polygamy

[kasia]

my cousin's grandfather had two wives. the older one babysat us sometimes. we called her "dah-ma" (older grandma) and the other one "xiao ma" (younger grandma). they seemed fine with the arrangement. their kids seemed fine with it.

is it immoral even if all parties are comforatable with the way things are?

[angel nympho]

Well I guess if everybody agrees with it, it's not exactly cheating. I've got no serious moral issue with it.

[SunWuKong]

because of Singapore's declining population count, Lee Kuan Yew actually suggested legalizing and promoting polygamy. needless to say it didn't go over very well. so they gave financial incentives instead for people who marry and have kids.

[deez nuts]

Two thumbs up so long as it's all consentual.

[kimpossible]

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but can anyone tell me what the titles are between three wives?

#1 is _______
#2 is _______
#3 is _______

[deez nuts]

dai ma
zong ma
xiao ma

or in the case of more than 3 wives, they are referred to as the number followed by "ma"






<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 22 2002, 05:30 PM-->

[Chris]

I see no problem with pologamy just as long everyone is okay with it.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 22 2002, 05:21 PM
dai ma
zong ma
xiao ma

or in the case of more than 3 wives, they are referred to as the number followed by "ma"
zong ma? really? i've never heard of that. i would have thought that with 3 or more wives, the first and last ones might either use "dai" and "xiao" or be numbered, and all the middle ones would be numbered. is there really an official title for kids to call them? i know that servants would call them "dai lai lai" for the first wife and "(number) lai lai" for all the other wives.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 22 2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 22 2002, 05:21 PM
dai ma
zong ma
xiao ma

or in the case of more than 3 wives, they are referred to as the number followed by "ma"
zong ma? really? i've never heard of that. i would have thought that with 3 or more wives, the first and last ones might either use "dai" and "xiao" or be numbered, and all the middle ones would be numbered. is there really an official title for kids to call them? i know that servants would call them "dai lai lai" for the first wife and "(number) lai lai" for all the other wives.
It depends really, I know some that are referred to in that way also.

I have heard zong ma being used in that aspect, because my mom's childhood friend was a child borned by the 2nd wife of three wives and they refer to her as zong ma. Whereas my mom, whose dad had 5 wives the first wfe is dai ma, the fifth is xiao and 2,3,4 is referred to as number followed by ma.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 22 2002, 06:07 PM-->

[kimpossible]

Does it make a difference if these people are unrelated and in a higher social position than our family?

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 22 2002, 06:40 PM
Does it make a difference if these people are unrelated and in a higher social position than our family?
Not sure I understand the question.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 22 2002, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 22 2002, 06:40 PM
Does it make a difference if these people are unrelated and in a higher social position than our family?
Not sure I understand the question.
I'm prolly thinking in Japanese. Terms change for people based on how they're related to you socially and who you're speaking to. Don't worry about it. I just wanted to avoid a situation where I use the wrong title. Right now I avoid calling them anything because I'm afraid I'll screw it up.

But back on topic and to add a little more rant to the rant topic - I heard of one polygamy case that really grossed me out. This woman become one of like eight of the guys wives... no big deal. But she had a daughter from a previous marriage, around 12, and the guy became sexually interested in her. So the woman divorced the guy and allowed him to marry her (then) 13 year old daughter. I think the guy was in his 40s or something.

[Reinhard H.]

Aside from the islamic countries is polygamy still legal in any Asian country today? When was it outlawed in Taiwan?

[ren28]

My g-pa on mom's side had three wives. I think it's ok as long as everyone is cool with it.

[wylin]

i wannabe a biblical king from isreal (whose name i wont mention) who had 1000 wives. thats wat u call pimp!

[kasia]

is it also okay if it is the other way around--with a woman having more than one husband? it sounds like the general consensus is that there is nothing inherently wrong with polygamy. why is it outlawed then?

[wylin]

thats not right ! its unheard of and just plain wrong!

[deez nuts]

Hey if guys can have polygamy. I don't see why women can't have polyandry. So knock yourselves out.

As to why it's illegal? <shrug>.

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 25 2002, 04:42 PM
Hey if guys can have polygamy. I don't see why women can't have polyandry. So knock yourselves out.

As to why it's illegal? <shrug>.
Polygamy is illegal probably for the same reason that same-sex marriages are illegal: Our heterosexual, monogamous lawmakers don't like it.

Personally, polygamy makes me uncomfortable. It seems to me that its primary practicioners are members of fringe religions who want to have an edge in propagating their families — and thus their beliefs.

But despite my discomfort, I must concede that if I believe all private relationships between consenting adults are none of my business, then I can't honestly argue against mutually consentual polygamy.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Apr 20 2003, 05:23 PM
But despite my discomfort, I must concede that if I believe all private relationships between consenting adults are none of my business, then I can't honestly argue against mutually consentual polygamy.
Yeah, but when a 50-year-old Mormon dude wants to marry a 16-year-old girl who's never left the family farm, the line between "consenting" and "coerced" gets pretty blurry. I knew a girl whose father was Sudanese and mother was English, and her dad married another woman sometime during the girl's childhood. She hated the second wife, but I guess her mom got along OK with her because they stayed married.

[angelwiththesword]

become a mormonite. polygamy is fun

[ChinaLama]

polygamy's been forbidden in mormonism for ummm...100 years.

become Muslim. they're allowed 4 wives, right? and god knows how many concubines.

or become a really old-style Jew. I mean Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines. and i don't think that includes the casual fucks. :lol:

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Apr 20 2003, 11:58 PM
Yeah, but when a 50-year-old Mormon dude wants to marry a 16-year-old girl who's never left the family farm, the line between "consenting" and "coerced" gets pretty blurry.
In the United States, it's not "blurry" at all — it's outright illegal. Here, the age of consent is 18. Therefore, a 16-year-old being pushed into marriage by her parents is not an adult and therefore not in a consentual relationship.

[rakovlam]

I mean Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines. and i don't think that includes the casual fucks.

That's why I want to be the wisest one of all.

[teaz0r]

my grandfather had over 5 fives. and countless illegitimate children
with his concubines and what not. we have a huge family gathering
each year, so we get to be familiar with each other in order to avoid
inbreeding, you know, so we won't like end up fucking each other.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Apr 20 2003, 08:19 PM
polygamy's been forbidden in mormonism for ummm...100 years.
that's the official stance of the mormon church. but some mormons still practice it.

[YuheiCarreau]

How common is polygamy in Asia, anyway? Especially for non-Muslim Asians?

[kimpossible]

I wouldn't call it legal per se but it seems to be like a lot of things in Asia; as long as you have a lot of money and power no one is going to tell you it's wrong.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by wylin@Sep 23 2002, 12:09 PM
i wannabe a biblical king from isreal (whose name i wont mention) who had 1000 wives. thats wat u call pimp!
When you think about it that would be nasty.....cause that's a LOT of people related to a LOT of other people.....i.e. you have just greatly increased the chances of one of your kids marrying another one (and not even knowing that they are related).

[girlmagnet]

there are actually many indochinese people with 2 wives
the husband is not marrying the first wife
so he can go back to his country to get a much younger wife
then he married the woman so she can stay
it should be easy for a guy like me to go to asia to get another woman
i don't know how they can support so many kids
moslems and catholics also have so many kids because they don't believe in abortion

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Apr 20 2003, 11:00 PM
How common is polygamy in Asia, anyway? Especially for non-Muslim Asians?
it's not very common in HK, unless you're talking about older people, from at least 2 generations ago, i'd say, who brought the practice from china. however, having mistresses is pretty common with a lot of HK men, especially those that go to mainland china to do business.

i think it's probably the same in mainland china, but not because society there is westernised like in HK, but because china went through decades where they tried to get rid of "old traditions" and, at least on the surface, advocated gender equality. the funny thing with gender equality in china is that there was actually more of it before capitalistic practices were introduced back in china in the early 80s. people were too poor back then. most men did not have the social and financial status that they'd need to have second wives or mistresses, and also, women needed to go out and work in order for the family to survive, giving women more power. now that capitalism is re-introduced, men are becoming more powerful, and many women can afford to stay home instead of go out and work, thus actually giving them less power, and women on the whole are seeing less equality.

[thaite]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 20 2003, 07:31 PM
that's the official stance of the mormon church. but some mormons still practice it.
It's been forbidden by revelation from God, though some critics say it was forbidden mostly likely to comply with the conditions that granted Utah statehood.

It is still practiced on the fringes of the Mormon church, mainstream Mormons will pretty much disregard them, saying the polygamist bunch are not 'real' Mormons.

At the end of it, though polygamy is not currently practiced by Mormons as ordered by a revelation from God, all it would take are favorable political conditions and another revelation and the Mormons again would take up polygamy.

[Azn Retribution]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Apr 20 2003, 05:54 PM
In the United States, it's not "blurry" at all — it's outright illegal. Here, the age of consent is 18. Therefore, a 16-year-old being pushed into marriage by her parents is not an adult and therefore not in a consentual relationship.
actually here in texas i believe its 17.

[Fireblade]

I don't think I could handle the stress of two wives. :P

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Fireblade@Apr 21 2003, 03:44 PM
I don't think I could handle the stress of two wives. :P
yeah really. one woman is already trouble enough.

[Uncle Tat]

Don't some people in Utah (Mormons mostly I think) still do this? And it's considered legal...

I saw a documentary on this a while ago...

[thaite]

Typically, a polygamist is legally married to the first wife, and then by some type of religious ceremony to the subsequent wives.

It's not legal, they just aren't prosecuted. The polygamist's live (mostly) along Utah's southern borders, so IF the authorities come after them, they just retreat across the border.

[nonamerasian]

I don't care about it.

I wouldn't call it legal per se but it seems to be like a lot of things in Asia; as long as you have a lot of money and power no one is going to tell you it's wrong.

I think so, too.

It is illegal in parts of Nepal, but even polyandry is practiced in some parts.

I saw on TV that the practice is dying.

[kuilong]

_The Armchair Economist_ by Steve Landsberg makes an interesting argument as to how self-interest leads to polygamy being illegalized. Damned if I can remember it now though.

[krome]

so they gave financial incentives instead for people who marry and have kids.
Wow, does this world really need more people? My god...
------
As far as modern-day polygamy, it happens in the USA still (not even including Mormons). (http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/03.01.01/harris1-0109.html) Regardless of social convention, there will always be a few playas who want harems in any country...

[Kuchana]

that's the official stance of the mormon church. but some mormons still practice it.

I beg to differ. The ones who practice polygamy are ex-communicated Mormons. They may well call themselves Mormons still but they're not members since they keep defiantly practicing polygamy.

There are also members that branched off from the LDS church to form their own church called The Re-Organized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[kuilong]

I beg to differ. The ones who practice polygamy are ex-communicated Mormons. They may well call themselves Mormons still but they're not members since they keep defiantly practicing polygamy.

There are also members that branched off from the LDS church to form their own church called The Re-Organized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

There's plenty of Latter Day Saints who have their own churches (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_Day_Saint) for a list), some of which still condone plural marriage. The Reorganized church (which now calls itself the Community of Christ) is only one of them (BTW, if it wasn't clear, the Community of Christ does not condone plural marriage, neither has it ever).

Latter-day Saint, on the other hand (notice the minor changes in capitalization and punctuation) are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Salt Lake City, which claims (IIRC) over 12 million members.

All these churches form a part of the "Latter Day Saint" movement, and many of them consider all the others to be illegitimate, and themselves the true heirs of Joseph Smith's teaching. Using the word "Mormon" is confusing, and saying that those not in the LDS church aren't Mormons is an example of a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

[kimpossible]

I think all Kuchana is saying is that polygamy is not part of official, mainstream Mormon church and more along the lines of the kooky offshoot branches present in most major religions. Whatever the case, the 'wives' don't fit the legal definition of spouse to my knowledge.

[Kuchana]

I think all Kuchana is saying is that polygamy is not part of official, mainstream Mormon church and more along the lines of the kooky offshoot branches present in most major religions. Whatever the case, the 'wives' don't fit the legal definition of spouse to my knowledge.

Thank you. Yes that's what I was saying:)

[rasheedgonzales]

is it also okay if it is the other way around--with a woman having more than one husband? it sounds like the general consensus is that there is nothing inherently wrong with polygamy. why is it outlawed then?
my guess would be that it’s because in a lot of cultures, lineage is through the father. if a woman were allowed to have multiple husbands, the lines of lineage would be all messed up... there’d be a ton of confusion regarding which husband would be the father of which child.

also, someone asked whether 4 was the correct number of wives a muslim is allowed to have... yeah, that’s correct. 4’s the maximum number of wives a muslim can marry. about the concubines, there’s no real limit... although it should be stated that today, the only way a muslim can really get concubines or “slave girls” is by capturing female prisoners of war.

[kimpossible]

It is illegal in parts of Nepal, but even polyandry is practiced in some parts.

I saw on TV that the practice is dying.

Was it an episode of Globetrekker? Ian goes to the wedding where the girl marries 6 boys ranging in age from 6-16? Something like that.

[moJo]

my grandfather had two wives. i didn't even know she was his second wife until a few years ago. i had always thought that she was their servant/maid/housekeeper. although she was respected and loved by my mother and her siblings (and us as well - she's my only living grandparent now), she was still second to my grandmother, who didn't have to do much around the house at all. in that respect, i don't think polygamist relationships are okay, because the two wives were not treated with equal respect. that's not right.

[John0101]

my grandfather had two wives. i didn't even know she was his second wife until a few years ago. i had always thought that she was their servant/maid/housekeeper. although she was respected and loved by my mother and her siblings (and us as well - she's my only living grandparent now), she was still second to my grandmother, who didn't have to do much around the house at all. in that respect, i don't think polygamist relationships are okay, because the two wives were not treated with equal respect. that's not right.

did they ever have kids?

I agree with moJo, involving yourself in a polygamy is fine as long as all the parties are happy.

But for me, there can only be one woman in my life.

[moJo]

did they ever have kids?
she had a son, but he died at a young age, i think he was under 5 yrs old.

[nonamerasian]

Was it an episode of Globetrekker? Ian goes to the wedding where the girl marries 6 boys ranging in age from 6-16? Something like that.

No. I must have missed that episode. :frown:

Perhaps it was on Taboo? :confused: Whichever show it was on, I want to say that it was on either Discovery or the National Geographic Channel.

There was a Nepalese farm woman married to a couple of siblings.

Guys there don't always know who's the father of the children, but don't seem to have a problem with it.

Things are matrilineal for those who practice.

I miswrote in the post above, though. I believe polygamy is illegal in all parts of Nepal, but polyandry is practiced in some parts.

Education may bring the death of it.

[krome]

Was it an episode of Globetrekker? Ian goes to the wedding where the girl marries 6 boys ranging in age from 6-16? Something like that.
There are some matriarchal societies in SW China like the Mosuo, etc. that practice rather liberal s*xual traditions. I don't know if the women practice polygamy though.