PDA

View Full Version : How old is too old to have a baby?


sOKaLiBoY
01-24-2005, 05:09 PM
Can someone ever be too old to be a parent? Several recent cases involving older single women having children have helped bring this issue into the spotlight and make it a topic of national debate.

At first glance, the question appears pretty straightforward — but it isn’t. In order to answer it there must be an agreement both on what would make a potential parent “too old” and who would enforce rules that limit access to reproductive technologies based on age.

So, how old is too old? Was Larry King of CNN too old when he had a child with his seventh wife at age 70? Was Cheryl Tiegs who had twins at 52 too old? Geena Davis, twins at 48? Tony Randall who had a child at 77 and died a few years later? James Doohan (Scotty from the original Star Trek) who had children at 80? Donald Trump, 58, now making menacing reproductive noises in the context of his widely publicized third marriage? It is very hard to draw an absolute line and say what age is too old to become a parent, although the idea of Donald Trump mating makes the project a particularly compelling one.

The case of the 'world's oldest mom'
Assistance in knowing how old is too old has now been provided by a Romanian woman named Adriana Iliescu. The 66-year-old unmarried professor and writer gave birth by emergency Caesarean section to a baby girl on Jan. 17 at the Giulesti Maternity Hospital in Bucharest. She is now the oldest woman in the world ever to give birth. Her doctor, when asked why he would use reproductive technology to permit a 66-year-old woman to become pregnant, said he helped her because that is what she wanted to do, and because he was impressed with her faith in God and with her “determination."

Giving birth may be what Iliescu wanted to do, and she may well be a very determined person of great piety, but the doctor did something highly unethical when he helped her become pregnant: Iliescu is too old to be having a baby.

Iliescu needed a doctor’s assistance because she is no longer able to produce healthy eggs of her own. Since she is single, donor eggs and sperm were used to make embryos. One of these embryos became her daughter, Eliza Maria. But, while Iliescu did indeed give birth to a baby, all the doctor did was allow her to become pregnant, not to have her own genetic child.

A morally unacceptable price
Why was this act so wrong? It was wrong because there was a terrible price to pay for using reproductive technology to make a 66-year-old woman pregnant.

Any woman over the age of 40 constitutes a high-risk pregnancy — the medical risks rise rapidly for mothers older than 40 and for their babies. These risks became terribly real in the case of Iliescu’s pregnancy. The child she delivered was born premature — a low birth-weight baby. This poses serious health problems for the baby, concerns that are made even more troubling by the fact that Romanian neonatal units are not up to the same standards as those in other, wealthier nations. In addition, Iliescu had to undergo an emergency C-section, not easy for a 66-year-old who must then go on to handle parenting duties by herself with a baby who may well have significant medical problems in the future.

Not as widely reported in all the hullabaloo about the "world’s oldest mom" is that Iliescu lost one fetus early on in her pregnancy and also gave birth to a stillborn baby in addition to Eliza Maria. Iliescu’s pregnancy came with two deaths, plus one premature baby whose fate remains unknown, and one life-threatening emergency C-section — altogether a morally unacceptable price.

But that is not the end of the challenges a pregnancy in a 66-year-old woman brings. Consider that when her daughter enters high school, Iliescu will be 80. Eighty! That should be the end of the argument. If you are 66 and single — man or woman — you should not be having a baby.

Age limits needed
My proposal is that anyone over 65 who is single should not be allowed to use reproductive technology to have a child. If you have a partner, then your total ages should not be more than 130. And if you are a female at or near 55 years of age and hoping to become pregnant, then you should only be allowed to use reproductive technology if you can pass a rigorous physical examination. At age 66, forget it.

So, who will enforce this age limit? Should we enact a law or can we leave it up to doctors at individual infertility clinics?

As it happens, I co-authored a recent survey of American reproductive technology programs led by Andrea Gurmankin of Harvard Medical School, which was published last week in the journal Fertility and Sterility. The survey asked a number of hypothetical questions of clinic directors to try and figure out which values doctors use to decide who can and cannot use reproductive technology to become a parent in the United States.

One question we asked was whether clinics would turn away couples in which both parents were 43 years old. Most would not turn them away, but a surprising 18 percent of clinic directors said they would. Twenty percent said they would not help a woman who was single become pregnant, while 53 percent said they would not deal with single men.

Age was not the only disqualifier. Three percent of programs said they would not accept a couple who were both blind from an accident. Seventeen percent would turn away women who state they are lesbians, while 38 percent said they would not help a couple who were on welfare and using social security checks to pay for infertility treatment.

Government should step in
Clearly there is quite a lot of screening already going on at fertility clinics. Some programs don’t care much about age or whether a patient is single or not, but others do.

If there is an age at which it makes sense to declare someone too old to use reproductive technology — and I strongly believe there is — then who should enforce this age limit? If you leave enforcement up to individual clinics they may decide to implement the rule, but given that their current screening practices are all over the map, this seems unlikely.

In light of the high risks at stake, the medical profession or state legislators should act. The race to create the world’s oldest mom should be declared over.

Arthur Caplan is director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania.

© 2005 MSNBC Interactive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6862098/

applehead
01-25-2005, 06:40 PM
i think it's a bit irresponsible for
older couples to go through the heartache
and risk their health to have a children
of their own mainly because i don't really
think it's fair for the children themselves.

obviously they're pretty well off to
receive such treatments and their children
will be well taken care of, in terms of finances,
if they were to pass away before the
child can fend for themselves but
i wonder as to the child's emotional well being
having parents that old.

there's been a lot of articles about older
women giving birth these days.
i wonder what they would have to say
about their childhood growing up
with elderly parents.

i don't think there should be
laws and such governing it though.

Faithless
01-25-2005, 08:03 PM
I think your poll should have been separated by 5's, rather than the 10's.

40-45 - is pushing it.
46-50 - really, forget about it.
50+ Are you farting crazy, gramps?

applehead
01-26-2005, 07:09 AM
i think if you're under 60. it's fine.
because the oldest they can be
is 78 when their child turns 18.
but if you're over 60... like the 66
year old woman mentioned in the
first post. it's a bit disturbing.

asvenus
01-26-2005, 01:27 PM
im reluctant to suggest implementing laws curbing our personal decisions is ever a good thing although if like said 66 yr old lady you are not conceiving naturally then i think its pretty ridiculous..i mean i could kinda understand if it was natural conception but it wasnt...
im pretty hardcore when it comes to issues such as these though
1) i dont actually condone/approve of IVF and similar treatments...yes yes i know some people just want a child etc etc..that brings me to point...

2)i believe that the need to have a child is essentially a false one as there are millions of children that need homes/care but in this age of consumer capitalism, we reject that in favour of ownership rather than supporting a child/ren if we cannot have them...

i really find it disgusting, the whole IVF thing upsets me..there is no argument that can really convince me it is necessary..and also the fact that your body cannot conceive naturally nor give birth naturally is telling you..DO NOT have a child..some people..grrr
im not being a fascist or anything, sorry if i upset anyone with my views i know theyre pretty hard but its how i feel, maybe cos im not really maternal i dont understand although i dont think i ever would/will :confused:

Commando_turned_MD
01-29-2005, 09:43 AM
I think 60 is the max.
That way you can attend your child's HS graduation. College graduation may not be possible.

missmeow
01-29-2005, 12:33 PM
I think as long as you haven't gone through menopause, you're cool. Personally, I think it is irresponsible to have a child over if you're over the age of 50. That's way too much of a generational gap. However, there are the few exceptions who would do right by their kids. Also, people are living into their 80s easily, so ?

kimpossible
05-17-2005, 04:40 PM
I don't care as long as they pay for the babies produced. No public assitance.

thaite
05-17-2005, 06:02 PM
Any old ladies out there need some help? I work cheap.

nola
05-17-2005, 08:36 PM
I don't care as long as they pay for the babies produced. No public assitance.good answer!!!!! and that goes for the too young to have babies side too. especially. so thaite, make sure your madame or you have the cash first. :wink:

thaite
05-18-2005, 12:09 AM
Hey, I'm just there for the conception.

moJo
05-19-2005, 12:26 PM
imo, over 45. personal experience. my mom had me when she was 40-41. she just retired and my dad is long-overdue to retire, and i'm 26 trying to figure out what i'm gonna do with my life and still wanting to explore (careers, travel) but also feeling the pressure to settle down with a stable job/career because i might need to help support my parents in the future. also my mom is a great grandmother to my nephew, and i want her to be influential in my own future children's lives but that means i'd have to start poppin the babies out soon.

Hiroshi2
05-20-2005, 05:02 PM
My aunt had her first (and only child) when she was 47, I thought that was kind of old.

kimpossible
05-20-2005, 05:56 PM
hiroshi, was it just from hanky panky or she was doing all the fertlity clinic stuff?

mrazntre
05-21-2005, 02:04 AM
imo, over 45. personal experience. my mom had me when she was 40-41. she just retired and my dad is long-overdue to retire, and i'm 26 trying to figure out what i'm gonna do with my life and still wanting to explore (careers, travel) but also feeling the pressure to settle down with a stable job/career because i might need to help support my parents in the future. also my mom is a great grandmother to my nephew, and i want her to be influential in my own future children's lives but that means i'd have to start poppin the babies out soon.

I hope E doesn't see that

I agree that there should be in place some sort of ban for using fertility/birthing/anything baby technology for someone over the age of 50 or something like that. I'm not saying that they can't fuck and get pregnant, I'm just saying that we should take a serious look at all of the unforeseen consequences of child birth and child rearing at such an advanced age. I think that would be the only proper thing to do as a society. Is it not true that across the board women who are pregnant for the first time at age 38 are more susceptible to having a child with genetic defects such as down syndrome? If that's the case, it's up to the individuals, however, they're gonna have to do it the natural way.

Say no to articial insemination! SNTAI!!!!!!

Hiroshi2
05-21-2005, 11:46 AM
hiroshi, was it just from hanky panky or she was doing all the fertlity clinic stuff?




As far as I know of, it was all-natural.

achtungbaby
05-21-2005, 03:51 PM
...but that means i'd have to start poppin the babies out soon.
And...? You have a problem with that?

deez nuts
05-24-2005, 09:23 AM
besides the fact that the quality of a woman's eggs decreases as she ages.

if a woman has her first child by age 30, it reduces the risk of getting breast cancer by as much as 50% in her lifetime. it also reduces the chances of ovarian cancer.

getting pregnant after 30 increases your risk of breast cancer during the pregancy and later on in life. consequently, incidences of breast cancer during pregnancy cases have been on the rise with the average patient age being around 35-38.

moJo
05-24-2005, 09:40 AM
And...? You have a problem with that?
well, i might forget to feed it or something. me not so responsible.

Tao
05-24-2005, 12:20 PM
well, i might forget to feed it or something. me not so responsible.
......that's sorta scary :tongue:

achtungbaby
05-24-2005, 03:04 PM
well, i might forget to feed it or something. me not so responsible.
Skipping one or two meals ain't no big thang. Fasting once in a while is good for you.

ahsingjai
05-25-2005, 03:33 AM
I think 40 should be the limit. I mean, socially and culturally and financially, you don't want to be 60 and still trying to save for your kid's college funds. Then end up being at retirement age still working.

And sometimes nearing 50 and 60, you might run in to health problems as well and it will be difficult for the kid growing up if you die early.

If these aren't problems you worry about, then go ahead, have kids. I have nothing against anyone having kids as long as they have a plan for their kids to grow up on. If a 55 year old feels that he/she wants a child, is it selfishness? Does this person feel he/she gonna live forever? Some people are lucky to live long, and that's great, but to raise a kid takes a lot of time/stress that sometimes older people will dislike.

nonamerasian
05-25-2005, 12:52 PM
I guess it's according to the heath and stability of the individuals.

But I would like for older women to consider seriously adoption before fertility treatments.

The heath risks of babies born to older mommies aren't good.

Faithless
05-25-2005, 01:36 PM
At a minimum, you want to be able to keep up with your kids, too, activity and culture-wise.

I look at my 8-yo daughter, and I think we should be able to run together, if and when she's ready. (She shows signs of wanting to jog with me.)

If I stay active, I maybe able to do this with my son. I wanna play one-on-one hoops with him, if and when he starts to show skills. (Then I stuff the bitch till he cries each and everytime he drives into my houz!) ... So, when he's 8.

Don't want to hear, "Pops, go put on your knee caps and let's play." :frown:

applehead
05-25-2005, 06:43 PM
besides the fact that the quality of a woman's eggs decreases as she ages.

if a woman has her first child by age 30, it reduces the risk of getting breast cancer by as much as 50% in her lifetime. it also reduces the chances of ovarian cancer.

getting pregnant after 30 increases your risk of breast cancer during the pregancy and later on in life. consequently, incidences of breast cancer during pregnancy cases have been on the rise with the average patient age being around 35-38.

so me having a baby after 30 means
that i raise my chances of having cancer?
what if i don't have a baby?

nola
05-25-2005, 06:59 PM
The optimum age biologically for baby and self is 27.

asvenus
06-08-2005, 05:07 AM
i read an article recently that suggests not only do womens egg 'quality' decrease after 30, but that mens sperm also decrease in potency/quality.
it was relating to the high number of women that were having miscarriages while in their 30s, they studied the males and found that the older the male the more likely the egg he fertilised would result in miscarriage...quite scary really...
mojo you better get poppin' teehee...
is that true nola...27? well i still got me some years to 'practise' then!!

deez nuts
06-08-2005, 07:35 AM
i read an article recently that suggests not only do womens egg 'quality' decrease after 30, but that mens sperm also decrease in potency/quality.
it was relating to the high number of women that were having miscarriages while in their 30s, they studied the males and found that the older the male the more likely the egg he fertilised would result in miscarriage...quite scary really...
mojo you better get poppin' teehee...
is that true nola...27? well i still got me some years to 'practise' then!!

my sperm is all belly up and floating by now.

if some are still swimming around, they're probably bumping into one another.

the few that do make their way to the egg, they can't penetrate a thin layer of oil let alone the walls of the egg.

mrazntre
06-08-2005, 09:25 AM
i read an article recently that suggests not only do womens egg 'quality' decrease after 30, but that mens sperm also decrease in potency/quality.
it was relating to the high number of women that were having miscarriages while in their 30s, they studied the males and found that the older the male the more likely the egg he fertilised would result in miscarriage...quite scary really...
mojo you better get poppin' teehee...
is that true nola...27? well i still got me some years to 'practise' then!!

me too.

when and where?