Do you think hapas and adoptees have much in common?

[rice cracker]

Yes? No? What? Discuss?

[Kuchana]

Maybe? :) No seriously I think we do relate in some ways more than others. Ambiguous comment for the moment but will go more into detail later:) I'm hungry and brain dead:P

[amietron]

Isn't the experience a little different, though? Like, an Asian kid adopted by a non-Asian family is going to have a different experience than a half Asian/half white kid growing up. Also has to do with where they live geographically? Circumstantial, maybe?

[rice cracker]

Isn't the experience a little different, though? Like, an Asian kid adopted by a non-Asian family is going to have a different experience than a half Asian/half white kid growing up. Also has to do with where they live geographically? Circumstantial, maybe?

Of course there are differences, just as there are differences between one hapa and the next and the obvious difference in race. What I'm trying to foster is a discussion around similar cultural issues that could be felt by both hapas and adoptees. Such as the impact of being raised in a white environment, detachment from their Asian roots and so on.

[amietron]

Such as the impact of being raised in a white environment, detachment from their Asian roots and so on.
I don't think that's only a half-Asian issue. Don't full Asians who grow up in white towns have similar experiences as well?

[rice cracker]

Eh, fine Amy, they can post here too =)

Edit: I still want this topic in the hapa forum as I would like to keep the hapa focus.

[SunWuKong]

I don't think that's only a half-Asian issue. Don't full Asians who grow up in white towns have similar experiences as well?

i think it goes further than that for mixed Asian people and transracial adoptees. there are issues of self-identification that i think non-mixed, non-adopted Asian people won't have to face because they come from and were raised by two Asian parents. there is also the issue of acceptance by the Asian American community as a whole. i think the Asian American community is much more likely to reject mixed Asians and transracial adoptees from joining their circles. overall, i think these two groups are just much more likely to experience some kind of dissonance in their identities.

[amietron]

would an adoptee adopted by white parents, raised in a white area have a similar experience to that of a half asian raised in a white area? would the other white kids befriend the half asian more easily than the full asian?

this type of thing?

[SunWuKong]

would an adoptee adopted by white parents, raised in a white area have a similar experience to that of a half asian raised in a white area? would the other white kids befriend the half asian more easily than the full asian?

this type of thing?

sure, but what we can discuss is definitely not limited to those issues you listed.

[>:^|]

there is also the issue of acceptance by the Asian American community as a whole. i think the Asian American community is much more likely to reject mixed Asians and transracial adoptees from joining their circles.

I'm curious ... what are ways in which mixed Asians and adoptees feel they are not accepted by the Asian American community?

I've noted that there is often a subtle difference in the way Asian transracial adoptees interact with non-mixed, non-adopted Asians.

[BigLew]

It's funny because in my more "lurking days" I used to read comments on general social beefs many hapas had in situations that I often times agreed with but I just never chimed in cause I wasn't one. But I'd say that with no other group to cling to an AAA (at least one that thinks like me) would find it easier to associate with hapas than other groups when dealing with issues of exlcusion from both sides. But thats not to say the maybe hapas wouldn't like someone who isn't seeming to "pretend" to understand things they go through?

[kimpossible]

I'm curious ... what are ways in which mixed Asians and adoptees feel they are not accepted by the Asian American community?


Not being 'real' Asians. Having a Western name, not speaking an ancestral language, not having constant and updated exposure to trends, news and life in general in a home or country of ancestry of parent(s). Visually, Asians of American nationality or otherwise will have a different reaction to us based on our appearance but I think we might feel more or less Asian depending on upbringing. Twinkiness and whatnot.

[BigLew]

I'm curious ... what are ways in which mixed Asians and adoptees feel they are not accepted by the Asian American community? I feel from the first interactions I had with Asians who had spent most of thier life surrounded by Asians whether it be friend or family, saw me in general as kind of a sell out. Sometimes it was real frivalous shit like, "you don't know who Sung Hi Lee is!?!? OMG you are not Korean dooood!". Stuff like that I could care less about but it was those who treated me as if I couldn't understand what being a minority was about and that obviously I had inherited the privalege of my white parents which is completely untrue.

Older Koreans first ask if I am Korean cause every can seem to tell but me just from looks, then start talking to me in Korean. I explain that I don't speak the language and that I am adopted then an air of dissapointment and an "oh, that figures" attitude. Realy haven't analyzed that one.

I've noted that there is often a subtle difference in the way Asian transracial adoptees interact with non-mixed, non-adopted Asians.Do tell. :wink:

[rice cracker]

Older Koreans first ask if I am Korean cause every can seem to tell but me just from looks, then start talking to me in Korean. I explain that I don't speak the language and that I am adopted then an air of dissapointment and an "oh, that figures" attitude. Realy haven't analyzed that one.


I've gotten this once after I told this Korean waitress I'm half, they put out some sampling of Korean conversation and I just sat there with a "durrrr" look, followed with their "Mmmhmm, thought so," look. Otherwise she was very nice, and gave me cooking tips.

[>:^|]

Not being 'real' Asians. Having a Western name, not speaking an ancestral language, not having constant and updated exposure to trends, news and life in general in a home or country of ancestry of parent(s). Visually, Asians of American nationality or otherwise will have a different reaction to us based on our appearance but I think we might feel more or less Asian depending on upbringing. Twinkiness and whatnot.

I guess what I'm asking is do people give you a hard time about the above? Because the having a "Western" name, etc., sounds like a lot of Asian Americans.

I feel from the first interactions I had with Asians who had spent most of thier life surrounded by Asians whether it be friend or family, saw me in general as kind of a sell out. Sometimes it was real frivalous shit like, "you don't know who Sung Hi Lee is!?!? OMG you are not Korean dooood!".

Okay, for me I think this has to do with whether I'm feeling questioned about my "Asian" identity. Because non-adopted Asian Americans often will say things like that to each other. So context may determine whether I feel bothered by these kinds of statements. But overall this attitude is bullshit--people don't initially choose their environments and have little to do how they were raised.

I'm not sure how to describe the difference in interaction with adopted Asian Americans and I hope I don't offend. But with kids who are transracially adopted, I often note that they have a level of wariness around adult Asians. With adult adoptees, sometimes I feel like they relate to me much in the way the majority culture does. This causes a disconnect for me and I'm not sure why. I'm not sure what part I'm playing in the dynamic. Note that I sometimes know before the person has disclosed.

This is a result of exposure and environment, and this is not to say that anybody isn't "Asian enough" or is a sell-out.

[rice cracker]

Oh, Face, I think Kimpossible meant western surnames?

[>:^|]

Oh, Face, I think Kimpossible meant western surnames?

Oops, sorry. I'm stupid.

I would be majorly annoyed if people questioned my name. Bad enough that idiots sometimes ask me "What kind of name is that?" Frankly, that's not a relevant question in a business transaction.

Several years ago I went to visit a White friend who was having surgery. She was critically ill (later died) and only family members were allowed to visit. I didn't know that. When I checked in at the front desk, the security guard said, "She's your sister, right?" I said, "No ..." and started to explain. The security guard fixed me with this gaze and said, very pointedly, "She's. Your. Sister." Then I got it. The security guard was African American.

So while I was sitting up with her prior to surgery, the attending came around and asked me what I was doing on the floor. He told me non-relatives were not allowed. So I said, "She's my sister." He looked at me and said, "Exactly HOW is she (pointing at friend) YOUR (pointing at me) sister?" The attending was Asian American.

Later I got questioned by an African American doctor, who didn't even blink at that response. He just said, "Oh, okay."

Anyway, sorry, this is a long ramble. But I was thinking about being questioned about family relationships when a family is interracial and also about how the nature of relationships is not necessarily about blood. And how gay and lesbian partners must feel when they are denied acknowledgement of relationships.

[rice cracker]

So I said, "She's my sister." He looked at me and said, "Exactly HOW is she (pointing at friend) YOUR (pointing at me) sister?" The attending was Asian American.

Interesting. My mother once said that when she was out with my little brother, who looked almost completely white as a baby, she would get stared at by strangers.

[SunWuKong]

Interesting. My mother once said that when she was out with my little brother, who looked almost completely white as a baby, she would get stared at by strangers.

maybe they thought she kidnapped the baby and was going to file for permanent adoption...

[rice cracker]

maybe they thought she kidnapped the baby and was going to file for permanent adoption...

Oh, I just thought they figured she was the nanny.

[kimpossible]

Oh, Face, I think Kimpossible meant western surnames?

Yep. I rounded up since the majority of us have sellout Asian ho moms. :smile:

[Bhodi_Li]

Yes.

[rice cracker]

Yes.

Elaborate. *throws screaming, pounding the floor with her fists tantrum*

[BigLew]

Yep. I rounded up since the majority of us have sellout Asian ho moms. :smile:Interestingly enough I have found lately that my western last name coupled with eastern face has been effecting me most in recent Job interviews.

[Craig]

Interestingly enough I have found lately that my western last name coupled with eastern face has been effecting me most in recent Job interviews.Why not change your name ?

[BigLew]

Let's just say all my interviewers spoke to me on the phone and obviously didn't expect an Asian from initial suprised look. The only one who didn't give any suprise was a black manager. Two others from the east coast didn't seem to care after the initial suprise and our conversation was much like our initial phone conversation. Three that I got the "vibe" from, and which the interview was a very different feeling from our initial phone conversation were from the midwest.

Why not change your name ?Cause it's the name I've had my whole life and I don't want another one.

[SynRG]

Oh, I just thought they figured she was the nanny.

That's happened to me. I get really pissed when people ask me if my mom is my amah (maid).

On the subject, I think on a general level hapas do have a whole lot in common with AAA's.. the conflicts that hapas and (I think) AAA's face pretty much all have to do with their identity or existence being "against the norm." When the dominant majority expects you to look/act a certain way or fit a certain profile, and you don't, there's always going to be a sense of exclusion to some extent.. whether it's as small as people giving you a funny look and then getting over it or as being treated as a social outcast and hating yourself or blaming your parents (for either making or adopting you).

The differences lie in how exactly they are deviant from the norm. In comparision to hapas, AAA identity issues (my guess) would be more consistent- Asian face, but raised as white (or non-Asian). Hapas on the other hand have a much more diverse set of conflicts which vary completely compared to individual circumstances. An AAA would prolly have a whole lot to talk about with a hapa with a white dad and an nth generation AA mom than say a hapa with a 1st generation Asian dad or an international hapa who's had more access to both sides of their culture.

[thaite]

No.

[Kuchana]

Let's just say all my interviewers spoke to me on the phone and obviously didn't expect an Asian from initial suprised look. The only one who didn't give any suprise was a black manager. Two others from the east coast didn't seem to care after the initial suprise and our conversation was much like our initial phone conversation. Three that I got the "vibe" from, and which the interview was a very different feeling from our initial phone conversation were from the midwest.

Elarborate more about the "vibe." :)

Yeah I get the same thing. Since I have a Spanish last name and I show my i.d. or say my first and last name, I've received a few startled and puzzling looks.

When I was back home with my friends and family, people always assumed that I was the "friend" while my white friend was my parents' daughter.

[SynRG]

When I was back home with my friends and family, people always assumed that I was the "friend" while my white friend was my parents' daughter.

Does that ever upset you? Or do you ever have instances where people seem to "refuse to believe" that you are actually your parent's daughter?

As a Eurasian, for instance, it really bothers me when people have to ask me "if I'm sure" I'm "really" half Asian, it's like they are assuming I'm lying or something. I'm wondering if AAA's go through the same or similar sort of situations.

[Kuchana]

Does that ever upset you? Or do you ever have instances where people seem to "refuse to believe" that you are actually your parent's daughter?

As a Eurasian, for instance, it really bothers me when people have to ask me "if I'm sure" I'm "really" half Asian, it's like they are assuming I'm lying or something. I'm wondering if AAA's go through the same or similar sort of situations.

Honestly, it bothered me for a long time but I figured hey those people were set in their mindset and however much I tried to explain to them, they still couldn't seem to picture my family and I together or weren't willing to. What was even more troubling were the stares that my family and I would receive whenever we were out together.

[BeTheReds]

Not being 'real' Asians. Having a Western name, not speaking an ancestral language, not having constant and updated exposure to trends, news and life in general in a home or country of ancestry of parent(s). Visually, Asians of American nationality or otherwise will have a different reaction to us based on our appearance but I think we might feel more or less Asian depending on upbringing. Twinkiness and whatnot.


So, basically you're only talking about asian looking hapas with asian moms then, right?

lol. j/k

I don't know what all the issues are with many adoptees, but the ones who call themselves abductees are in my opinion not informed.

Especially if they are Korean and around my age.

Saying something like, "I wish my racist white parents didn't take me away from Korea." really means "I wish I grew up in an orphanage and lived most of my childhood years in a cramped room and forced to go about daily life with no parents in a country strongly predjudiced against orphans and ruled by a dictator until the late 80's"

While I can certainly understand the feelings of looking totally different than your entire family and possibly even the demographic area they were adopted into, I think that this reaction is seperate from what i have had in my hapa experience. But then my hapa experience isn't the same as most hapa experiences either.

There are definately some issues that overlap.

[BigLew]

Saying something like, "I wish my racist white parents didn't take me away from Korea." really means "I wish I grew up in an orphanage and lived most of my childhood years in a cramped room and forced to go about daily life with no parents in a country strongly predjudiced against orphans and ruled by a dictator until the late 80's"
Saying it like that makes it seem so one dimensional and cheapens the experiences of those involved in those issues. It is more about identity and acceptance.

[kimpossible]

Saying something like, "I wish my racist white parents didn't take me away from Korea." really means "I wish I grew up in an orphanage and lived most of my childhood years in a cramped room and forced to go about daily life with no parents in a country strongly predjudiced against orphans and ruled by a dictator until the late 80's"


That's a rather cruel way to back AAAs in a corner and invalidate their experiences and hardships. You know damn well their complaints do not stem from being loved and fed but majority/minority issues, stifling stereotypes, reclaiming an ancestral identity, often being shamed into silence as 'ingrates' as if biological children only have the absolute right to bitch about their parents, family or upbringing. You're also neglecting that the line between charitable orphanage and established export industry is becoming blurred according to some AAAs and others with a stake in transracial adoption.

[>:^|]

Let's just say all my interviewers spoke to me on the phone and obviously didn't expect an Asian from initial suprised look. The only one who didn't give any suprise was a black manager.

Funny, I've had the same experience. I think some people don't recognize my name as "Asian." They have this startled look. Sometimes it extends to the point of being ludicrous, such as when somebody who talked to me over the telephone then asks me in a personal interview if I speak fluent English.

And when I was driving a distant elderly White relative around, people always assumed I was her hired healthcare attendant.

Such is the power of race.

[SunWuKong]

\As a Eurasian, for instance, it really bothers me when people have to ask me "if I'm sure" I'm "really" half Asian

hahhah what the hell??? :rolleyes:

I don't know what all the issues are with many adoptees, but the ones who call themselves abductees are in my opinion not informed.

Especially if they are Korean and around my age.

Saying something like, "I wish my racist white parents didn't take me away from Korea." really means "I wish I grew up in an orphanage and lived most of my childhood years in a cramped room and forced to go about daily life with no parents in a country strongly predjudiced against orphans and ruled by a dictator until the late 80's"

i'm not an adoptee, so i can only speculate here - i'm not so sure that calling themselves "abductees" means that they wish they weren't adopted. isn't that sort of like saying that black people want to "go back" to Africa because they complain about the racism in the country?

it could be that they wished they were adopted by Korean parents, or it could be a sign of complaint against the practices in the industry of transracial adoption.

[BeTheReds]

hahhah what the hell??? :rolleyes:



i'm not an adoptee, so i can only speculate here - i'm not so sure that calling themselves "abductees" means that they wish they weren't adopted. isn't that sort of like saying that black people want to "go back" to Africa because they complain about the racism in the country?

it could be that they wished they were adopted by Korean parents, or it could be a sign of complaint against the practices in the industry of transracial adoption.


Well I'm sorry if what I said has offended anyone, but I think that by calling yourself and abductee you essentially ARE saying that you with that you weren't adopted.

Wishing that you were adopted by Korean parents is like wishing that ice cream wouldn't melt in the desert.

I know the issue has more to do with identity than anything else, but I also find that many Korean adoptees are so ignorant about Korea (with understanding) that they think it is like, some super wonderful euphoiric place with cherries and gumdrops and golden streets. You know, like avid white anime watchers think about Japan. And also, think of the big slap in the face it is to their parents, to call them abductors. They've spent 18+ years raising the child, and their own kids are gonna say they were abducted? (As in kidnapped, or otherwise taken by force.)

It may sound cliche, but people who call themselves abductees really need to stop worrying so much about all they didn't have, and start being grateful for what they did. I can understand feeling at a loss for not being able to connect with certain people, however, I think claiming to be abducted is going too far.

I'm just so glad that we won't have to worry about this problem one generation from now, since the Korean economy is much stronger than it was before.

[BigLew]

You totally miss the context. Most adoptees don't care all that much what they missed out on as Koreans but as Asian Americans yet not being able to relate to Asian Americans. Relating more to thier parents race which is usually white, but of course not being accepted as white. Too many white parents of Asian children take this factor forgranted.

Even though I don't label myself an abductee, don't be so smug as to assume that we should be grateful as when you have no idea what I or anyone else has gone through. You have no basis telling me I should be thankful.

[Bhodi_Li]

Let's just say all my interviewers spoke to me on the phone and obviously didn't expect an Asian from initial suprised look. The only one who didn't give any suprise was a black manager. Two others from the east coast didn't seem to care after the initial suprise and our conversation was much like our initial phone conversation. Three that I got the "vibe" from, and which the interview was a very different feeling from our initial phone conversation were from the midwest.Having grown up in the midwest I would experience this too often. My first college roommate had that reaction. He didn't have a problem, but the Czech last name and my MN accent (if I have one, not sure) threw him off when I walked in the door.

[>:^|]

And also, think of the big slap in the face it is to their parents, to call them abductors. They've spent 18+ years raising the child, and their own kids are gonna say they were abducted? (As in kidnapped, or otherwise taken by force.)

It may sound cliche, but people who call themselves abductees really need to stop worrying so much about all they didn't have, and start being grateful for what they did.

Well, having quite a bit of exposure to White adoptive parents, I have to say that many of them deserve a big slap in the face.

It also strikes me that demanding that kids be "grateful" is another way in which implied American superiority is expressed. Gratitude cannot be demanded; it must be freely given.

Additionally, I think you are dangerously close to defining other people's identities and telling them how they should feel and think. I note that many hapas on this forum have expressed their dismay on these issues. Perhaps that is a commonality for AAAs and hapas. :wink:

[rice cracker]

You totally miss the context. Most adoptees don't care all that much what they missed out on as Koreans but as Asian Americans yet not being able to relate to Asian Americans. Relating more to thier parents race which is usually white, but of course not being accepted as white. Too many white parents of Asian children take this factor forgranted.

Even though I don't label myself an abductee, don't be so smug as to assume that we should be grateful as when you have no idea what I or anyone else has gone through. You have no basis telling me I should be thankful.

I have to go with BigLew on this. The dismissive attitude towards adoptee issues and labeling them as basically "whiners" when discussing identity issues and telling them they should be grateful for what they got is just...rather hypocritical. I've seen rants by hapas and full Asians along similar lines, you know.

[SunWuKong]

It also strikes me that demanding that kids be "grateful" is another way in which implied American superiority is expressed. Gratitude cannot be demanded; it must be freely given.

not that i'm telling adoptees that they should be grateful, but i don't think this necessarily is an implication on American superiority. i think it's just an implication on the superiority of growing up in a real family rather than in an adoption home.

[thaite]

Did anybody post this? I just got this article in my email yesterday.

A Critique of Inter-Country Adoption by Tobias Hubinette (Lee Sam-dol) (http://www.transracialabductees.org/politics/samdolcritique.html)

[rice cracker]

Did anybody post this? I just got this article in my email yesterday.

A Critique of Inter-Country Adoption by Tobias Hubinette (Lee Sam-dol) (http://www.transracialabductees.org/politics/samdolcritique.html)

Very interesting article. Do you think the viewpoint of the author reflects the general attitude of transracial adoptees?

[thaite]

in real life, I know only two adoptees. One of them identifies as Asian-American, but feels he has more in common with hapas than most other AAs, is interested in developing a Korean identity but knows he could never return as fully Korean and really isn't interested in doing so. The other I know is pretty whitewashed and doesn't really seem to have much interest at all in getting in touch or developing an Asian identity. In my observation, she's pretty turned off by most attributes of Asian culture.

So i really have no idea how the general community of adoptees/abductees feel about their situation.

[Kuchana]

So...how would you classify someone who's an adoptee or hapa and while they don't reject their Asian side, at the same time they don't go about making an effort to explore it? Don't peg it as a sellout so easily please.

[BigLew]

I have a feeling some of the members here would think I was a sellout or "whitewashed" if they met me face to face.

[Kuchana]

I have a feeling some of the members here would think I was a sellout or "whitewashed" if they met me face to face.

Elaborate!:P Details, details please. :biggrin:

[thaite]

Well, Big Lew, as a hapa i certainly have my whitewashed peculiarities and moments. I also think there are several degrees and connations of 'whitewash,' some of them more irritating than others. If someone lacks experience or knowledge of the nuances of Asian culture but remain interested in learning and tolerant, well, I can deal with that. BUT, (as in a recent incident I had) if someone embarasses me because I take them to the Asian market while we're out grocery shopping and all they can do is loudly exclaim how 'weird' or 'gross' or smelly everything is, THAT, my friend, is a whitewashed person who I do not want to hanging around with.

[BigLew]

Well, Big Lew, as a hapa i certainly have my whitewashed peculiarities and moments. I also think there are several degrees and connations of 'whitewash,' some of them more irritating than others. If someone lacks experience or knowledge of the nuances of Asian culture but remain interested in learning and tolerant, well, I can deal with that. BUT, (as in a recent incident I had) if someone embarasses me because I take them to the Asian market while we're out grocery shopping and all they can do is loudly exclaim how 'weird' or 'gross' or smelly everything is, THAT, my friend, is a whitewashed person who I do not want to hanging around with.See that's what I'm talking about, many of the things you explained your friend doing at the Asian market I have done in the past. Why? Because it was a totally bewildering experience for me. It was probably the first I'd ever seen or smelled alot of that kind of stuff and also probably the first time I'd ever seen that many Asians in one place at the same time. Seeing how throughout my life I could count all the Asians I knew on one hand until I was about 18 or 19, it was probably a pretty exciting experience for me.

[Kuchana]

Well, Big Lew, as a hapa i certainly have my whitewashed peculiarities and moments. I also think there are several degrees and connations of 'whitewash,' some of them more irritating than others. If someone lacks experience or knowledge of the nuances of Asian culture but remain interested in learning and tolerant, well, I can deal with that. BUT, (as in a recent incident I had) if someone embarasses me because I take them to the Asian market while we're out grocery shopping and all they can do is loudly exclaim how 'weird' or 'gross' or smelly everything is, THAT, my friend, is a whitewashed person who I do not want to hanging around with.

For me the situation was that I was obsessed with learning about my culture and the language when I was a kid; I think being that I was consumed with my identity issue. Yet after high school when I went to college, that part dissipitated where I found myself not obsessed anymore with who I was but accepting it. I know that some people would classify that as being a sellout but I see it as learning to be comfortable with myself and being tolerant of others.

Nowadays I acknowledge my face as Korean yet mentally I'm at peace with myself. I don't make an effort anymore to discover more of myself because I think I'm fine with who I am; it's been a tough and long journey I've taken to come where I'm at.

It's funny the passions that I used to have as a kid aren't part of my present self.
I still have my "eww that's gross," or "no way am I going to taste that," moments. I just have my own tastes and preferances. I don't see that behavior as being closeminded.

[thaite]

yeah, Big Lew, but are you disgusted, or are you "hey, this is all right" ?

It's funny the passions that I used to have as a kid aren't part of my present self. I still have my "eww that's gross," or "no way am I going to taste that," moments. I just have my own tastes and preferances. I don't see that behavior as being closeminded.

Yah, well, I won't eat feet of any kind, that's just my own preference and i wouldn't consider it whitewash either -- my dad's family pickles pig's feet as a German dish, and I won't touch them.

My irritation with my friend in the grocery store had not so much to do with their opinion about certain food items, but their disrespectful behavior in regards to the people in the store. As if there were something inherently wrong or strange about Asians because people wanted to eat these things. I was embarassd because it made me feel that my friend was treating them as an exhibit, and not Asian people doing what Asian people typically do.

You see what I'm saying?

[Kuchana]

yeah, but are you disgusted, or are you "hey, this is all right" ?

In between? I'm willing to learn and try new things but there's a line I draw it at.

[BigLew]

I thought tongue of any type was pretty nasty the smell of fish keeps my visits as short as possible other than that the only thing I mind is how everty one leavs shopping carts wherever the fuck they want in the parking lot.

[rice cracker]

Am I yellow-washed because I typically prepare and eat only Asian-type foods, and prefer to eat those when I go out?

I'm only half being a smart ass :)

[BigLew]

Yes but atleast you are only 1/2 sellout as opposed to being a whole sellout like me...

[rice cracker]

Yes but atleast you are only 1/2 sellout as opposed to being a whole sellout like me...

1/2 sellout, 1/2 activist, 1/2 smartass, 1/2 dumbass. The list goes on and on.

I'm complicated.

[thaite]

i'm 100% smart-ass and I don't know which side that comes from.

[rice cracker]

i'm 100% smart-ass and I don't know which side that comes from.

You are our chosen one! All hail the hapa kwisatch haderach!

[thaite]

You are our chosen one! All hail the hapa kwisatch haderach!

:: uses The Voice ::

Take off your shirt!!!

[SunWuKong]

well, it's ok. a lot of Asian people just expect Westerners or Americanised Asian kids to be grossed out at some of the foods that they eat. i find it funny more than i get offended.

[>:^|]

1/2 sellout, 1/2 activist, 1/2 smartass, 1/2 dumbass.

Wow, there's a lot of you to love. :biggrin:

I dunno if I would ever use the expression "yellow-washed." It sounds perverty.

But seriously ... I don't think you can fault people's way of thinking if they were never exposed to anything else. However, you can fault their rudeness, which is what I think thaite is saying.

[rice cracker]

But seriously ... I don't think you can fault people's way of thinking if they were never exposed to anything else. However, you can fault their rudeness, which is what I think thaite is saying.

Yes, I agree. The rudeness is unnecessary. But then, I'll curl my lip at anything with mayonaise in it. :redface:

[SunWuKong]

rice cracker refuses to eat pig intestines. she's a sell-out.



hi baby. :smile:

[rice cracker]

rice cracker refuses to eat pig intestines. she's a sell-out.



hi baby. :smile:

At least I tried the damn thing.




















After you tricked me into it.

[SunWuKong]

At least I tried the damn thing.




















After you tricked me into it.

maybe you can just eat half of them.

get it?

[Kuchana]

maybe you can just eat half of them.

get it?

oh guys! :redface: get a room! :rolleyes: :biggrin:

[BeTheReds]

You totally miss the context. Most adoptees don't care all that much what they missed out on as Koreans but as Asian Americans yet not being able to relate to Asian Americans. Relating more to thier parents race which is usually white, but of course not being accepted as white. Too many white parents of Asian children take this factor forgranted.

Even though I don't label myself an abductee, don't be so smug as to assume that we should be grateful as when you have no idea what I or anyone else has gone through. You have no basis telling me I should be thankful.


Well, my previous post was to reply to Sun Wu Kong's suggestion that perhaps calling yourself an "abductee" indicates that you wished you were adopted by Koreans instead.

Furthermore nowhere did I say to you that you should be thankful. I admit, I really don't know what you or any other adoptee has gone through, but I do know (not firsthand) that raising a kid is no easy chore. To suggest that a couple who spent 18 years of their lives and a fortune on raising a kid "deserves" a slap in the face is kind of sickening. You don't need to get down on your knees and worship your parents for saving you from hardship and civilizing you (like you are suggesting I advocated), but at the same time, you shouldn't disrespect them by calling yourself an abductee, as if they committed a crime.

Again, none of these are adressed specifically to you.


Now, about not being able to relate to Asian-Americans... I'm confused, because what exactly is it that you can't relate about? Maybe it is the fact that I've never been able to relate to Asian-Americans as a whole myself that I don't understand this. It seems to me though, that Asian-Americans usually tend to speak English with each other, and their knowledge of their ancestral culture is only very strong if their parents were immigrants, and even then, not so strong that it would prevent them from interacting with Asian-Americans from other ancestral cultures. This is why I'd expect that an adoptee would have no problem fitting in, because he speaks English, looks Asian (and because of that recieved all the things that came with it), and grew up in the USA. Perhaps in my case, the reason I couldn't relate is because I looked different, so I must have assumed that my looks were the only thing keeping me out. And since adoptees have the looks...

And please, I'm really really not trying to be inflammatory about this, so don't get angry at me. If anything I'm being educated to something that I previously didn't understand. It appears that I still don't understand.

rice cracker refuses to eat pig intestines.


Blasphemy!

I have to go with BigLew on this. The dismissive attitude towards adoptee issues and labeling them as basically "whiners" when discussing identity issues and telling them they should be grateful for what they got is just...rather hypocritical. I've seen rants by hapas and full Asians along similar lines, you know.


Okay I see your point, maybe grateful isn't the right word. But calling your parents criminals for adopting you is a little too extreme in my opinion.


Again, this isn't something that I understand very well, so I might come off as a dumass sometimes.

[SynRG]

hahhah what the hell??? :rolleyes:


Heh, you'd be surprised, especially when I was younger some people really thought I was lying about my race/ethnicity. Silly people they were. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[BigLew]

Well, my previous post was to reply to Sun Wu Kong's suggestion that perhaps calling yourself an "abductee" indicates that you wished you were adopted by Koreans instead.

Furthermore nowhere did I say to you that you should be thankful. I admit, I really don't know what you or any other adoptee has gone through, but I do know (not firsthand) that raising a kid is no easy chore. To suggest that a couple who spent 18 years of their lives and a fortune on raising a kid "deserves" a slap in the face is kind of sickening. You don't need to get down on your knees and worship your parents for saving you from hardship and civilizing you (like you are suggesting I advocated), but at the same time, you shouldn't disrespect them by calling yourself an abductee, as if they committed a crime.

Again, none of these are adressed specifically to you.
I didn't think they were addressed specifically at me. I just didn't like the fact that it seemed like your were suggesting, that because of adopted status, adoptees should be all that much more inclined to be grateful, which is untrue.


Now, about not being able to relate to Asian-Americans... I'm confused, because what exactly is it that you can't relate about? Maybe it is the fact that I've never been able to relate to Asian-Americans as a whole myself that I don't understand this. It seems to me though, that Asian-Americans usually tend to speak English with each other, and their knowledge of their ancestral culture is only very strong if their parents were immigrants, and even then, not so strong that it would prevent them from interacting with Asian-Americans from other ancestral cultures. This is why I'd expect that an adoptee would have no problem fitting in, because he speaks English, looks Asian (and because of that recieved all the things that came with it), and grew up in the USA. Perhaps in my case, the reason I couldn't relate is because I looked different, so I must have assumed that my looks were the only thing keeping me out. And since adoptees have the looks...

And please, I'm really really not trying to be inflammatory about this, so don't get angry at me. If anything I'm being educated to something that I previously didn't understand. It appears that I still don't understand.
Well obviously since so many AAAs voice having trouble relating to Asian Americans at enough frequency that it is a prevalent phenomena, it goes deeper than looking like your fellow Asian. If I knew for sure why I personally have a hard time relating I'd probably have more Asian American friends, so your guess is as good as mine.

[Seamus]

Well obviously since so many AAAs voice having trouble relating to Asian Americans at enough frequency that it is a prevalent phenomena

Is it that prevalent of a phenomenon?
I think this "phenomenon" really depends on the specifics, like what part of the country you're in, or whether they have other AAAs to relate to. Otherwise, you might be seeing an entirely different phenomenon than me.

[BigLew]

Are you and adoptee? Also how much reading up do you do on transracial adoptee issues? I don't know of many in person because we are so few I get most of my info on stuff I read and give a head nodd "I relate" to.

[Seamus]

Oh no, by "than me" I was referring to my experiences knowing adoptees. I've known two, one of whom hung out mostly with Asians. I didn't know him well, though, so it's not like I can get inside his head. But yeah, I'd imagine that AAAs are pretty spread out. Much less common than, say, multiracial Asians, for example.

[Kuchana]

Are you and adoptee? Also how much reading up do you do on transracial adoptee issues? I don't know of many in person because we are so few I get most of my info on stuff I read and give a head nodd "I relate" to.

Maybe there should be a separate forum relating to Adoptee issues?

[BigLew]

Maybe there should be a separate forum relating to Adoptee issues?It's already been discussed, tapestrybabe has brought it up and our case is that there are not enough of us nore enough adoptee discussion to warrant a whole seperate forum.

[rice cracker]

Has this thread outlived it's usefullness or can we still discuss common issues between hapas and adoptees? Let me know :)

[BigLew]

Got pretty caught up and forgot how OT it'd become sorry but yeah.

[rice cracker]

Got pretty caught up and forgot how OT it'd become sorry but yeah.

It's all good. We can see this as a side effect from being marginalized.

[>:^|]

Now, about not being able to relate to Asian-Americans... I'm confused, because what exactly is it that you can't relate about? Maybe it is the fact that I've never been able to relate to Asian-Americans as a whole myself that I don't understand this. It seems to me though, that Asian-Americans usually tend to speak English with each other, and their knowledge of their ancestral culture is only very strong if their parents were immigrants, and even then, not so strong that it would prevent them from interacting with Asian-Americans from other ancestral cultures. This is why I'd expect that an adoptee would have no problem fitting in, because he speaks English, looks Asian (and because of that recieved all the things that came with it), and grew up in the USA. Perhaps in my case, the reason I couldn't relate is because I looked different, so I must have assumed that my looks were the only thing keeping me out. And since adoptees have the looks...

Hmmm ... I think I can see where looks would influence the way others might relate to you. There's a disconnect if the face doesn't match the person. So for White-appearing hapas this might be because they view themselves as culturally Asian, but others see them as White. But for Asian-appearing adoptees, this might be because they have been raised as White, but others see them as Asian.

I would liken it to that interview-over-the-telephone thing. You get interviewed over the telephone, and all that time the interviewer is envisioning a White person. Then when he or she meets you, there is a disconnect because he or she can't connect your face with the pre-formed image.

[Kuchana]

I would liken it to that interview-over-the-telephone thing. You get interviewed over the telephone, and all that time the interviewer is envisioning a White person. Then when he or she meets you, there is a disconnect because he or she can't connect your face with the pre-formed image.

Exactly! It's happened to me quite a few times already.

[SunWuKong]

Exactly! It's happened to me quite a few times already.

i think this has actually happened to some of my Filipino friends. except that instead of thinking they were white, people thought they were Hispanic.

[BeTheReds]

Exactly! It's happened to me quite a few times already.


I have the exact opposite happening to me in America. They expect an Asian dude but then when I meet them it's totally different.


I've also been telemarketed in Chinese.

[Kuchana]

I have the exact opposite happening to me in America. They expect an Asian dude but then when I meet them it's totally different.


I've also been telemarketed in Chinese.

Really? Due to your name or to your accent?

i think this has actually happened to some of my Filipino friends. except that instead of thinking they were white, people thought they were Hispanic.

How is that?

[BeTheReds]

Really? Due to your name or to your accent?



Name

I don't have a foreign accent.

I didn't think they were addressed specifically at me. I just didn't like the fact that it seemed like your were suggesting, that because of adopted status, adoptees should be all that much more inclined to be grateful, which is untrue.


Well maybe I wasn't making meself clear then. There shouldn't be any more incination to feel grateful, but people should respect their parents, adopted or not. Calling your parents criminals for adopting you is not respect. That's all I was trying to get at.


Well obviously since so many AAAs voice having trouble relating to Asian Americans at enough frequency that it is a prevalent phenomena, it goes deeper than looking like your fellow Asian. If I knew for sure why I personally have a hard time relating I'd probably have more Asian American friends, so your guess is as good as mine.


I'm not denying that there is any trouble relating, I just want to know what it is based on.

One thing I can possibly imagine is being raised by immigrants vs not being raised by immigrants, but in that case, Asian-American Adoptees shouldn't have trouble fitting in with 3rd or 4th gen Asian-Americans. Too bad there are so few around.

Anyway it seems like hapas and adoptees have a lot more in common in terms of identity (though often different sides of the same coin) than I thought. However, being that I still don't see hapas as a community or classifiable group, it's also hard for me to see adoptees that way. (Though admittedly a little bit easier, since I am not a part of it...)

[>:^|]

Respect, like gratitude, must be earned.

[rice cracker]

Respect, like gratitude, must be earned.

This is true. I'm not adopted, but I don't respect my parents at all. Having a white dad has exposed me to anti-asian racism in my very own home.

[BigLew]

Well maybe I wasn't making meself clear then. There shouldn't be any more incination to feel grateful, but people should respect their parents, adopted or not. Calling your parents criminals for adopting you is not respect. That's all I was trying to get at.Well it's not really for the adopting itself, it the context of the adoption and how they treat the process. Many parents treat adoption like accessory shoping and ignore racism and identity issues that transracial adoptees have. So many are bitter about this. The inclination to be grateful is something that is often what is pushed on adoptees when complaints are brought up. As far as respecting parents in general, I'm in agreeance with face.

I'm not denying that there is any trouble relating, I just want to know what it is based on.

One thing I can possibly imagine is being raised by immigrants vs not being raised by immigrants, but in that case, Asian-American Adoptees shouldn't have trouble fitting in with 3rd or 4th gen Asian-Americans. Too bad there are so few around.Like I said I don't realy know the true answer, but I can say even 3rd and 4th gen AA's often times grow up and are accustom to other Asians if not in a community setting at least in a home setting.

Anyway it seems like hapas and adoptees have a lot more in common in terms of identity (though often different sides of the same coin) than I thought. However, being that I still don't see hapas as a community or classifiable group, it's also hard for me to see adoptees that way. (Though admittedly a little bit easier, since I am not a part of it...)I actually agree, if we meet up somewhere along our lives we can relate in similar experiences with other tranracial adoptees, but it's not like there is a community of just a bunch of adoptees living in the same neighborhood.

[BeTheReds]

This is true. I'm not adopted, but I don't respect my parents at all. Having a white dad has exposed me to anti-asian racism in my very own home.

Not at all?

Respect, like gratitude, must be earned.


Okay, so they don't earn their childrens' respect by raising them and supporting them? Is that not enough?

How can this respect be earned? It appears that it can't the way people are talking here. Honestly, how do you expect an average White family to provide an adopted kid with an Asian-American upbringing? It's nearly impossible. The only answer is that they shouldn't have adopted Asian in the first place. And that's not really a solution because what is done is done.

[rice cracker]

Not. At. All.

[BeTheReds]

Not. At. All.


Wow, that's harsh!

[BigLew]

Okay, so they don't earn their childrens' respect by raising them and supporting them? Is that not enough?Just to throw this out there, and this is a avery extreme example, should a child who was molested by one of thier parents grow up to respect thier parents even though thier parents might have raised them, fed them put clothes on them and paid for a college education?

How can this respect be earned? It appears that it can't the way people are talking here. Honestly, how do you expect an average White family to provide an adopted kid with an Asian-American upbringing? It's nearly impossible. The only answer is that they shouldn't have adopted Asian in the first place. And that's not really a solution because what is done is done.Recognizing and confronting racism would be a nice start. I was exposed to racism probably first in my own family as well, my mother recognized this but chose to ignore it all the time, and my father well he just decided to do it. Exposing children to role models that look like them would also be good. I've said this before but when I was kid that fantacized about being an action hero when I grew up, my adult version of myself in my imagination was white. Some newer generation adoptive parents are even going as far as moving into communities that are primarilly Asian American.

[BeTheReds]

Just to throw this out there, and this is a avery extreme example, should a child who was molested by one of thier parents grow up to respect thier parents even though thier parents might have raised them, fed them put clothes on them and paid for a college education?

You're right, it's extreme. If an Asian-American adoptee is being molested by his/her parents, then I have no problems with the abductee label, cuz that's what it is.


Recognizing and confronting racism would be a nice start. I was exposed to racism probably first in my own family as well, my mother recognized this but chose to ignore it all the time, and my father well he just decided to do it. Exposing children to role models that look like them would also be good. I've said this before but when I was kid that fantacized about being an action hero when I grew up, my adult version of myself in my imagination was white. Some newer generation adoptive parents are even going as far as moving into communities that are primarilly Asian American.


Good point. A lot of times, white adoptive parents won't know exactly how to cope with racism because they haven't ever experienced it themselves (in the same way), and for those who are perpetuators of it, they probably unknowingly do it.

About the role model thing... That's a problem that affects all Asians, being that there are no prominent male Asian role models in American media. It certainly would be difficult to find some in the form of celebrities. Tho in the form of family friends, I'd hope that there would be at least some....

[BigLew]

You're right, it's extreme. If an Asian-American adoptee is being molested by his/her parents, then I have no problems with the abductee label, cuz that's what it is.I wasn't equating it to being an adoptee I was just pointing out that just because parents provide doesn't mean they should automatically be respected, anybody's parents not just adoptees.

About the role model thing... That's a problem that affects all Asians, being that there are no prominent male Asian role models in American media. It certainly would be difficult to find some in the form of celebrities. Tho in the form of family friends, I'd hope that there would be at least some....Well I was thinking more in terms of role models in the immedediate community that someone lives and grows up in.

[BeTheReds]

I wasn't equating it to being an adoptee I was just pointing out that just because parents provide doesn't mean they should automatically be respected, anybody's parents not just adoptees.

While that's certainly true, if your parents haven't committed any crimes against you then you have no business calling them criminals. Maybe the correct word isn't respect OR gratitude, maybe appreciation? I don't know, it seems like you and I are not speaking the same language. Don't you think that raising a kid is tough work, and that parents often sacrifice things for the benefit of their children?


Well I was thinking more in terms of role models in the immedediate community that someone lives and grows up in.

So basically living in an area with a high concentration of Asians is your soultion to the whole thing?

[BigLew]

While that's certainly true, if your parents haven't committed any crimes against you then you have no business calling them criminals. Maybe the correct word isn't respect OR gratitude, maybe appreciation? I don't know, it seems like you and I are not speaking the same language. Don't you think that raising a kid is tough work, and that parents often sacrifice things for the benefit of their children?If a parent is a good parent then yes they deserve all the respect and appreciation in the world. As suggested before the respect should be earned, that's all I am saying.

I'd like to reiterate I don't use the label abuctee to apply to myself and I don't think it's the intention to call them criminals as it is used more to describe how they feel themselves or about thier situation. We can argue about the use and meaning behind the word abductee all day, it's still not gonna change the fact that some do feel that way.

http://www.transracialabductees.org/

This group uses the label so maybe it is worth exploring there.

So basically living in an area with a high concentration of Asians is your soultion to the whole thing?I don't think there is a one shot fix to anything of course and that is not what I was suggesting.

[Seamus]

About the role model thing... That's a problem that affects all Asians, being that there are no prominent male Asian role models in American media. It certainly would be difficult to find some in the form of celebrities. Tho in the form of family friends, I'd hope that there would be at least some....

That really resonates with me, and I grew up with my (Asian) parents. All my childhood heroes (besides my dad) were white. I wanted to be Joe Montana. It was only later, during my adolescence, that I began to think about things more critically. Now, I consider my dad a role model. I'm not sure whether I'd go so far as to say that he's a hero to me, but it's not out of the question.

[Catnip Dream]

Good thread.
I think that hapas and adoptees have more in common with each other than they do with the larger Asian groups. We, for one thing, don't have the same "assimilation" dilemma that first and second generations have. This seems to be a binding factor among first and second generation Asians and is an experience that most adoptees and (probably) hapas don't share.
Definitely, between hapas and adoptees there are the obvious differences, such as appearance, that present separate issues. But it seems that of the two "populations", I've had more rapport with hapas than with first or second generation Asians. Specifically, it seems that while different in methods and goals, the self-identification processes for hapas and adoptees have similar emotions involved. There is anger and frustration resulting from experiences of rejection from the "full" Asian community, along with pride, hurt, insecurity, etc.--not to mention invisibility and subtle rejection from the larger, non-Asian population. I can't speak for *everyone* of course, but on the emotional level, I've found that I share similar sentiments with hapas. And when both the adoptee and the hapa mention their identities, the larger Asian community and other communities express shock and disbelief--for adoptees, when revealing nationality; for hapas, when revealing ancestry.
On a different topic (but mentioned on this thread), a separate issue altogether that is faced by adoptees everywhere is the pathologization of adoption. The entertainment industry loves to portray adoptees as these empty, searching souls who lack identities (and often, character) of any sort because they don't know who their "real" parents are. And you always hear about those emotionally disturbed kids adopted from wherever (the trend seems to be Eastern Europe) who "turn on" their benevolent (almost always white) adoptive parents. And, of course, the exotic adopted children of celebrities, who seem to be toys or pets rather than children based on the way they're mentioned in print. In reality, most statistics show that adoptive families, due to the screening process, have good social support, financial support, and other resources that are deemed by the Psychology community and the government as necessary for optimal parenting and family dynamics. Of course, knowledge of biological history is a very important issue for every adoptee at some point in his or her life. But the resulting social invalidation of the adoption experience just because it's not the "normal" route to "family" is probably one of the largest determining factors of why adoptees feel at odds with their identity. I never questioned or felt insecure about my identity until others started saying "real" parents, and from that point asking me if I knew karate and could read Chinese just because I looked generically Asian. I KNOW you all know what I'm talking about...

[Filiprish]

I think hapas and adoptees have a lot in common, mainly because our non-mixed parents haven't a clue of what we go through.

[SunWuKong]

I think hapas and adoptees have a lot in common, mainly because our non-mixed parents haven't a clue of what we go through.

couldn't the same be said of the Asian parent of a hapa?

[Mr.Lum]

^Wouldn't that be one of the nonmixed parents?

[BigLew]

I think hapas and adoptees have a lot in common, mainly because our non-mixed parents haven't a clue of what we go through.I feel that the minority parent could relate to some of the things that their mixed children expecially those individuals whose ethnic side realy shows.

[Filiprish]

I feel that the minority parent could relate to some of the things that their mixed children expecially those individuals whose ethnic side realy shows.
True. Still, the Asian parent can't know what it's like to be mixed and/or have the kind of identities issues exclusive to hapas. I guess you can say hapas have it better than adoptees with "white" parents, though.

[BeTheReds]

bump

[tapestrybabe]

I think hapas and adoptees have a lot in common

i disagree...
lets take an example of a half white/half korean...

they have 2 sets of parents...
one white, the other korean...
BOTH parents who end up being
BLOod RELATEd to that child...

and while i have 2 sets of parents...
my WHITE parents are NOT RELAted to me in anyway...
so when it comes to my WHITE parents history...
their SO CALLED FAMILY tree...
i am NOT a part of their WHITE history...
cuz ONCE AGAIN, i am NOT blood related
to my white parents in anyway...

and unlike those half white/half koreans...
my WHITE parents didnt make me...
koreans did...

and unlike those half white/half koreans...
they dont have that korean history like me...
they didnt come from a korean orphanage...
they didnt come from a korean foster family...

and unlike those half white/half koreans...
they ALREADY KNOW who their two sets of parents are...
while ME, i have NO CLUe about my korean biological/birth parents...

of course, if one is a mixed raced asian adoptee...
thats a different story...
but ones MULTiRAcial identity issues...
i feel is a WHOLE LOT seperate and different
than my asian/korean adoptee ones...

[BeTheReds]

I agree with everything that you said Toni, but you got me scratching my head here...


and unlike those half white/half koreans...
they dont have that korean history like me...


I'm not trying to compromise your Korean-ness in any way, but wouldn't someone who was raised by one Korean parent have more readiable first hand access to Korean history and cultural niuances than someone raised by no Korean parents?

Maybe I didn't understand what you meant by Korean history...

please explain...

[tapestrybabe]

I agree with everything that you said tapestrybabe, but you got me scratching my head here...

I'm not trying to compromise your Korean-ness in any way, but wouldn't someone who was raised by one Korean parent have more readiable first hand access to Korean history and cultural niuances than someone raised by no Korean parents?

Maybe I didn't understand what you meant by Korean history...

please explain...

i suppose when i say korean history...
what i mean is...
i had a life, history in korea...

of course, a mixed korean or whomever...
could also have had a life
to begin with in korea or wherever too...
but the DIFFERENCE is...
its a history that is EASILY accessable...
cuz you ALREADY know who your
korean/asian parents are...
where MINE is NOT...
but theres just a HUGE VOId...
BIG QUESTION MARK about my history...
hell, i DONt even know WHERE i was
exactly born... or WHEn for that matter...

a mixed korean/asian...
they dont feel what i feel when it comes to NOT knowing... they dont have that history of being born into a korean family.. and than being given up to another... they dont have that history... of living in an orphanage or a foster family... and than to live in an entire different country to live with folks TOTAlly unrelated to you... like mixed asians, they dont feel what i feel when it comes to that sense of loss, abandonment, and seperation like i do...

yeah, this is a photo of me in korea...
only us adoptees have...
yeah, theres NO WAY a mixed korean
can compare their own history
with us korean/asian adoptees...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tapestrybabe/ce5328fb.jpg

[BeTheReds]

BIG QUESTION MARK about my history...
hell, i DONt even know WHERE i was
exactly born... or WHEn for that matter...


Okay so what you are saying is that it's the LACK of personal history than you were talking about that is central to adoptee identity.

they dont feel what i feel when it comes to that sense of loss, abandonment, and seperation like i do...

Probably not to the same magnitude, no, but it's all there, but mostly manifesting iteself in the form of discrimination from full blooded Asians... So I suppose that's totally different.


yeah, theres NO WAY a mixed korean
can compare their own history
with us korean/asian adoptees...


I know it's not what you meant, but from the way your post went I sensed an aire of superiority from you, or a sense that mixed Koreans/Asians are inferior. I'm a little sensitive so don't mind me.

But if I'm one of the people that is most critical of hapas and the hapa movement, and I get that feeling from your post, I'm sure that most of the crazy active movement would be convinced that you feel superior to hapas. So anyway, be careful whatcha say, er rather, how you say it.

Peace..

BTW, when do you think we'll have an adoptee forum here.. lol.

[tapestrybabe]

I know it's not what you meant, but from the way your post went I sensed an aire of superiority from you, or a sense that mixed Koreans/Asians are inferior. I'm a little sensitive so don't mind me.

in all due respect...
i find that being a korean adopted and raised by white parents that are unrelated to you... is a very different experience being a korean being raised by your biological korean and white parents...

and yes, i said korean...
as opposed to half white/half korean...
and i said korean as opposed to...
being white... and than just being part korean...

refer it to the one drop blood rule or whatever... or depending on how one views themselves... i just know... when it comes to my perception of half white/ half koreans... i tend to view them as VERy much fully korean/asian first... who share that same ethnic background as me... but who just happen to be part white tho...

[Filiprish]

Well, tapestrybabe, I only said Hapas and adoptees have a lot in common, of course Hapas have an advantage b/c they are a mix of both their parents and not one-half of a dichotomy, the other half being both their parents. But both, Hapas and aboptees, do not relate entirely to either of their parents. While I agree that Hapas have an advantage, you might be able to say adoptees have an advantage as well. At least they don't feel like they have to choose between one of their parent's ethnicities. IMO, adoptees can "act" their parent's ethnicity w/ less hesitation and search for balance. But, I'm not trying to play the who has it worse than who game, I'm just trying to point out is how much Hapas and adoptees have in common.

I feel that the minority parent could relate to some of the things that their mixed children expecially those individuals whose ethnic side realy shows.
I have to reply to this comment again. It's a common fallacy to think that someone will "act" the way they look. In the case of unambiguous-looking Hapas, what about their environment? It's not always so unambiguous. While they may look non-mixed their environment is inherently mixed. That cannot be taken away nor should be denied, no matter how convenient it may be for others to disregard a their mixed status b/c it's not physically apparent.

[BeTheReds]

So where are the adoptees then?