parental notification requirement

[kasia]

bush is for the notification.

Mandatory Parental Consent and Notification Laws

March 2001, Item: F039

Although the U.S. Supreme Court recognized the right to choose abortion in Roe v. Wade in 1973, and reaffirmed that right in June 1992 in Planned Parenthood v. Casey, the Court has permitted states to dramatically restrict the ability of young women to obtain abortion services. More than half of the states in this country are currently enforcing laws that require a young woman seeking an abortion to notify or obtain the written consent of one or both of her parents prior to the procedure (see Restrictions on Young Women's Access to Abortion Services). Some states also impose a mandatory delay of twenty-four hours or more after notification has been made. At a time when the rate of teenage pregnancy continues to rise in the United States, mandatory parental involvement laws effectively deny young women access to the full range of reproductive choices.

Supporters of mandatory parental involvement assert that such measures will protect the health and promote the best interests of young women - and improve family communication. In reality, these laws threaten the health and well-being of young women. Although abortion is one of the safest surgical procedures, the medical risks and expenses of abortion increase significantly after the first trimester. Parental involvement laws force young women who are unable to comply with notice or consent requirements to delay obtaining appropriate medical care. For those who are fearful of the consequences should their parents learn of their pregnancies or abortion decisions, the resulting delays may be much longer as they seek court approval or travel out of state to obtain abortions. Some young women, unable to meet or avoid the requirements of the law, will attempt to self-abort or seek dangerous illegal procedures. Others will be forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term.

Some proponents of parental involvement promote notification rather than consent requirements in an effort to appear more supportive of young women's health needs and family circumstances. But for the vast majority of young women, notification and consent are essentially the same. If a young woman is afraid to discuss her pregnancy and abortion choice with a parent, there is no difference between having to "tell" her parents or being required to obtain their consent for the procedure. Moreover, in most instances, mandatory notification poses as much of a danger as mandatory consent. A parent who is opposed to a young woman's abortion choice can prevent her from obtaining the medical care she needs even if consent is not required.

Regardless of state mandates requiring disclosure, most young women discuss their pregnancies and choices to have abortions with at least one of their parents; studies show that the younger the woman, the more likely she is to involve her parents in her decision. In addition, whether or not they are required to do so by law, health care providers routinely suggest that a young woman involve her parents if possible. When young women avoid parental involvement in their abortion decision, the choice is usually well justified. Even in the best of circumstances, candid communication about sexuality and reproductive issues may not take place in families. Mandatory notification and consent requirements are not an effective means of encouraging more open discussion and can actually damage relations among family members.

In families where abusive relationships or other problems prevent good communication between parents and their teenage daughters, state-mandated discussions can exacerbate existing problems. For battered teenagers and incest survivors in particular, mandatory parental involvement laws increase the risks in an already dangerous situation. Domestic violence affects as many as four million women a year in the United States. Fifty-five percent of children in families where the adult woman is battered also suffer from physical violence. In addition, one female child in five is sexually assaulted - and many become pregnant. Fear of additional violence may prevent these young women from informing their parents of their abortion decisions.

Parental involvement laws also fail to recognize that many young women live in nontraditional family situations - with one parent, stepparents, other relatives, or on their own. In such cases, laws that require them to contact both biological parents make it difficult, if not impossible, to obtain abortion services. Also, numerous young women involve other adults - grandparents, siblings, teachers, social workers, or the parents of their boyfriends - in their decisions. Narrowly defined parental involvement laws ignore the importance of such supports in young women's lives.

The Supreme Court has ruled that parental consent and two-parent notification laws may be constitutional if they include an "alternative," such as a judicial bypass procedure, to waive the requirement for young women who cannot involve their parents. To take advantage of a court bypass, a young woman must appear before a judge and prove either that she is mature enough to decide whether to have an abortion or that permitting her to obtain the procedure without involving her parents would be in her best interests. Requiring a young woman to discuss her pregnancy and personal details about her life before strangers in a courtroom adds unnecessary delays and further stress. Many young women do not have access to transportation to get to the courthouse and find it difficult to take time off from school or work in order to appear at a hearing. Although the Supreme Court requires that bypass procedures be confidential and expeditious, many young women may find their confidentiality threatened, especially if they live in rural areas or small towns. In some instances, judges arbitrarily reject young women's petitions based on their personal views about abortion. Even though it is clear that physicians are better able than judges to consider the circumstances a pregnant young woman faces, only a handful of states allow a physician to waive the parental involvement requirement if it is not in the young woman's best interests.
In order for young women to obtain the health care they need, mandatory parental involvement laws must be substantially modified or repealed. Rather than imposing restrictions on young women's access to a certain health care procedure, policymakers and advocates should work to ensure that all young people can obtain accurate sex education and comprehensive, confidential health care services.

[Mr.Lum]

There are 3 kinds of people; conservatives, Evangelical Christians, and other religious extremists.

Government should keep thehell out of people's personal business.

[applehead]

i'm a bit surprised to read that most young
women seek parental guidance when it comes
to unexpected pregnancies.

[Mr.Lum]

I'm not really, I mean whose gonna drive them? j/k But I think that's the smart thing to do, it's hard to hide a pregnancy for long....

[applehead]

I'm not really, I mean whose gonna drive them? j/k But I think that's the smart thing to do, it's hard to hide a pregnancy for long....

i meant unexpected pregnancies in regards to their
choice for abortions.
i was under the impression that most young girls
keep their abortions a secret from their parents.

To take advantage of a court bypass, a young woman must appear before a judge and prove either that she is mature enough to decide whether to have an abortion or that permitting her to obtain the procedure without involving her parents would be in her best interests.
and that is just ridiculous to me.
how do you prove that?

[Mr.Lum]

By being humiliated by the federal government.

[kasia]

by the time you get before the judge, you'd probably be a few more months into the pregnancy.

[ism]

So much for medical privacy. What HIPAA did, this will undo. For fair turnabout, let's open the medical records of elected officials to the public. As the elctorate, we need to make sure they will be capable of serving the public good without any risk of ill health. For greater family communication, let's make parents 50% culpable for their children's actions, so Bush will have more incentive to be involved with Jenna and Barbara before they get intoxicated again. I'm not really sure why Bush cares so much about what teenagers do, after all, whatever happens are simply "youthful indiscretions."

[rice cracker]

Kerry made a good point when he said he voted against parental notification because if a 16 or 17 year old girl was raped by her father, he's not going to make her get her father's consent for the abortion.

[younggiftedandblack]

But shouldn't there be some type of parental involvement if it's an really underage child? I'm talking 12-15 years old here. Maybe it should be a anyone over 18 notification law.

[kasia]

But shouldn't there be some type of parental involvement if it's an really underage child? I'm talking 12-15 years old here. Maybe it should be a anyone over 18 notification law.

like notify anyone who is over 18?

[younggiftedandblack]

like notify anyone who is over 18?

Pretty much. A social worker or someone. Look at like this, you have a 14 year old who's gotten pregnant. She's scared and she'll need some type of gudiance.

If this was to pass, do they just need to notify their parents or would they need permission also?

[missmeow]

Someone needs to be notified as to the medical follow-up and recovery. An abortion is a medical procedure that carries with it risks, primarily of bleeding and infection. While those risks are rare, they still exist and I think can be exacerbated if left to a (irresponsible) child to take care of and/or monitor. I don't think it has to be the parents because there is an issue of notification vs permission there, but at least an adult who will be able to make sure the child goes through proper follow-up.

[kasia]

i meant unexpected pregnancies in regards to their
choice for abortions.
i was under the impression that most young girls
keep their abortions a secret from their parents.

me, too. but i think we're referring to mostly asian girls - or basically us and our friends when we were younger, right? we just tend in general to be more secretive with our parents.

but whatever, it's not like they'd consider our culture or care to have an ethnic exception. either we fit in with the mainstream...or suffer the consequences.

[deez nuts]

chicks under 18 should not be engaging in dumpster baby activities.

[kasia]

Pretty much. A social worker or someone. Look at like this, you have a 14 year old who's gotten pregnant. She's scared and she'll need some type of gudiance.

If this was to pass, do they just need to notify their parents or would they need permission also?

they do have that - where a social worker or nurse has to counsel them on their options. we have to be really careful with this, though, because historically, these counseling sessions were used to scare the patients out of considering abortion as an option. so there has to be some sort of regulation on what type of counseling is allowed.

[Mr.Lum]

they do have that - where a social worker or nurse has to counsel them on their options. we have to be really careful with this, though, because historically, these counseling sessions were used to scare the patients out of considering abortion as an option. so there has to be some sort of regulation on what type of counseling is allowed.

But isn't it like, the goal of the government to reduce abortions and force people to not have them? Government is obnoxious "small government" then they're regulating abortions and sexual positions.

[kasia]

chicks under 18 should not be engaging in dumpster baby activities.

we have this law in CA allowing a baby to be anonymously surrendered, but i don't know about other states.

it's a pretty good campaign - i've seen the "NO SHAME, NO BLAME, NO NAMES" posters are in courts, hospitals, shelters, police stations.

one ad reads, "Don’t abandon your newborn. Instead, take your baby to any hospital emergency room, county health center,Kaiser medical office or fire station in Contra Costa County.FOR IMMEDIATE HELP, CALL:(800) 833-2900. Every child deserves a chance for a healthy life. For three days after you give birth,you can bring your baby to any of the sites listed above. As long as the baby has not been neglected or abused, no names will be necessary and the parents will not be prosecuted. Babies will get medical care and be placed in foster care."

but jeez, what if your 15-year-old friend just gave helped you give birth in a bathroom and things didn't happen too smoothly. would that be considered neglect or abuse?

and this law obviously doesn't prevent abortions. because i guarantee you, an asian chick with strict parents will want to get rid of the baby before her pregnancy becomes visible.

But isn't it like, the goal of the government to reduce abortions and force people to not have them? Government is obnoxious "small government" then they're regulating abortions and sexual positions.

roe v. wade.

bowers v. hardwick - overturned.

so, in answer to your questions and the latter comment, "no, that's not true at all."

[deez nuts]

we have this law in CA allowing a baby to be anonymously surrendered, but i don't know about other states.

it's a pretty good campaign - i've seen the "NO SHAME, NO BLAME, NO NAMES" posters are in courts, hospitals, shelters, police stations.

one ad reads, "Don’t abandon your newborn. Instead, take your baby to any hospital emergency room, county health center,Kaiser medical office or fire station in Contra Costa County.FOR IMMEDIATE HELP, CALL:(800) 833-2900. Every child deserves a chance for a healthy life. For three days after you give birth,you can bring your baby to any of the sites listed above. As long as the baby has not been neglected or abused, no names will be necessary and the parents will not be prosecuted. Babies will get medical care and be placed in foster care."


NY has that too. it's called the safe haven law.

when i say dumpster baby, it also means dumpster baby parts. it's a slang we use at work. it's the end result when a woman gets an abortion.

[kasia]

NY has that too. it's called the safe haven law.

when i say dumpster baby, it also means dumpster baby parts. it's a slang we use at work. it's the end result when a woman gets an abortion.

k, i understand.

and it's hard to argue with a strong statement like that.

but just as no baby should end up in a dumpster (i.e., be aborted in this contexted), no baby should have to be born to a 16-year-old crack mother and later be taken into custody by Children's Protective Services and placed in a foster home where the white foster father is actually a pedophile. i deal with these cases daily and i always wonder, "why didn't she just get an abortion?"

[deez nuts]

k, i understand.

and it's hard to argue with a strong statement like that.

but just as no baby should end up in a dumpster (i.e., be aborted in this contexted), no baby should have to be born to a 16-year-old crack mother and later be taken into custody by Children's Protective Services and placed in a foster home where the white foster father is actually a pedophile. i deal with these cases daily and i always wonder, "why didn't she just get an abortion?"

what i was trying to say earlier was:

i don't believe a minor should be allowed to get an abortion without an adult's notification and consent. not from a pro-life or pro-choice standpoint cuz i really don't really care about either of those two standpoints. but, from strictly a medical standpoint.

[BigLew]

what i was trying to say earlier was:

i don't believe a minor should be allowed to get an abortion without an adult's notification and consent. not from a pro-life or pro-choice standpoint cuz i really don't really care about either of those two standpoints. but, from strictly a medical standpoint.What from a medical standpoint is the difference in an underage pregnancy?

[applehead]

Pretty much. A social worker or someone. Look at like this, you have a 14 year old who's gotten pregnant. She's scared and she'll need some type of gudiance.

If this was to pass, do they just need to notify their parents or would they need permission also?

a proper clinic that performs abortions legally
will always have a worker specifically for
that purpose. they're in good hands.
although, kasie is right, the doctors always
recommend that the girl come back the next
day after thinking it over.

i just think that regarding abortions, a restriction
here, a restriction there will eventually, in the future,
make abortion illegal in the US.
i just don't want that to happen.

[deez nuts]

What from a medical standpoint is the difference in an underage pregnancy?


it's not underage pregnancy nor is it really pro-choice or pro-life. more along the lines of minors, consent and performing a political charged and controversial procedure.

granted physicians have the choice on whether or not to perform abortions. it's more of a shielding of oneself from the political aftermath, if one chooses to perform an abortion on a minor from her adult guardians. if i were to do an abortion on a minor, the only way i would do it is with notification and consent from an adult. i don't care what her story is. no adult consent. no abortion procedure. it's your body. but, their my hands.

this was actually a major topic of discussion in a medical ethics class i took. you have pro-choice on one end. you have pro-life on the other end. physcians are caught somewhere in the cross fire.

[kasia]

it's not underage pregnancy nor is it really pro-choice or pro-life. more along the lines of minors, consent and performing a political charged and controversial procedure.

granted physicians have the choice on whether or not to perform abortions. it's more of a shielding of oneself from the political aftermath, if one chooses to perform an abortion on a minor from her adult guardians. if i were to do an abortion on a minor, the only way i would do it is with notification and consent from an adult. i don't care what her story is. no adult consent. no abortion procedure. it's your body. but, their my hands.

this was actually a major topic of discussion in a medical ethics class i took. you have pro-choice on one end. you have pro-life on the other end. physcians are caught somewhere in the cross fire.

i can empathize with why you feel that way. but if that's the case, why not just make that a personal decision? i'm sure there are doctors who feel more strongly about pro-life than doing anything and everything to protect their butts. so let them do it.

[deez nuts]

i can empathize with why you feel that way. but if that's the case, why not just make that a personal decision? i'm sure there are doctors who feel more strongly about pro-life than doing anything and everything to protect their butts. so let them do it.

it's already assumed that it's a personal decision. learning about abortions and performing abortions is optional in non-catholic hospitals if you're an ob/gyn resident. catholic hospitals forbid teaching and performing abortions.

i'm not saying that they shouldn't do it. by all means if they wanna do it. they should do it. you missed the point. i'm saying, I would rather notify and get consent from an adult if i were to perform an abortion on a minor so in my eyes this is a good thing. it was more of a personal comment on my part.

[kasia]

it's already assumed that it's a personal decision. learning about abortions and performing abortions is optional in non-catholic hospitals if you're an ob/gyn resident. catholic hospitals forbid teaching and performing abortions.

i'm not saying that they shouldn't do it. by all means if they wanna do it. they should do it. you missed the point. i'm saying, I would rather notify and get consent from an adult if i were to perform an abortion on a minor so in my eyes this is a good thing. it was more of a personal comment on my part.

gotcha. so you don't think parental consent/notification should be a requirement by law.

[deez nuts]

gotcha. so you don't think parental consent/notification should be a requirement by law.


yes. personally i think parental/notification should be a requirement by law for minors granted there are extenuating circumstances i.e. pregnancy as a result of incest. but, generally speaking, yes it should be required by law.

because if i were a parent i would want to know if my baby daughter got knocked up and decided to initiate fetus extraction protocol. i think any good resposnsible parent would want to know.

[kasia]

yes. personally i think parental/notification should be a requirement by law for minors granted there are extenuating circumstances i.e. pregnancy as a result of incest. but, generally speaking, yes it should be required by law.

because if i were a parent i would want to know if my baby daughter got knocked up and decided to initiate fetus extraction protocol. i think any good resposnsible parent would want to know.

so it has little to do with the liability issue but rather what you think is right, am i correct?

i'm sure that any responsible parent would want to know. and i'm sure most teens irresponsible enough to get knocked up with go through illegal routes to get rid of their baby before her parents find out. you have to have been a teenage asian girl at one point to understand the pressure.

[deez nuts]

so it has little to do with the liability issue but rather what you think is right, am i correct?

it has to do with both.

i'm sure that any responsible parent would want to know. and i'm sure most teens irresponsible enough to get knocked up with go through illegal routes to get rid of their baby before her parents find out. you have to have been a teenage asian girl at one point to understand the pressure.

sure that's one extreme. the other extreme being that a girl actually goes to her parents after she gets knocked up to discuss her options. and yes, one of the options being abortion.

[kasia]

it has to do with both.



sure that's one extreme. the other extreme being that a girl actually goes to her parents after she gets knocked up to discuss her options. and yes, one of the options being abortion.

but see, that's the thing. it's not that extreme. an extreme would be committing suicide or using a coat hanger or something. but i've been a young asian girl and many of my friends around me were irresponsible. some of us didn't know about planned parenthood at the time, so i've had friends just take a bottle of tylenol and do constant sit-ups to avoid telling their parents. friends running on the treadmill 24:7 to avoid telling their parents. friends asking their bfs to punch them as hard as they can in their stomachs to avoid telling their parents. trust me when i say that vast of us will do anything to avoid telling our parents. they would have run away and gone out of the country to get an abortion if it came down to it.

[deez nuts]

but see, that's the thing. it's not that extreme. an extreme would be committing suicide or using a coat hanger or something. but i've been a young asian girl and many of my friends around me were irresponsible. some of us didn't know about planned parenthood at the time, so i've had friends just take a bottle of tylenol and do constant sit-ups to avoid telling their parents. friends running on the treadmill 24:7 to avoid telling their parents. friends asking their bfs to punch them as hard as they can in their stomachs to avoid telling their parents. trust me when i say that vast of us will do anything to avoid telling our parents. they would have run away and gone out of the country to get an abortion if it came down to it.

so what's your solution?

if a minor needs adult consent for a routine appendectomy, why shouldn't she need parental consent for something like an abortion?

correct me if i'm wrong here. what happens if something goes wrong on the table. she's a minor. her consent means nothing in the eyes of the law. that means the only one culpable is the physician.

[kasia]

so what's your solution?

if a minor needs adult consent for a routine appendectomy, why shouldn't she need parental consent for something like an abortion?

correct me if i'm wrong here. what happens if something goes wrong on the table. she's a minor. her consent means nothing in the eyes of the law. that means the only one culpable is the physician.

that's why i said it should be the personal decision of the physician whether or not to take that risk. just as it is a personal decision of many attorneys who represent juvenile delinquents. nobody's requiring you to do it. so if you don't want to, then just don't.

re: the consent - i just explained why. teenage girls won't try to hide the fact that they need an appendectomy. they will, however, go to great lengths to hide that they got pregnant.

[deez nuts]

that's why i said it should be the personal decision of the physician whether or not to take that risk. just as it is a personal decision of many attorneys who represent juvenile delinquents. nobody's requiring you to do it. so if you don't want to, then just don't.

i said it is a personal decision. i'm all for you made your bed now sleep in it motif.

why can't you protect both your personal belief and your profession? why does it have to one or the other? i mean there's gotta be some common ground here.

let me get this right: in your opinion, a 15 year old pregnant girl can walk into a clinic and get an abortion? i don't believe a 15 year old girl is capable of making such a decision without weighing the pro's and con's of the procedure.

re: the consent - i just explained why. teenage girls won't try to hide the fact that they need an appendectomy. they will, however, go to great lengths to hide that they got pregnant.

all the more reason to notify the parents if she's a minor trying to get an abortion.

[kasia]

i said it is a personal decision. i'm all for you made your bed now sleep in it motif.

why can't you protect both your personal belief and your profession? why does it have to one or the other? i mean there's gotta be some common ground here.

i'm just saying it shouldn't be made law if it's just your personal belief and not necessarily for the greater good.

all the more reason to notify the parents if she's a minor trying to get an abortion.

that's the thing. teenage girls aren't retarded. if there is a notification requirement in place, we're going to know about it. and we just won't go that route.

[deez nuts]

i'm just saying it shouldn't be made law if it's just your personal belief and not necessarily for the greater good.



that's the thing. teenage girls aren't retarded. if there is a notification requirement in place, we're going to know about it. and we just won't go that route.

and i'm saying it should be made a law cuz it protects the minor (this is the main reason i believe why we're debating. whether it really does protect the patient or not) and physician while also upholding the physician's pro life beliefs.

[kasia]

and i'm saying it should be made a law cuz it protects the minor (this is the main reason i believe why we're debating. whether it really does protect the patient or not) and physician while also upholding the physician's pro life beliefs.

but then read the article in the first post. the evidence is almost undisputed. most women in this forum will tell you - the notification law will make us delay getting the abortion or use alternative, dangerous methods. that's just the truth of it. many states have implemented the law, and the consequences are just that.

i really don't see a point in arguing that - it's akin to bush maintaining that there are still WMD in iraq. it simply isn't safer for young women because it will force us to make decisions that are more dangerous for our health.

imagine if you had a daughter. who was afraid to tell you about her pregnancy. who then went to some quack because she couldn't go to any licensed doctor without avoiding the requirement. imagine if the quack messed up. it would be difficult for you to still insist, unequivocally, that the law should be in place when she turns to you and says, "dad, i was too scared to tell you and i had no other choice."

[applehead]

imagine if you had a daughter. who was afraid to tell you about her pregnancy. who then went to some quack because she couldn't go to any licensed doctor without avoiding the requirement. imagine if the quack messed up. it would be difficult for you to still insist, unequivocally, that the law should be in place when she turns to you and says, "dad, i was too scared to tell you and i had no other choice."

exactly.
if a girl has made up her mind to not tell her
parents and decided to have an abortion,
a law stating that she needs parental consent
in order to get an one isn't going
to make her tell her parents.
at this point she has already contemplated
telling her parents and decided that wasn't an option.
it's going to force her to look for other ways to
get out of her situation.

i just think this is very dangerous.
i'm sure when we were young
many of us were in situations where
coming clean with your parents about something
seemed so scary that death seemed like a better
option.

[deez nuts]

but then read the article in the first post. the evidence is almost undisputed. most women in this forum will tell you - the notification law will make us delay getting the abortion or use alternative, dangerous methods.


i don't think that's really a bad thing to delay the abortion and contemplate it a bit. i mean you do have what 24 weeks? i would even say at this point in our discussion that parental consent isn't necessary, but it should be the first option pursued. if it fails or if the girl disagrees some sort of consent by an adult like a counselor who talked to the girl. i mean if i had a daughter if she couldn't come to me cuz she spread her legs and got knocked up; i would like her to have the guidance of a trained adult. possibly have the counselor sign as proxy for the parent. this would probably open up a new can of worms. but still for me as a father, i would feel more at ease in the fact that she wasn't alone in the whole process.

i agree the alternative which is the rusty clothes hanger is dangerous. perhaps then we should also educate young girls about the pros and cons of abortion. alternative methods. ways to seek guidance, if they can't come to the parent. and show them pics of girls bleeding out in these fly by night abortion clinics.