Survey: Area Asians have head start

[achtungbaby]

By Mike Snyder
Asian-Americans, as members of Harris County's fastest-growing ethnic community, are enjoying economic success largely because most arrived in this country as well-educated adults, the 2002 Houston Area Survey shows.

The findings raise questions about the stereotype of Asian-Americans as a "model minority" who succeed solely because of hard work, high intelligence and strong family values, said Stephen Klineberg, the Rice University sociology professor who directs the survey.

full story (http://yellowworld.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=136&mode=nocomments&order=1&thold=-1)

[Craig]

Immigration really isn't a random phenomenon in this day and age. When outsiders arrive over here they typically fill a void either by doing the work that the locals can't do (as was referenced in this article) or doing the work the locals won't do (the other end of the spectrum). I think it should be expected that the achievement levels of the Asian immigrants is typically much higher. However, that being said, I still don't think the different cultural values should be discounted as a significant factor either.

[SunWuKong]

good article. especially since it highlights the big difference between refugee immigrants and opportunity-seeking immigrants.

[ChinaLama]

Although these percentages of educated ppl are higher than i knew, it's not a big surprise to me. Actually it almost seems like common sense, that a lot of us arrived as educated or the kids of educated people. then again maybe i'm biased since i spent my first few years in america surrounded by foreign students like my dad and his friends at the University of Missouri, Columbia campus.

[Craig]

Here's a related article on the Tolerance.org website.

http://tolerance.org/news/article_tol.jsp?id=622

[deez nuts]

Good article.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 3 2002, 07:11 AM
Here's a related article on the Tolerance.org website.

       http://tolerance.org/news/article_tol.jsp?id=622
yes, really good article



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Oct 3 2002, 11:15 AM-->

[Reinhard H.]

Actually the (white male) author uses skewed statistics himself. First off, Asian Americans as a group have a much younger average age than whites, since many of them are recent immigrants. Younger people tend to earn less, so you have to compare people that belong to similar age group. Secondly it typically takes 2-3 generations for immigrants to fully adapt to their new country, therefore you have to compare Asian Americans who have lived in the US for 2-3 generations with whites. The Asian American group that most fits the above description are the Japanese Americans, who have mostly lived in the US for several generations and have a similar average age as whites and their average incomes are 30 percent higher than those of whites. He also lumps North East Asians and South East Asians together, the "model minority" stereotype isn't used to characterize Filipinos or Hmong, but Chinese, Japanese and Koreans, who have all done well. Finally, all this doesn't change anything about continued black failure in the US, so in my opinion just another self-loathing white liberal who blames the worlds woes on white "racism". Actually most of the other stuff he writes is also at least questionable in my opinion, but I don't want to get into that now.

[Reinhard H.]

BTW, I'm referring to the tolerance.org article.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

I tend to be suspicious of articles like this as well which claim Asian success is only due to lots of immigrants with overseas college degrees and blames poverty on racism. maybe just cuz I come from an Asian country with legalized, institutionalized anti-minority racism and numerical quotas, a constitution which explicitly defines the difference between the ethnic "Malay" and the nationality "Malaysian," where 3/4 of the Chinese population are descended from illiterate tin miners, dock workers, and plantation coolies, yet we still have a higher income than the national average.



<!--EDIT|AliBabaIncorporated|Oct 3 2002, 07:01 PM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 3 2002, 01:42 PM

Actually the (white male) author uses skewed statistics himself. First off, Asian Americans as a group have a much younger average age than whites, since many of them are recent immigrants. Younger people tend to earn less, so you have to compare people that belong to similar age group.

Ok, this seems to make sense. Percentage wise there are probably more white people that are older and retired than there are Asian people who are older and retired.

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 3 2002, 01:42 PM

Secondly it typically takes 2-3 generations for immigrants to fully adapt to their new country, therefore you have to compare Asian Americans who have lived in the US for 2-3 generations with whites. The Asian American group that most fits the above description are the Japanese Americans, who have mostly lived in the US for several generations and have a similar average age as whites and their average incomes are 30 percent higher than those of whites.

But the model minority myth proponents do not point only to Asian Americans who have been here for 2 to 3 generations. They are pointing to all Asian Americans, whether they be recent immigrants or not - which is an unfair comparison for African Americans. And I would love to see that study that differentiates Japanese Americans by generation and then surveyed their income levels, because I've read elsewhere that success levels for Asian Americans taper off to around the same level of the white average at about the 3rd or 4th generation.

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 3 2002, 01:42 PM

He also lumps North East Asians and South East Asians together, the "model minority" stereotype isn't used to characterize Filipinos or Hmong, but Chinese, Japanese and Koreans, who have all done well.

No, actually it's quite the reverse. It is the model minority proponents that made the mistake of lumping East Asian (and South Asian) opportunity seeking immigrants with Southeast Asian refugee immigrants. The author of the article is pointing out that error and saying that there are indeed plenty of Asian people who are doing badly, and as badly as blacks and Hispanics.

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 3 2002, 01:42 PM

Finally, all this doesn't change anything about continued black failure in the US, so in my opinion just another self-loathing white liberal who blames the worlds woes on white "racism". Actually most of the other stuff he writes is also at least questionable in my opinion, but I don't want to get into that now.

I would love to hear more about what you find questionable. This doesn't change anything about continued black failure in the US, but it does shed light on the fact that the model minority myth was created to use Asian Americans as scapegoats.



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Oct 3 2002, 02:06 PM-->

[SunWuKong]

ok just let me point out that i don't think racism and/or discrimination is entirely to blame for black failure in America. i only think that it is at least partially to blame.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 07:10 PM
ok just let me point out that i don't think racism and/or discrimination is entirely to blame for black failure in America. i only think that it is at least partially to blame.
blcakc failure is due to bad exampl;es as childhood influences and inherited stupidity.

Only those that had ambition, initiative and for some a little luck succeeded. i wouldn't wanna be around so many craked out ppl who'll rob you. it's pretty bad around here in surrey but it must be terribly worse in the u.s.

there are very few blacks around here. mostly east indain and asians. caucasions of course.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@Oct 3 2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 07:10 PM
ok just let me point out that i don't think racism and/or discrimination is entirely to blame for black failure in America. &nbsp;i only think that it is at least partially to blame.
blcakc failure is due to bad exampl;es as childhood influences and inherited stupidity.

Only those that had ambition, initiative and for some a little luck succeeded. i wouldn't wanna be around so many craked out ppl who'll rob you. it's pretty bad around here in surrey but it must be terribly worse in the u.s.

there are very few blacks around here. mostly east indain and asians. caucasions of course.
are you saying that discrimination/racism against black people do not exist?

[Craig]

I know an associate of mine, former classmate, who happens to be of black ancestry. He had a couple of years experience and graduated from one of the top 15 schools with a Bachelors Degree in Electrical Engineering. He lost his job in 1999. He went through 2000 without getting another job. He went out of the country to visit relatives during the holidays because that time of year is bad to get a professional job. He is a United States citizen not requiring sponsorship. Then the tech downturn started to hit at that time and I haven't heard from him since. Not exactly my idea of an unambitious stupid person. Definitely not typical from my impression of blacks, but nonetheless a good reasonably intelligent guy (who happens to be black) trying to make a better life for himself.

Btw, this guy did not get into that university because of affirmative action, he was an extremely hard worker who was taking classes at the local community college (to save money) for a couple of years and transferred with a 4.0 including classes like Engineering Physics, Calculus, Differential Equations, Computer Science, etc. He had a 3.7 average at the university.



<!--EDIT|Craig|Oct 4 2002, 08:15 PM-->

[kasia]

just to put "black failure" into perspective:

approx. 50% of Vietnamese-Americans are in prison
approx. 30% of Blacks are in prison

although there is a disproportionate amount of both groups in our prisons, there is a higher rate of Vietnamese-Americans than Blacks. however, this fact is hardly ever recognized because Vietnamese often get lumped into a group with other Asians in prison/race studies.

[Craig]

I am assuming you mean males in your stats. Do you have any URLs we can look at for additional related information ?

Also, I think there are other issues at play because of the demographic of Southeast Asians in this country and how they acquired access/citizenship. I don't want to say too much lest I be denounced a SE Asian basher.

[kasia]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 10:26 AM
I am assuming you mean males in your stats. Do you have any URLs we can look at for additional related information ?

Also, I think there are other issues at play because of the demographic of Southeast Asians in this country and how they acquired access/citizenship. I don't want to say too much lest I be denounced a SE Asian basher.
i actually don't have a url for the information. i just came back from a gang documentary viewing and the statistics were given to me there. i would say my source is fairly reliable.

i'm not quite sure i know what you mean by 'the other issues at play'. since, we're just debating here, it's okay to be throwing out unpopular opinions/theories. i'm sure nobody will accuse you of SE Asian bashing unless that it what you are intentionally doing. if something disagrees with your theory, they can simply voice their disagreement.

[Craig]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 10:26 AM
I am assuming you mean males in your stats. &nbsp;Do you have any URLs we can look at for additional related information ? &nbsp;

Also, I think there are other issues at play because of the demographic of Southeast Asians in this country and how they acquired access/citizenship. &nbsp;I don't want to say too much lest I be denounced a SE Asian basher.
i actually don't have a url for the information. i just came back from a gang documentary viewing and the statistics were given to me there. i would say my source is fairly reliable.

i'm not quite sure i know what you mean by 'the other issues at play'. since, we're just debating here, it's okay to be throwing out unpopular opinions/theories. i'm sure nobody will accuse you of SE Asian bashing unless that it what you are intentionally doing. if something disagrees with your theory, they can simply voice their disagreement.

Well in reference to what has already been mentioned a disproportionate percentage of the East and South Asian populations that have recently moved here as descendents of highly educated professionals like engineers, scientists and lawyers. I don't really find that to be the general case among the Southeast Asians here. Many in certain groups (mainland SE Asia) are descendants of refugees and people who went against their governments to help the USA. Also I think there is quite a bit of corruption in Amerasian repatriation, when Amerasians could almost freely come to the US and bring there families along. However, from what I read about Vietnam, officiallys would blatantly deny real Amerasians and then later set them up with fake families (who would later abandon them) before they could get the paperwork. As for some of the other groups (Thais and Philipinos) many of the people are descended or related to workers of the world's oldest profession.

[kasia]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 10:49 AM
Well in reference to what has already been mentioned a disproportionate percentage of the East and South Asian populations that have recently moved here as descendents of highly educated professionals like engineers, scientists and lawyers. I don't really find that to be the general case among the Southeast Asians here. Many in certain groups (mainland SE Asia) are descendants of refugees and people who went against their governments to help the USA. Also I think there is quite a bit of corruption in Amerasian repatriation, when Amerasians could almost freely come to the US and bring there families along. However, from what I read about Vietnam, officiallys would blatantly deny real Amerasians and then later set them up with fake families (who would later abandon them) before they could get the paperwork. As for some of the other groups (Thais and Philipinos) many of the people are descended or related to workers of the world's oldest profession.
wow, i didn't know very much about amerasian repatriation...heard a bit about it, about how the amerasians would get ditched in the u.s. without a place to stay, etc. in oakland, some sympathetic restaurant owners have taken in these amerasians.

to add to your list...i also heard for the first time today that the war can also be a contributing factor. some vietnamese parents, for example, suffered from ptsd after the war and subsequently, whether genetically or by the way they raised their children, passed it on to them.
vietnamese gangs are known, in the streets and prisons, to be the most ruthless.

****

sorry, i'm jumping all over the place, but here's another thought. perhaps a lot of it has to do with cultural values as well. for example, perhaps a poor chinese immigrant family may still be able to flourish while a poor vietnamese immigrant family may not because their cultures view 'work ethic' differently.

[Craig]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Oct 5 2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 4 2002, 01:49 PM
I know an associate of mine, former classmate, who happens to be of black ancestry. &nbsp;He had a couple of years experience and graduated from one of the top 15 schools with a Bachelors Degree in Electrical Engineering. &nbsp;He lost his job in 1999. &nbsp;He went through 2000 without getting another job. &nbsp;He went out of the country to visit relatives during the holidays because that time of year is bad to get a professional job. &nbsp;He is a United States citizen not requiring sponsorship. &nbsp;Then the tech downturn started to hit at that time and I haven't heard from him since. &nbsp;Not exactly my idea of an unambitious stupid person. &nbsp; Definitely not typical from my impression of blacks, but nonetheless a good reasonably intelligent guy (who happens to be black) trying to make a better life for himself.

Btw, this guy did not get into that university because of affirmative action, he was an extremely hard worker who was taking classes at the local community college (to save money) for a couple of years and transferred with a 4.0 including classes like Engineering Physics, Calculus, Differential Equations, Computer Science, etc. &nbsp;He had a 3.7 average at the university.
Interesting...

I'm curious, Craig...

What is your impression of Blacks, sir? (If you don't mind me asking)...

I'm a hard-working person, trying to put my life into perspective...

Another poster here, Hito, is another hard-worker....(a fellow filmmaker, I might say--although, he seems to be seasoned)...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't want to thwart, the discussion between you and Kasia...but, I'm a bit curious...

My impression is most of them don't go into fields like electrical engineering. Didn't look at it as possibly being interpreted negatively, I would have said the same thing about another group that is not heavily represented in the sciences/engineering. There is a different culture, perspective that goes into people choosing acceptable careers, and living in America the stereotype of engineers has traditionally not been attractive.

Althought I haved lived in America for most of my life, I don't really have much interaction with blacks. Going through public school, I was in a school district that was 98% white, 2% Asian. When I was at the university, I majored in computer science and this person was the only classmate that I ever had that was black. He was also my classmate because I suggested to him to take a certain teacher for "Operating Systems" class. I had met him outside of the office hours for a math professor when he was going in for some help for "Calculus 3".

In the world work, I have had limited exposure to blacks because they haven't worked with me. Whether or not that is because of hiring practices or a lack of interest into going into the field (or a combination) is another issue.

I was just making the comments for perspective to all those people that say there is no racism in the US and totally blaming it on the culture. Culture, value, etc. are definite issues that shape most people in a group, but there are exceptions. Whether or not the people that are the exception will be given an opportunity to prove that is a different story.

[Craig]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 10:49 AM
Well in reference to what has already been mentioned a disproportionate percentage of the East and South Asian populations that have recently moved here as descendents of highly educated professionals like engineers, scientists and lawyers. &nbsp;I don't really find that to be the general case among the Southeast Asians here. &nbsp;Many in certain groups (mainland SE Asia) are descendants of refugees and people who went against their governments to help the USA. &nbsp;Also I think there is quite a bit of corruption in Amerasian repatriation, when Amerasians could almost freely come to the US and bring there families along. &nbsp;However, from what I read about Vietnam, officiallys would blatantly deny real Amerasians and then later set them up with fake families (who would later abandon them) before they could get the paperwork. &nbsp;As for some of the other groups (Thais and Philipinos) many of the people are descended or related to workers of the world's oldest profession.
wow, i didn't know very much about amerasian repatriation...heard a bit about it, about how the amerasians would get ditched in the u.s. without a place to stay, etc. in oakland, some sympathetic restaurant owners have taken in these amerasians.

to add to your list...i also heard for the first time today that the war can also be a contributing factor. some vietnamese parents, for example, suffered from ptsd after the war and subsequently, whether genetically or by the way they raised their children, passed it on to them.
vietnamese gangs are known, in the streets and prisons, to be the most ruthless.

****

sorry, i'm jumping all over the place, but here's another thought. perhaps a lot of it has to do with cultural values as well. for example, perhaps a poor chinese immigrant family may still be able to flourish while a poor vietnamese immigrant family may not because their cultures view 'work ethic' differently.

I heard that the Vietnamese controlled the organized crime in Silicon Valley. Don't know the situation, perhaps some other people have better insight.

On the work ethic issue, it's definitely as issue and on a macro scale is related to things like why the Chinese are successful in business across Southeast Asia while the natives aren't. However, at the individual level that may not matter much to say the hardworking intelligent Vietnamese (or other) person trying to follow the same path but getting discriminated against when trying to make friends, get a job, etc.

I had some co-workers from another country before who voiced their opinions on subjects like "Malays are lazy and stupid, but I still have Malay friends" or "If I tried to bring a Malay into my group of friends, I would be ostracized". In retrospect, I don't see an equal opportunity and perhaps might even discourage some ambition if the person is going to get burned.

Perhaps some of these potentially ambitious SE Asians are just trying to go the path of least resistance. There will always be different subcultures and groups, but just because your peers are doing one thing or following one path doesn't mean one can't examine the situation and try to achieve different goals. However, it's still much more of a daunting task to break the mold when you have to face that much more adversity without any support network.

I think the heart of discrimination is getting a chance of being judged as an individual and not as just another member of group X, Y, Z.

[Reinhard H.]

Actually one theory of mine is that there are disproportionately many criminals among the Vietnamese, because in ancient times Vietnam used to be a Chinese prisoners colony where all the criminals from China were transferred.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 5 2002, 09:44 AM
Actually one theory of mine is that there are disproportionately many criminals among the Vietnamese, because in ancient times Vietnam used to be a Chinese prisoners colony where all the criminals from China were transferred. Maybe it has become ingrained in their gene pool.
really? i did a quick search and couldn't find anything on the web that talks about vietnam being a prisoner colony of china. care to cite a source?

[kasia]

vietnamese people were chinese? are you sure??

anyhow, re: my cultural values comment...i think i meant difference in culture rather than difference in cultural values. for example, some cultures, rather than working quickly through something, may work slower in order to get it right the first time. hopefully, you follow. so it's not that i'm saying that one group is lazy or not as hard-working that the other, but more that one group's practice may be more advantageous and/or adaptable to american society.

[Craig]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 06:16 PM
vietnamese people were chinese? are you sure??

anyhow, re: my cultural values comment...i think i meant difference in culture rather than difference in cultural values. for example, some cultures, rather than working quickly through something, may work slower in order to get it right the first time. hopefully, you follow. so it's not that i'm saying that one group is lazy or not as hard-working that the other, but more that one group's practice may be more advantageous and/or adaptable to american society.

According to Thai people, the Vietnamese are basically 1/3 Chinese, 1/3 Thai and 1/3 Indonesian. Don't know how common that belief is, maybe ask Buoywonder if he heard it before.

Well, I don't really know that many specifics of Vietnamese culture, but making a generalization about SE Asians is that they don't have the same core value systems (specifically industriousness, education) and also guanxi (in America). It's not really America, but I think the Chinese culture promotes qualities that tend to make people (as a group) more successful in this current day and age.

I've worked with teams in America, Europe (Sweden) and Asia (China & Singapore), and the driving force oftentimes really isn't getting something done right or wrong. Perhaps I'm too cynical though. Working is some of these companies and talking to my friends, we often wonder how some of these places are in business. See Dilbert for reference.

[kasia]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 5 2002, 02:44 PM
Actually one theory of mine is that there are disproportionately many criminals among the Vietnamese, because in ancient times Vietnam used to be a Chinese prisoners colony where all the criminals from China were transferred. Maybe it has become ingrained in their gene pool.
actually, come to think of it, i don't think china ever banished its criminals. capital punishment for everyone! :)

but either way, i don't think your theory would work, because america is a counter-example.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 5 2002, 02:44 PM
Actually one theory of mine is that there are disproportionately many criminals among the Vietnamese, because in ancient times Vietnam used to be a Chinese prisoners colony where all the criminals from China were transferred. Maybe it has become ingrained in their gene pool.
actually, come to think of it, i don't think china ever banished its criminals. capital punishment for everyone! :)

but either way, i don't think your theory would work, because america is a counter-example.
actually there was a time period... i think pre-Tang dynasty... not sure off the top of my head, that the emperor moved alot of criminals to around where guangdong is - and i'm pretty sure the chinese border did not include the southern regions of china that is included in the Qing dynasty and today's national borders. some academics say that cantonese is closer to the "original" chinese language than mandarin.

[Craig]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 5 2002, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 5 2002, 02:44 PM
Actually one theory of mine is that there are disproportionately many criminals among the Vietnamese, because in ancient times Vietnam used to be a Chinese prisoners colony where all the criminals from China were transferred. Maybe it has become ingrained in their gene pool.
actually, come to think of it, i don't think china ever banished its criminals. capital punishment for everyone! :)

but either way, i don't think your theory would work, because america is a counter-example.
actually there was a time period... i think pre-Tang dynasty... not sure off the top of my head, that the emperor moved alot of criminals to around where guangdong is - and i'm pretty sure the chinese border did not include the southern regions of china that is included in the Qing dynasty and today's national borders. some academics say that cantonese is closer to the "original" chinese language than mandarin.

I don't know how reliable this source is, but it does mention the resettlement of undesirable types to Southern China.

Link (http://www.uglychinese.org/)

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 06:16 PM
vietnamese people were chinese? &nbsp;are you sure??

anyhow, re: my cultural values comment...i think i meant difference in culture rather than difference in cultural values. &nbsp;for example, some cultures, rather than working quickly through something, may work slower in order to get it right the first time. &nbsp;hopefully, you follow. &nbsp;so it's not that i'm saying that one group is lazy or not as hard-working that the other, but more that one group's practice may be more advantageous and/or adaptable to american society.

According to Thai people, the Vietnamese are basically 1/3 Chinese, 1/3 Thai and 1/3 Indonesian. Don't know how common that belief is, maybe ask Buoywonder if he heard it before.

Well, I don't really know that many specifics of Vietnamese culture, but making a generalization about SE Asians is that they don't have the same core value systems (specifically industriousness, education) and also guanxi (in America). It's not really America, but I think the Chinese culture promotes qualities that tend to make people (as a group) more successful in this current day and age.

I've worked with teams in America, Europe (Sweden) and Asia (China & Singapore), and the driving force oftentimes really isn't getting something done right or wrong. Perhaps I'm too cynical though. Working is some of these companies and talking to my friends, we often wonder how some of these places are in business. See Dilbert for reference.
here are a couple of sources on vietnam

http://www.asian-nation.org/vietnam.html
http://disc.cba.uh.edu/~lienhoa/history.shtml

and i'm unconvinced that there is some chinese cultural qualities that make people more "successful" in this day and age. i think that cantonese people are very money-driven and that has helped them in business. and i suppose the current economic boom in china is making northern chinese very money-driven too. but i don't really think it has anything to do with chinese culture. it's more like people are in a race to get rich.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 5 2002, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Oct 5 2002, 02:44 PM
Actually one theory of mine is that there are disproportionately many criminals among the Vietnamese, because in ancient times Vietnam used to be a Chinese prisoners colony where all the criminals from China were transferred. Maybe it has become ingrained in their gene pool.
actually, come to think of it, i don't think china ever banished its criminals. capital punishment for everyone! :)

but either way, i don't think your theory would work, because america is a counter-example.
actually there was a time period... i think pre-Tang dynasty... not sure off the top of my head, that the emperor moved alot of criminals to around where guangdong is - and i'm pretty sure the chinese border did not include the southern regions of china that is included in the Qing dynasty and today's national borders. some academics say that cantonese is closer to the "original" chinese language than mandarin.

I don't know how reliable this source is, but it does mention the resettlement of undesirable types to Southern China.

Link (http://www.uglychinese.org/)
ug... i've been to that site. it's very detail and it's a nice source. i've emailed a few times with the author, the site is just done by one person, not some company or organization. i like the historical information there, but once it gets to modern chinese history, it gets pretty political and blatantly biased against the CCP.

[Reinhard H.]

Actually I got my infos on Vietnam being a convicts colony from some book on Chinese history that I read a couple of years ago, it said that this was the first massive planned "population transfer" in human history and happened something like 2000 years ago or so, don't remember exactly. I think it is kind of noticeable that Vietnamese are heavily involved in gangs etc. in most western countries were they immigrated, I don't know what the reasons are, though.
Regarding Chinese success, I think the main reasons are:
1. work ethics
2. emphasis on education
3. career orientation (whites tend to choose professions according to interests, Asians those where they have good incomes)
4. strong family values (intact families are wealthier)