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hooligan
01-19-2005, 08:31 PM
This is from a reader that my friend let me borrow from a Women of Color class at De Anza. Thank you!

I put this in sex and health because I'd like comments on your thoughts about gender roles from both men and women.



A white minority of the world has spent centuries conning us into thinking that a white skin makes people superior - even though the only thing that it really does is make them more subject to ultraviolet rays and to wrinkles. Male human beings have built whole cultures around the idea that penis-envy is "natural" to women - though having such an unprotected organ might be said to make men vulnerable, and to power to give birth makes womb-envy at least as logical.

In short, the characteristics of the powerful, whatever they may be, are thought to be better than the characteristics of the powerless - and logic has nothing to do with it.

What would happen, for instances, if suddently, magically, men could menstruate and women could not?

The answer is clear-menstruation would become an enviable, boast-worthy, masculine event:

Men would brag about how long and how much.

Boys would mark the onset of menses, that longed-for proof of manhood, with religious ritual and stag parties.

Congress would fund a National Institute of Dysmenorrhea to help stamp out monthly discomforts.

Sanitary supplies would be federally funded and free. (Of course, some men would still pay for the prestige of commercial brands such as John Wayne Tampons, Muhammad Ali's Rope-a-dope Pads, Joe Namath Jock Shields - "For Those Light Bachelor Days," and Robert "Baretta" Blake Maxi-pads.)

Military men, right-wing politicians, and religious fundamentalists would cite menstruation ("men-struatrion") as proof that only men could serve in the Army ("You have to give blood to take blood") , occupy political office ("can women be aggressive without that steadfast cycle governed by the planet Mars?"), be priests and ministers ("how could a woman give her blood for our sins?"), or rabbis ("without the monthly loss of impurities, women remain unclean").

Male radicals, left-wing politicians, and mystics, however, would insist that women are equal, just different; and that any woman oculd enter their ranks if only she were willing to self-inflict a major wound every month (" you must give blood for the revolution"), recognize the preeminence of menstrual issues, or subordinate her selfness to all men in the Cycle of Enlightenment.

Street guys would brag ("I'm a three-pad man") or answer praise from a buddy ("Man, you lookin' good!") by giving fives and saying, "Yeah, man, I'm on the rag!"

TV shows would treat the subject at length. ("Happy Days": Richie and Potsie try to convince Fonzie that he is still "The Fonz," though he has missed two periods in a row.) So would newspapers. (SHARK SCARE THREATENS MENSTRUATING MEN. JUDGE CITES MONTHLY STRESS IN PARDONING RAPIST.) And movies (Newman and Redford in "Blood Brothers"!)

Men would convince women that intercourse was more pleasurable at "that time of the month." Lesbians would be said to fear blood and therefore life itself - though probably only because they needed a good menstruating man.

Of course, males intellectuals would offer the most moral and logical arguments. How could a women master any discipline that demanded a sense of time, space, mathematics, or measurement, for instance, without that in-built gift for measuring the cycles of the moon and planets - and thus for measuring anything at all? In the rarefied fields of philosophy and religion, could women compensate for missing the rhythm of the universe? Or for their lack of symbolic death-and-resurrection every month?

Liberal males in every field would try to be kind: the fact that "these people" have no gift of measuring life or connecting to the universe, the liberals would explain, should be punishment enough.

And how would women be trained to react? One can imagine traditional women agreeing to all these arguments with the staunch and smiling masochism ("The ERA would force housewives to would themselves every month": Phyills Schalfy. "Your husband's blood is as sacred as that of Jesus - and so sexy, too!": Marabel Morgan.) Reformers and Queen Bees would try to imitate men, and pretend to have a monthly cycle. All feminists would explain endlessly that men, too, needed to be liberated from the false idea of Martian aggressiveness, just as women needed to escape the bonds of menses-envy. Radical feminists would add that the oppression of the nonmenstrual was the pattern for all other oppressions. ("Vampires were our first freedom fighters!") Cultural feminists would insist that only under capitalism would men be able to monopolize menstrual blood...

In fact, if men could menstruate, the power justifications could probably go on forever.

If we let them.


All types and grammatical errors are that of the typist (me).

TB4000
01-19-2005, 09:27 PM
Oh Gloria, you and your man hating ways. If we did menstruate, rest assured that everytime we went on our period, a bomb would go off somewhere in the world.

mr. x
01-20-2005, 01:21 AM
Oh Gloria, you and your man hating ways. If we did menstruate, rest assured that everytime we went on our period, a bomb would go off somewhere in the world.
that whole thing about women menstruating at the same time is true huh? whats it called again

and it is abso fucking lutely nuts! i mean think about it, at the same effing time!

deez nuts
01-20-2005, 07:03 AM
what would gloria steinen know about being on the rag? she has a penis.

applehead
01-20-2005, 07:23 AM
it's steinman.

hooligan
01-20-2005, 07:31 AM
: \ OK everyone go ahead and hate away, at least I was amused.

hooligan
01-20-2005, 09:04 AM
it's steinman.

ah yeah, you're right, i'm sorry. my typing skills have gone the way of the buffalo.

nola
01-20-2005, 09:51 AM
It's a clever, effective, famous piece by Gloria Steinem. She's married by the way, to a MAN.

hooligan
01-20-2005, 09:56 AM
what would gloria steinen know about being on the rag? she has a penis.

And you sound very, very threatened.

It's a clever, effective, famous piece by Gloria Steinem. She's married by the way, to a MAN.

Christian Bale's dad, btw.

deez nuts
01-20-2005, 10:01 AM
It's a clever, effective, famous piece by Gloria Steinem. She's married by the way, to a MAN.

so what is the old battleaxe's last name? steinem or steinman? i thought it was steinman cuz i don't know too many jews with the last name steinem - i'm a big fan of the jews. but, i can't say i'm an expert on her.

And you sound very, very threatened.


no. i love jewish chicks.

nola
01-20-2005, 11:13 AM
Oh yeah, her husband or should I say wife! is a real feminist. I've always been suspicious of male feminists though. They're unusual and I wonder what their motives are. They are usually after babes like SteinMAN.

ism
01-20-2005, 11:28 AM
Oh yeah, her husband or should I say wife! is a real feminist. I've always been suspicious of male feminists though. They're unusual and I wonder what their motives are. They are usually after babes like SteinMAN.Haha. Well, if you really want to look at it that way, isn't it a bit of a role-reversal, and if you want to take it farther, along the same lines of femdom? But maybe they just believe in egalitarianism.

Steinem relatively moderate these days, and I took the article as more humorous than anything. I just wonder where she thinks the blood would be coming from.

nola
01-20-2005, 11:33 AM
I think she wrote it in the 70s in a humorous vein. It's her most famous piece besides her ass of course. Margaret Cho said something similar about men menstruating on one of her CDs. Male feminists I've met (they're were white) are usually more competitive and after the babes.

deez nuts
01-20-2005, 11:40 AM
Male feminists I've met (they're were white) are usually more competitive and after the babes.

that is true i used the guise of being a sensitive male feminist to chase this one girl when i was in college.

god, she was one hard deer to put down.

nola
01-20-2005, 11:44 AM
Those are hard babes to get because alot of us, i mean them, haha, hate men.

asvenus
01-20-2005, 12:36 PM
Those are hard babes to get because alot of us, i mean them, haha, hate men.

LOL :wink:

call me crazy but i think men experiencing periods/pregnancy is one shot too far..we all know that womens experiences are constantly debased and devalued because men dont experience them, we need to focus on correcting the sexual hierarchy not pretending that men and women are or should be the same in all respects....equality does not mean 'the same' to me and it shouldnt have to....although men having periods please, the bastids would probably faint..the bastids :tongue:

Meki
01-20-2005, 12:40 PM
Those are hard babes to get because alot of us, i mean them, haha, hate men.

Amen to that sista! Would give you tons of K-points if I could. :wink:

But seriously, I wouldn't consider myself a radical (militant on occasion. :biggrin: ) but seeing as I live in an area that the infamous quote from "Full Metal Jacket" is prevalent, I do not just take offense to the racial implications but also the sexiest ones. So I wouldn't mind if these pricks could live a day in a life as a women.

deez nuts
01-20-2005, 02:10 PM
Those are hard babes to get because alot of us, i mean them, haha, hate men.

by the time they let the men in, the men are so broken that you got yourself one pussy whipped guy.

asvenus
01-20-2005, 02:16 PM
by the time they let the men in, the men are so broken that you got yourself one pussy whipped guy.

speaking from experience ey?? :tongue:

deez nuts
01-20-2005, 02:20 PM
speaking from experience ey?? :tongue:


of course. it happens to the best of us.

i think most guys have been pussy whipped at least once in their dating life.

nola
01-20-2005, 03:22 PM
by the time they let the men in, the men are so broken that you got yourself one pussy whipped guy.Unless they move to fresh meat who know nothing about these kinds of women. They may give him a break just for the heck of it.

Napoleon Chynamite
01-20-2005, 05:54 PM
of course. it happens to the best of us.

i think most guys have been pussy whipped at least once in their dating life.

For me it's a chronic illness.

hooligan
01-20-2005, 05:59 PM
I think she wrote it in the 70s in a humorous vein. It's her most famous piece besides her ass of course. Margaret Cho said something similar about men menstruating on one of her CDs. Male feminists I've met (they're were white) are usually more competitive and after the babes.

I wouldn't call them feminists if that were the case. It's a lot like people who aren't APIA calling themselves APIA activists. Although I do recognize the need for allies that aren't of our color (yellow and brown).

nola
01-20-2005, 11:08 PM
Meki, do you live in the Panhandle aka THE DEEP SOUTH?

Meki
01-20-2005, 11:36 PM
Meki, do you live in the Panhandle aka THE DEEP SOUTH?

No but it's pretty much the same thing. If anyone's planning to come here for the super bowl, don't expect a really friendly welcome. (At least if you're a minority.) I swear there are a lot of people that drive around here with the rebel flag hanging on their car or 'pickup trucks'. The city itself isn't all that bad because it has so much potential for growth but I just wish people were a little more educated when it comes to different cultures. I hear the phrase 'You talk real good' so many times I could swear I was from a different planet. I also think that it's because Filipinos are the majority here and the rest of the Asian population here are mainly fob's so if you‘re not Filipino then you must be straight from the motherland. :rolleyes: On top of that it’s very segregated here. Most of the Asian population lives in a certain part of the city and since this is the largest city in the U.S (Land mass) it’s pretty wide spread.

jz87
01-20-2005, 11:40 PM
It' s not illogical for the traits of the powerful to be admired and the traits of the powerless to be derided. When people observe correlation between certain traits and positive qualities, people tend to associate those traits positively. Those traits become proxies for judging positive qualities in the absence of direct verification of those qualities. There's nothing illogical about this, even computers will do this.

nola
01-20-2005, 11:44 PM
Hey, that sucks but...

I hope you can find things you enjoy there.

It' s not illogical for the traits of the powerful to be admired and the traits of the powerless to be derided. When people observe correlation between certain traits and positive qualities, people tend to associate those traits positively. Those traits become proxies for judging positive qualities in the absence of direct verification of those qualities. There's nothing illogical about this, even computers will do this.What traits are admirable about the privileged and powerful? Nothing except privilege and power. There is a cachet that goes along with so called traits power but really we just admire power.

Meki
01-21-2005, 12:19 AM
It' s not illogical for the traits of the powerful to be admired and the traits of the powerless to be derided. When people observe correlation between certain traits and positive qualities, people tend to associate those traits positively. Those traits become proxies for judging positive qualities in the absence of direct verification of those qualities. There's nothing illogical about this, even computers will do this.

I believe you were speaking to me but I can't be sure so if you weren't ignore this.

Well I do not really blame the people for being ignorant but mainly the system. FL is one of the lowest ranking states when it comes to education in general. There is no diversity education what so ever here in Jacksonville. Unless you attend one of the private schools here you really are at a major disadvantage. Jacksonville is the lowest ranking city in education in the state of FL. The city officials want to put more focus on the basic education and see anything else as frivolous. And come on people are not computers. They have a TV; they see Asians on there that speak with out an accent.

I also believe that people have a responsibility to gain knowledge on their own and not just blame it purely on the school system. If you want to learn there's nothing stopping you from doing so and schools make it a lot easier to do so but you don't need one to learn. Unlike a computer people don't require someone to program the information in.

Tao
01-21-2005, 12:28 AM
i've been to jacksonville. i have relativves there...it's not that bad from what i can tell. like, when i walk down the street or buy something no one would think of giving me a hard time. but from what my aunt says, there's still a lot of tension between whites and blacks. they mainly stick to their own kind. but then again, most of the south is like that anyways....except i hated most of the southern states on the drive from nyc to florida to visit them. man those local people can be really scary sometimes.

Meki
01-21-2005, 12:37 AM
i've been to jacksonville. i have relativves there...it's not that bad from what i can tell. like, when i walk down the street or buy something no one would think of giving me a hard time. but from what my aunt says, there's still a lot of tension between whites and blacks. they mainly stick to their own kind. but then again, most of the south is like that anyways....except i hated most of the southern states on the drive from nyc to florida to visit them. man those local people can be really scary sometimes.

Try living here... :tongue: And what part of the city do they live in? If they live in Orange Park or the Westside it doesn't count b/c that is where most of the Asians live. I do not live in either.

nola
01-21-2005, 12:55 AM
Jacksonville is very Republican and white.

deez nuts
01-21-2005, 06:30 AM
what about panama city, florida? woo woo.

mrazntre
01-21-2005, 07:50 AM
LOL :wink:

call me crazy but i think men experiencing periods/pregnancy is one shot too far..we all know that womens experiences are constantly debased and devalued because men dont experience them, we need to focus on correcting the sexual hierarchy not pretending that men and women are or should be the same in all respects....equality does not mean 'the same' to me and it shouldnt have to....although men having periods please, the bastids would probably faint..the bastids :tongue:

i doubt we would faint from that.

Hypothetically speaking, I would like to experience menstruation because then I could actually get a firsthand look into why women are emotionally unstable, crazy, psychotic at times, and fucked up in the head in general.

applehead
01-21-2005, 09:29 AM
It's a clever, effective, famous piece by Gloria Steinem. She's married by the way, to a MAN.

she's married to christian bale's father.
*hot hot*