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View Full Version : Does anyone have any idea on what dark matter is?


Shogun Empress
06-01-2004, 07:42 AM
I hate to sound nerdy but after reading this quote in the news, I've realized we still have a long way to go in understanding Science.

"It's the equivalent of us not knowing what water is," as Livio puts it, "even though it covers 70 percent of the Earth." (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=96&ncid=96&e=1&u=/space/20040531/sc_space/darkenergytiedtohumanorigins)

Dark Energy Tied to Human Origins

Mon May 31, 1:10 PM ET


By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer, SPACE.com

Among the most elusive and important questions in science are whether we're alone and what the heck that strange stuff is that's pushing the universe apart. Neither is likely to be answered anytime soon, yet each occupies many great minds and together they drive billions of dollars in research spending every year.

Now wouldn't it be really weird if these two seemingly unrelated questions were intimately linked? Strange but possibly true, says Mario Livio, a theorist at the Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI).

Astronomers have known since the 1920s that the universe is expanding. In 1998 they were astounded to learn that it is expanding at an ever-increasing pace. The universe is accelerating, in other words.

Nobody has a clue what's up, so smart minds invoke a thing dubbed dark energy to explain why gravity appears to have turned into a repulsive force. They say this dark energy makes up 73 to 75 percent of the mass-energy budget of the cosmos.

"It's the equivalent of us not knowing what water is," as Livio puts it, "even though it covers 70 percent of the Earth."

Fundamentally accidental

One of astronomers' first tasks in this investigation is to determine whether dark energy's repulsive strength changes over time or not. They're working on it. By using the Hubble Space Telescope (news - web sites) to discover distant exploding stars whose light is stretched during travel through time and space, researchers can see what the rate of expansion was when the light left each object.

If dark energy's repulsive force decreases in strength with time, the universe might eventually reverse course and collapse. If dark energy gets stronger, things could get way out of hand in the other direction, with all matter -- stars, planets, living things and atoms -- being shredded in a Big Rip.

Preliminary results show things accelerating at a manageable pace for billions of years to come.

Meanwhile, scientists are pretty sure that, whatever it is, dark energy does indeed makes up 73 percent of everything. It's tempting to call that a fundamental quantity of Nature. Livio resists that temptation.

"The values of some constants of Nature may not be fundamental, but rather accidental," he told a group of reporters who gathered at the STScI in Baltimore earlier this month to hear what projects Hubble would work on during its final years.

Livio cites the 17th Century astronomer and mathematician Johannes Kepler, who wrote an entire book to explain the fundamental reasons why there were six planets at certain distances from each other. The math was fine for its time, and Kepler can be forgiven for not knowing about the other planets yet, but it was the whole premise that was wrong.

"He misunderstood the fact that the number of planets and the sizes of their orbits were not fundamental quantities," Livio explained. "They were accidental values for the conditions that happen to be in the disk around the Sun."

Other planets around other stars, we know now, have wildly different setups.

The kicker

What's that got to do with dark energy?

"It is very possible, though we don't know, that the very peculiar value -- 73 percent or whatever it is -- of the dark energy is in fact not a fundamental quantity," Livio said. "In order for this to happen, you must have many universes."

And, Livio and other cosmologists argue, current theories for how our universe began allow for an infinite number of what he calls "pocket universes," of which we are just one.

"The values of some things like the dark energy could be different in different pocket universes," Livio maintains. "But not all of them would allow life. If the value of dark energy in our universe were more than 10 times larger than it is, galaxies would never have formed, and we wouldn't be here to talk about it."

This article is part of SPACE.com's weekly Mystery Monday series.

Banana
06-01-2004, 09:53 AM
It's matter that's dark. Duh.

;)

VV o n g B a
06-01-2004, 10:04 AM
from my very limited knowledge of cosmology, dark matter is different from dark energy which is mentioned in the article.

dark matter is matter that can't be seen w/ current methods. the only reason scientists propose that it exists is that galaxies seem to be missing something close to 90% of the mass needed to keep them from flying apart w/ their current rotation speeds.

there are multiple theories as to what makes up dark matter, and they involve wimps (weakly interacting massive particles), lots of planets, lots of dimmly shining stars, neutrinos and other weird objects/particles. basically, its a big "we don't know exactly" situation.

Shogun Empress
06-01-2004, 02:20 PM
from my very limited knowledge of cosmology, dark matter is different from dark energy which is mentioned in the article.

dark matter is matter that can't be seen w/ current methods. the only reason scientists propose that it exists is that galaxies seem to be missing something close to 90% of the mass needed to keep them from flying apart w/ their current rotation speeds.

there are multiple theories as to what makes up dark matter, and they involve wimps (weakly interacting massive particles), lots of planets, lots of dimmly shining stars, neutrinos and other weird objects/particles. basically, its a big "we don't know exactly" situation.
lol@wimps Thank you for answering. Another theory is that it could be the same stuff from that cartoon Pirates of Dark Water.

VV o n g B a
06-01-2004, 03:06 PM
lol@wimps Thank you for answering. Another theory is that it could be the same stuff from that cartoon Pirates of Dark Water.
i always wondered what the ethnicity of the characters in that cartoon were...

capoeira
06-01-2004, 04:19 PM
Scientists don't know what water is?!! Oh my God?!! Forget about the infinite expanding universe for a second! You mean to tell me they don't know what 75% of the earth is made of, the thing that is vital to our existence?!!! What we're 90% comprised of?!!!!! LOL!!!!!

lena99
06-01-2004, 06:38 PM
I read an article on dark matter.
I still have no idea what it is though.
However, it's a useful phrase to throw around when writing SF.

Martino
06-02-2004, 06:32 AM
Scientists don't know what water is?!! Oh my God?!! Forget about the infinite expanding universe for a second! You mean to tell me they don't know what 75% of the earth is made of, the thing that is vital to our existence?!!! What we're 90% comprised of?!!!!! LOL!!!!!

You Earthlings. The quote is "It's the equivalent of us not knowing what water is," ie just as water is all around us here on Earth, dark matter is all around us in the greater universe. We should know more about it but don't.

Science is getting too complicated.

I read an article on dark matter.
I still have no idea what it is though.
However, it's a useful phrase to throw around when writing SF.

I come from a universe composed entirely of Doesn't Matter.

Shogun Empress
06-02-2004, 06:56 AM
You Earthlings. The quote is "It's the equivalent of us not knowing what water is," ie just as water is all around us here on Earth, dark matter is all around us in the greater universe. We should know more about it but don't.

Science is getting too complicated.



I come from a universe composed entirely of Doesn't Matter.
What a smartass. :rolleyes:

i always wondered what the ethnicity of the characters in that cartoon were...
I don't think it matters in that cartoon. One elf looking creature is just darker than the other. Now if they started giving the Keebler Elves ethnic traits, there would probaly be protests.