johnys large wheel problems

[wylin]

any complaints on the car yet?

I slowly found a few on mine after driving it for a week, but most come from the dumb wheel/tire option.  

I'll explain: I've learned that there is a sacrifice in opting for the "bigger" wheel, in other words, you pay the price for having more"bling bling!"  Not only is it more costly, but the ride suffers and the car is more susceptible to road bumps and pot hole etc.  18" wheels are nice but if you want ride comfort go to 17" diameter max.

Okay I'm ranting on my problems now when this should be a new topic  :P

even though I may bitch about the rough ride and harsh ride, if I had the money I would still go bigger and get 19" rims.  I guess I just like to floss my ride around...is there anything wrong with that  ;)

[wylin]

weight unless ur car makes enuff power to move those large wheels u got a big problem and are slowing ur car down. Also wheel height such as 17, 18 , 19' inch is only part of the equasion. Factor in tire width and ur 17-19' FWD 17x7, 18x7, 19x7 those are weak sauce compared to my 17x8 17x9 that i have on right now and the 18x.85 and 18x9.5 that i want later. Wider is better. seeing a 215/35VR19 tire compared to my fat rears is weak my rears are 255/40ZR17 their 255mm wide compared to 215mm used by FWD cars.

Also my rides probs a lil better and since i am running wide arse tires i have more grip.

2 things i consider when buying wheels 1 are they light, 2 are they rare the same rulse can be used for FWD car choices.

[wylin]

also for a FWD car i'd get sumthing like 16x7 Regamaster EVO/ Spoon SW388 (same wheel) or SSR Type X or SSR Competition. Kei Office KSE 15x6.5 and 16x7 is also a good choice. those wheels all weight around 10lb

[mrazntre]

yup,

- rotational mass.
- wheel well rub.


won't help you in the wet.

[johnny]

what about for my bimmer? da 18s I was meaning on my bimmer it gives it a harsh ride... I think the sizing is something like 225/40/18.. so wylin I ask you what's 225 converted to inches? 8? 8.5?

Anyways, for bimmers usually, the rear tire is supposedly bigger (due to RWD and traction) but on mine it goes same size all the way around. What do you truly think of my setup? decent? good? bad? and why?


i have more to ask but plz help me on suggestions so far....

[wylin]

225width thats pretty small if u running a 18x8.5 wheel its about right if your running a 18x8 oir 18x7.5 width wheel. 225/ 36 is 6.5 inchs roughtly but ur tirewidth and wheel/ rim width are only related by what safe width tires you put on.

Well rims are denoted by Height x Width in inchs' 17inch tall x 8 inchs wide = 17x8

Tires are denoted by metric system markings of their uninflated size in milimeters 225mm width / 40mm side wall height + speed rating s to Z then what size wheel they can fit on. 225/40VR18 is a tire thats 225mm wide, 40mm sidewall, V-speed rating Radal tire that can fit on a 18inch wheel.

u cant tell ur rim width by using tire width. but u can pick safe sizes such denoted by the tire manufactuer.

i dont know becayse u failed to provide tire brand and type, example Michelen Pilot Sport is brand and type(product name). Tire choice effects road noise alot also certain tires are both sporty and very loud (audible).

Tire Pressure effects ride so does your suspension set up. so does side wall height notice i didnt specify 35 or 30 -series tires bellow.

For a BMW 330 i'd use a high quality Wheel in sizes 18x8.5 front and 18x9.0 rear then stagger my tire sizes to 235/40ZR18 and 255/40ZR18 rear using relatively quiet tires like a Pirelli P-Zero Nero, Dunlop SP9000, or Michelen Pilot GT. Those tires have alot of grip but last long and are often used on luxury vehicles such as S-class and 540i.

Then have the car lowered on relatively soft springs and shocks if u have sum qualms about ride Racing Dynamics spring and shock kit and AC snitzer spring and shock kits work well for that. because 330 isnt a sports car its a small luxo car thus i'd want it to ride well.

suspension,wheel, and tire theres too many variables. if it rides fine keep it if it rides to rough for u then thats kinda ur bad.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Sep 5 2002, 08:43 AM-->

[johnny]

wylin, thanks for all your input, you seem very knowledgeable...


The kind of wheels(rims) I have on my BMW are the "M double spoke", which are the optional wheels(I wish I knew the width size - how can I find out or if you have time could you let me know?).

The tires are Dunlop SP9000 (I think, but they are dunlops for sure). They are 225/40 all the way around. I have read other bimmer posts have was told the 235/40 is better to protect the rims on the car since the tires will come out to the edge more rather than the rim exposing itself to road debris. Also, you are right that normally it's like 235 in front and 255 in back. But what can I do about it now? I mean I bought the wheels from BMW with the 225/40s on all four wheels.

I guess nothing really suffers except for a harsher ride and debris chipping onto the rim occasionally. But performance it good b/c I feel it grip the road like glue on tight corners. I wanted to go comfort/luxury but ended up with sposrts tires/traction :lol:

[wylin]

ur tires are probs Dunlop SP8080 or SP9090 which are slighting less grippy/ longer wearing versions of the dunlop SP8000 and SP9000 used by BMW and others for Orginal Equipment. those wheels on the M double spoke are 8' wide and can accomidate a 235 width tire any day. but just wear yours out then change to a staggered 225/40R18 and 235/40R18 (u have 18' right) when u need new tires which will be probs pretty soon. your wheel is too small to mount more then 245 width. 10mm isnt that much of a difference. another good tire for BMW's is Continetal Contisport CZ 2 they are also used by BMW as factory tires and are very quiet.


since dunlop sp8080 and 9090 last about 1-1.5 years u'll be changing them soon so no worries other then budgeting.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Sep 5 2002, 10:18 AM-->

[johnny]

hey thanks again wylin,
I think ur right that my tires are prob SP8080s. SO for sure the wheels on my 18s - M double spoke are 8" wide right? Do you have a link to the specs on my wheels (can't find them).

Anyways, so your saying that 225/40s what I have now on my 18x8s are fine as is right?

So the 235 actually makes no or little difference on the ride? However, I've noticed the 225 allows for the RIMS to kinda stick out of the tires which worries me for chipping the wheels.

so how does 235/40s all the way around sound to you? or 235 front and 245 back?

[wylin]

well their the same wheels u find on 525 and 530i for a certain year that my friend has and their definitely 18x8 or 18x8.5 bmw doesnt make FWD wheels like 18x7 and 18x7.5cuz they dont have FWD cars.

no wider doesnt effect ride but it effects 2 things handling ussually car handles better and 2ndly Freeway tramlining it wider tires get stuck in rain grooves and are a lil squirly on certain surfaces.

I'd go 235/ 245 combo cuz definitely that looks better but u cant rotate tires. Wider in back just plain looks andperforms better. also notice wider tires add a lil weight and cause car to perform mildy worse acceleration wise and gas mileage may drop slightly!

everything has trade offs.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Sep 5 2002, 10:40 AM-->

[johnny]

thanks, i'll go for what you suggested - 235/245 sounds good.

one more thang - sorry I know this is getting old - but what is the recommended tire pressure for my tires? 225/40/18 WOuld you know?

I'm clueless.....

[wylin]

depends on ur tire look on ur tire for its max pressure (its written on the tire) and minus 6-10psi from that then their u go. For that size tire i'd run 32-36psi depending on how u like the ride



<!--EDIT|wylin|Sep 5 2002, 11:09 AM-->

[johnny]

have any recommendations on a good camber/wheel balance/alignment shop(more like a performance shop for street cars).

My civic has extreme negative camber in the rear so I need a good shop around So. Cal. Thanks.

[wylin]

johnsons allignment but i denno where they are also, wheelwarehouse talk 2 richard chan he'll help u out. those 2 specialize in lowered cars.

WW is 60$

johnsons is 90$

[wylin]

oki on sidewalls will was wrong its :

235 is the metric width 235mm @ 25.4mm per inch = 9.25" wide
50 mean 50% ratio tire width to tire height (rim edge to tire tread). 235 x .5 = 117.5mm, 117.5 mm = 4.63" whereas 215 x .5 = 107.5mm or 4.23"
calc 215/50/17 tire width = 8.46"
tire diameter = 4.23 + 17 + 4.23 or 25.46"
circumference = 25.46 x 3.14 = 79.94"
calc 235/50/17 tire width = 9.25"
tire diameter = 4.63 + 17 + 4.63 or 26.26"
circumference = 26.26 x 3.14 = 82.46"
Summary both tire being 50/17 the 235 tire is roughly 3/4 " wider and 3/4" taller, rolling it 1 complete revolution, the 235 would travel 2.5" farther (82.46" vs 79.94") or 3.15% farther each time the wheel rotates
3.15% would likely effect ABC and traction control significantly, and speedometer error (actual 103.15 mph would read 100 mph)
50 tires are easy since adding 1" width adds 1" diameter (or wheel height)

[johnny]

^ that went way over my head bro


so does that mean my 225s are fit to my 18s? Or just barely fit?

Just tell me that I'm fine with my current setup dammit! :angry: :P

[wylin]

ur fine w/ it if its on the wheel it fits 18x8 wheel can mount a 225-245 width tire safely so ur set!



<!--EDIT|wylin|Sep 5 2002, 12:30 PM-->

[johnny]

I checked my tires and they are not dunlops... they are Pirelli SP7000s.

Have any input on those? I like them, only complaint is that they tend to pull the car to the right - in other words, they are really sensitive to the road pattern.

[wylin]

P7000S are oem version of P7000 super sport they are ok their a lil weak grip wise and their pattern works well in rain but not snow. Their an older design dating back 10 1993 or 1994 and pirelli has never bothered to replace them.

Thats ur allignment if ther car pulls go get an allignment. Consistent pull to one side always means either allignement is shot or sumthing bent and the allignment is jacked also. Either or!

[johnny]

whats the diff b/t the OEM and super sports?

the alignment thing I took it back to the dealer and they aligned it but it made very little difference. The car still tends to steer to the right slightly. I'm hoping the 235/245 I plan on getting will reduce road sensitivity and track the car straight no matter the road pattern.

[wylin]

jack shit is the difference just a letter denoting its an OEM version versus Retail Sale version.

hmm thats odd also wider tires will make that tendency worse and make allignment problems seem worse. another thing is maybe one of ur wheels is bent take ur fronts to a tire shop have them balance the wheels and see if the weights are off or if its bent. Sounds like a bent or off weight wheel then if allignment doesnt fix it. Remember i said its either allignment or sumthings bent well then probs the former!

yay fun dam LA roads bend wheels like nothing. Did it happen all the sudden or was it always like this?

[johnny]

It's been like this eversince I drive off the lot after the purchase.

I'm beginning to think it's a misbalanced wheel or something(does that even make sense) cause I'd hate to think the dealer sold me wheels that were brand new but bent.

[wylin]

probs a 2$ wheel weight common problem is mis balanced wheels its 10-15$ fix goto a good tire shop.

[mrazntre]

jacked up camber:


due to the design of the double wishbone suspension, any change of height on the suspension alters the degree of the wishbone. imagine an equilateral triangle, then shorten the hypotenuse (i.e. the lowering springs).. the angle changes because the X and Y lines must now shift inwards towards the ends of the hypotenuse. that's what happened to your rear suspension. Simply by getting an alignment will not fix your problem. You can try to use crash bolts to offset the angle, but that will only work if there is only slight negative camber. That's the reason why they make camber correction kits. Basically the Y lines on the hypothetical triangle are shortened (in this case i believe) to bring the triangle back down to the square ~90 degrees that it was previously.

bottom line: to properly fix your negative camber, you need a camber correction kit. then you get your alignment afterward.

[ren28]

If you have jacked up camber, you can slot your struts before doing the alignment. That's the ghetto way of getting out of buying a camber kit. Don't get tires that are too big because they will jack up your acceleration both in terms of weight and gear ratios. People routinely buy final gears with more reduction to lower ET's for dragging but you'd be doing the opposite if you get larger diameter tires.

[wylin]

note to mrazntre and ren28 hez talkin bout his stock 330i BMW w/ 18' dealer wheel package that is stock height and runs 225/40ZR18 tires on a 18x8 wheel.

[johnny]

^ wylin, I think they were referring to the civic rear camber I posted earlier, but good looking out ;)

[wylin]

yeh they were maybe u should get a vietnamese car? no camber problems and one man power motor sumtimes comes w/ AK47?

jk