born-again asians

[kasia]

what is the difference between a white person with an asian fetish trying to learn as much about the asian culture as he can and an white-washed asian person who grew up knowing nothing about the asian culture and now trying to "rediscover" his roots? is the only difference the color of their skin?

[angel nympho]

Werd. There's nothing wrong with that. I honestly am not disgusted by white guys wanting to learn about Asian culture, as a lot of people are. I mean, people complain that non-Asians don't make any effort to learn about Asian culture before they open their mouths, but they also complain when non-Asians TRY to learn about Asian culture by calling them "asiaphiles" and whatnot.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 11:29 AM
what is the difference between a white person with an asian fetish trying to learn as much about the asian culture as he can and an white-washed asian person who grew up knowing nothing about the asian culture and now trying to "rediscover" his roots? is the only difference the color of their skin?
Theoretically, there's no difference since race is a social construct and "none of that matters."

But race does matter: how many whites do you know who want to forfeit their own racial identity to become Asian? I'd say few. In most cases, objectification is usually the end result.

[kasia]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 15 2002, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 11:29 AM
what is the difference between a white person with an asian fetish trying to learn as much about the asian culture as he can and an white-washed asian person who grew up knowing nothing about the asian culture and now trying to "rediscover" his roots?  is the only difference the color of their skin?
Theoretically, there's no difference since race is a social construct and "none of that matters."

But race does matter: how many whites do you know who want to forfeit their own racial identity to become Asian? I'd say few. In most cases, objectification is usually the end result.
so as long as they're willing to forfeit their own identity, it's okay? kinda like when white monks join buddhist temples?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 15 2002, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 11:29 AM
what is the difference between a white person with an asian fetish trying to learn as much about the asian culture as he can and an white-washed asian person who grew up knowing nothing about the asian culture and now trying to "rediscover" his roots?  is the only difference the color of their skin?
Theoretically, there's no difference since race is a social construct and "none of that matters."

But race does matter: how many whites do you know who want to forfeit their own racial identity to become Asian? I'd say few. In most cases, objectification is usually the end result.
Why is it impossible for somebody to simply be interested in cultures other than their own? If you're intrigued by the history of a culture, why shouldn't you be able to learn about it without being accused of objectifying or "selling out" to your own race?

[kasia]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 16 2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 15 2002, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 11:29 AM
what is the difference between a white person with an asian fetish trying to learn as much about the asian culture as he can and an white-washed asian person who grew up knowing nothing about the asian culture and now trying to "rediscover" his roots? is the only difference the color of their skin?
Theoretically, there's no difference since race is a social construct and "none of that matters."

But race does matter: how many whites do you know who want to forfeit their own racial identity to become Asian? I'd say few. In most cases, objectification is usually the end result.
Why is it impossible for somebody to simply be interested in cultures other than their own? If you're intrigued by the history of a culture, why shouldn't you be able to learn about it without being accused of objectifying or "selling out" to your own race?
i agree.

but actually what i was originally getting at was--why do we scorn whites like the critic who wrote the article that hello hapa posted but not white-washed asians who do the same thing?

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 04:01 PM
Why is it impossible for somebody to simply be interested in cultures other than their own? If you're intrigued by the history of a culture, why shouldn't you be able to learn about it without being accused of objectifying or "selling out" to your own race?
I didn't say it was impossible. Anything's possible. Probable? I dunno. And white people wouldn't be accused of selling out -- selling out to what? To whom?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 04:01 PM
Why is it impossible for somebody to simply be interested in cultures other than their own?  If you're intrigued by the history of a culture, why shouldn't you be able to learn about it without being accused of objectifying or "selling out" to your own race?
I didn't say it was impossible. Anything's possible. Probable? I dunno. And white people wouldn't be accused of selling out -- selling out to what? To whom?
i mean like if an asian person wants to learn about a different culture, he or she would be immediately accused of being a sell-out. it doesn't even have to be learning about different culturse.. just participating in certain activities automatically makes that person a sell-out. it's really lame.

and i dont understand why its so improbable that a white person can genuinely want to know things about other cultures without wanting to sacrifice his own ethnicity. human nature guides us all to be eager to learn everything we can... who are we to dictate who gets to learn about what without encountering some kind of obstacles.


and kasia --> i think that people generally dont scorn on asians who go search deeper to "rediscover their roots" because they are jsut that-- THEIR roots. it's admirable for somebody to want to know as much as they can about where they come from. as opposed to a white person who just wants to know for the sake of knowing.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 04:06 PM
but actually what i was originally getting at was--why do we scorn whites like the critic who wrote the article that hello hapa posted but not white-washed asians who do the same thing?
Here's one reason: because Asians have endured a history of racism in this country that whites have not.

Why the hating on white washed Asians? They (we) aren't perfect, and neither is anyone else, just at different places of self-actualization (what a lame phrase). I would agree that the zeal of recent converts comes off as self-righteous, but it's a pride that stems from having an identity that they were previously ashamed of.

[kasia]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:21 AM
I would agree that the zeal of recent converts comes off as self-righteous, but it's a pride that stems from having an identity that they were previously ashamed of.
but why would the self-righteousness attitude be directed at asians who have lived as asians their whole lives?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:21 AM
I would agree that the zeal of recent converts comes off as self-righteous, but it's a pride that stems from having an identity that they were previously ashamed of.
but why would the self-righteousness attitude be directed at asians who have lived as asians their whole lives?
who's to say that a white-washed asian HASNT been living "as an asian?" i mean.. they're still asian. just because they're white washed a little more than other asians doesn't mean they havnt had to face the same challenges.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 04:24 PM
but why would the self-righteousness attitude be directed at asians who have lived as asians their whole lives?
The same reason a former drug addict who's managed to kick his habit will feel self-righteous and look down on other addicts -- even those who've dabbled.

It's the same with recent religious converts, and why craziness and enthusiasm are often associated with "finding religion." They can't stop talking about it because they've found what they consider to be the "truth" and want everyone to do just as they're doing.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:21 AM
I would agree that the zeal of recent converts comes off as self-righteous, but it's a pride that stems from having an identity that they were previously ashamed of.
but why would the self-righteousness attitude be directed at asians who have lived as asians their whole lives?
i think it might be inherent in human nature to feel a little superior to those that you think you have more experience than. experience in life, i mean. if we both lived in the same city for our entire lives... you stayed your entire life, and i travelled around before finally coming back to the city... i'd feel like i had a little more experience in the outside world than you and i'd probably feel a little self-righteous. like.. "what do YOU know about the real world" type of self-righteous.

[deez nuts]

In my opinion a white person never experienced the social and life issues an asian person does. I'm all for the whitey's learning about our culture etc etc, but for a white person to sympathize with certain issues, I just feel they don't have the right experiences for it.

As for born again asians. I don't think there's anything wrong or different about their awakenings. Hell if one can be a born again virgin; I don't see while an asian can't be a born again asian. (Met a born again virgin last week).

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 16 2002, 12:32 AM
In my opinion a white person never experienced the social and life issues an asian person does. I'm all for the whitey's learning about our culture etc etc, but for a white person to sympathize with certain issues, I just feel they don't have the right experiences for it.

As for born again asians. I don't think there's anything wrong or different about their awakenings. Hell if one can be a born again virgin; I don't see while an asian can't be a born again asian. (Met a born again virgin last week).
i agree. but i also think that a white person should be given a fair enough chance at learning about asian culture before asians jump to the conclusion that he or she's an "asiaphile" or... like... yeah... accused of objectifying. but i hardly think a white person can really sympathize with certain issues. but it's okay if they want to hear our side of it and learn about it and TRY to find a way to relate.

[kasia]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 04:24 PM
but why would the self-righteousness attitude be directed at asians who have lived as asians their whole lives?
The same reason a former drug addict who's managed to kick his habit will feel self-righteous and look down on other addicts -- even those who've dabbled.

It's the same with recent religious converts, and why craziness and enthusiasm are often associated with "finding religion." They can't stop talking about it because they've found what they consider to be the "truth" and want everyone to do just as they're doing.
that doesn't make sense. former drug addicts may look down on present drug addicts b/c they are no longer addicted.

but born again asians are looking down on other asians. that's completely different. i dont' need someone like mari matsuda, who i do admire, telling me my grandmother is not asian-american because she is not for the progressive movement (hell, she's not even really aware of it.)

this divide was NEVER created until these born-again asians came along. and my question is--what gives them a right to create it?

it's as though this is their revenge because they have been shunned by asians for most of their lives and, as they are finally discovering their roots, they are stating that they are *more* asian?

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 04:28 PM
who's to say that a white-washed asian HASNT been living "as an asian?" i mean.. they're still asian. just because they're white washed a little more than other asians doesn't mean they havnt had to face the same challenges.
I think there's an important distinction. When I was growing up, particularly during junior high and high school, I did my best to distance myself from other Asians for my white friends. Actually I'm not sure if I did so for their sake, or for my own, since a lot of the FOBs got on my nerves for being so "uncool."

I remember distinctly the first time I began to question this, sometime between my sophomore and junior year. In my mind, I'd always thought of myself as different (better), but it wasn't until one of my friends verbalized this that I felt weird. I can't remember the context of the conversation, but he said, "Yeah, but you're not like them...you're like...(pause)...us!"

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 16 2002, 12:32 AM
In my opinion a white person never experienced the social and life issues an asian person does.  I'm all for the whitey's learning about our culture etc etc, but for a white person to sympathize with certain issues, I just feel they don't have the right experiences for it.

As for born again asians.  I don't think there's anything wrong or different about their awakenings.  Hell if one can be a born again virgin; I don't see while an asian can't be a born again asian.  (Met a born again virgin last week).
i agree. but i also think that a white person should be given a fair enough chance at learning about asian culture before asians jump to the conclusion that he or she's an "asiaphile" or... like... yeah... accused of objectifying. but i hardly think a white person can really sympathize with certain issues. but it's okay if they want to hear our side of it and learn about it and TRY to find a way to relate.
I have no problems with discussion with a non-asian about asian issues. What I do have a problem is those white people who have a degree in asian studies that come across as "I know it all" and I know your plight etc etc. Fine you have a degree in Asian studies, hey gratz, but there are some things that cannot be learned from textbooks and only from life experiences. And when you disagree with them, they pull this powertrip and say "well I have a degree in it, your asian and you don't." So hey mofukka, I have a degree in biochem, I'll find the cure for aids tomorrow.

[kasia]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 16 2002, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:21 AM
I would agree that the zeal of recent converts comes off as self-righteous, but it's a pride that stems from having an identity that they were previously ashamed of.
but why would the self-righteousness attitude be directed at asians who have lived as asians their whole lives?
who's to say that a white-washed asian HASNT been living "as an asian?" i mean.. they're still asian. just because they're white washed a little more than other asians doesn't mean they havnt had to face the same challenges.
for lack of better of a better way to classify. let's not argue semantics.

[kasia]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 16 2002, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:21 AM
I would agree that the zeal of recent converts comes off as self-righteous, but it's a pride that stems from having an identity that they were previously ashamed of.
but why would the self-righteousness attitude be directed at asians who have lived as asians their whole lives?
i think it might be inherent in human nature to feel a little superior to those that you think you have more experience than. experience in life, i mean. if we both lived in the same city for our entire lives... you stayed your entire life, and i travelled around before finally coming back to the city... i'd feel like i had a little more experience in the outside world than you and i'd probably feel a little self-righteous. like.. "what do YOU know about the real world" type of self-righteous.
but we're talking about born-again asians who are just learning our culture and history and who are telling non-white-washed asians that they don't know what it means to be asian-american because they are not angry.

take note--in their eyes--you don't know what it means to be asian either!

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 04:28 PM
who's to say that a white-washed asian HASNT been living "as an asian?"  i mean.. they're still asian.  just because they're white washed a little more than other asians doesn't mean they havnt had to face the same challenges.
I think there's an important distinction. When I was growing up, particularly during junior high and high school, I did my best to distance myself from other Asians for my white friends. Actually I'm not sure if I did so for their sake, or for my own, since a lot of the FOBs got on my nerves for being so "uncool."

I remember distinctly the first time I began to question this, sometime between my sophomore and junior year. In my mind, I'd always thought of myself as different (better), but it wasn't until one of my friends verbalized this that I felt weird. I can't remember the context of the conversation, but he said, "Yeah, but you're not like them...you're like...(pause)...us!"
Well I guess that's where different upbringings come in. I grew up... not TRYING to distance myself from the "Asian Asians," but that's just the way it happened. I just didn't have enough in common with them. I guess there were times I saw myself as being "better," but it didn't have anything to do with ethnicity or identity, really. It had more to do with attitude than anything. I saw myself as better, because, in my mind, they were just a bunch of racist weirdos.

Chasiubao_Boy --> I see what you mean. That's pretty stupid, yeah. But a lot of times there are people who ARE Asian and pull the exact same shit. How come THAT's more tolerable? Personally, I couldn't give a SHIT what race the other person was... cuz nobody can TELL me what I'm going through. ... I think what you mean has more to do with being egotistical and thinking you're better than everybody who isn't perhaps as "educated" as you are... And that kind of shit really doesn't hold bounds to color. Nobody's immune to that kind of bullshit. But I think white people who think they're more "Asian" than I am because they know more about the culture is pretty fucked up.

[kasia]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 16 2002, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 16 2002, 12:32 AM
In my opinion a white person never experienced the social and life issues an asian person does. I'm all for the whitey's learning about our culture etc etc, but for a white person to sympathize with certain issues, I just feel they don't have the right experiences for it.

As for born again asians. I don't think there's anything wrong or different about their awakenings. Hell if one can be a born again virgin; I don't see while an asian can't be a born again asian. (Met a born again virgin last week).
i agree. but i also think that a white person should be given a fair enough chance at learning about asian culture before asians jump to the conclusion that he or she's an "asiaphile" or... like... yeah... accused of objectifying. but i hardly think a white person can really sympathize with certain issues. but it's okay if they want to hear our side of it and learn about it and TRY to find a way to relate.
I have no problems with discussion with a non-asian about asian issues. What I do have a problem is those white people who have a degree in asian studies that come across as "I know it all" and I know your plight etc etc. Fine you have a degree in Asian studies, hey gratz, but there are some things that cannot be learned from textbooks and only from life experiences. And when you disagree with them, they pull this powertrip and say "well I have a degree in it, your asian and you don't." So hey mofukka, I have a degree in biochem, I'll find the cure for aids tomorrow.
YES! my point exactly. now substitute the white person for a white-washed asian who just took asa 101 and is now saying that you're not truly asian american because you don't know what year the chinese exclusionary act took place. is anyone getting my gist or am i the only one who has encountered people like this?

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 04:35 PM
that doesn't make sense.  former drug addicts may look down on present drug addicts b/c they are no longer addicted.

That's why I said, "...even those who've dabbled." Not to mean Asians who've flirted with becoming a sell-out, but any Asian not displaying the same amount of fire and brimstone and condemnation for anything un-Asian.

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 04:35 PM
this divide was NEVER created until these born-again asians came along.  and my question is--what gives them a right to create it?

it's as though this is their revenge because they have been shunned by asians for most of their lives and, as they are finally discovering their roots, they are stating that they are *more* asian?

I'm glad you pointed out the "revenge" aspect because I don't know if you can definitively say that this was "started" by them. They're usually just responding to some form of rejection. It could also be argued that other Asians shun them because they themselves have been shunned by white America.

And it goes 'round and 'round and 'round...

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 15 2002, 04:40 PM
So hey mofukka, I have a degree in biochem, I'll find the cure for aids tomorrow.
Woo hoo!!

*burns box of condoms*

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 16 2002, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:21 AM
I would agree that the zeal of recent converts comes off as self-righteous, but it's a pride that stems from having an identity that they were previously ashamed of.
but why would the self-righteousness attitude be directed at asians who have lived as asians their whole lives?
i think it might be inherent in human nature to feel a little superior to those that you think you have more experience than. experience in life, i mean. if we both lived in the same city for our entire lives... you stayed your entire life, and i travelled around before finally coming back to the city... i'd feel like i had a little more experience in the outside world than you and i'd probably feel a little self-righteous. like.. "what do YOU know about the real world" type of self-righteous.
but we're talking about born-again asians who are just learning our culture and history and who are telling non-white-washed asians that they don't know what it means to be asian-american because they are not angry.

take note--in their eyes--you don't know what it means to be asian either!
Ooohh. Maybe we were thinking different things in our heads. I was kind of thinking more along the lines of a "born-again Asian" thinking of themselves as better than the rest because they actually took the time out to learn about the culture. I didn't really consider the whole... activism thing. I guess, then, you would be right about that.

And yeah, I agree with the rest of you that knowing exactly what happened in our history doesn't really change the fact that your opinions about the "plight of the Asian-American" matter as well. That's always kind of been my beef with the "stereotypical activist." It's like... get your head out of the books and just fix what you really know. If you want to make changes and study all that crap, then great, way to go. Don't call me a sell-out because I don't know about shit I never really cared about anyway.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 07:45 PM

I think what you mean has more to do with being egotistical and thinking you're better than everybody who isn't perhaps as "educated" as you are... And that kind of shit really doesn't hold bounds to color. Nobody's immune to that kind of bullshit. But I think white people who think they're more "Asian" than I am because they know more about the culture is pretty fucked up.
Point well taken, angel about how arrogance and intellectual snobbiness knows no racial boundaries.

But lemme say this, if I had a black history degree, I would not downplay a black person's life experiences.

And please call me bunboy or CSB or doc. Sheessh talk about identity crises.

[kasia]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 04:35 PM
that doesn't make sense. former drug addicts may look down on present drug addicts b/c they are no longer addicted.

That's why I said, "...even those who've dabbled." Not to mean Asians who've flirted with becoming a sell-out, but any Asian not displaying the same amount of fire and brimstone and condemnation for anything un-Asian.

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 04:35 PM
this divide was NEVER created until these born-again asians came along. and my question is--what gives them a right to create it?

it's as though this is their revenge because they have been shunned by asians for most of their lives and, as they are finally discovering their roots, they are stating that they are *more* asian?

I'm glad you pointed out the "revenge" aspect because I don't know if you can definitively say that this was "started" by them. They're usually just responding to some form of rejection. It could also be argued that other Asians shun them because they themselves have been shunned by white America.

And it goes 'round and 'round and 'round...
well, revenge is not necessarily their motive.

since you brought up yourself as an example...you grew up as a white-washed asian because you chose to disassociate yourself from the uncool asians. as you grew older, though, you learned more about the korean culture and even moved to k-town. still, if you ever try to assert to a fobby korean that you know more about what it means to be korean than he does, he will resent you. or think you're whack.



<!--EDIT|kasia|Sep 16 2002, 12:57 AM-->

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 04:46 PM
is anyone getting my gist or am i the only one who has encountered people like this?
Sure, I understand you. Just have patience with 'em. They'll usually grow out of it.

Hating and putting other people down usually stems from either not being too crazy about yourself and not putting yourself in other people's shoes, or both. In the case of born again Asians, it's a weird variation, since self-hate has turned to pride.

Why aZiAn PrYdE start -- or Black Power or Chicanos, for that matter?

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 15 2002, 04:53 PM
But lemme say this, if I had a black history degree, I would not downplay a black person's life experiences.
I think this is what it's all about: are you using that knowledge or experience or understanding for good or evil...to categorize and stuff other people into a little box or to appreciate their issues/struggles but still having the humility to say, "Hey, it's an Asian thang, I wouldn't understand."

[kasia]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 12:56 AM
In the case of born again Asians, it's a weird variation, since self-hate has turned to pride.

Why aZiAn PrYdE start -- or Black Power or Chicanos, for that matter?
their self-hate has turned to arrogance. these activists that claim asian pride, btw, are the same ones who typically put down the kiddies who TyPE LiKe DiS.

to them, being asian-american and having pride in being asian is something defined very narrowly.

if you're saying i'm hating, perhaps i am, but it's hating on arrogance.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 16 2002, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 07:45 PM

I think what you mean has more to do with being egotistical and thinking you're better than everybody who isn't perhaps as "educated" as you are... And that kind of shit really doesn't hold bounds to color. &nbsp;Nobody's immune to that kind of bullshit. &nbsp;But I think white people who think they're more "Asian" than I am because they know more about the culture is pretty fucked up.
Point well taken, angel about how arrogance and intellectual snobbiness knows no racial boundaries.

But lemme say this, if I had a black history degree, I would not downplay a black person's life experiences.

And please call me bunboy or CSB or doc. Sheessh talk about identity crises.
Glad we agree. And I totally am with you. If I had a black history degree, I'd KILL myself before declaring my excess blackness towards African-Americans. I'm just not that stupid. Knowing what happened in their history does not mean I have to suffer the backlash.

And werd to achtungbaby. Maybe those "aZyN pRyDe" folks were just looking for something powerful that they could start... to get back at white society for counting them out. Perhaps they wanted to be a part of something that white people could be excluded from.

Maybe I'm just selfish? I want to be a part of *every* world. LOL...

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 01:00 AM
to them, being asian-american and having pride in being asian is something defined very narrowly.

What do you mean, "very narrowly"? ...I'm asian-american, and I have pride in that... I don't really see what aspect of "asian-american" I'm missing to not be a part of the asian community.

Don't worry, I'm not hating on you or trying to argue. I'm just... confused. =x

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 04:54 PM
still, if you ever try to assert to a fobby korean that you know more about what it means to be korean than he does, he will resent you. or think you're whack.
I'm whack anyway.

I do think, however, that's it's reasonable to criticize the imperative to assimilate, be an American, and be accepted by whites -- which is the idea a lot of my parent's generation had. It's why my brother and sister and I were never taught to speak Korean at home because our parents didn't want us to sound too Korean. Do I resent them for this? Maybe for a moment, during whatever Asian conversion process I experienced, but it's all good. They were doing what they thought was right at the time -- just like born again Asians, however misguided their zeal might be.

[kasia]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 16 2002, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 01:00 AM
to them, being asian-american and having pride in being asian is something defined very narrowly.

What do you mean, "very narrowly"? ...I'm asian-american, and I have pride in that... I don't really see what aspect of "asian-american" I'm missing to not be a part of the asian community.

Don't worry, I'm not hating on you or trying to argue. I'm just... confused. =x
you have to be in some way or form furthering the asian american progressive movement in order to be considered a true asian american

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 16 2002, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 16 2002, 01:00 AM
to them, being asian-american and having pride in being asian is something defined very narrowly.

What do you mean, "very narrowly"? ...I'm asian-american, and I have pride in that... I don't really see what aspect of "asian-american" I'm missing to not be a part of the asian community.

Don't worry, I'm not hating on you or trying to argue. I'm just... confused. =x
you have to be in some way or form furthering the asian american progressive movement in order to be considered a true asian american
So I'm guessing these people don't consider being an active part of American society and a fully functional member of the population of the United States of America as furthering the cause?

... What I mean is... does being an active citizen and trying to get my opinions heard (even if they might not agree with these opinions) count as furthering the asian american movement? Do I really have to condemn the white man to be a REAL Asian American?



[EDIT: and if im NOT a real asian american... what the hell am i?!?]



<!--EDIT|angel nympho|Sep 16 2002, 01:12 AM-->

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 15 2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 16 2002, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 16 2002, 12:32 AM
In my opinion a white person never experienced the social and life issues an asian person does. I'm all for the whitey's learning about our culture etc etc, but for a white person to sympathize with certain issues, I just feel they don't have the right experiences for it.

As for born again asians. I don't think there's anything wrong or different about their awakenings. Hell if one can be a born again virgin; I don't see while an asian can't be a born again asian. (Met a born again virgin last week).
i agree. but i also think that a white person should be given a fair enough chance at learning about asian culture before asians jump to the conclusion that he or she's an "asiaphile" or... like... yeah... accused of objectifying. but i hardly think a white person can really sympathize with certain issues. but it's okay if they want to hear our side of it and learn about it and TRY to find a way to relate.
I have no problems with discussion with a non-asian about asian issues. What I do have a problem is those white people who have a degree in asian studies that come across as "I know it all" and I know your plight etc etc. Fine you have a degree in Asian studies, hey gratz, but there are some things that cannot be learned from textbooks and only from life experiences. And when you disagree with them, they pull this powertrip and say "well I have a degree in it, your asian and you don't." So hey mofukka, I have a degree in biochem, I'll find the cure for aids tomorrow.
YES! my point exactly. now substitute the white person for a white-washed asian who just took asa 101 and is now saying that you're not truly asian american because you don't know what year the chinese exclusionary act took place. is anyone getting my gist or am i the only one who has encountered people like this?
Yes but kasia. That white washed asian probably still faced some degree of racism one way or the other (being called chink etc etc). Maybe that white washed asian knows what it is liked to grow up in an asian household with "asian" expectations placed upon him or her.

A non-asian will not encounter this. Lol when's the last time a white guy was called chink, you know?

If you're gonna set boundaries for degrees of asian-ness, I just don't believe in it. It's not like we need more racial and ethnic divisions amongst ourselves. <-----cheesy but true, in my opinion.

And AB: haha nice comment you slipped in there.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 05:02 PM
And werd to achtungbaby. Maybe those "aZyN pRyDe" folks were just looking for something powerful that they could start... to get back at white society for counting them out. Perhaps they wanted to be a part of something that white people could be excluded from.
For someone who was born and raised in So Cal (so long ago), I can definitely say that the Asian community has transformed. Not to sound like one of those old geezers, but back in my day, the idea or notion of Asian Pride was non-existant, and I'm not exaggerating. By the time I was in my early twenties, I started seeing a lot more teenagers carry more of a swagger and use the term. It's one small era that I don't completely identify with, just as many of them probably wonder why my older friends in their thirties dated so many white guys in high school.

And I think the community will continue to progress and grow and become more self-assured in its own identity as time goes on. Our conceptions of equality or self-worth won't always have to be measured against whites, but more towards how we ourselves define it. Consequently...whites won't really matter that much anymore...

yellowworld, baby:)

[kasia]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 16 2002, 01:12 AM
If you're gonna set boundaries for degrees of asian-ness, I just don't believe in it. It's not like we need more racial and ethnic divisions amongst ourselves. <-----cheesy but true, in my opinion.

perhaps i haven't been making my points clear. i have been trying to speak out *against* the acts of some that have tried to "set boundaries for degrees of asianness". hence, my argument that asianness should not be so narrowly defined.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 05:11 PM
[EDIT: and if im NOT a real asian american... what the hell am i?!?]
You are a Yellowworld Senator, ready to bloom into something even greater.

[kimpossible]

Born Again Asian... that term sounds hauntingly familiar

Coincidence or...

:huh:



<!--EDIT|Hello_Hapa|Sep 15 2002, 08:02 PM-->

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 16 2002, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 15 2002, 05:11 PM
[EDIT: &nbsp;and if im NOT a real asian american... what the hell am i?!?]
You are a Yellowworld Senator, ready to bloom into something even greater.
*Grin*

Damn straight! Born again Asian status here I come! Puhh.. no thanks.

[mrazntre]

i agree witih AB on the transformation of the notion of being asian, or as we have seen it called, "aZYn PRyDe." As for me, since I'm not as old as AB (hehe), I saw the upcoming of this new sense of Asian pride during my high school years. But then again I could be mistaken because of the fact that my jr high school had almost no asians enrolled. Perhaps the high school nexus brought out the asian groups from the jr. high's that did have a good sized asian population.

ANYHOW...

I only first learned that there was such a thing as an asian gang during my first years in high school. Up to that point, I only knew of cholos and cholas. It was also surprising to see that other asians were heeding the call of hip hop culture. I used to remember making fun of the asians at my school because most of them wore size 50 dockers and a polo shirt, had the same fade with the long bangs and wore sandals. At that time I think I was wearing flannels, dickies, and a whole lotta ironed white shirts. If you're in the know, you got a big smile on your face, if you don't, don't sweat it.

I suppose I could be termed as a born-again asian, however the difference is that i was never white-washed. i was something else. i still identified with minorities.

side note:
the term "whack"

We were using that word way back in the day... way way back. nowadays, I have seen the perversion of the word "whack" in the mainstream. I hate how the mainstream always perverses things and takes it on as its own and even giving credit to themselves without one mention to the source of inspiration. It's more ironic to see that the same things that were once criticized by the mainstream, have become part of the mainstream. Here's the example...the word in question has been transformed by the whites as "whacked" i.e. "you are being totally whacked" this annoys me. extremely.

talk about going on a tangent.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by mrazntre@Sep 16 2002, 04:46 AM
I hate how the mainstream always perverses things and takes it on as its own and even giving credit to themselves without one mention to the source of inspiration. It's more ironic to see that the same things that were once criticized by the mainstream, have become part of the mainstream.
But then again... I don't want to have to point out the origins of every word that comes out of my mouth. I mean, a lot of words have Latin roots... do we make a note of this every time we speak? Every time you use a slang word, do you want to have to say, "by the way... this word originated blahblahblahblahblah..."?


And you're right about the criticism by mainstream issue. Why did raves suddenly become so popular??? People used to think ravers were losers!!! Now everybody wants to go! I really don't like how everything I enjoy has suddenly become totally mainstream... it makes ME look like less of an idividual. *Sobbing*

[kimpossible]

full article (http://www.explode.com/rr/accidental.shtml)

Asian Identity: To Be Or Not To Be

By HARRY MOK
Blast San Francisco Bureau

The Newsweek headline catches my eye: "Asian Identity Crisis, A young Asian American author defends his assimilation -- and draws fire from activists." Eric Liu's new book is something I will have to read, although I am not sure how much of it I will like.

In "The Accidental Asian: Notes from a Native Speaker," Liu takes readers on a journey through his life in a series of loosely connected essays. They run from remembrances about his youth and his late father, to explaining why he married a white woman, to his unabashed assimilation into the white world.

"He seems to have a naïve belief that race doesn't matter."
The Newsweek story already made me apprehensive about the book. Then, in the first few essays Liu talks about his "honorary white status." I cringe. He seems to have a naïve belief that race doesn't matter. But I read on.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 15 2002, 10:40 PM
Born Again Asian... that term sounds hauntingly familiar

Coincidence or...

:huh:
eh?

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 16 2002, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 15 2002, 10:40 PM
Born Again Asian... that term sounds hauntingly familiar

Coincidence or...

:huh:
eh?
Nothing. It was coincidental that I had been talking to someone about this very subject with this very term. I cleared it up. Turned out to be hubris on my part.

:)

[thaite]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 16 2002, 09:27 AM
full article (http://www.explode.com/rr/accidental.shtml)

Asian Identity: To Be Or Not To Be

By HARRY MOK
Blast San Francisco Bureau
Hey! Rock on. Harry's a friend of mine.

http://www.earboards.com/images/smilies/new/devilfinger.gif



<!--EDIT|buoywonder|Sep 16 2002, 01:50 PM-->

[tapestrybabe]

Dang it... i feel when it comes to being Asian, Asian American... there's a whole WIDE SPECTRUM of where we all come from. It's DIVERSE. There are those Asian Americans who know how to speak fluently in their own language... those who are really into their culture, know about its history, are activists in the Asian American community. And than there are those Asian Americans... who know nothing about their own culure, their language.... and they may not even care to learn.... and whom may not be so aware of Asian American issues that effect them.... And yeah, there are those Asian Americans that grow up to be white washed and then eventually try to rediscover their roots. And yes, IT IS DIFFERENT when a white washed Asian tries to learn more about their own culture as opposed to a white person... cuz thats just it.. their learning about their own roots... as opposed to just a white person who just wants to learn. But that DOESN'T make a white person or anyone else an Asianphile or whatever... theres no reason to look down upon others just because they want to learn a different culture.

But this is how i feel... i dont want someone preaching to me... wtf do i know about being Asian... just because someone else may know more about its culture, history, its politics... are activists in AA issues, grew up in an asian family, and what not... And a so called 'born again asian' whose taken an interest in learning more about my culture... i in return-- am not gonna preach to anyone wtf do you know about being asian either, for those who take no interest in it at all... cuz no matter where you lay on the spectrum of being Asian American... i dont think one is more Asian than the other.... The degree of being Asian, Asian American... shouldnt be viewed as so narrow... cuz there's a whole WIDE SPECTRUM of where we all come from....



<!--EDIT|tapestrybabe|Sep 16 2002, 08:12 PM-->

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Sep 16 2002, 11:33 PM
There are those Asian Americans who know how to speak fluently in their own language...
Hmmm..."their own language"... Isn't any language that one speaks fluently one's "own language"? If you are born in the U.S., raised in the U.S., and grow up speaking primarily English, isn't English "your own language" regardless of your ethnic background?


Hehe...I'm just being anal... :lol:

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Sep 16 2002, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Sep 16 2002, 11:33 PM
There are those Asian Americans who know how to speak fluently in their own language...
Hmmm..."their own language"... Isn't any language that one speaks fluently one's "own language"? If you are born in the U.S., raised in the U.S., and grow up speaking primarily English, isn't English "your own language" regardless of your ethnic background?


Hehe...I'm just being anal... :lol:
Ok, bad wording on my part... but you KNOW what i was trying to origionally say..... just because i cant speak, write or read in Korean... that doesnt make me less Asian....

[mrazntre]

angel nympho Posted on Sep 16 2002, 05:08 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE (mrazntre @ Sep 16 2002, 04:46 AM)
I hate how the mainstream always perverses things and takes it on as its own and even giving credit to themselves without one mention to the source of inspiration. It's more ironic to see that the same things that were once criticized by the mainstream, have become part of the mainstream.

But then again... I don't want to have to point out the origins of every word that comes out of my mouth. I mean, a lot of words have Latin roots... do we make a note of this every time we speak? Every time you use a slang word, do you want to have to say, "by the way... this word originated blahblahblahblahblah..."?


And you're right about the criticism by mainstream issue. Why did raves suddenly become so popular??? People used to think ravers were losers!!! Now everybody wants to go! I really don't like how everything I enjoy has suddenly become totally mainstream... it makes ME look like less of an idividual. *Sobbing*

regarding the origination of words.
i was mainly trying to point out the irony of not where the word or concept originated from, but that the ownership of the concept has been taken on by the mainstream, where at one time it was looked down upon. i understand that it is impossible to always give credit where it's due, but i couldn't figure out how to word it. I guess I began to ramble and not make any sense. that's what happens when you graduate from college, no grades = no care ! *looks good to me*

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by mrazntre@Sep 17 2002, 01:33 AM
angel nympho Posted on Sep 16 2002, 05:08 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE (mrazntre @ Sep 16 2002, 04:46 AM)
I hate how the mainstream always perverses things and takes it on as its own and even giving credit to themselves without one mention to the source of inspiration. It's more ironic to see that the same things that were once criticized by the mainstream, have become part of the mainstream.

But then again... I don't want to have to point out the origins of every word that comes out of my mouth. I mean, a lot of words have Latin roots... do we make a note of this every time we speak? Every time you use a slang word, do you want to have to say, "by the way... this word originated blahblahblahblahblah..."?


And you're right about the criticism by mainstream issue. Why did raves suddenly become so popular??? People used to think ravers were losers!!! Now everybody wants to go! I really don't like how everything I enjoy has suddenly become totally mainstream... it makes ME look like less of an idividual. *Sobbing*

regarding the origination of words.
i was mainly trying to point out the irony of not where the word or concept originated from, but that the ownership of the concept has been taken on by the mainstream, where at one time it was looked down upon. i understand that it is impossible to always give credit where it's due, but i couldn't figure out how to word it. I guess I began to ramble and not make any sense. that's what happens when you graduate from college, no grades = no care ! *looks good to me*
Werd, I sort of see what your saying. The only word that comes to mind, though, is the word "nigger." It used to be *owned* by whites, but now the black community has taken over ownership of it. anybody else uses it, they die. LOL.

[kasia]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Sep 16 2002, 11:33 PM
But this is how i feel... i dont want someone preaching to me... wtf do i know about being Asian... just because someone else may know more about its culture, history, its politics... are activists in AA issues, grew up in an asian family, and what not... And a so called 'born again asian' whose taken an interest in learning more about my culture... i in return-- am not gonna preach to anyone wtf do you know about being asian either, for those who take no interest in it at all... cuz no matter where you lay on the spectrum of being Asian American... i dont think one is more Asian than the other.... The degree of being Asian, Asian American... shouldnt be viewed as so narrow... cuz there's a whole WIDE SPECTRUM of where we all come from....
this is what i was trying to say.

[mrazntre]

yup, it goes both ways.