Bush praises Kerry's war record

[SunWuKong]

yup. too little, too late. Bush is too stupid to even run his own campaign.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3592964.stm

Bush praises Kerry's war record

US President George W Bush has praised the military record of his election rival, John Kerry, and called a halt to unofficial negative advertising.

Mr Kerry's campaign team has alleged Mr Bush backed ads by Republican-leaning Vietnam veterans which questioned Mr Kerry's record for bravery in the war.

The president said Senator Kerry served "admirably" and called for attacks by external campaign groups to be banned.

"The moment of truth came and went, and the president still couldn't bring himself to do the right thing," John Edwards, Mr Kerry's running-mate, said.

'War on terror'

President Bush refused to specifically criticise the ads attacking Mr Kerry while they were still on air last week.

Instead, his spokesman said the president himself had been the victim of similar attacks by "shadowy groups".

Questioned on Monday over whether he wanted to put a stop to the ads attacking Mr Kerry's war record, President Bush replied, "That means that ad, every other ad. Absolutely... I think they're bad for the system."

The president called on Mr Kerry to join him in condemning partisan ads paid for by groups not directly allied to the Republicans or the Democrats.

The real issue facing the electorate, President Bush said, is "who best to lead the country in the war on terror".

New Kerry ads

Senator Kerry has made his service in Vietnam - where he earned five medals for valour - a cornerstone of an election campaign dominated by concerns over national security, traditionally seen as a Republican strength.

Last week, Mr Kerry's team told the Federal Election Commission the ads - by a group calling itself the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth - were a front for President Bush's re-election campaign.

Mr Bush's spokesman denied the charge.

The ads alleged Mr Kerry exaggerated his valour in combat when he was awarded the medals.

Mr Kerry's team has released a new set of ads in which the men who served under him on a naval vessel in Vietnam pay tribute to his bravery.

[Faithless]

I think Bush realizes that he's got more to lose by attacking Kerry's time served. Hell, he didn't even serve, and that's got to look worse.

So, now Bush blames all the attack ads on the 527's.

http://www.iht.com/articles/535470.htm
"I don't think we ought to have 527s," Bush said, referring to independent political groups that are running ads on both sides of the political spectrum. "I can't be more plain about it and I wish - I hope my opponents join me in saying - condemning these activities of 527s. I think they are bad for the system." His press secretary, Scott McClellan, said that Bush had not intended to single out the Swift boat ad as one that should be stopped. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is a so-called 527 committee, named for a provision in the U.S. tax code that created them. Federal law allows such groups to raise unlimited donations and run advertisements as long as they do not expressly call for the election or defeat of a federal candidate and do not coordinate operations with a candidate's campaign.
There are probably as many legitimate attack ads against Bush.

[thaite]

Hmmmm, do i vote for the guy who used familial influence to avoid service, or for the guy who went to kill Asian people?

Hmmmm.

[Faithless]

^ Hm, that's an interesting point, since, if both candidates were democratic, fighting for the democratic ticket, say, the arguments might be a little different for the guy who didn't serve.

He could claim that he didn't want to fight an unjust war.

Why doesn't Bush just admit why he didn't want to go to Vietnam? Outside of the familial influence, could most Americans really blame him?

[hooligan]

Bush or Bush Lite? I don't know, Kerry should solidify his campaign.

[onnihs]

Hmmmm, do i vote for the guy who used familial influence to avoid service, or for the guy who went to kill Asian people?

Hmmmm.

I don't see Kerry killing Asian people... i see him killing commies. big difference. it's important to realize that above all, especially race, ideologies should be held accountable, IMHO.

[SunWuKong]

I don't see Kerry killing Asian people... i see him killing commies. big difference. it's important to realize that above all, especially race, ideologies should be held accountable, IMHO.

really? i see him killing people protecting their homeland from foreign invasion.

[onnihs]

^ well, this could be an entirely new discussion.

One can just as easily say that Kerry was simply a soldier carrying out his orders, trying to keep yet another poor country from the grasps of communism. Keep in mind also that the VC wanted any non-communist supporter dead (Vietnamese or foreigners alike) -- if someone is intent on killing me, i aint going to think twice about killing him.

[Kuchana]

Why doesn't Bush just admit why he didn't want to go to Vietnam? Outside of the familial influence, could most Americans really blame him?

Clinton definitely owned up to that. :biggrin:

These politicians are just spewing words while their actions contradict what they say often at times.

[Danny]

Bush let the ads fester for as long as he needed, then came out and gave a blanket statement, giving more creedence to the commercials, meaning peopel are going to want to see it. Kerry made a hub bub about it, making more people view it. I don't see anything wrong with the ads, just like I don't see anything wrong with the 9/11 movie. Both put each candidate into a negative light, based upon perceptions of people. One made a fat man richer, the other made a presidential candidate angry and actually made him focus on something that he really had no reason to defend.

[SunWuKong]

Bush let the ads fester for as long as he needed, then came out and gave a blanket statement, giving more creedence to the commercials, meaning peopel are going to want to see it. Kerry made a hub bub about it, making more people view it. I don't see anything wrong with the ads, just like I don't see anything wrong with the 9/11 movie. Both put each candidate into a negative light, based upon perceptions of people. One made a fat man richer, the other made a presidential candidate angry and actually made him focus on something that he really had no reason to defend.

i don't see anything wrong with those ads either, but it was a stupid move by Bush because he alienated some veterans for not criticising it right away. and for those who want to see the ad now but feel no personal offense with the ad, it won't affect how they vote anyway.

[AngryABCGirl]

At least Kerry did turn into a conscious objector and delivered this statement: http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=682 about the wrongness of the Vietnam War and definitely pays more attention to APIA issues than Bush does. I'd take that over Bush.

[SunWuKong]

At least Kerry did turn into a conscious objector and delivered this statement: http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=682 about the wrongness of the Vietnam War and definitely pays more attention to APIA issues than Bush does. I'd take that over Bush.

i'm not really voting Kerry. i'm voting not-Bush. :tongue:

[truMp]

both of them are dumb.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I don't see Kerry killing Asian people... i see him killing commies. big difference.

And this makes it somehow better? I do get sick of this "commies = evil demon spawns" and this "us against them" cold-war ideology. Communism in my opinion is a much more admirable concept/idea in comparison to capitalism (which essentially equates money and profit with God), ultimately whose fault is it that human nature in general is too wretched to make it work (e.g. we are more naturally inclined to function better in a system in which everyone seeks to serve their own interests)?

[Yeahman]

Clinton definitely owned up to that. :biggrin:
Cliton said why he didn't want to go to Vietnam?

[truMp]

Cliton said why he didn't want to go to Vietnam?

so this is where you are.

[SunWuKong]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3599216.stm

Bush lawyer quits over ads link

A lawyer for the Bush re-election team has resigned after admitting links to a veterans' group that accuses rival John Kerry of lying about his war record.

Benjamin Ginsberg advised the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth group, which ran TV advertisements questioning Mr Kerry's bravery in the Vietnam War.

The war records of President Bush and his Democrat opponent Mr Kerry have become a key issue in the campaign. This week Mr Bush called for to an end to unofficial, negative advertising.

The president praised Senator Kerry's war record, saying he had served "admirably".

'More evidence'

Mr Ginsberg told Mr Bush in a letter that he had decided to resign as his "legal representations" had become a distraction "from the critical issues at hand in this election".

He wrote to Mr Bush that he wanted to ensure "that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing".

Senator Kerry's team has accused the self-proclaimed non-partisan Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of being a front for the Republican re-election campaign.

A spokesman for the Kerry camp, Chad Clanton, said Mr Ginsberg's announcement was "another piece of the mounting evidence of the ties between the Bush campaign and this group".

The Bush team has repeatedly denied links with the group.

"There has been no co-ordination at any time," Bush campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel said.

Correspondents say Senator Kerry has made his service in Vietnam - where he earned five medals - a cornerstone of an election campaign dominated by concerns over national security, traditionally seen as a Republican strength.

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth advertisements alleged Mr Kerry exaggerated his valour in combat.

Mr Kerry's team has released a new set of ads in which the men who served under him on a naval vessel in Vietnam pay tribute to his bravery.

[onnihs]

^ remember when the entire country thought Gore won the election in 2000, but instead, Bush somehow won?

yea smells fishy like this.

[TB4000]

Swiftboat Crewman: Kerry Boat Under Fire

1 hour, 34 minutes ago


By JOSEPH B. FRAZIER, Associated Press Writer

PORTLAND, Ore. - A swiftboat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident where John Kerry (news - web sites) won a Bronze Star says not only did they come under enemy fire but also that his own boat commander, who has challenged the official account, was too distracted to notice the gunfire.





Retired Chief Petty Officer Robert E. Lambert, of Central Point, Ore., got a Bronze Star for pulling his boat commander — Lt. Larry Thurlow — out of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. Thurlow had jumped onto another swiftboat to aid sailors wounded by a mine explosion but fell off when the out-of-control boat ran aground.

Thurlow, who has been prominent among a group of veterans challenging the Democratic presidential candidate's record, has said there was no enemy fire during the incident. Lambert, however, supports the Navy account that says all five swiftboats in the task force "came under small arms and automatic weapon fire from the river banks" when the mine detonated.

"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."

The anti-Kerry group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has been running television ads challenging the Navy account of the boats being under fire. Kerry has condemned the ads as a Republican smear campaign.

A career military man, Lambert is no fan of Kerry's either. He doesn't like Kerry's post-Vietnam anti-war activity and doesn't plan to vote for him.

"I don't like the man himself," Lambert said, "but I think what happened happened, and he was there."

A March 1969 Navy report located by The Associated Press this week supports Lambert's version. The report twice mentions the incident and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.

Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his pulling Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been blown off the boat, out of the river. Rassmann, who is retired and lives in Florence, Ore., has said repeatedly that the boats were under fire, as have other witnesses. Lambert didn't see that rescue because Kerry was farther down the river and "I was busy pulling my own boat officer (Thurlow) out of the water."

Thurlow could not be reached for comment about Lambert's recollections.

But speaking for the Swift Boat Veterans group, Van Odell, who was in the task force that day, remembers it differently from Lambert.

"When they're firing, you can hear the rounds hit the boat or buzz by your head. There was none of that," he said in a telephone interview from Katy, Texas, where he lives.

On Thursday, the group released a 30-second Internet ad disputing Kerry's contention that his swiftboat crossed into Cambodia. Kerry's campaign has acknowledged that he may not have been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve of 1968, as he has previously stated, but that he does recall being on patrol along the Cambodia-Vietnam border on that date.

Lambert said the swiftboats were on their way out of the river when a mine exploded under one, PCF-3.

"When they blew the 3-boat, everyone opened up on the banks with everything they had," he said. "That was the normal procedure. When they came after you, they came after you. Somebody on shore blew that mine."

"There was always a firefight" after a mine detonation, he said.



"Kerry was out in front of us, on down the river. He had to come back up the river to get to us."

Lambert retired in 1978 as a chief petty officer with 22 years of service and three tours in Vietnam. He does not remember ever meeting Kerry.
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It just will not end, will it?

[Kris]

next thing you know, kerry was never in vietnam.