"Let A Hundred Flowers Bloom"

[SunWuKong]

Ok, in general, I support the CCP. It's governance of China is far from perfect, but it has its mind set on the number one concern of the Chinese people - raising standards of living and keeping everybody well-fed.

but currently these are the three biggest things that pisses me off:

Military Thread Toward Taiwan
I don't know what they're thinking. Anybody with half a brain can tell those stooges in the CCP that military threat is only going to leave a bad taste in Taiwanese people's mouths and make them all the more not want reunification. And unless they're all senile, they know that there's no way they can actually take Taiwan by force with US intervention. So what's up with the stupid military threat???

North Korean Refugees
It's about time they recognize these people as what they are - refugees. Ok, fine, they don't want to damage its relationship with North Korea. But that is a small price to pay and easy trade-off for improved relationship with South Korea and the rest of the international community.

Banning Google
What the fuck???

[kasia]

what are some possible reasons behind each of things?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 6 2002, 01:58 AM
what are some possible reasons behind each of things?
stupidity?

[artsfartsyjanet]

power, oppression (whether they are conscious of it or not)... probably not.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Sep 6 2002, 03:53 AM-->

[deez nuts]

I agree with you on all those, but would like to add that Taiwan isn't hands clean of the independent sovereign nation either. They both feed of each other, in my opinion. Especially after what HH posted on her thread President calls on Beijing to accept, nation's sovereigntyand what I read from the Taiwan Times and Liberty Times daily.

I think it's all more bark than bite on both sides. Any offensive military force to take back Taiwan by China will result in US intervention. But rather you agree with me or not, I think Taiwan needs China whether it be 1)Part of China or 2)an independent sovereignty. It's like a symbiotic relationship, even so nowadays with China being an economic power.

Heh I usually don't like discussing this because from my experience discussion of this gets ugly when I talk about it with my Chinese and Tawainese friends.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 6 2002, 08:06 AM-->

[kimpossible]

I think it was like not much more than a year after Ah-bian was elected that I saw a speech given by a KMT official. Kind of already had my arms crossed in a hyperjudgmental way before he spoke but he was actually pretty cool and had some good points about the unreality of Taiwan separating from China.

Looking at just the military aspect, even if the U.S. gets involved and even if we let Taiwan go nutty in the U.S. wartoy shop, it won't make a difference in the long term. Between military hardware and units like the frogmen, Taiwan would most likely 'win' the initial battle. Long term, the PRC has the advantage because they eventually could wear down Taiwan. Acting on the declaration to separate is not likely.

Eh... sorry to cut short. Have to head off to work.

[wylin]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 6 2002, 07:52 AM
I think it was like not much more than a year after Ah-bian was elected that I saw a speech given by a KMT official. Kind of already had my arms crossed in a hyperjudgmental way before he spoke but he was actually pretty cool and had some good points about the unreality of Taiwan separating from China.

Looking at just the military aspect, even if the U.S. gets involved and even if we let Taiwan go nutty in the U.S. wartoy shop, it won't make a difference in the long term. Between military hardware and units like the frogmen, Taiwan would most likely 'win' the initial battle. Long term, the PRC has the advantage because they eventually could wear down Taiwan. Acting on the declaration to separate is not likely.

Eh... sorry to cut short. Have to head off to work.
the PRC has new toys also Hello Happa they been recently aquiring the latest and greatest of Russian Technology (which now features NATO style avonics/electonics and displays) happy fun things like the most manuverable fightercraft in the world Mig 29 Fulcrum and Su-27/SU-35 Flanker and Super Flanker and their lovely and almost undodgable ARcher missiles (the us has yet to find sumthing that can avoid these small and fast Short range Air to Air missiles), T94 type main battle tanks (only 40-45 million$), etc. Taiwans paltry used and obsolete US equipment from 80's and early 90's like the f16C/d, Aegis cruiser, and others and the overwhelming disadvantage numerically prob would mean they get their asses handed to them in the 1st exchange.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 6 2002, 08:05 AM
I agree with you on all those, but would like to add that Taiwan isn't hands clean of the independent sovereign nation either. They both feed of each other, in my opinion. Especially after what HH posted on her thread President calls on Beijing to accept, nation's sovereigntyand what I read from the Taiwan Times and Liberty Times daily.

I think it's all more bark than bite on both sides. Any offensive military force to take back Taiwan by China will result in US intervention. But rather you agree with me or not, I think Taiwan needs China whether it be 1)Part of China or 2)an independent sovereignty. It's like a symbiotic relationship, even so nowadays with China being an economic power.

Heh I usually don't like discussing this because from my experience discussion of this gets ugly when I talk about it with my Chinese and Tawainese friends.
yeah i agree. even though i know that majority of populist support in taiwan is overtly for status quo and covertly for independence, i think it's true what the CCP says, that there's pro-independence forces trying to influence people's minds in taiwan. just look at the number of pro-independence lobbyists in washington. and it would be incredibly naive to think that the CCP is the only one involved in propaganda. one look at the DPP's website and you can tell what i mean.

yeah i think taiwan will only become closer with china as time progresses. even lee kuan yew had said this (to the dismay of many pro-independence people in taiwan).

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 5 2002, 10:01 PM
It's about time they recognize these people as what they are - refugees. Ok, fine, they don't want to damage its relationship with North Korea. But that is a small price to pay and easy trade-off for improved relationship with South Korea and the rest of the international community.

Actually, in a weird way, I've sort of appreciated their even stance that they've taken with the North Korean refugees. Although it's widely televised of women and children running from Chinese guards, to their credit, the Chinese have been very even-handed with how they've handled things. They're under no obligation to let any of these refugees go, but I think in a number of cases, they've looked the other way.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 6 2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 5 2002, 10:01 PM
It's about time they recognize these people as what they are - refugees. Ok, fine, they don't want to damage its relationship with North Korea. But that is a small price to pay and easy trade-off for improved relationship with South Korea and the rest of the international community.

Actually, in a weird way, I've sort of appreciated their even stance that they've taken with the North Korean refugees. Although it's widely televised of women and children running from Chinese guards, to their credit, the Chinese have been very even-handed with how they've handled things. They're under no obligation to let any of these refugees go, but I think in a number of cases, they've looked the other way.
yeah, this is what i thought at first. but it's really easy to think this because the CCP is such a hard-nosed government. after i thought about it though, i had to change my mind. there are tens of thousands (perhaps more?) of korean refugees living in northeastern china. they are not recognized by china which means they have no status within china. that means they're pretty much under the mercy of the chinese people they come across, or of the legal koreans that live there, for that matter. if they're lucky, people will overlook their illegal status, or people might even help them out. if they're not lucky, then it's pretty much open season on them. they don't have the authority's protection at all. who can you turn to if some guy comes along and kills your brother? who can you turn to if some guy comes along and kidnap your sister as his sex slave (yes it has happened)? you'd be lucky if this same guy doesn't also report you to the authorities. their mere existence in china is a danger to them.

in light of this, what makes me say that this pisses me off is the fact that it takes hardly any effort at all for china to recognize their refugee status. and angering north korea is a very small price to pay for better relationship with south korea and the rest of the international community. gee... north korea, or everybody else? it makes sense for the government to recognize these people as refugees.



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Sep 6 2002, 07:18 PM-->

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 7 2002, 12:15 AM
gee... north korea, or everybody else? it makes sense for the government to recognize these people as refugees.
well, China wants the NK/SK situation resolved on their terms. They want a voice in reunification negotiations cuz they do not want to see a unified Korea which puts US troops on the border. I don't doubt they'd be willing to send every refugee back to North Korea to prevent this scenario.

Right now they're guaranteed that voice in any serious reunification talks between the two Korean governments because they are seen as the only major country with any influence in the North Korean government. that makes them unique, a lot more unique than joining the "everyone else" side of the debate. They like to be seen as a damper on Kim Jong Il's insanity ... so whenever the leaders of the rest of the world have some trouble with North Korea, they go to the CCP, kowtow a bit, and see if they'll deign to use their influence in Pyongyang to fix things up. If the CCP publically embarasses NK, there will be a public argument between Beijing and Pyongyang with plenty of "running dogs of capitalism"-style denunciations, dimishing the internationalnperception of Beijing's influence in Pyongyang.