N. Korean internment camps

[Ayers]

This has got to be some of the sickest descriptions of human rights violations I have ever read/heard about. I have no idea why it's not publicized more... probably because nobody wants to admit it's happening. This is not for the faint of heart. And the article is filled with typos. I have no way of verifying it's validity so take it with a grain of salt.

Chosun Monthly Article on N. Korean concentration camps (http://monthly.chosun.com/html/200201/200201280001_1.html)

** Spoilers/graphic descriptions below... highlight for better viewing**




¡°When you throw people into boiling water in a big pot, they thrash about terribly for a while but grow quiet within five minutes."

¡°When you sever a human's wrist or heel with a knife, white tendons appear. You can pull these out with pliers, dry them, and use them to make a swagger stick of exceptional toughness."

-The MSS torturers slit her stomach open, tore out the fetus and stomped it to death, forced an iron lever into her vagina, and applied highvoltage electricity to the lever. Yi thrashed and turned red before virtually burning to death.

¡°I heard Hitler in World War ¥± slept in a bed made out of living people. That's supposed to be the best possible way to get a really sound, refreshing night's sleep. The third Bureau sadists mimic Hitler by sleeping in beds made of people. You tie inmates' legs, arms, and necks and spread blankets over them, and it makes the best possible bed.




<!--EDIT|Ayers|Sep 12 2002, 06:31 PM-->

[Ayers]

Maybe I didn't make the title of this post sensational enough, but did anyone read it? No comments?

<bump>

[kimpossible]

christ, there goes my dinner. dude, I think everyone is just sickened beyond words. what the hell can I say to something this heinous?

except, can I do anything more than just posting on a website about it? I don't know. If you have other sources or can read about it I think this is at the very least YW article material.



<!--EDIT|Hello_Hapa|Sep 12 2002, 06:52 PM-->

[angel nympho]

That was fucking disgusting!!! Make it go away....

[Ayers]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 12 2002, 06:49 PM
christ, there goes my dinner. dude, I think everyone is just sickened beyond words. what the hell can I say to something this heinous?

except, can I do anything more than just posting on a website about it? I don't know. If you have other sources or can read about it I think this is at the very least YW article material.
I guess it's been known for some time, but obtaining proof has been difficult. I'll start posting some of the sites I find about these N. Korean camps.

I'm sorry about the graphic nature of many of these accounts -- they are not for people with weak stomachs or even most normal people. However they seem to be true accounts from people who have defected.

I don't know if pressure from human rights groups has closed down any of these 'education centers,' but I believe that international scrutiny will help close 'em (see quote below). Maybe we can start by spreading the word to people we know. Don't forward the first link to your friends if you think that's over-the-top, but let them know about some of the sick stuff that happens in that country.

Human Rights Without Frontiers (http://www.hrwf.net/newhrwf/html/north_korea___political_prison.html)
One thing that the former political prisoners and prison camp guards passionately agree on is the urgent need for international attention. The North Korean regime fears exposure of the crimes against humanity that are systematically committed in its political prisons and concentration camps. At first blink, this may seem strange for a totalitarian regime seemingly oblivious to international opinion. But every similar system in this century from Stalin and the Nazis to Mao and the Khmer Rouge has been obsessed with masking its crimes from the world's view. Every regime craves international legitimacy of some sort. And even in the minds of the world's most savage torturers and mass murderers, there still lurks some knowledge of global norms and even, perhaps, some faint awareness of good and evil.

Another account of the camps (http://www.nknet.org/enknet/data/archive2.htm)
Although I well understood my mother's meaning and the sincerity of her wish, I could not bear to leave her behind so frail and aged. A few days later, however, I made up mind about escaping and asked her:
"Mother, how would you live without me?" From my question she seemed to have read my determination and answered: "If you think of the trivial things, you will never become a big man. Just think of how wonderful it would be if you could only go to South Korea. Your uncle went south during the war and some of your father's friends must still be there, too." With these words and a long sigh she tried to encourage me.

2) The North Korean government does not acknowledge the existence of its political prison camps, and no establishment bears that title. The euphemistic name that is used is kyohwaso, which implies an educational center. (Translator's note)

3) Opbashi is a North Korean term for a breed of wild bee that lives in the mountains. It has a sting of potent poison, thus the word is used as a derogative term for people who are cruel and heartless. (Translators note)

* This was translated from Mr. Yong KIMs testimonial draft for presentation at the Annual General Assembly of Citizens Alliance to Help Political Prisoners in North Korea” on February 24, 2000.

[deez nuts]

Yeah I read it, when you first posted it. I didn't know what to type or say, ayers.

I don't understand how another human being can treat another human being in that manner. All other feelings I can't put into words.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 13 2002, 12:00 PM-->

[Reinhard H.]

Here is another shocking report, the drawings add some graphic quality to the accounts of Mrs. Lee, recommended reading, but not for the fainthearted:

http://www.house.gov/international_relatio...ons/lee0502.htm (http://www.house.gov/international_relations/lee0502.htm)

[wylin]

long article pretty hard core stuff. seems heavy handed the witness did not personally see all of what he described but im sure the human rights abuses happen as does the rampant sexual encounters and corruption.

[Reinhard H.]

Here some excerpts:

"Some eighty to ninety prisoners sleep in a flea-infested chamber about six meters long by five meters wide (about 19 feet by 16 feet). Some eighty percent of the prisoners are housewives. The prison chamber is so congested that sleeping there is itself a torture. Prisoners sleep on the floor, squeezed together, head and feet alternating. So, prisoners sleep with the stinking feet of other prisoners right under their nose. They roll up their clothes for pillows."

"The prisoner on toilet duty must stay inside the toilet for 17-18 hours a day. They are normally old and crippled women who are not fit to work. They look horrible with faces swollen and yellow from the stench. Some prisoners prefer the job because of the guarantee of a full ration meal, but they normally die within a year."

"One rainy day in 1991, a housewife from Pyongyang name Ok-tan Lee had been carrying dung all day long and was ready to transfer the dung to the huge pool. However, the lid of the tank on the wheel somehow got stuck and would not open. When she climbed on the tank to push the door open, she slipped from the rain-wet surface and plunged into the ground dung pool. It was so deep that she disappeared into the dung. A guard some distance away (they always keep their distance because of the stink from the prisoners) shouted, "Stop it! Let her die there unless you want to die the same way yourself!" She was left to drown there in the dung."

"The prison rubber factory was one of the most dangerous and difficult places for women to work. They had to mix used rubber scraps with granular rubber, carry the resulting rubber substance, mix it with rubber glue that came from a big tank which produced poisonous fumes, and knead it in a big round tank. I remember one female prisoner whose head got covered by the rubber glue while she was cleaning the tall rubber glue tank. She suffocated. "

"The other pregnant women looked so pale from the pain, and they had sweat on their faces. If they groanned from the pain, the doctor mercilessly kicked their belly hard and shouted, "Shut up! Don't feign pain!" I was waiting for my supervisor to take charge of me from the doctor at the corridor outside. I heard the crying voice of Byung-Ok Kim, 32 years old, and peeped into the room through the half-open door. She had just delivered a baby and cried, "Sir, please save the baby. My parents-in-law are anxiously waiting for the baby. Please, please save the baby." She was out of her mind with sorrow. All the other women remained quiet and she was the only woman crying and begging loudly. The doctor was taken momentarily by surprise. But soon, he regained himself and shouted, "You want to die, eh? Kill the baby!" He kicked her hard. Then, the Chief Medical Officer came in and said, "Who was it yelling like that? Put her in the punishment cell!" The Chief Medical Officer kicked her hard several times and had her dragged to the punishment cell because she could not hold herself up. This is one of the scenes that I will never forget. She died shortly after she was released from the cell."

"There is also a temperature-regulated compression chamber used for torturing or killing. The chamber is 60 square centimeters and the height is adjustable according to the prisoner's height. A prisoner is pushed into a rice straw bag first, and then into the chamber with his head pushed down between his knees. These acts usually occur between one and two o'clock in the morning. Freezing temperatures are used in the winter and hot temperatures in the summer."

[kimpossible]

Okay, it's friggin ill... I just about chucked my dinner after reading Ayers post the first time around. I've admitted it's about the most horrible situation I can imagine, but without the rant it's turning into a gross-out fest.

Is someone going to rant about this?

[angel nympho]

Do you think it's actually true? Or is this guy just trying to sensationalize the events so that it looks worse to the rest of the world? I mean, if he knows that it's not true and he's saying it anyway, he could totally get off the hook by saying "oh, I never really saw all this stuff... just heard stories."

I mean.. I've heard stories of the boogieman in my closet...

[ren28]

Sounds like another rape of Nanking only it was going on behind closed doors.

[wylin]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 17 2002, 05:05 PM
Do you think it's actually true? Or is this guy just trying to sensationalize the events so that it looks worse to the rest of the world? I mean, if he knows that it's not true and he's saying it anyway, he could totally get off the hook by saying "oh, I never really saw all this stuff... just heard stories."

I mean.. I've heard stories of the boogieman in my closet...
my thoughts exactly because the guards story seems more sensationalized then the womans also anyone notice that the guard story wasnt very gramtically correct.

i think its just human rights activist/ south korean peoples propaganda and they just exagerated the story into sum ne0-nazi internment camp spiel.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by wylin@Sep 18 2002, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 17 2002, 05:05 PM
Do you think it's actually true? &nbsp;Or is this guy just trying to sensationalize the events so that it looks worse to the rest of the world? &nbsp;I mean, if he knows that it's not true and he's saying it anyway, he could totally get off the hook by saying "oh, I never really saw all this stuff... just heard stories."

I mean.. I've heard stories of the boogieman in my closet...
my thoughts exactly because the guards story seems more sensationalized then the womans also anyone notice that the guard story wasnt very gramtically correct.

i think its just human rights activist/ south korean peoples propaganda and they just exagerated the story into sum ne0-nazi internment camp spiel.
Werd. I was thinkin' it just might be propaganda. I mean, how kind-hearted is this guy who's telling this story, when he abandoned his family in North Korea. Because he left, they're all going into those same prison camps he's talking about. If he thought they were so horrible, why would he allow that to happen?

[wylin]

tru that hez just has sum kinda agenda of his own, and u know his mom and relatives are being treated like shit but not as bad as he described or maybe his families are one of those that escaped into china.

NK definitely gots some problems but i think those camps are pretty typical they sound bout the same as the ones in nazi germany or stalinist soviet union pre and post WW2.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 18 2002, 05:41 PM
I mean, how kind-hearted is this guy who's telling this story, when he abandoned his family in North Korea. Because he left, they're all going into those same prison camps he's talking about. If he thought they were so horrible, why would he allow that to happen?
communism and especially Stalinism isn't exactly a system noted for its promotion of close family ties. The idea is turn everyone into an informant against each other. Including fathers vs. sons if necessary. N. Korea practices internment of family members of political dissenters to a greater extent than the USSR under Stalin, and I'm not too clear on the details of their system, but in 40s USSR one big incentive to report on your family members to the state was to avoid sharing in their punishment for being enemies of the proletariat. People raised in this environment tend to look out for themselves first.

[Danny]

the actual stories will not open for me here at work... but after reading the excerpts I am kinda glad they didn't... holy shit... I fell ill... mommy... make the stories go away....

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Sep 18 2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 18 2002, 05:41 PM
I mean, how kind-hearted is this guy who's telling this story, when he abandoned his family in North Korea. &nbsp;Because he left, they're all going into those same prison camps he's talking about. &nbsp;If he thought they were so horrible, why would he allow that to happen?
communism and especially Stalinism isn't exactly a system noted for its promotion of close family ties. The idea is turn everyone into an informant against each other. Including fathers vs. sons if necessary. N. Korea practices internment of family members of political dissenters to a greater extent than the USSR under Stalin, and I'm not too clear on the details of their system, but in 40s USSR one big incentive to report on your family members to the state was to avoid sharing in their punishment for being enemies of the proletariat. People raised in this environment tend to look out for themselves first.
That may be true, but if it wasn't a societal virtue to love and respect your family, would you just say "ok, fuck them." I mean, I've seen on TV a bunch of times where families from North Korea escaped into China... families in tow. Or I've seen them all bawling because they want their families back. This guy doesn't really even seem to mention it. Seems a little *too* concerned with all the gory details.