpt.

http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20011021/75310.html

"We call it Kung Fool," Coppens said, speaking through the rubberized face.

"The symbol on the headband is the Chinese character for 'loser.'"



<!--EDIT|Craig|Oct 10 2002, 01:43 AM-->

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 9 2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 10 2002, 01:31 AM
Wow, nice blow-up! What'd you use for that?:)

It's on the Disguise website also.

Here's a link about Disguise and a small text exerpt.

http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20011021/75310.html

"We call it Kung Fool," Coppens said, speaking through the rubberized face.

"The symbol on the headband is the Chinese character for 'loser.'"
Jesus Christ. Ya know, I like to consider myself as a pretty fair or reasonable person (except for when it comes to cigarettes), but I honestly can't think of a reason why Asians, at the very least, should be opposed to mass marketing stereotypes to children, certainly when it's at the expense of us -- the Asians! Shit, I think it's horrible if the same happens to others, but if someone comes up to me and is disrespectful, I'm not going to do research on whether other people have also been similarly disrespected -- I'll talk shit first and then apologize later. Because even if the encroachment was unintended -- as angel_nympho has suggested -- it only invites others to do the same in the future.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 9 2002, 08:36 PM


"The symbol on the headband is the Chinese character for 'loser.'"
I didn't even see that, thanks for pointing it out.

It's bai as in da bai as in defeated. Sorry shitty pinying skillz.

Heh, least they got the strokes and the character right.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by buoywonder@Oct 10 2002, 12:20 AM


The point is, nobody really thinks you're trying to be French -- that is unless you fail to bathe a few weeks beforehand.
that stupid costume is a manifestation of that stupid kung pow enter the fist movie.

It's funny how ppl are upset about stereotypes and then they go and stereotype someone else right after.

i guess all i can say is that at least that french maid outfit doesn't come w/ some crappy mask

[blkazngirl]

Originally posted by wylin@Oct 9 2002, 11:31 PM
im gonna wear my kkk costume or Jim Crow Kit this halloween then
ROFLMAO I thought I would crap bricks! I like the idea of a KKK custome!

But seriously, who made the custome, we should send letters to boycott them. They have gone overbroad with the mask! This is the kind of custome that will get the crap beat out of some kid.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 10 2002, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 9 2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 10 2002, 01:31 AM
Wow, nice blow-up! What'd you use for that?:)

It's on the Disguise website also.

Here's a link about Disguise and a small text exerpt.

http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20011021/75310.html

"We call it Kung Fool," Coppens said, speaking through the rubberized face.

"The symbol on the headband is the Chinese character for 'loser.'"
Jesus Christ. Ya know, I like to consider myself as a pretty fair or reasonable person (except for when it comes to cigarettes), but I honestly can't think of a reason why Asians, at the very least, should be opposed to mass marketing stereotypes to children, certainly when it's at the expense of us -- the Asians! Shit, I think it's horrible if the same happens to others, but if someone comes up to me and is disrespectful, I'm not going to do research on whether other people have also been similarly disrespected -- I'll talk shit first and then apologize later. Because even if the encroachment was unintended -- as angel_nympho has suggested -- it only invites others to do the same in the future.
I don't mean it was unintended. I mean, it was the intention of the creaters of this costume to make this character a complete idiot, hence the "loser" on the forehead. I recognize that. I don't think it's fair, however, to automatically assume that the makers of the costume are saying that it's an accurate representation of a typical Asian person. It's not "Chinaman costume" or "Typical martial arts guy" ... it's "Kung FOOL"... a martial arts idiot. Did you expect him to look like a typical asian person?

[Craig]

Originally posted by blkazngirl@Oct 10 2002, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by wylin@Oct 9 2002, 11:31 PM
im gonna wear my kkk costume or Jim Crow Kit this halloween then
ROFLMAO I thought I would crap bricks! I like the idea of a KKK custome!

But seriously, who made the custome, we should send letters to boycott them. They have gone overbroad with the mask! This is the kind of custome that will get the crap beat out of some kid.

If some kid wears that mask and gets the crap beaten out of him by some people, I would feel no sorrow for the kid whatsoever. Any kid that wears that type of mask deserves what he/she gets. There is no excuse for ignorance and stupidity.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by blkazngirl@Oct 10 2002, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by wylin@Oct 9 2002, 11:31 PM
im gonna wear my kkk costume or Jim Crow Kit this halloween then
ROFLMAO I thought I would crap bricks! I like the idea of a KKK custome!

But seriously, who made the custome, we should send letters to boycott them. They have gone overbroad with the mask! This is the kind of custome that will get the crap beat out of some kid.

If some kid wears that mask and gets the crap beaten out of him by some people, I would feel no sorrow for the kid whatsoever. Any kid that wears that type of mask deserves what he/she gets. There is no excuse for ignorance and stupidity.
So you'd rather beat the crap out of him than educate him?

[Arex]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 02:14 AM

If some kid wears that mask and gets the crap beaten out of him by some people, I would feel no sorrow for the kid whatsoever. Any kid that wears that type of mask deserves what he/she gets. There is no excuse for ignorance and stupidity.
So you'd rather beat the crap out of him than educate him?
Hey, it could be worse. The kid might roll up to some dude's house in Texas and be mistaken for a Japanese foreign exchange student looking for a Halloween party and get blown away!

I know that it's supposed to be "Kung Fool," but does that mean they have to resurrect a buck-toothed, squinty-eyed caricature from the past that was once used to mock and disrespect Asians? I mean, just 'cause I want to put together a Crack Dealer costume doesn't mean I have to make a mask of some black dude with exaggeratedly large lips, penty of gold-capped teeth, etc. Bottom line is that shit is insensitive and offensive.

Alex



<!--EDIT|Arex|Oct 9 2002, 07:39 PM-->

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by blkazngirl@Oct 9 2002, 06:09 PM
This is the kind of custome that will get the crap beat out of some kid.
Hmmm...that's a very good point, thanks: "We're boycotting you to prevent you from getting young non-Asians hurt"...:)

Anyway, a YW online petition is in the works and will be done by tonight or tomorrow.

What I could really really really really really use some help with is content. If anyone would like to volunteer, I'd appreciate it. This is what I need to put together so far, and if anyone has ANY input or ideas, please shoot em my way:

- mission statement with bullet points on why disguise.com must die (jk);

- three paragraph form letter we can include in any correspondence to people, so they can easily send;

- names/addresses of poway's assembly person and state senate rep

- any helpful suggestions on how to easily broadcast this message to *parents*

[Uncle Tat]

Wow that is pretty retarded...

Yeah that costume really DOES stand out. I mean all the other costumes are something halloweeny or "cool"...but Kung Fool?

That chinese man costume was pretty bad too but it didnt have the buck-tooth at least.

Aiya stupid white people!

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 9 2002, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by blkazngirl@Oct 9 2002, 06:09 PM
This is the kind of custome that will get the crap beat out of some kid.
Hmmm...that's a very good point, thanks: "We're boycotting you to prevent you from getting young non-Asians hurt"...:)

Anyway, a YW online petition is in the works and will be done by tonight or tomorrow.

What I could really really really really really use some help with is content. If anyone would like to volunteer, I'd appreciate it. This is what I need to put together so far, and if anyone has ANY input or ideas, please shoot em my way:

- mission statement with bullet points on why disguise.com must die (jk);

- three paragraph form letter we can include in any correspondence to people, so they can easily send;

- names/addresses of poway's assembly person and state senate rep

- any helpful suggestions on how to easily broadcast this message to *parents*
I have no clue AB when it comes to this stuff.

[thaite]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Oct 9 2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by buoywonder@Oct 10 2002, 12:20 AM


The point is, nobody really thinks you're trying to be French -- that is unless you fail to bathe a few weeks beforehand.
that stupid costume is a manifestation of that stupid kung pow enter the fist movie.

It's funny how ppl are upset about stereotypes and then they go and stereotype someone else right after.

i guess all i can say is that at least that french maid outfit doesn't come w/ some crappy mask
Yeah. I guess some people don't detect sarcasm unless you smiley right after you use it.

<_<

[Reinhard H.]

You poor victimized, disadvantaged youth, a halloween costume is by definition intended as a JOOOOOOKE, can't you guys take it with a bit of humour, everybody knows that real life Asians don't look anything like this silly mask.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 9 2002, 10:00 PM
You poor victimized, disadvantaged youth, a halloween costume is by definition intended as a JOOOOOOKE, can't you guys take it with a bit of humour, everybody knows that real life Asians don't look anything like this silly mask.
Well then since you put it that way, I'll dress up as Adolf Hitler when I go to my friends hospital halloween party over at Long Island Jewish Hospital

I'm sure those light hearted peeps over at that particular hospital will see the humor in my costume.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Oct 9 2002, 10:05 PM-->

[thaite]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 9 2002, 08:00 PM
You poor victimized, disadvantaged youth, a halloween costume is by definition intended as a JOOOOOOKE, can't you guys take it with a bit of humour, everybody knows that real life Asians don't look anything like this silly mask.
Yeah, dude! So you're gonna be Osama this year, huh? And parade in ground zero, right? Yeah, right on! Good joke!

[angel nympho]

I think those two situations you guys just outlined up there are very different in nature. Those are a bit extreme.

I guess my main thing that bugs me about this thread is: Why dish it when you can't take it?

And I don't mean this in the sense that it's all fun and jokes. I'm 100% serious. I can't stand the fact that so many Asian people (and don't worry, I'm not saying this to offend any of you... just trying to speak my mind) stand so strongly for anti-racism... and at the same time, so many Asian people are the most racist people I've ever met.

It frustruates me.

And in Reinhard's defense, Halloween is meant so people can act like idiots. And some kid wear a stupid Kung Fool costume when he goes trick-or-treating is a lot different than dressing like Adolf Hitler to visit Jewish people in a hospital. Dressing like Adolf Hitler to go trick-or-treating, on the other hand... I don't really care.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 10:12 PM
I think those two situations you guys just outlined up there are very different in nature. Those are a bit extreme.

I guess my main thing that bugs me about this thread is: Why dish it when you can't take it?

And I don't mean this in the sense that it's all fun and jokes. I'm 100% serious. I can't stand the fact that so many Asian people (and don't worry, I'm not saying this to offend any of you... just trying to speak my mind) stand so strongly for anti-racism... and at the same time, so many Asian people are the most racist people I've ever met.

It frustruates me.

And in Reinhard's defense, Halloween is meant so people can act like idiots. And some kid wear a stupid Kung Fool costume when he goes trick-or-treating is a lot different than dressing like Adolf Hitler to visit Jewish people in a hospital. Dressing like Adolf Hitler to go trick-or-treating, on the other hand... I don't really care.
Sorry angel, I disagree with ya. Just because one group doesn't find it offensive doesn't mean another wouldn't.

Of course Asians in the real don't look like that mask and we all know Hitler is dead and the Holocaust is over.

I hear ya with the Asians and the racism shit. I always said if you can dish, you gotta be able to take it. But in this case with the mask I am the only one taking it, I never dished it. I don't care about the others, I took offense period. That's the whole beef with that mask because it's an extreme depiction of the Asian male. So I countered with an extreme example.

Come on you know me from my posts, I kept it real a good majority of the time and I never stuck up or spewed out racist shit, cuz that's not how I am.

And to clarify there aren't only Jewish People over at Long Island Jewish Hospital, in fact the majority isn't even Jewish working there. So that kinda adds to the Halloween humor, right?

And what if that kid wearing that mask (the Chinese one) rang a Chinese family's doorbell?

Sorry, I don't flow like that, offensive is offensive.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Oct 9 2002, 10:34 PM-->

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 10 2002, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 10:12 PM
I think those two situations you guys just outlined up there are very different in nature. Those are a bit extreme.

I guess my main thing that bugs me about this thread is: Why dish it when you can't take it?

And I don't mean this in the sense that it's all fun and jokes. I'm 100% serious. I can't stand the fact that so many Asian people (and don't worry, I'm not saying this to offend any of you... just trying to speak my mind) stand so strongly for anti-racism... and at the same time, so many Asian people are the most racist people I've ever met.

It frustruates me.

And in Reinhard's defense, Halloween is meant so people can act like idiots. And some kid wear a stupid Kung Fool costume when he goes trick-or-treating is a lot different than dressing like Adolf Hitler to visit Jewish people in a hospital. Dressing like Adolf Hitler to go trick-or-treating, on the other hand... I don't really care.
Sorry angel, I disagree with ya. Just because one group doesn't find it offensive doesn't mean another wouldn't.

Of course Asians in the real don't look like that mask and we all know Hitler is dead and the Holocaust is over.

I hear ya with the Asians and the racism shit. I always said if you can dish, you gotta be able to take it. But in this case with the mask I am the only one taking it, I never dished it. I don't care about the others, I took offense period. That's the whole beef with that mask because it's an extreme depiction of the Asian male. So I countered with an extreme example.

Come on you know me from my posts, I kept it real a good majority of the time and I never stuck up or spewed out racist shit, cuz that's not how I am.

And to clarify there aren't only Jewish People over at Long Island Jewish Hospital, in fact the majority isn't even Jewish working there. So that kinda adds to the Halloween humor, right?

And what if that kid wearing that mask (the Chinese one) rang a Chinese family's doorbell?

Sorry, I don't flow like that, offensive is offensive.
Don't worry, I totally hear ya. I'm not saying that the costume is OKAY by all means, I'm just saying... well... That I don't think it's meant to depict Asians as a race. I can see how a lot of people could be offended by it. I just... am not, I guess.

But then again, lately I've been feeling the brunt of what happens when you're too nice and you give people the benefit of the doubt. So my opinions lately havn't even been valid to ME. :cry: Not that I'm upset or anything. I'm just... rambling.

[Reinhard H.]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 10 2002, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 9 2002, 10:00 PM
You poor victimized, disadvantaged youth, a halloween costume is by definition intended as a JOOOOOOKE, can't you guys take it with a bit of humour, everybody knows that real life Asians don't look anything like this silly mask.
Well then since you put it that way, I'll dress up as Adolf Hitler when I go to my friends hospital halloween party over at Long Island Jewish Hospital

I'm sure those light hearted peeps over at that particular hospital will see the humor in my costume.
Actually I saw a (caricature) Adolf Hitler carneval mask for sale when I visited Prague a couple of years ago, which is sort of ironic, since the Czech Republic was occupied by Germany from 1939-45 and the people there suffered quite a lot under the nazis, they also sold masks of Brezhnev who ordered the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968, which just goes to show the differences in attitude - bad taste humour is alright (I think) as long as it's clear that it's not meant seriously (which is pretty obvious in the case of the "chinaman" mask).

[kasia]

reinhard: and i'm laughing while i'm calling your mom a white trash whore.


i am so sick of this shit. if we don't take action, it will continue. i'm going to file a defamation suit against the company. can someone tell me what the chinese character on the mask says? and would anyone on yw like to be a potential plaintiff to this action? no attorneys fees involved. even if we don't win, i want them to have to spend money on attorney's fees.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 9 2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 10 2002, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 9 2002, 10:00 PM
You poor victimized, disadvantaged youth, a halloween costume is by definition intended as a JOOOOOOKE, can't you guys take it with a bit of humour, everybody knows that real life Asians don't look anything like this silly mask.
Well then since you put it that way, I'll dress up as Adolf Hitler when I go to my friends hospital halloween party over at Long Island Jewish Hospital

I'm sure those light hearted peeps over at that particular hospital will see the humor in my costume.
Actually I saw a (caricature) Adolf Hitler carneval mask for sale when I visited Prague a couple of years ago, which is sort of ironic, since the Czech Republic was occupied by Germany from 1939-45 and the people there suffered quite a lot under the nazis, they also sold masks of Brezhnev who ordered the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968, which just goes to show the differences in attitude - bad taste humour is alright (I think) as long as it's clear that it's not meant seriously (which is pretty obvious in the case of the "chinaman" mask).
Just because some people don't find it offensive, doesn't mean everyone does not find it offensive.

Masks of Hitler and Brezhnev are aimed at one particualr person, not a whole ethnicity/race as a whole. Hell, I couldn't give a rat's ass if they sold a mask of Mao.

It's the way the mask is depicted that Asians find offensive. The very same traits that we found offensive since it was first depicted in cartoons and movies of the early days a la Breakfast at Tiffiny's



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Oct 9 2002, 11:05 PM-->

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 9 2002, 11:00 PM
reinhard: &nbsp;and i'm laughing while i'm calling your mom a white trash whore. &nbsp;


i am so sick of this shit. &nbsp;if we don't take action, it will continue. &nbsp;i'm going to file a defamation suit against the company. &nbsp;can someone tell me what the chinese character on the mask says? &nbsp;and would anyone on yw like to be a potential plaintiff to this action? &nbsp;no attorneys fees involved. &nbsp;even if we don't win, i want them to have to spend money on attorney's fees.
Craig pointed it out. I didn't even notice it.

It's bai as in da bai as in defeated. Sorry shitty pinying skillz.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Oct 9 2002, 11:15 PM-->

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 10 2002, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 9 2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Oct 10 2002, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 9 2002, 10:00 PM
You poor victimized, disadvantaged youth, a halloween costume is by definition intended as a JOOOOOOKE, can't you guys take it with a bit of humour, everybody knows that real life Asians don't look anything like this silly mask.
Well then since you put it that way, I'll dress up as Adolf Hitler when I go to my friends hospital halloween party over at Long Island Jewish Hospital

I'm sure those light hearted peeps over at that particular hospital will see the humor in my costume.
Actually I saw a (caricature) Adolf Hitler carneval mask for sale when I visited Prague a couple of years ago, which is sort of ironic, since the Czech Republic was occupied by Germany from 1939-45 and the people there suffered quite a lot under the nazis, they also sold masks of Brezhnev who ordered the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968, which just goes to show the differences in attitude - bad taste humour is alright (I think) as long as it's clear that it's not meant seriously (which is pretty obvious in the case of the "chinaman" mask).
Just because some people don't find it offensive, doesn't mean everyone does not find it offensive.

Masks of Hitler and Brezhnev are aimed at one particualr person, not a whole ethnicity/race as a whole. Hell, I couldn't give a rat's ass if they sold a mask of Mao.

It's the way the mask is depicted that Asians find offensive. The very same traits that we found offensive since it was first depicted in cartoons and movies of the early days a la Breakfast at Tiffiny's
Again, I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant it to represent Asians as a whole.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 11:08 PM

Again, I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant it to represent Asians as a whole.

Yes, I believe you and agree with you. But, they failed miserably in trying not to do so.

Whether it was by accident or on purpose is really of no interest to me. Some of us that are offended by it, has the right to point it out.

Edit: And I'm done finishing up here at the hospital, I'm beat and I'm going home to crash, now.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Oct 9 2002, 11:18 PM-->

[artsfartsyjanet]

Let's petition ALL the way!!!

[Reinhard H.]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 10 2002, 04:00 AM
reinhard: and i'm laughing while i'm calling your mom a white trash whore.


i am so sick of this shit. if we don't take action, it will continue. i'm going to file a defamation suit against the company. can someone tell me what the chinese character on the mask says? and would anyone on yw like to be a potential plaintiff to this action? no attorneys fees involved. even if we don't win, i want them to have to spend money on attorney's fees.
1. Making general statements (not that this mask was ever intended as any kind of statement) is always different from personal offenses, e.g. I think it's ok to say something like "soldiers are murderers", but it's not alright to call any individual soldier a murderer (at least if he hasn't engaged in any combat etc.).
2. If you call somebodies mother a "white trash whore" it is by no means clear that this is intended as a joke (in fact in most cases it probably isn't), in the case of this silly mask nobody takes it seriously, do you think any white person is offended at masks that show white ugly witches with warts on their crooked noses (I used to actually own such a mask as a kid)? I mean look at Beavis 'n Butthead, if they were of any other race, the show would have been cancelled and the producer fined for "racism" a long time ago.

[Chris]

Ugh what a retard costume. I sign your petition.

Hey AB post it on the RBJ boards. You will get more signature there.

[achtungbaby]

Reinhard: white people will take less offense than minorities for obvious reasons -- unless of course you're implying that racism doesn't exist and we minorities have just dreamed up our ching-chong chinamen experiences that this costume reminds us of.

Let's keep some perspective, people. This is not a costume of some faceless ninja or kung-fu master or sumo wrestler, not merely the artifacts that help one play such a part.

They threw in a friggen mask of an Asian -- any Asian -- with slanted eyes and buck teeth. Did you not read Arex's comments earlier about crack dealers?

Some of you might disagree, but I personally found this a lot more despicable than the A&F episode.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Chris@Oct 9 2002, 08:45 PM
Ugh what a retard costume. I sign your petition.

Hey AB post it on the RBJ boards. You will get more signature there.
Thanks Chris. Once I get it working, I'll be posting the link to it everywhere:)

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 9 2002, 11:37 PM
do you think any white person is offended at masks that show white ugly witches with warts on their crooked noses (I used to actually own such a mask as a kid)? I mean look at Beavis 'n Butthead, if they were of any other race, the show would have been cancelled and the producer fined for "racism" a long time ago.
I don't care how the white people depict themselves. If a white person or a convent of witches finds it offensive, they have every right to voice their opinion. It's not my fight. I don't care, it's their business. I may sympathize, but if I don't agree with them, I ain't gonna try and sway them, because obviously they're seeing something that I am not seeing. And it is their fundamental right to do so.

This issue, however affects me and it offends me. And obviously offends a good majority of the people on this board. If something offends me personally and others share the same view, we have what you call a voice. Which also gives us the right to express it, either as an individual or as a group, no matter how asinine it may seem to others that don't see it that way.

In your example, what white people do to themselves or how they depict themselves and whether or not they, themselves, find it offensive or not, is of no concern to me. So long if it's not me (and only me) doing the direct offending of a particular group or person. I can only be accountable for my own actions not someone else's actions. It's not my job to do so. Yes I'm selfish like that.

I'm not an activist thats gonna take up every cause and fight for it. I'm gonna pick and choose my battles on issues that affect me, myself and I. And this obviously includes insulting or offending my race/ethnicity.

I'm all about what have you done to me and what have you done for me. And in this case of "Kung Fool" mask, all they've done to me is offend me, and they haven't done jack shit for me.

I've said my peace.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Oct 10 2002, 09:17 AM-->

[Arex]

Reinhard: The reason why the average white person isn't going to take offense to a redneck costume is because that particular depiction of a white person was created by white people for a white audience. Asian Americans, African Americans, Latinos, etc. didn't have a hand in the creation of what is known as White Trash. This Kung Fool character was created by white people mocking the Chinese for a white audience. If you can't see the difference, you're hopeless.

Alex



<!--EDIT|Arex|Oct 10 2002, 05:57 AM-->

[Craig]

Not that I agree with R.H.'s views, but I have noticed that several people have attacked him personally more than anything else. He isn't the one who has said the most about the mask not being offensive. Yes, he is seeing the world through different eyes and can't relate, so many things don't affect him in the same manner as they do many of us. I still don't think he warrants a personal attack.

There are many people on this board that are non-Asian or are not full-Asian and as long as this board is like that (unlike the site where AB probably originally got the information about the mask) we have to realize that their experiences in life are heavily influenced on what they look like. So, they will have different exposures, experiences, opportunities, lack of opportunities and feel things we may not feel. Also, they may not feel things we feel.

That being said, why have several people attacked him in particular and not somebody else on the board who has said more and with less rational thought put into it. His postings are more a reflection on his experiences in life, they are mainly very coherent and rational, and he himself is not making any attacks of Asians. It is because R.H. is white, male, older or seems more knowledgeable that it's ok to attack him and not anybody else. Perhaps because he is less visible on the board, but I think that's a longshot.

Sorry for my lack of clarity and redundancy in this posting. If you didn't understand the point I was alluding to, perhaps re-read the post and glance over the thread.

Btw, this posting does not to take away from my viewpoint that the mask is intentionally extremely offensive and derogatory toward East Asians in general.

[Craig]

Does anybody happen to have a copy of the big picture of the mask and webpages for Disguise saved. I find the fooling a little surprising (since the mask information has been circulation on some other Asian boards for over 1.5 weeks), maybe the site was getting too many hits yesterday. Perhaps a visitor to this site did something ?

From AngryAsianMan.Com :

http://www.angryasianman.com/angry.html#kungfool

10.10.02
The racist Kung Fool costume seems to have been taken off the Disguise website. Angry calls and letters will do that, I suppose. But you can still purchase the costume and mask at various online retailers:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/halloweenshop/1115.html
http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/...de_id--200.html (http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--10160000,keyword--kung%20fool,de_id--200.html)
http://www.hauntmasters.com/cart/masks4.html



<!--EDIT|Craig|Oct 10 2002, 01:49 PM-->

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 05:38 AM
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/halloweenshop/1115.html
http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/...de_id--200.html (http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--10160000,keyword--kung%20fool,de_id--200.html)
http://www.hauntmasters.com/cart/masks4.html
Craig, you are da man...I was looking for such links...

Yeah, I noticed they took the pics down and for some reason I figured they would, sooner or later, so I saved a copy:P You can find it at the beginning of this thread or on the index page of the main site.

I'll post later re: your comments on personal attacks...

[achtungbaby]

Draft petition statement. Tear apart at will...


We, the undersigned, are shocked and disgusted by the sheer audacity of manufacturer Disguise in releasing their new "Kung-Fool" costume for Halloween:

http://yellowworld.org/images/articles/specific/10_02/disguise.gif

The costume consists of a black and white (Japanese) kimono, belt, vinyl half-cap, and rubber mask -- a buck-toothed, squinty-eyed caricature donning a headband with the Chinese character for "loser" inscribed. Until yesterday, the company's website ran the following description for the costume: Hiiiiiiiyaaaaa! Become a master of martial arts over night, or… well… maybe not, but have fun wearing the Disguise Kung Fool costume!

Certainly, this type of overt racism, passed off half-heartingly as "humor," is familiar to many Asians. Six months ago, clothing manufacturer Abercrombie and Fitch tried to push their "Wong Brothers Laundry Service" onto young adults and teens, claiming the shirts were "cheeky, irreverent, funny." Unfortunately, they actively chose to overlook that such depictions are blantantly offensive to many who've had to endure them, and indeed, have been used consistently and historically to marginalize an entire community.

More insidious this time, however, is the current attempt to perpetuate racist thought amongst children. While many of Disguise's costumes offer model cartoon heros, fictional characters and even infamous celebrities, no other costume singles out for ridicule a community like "Kung-Fool."

Therefore, we have formed this petition to articulate our growing frustration and impatience with corporate America's persistence in capitalizing on racism; to communicate unequivocally that Asian customers will not tolerate the spread of intolerant thought to children; and finally, to demand that Disguise issue an official apology and remove the Kung-Fool costumer immediately from it's 20,000 retailers nationwide.

[kasia]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 10 2002, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 10 2002, 04:00 AM
reinhard: &nbsp;and i'm laughing while i'm calling your mom a white trash whore. &nbsp;


i am so sick of this shit. &nbsp;if we don't take action, it will continue. &nbsp;i'm going to file a defamation suit against the company. &nbsp;can someone tell me what the chinese character on the mask says? &nbsp;and would anyone on yw like to be a potential plaintiff to this action? &nbsp;no attorneys fees involved. &nbsp;even if we don't win, i want them to have to spend money on attorney's fees.
1. Making general statements (not that this mask was ever intended as any kind of statement) is always different from personal offenses, e.g. I think it's ok to say something like "soldiers are murderers", but it's not alright to call any individual soldier a murderer (at least if he hasn't engaged in any combat etc.).
2. If you call somebodies mother a "white trash whore" it is by no means clear that this is intended as a joke (in fact in most cases it probably isn't), in the case of this silly mask nobody takes it seriously, do you think any white person is offended at masks that show white ugly witches with warts on their crooked noses (I used to actually own such a mask as a kid)? I mean look at Beavis 'n Butthead, if they were of any other race, the show would have been cancelled and the producer fined for "racism" a long time ago.
1. Just because you take less offense to personal attacks but not general attacks does not mean that everyone else should or that it is the more logical thing to do. in fact, you have provided no argument for why it would be more reasonable to do so. Indeed, I am more repulsed by general attacks towards my race simply because it is more likely to be based on a generalization. E.g., "Chinese people are sneaky." vs. "You are sneaky." The former statement is more blatantly racist. The latter depends on the context and is up for interpretation.

2. First, your statement that "nobody takes it seriously" is absurd, especially given the sampling of asian reactions you've read in this forum. or are you saying that we don't count? Secondly, as minorities in america, almost everything "asian" out there is a representation of us to whites. do you recall the wen ho lee scandal? the entire incident occurred because they thought he, as a chinese person, was sneaky. that is the only reason why they would have singled him out. that is an age-old stereotype of chinese males. the message sent by this costume will serve to perpetuate the same stereotype. it is a stereotype that every single asian man has to deal with--daily--whether he is aware of it or not. utiling witches as an analogy is not the same because there is no ongoing stereotype that all white women are witches. ...as least not the kind with crooked noses.

out of curiosity, do you also visit gay internet forums to tell the members there what they "should" and "should not" get offended by? do you think that they are "poor, traumatized youth as well?

[kimpossible]

Change kimono to 'gi' or karate uniform and 'heros' needs and e.

That's my nit-picky input. :nerd:

[kasia]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 01:23 PM
Not that I agree with R.H.'s views, but I have noticed that several people have attacked him personally more than anything else. He isn't the one who has said the most about the mask not being offensive. Yes, he is seeing the world through different eyes and can't relate, so many things don't affect him in the same manner as they do many of us. I still don't think he warrants a personal attack.

There are many people on this board that are non-Asian or are not full-Asian and as long as this board is like that (unlike the site where AB probably originally got the information about the mask) we have to realize that their experiences in life are heavily influenced on what they look like. So, they will have different exposures, experiences, opportunities, lack of opportunities and feel things we may not feel. Also, they may not feel things we feel.

That being said, why have several people attacked him in particular and not somebody else on the board who has said more and with less rational thought put into it. His postings are more a reflection on his experiences in life, they are mainly very coherent and rational, and he himself is not making any attacks of Asians. It is because R.H. is white, male, older or seems more knowledgeable that it's ok to attack him and not anybody else. Perhaps because he is less visible on the board, but I think that's a longshot.

Sorry for my lack of clarity and redundancy in this posting. If you didn't understand the point I was alluding to, perhaps re-read the post and glance over the thread.

Btw, this posting does not to take away from my viewpoint that the mask is intentionally extremely offensive and derogatory toward East Asians in general.
my white trash whore comment to him was not intended to attack him personally but rather to make the point of why one would be offended by such a comment. i think he understood and interpreted it in the same way that i intended.

when i see anything out there that depicts an asian male, i immediately think of the asian males i know. and when it is of a sneaky asian male, i immediately think of my grandfathers because this was the bullshit they had to put it with in their time. additiontionally, statements, racially discriminatory and offensive ones, can be made verbally but also through caricatures and now masks. the costume, to me, then, makes the clear statement that chinese men are sneaky. for a white person to come on the board and to tell me that i am wrong and, in addition, am a "poor, victimized, traumatized youth" is like a slap in the face *and* a personal attack. my statement about his mother is no more repugnant than his statement that we, as asians, are dumb for taking issue with this racist costume.

[achtungbaby]

http://petition.yellowworld.org/

Please sign up. I'm going to now pass out.

[Craig]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 10 2002, 04:47 PM
my white trash whore comment to him was not intended to attack him personally but rather to make the point of why one would be offended by such a comment. i think he understood and interpreted it in the same way that i intended.

when i see anything out there that depicts an asian male, i immediately think of the asian males i know. and when it is of a sneaky asian male, i immediately think of my grandfathers because this was the bullshit they had to put it with in their time. additiontionally, statements, racially discriminatory and offensive ones, can be made verbally but also through caricatures and now masks. the costume, to me, then, makes the clear statement that chinese men are sneaky. for a white person to come on the board and to tell me that i am wrong and, in addition, am a "poor, victimized, traumatized youth" is like a slap in the face *and* a personal attack. my statement about his mother is no more repugnant than his statement that we, as asians, are dumb for taking issue with this racist costume.
As somebody who goes through my life dealing with the crap one has to go through as an "Asian" male in the U.S.A. I definitely know why one would and should take offensive. However, growing up and spending most of my life in the U.S.A. primarily living and dealing with whites for the first 2/3 of my life, I can see why R.H. personally doesn't find the mask offensive. He doesn't have to go through the B.S. I am so familiar with.

The main issue I had was that why is it alright for people to attack him as an individual. Almost nobody attacked the Asian female, angel_nympho, that was posting all the comments about how there's nothing wrong with the mask. If you scroll back through the posts you'll see that the bulk of the posts defending the mask were not the work of R.H.

I find it more a slap in the face for an Asian female to be defending the mask. She herself used the wording "white supremacist" to describe herself earlier in the thread. Why the difference in criticism? The feedback toward her seemed more to be coddling and non-direct. She should have an closer viewpoint being Asian and I'm assuming having male relatives. That's the double standard I take issue with.

I think I get more offensive out of the masks depicting Asian males as repulsive and foreign rather than sneaky. The sneaky stereotype isn't as common as it used to be say 100 years ago. I think very few Americans will have that ingrained viewpoint.



<!--EDIT|Craig|Oct 10 2002, 06:06 PM-->

[deez nuts]

For the record, I made no personal attacks towards Angel or Reinhard in regards to this matter.

[amietron]

Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor
200 Constitution Ave NW
Washington, D.C. 20210
202-693-5000

Norman Mineta, Transportation Secretary
400 7th St SW
Washington, D.C. 20590
202-366-4000

Governor Gary Locke
Office of the Governor
PO Box 40002
Olympia, WA 98504-0002
Governor’s Office (360) 902-4111
Fax # (360) 753-4110

Daniel Inouye, Sen. Hawaii
722 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-1102
Telephone: 202-224-3934
Fax: 202-224-6747

Daniel Akaka, Sen. Hawaii
141 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
Telephone: 202-224-6361
Fax: 202-224-2126

Rod Paige, Secretary of Education
400 Maryland Ave SE
Washington, D.C. 20202
202-401-2000

still need to get:
Ben Cayetano, Gov. of Hawaii
George Nakano, (D-Torrance)
Wilma Chan, (D- Oakland)
Carol Liu, (D- La Canada Flintridge)
Judy Chu, (D- Monterey Park)

but i gotta do it later cus now i'm late for school. ;x
i'm down with being radical. =)

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 10 2002, 04:47 PM
my white trash whore comment to him was not intended to attack him personally but rather to make the point of why one would be offended by such a comment. i think he understood and interpreted it in the same way that i intended.

when i see anything out there that depicts an asian male, i immediately think of the asian males i know. and when it is of a sneaky asian male, i immediately think of my grandfathers because this was the bullshit they had to put it with in their time. additiontionally, statements, racially discriminatory and offensive ones, can be made verbally but also through caricatures and now masks. the costume, to me, then, makes the clear statement that chinese men are sneaky. for a white person to come on the board and to tell me that i am wrong and, in addition, am a "poor, victimized, traumatized youth" is like a slap in the face *and* a personal attack. my statement about his mother is no more repugnant than his statement that we, as asians, are dumb for taking issue with this racist costume.
As somebody who goes through my life dealing with the crap one has to go through as an "Asian" male in the U.S.A. I definitely know why one would and should take offensive. However, growing up and spending most of my life in the U.S.A. primarily living and dealing with whites for the first 2/3 of my life, I can see why R.H. personally doesn't find the mask offensive. He doesn't have to go through the B.S. I am so familiar with.

The main issue I had was that why is it alright for people to attack him as an individual. Almost nobody attacked the Asian female, angel_nympho, that was posting all the comments about how there's nothing wrong with the mask. If you scroll back through the posts you'll see that the bulk of the posts defending the mask were not the work of R.H.

I find it more a slap in the face for an Asian female to be defending the mask. She herself used the wording "white supremacist" to describe herself earlier in the thread. Why the difference in criticism? The feedback toward her seemed more to be coddling and non-direct. She should have an closer viewpoint being Asian and I'm assuming having male relatives. That's the double standard I take issue with.

I think I get more offensive out of the masks depicting Asian males as repulsive and foreign rather than sneaky. The sneaky stereotype isn't as common as it used to be say 100 years ago. I think very few Americans will have that ingrained viewpoint.
Oh wow, maybe YOU'RE the white supremacist of the group. Umm.. haha, joke.

But yeah, go back and read my posts. I said a lot about how I see why it's offensive and that it is pretty pointless. I never defended the stupid costume, but I DID say that there's no more reason to pull it off the shelves as there is reason to pull the stupid trailor trash costumes off the shelves.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I didn't like the costume, but wasn't particularly as offended as any of the other people on the forum.

If you'd like to make personal attacks against me, go right ahead. I give you my permission. And trust me, on this forum, I've been anything BUT coddled.

[Craig]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 10 2002, 05:59 PM
http://petition.yellowworld.org/

Please sign up. &nbsp;I'm going to now pass out.

Sorry, have a few comments about the petition.
you used the wording "yesterday", wouldn't it be better to give an exact date since you probably will want to get more signatures than one can collect in only a day
you also mentioned that "Asian customers" would not tolerate it, perhaps it would be more effective if you said something to the effect of "Asian and non-Asian alike" ... will not accept such blatantly racist images toward Asians; they may not care so much about what just "Asians" think since they don't make up a large percentage of the consumer market (i.e. look at all the images of Native Americans as mascots)
you mentioned 20,000 retailers, perhaps if you just left it at some like "all"
maybe the close-up shot of the mask might be more effective, or useful as an additional shot
also agree with Hello_Hapa's input on the costume, it looks like a karate uniform, not a kimono

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 10:05 AM
The main issue I had was that why is it alright for people to attack him as an individual. Almost nobody attacked the Asian female, angel_nympho, that was posting all the comments about how there's nothing wrong with the mask. If you scroll back through the posts you'll see that the bulk of the posts defending the mask were not the work of R.H.

I find it more a slap in the face for an Asian female to be defending the mask. She herself used the wording "white supremacist" to describe herself earlier in the thread. Why the difference in criticism? The feedback toward her seemed more to be coddling and non-direct. She should have an closer viewpoint being Asian and I'm assuming having male relatives. That's the double standard I take issue with.
I think overall Angel does a good job questioning politics and social issues for a teenager (forgive me Angel! I'm old). She may not have all the answers the way we want them but she sees the importance of such issues. I think she's the youngest one to continually have a presence in Rant Room.

That being said, kasia should be able to take issue with whomever she pleases. If she disagrees with Reinhard, I don't see why she needs to go through Angel first like it's a gauntlet.

Craig, I do see what you're taking issue with but I'm not sure it's a solid argument to have kasia take Angel to task when the remarks and sentiment she is specifically debating are Reinhard's. I think Angel understands this, and wouldn't expect you to withhold if you wanted to respond directly to her.

I understand the point you are making, however.



<!--EDIT|Hello_Hapa|Oct 10 2002, 11:30 AM-->

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 10 2002, 05:59 PM
http://petition.yellowworld.org/

Please sign up. I'm going to now pass out.

Sorry, have a few comments about the petition.
you used the wording "yesterday", wouldn't it be better to give an exact date since you probably will want to get more signatures than one can collect in only a day
you also mentioned that "Asian customers" would not tolerate it, perhaps it would be more effective if you said something to the effect of "Asian and non-Asian alike" ... will not accept such blatantly racist images toward Asians; they may not care so much about what just "Asians" think since they don't make up a large percentage of the consumer market (i.e. look at all the images of Native Americans as mascots)
you mentioned 20,000 retailers, perhaps if you just left it at some like "all"
maybe the close-up shot of the mask might be more effective, or useful as an additional shot
also agree with Hello_Hapa's input on the costume, it looks like a karate uniform, not a kimono
Don't be sorry, damnit!! I was hoping for as much input as possible:) If this was something I could give a lot of time to it'd be one thing, but everyone's on a clock and Halloween's around da corner...

I think those are all great suggestions and ones that can be easily added...re: the close up shot...I agree, it's much more effective...I just don't know how Hiro does that in photoshop...!

hiro, help!

oh yeah, re: "kimono"...i should rephrase to emphasize that that was verbatim from the site...

[Craig]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 10 2002, 07:19 PM
Sorry, have a few comments about the petition.
you used the wording "yesterday", wouldn't it be better to give an exact date since you probably will want to get more signatures than one can collect in only a day
you also mentioned that "Asian customers" would not tolerate it, perhaps it would be more effective if you said something to the effect of "Asian and non-Asian alike" ... will not accept such blatantly racist images toward Asians; they may not care so much about what just "Asians" think since they don't make up a large percentage of the consumer market (i.e. look at all the images of Native Americans as mascots)
you mentioned 20,000 retailers, perhaps if you just left it at some like "all"
maybe the close-up shot of the mask might be more effective, or useful as an additional shot
also agree with Hello_Hapa's input on the costume, it looks like a karate uniform, not a kimono
Don't be sorry, damnit!! I was hoping for as much input as possible:) If this was something I could give a lot of time to it'd be one thing, but everyone's on a clock and Halloween's around da corner...

I think those are all great suggestions and ones that can be easily added...re: the close up shot...I agree, it's much more effective...I just don't know how Hiro does that in photoshop...!

hiro, help!

oh yeah, re: "kimono"...i should rephrase to emphasize that that was verbatim from the site...[/quote]

This is not as good as the original close up on the Disguise website as it has a couple of obvious modifications, but it's better. Just save it before it's taken down.

http://www.hauntmasters.com/cart/images/di...se/kungfool.jpg (http://www.hauntmasters.com/cart/images/disguise/kungfool.jpg)

http://www.hauntmasters.com/cart/images/disguise/kungfool.jpg

Btw, I meant sorry for not getting the comments in before you posted the petition.

[kimpossible]

*ahem* Hito. Not Hiro. Though Hitohiro is a name.

[achtungbaby]

Bah, Hito, Hiro...y'all look alike to me.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 11:32 AM
Btw, I meant sorry for not getting the comments in before you posted the petition.
Ahhh. Well then damn you!:P

[Craig]

Just in case anybody was quickly glancing over the posts and didn't click on the links. Here is the original text from AngryAsianMale and accopying image.

http://www.angryasianman.com/angry.html
http://www.angryasianman.com/images/angry/...ngfool-mask.jpg (http://www.angryasianman.com/images/angry/kungfool-mask.jpg)

10.01.02
http://www.angryasianman.com/images/angry/kungfool-mask.jpg

Check out this face. Disgusting right? It's actually a mask. Bruised, buck-toothed, wearing a handband with a Chinese character. Find it offensive? Does it make you angry? It gets worse: this thing is being sold as a freakin' HALLOWEEN COSTUME. Manufactured by a company called Disguise, the full costume is called "Kung Fool." The description of the costume reads:
Hiiiiiiiyaaaaa! Become a master of martial arts over night, or... well... maybe not, but have fun wearing the Disguise Kung Fool costume! Includes: Black and white kimono, belt and vinyl half-cap.

What the hell? KIMONO? This is just one big, ugly, confused, messed-up Asian stereotype. Honestly, is this company TRYING to be offensive? To produce and market something this offensive truly takes some effort. Does it come with the nunchaku too? Why not throw in some chopsticks for good measure? Why does Disguise feel that it's appropriate to caricature Asian stereotypes? In that case, are other ethnic/racial stereotypes fair game too?

Check out this online article about Disguise. The company's marketing director says, "The symbol on the headband is the Chinese character for 'loser.'"

Just in time for Halloween! This is truly disturbing. Imagine a kid showing up at your door wearing this thing, asking for some friggin' candy. You'd have to restrain me. I mean, I can handle ninjas and karate uniforms showing up at my front porch. But this is just jacked. Schoolyard taunts are bad enough without crap like this perpetuating the "kung fu clown" stereotype. And this racist thing is being sold all over the place. You can actually purchase it at Party America, Party City and other party/costume specialty stores all around the country. Disguise even provides with a convenient "Where to Buy" store locator.

Does this make you angry? Here's some contact info for Disguise's Main Office & Warehouse:
Disguise
11906 Tech Center Ct.
Poway, CA 92064
858.391.3600
858.391.3601 (fax)

Here's the info for Disguise's National Sales Office:
Disguise
200 Fifth Ave., Ste 430
New York, NY 10010
212.727.3267
212.727.7273 (fax)

All of this info can be found here. Write 'em, call 'em up, tell 'em exactly what you think. You know what I think: that's racist!

***(Props to Michael G. via Eugenia...)

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 10 2002, 04:47 PM
my white trash whore comment to him was not intended to attack him personally but rather to make the point of why one would be offended by such a comment. i think he understood and interpreted it in the same way that i intended.

when i see anything out there that depicts an asian male, i immediately think of the asian males i know. and when it is of a sneaky asian male, i immediately think of my grandfathers because this was the bullshit they had to put it with in their time. additiontionally, statements, racially discriminatory and offensive ones, can be made verbally but also through caricatures and now masks. the costume, to me, then, makes the clear statement that chinese men are sneaky. for a white person to come on the board and to tell me that i am wrong and, in addition, am a "poor, victimized, traumatized youth" is like a slap in the face *and* a personal attack. my statement about his mother is no more repugnant than his statement that we, as asians, are dumb for taking issue with this racist costume.
As somebody who goes through my life dealing with the crap one has to go through as an "Asian" male in the U.S.A. I definitely know why one would and should take offensive. However, growing up and spending most of my life in the U.S.A. primarily living and dealing with whites for the first 2/3 of my life, I can see why R.H. personally doesn't find the mask offensive. He doesn't have to go through the B.S. I am so familiar with.

The main issue I had was that why is it alright for people to attack him as an individual. Almost nobody attacked the Asian female, angel_nympho, that was posting all the comments about how there's nothing wrong with the mask. If you scroll back through the posts you'll see that the bulk of the posts defending the mask were not the work of R.H.

I find it more a slap in the face for an Asian female to be defending the mask. She herself used the wording "white supremacist" to describe herself earlier in the thread. Why the difference in criticism? The feedback toward her seemed more to be coddling and non-direct. She should have an closer viewpoint being Asian and I'm assuming having male relatives. That's the double standard I take issue with.

I think I get more offensive out of the masks depicting Asian males as repulsive and foreign rather than sneaky. The sneaky stereotype isn't as common as it used to be say 100 years ago. I think very few Americans will have that ingrained viewpoint.
Oh yeah, and BTW, what RH said wasn't the same kinds of things that I was saying. So if somebody wants to argue with him, they can. And if somebody wants to argue with me, they can. We're not a team or something. Nobody has to argue with BOTH of us.



<!--EDIT|angel nympho|Oct 10 2002, 07:49 PM-->

[kasia]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 10 2002, 04:47 PM
my white trash whore comment to him was not intended to attack him personally but rather to make the point of why one would be offended by such a comment. i think he understood and interpreted it in the same way that i intended.

when i see anything out there that depicts an asian male, i immediately think of the asian males i know. and when it is of a sneaky asian male, i immediately think of my grandfathers because this was the bullshit they had to put it with in their time. additiontionally, statements, racially discriminatory and offensive ones, can be made verbally but also through caricatures and now masks. the costume, to me, then, makes the clear statement that chinese men are sneaky. for a white person to come on the board and to tell me that i am wrong and, in addition, am a "poor, victimized, traumatized youth" is like a slap in the face *and* a personal attack. my statement about his mother is no more repugnant than his statement that we, as asians, are dumb for taking issue with this racist costume.
As somebody who goes through my life dealing with the crap one has to go through as an "Asian" male in the U.S.A. I definitely know why one would and should take offensive. However, growing up and spending most of my life in the U.S.A. primarily living and dealing with whites for the first 2/3 of my life, I can see why R.H. personally doesn't find the mask offensive. He doesn't have to go through the B.S. I am so familiar with.

The main issue I had was that why is it alright for people to attack him as an individual. Almost nobody attacked the Asian female, angel_nympho, that was posting all the comments about how there's nothing wrong with the mask. If you scroll back through the posts you'll see that the bulk of the posts defending the mask were not the work of R.H.

I find it more a slap in the face for an Asian female to be defending the mask. She herself used the wording "white supremacist" to describe herself earlier in the thread. Why the difference in criticism? The feedback toward her seemed more to be coddling and non-direct. She should have an closer viewpoint being Asian and I'm assuming having male relatives. That's the double standard I take issue with.

I think I get more offensive out of the masks depicting Asian males as repulsive and foreign rather than sneaky. The sneaky stereotype isn't as common as it used to be say 100 years ago. I think very few Americans will have that ingrained viewpoint.
i feel it is an assertion of power when a white male tells me what i should and should not be offended by--when it comes to racism, that is. i do not feel the same way towards a fellow asian.

if, for example, i enter a gay forum, as a straight female, i would not be so quick to criticize their reactions towards certain issues even if i do not share them. i would fucking *listen* first. and reinhard did not do that--it was in the third post in this thread that he called all of us, as asians, "poor traumatized, victimized youth."

a person just needs to know his place. it's not like we, as an asian community, have a strong collective voice. this forum was started, in fact, so that we can form some sort of a political consciousness. with such a great lack of cohesion as a community, we specifically said before creating this forum that it would be nice to have a place just for asians to discuss sort out our own issues. not that whites are not welcome, but they should listen and understand our point of views first before jumping to criticism. that is the respect that we are asking for.

[SharingIsCaring]

Originally posted by wylin@Oct 10 2002, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 9 2002, 04:57 PM
I'd be more offended at the Kung Fool costume if it said "Asian guy costume." &nbsp;But whatever. &nbsp;It's not a big deal to me... Sorry to be the white supremacist of the board, but I highly doubt the makers of the costume meant for it to explicity show what Asian people look like.
true it didnt offend me either that much or at all. lets make a korean costume then to see the offensive nature since the kung fool is i chinaman representation.

lets dress the man version:
- Tight black shirt
- Gucchi or D&G belt
- loose but not baggy nor tight black slacks
- Nice Jacket
- Mask w/ enebriated look and Cigarette in mouth
- Dyed hair wig
- Bottle of Crown
- Taekwondo bandana
- name gludious the ultimate korean club waiter.

Female
- Guchi, versaci, emporio armani shirt
- dark make up overdone makeup w/ whore blush and batman eyebrows
- tight form fitting slacks black color
- Nice tight back jacket w/ crown royal stain and semen stain toward top
-alcohol smell perfume
- bowl of dog stew and kimchee

thats bout as offensive as the chinese one was to me. there u go.
HAHAHAHAHa sorry its funny.. but he does have a point... the "kung Fool" costume is i think aimed more towards "chinese".. i saw it in a ad from some costume shop.. pissed me of.. i wonder what racisit idiot came up with that? :angry:

[kasia]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 06:05 PM
I think I get more offensive out of the masks depicting Asian males as repulsive and foreign rather than sneaky. The sneaky stereotype isn't as common as it used to be say 100 years ago. I think very few Americans will have that ingrained viewpoint.
even given that the "chinese spy planes" incident and the wen ho lee scandal happened within the past two years?

[Hito]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 10 2002, 12:33 PM
Bah, Hito, Hiro...y'all look alike to me.
That’s Hito as in Hitoshi :D
I knew there was a reason my ears were burning.

What did u need in Photoshop?


Stuff like this makes me want to reexamine my pacifist stance.
All I can say about this is some cracka came around in some kind of al jolson get up talking about "mammy"...
Dayum I just don’t think I could not do something.

The reason white folks reactions to the red neck image is not one of offence for the most part is that that particular image is offset in the popular media by a majority positive images.
The heroic police officer/fire fighter/Doctor/vampire slayer
Where Blacks, Asians and Latinos have majority negative images in the media the crook/sneek/rapist/forign enemy

I've come to understand how these images affect us differently since my last go round here in the "Rant Room"
And have come to appreciate the fact that no one of us has the right to portray another person in a way that they might find offensive.


Another tactic you might try is this.
Any of you who are inclined to buy a costume this year or have kids or little siblings who might.

Find a costume shop/website that does not carry offensive costumes like this.
Buy your costumes and stuff from them.
Then let the other places like disguise.com know about the money that they lost because of their shortsighted ness

I heard about some wiccans who did that up in Portland with a shop that was still pushing the wart-nosed green witch image that they were trying to get past.


Just as a point of fairness.
They DO offer an Ensign Hoshi Sato Uniform

<img src='http://www.disguise.com/db_images/5746.gif[/img] (http://www.disguise.com/html/product_detail.cfm?ID=5746)

I have never seen the young ensign in heels that high tho... :blink:

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Hito@Oct 10 2002, 11:44 PM
What did u need in Photoshop?
It's cool, I found it, thanks:)

Course...you're always welcome to design some kick ass mini banner or button for this particular cause:)

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Hito@Oct 11 2002, 02:44 AM



All I can say about this is some cracka came around in some kind of al jolson get up talking about "mammy"...
Dayum I just don’t think I could not do something.


I agree.

This is one instance where Asians and Blacks share a commonality. This would be akin to what Blacks had to endure with the whole al jolson, bullshit.

[SunWuKong]

damn, look what i've been missing... didn't i tell you guys to try not to kill each other??? hahhah anyway... yes please keep the personal attacks down.

it's very simple why we have to get the word out that we're offended, and take action against something like this. each group in this country has to fight its own fight. they wouldn't even have considered for a second to make a costume of a black thug with a gun in one hand and a bucket of fried chicken in the other. and perhaps reinhard would think that nobody would take that seriously and that it's actually funny, but i certainly wouldn't.

i absolutely agree with kasia, white people telling us what we should or should not be offended with is the same as (even though it is probably unintentional) subjugating us. i feel that asian america had never been able to develop in its own accord. either we hide in our ethnic enclaves and feel cornered by white people, or we are living in the shadows of white people, always comparing ourselves to them. many asian americans are trying not to be completely overwhelmed by assimilation and total americanization, and to adopt white people's opinion of what would be considered offensive to us would be a truly sad thing.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Hito@Oct 10 2002, 11:44 PM
Stuff like this makes me want to reexamine my pacifist stance.
All I can say about this is some cracka came around in some kind of al jolson get up talking about "mammy"...
Dayum I just don’t think I could not do something.

The reason white folks reactions to the red neck image is not one of offence for the most part is that that particular image is offset in the popular media by a majority positive images.

And, if you compare the redneck costume to the Kung Fool costume, you'll notice the redneck costume has an obvious white guy with uglied up minimized 'white' person make up accessories. The Kung Fool costume is designed to self-contain an ugly and demeaning ethnic charicature.

No one but a white person is going to be able to wear the Caucasian skin toned bits of costume required for the redneck costume, while the Kung Fool is designed to be a severe form of yellow-face makeup. Get real, no Asian is going to wear the costume and I'm pretty sure the 'model' in the ad is a white guy.

I agree with Hito and CSB. This is one issue that all non-whites can relate to.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Hito@Oct 11 2002, 07:44 AM
The reason white folks reactions to the red neck image is not one of offence for the most part is that that particular image is offset in the popular media by a majority positive images.
The heroic police officer/fire fighter/Doctor/vampire slayer
Where Blacks, Asians and Latinos have majority negative images in the media the crook/sneek/rapist/forign enemy
This might be off topic, but I've actually seen a lot more positive Asians in the media than a lot of people fail to mention. I've seen heroic characters portrayed by Asians, and I've seen role models portrayed by Asians, and I've seen typical normal people portrayed by Asians. I've yet to see a crook be Asian, however.

[ EDIT : Not to say that ONLY positive images are portrayed in media. Just saying that there's a lot more out there than people give the media credit for. ]



<!--EDIT|angel nympho|Oct 11 2002, 09:35 PM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 11 2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Hito@Oct 11 2002, 07:44 AM
The reason white folks reactions to the red neck image is not one of offence for the most part is that that particular image is offset in the popular media by a majority positive images.
The heroic police officer/fire fighter/Doctor/vampire slayer
Where Blacks, Asians and Latinos have majority negative images in the media the crook/sneek/rapist/forign enemy
This might be off topic, but I've actually seen a lot more positive Asians in the media than a lot of people fail to mention. I've seen heroic characters portrayed by Asians, and I've seen role models portrayed by Asians, and I've seen typical normal people portrayed by Asians. I've yet to see a crook be Asian, however.

[ EDIT : Not to say that ONLY positive images are portrayed in media. Just saying that there's a lot more out there than people give the media credit for. ]
lethal weapon 4?
the corrupter?
art of war?

and that's just off the top of my head. but i concede that there had been less "crook" asian portrayal in the 90s than in the 80s. i guess you are a little too young to remember.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 11 2002, 01:35 PM
Just saying that there's a lot more out there than people give the media credit for. ]
Okay, take a step back from how you or I or anyone else feels about the media's treatment of Asian Americans.

Now take a good look at that mask.

It's weird that we're all Halloween costumes this year.

[wrathfulgrape]

Hey there, ACHTUNG...well, your petition did it..and I'm finally a member of your very impressive looking site!
Thanks for being the awesome AA Watchdog that you are!
WOOF!
Pretty disgusting stuff, that costume...I'll be circulating that petition to my friends as well as to my company's Diversity Awareness group...

It's funny how we keep bumping into each other, eh?

*pet pet pet*
Hope you are being good on the West Coast!
:rolleyes:

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 11 2002, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 11 2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Hito@Oct 11 2002, 07:44 AM
The reason white folks reactions to the red neck image is not one of offence for the most part is that that particular image is offset in the popular media by a majority positive images.
The heroic police officer/fire fighter/Doctor/vampire slayer
Where Blacks, Asians and Latinos have majority negative images in the media the crook/sneek/rapist/forign enemy
This might be off topic, but I've actually seen a lot more positive Asians in the media than a lot of people fail to mention. I've seen heroic characters portrayed by Asians, and I've seen role models portrayed by Asians, and I've seen typical normal people portrayed by Asians. I've yet to see a crook be Asian, however.

[ EDIT : Not to say that ONLY positive images are portrayed in media. Just saying that there's a lot more out there than people give the media credit for. ]
lethal weapon 4?
the corrupter?
art of war?

and that's just off the top of my head. but i concede that there had been less "crook" asian portrayal in the 90s than in the 80s. i guess you are a little too young to remember.
The View?
Ally McBeal?
ER?

Off the top of mine.

[Craig]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 11 2002, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 06:05 PM
I think I get more offensive out of the masks depicting Asian males as repulsive and foreign rather than sneaky. &nbsp;The sneaky stereotype isn't as common as it used to be say 100 years ago. &nbsp;I think very few Americans will have that ingrained viewpoint.
even given that the "chinese spy planes" incident and the wen ho lee scandal happened within the past two years?

I think that most Americans have extremely short attention spans and do not watch the news. If they did they would remember, for instance, that it was America that put Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein in power. However, that's another topic. Sneaky is just a temporary blip on the radar that will again fade.

It's the popular culture like movies that give a continual reinforcement of concepts and ideas that is more of an issue.

From my personal experiences, I think most white males (who are controlling/influencing the media) see Asian males more as a threat than anything else. They think we are smarter, harder working, etc. Basically that we have the potential to take away their power.

We've basically been the face of the enemy for the last 60+ years. First it was the Japanese in WWII, then the Koreans in the Korean War, then the Vietnamese in Vietnam War. Short interlude for the Russians (who aren't exactly 100% European, but), then the Japanese again and now the Chinese.

I see a "White is Right" mentality, where whatever they do is correct and whatever anyone else does is wrong. Everyone else in their eyes is somewhat dirty and underhanded, but I don't find the contemporary portrayal of Asian Male's underhandedness vastly different than Arabs or Blacks.

People in the workplace are being singled out because they're different, not for their particular racial difference. There is so much backstabbing and making excuses just to get rid of the person that's out of place.

Granted, I have seen and read many things of a historical nature, and have definitely seen the sneaky stereotype in political cartoons are articles of the eras gone by like during the Opium Wars and the Boxer Rebellion.

Sneaky is more of an excuse for the white man's shortcomings and insecurities. I am sure the idea will re-emerge by some who won't come to grips that even though the odds are in their favor, they didn't always win out.

I think the World Cup 2002 has probably don't more to influence the idea that Asians are sneaky. By the Koreans getting so far in the World Cup, we saw the European press ripping things up away how things were unfair. Those Koreans musted have bribed the officials or something, they couldn't have played better, or had more endurance or better teamwork.

My guess is if most Americans thought anything about W.H.Lee, they may be thinking that Asians are oversensitive about race. For the Spy Plane incident, I basically only talked to some of my Chinese friends and wasn't paying attention to the American whining. Anyway, I think that idea has been overriden by their interest in Britney Spears, Friends or Sex in the City.

The news has much less of an influence to most people than Hollywood. Even among Asians, the community is much more like what you see in AsianAvenue than AsianGuy.

Granted I read the European press and the Asian news sites more than I do American since I'm sick of the bias and may not be seeing everything, but I am probably seeing a lot more of the US News than 90+% of the white Americans.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Oct 12 2002, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 12 2002, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 11 2002, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Oct 11 2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Hito@Oct 11 2002, 07:44 AM
The reason white folks reactions to the red neck image is not one of offence for the most part is that that particular image is offset in the popular media by a majority positive images.
The heroic police officer/fire fighter/Doctor/vampire slayer
Where Blacks, Asians and Latinos have majority negative images in the media the crook/sneek/rapist/forign enemy
This might be off topic, but I've actually seen a lot more positive Asians in the media than a lot of people fail to mention. I've seen heroic characters portrayed by Asians, and I've seen role models portrayed by Asians, and I've seen typical normal people portrayed by Asians. I've yet to see a crook be Asian, however.

[ EDIT : Not to say that ONLY positive images are portrayed in media. Just saying that there's a lot more out there than people give the media credit for. ]
lethal weapon 4?
the corrupter?
art of war?

and that's just off the top of my head. but i concede that there had been less "crook" asian portrayal in the 90s than in the 80s. i guess you are a little too young to remember.
The View?
Ally McBeal?
ER?

Off the top of mine.

How about Rush Hour 1 & 2 (movies that were blockbusters, yet somehow showed Chan and Tucker as "clowns"?)
Yeah, they were blockbusters because they were funny. People like to laugh. Personally, I didn't think those films were degrating or whatever at all. I thought they were FUNNY, just like everybody else. Asians in those movies weren't portrayed like.. well like anything, I don't think. I think the got their jobs done, did them well, and were pretty damn good at it. At least Jackie Chan. I don't think they were "acting like clowns," I think it was a comedy based movie, and, like other comedies, a lot of it has to do with situation comedy... Given, there was a great deal of racially charged humor, but I think if you know me at all by my posts, that sort of stuff doesn't really bother me as much as it does a lot of others.



And how about Ally McBeal? The Asian woman is powerful, independent, smart, and successful.



<!--EDIT|angel nympho|Oct 12 2002, 08:28 AM-->

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 11 2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 11 2002, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 10 2002, 06:05 PM
I think I get more offensive out of the masks depicting Asian males as repulsive and foreign rather than sneaky. The sneaky stereotype isn't as common as it used to be say 100 years ago. I think very few Americans will have that ingrained viewpoint.
even given that the "chinese spy planes" incident and the wen ho lee scandal happened within the past two years?

I think that most Americans have extremely short attention spans and do not watch the news. If they did they would remember, for instance, that it was America that put Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein in power. However, that's another topic. Sneaky is just a temporary blip on the radar that will again fade.

It's the popular culture like movies that give a continual reinforcement of concepts and ideas that is more of an issue.

From my personal experiences, I think most white males (who are controlling/influencing the media) see Asian males more as a threat than anything else. They think we are smarter, harder working, etc. Basically that we have the potential to take away their power.

We've basically been the face of the enemy for the last 60+ years. First it was the Japanese in WWII, then the Koreans in the Korean War, then the Vietnamese in Vietnam War. Short interlude for the Russians (who aren't exactly 100% European, but), then the Japanese again and now the Chinese.

I see a "White is Right" mentality, where whatever they do is correct and whatever anyone else does is wrong. Everyone else in their eyes is somewhat dirty and underhanded, but I don't find the contemporary portrayal of Asian Male's underhandedness vastly different than Arabs or Blacks.

People in the workplace are being singled out because they're different, not for their particular racial difference. There is so much backstabbing and making excuses just to get rid of the person that's out of place.

Granted, I have seen and read many things of a historical nature, and have definitely seen the sneaky stereotype in political cartoons are articles of the eras gone by like during the Opium Wars and the Boxer Rebellion.

Sneaky is more of an excuse for the white man's shortcomings and insecurities. I am sure the idea will re-emerge by some who won't come to grips that even though the odds are in their favor, they didn't always win out.

I think the World Cup 2002 has probably don't more to influence the idea that Asians are sneaky. By the Koreans getting so far in the World Cup, we saw the European press ripping things up away how things were unfair. Those Koreans musted have bribed the officials or something, they couldn't have played better, or had more endurance or better teamwork.

My guess is if most Americans thought anything about W.H.Lee, they may be thinking that Asians are oversensitive about race. For the Spy Plane incident, I basically only talked to some of my Chinese friends and wasn't paying attention to the American whining. Anyway, I think that idea has been overriden by their interest in Britney Spears, Friends or Sex in the City.

The news has much less of an influence to most people than Hollywood. Even among Asians, the community is much more like what you see in AsianAvenue than AsianGuy.

Granted I read the European press and the Asian news sites more than I do American since I'm sick of the bias and may not be seeing everything, but I am probably seeing a lot more of the US News than 90+% of the white Americans.
Well said, bro.

The sneaky thing is so played out over the centuries. I think we're more of a threat issue now. Not disgreeing with Kasia, it does happen. And the Dr. Lee scandal and the US Spy plane incident is a prime example of it.

But it seems to me, we're sneaky when it's convenient for "them" to call us sneaky. That's the way I see it.

[Reinhard H.]

Ok, so I seem to have created some controversy here. So let me state once more that I'm aware that the mask may be offensive to some Asians, but this whole victimization ideology has turned wild and people see "racism" where nothing more than a joke is intended. If somebody cracks a joke about women it doesn't mean that he hates women or has any problems with them, the same way if you laugh about Roseanne, it doesn't mean that you think she