Is motherhood a real job?

[kitty]

The controversy comes up after Theresa Heinz Kerry's comment that the First Lady hasn't ever had a real job. Librarian and teacher stuff aside, some conservatives have gotten upset that Heinz Kerry implied that motherhood isn't a real job.

What do you think?

[nonamerasian]

Parenting is a job.

Period.

[VV o n g B a]

i've got nothing against mothers, but it ain't a "real job." doesn't mean its not hard work, but it's not something u fill out an application for and u don't get paid for it whether u do well or if u do poorly. its more like volunteerism. and i don't consider volunteerism a "real job."

[moser]

Parenting is a job.

Period.

I agree with this.

(Off topic, but how do single working parents (esp moms) do it? That's hard as hell.)

[Filiprish]

Hell yeah. It's the most important job, to society and family.

[kitty]

i've got nothing against mothers, but it ain't a "real job." doesn't mean its not hard work, but it's not something u fill out an application for and u don't get paid for it whether u do well or if u do poorly. its more like volunteerism. and i don't consider volunteerism a "real job."

i agree. it's tough work. but you can't like... be fired... from being a mom or dad.

[Faithless]

Well, if a day care worker is a job, then motherhood sure should be.

[applehead]

i've got nothing against mothers, but it ain't a "real job." doesn't mean its not hard work, but it's not something u fill out an application for and u don't get paid for it whether u do well or if u do poorly. its more like volunteerism. and i don't consider volunteerism a "real job."

then what do you consider a "real" job?
just anything that rewards you with monetary means?

[golden_buns]

i've got nothing against mothers, but it ain't a "real job." doesn't mean its not hard work, but it's not something u fill out an application for and u don't get paid for it whether u do well or if u do poorly. its more like volunteerism. and i don't consider volunteerism a "real job."

It's not something you can fill on an application, but when I think about what my mom had to go thru raising me and my brother, I'd say than it's a though full time job

[so_fee_ahh]

Sure if driving like a maniac in a SUV (damn soccer moms!) and eating all the fucking Cheetos in the cupboard while absorbing all the evil brainwashing of Dr. Phil is a job...fuck, sign me up! :wink:

[hooligan]

As a guy, I believe that motherhood is a 24/7 job and responsiblity.

[Faithless]

As a guy, I believe that motherhood is a 24/7 job and responsiblity.
That's until her kids get to be your age. :wink:

I hope.

[golden_buns]

sign me up! :wink:

volunteering to become a baby making machine?

[John0101]

i've got nothing against mothers, but it ain't a "real job." doesn't mean its not hard work, but it's not something u fill out an application for and u don't get paid for it whether u do well or if u do poorly. its more like volunteerism. and i don't consider volunteerism a "real job."

what is a real job then?

Babysitters get paid, is that a real job?

Nannies get paid and you can put it on a resume, is that a real job?

[mrazntre]

Prostitutes get paid and it's hardwork but they can't put it on a resume. They still call it a job.

I think that motherhood is hard work.


Theresa Heinz Kerry should be talking about that shit. She married a freaking billionaire and became the heir to the Heinz fortune. What kind of work other than 'workin it' has she been doing all her life? Talk about the kettle calling the pot black....

[applehead]

Prostitutes get paid and it's hardwork but they can't put it on a resume. They still call it a job.

I think that motherhood is hard work.


Theresa Heinz Kerry should be talking about that shit. She married a freaking billionaire and became the heir to the Heinz fortune. What kind of work other than 'workin it' has she been doing all her life? Talk about the kettle calling the pot black....

and i can't imagine laura bush being the typical mother
that we all have in mind.
she probably had nannies, babysitters, housekeepers, cooks..etc.

[Faithless]

Sure if driving like a maniac in a SUV (damn soccer moms!) and eating all the fucking Cheetos in the cupboard while absorbing all the evil brainwashing of Dr. Phil is a job...fuck, sign me up! :wink:
See, that's where you are so, so wrong!

It's Wheat Thins, not Cheetos.

And it's not Dr. Phil, it's The View.

[hooligan]

See, that's where you are so, so wrong!

It's Wheat Thins, not Cheetos.

And it's not Dr. Phil, it's The View.
i totally read what sophia wrote, wrong. haha. (pretend "sign" wasn't there).

[VV o n g B a]

from dictionary.com: A regular activity performed in exchange for payment, especially as one's trade, occupation, or profession.

there are certainly informal meanings for the word, but kitty asked if it was a "real" job. it isn't. and again i reiterate that i think it's damn hard work. no argument there.

[Faithless]

i totally read what sophia wrote, wrong. haha. (pretend "sign" wasn't there).
Maybe she's referring to the lazy muthas. :rolleyes:

All the mamma's I know, work/have worked hard at it.

There's motherhood for the homemaker, and motherhood for the career-oriented.

But I guess there is also motherhood for those just like to make babies and nothing else.

[moJo]

i think motherhood is a real job when the kid is young and at home all day (baby, toddler, kindergarten). when the kid is in school until 3 or 4pm, that's a different story.

[Faithless]

^ Well, depending on the mother's situation, there's --

* The bus-driver mom. (After school, field trips.)
* "Get me something to eat after school, mom" - mom.
* Prep for the family by going shopping (school clothes, supplies, etc.) mom.

And then there's the kimpossible mom's who sit on their asses and play Doom when the kids are away. :tongue:

[kitty]

i agree with vvongba. motherhood is really hard WORK and props to all the moms out there. but it's not a real job. there is no interview process, you have no supervisor, no employer, there is no paycheque, no prerequisites, no hours, and you can't really quit or get fired. you can't put it on your resume

I think it's kind of disrespectful to motherhood, besides, to call it a 'job'.

[yoMAMA]

It's a great job.

:smile:

[>:^|]

I'm curious about what Kerry meant here. Is she disparaging full-time parents? Is she implying that Laura couldn't hold a "real" job? Or that she should have been working outside of the home? In any event, stay-at-home moms come from largely very privileged families--many mothers can't afford not to work outside the home. And other very privileged people work outside of their homes at philanthropic organizations in which they manage their own great wealth.

And I think dictionary definitions aren't everything that is embedded in a word.

[Emperor_Mike]

If you have four kids it's a career.

[kitty]

i honestly don't know that heinz herry had parenthood in mind when she was talking about the first lady. remember, it was actually a family friend of the bushes who brought up the whole motherhood thing in the context of this quote. i believe heinz kerry was insinuating that the woman was out of touch with the middle-class.

[so_fee_ahh]

See, that's where you are so, so wrong!

It's Wheat Thins, not Cheetos.

And it's not Dr. Phil, it's The View.

Maaaan, pssschaa! Whatever! It's all about the Cheetos...otherwise my ass wouldn't be big enough (I want it to be a full moon when I bend to touch my toes, woooweee!) to block all the kiddies' view as I'm vacuuming in front of the tv and they're yelling at me to move so they can watch the Teletubbies...it's all about keeping it real AND BIG, yo! :rolleyes:

Dr. Phil is creeeeeeeeepy but I guess if I wanna keep to my "job" description...gotta watch what the old bald man has to say, riight.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Parenting IS a difficult job, but it isn't a job in the legal sense-- hiring, firing, promotion, salary, etc.... If a working woman wants to be a stay-at-home mom, i totally respect her for it, but it is not by legal standards, a formal occupation (imo)... unless you are taking care of someone else's children. Babysitters are hired informally though.... So, blah.

[TB4000]

It is a job, though I guess the rewards you reap aren't of the materialistic value, more like pride in raising your young and everything.

[Kuchana]

It's an informal job and something to be proud of.

[Bishop]

Ya know, in a sense it could be a job if you include the husband in the loop....

let's say the mother can get up all hours of the night and take care of the kids, then while the father is at work she takes the kids to school, cleans the house, picks the kids up, cooks the family a meal, cleans some more, then puts the kids to bed. Then to top it off she has to take care of her man (The boss) and if she doesn't do a good job she gets divorced (fired), if she does a good job she gets praised and treated to blessings (payment) with the additional (benefits) of foot rubs, gift, etc.

So you COULD say it's a job right?

[Kuchana]

Ya know, in a sense it could be a job if you include the husband in the loop....

let's say the mother can get up all hours of the night and take care of the kids, then while the father is at work she takes the kids to school, cleans the house, picks the kids up, cooks the family a meal, cleans some more, then puts the kids to bed. Then to top it off she has to take care of her man (The boss) and if she doesn't do a good job she gets divorced (fired), if she does a good job she gets praised and treated to blessings (payment) with the additional (benefits) of foot rubs, gift, etc.

So you COULD say it's a job right?

So then with that, we could say that before they get married, the dating/courtship could be seen as an interview in a sense? :)

The employer/supervisor could be seen as the husband although I certainly don't see my husband as the boss, morelike an equal relationship. The hours could reflect the times where the mother is taking care of the kids along with doing all the housework/chores and running the errands and goodness knows what else. The paycheck could be applied to where the husband brings in the money from his job and in turn supporting his family.

[Bishop]

Ya, even better explanation. Uh-oh, did I sound like one of those bad husbands there? Didn't mean to make it seem like the husband is in control of her life.

God I miss my wife and kids!

[PropellerheadCP]

Of course motherhood is a real job. It's one of the most important ones, on the planet. People forget that we're a species on the planet and we need much more than just money and careers.
Family values are shooting don't the toilet as the days go by and people still don't understand why it's important to have those values. I used to work at a toy store and I've seen a lot of new parents. Let me tell you, I'm really scared to see how some of these kids will grow up, with these parents who blame their kids behavior on everything else except their own lack of responsibility towards their offsprings.

[asvenus]

it IS a real job..think about it..a mother combines just about every other job on the planet into one cheery little role..doctor, psychiatrist, chauffeur, chef, cleaner, counsellor, teacher, playworker, activities co-ordinator etc etc..the list goes ooonnnnnnnnn....hence why im pretty happy to wait for that 'promotion' for a little while yet!!

[kitty]

it IS a real job..think about it..a mother combines just about every other job on the planet into one cheery little role..doctor, psychiatrist, chauffeur, chef, cleaner, counsellor, teacher, playworker, activities co-ordinator etc etc..the list goes ooonnnnnnnnn....hence why im pretty happy to wait for that 'promotion' for a little while yet!!

but no one is saying that motherhood isn't a DIFFICULT job, but it's not exactly like every other job. You do all those things, but you don't have training, you can't get fired, and you can't put it on your resume. What defines a job in the legal sense is all of those things.

The employer/supervisor could be seen as the husband

:eek:

Okay, do people see fatherhood as a real job also?

[ChinaLama]

i agree. it's tough work. but you can't like... be fired... from being a mom or dad.

if you fuck up as a mother or father, your child can be taken away from your care. That's sort of like being fired. :)

I also think a lot of recent feminist theory has proposed that housewives should be compensated. They're contributing to the economy in less visible ways than someone at a factory, but they're still contributing. I remember reading something like that in a class on theories of equality but this was more than 2 years ago.

The employer/supervisor could be seen as the husband although I certainly don't see my husband as the boss, morelike an equal relationship.


... or you could see it as the mother being "self-employed" or in a partnership rather than have the man in the role of employer or supervisor.

[kasia]

of course it's a job.

and in the context of asian families, the supervisor is typically the mother-in-law. =p

[Mr.Lum]

Do moms get paid?

[kasia]

also, note that we're talking about asian families - so the mom really is in the business of raising a future overachiever. so, mom's job involves not only driving the children to and from places (which i believe is what a lot of white mothers do), but also finding the best tutors, signing their kids up for kumon, finding the best violin and piano teachers, learning the children's practice schedules and ensuring that they keep up with it, bringing the kids to chinese school, probably teaching at chinese school or at least volunteering, being a room mother, dance class, tennis practice, etc.

along with all of this comes cooking for the entire family. and not just one entree like typical american families, but 3 dishes and a soup. and not canned soup. and no dishes can be repeated throughout the week. and if you're traditional, dessert can't be just ice-cream or pie.

in-laws. if you're a daughter-in-law that is not working, be prepared to take your husband's parents to all of their doctor's appointments, etc. cleaning the house.

asian moms also all have OCD. no shoes in the house, but they're still constantly vacuuming the carpet and waxing the floors. cleaning the bathrooms. all beds are always made everyday.

throw church into all of that and i think you'll have yourself an 80-hour / week job.

[VV o n g B a]

also, note that we're talking about asian families - so the mom really is in the business of raising a future overachiever. so, mom's job involves not only driving the children to and from places (which i believe is what a lot of white mothers do), but also finding the best tutors, signing their kids up for kumon, finding the best violin and piano teachers, learning the children's practice schedules and ensuring that they keep up with it, bringing the kids to chinese school, probably teaching at chinese school or at least volunteering, being a room mother, dance class, tennis practice, etc.

along with all of this comes cooking for the entire family. and not just one entree like typical american families, but 3 dishes and a soup. and not canned soup. and no dishes can be repeated throughout the week. and if you're traditional, dessert can't be just ice-cream or pie.

in-laws. if you're a daughter-in-law that is not working, be prepared to take your husband's parents to all of their doctor's appointments, etc. cleaning the house.

asian moms also all have OCD. no shoes in the house, but they're still constantly vacuuming the carpet and waxing the floors. cleaning the bathrooms. all beds are always made everyday.

throw church into all of that and i think you'll have yourself an 80-hour / week job.
if the things u list are part of a job, then all of life = job. at some point (in my mind at least) there must be a separation of job from life.

[tapestrybabe]

ahh well,
real job or not...

gonna be showing
some love to my own mom
this mothers day...

yeah, go moms!!!

[relus]

A real job is when you earn $$ period.

[Commando_turned_MD]

God no!!

No income= not at job..
It's a hobby.

I want to surf all day, but I cant.....
Females/Males that stay home to watch the kids are just plain lazy...
Go find a real job!

[jz87]

internet gambling is a real job in contrast to motherhood.

[hooligan]

As a male, I just want to add that I am in strong support of motherhood as a full time job. I don't think this society gives enough credit to women who try to be good mothers and we really need to show women support for an otherwise thankless job. The idea, for those who might not know, is that labor is divided into the public and private sphere. Women tend to contribute both to working a job within the public sphere, but also double duty in the private sphere. While working in the public sphere women's labors are rewarded by money, but when in the private sphere they are not acknowledged for the work and responsibility they take when they raise children. I think that women ought to be compensated by this country because honestly, being a good mother (or parental figure) can really contribute to this society. I wanted to add some positive comments to an otherwise negatively patriarchal thought process. Now, guys, let's stop posting in the women's forum.

[mvprg]

yeah, parenthood is the hardest job imo.

[nola]

yes, thank you, ben. the private sphere is given short shrift socially and economically. parenthood is a most difficult and important job.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I agree that parenting is difficult and of utmost importance, but from an economic standpoint frankly it'd be hard to assign some type of monetary value or a certain amount of salary to it simply because parenting is almost always voluntary and done for at least some type of self-benefit or fulfillment. How many mothers would suddenly quit their jobs as mothers if they stopped receiving salary, should a salary be put into place? Should there be a new industry created for women (or even men) to provide "wet-nurse" or child-care type services for other women without the time or resources to care for their own offspring? From a social aspect, we tend to attach value to those jobs that receive the highest salaries, so on this note I'd definitely agree that mothering (as well as other occupations such as teaching or law enforcement) is underappreciated and other occupations are overappreciated.

[Commando_turned_MD]

yeah, parenthood is the hardest job imo.


How can this be the hardest job?
What type of skills does this job require?
Child rearing has NOT evolved since the stone ages
Change diapers, feed, etc...etc.....does not equate to being hard.

yes, thank you, ben. the private sphere is given short shrift socially and economically. parenthood is a most difficult and important job.


Not difficult...........
Important job.....yes

[Arex]

While I think stay-at-home parenthood can, in some cases, rightfully be viewed as a "real" job given all the responsiblities that come with it, I don't think it can fairly be compared to other work-for-pay jobs. Nor do I think it should be directly compensated.

As others have pointed out, it is a volunteer position. No one, 'cept those that may be married to backwards assholes, is required to stay at home to watch the kids and cook and clean. Moreover, being a stay-at-home parent is typically a luxury reserved for those who don't need to get a paying job (either because of familial wealth or the spouse's wealth/income).

Regarding whether stay-at home-parents/housewives/househusbands should be compensated, the stay-at-home parents who do all the childcare, cooking and cleaning are already indirectly being compensated to the extent that the family does not have to spend money for day care or babysitting or a housekeeper. If I could stay at home and have the ability to take care my own kids, prepare my own healthy meals, keep my home immaculate while catching daytime television AND still get a salary, I'd quit my present job.

As for the notion that being a housewife/househusband is difficult, I think that depends on your level of involvement with the kids, the size of your house and the family's eating requirements. If your day consists of making sure your kids eat their cereal and have their lunch money, providing transportation to and from school, doing a little dusting or vacuuming around the house, grocery shopping, preparing a two course meal for dinner and then washing the dishes, and the rest of your time is spent watching daytime TV, going to the gym or walking the dog, YOU HAVE A PRIVILEGED LIFE. So while the contributions of a stay-at-home parent/housewife/househusband should never be taken for granted, let's also not overemphasize the role that they play, or underemphasize the contributions of the working parent that enables the other to stay at home.

The ones that are truly worthy of credit are the parents that hold full time jobs and still have to come up with the time to handle parenting responsibilities and cooking and cleaning. That's what I intend to be.=) Of course, I'd much rather marry rich and become a househusband, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

RX