Men Allegedly Pay Homeless To Fight On Video

[SunWuKong]

Men Allegedly Pay Homeless To Fight On Video
Commercial Video Produced

SAN DIEGO -- Two Las Vegas men accused of paying street people to fight for a commercial video production, some of which was shot in San Diego, are expected to surrender to authorities in El Cajon, Calif., Thursday.

If things go as planned, Michael Joseph Slyman and Daniel Jamon Tanner, both 21, are expected to enter pleas immediately to charges of conspiracy, solicitation of a felony crime, and illegally paying people to fight, according to Liz Pursell of the San Diego District Attorney's Office.

Police also are investigating an allegation that the suspects threatened a witness in the case, Garcia said.

Two other Las Vegas residents, Zachary Bubeck, 24, and Ryan Edward McPherson, 19, were arrested recently after a three-month investigation by the La Mesa Police Department into the "Bumfights" tapes, said Lt. Raul Garcia.

Bubeck surrendered to El Cajon Superior Court officials Tuesday. Detectives arrested McPherson two weeks ago, Garcia said.

The $19.99 videos -- 300,000-plus copies of which reportedly have sold over the Internet -- show disheveled and bedraggled men engaging in fistfights and self-abuse, such as running headlong into steel doors and leaping off bridges.

A Web site promoting "Bumfights, Vol. 1" touts it as "the world's fastest-selling independent video" and includes images of brawling, bloodied "drunks" and "crackheads" along with still photos of semi-clad women.

Its producers offered street people cash payments as well as food, liquor and hotel rooms in exchange for their participation. The producers also warned them not to report the arrangement to authorities, according to investigators.

One person broke his leg during a taping session in La Mesa, the lieutenant said.

"They were offered money and moved to Las Vegas in furtherance of this act," he added. "(They) have since returned to San Diego County and are cooperating with the criminal investigation."

Police also are investigation an allegation that the suspects threatened a witness in the case, Garcia said.



the article (http://www.wnbc.com/news/1686471/detail.html)

i was able to download some of their clips off Kazaa (search for "bumfights"). also, here's their website - www.bumfights.com (http://www.bumfights.com)

[kasia]

which is worse--that it was videotaped or that human beings were paid money to hurt themselves?

if it's the latter, then i don't agree with the felony charges. it's not like our society is doing much for homeless people anyway--so this is their chance to make money. if it's exploitation that people are worried about, then they should feel similar anger towards sweatshop owners. if there is a concern with safety, the most severe injury was one broken leg.

has anyone ever seen 'love on a diet'?

[deez nuts]

I heard about this and I have been guilty of going to the site, watching a bum fight on occasion and laughed.

Playing devils advocate here:

Whats the difference between paying two homeless people to fight and allowing them to earn a little money? As opposed to, two prized fighters (De la Hoya vs Vargas, comes to mind) going at it to earn that multi-million dollar purse?



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 28 2002, 02:51 PM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 28 2002, 02:44 PM
has anyone ever seen 'love on a diet'?
yeah i watched that movie. it could have been much better if not for the ending. basically the movie ended up saying that only skinny people will live happily ever after. both of them should have stayed fat.

[kasia]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 28 2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 28 2002, 02:44 PM
has anyone ever seen 'love on a diet'?
yeah i watched that movie. it could have been much better if not for the ending. basically the movie ended up saying that only skinny people will live happily ever after. both of them should have stayed fat.
well, the referred to the movie b/c the bums were paid to fight and it was like a tourist attraction. didn't seem like a bad idea in the movie...

women have sex for money, men fight.

[Ayers]

Woohoo, San Diego makes it into the spotlight =\

I'm not sure about all the legal ramifications behind making these video tapes, but don't they sound similar in some ways to videos like Girls Gone Wild? That now-multi-millionaire who came up with the idea of taping girls flashing themselves is 'soliciting girls into committing misdemeanors, conspiracy, etc.' He doesn't even pay the girls to do it... I suppose if the bums were assaulting innocents then that's another story, but theyre not.

[Chris]

When my friend told me about the site and saw some of the clips. I thought it was horrible to actually paying this people down on their luck and make them fight for basic needs. (except for the liquor part). how truly saad.

[amietron]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 28 2002, 11:48 AM
I heard about this and I have been guilty of going to the site, watching a bum fight on occasion and laughed.

Playing devils advocate here:

Whats the difference between paying two homeless people to fight and allowing them to earn a little money? As opposed to, two prized fighters (De la Hoya vs Vargas, comes to mind) going at it to earn that multi-million dollar purse?
didn't read your reply until after i finished reading the article and deciding on what to post as my reply. agree with you, doc.

as against fighting as i am, in my opinion, homeless guy A fighting homeless guy B type fighting isn't THAT wrong as long as both parties make out with some pocket change. what? you want it to be a little classier? okay, tell ya what. the bums can fight in my rink. hop on in fellas. you're gonna be movie stars.

:x

-allow me to make it clear to you that i am not pro-making racket in the middle of the night and waking up the neighbors, or pro-letting little innocent children witness violence. just talking about the act of man A paying homeless men B and C to fight eachother.



<!--EDIT|amietron|Sep 28 2002, 07:57 PM-->

[kasia]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 28 2002, 07:48 PM
Whats the difference between paying two homeless people to fight and allowing them to earn a little money? As opposed to, two prized fighters (De la Hoya vs Vargas, comes to mind) going at it to earn that multi-million dollar purse?
yes. why is it a crime when two poor dudes try to make money off men fighting but acceptable when rich guys do it?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 30 2002, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 28 2002, 07:48 PM
Whats the difference between paying two homeless people to fight and allowing them to earn a little money? As opposed to, two prized fighters (De la Hoya vs Vargas, comes to mind) going at it to earn that multi-million dollar purse?
yes. why is it a crime when two poor dudes try to make money off men fighting but acceptable when rich guys do it?
The law, in its majestic equality, prohibits rich and poor alike from begging on the streets and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 28 2002, 07:48 PM
I heard about this and I have been guilty of going to the site, watching a bum fight on occasion and laughed.

Playing devils advocate here:

Whats the difference between paying two homeless people to fight and allowing them to earn a little money? As opposed to, two prized fighters (De la Hoya vs Vargas, comes to mind) going at it to earn that multi-million dollar purse?
I was thinking the exact same thing when I was reading the article.

I mean, the guys on jackass get paid for doing stupid shit. There's really no difference except that the bumfight doods aren't sponsored by MTV.

The makers of the video shouldn't be punished or anything. I mean, it just serves as a comment on how society is retarded these days. They're just smart enough to take advantage and appeal to the demands of society.



<!--EDIT|angel nympho|Sep 30 2002, 07:27 AM-->

[SunWuKong]

i agree with what most people have to say about the fighting part. but i downloaded an hour long video made by these guys, and it's not just fighting. some of it is very very degrading to homeless people. not to mention intrusive to their lives as well. arguably what they've been doing might not be considered illegal, but they definitely won't win any sympathy points from me for being sued.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 30 2002, 07:49 AM
i agree with what most people have to say about the fighting part. but i downloaded an hour long video made by these guys, and it's not just fighting. some of it is very very degrading to homeless people. not to mention intrusive to their lives as well. arguably what they've been doing might not be considered illegal, but they definitely won't win any sympathy points from me for being sued.
Well if somebody does something degrating or whatnot for money CONSENTUALLY, I don't see a problem with it. As long as it's treated as a business deal and nobody gets sheisted. As long as these people are WILLING to do it, I don't see much of a problem. I mean, a lot of people get paid to do some pretty shitty stuff in porno, but nobody's got a problem with that.

[ren28]

If the homeless people agreed to do it, I don't see a problem. If they were duped or forced, then it would be wrong but I didn't see any mention of that.

[SunWuKong]

perhaps you should try downloading the video...

***no, not all of it was consentual.***

but how are homeless people's privacy protected when they are living on the streets?

[ren28]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 30 2002, 08:16 AM
perhaps you should try downloading the video...

***no, not all of it was consentual.***

but how are homeless people's privacy protected when they are living on the streets?
They should get busted for the non-consentual stuff. How many people did not actually want it to happen and did they have a change of heart later or before the fact?