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SunWuKong
08-13-2004, 10:24 AM
found two interesting articles of opposing views of the relationship between China and Korea. the first one concentrates mostly on the controversy surrounding the disputed parentage of the ancient Korean nation of Koguryo, the second one is a rebuff of the first article, and it reviews China-Korea relations in broader terms.

(both are a bit biased in my opinion...)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FH11Ad03.html

China ups ante in ancient-kingdom feud with Korea
By David Scofield

A growing political rift with China is exactly what South Korea doesn't need right now, given that relatively unfettered access to China's markets and labor is vital to keeping the Korean economy growing. But the unresolved ethnic parentage of Koguryo, a 1,400-year-old kingdom that stretched from Inner Mongolia in the north and included most of what is today North Korea in the south, has put the two nations on a collision course, and China isn't blinking.

Both South Korea and North Korea, however, are mute and seemingly paralyzed by this latest affront and example of China's much-vaunted "peaceful rise", one that could have territorial, military and strategic implications that eventually could benefit Beijing - but not the Korean Peninsula or North Asia. The deafening silence from Seoul and usually obstreperous Pyongyang stems in large part from economic reliance on China and historical deference to Beijing at a time when North and South should be working together to counter what appear to be China's politically motivated claims.



http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/FH14Dg02.html

Another (Asian) look at China-Korea ties
By Yu Shiyu

Recent reports about Sino-Korean relations and political developments on the Korean Peninsula have often contained views that can be termed Eurocentric regarding the history of that part of Asia. For example, both the Chinese academic establishment and the South Koreans from their government on down have been criticized for having engaged in "historical revisionism", a tendency that, according to these reports, reflects some myopic visions if not something even worse on the part of the "historical revisionists". In addition, both Beijing and the entire South Korean society, including the once arch anti-communist military, have been accused of turning a blind eye to North Korea's "crimes against humanity" in their respective efforts to appease Pyongyang.

Enormous changes are indeed happening in and around the Korean Peninsula that will fundamentally alter the geopolitical balance of the region. Many of these changes are in general rather damaging to the United States' interests, hence perhaps the aforementioned alarming criticism of both China and South Korea. However, this author ventures to opine that a more Asiacentric perspective on the long history of that part of Asia, especially that of Sino-Korean relations, is called for before one addresses what are frankly mostly Eurocentric concerns quoted above.

VV o n g B a
08-13-2004, 11:05 AM
does anyone have any polling data on how koreans actually feel about this?

SunWuKong
08-13-2004, 12:18 PM
does anyone have any polling data on how koreans actually feel about this?


:biggrin:

yup one big reason why i thought they were a bit biased.

golden_buns
08-13-2004, 06:43 PM
It is hipocritical how the chinese goverment claims for recognition on the Nanjing masacre and other events that the japanese govt. is trying to cover and forget, and then they come to Korea and say that one of our 3 kingdoms was actually theirs.

So what's gonna be next, another type of Taiwan-China conflict in which Korea will have to join China, since Koguryo "was part of China"?

hooligan
08-13-2004, 06:53 PM
It is hipocritical how the chinese goverment claims for recognition on the Nanjing masacre and other events that the japanese govt. is trying to cover and forget, and then they come to Korea and say that one of our 3 kingdoms was actually theirs.

So what's gonna be next, another type of Taiwan-China conflict in which Korea will have to join China, since Koguryo "was part of China"?
I thought China couldn't conquer any of the Koreans? Well, the Korean tribes anyway? The same with them not being able to dominate the Vietnamese?

golden_buns
08-13-2004, 08:49 PM
If I'm not wrong they were able to take over Koguryo eventually, but they couldn't hold that kingdom for more 40 yrs. But that's not a good reason to claim it as theirs.

Sigh...this is just gonna flame another arms and military race in northeastern asia once again.
Japan doesn't trust China and North Korea, North Korea doesn't trust Japan and possibly China in the future. And South Korea not trusting any of its neighbors.

hooligan
08-13-2004, 09:33 PM
If I'm not wrong they were able to take over Koguryo eventually, but they couldn't hold that kingdom for more 40 yrs. But that's not a good reason to claim it as theirs.

Sigh...this is just gonna flame another arms and military race in northeastern asia once again.
Japan doesn't trust China and North Korea, North Korea doesn't trust Japan and possibly China in the future. And South Korea not trusting any of its neighbors.
Yeah, the native Americans called and they want north America back.

SunWuKong
08-14-2004, 01:55 AM
I thought China couldn't conquer any of the Koreans? Well, the Korean tribes anyway? The same with them not being able to dominate the Vietnamese?

just going from memory... China had conquered parts of northern Korean peninsula i think at least twice, once during the Han dynasty and again during the Tang dynasty. but Tang dynasty's ambition to conquer the rest of the Korean peninsula proved to be too much of a drain of resources and the campaign actually contributed to the collapse of the dynasty, and one of the Korean nations (forgot which one) managed to conquer parts of northern China. some would like to believe that it actually conquered the entire northern half of northern China, but it was the Khitan nomad tribe that did so, establishing a Jin dynasty in northern China when Han-Chinese Song dynasty was in southern China.

as for Vietnam, what is now northern Vietnam was actually conquered by Han dynasty China and Chinese control lasted for several hundred years. then Ming dynasty China also conquered it for a brief period of time.

It is hipocritical how the chinese goverment claims for recognition on the Nanjing masacre and other events that the japanese govt. is trying to cover and forget, and then they come to Korea and say that one of our 3 kingdoms was actually theirs.

well, this whole idea of claiming some sort of ownership over ancient nonexistent nations is beyond me. i mean, go ahead and claim that those kingdoms influence your civilisation and history, it doesn't even make logical sense to claim that they were part of your civilisation but nobody else's. and of all the things that the Chinese government could be spending money and resources on, this has got to be one of the stupidest things.

So what's gonna be next, another type of Taiwan-China conflict in which Korea will have to join China, since Koguryo "was part of China"?

i highly doubt it. between getting Taiwan back, lessening Dalai Lama's influence, quelling any Muslim separatist activities and violence in Xinjiang, and making sure that mess in Kashmir doesn't spill into China, the CCP has really got its hands full to militarily stir something up at the Korean border where it's relatively much more stable than the above mentioned areas.

A.R.A.M.
08-14-2004, 03:09 AM
Yi Shiyu's article doesn't even register that Koreans may have something to say about Koguryo. For Yi, this isn't a debate between China, North Korea, and South Korea; it's a debate between the U.S. and China. Anybody who may object to China's archeaological interpretations of Koguryo is simply blinded by Eurocentrism, either fretting over human rights abuses or lamenting America's fading preeminence. As an antidote to Eurocentrism, Yi proposes an "asiatic" interpretation of Sino-Korean ties. On the surface, that sounds great. But in practice, it amounts to China speaking for all of Asia in general, and in this case, for North and South Korea in particular. And for Yi, why not? Korea is really just a "mini-China" that has historically relied, no absolutely depended, on China for its survival as a state. Thus it is only natural for China to speak for North and South Korea now. In the end, whatever Yi's rationale, Korean voices remain silent in the article. But let's not cloud this issue: South Koreans are passionately interested in the disposition of Koguryo, and China needs to reckon with their ideas on this issue.

yoMAMA
08-14-2004, 11:46 AM
Well, at least we both dislike the Japanese.....

:wink:

Napoleon Chynamite
08-16-2004, 07:24 PM
Don't really have the energy or motivation to look up direct quotes or sources, but I have read from experts here and there who suspect that China's recent attempts to distort history and claim Koguryo as one of their own kingdoms stems from fear of Korea claiming portions of northeastern Chinese territory (where a large number of ethnic Koreans reside) after unification in the distant (or near?) future.