fashion over racism

[kasia]

why do i always see at least one asian female in a given abercrombie store?

if looking good meant you had to compromise your values, would you?

[younggiftedandblack]

why do i always see at least one asian female in a given abercrombie store?

if looking good meant you had to compromise your values, would you?

Your assuming that they know about the history with that company. We get alot of tourist from Asia here and you might see them in an A&F store buying stuff. Even if they were AA you still can't be certain that they know of the history.

[Mr.Lum]

Why are you in Abercrombie? lol.

[kasia]

Why are you in Abercrombie? lol.

you can see from outside. but sometimes i like to go in to accidentally knock the clothes off their shelves.

[NotAsian]

Well then, maybe they were all there to knock the clothes off the shelves...

[yoMAMA]

you can see from outside. but sometimes i like to go in to accidentally knock the clothes off their shelves.

Nice.

:biggrin:

BTW...i know an asian guy that buys almost exclusively from abercrombie. :rolleyes:

[kasia]

allow me to rephrase the question, then, so that we don't get off topic. there are a number of people that i am acquainted with that shop at forever 21 and abercrombie even though they are well aware of the atrocities that these companies commited against the API community. some rationalize it by arguing that, if they had to pay attention to these issues while they shopped, they pretty much wouldn't be able to shop anywhere because practically every corporation runs sweatshops. other friends, however, just don't care. they happen to like that skirt or pair of jeans and, really, if they refrain from buying it, it's not like they're going to see what sort of impact they are making.

[Mr.Lum]

there are a number of people that i am acquainted with that shop at forever 21 and abercrombie

What did Forever 21 do?

[kasia]

on forever 21:
For Immediate Release
March 10, 2004

CONTACT:
Christina Chung, 213-977-7500, ext. 239

Spanish language press
Julia Figueira-McDonough, ext. 213

Korean language press
Minah Park, ext. 220

Chinese language press
Julie Su, 213-718-5817

Garment Workers Victorious in Ninth Circuit Sweatshop Decision Against Forever 21

LOS ANGELES—In a much-anticipated decision, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals recently handed low-wage workers a significant victory by refusing to affirm a lower court’s ruling that garment workers could state no valid legal claims against a clothing retailer for sweatshop abuses. On March 9, 2004, the Ninth Circuit issued a decision in Castro, et al. v. Fashion 21, Inc., et al. (U.S.D.C. No. CV-01-09487-R), reversing the Central District Court’s previous dismissal on the merits of a lawsuit by nineteen garment workers who alleged that Fashion 21, Inc. (otherwise known by the label “Forever 21”) was legally responsible for the sweatshop conditions under which they made clothes for the popular private label retailer.

In its decision, the Ninth Circuit found that the workers’ claims against Forever 21 “involve novel and difficult questions under California law….A major statute upon which the [workers] rely is recently enacted legislation that the California courts have not construed.” The Ninth Circuit then reversed District Judge Manuel Real’s dismissal in March 2002 of the workers’ lawsuit and ordered the federal court to dismiss the workers’ state law claims against Forever 21 without prejudice, thus allowing the workers to proceed with their lawsuit against Forever 21 in state court.


“This decision is a tremendous step forward in the fight against garment sweatshops,” said Julie Su, Litigation Director of the Asian Pacific American Legal Center (APALC), a non-profit civil rights organization that represents the workers in the lawsuit. “The Ninth Circuit has affirmed that the workers’ claims against Forever 21 are alive and kicking. The decision sends the message that retailers like Forever 21 who create, perpetuate and demand sweatshop labor could ultimately be held responsible for workplace abuses,” commented Su.


On September 6, 2001, nineteen garment workers who labored in six different Los Angeles sweatshops filed a lawsuit against Forever 21 alleging that the company violated state wage and hour laws, engaged in unfair and unlawful business practices under state law, and was negligent in its use of sweatshops. The workers alleged that for varying periods of time between February of 1998 through June of 2001, they typically labored six days a week, nine to twelve hours a day, were routinely denied their legal wages while making clothes for Forever 21, and were not provided with meal breaks or rest breaks. In addition to long hours and substandard wages, the workers alleged that they were subjected to other deplorable and illegal working conditions, such as unsafe and filthy factories that were poorly lit, poorly ventilated, filled with fabric dust, and infested with vermin.


“The workers’ lawsuit reveals that the use of sweatshop labor by Forever 21 is not an isolated occurrence, nor is it an accident, but is a matter of business choice—an unfair and unlawful one,” said Christina Chung, staff attorney at APALC. “Retailers exercise tremendous power over the garment production process and then turn a blind eye to workplace abuses. Although Forever 21 obviously does not want the public to hear this, the Ninth Circuit decision makes clear that workers who attempt to hold retailers liable for sweatshop abuses deserve their day in court,” said Chung.


The nineteen workers who filed the original lawsuit, together with additional workers who have since stepped forward, intend to proceed with their claims against Forever 21 by filing a lawsuit in state superior court.

For interviews with the garment workers involved in this case, contact Joann Lo or Kimi Lee, at the Garment Worker Center, 213-748-5866.

[SunWuKong]

i would say that most Asian people i know do not know about the A&F issue. maybe that's just the east coast.

[younggiftedandblack]

allow me to rephrase the question, then, so that we don't get off topic. there are a number of people that i am acquainted with that shop at forever 21 and abercrombie even though they are well aware of the atrocities that these companies commited against the API community. some rationalize it by arguing that, if they had to pay attention to these issues while they shopped, they pretty much wouldn't be able to shop anywhere because practically every corporation runs sweatshops. other friends, however, just don't care. they happen to like that skirt or pair of jeans and, really, if they refrain from buying it, it's not like they're going to see what sort of impact they are making.

OK I see your point now. Like you aid some people just don't care or care just enough to say something, but not do anything. Then again what's offensive and important to you as an AA woman may not be offensive and important to another AA woman.

[truMp]

Many people are uneducated about the A&F issue, which is why so many still buy their clothes. at least where i live.

[PropellerheadCP]

Meh. I've told a couple of friends about A&F, but it hasn't stopped them from bringing home bags of clothes from them, everytime they go shopping in the States. Some people simply don't care.
Obviously, they're no longer very close friends, due to differences in our perception of the world. One of them is ignoring the rest of the group, because we don't like her boyfriend, whom happens to be white. She used to listen to us, before she started dating this white guy.
Anyone see a pattern here?

[asvenus]

some people just dont give a shit...some do but are simply too lazy or demotivated to do anything about it...i spose if people cant see it directly affecting their lives then they dont give a shit

[applehead]

why do i always see at least one asian female in a given abercrombie store?

if looking good meant you had to compromise your values, would you?

it won't matter how good i look if i feel like crap
for compromising my values.
i see asian people in A&F store all the time
and i just wanna yell at them.
"don't you know what they did?"
*shake shake shake*
i also get really frustrated when i see
young asian kids wearing
clothing clearly from A&F.

[amietron]

two chinese american girls i know from middle school work at AF. i think it's mostly for the employee discount.

i don't shop at either forever 21 or AF. meh.

[Fireblade]

There are some who would rationalize that staying focused on everything racial will leave you bitter and full of hate. They simply imply that shopping at A&F is not selling out, or what-not, but an appreciation for fashion, and one that isn't dictated by those who tell them otherwise. They believe that shopping at a store doesn't mean anything politically or morally, and besides it's their money, and not anyone else's. How they choose to shop shouldn't be argued over ideologies.

Of course these people typically try to "normalize" themselves in society, trying to fit the "white-american" standard.

[robotic]

until the summer of 2002, i had not yet heard of sweat-shops used by businesses abroad, and the working conditions of labourers in third-world-countries that were employed. i must have been twelve at the time, when i read an article - and this led to more questions, which is why i tried to read on the subject matter as much as i could.

in a restaurant one day, while eating pizza with my friend, i noticed that she was wearing a gap sweatshirt. my eyes strayed towards the logo in block lettering and i kept quiet. i wasn't sure of what to say. at the age of twelve, telling a companion why i thought her clothing was inappropiate because of the brand she wore, seemed silly in my head. for that while alone.

i think, every time i go to a brand shop, i will remember what i heard, i will remember those words.

www.killercoke.org

[Faithless]

Well, the question is -- are enough Asians educated on the issue with A&F?

And if not, how do you get the word out in an effective manner?

I didn't know there was a thing with Forever 21. Then again, I've never heard of this store. :rolleyes:

[Mr.Lum]

My girlfriend shops at Forever 21 a lot. She doesn't go to AF as far as I know....

[Banana]

This is why the Asian American community deserves to get ignored. I, frankly, don't blame whites or whatever group decides to stomp on Asians because we don't stand up for ourselves. We can't even correct our own problems so why should everyone else give a crap about us?

Too many young AAs could care less about how much they get wronged. It's all about fear. Fear that speaking out against the white majority will somehow tarnish their ability to live and blend correctly into this country. Blissfully ignorant or apathetic Asian Americans want their love so bad. Our love isn't good enough.

What's even worse is that the white majority will use their apathy as ammunition to dismiss the rest of us.

I find these Asians more of an enemy than the racist white guy.

[applehead]

This is why the Asian American community deserves to get ignored. I, frankly, don't blame whites or whatever group decides to stomp on Asians because we don't stand up for ourselves. We can't even correct our own problems so why should everyone else give a crap about us?

Too many young AAs could care less about how much they get wronged. It's all about fear. Fear that speaking out against the white majority will somehow tarnish their ability to live and blend correctly into this country. Blissfully ignorant or apathetic Asian Americans want their love so bad. Our love isn't good enough.

What's even worse is that the white majority will use their apathy as ammunition to dismiss the rest of us.

I find these Asians more of an enemy than the racist white guy.

no one deserves to be ignored or be treated
unequal due to the color of one's skin. c'mon now.

and it's not just young AAs. a lot of young people
could care less. a lot of young people are unaware.
so you can't just say these kids are fearful about
speaking out. they don't know.
so asians who do know should spread the word
and try to educate them.

[BeTheReds]

i would say that most Asian people i know do not know about the A&F issue. maybe that's just the east coast.


Most Asian-Americans I know do know about A&F and most Non-American Asians don't.

Do you hang out mostly with US raised AAs or with Asian ppl who were raised overseas?





About the topic, AF is too expensive and looks shitty, so I don't shop there. When the t-shirts from AF came out I thought people were making a big deal over nothing. My thoughts on that have changed since.

[SunWuKong]

Most Asian-Americans I know do know about A&F and most Non-American Asians don't.

Do you hang out mostly with US raised AAs or with Asian ppl who were raised overseas?

most of the Asian people i know in this area are 1.5 genners. mostly Chinese. but also, most of them are yuppies, so that may be why they don't know. plus, if the Asian Americans you know are either college students or recent graduates, that may explain why they know.


About the topic, AF is too expensive and looks shitty, so I don't shop there. When the t-shirts from AF came out I thought people were making a big deal over nothing. My thoughts on that have changed since.

well, in a way i still think it's been made too big of a deal. but on the other hand, there is the consideration that if we aren't especially vocal about something like that, it'll just keep happening and non-Asian people in this society will never grow that extra sensitivity that they accord to interactions with black people.

[applehead]

most of the Asian people i know in this area are 1.5 genners. mostly Chinese. but also, most of them are yuppies, so that may be why they don't know. plus, if the Asian Americans you know are either college students or recent graduates, that may explain why they know.

yeah none of my friends knew about A&F.
i had to educate. ja know.

[Faithless]

If you think about it, the fashion over racism thing can extend past A&F and Forever 21.

What about the companies using slave labor to produce their stuff? (Oh Kathy Lee!)

Do you get that self-righteous about it? Go all hemp?

[mndeg]

abercrombie is so generic

[PropellerheadCP]

If you think about it, the fashion over racism thing can extend past A&F and Forever 21.

What about the companies using slave labor to produce their stuff? (Oh Kathy Lee!)

Do you get that self-righteous about it? Go all hemp?

There are a lot of problems that come with slave labour. What I hate about people shutting down such factories, like Kathy Lee, is that they don't think about the workers. Instead of trying to improve the working environments of the workers, they simply wash their hands of anything that has to do with them. Rich folks get applauded for pulling out and not using the cheap labour, but what about all those people who become unemployed?

Anyway, I think that the only people who knowingly choose fashion over racism, are people who think "white is right", anyway. Therefore, they're racist to begin with.

Personally, I find A&F's clothing line pretty dull.

[Faithless]

Timberland: are they all that?

Their President & CEO, Jeffrey Swartz, will be speaking at the --
Sixth Annual Conference for Corporate Social Responsibility and Workplace Standards (http://www.csrwire.com/article.cgi/3033.html)

What about the Gap?

Gap's New Look: The See-Through (http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/86/gap.html)
On May 12, Gap Inc. released a report that had jaws dropping in corporate boardrooms and activist corridors across the land. The 40-page "social-responsibility report" details, with unflinching honesty, the problems the $6.5 billion clothing retailer found in the 3,000 factories it contracted to produce clothing for its Gap, Old Navy, and Banana Republic brands. The company discovered persistent wage, health, and safety violations in most regions where it does business, including China, Africa, India, and Central and South America. The infractions range from failure to provide proper protective equipment to physical abuse and "psychological coercion." Though discoveries of the worst violations (such as child labor) were rare, Gap reported that it had pulled its business from 136 factories and turned down bids from more than 100 others when they failed to meet its labor standards.

None of the findings were especially surprising; labor abuses are a fact of life in the global apparel industry, where intense price competition continually drives factories to produce more clothing for less money. What was extraordinary was Gap's willingness to go public and reveal, in exceptional detail, its responses to these conditions. Even some of Gap's harshest critics say the company's candor will drive industry changes that ultimately improve the lives of factory workers. "Instead of dealing with a black box, we now have a window into data that can really help us make a judgment on how the company is progressing in its handling of these issues," says Conrad MacKerron, director of the corporate social-responsibility program for As You Sow, a nonprofit shareholder advocacy group. "This will put pressure on other retailers to do the same."
...

[asvenus]

most of the Asian people i know in this area are 1.5 genners. mostly Chinese. but also, most of them are yuppies, so that may be why they don't know. plus, if the Asian Americans you know are either college students or recent graduates, that may explain why they know.




well, in a way i still think it's been made too big of a deal. but on the other hand, there is the consideration that if we aren't especially vocal about something like that, it'll just keep happening and non-Asian people in this society will never grow that extra sensitivity that they accord to interactions with black people.

believe me that 'extra sensitivity' that is supposedly accorded to Black people isnt that sensitive...SWK do you really believe that people of African descent recieve some sort of wildly skewed break in life what with all the affirmative action, extra sensitivity, etc etc...im not attacking here...just interested :confused:

[SunWuKong]

believe me that 'extra sensitivity' that is supposedly accorded to Black people isnt that sensitive...SWK do you really believe that people of African descent recieve some sort of wildly skewed break in life what with all the affirmative action, extra sensitivity, etc etc...im not attacking here...just interested :confused:

i didn't mean to imply that black people have it great, but comparatively speaking in terms of the care that white people take to make sure they are not offending any black people, they do have it better than Asian people. for example, you're probably not going to hear a white comic use the word "nigger" for her routine anytime soon, but she might use the word "chink", refuse to apologise for it, and have other comics back her up on its usage.

basically if a media is accused of publishing/broadcasting materials that are racist to black people, an apology will materialise. if it was accused of publishing/broadcasting materials that are racist to Asian people, a dismissal of the accusation will materialise instead.

[asvenus]

thing is though, wouldnt you rather have respect from other people no matter how grudgingly (which i would suggest Asians get) rather than some pretence 'sensitivity' from some wanker trying to avoid being sued over discrimination/racism....i understand and accept what youre saying though, i just hate it...id rather someone be openly racist or whatever to my face rather than attempt to self congratulate themsleves on how 'sensitive and understanding' they are to 'my' people or something or for fear of being penalised for it, when really they are patroninsing gits you know...grrr (time of the month people..time of the month sorry!!)

[SunWuKong]

thing is though, wouldnt you rather have respect from other people no matter how grudgingly (which i would suggest Asians get) rather than some pretence 'sensitivity' from some wanker trying to avoid being sued over discrimination/racism....i understand and accept what youre saying though, i just hate it...id rather someone be openly racist or whatever to my face rather than attempt to self congratulate themsleves on how 'sensitive and understanding' they are to 'my' people or something or for fear of being penalised for it, when really they are patroninsing gits you know...grrr (time of the month people..time of the month sorry!!)

yes and no. remember, we are talking about the media here, and not just personal interactions. people are going to see that entertainers and entertainment venues regularly make fun of Asian people, they would believe that it's the normal thing to do, and that there's nothing wrong with it. and kids are especially vulnerable to be convinced of this.

and really sometimes the line between just being polite and having the mentality that something is unethical gets blurred. i seriously believe that while many people think that it is offensive to use the word "nigger", they also think that the word "chink" is ok.

[asvenus]

jes jes zis is true...not trying to make excuses but i think people are more aware of the history behind the 'n' word and all the atrocity that went along with it, even i do not know the origin of the word 'chink' or how it came to be used...do you see? not justifying it at all just saying it can be to do with the meaning you attach to something, although no-one has any right to use deroggatory terms against someone else and be allowed to think its 'cool/funny'

[artsfartsyjanet]

why do i always see at least one asian female in a given abercrombie store?

if looking good meant you had to compromise your values, would you?


yes and no. most of the clothes i wear are either no-name or brand name apparel. i probably will not shop at a & f anymore because I am aware of the issues surrounding their t-shirts and on a lesser note, employment, but i do look at their line of products simply because it is fashion. There are plenty of less or more popular brands that trace back to sweat shops. I am guilty of buying clothes with brands that trace back to sweat shops, but I am more inclined to buy clothes from retail that are more sensitive to the issues of sweat shops and racism/discrimination and are working to combat it while not jeopardizing the quality and style of the clothes and fabrics. Unfortunately, I do not know many. This begs the question, what clothing line out there do you know of that does not have sweat shops associated with it, are high quality clothing, at a reasonable price? Do tell.

[kasia]

yes and no. most of the clothes i wear are either no-name or brand name apparel. i probably will not shop at a & f anymore because I am aware of the issues surrounding their t-shirts and on a lesser note, employment, but i do look at their line of products simply because it is fashion. There are plenty of less or more popular brands that trace back to sweat shops. I am guilty of buying clothes with brands that trace back to sweat shops, but I am more inclined to buy clothes from retail that are more sensitive to the issues of sweat shops and racism/discrimination and are working to combat it while not jeopardizing the quality and style of the clothes and fabrics. Unfortunately, I do not know many. This begs the question, what clothing line out there do you know of that does not have sweat shops associated with it, are high quality clothing, at a reasonable price? Do tell.

well, a & f is different from your typical corporation that runs sweatshops in that it has a de facto policy of not hiring asians. that alone - sweatshop or no sweatshop - will stop me from buying anything from their store.

anyhow, i found this: http://www.responsibleshopper.org/

[Napoleon Chynamite]

well, a & f is different from your typical corporation that runs sweatshops in that it has a de facto policy of not hiring asians. that alone - sweatshop or no sweatshop - will stop me from buying anything from their store.

Really? I coulda sworn I saw some Asians working at an Abercrombie before a while back. Er...I was looking in from the outside of course :biggrin:

[applehead]

well, a & f is different from your typical corporation that runs sweatshops in that it has a de facto policy of not hiring asians. that alone - sweatshop or no sweatshop - will stop me from buying anything from their store.

anyhow, i found this: http://www.responsibleshopper.org/


hey kasie. great site.

i read just now some criticism
on some companies i'm familiar with
and it just makes my stomach cringe.
when i read shit like that i stay up all
night worrying about the future of mankind.

[bigwong235]

This begs the question, what clothing line out there do you know of that does not have sweat shops associated with it, are high quality clothing, at a reasonable price? Do tell.

american apparel (http://www.americanapparel.net/). when i went down to la for the tofu festival, i checked out this store cause it was super close. the clothes have a very simple style, and the prices are pretty reasonable. i didn't end up buying anything from the store though, cause the men's selection was a bit scanty. i'd like to go check out another store, but there's none here in the bay area.

my friend who is half filipino/half white worked at a&f this past summer.

thing is though, wouldnt you rather have respect from other people no matter how grudgingly (which i would suggest Asians get) rather than some pretence 'sensitivity' from some wanker trying to avoid being sued over discrimination/racism....i understand and accept what youre saying though, i just hate it...id rather someone be openly racist or whatever to my face rather than attempt to self congratulate themsleves on how 'sensitive and understanding' they are to 'my' people or something or for fear of being penalised for it, when really they are patroninsing gits you know...grrr (time of the month people..time of the month sorry!!)

this quote maybe think about this comic:

[BaiginLong]

Errr....question: Why is this in the Women's forum? Clearly men are also guilty of this also.