This month's Details! Offensive article

[kboy75]

This month's Details magazine has an article on page 52 entitled:

GAY OR ASIAN?

[paraphrase by my friend] in which a smug author depicts the differences (or lack thereof) between feminine Asian men and homosexual men in America. The author also compares Asian men to "samurais," uses the phrase "grasshopper," claims Asian men like it "general tso style," choke up "on the chopsticks" and that Asian men have the "perfect ladylike fingers for kendo"

I'm trying to find the article now.. here's a scan:

[mr. x]

wtf wtf

what is details magazine about anyway?

[moJo]

could they be any more uncreative and lame? omg, this is hokey shit. sashimi-smooth? bonsai ass? kendo stick? and of course, a last samurai reference. :mad: i can't believe i'm seeing this BS. :frown:

[moJo]

wtf wtf

what is details magazine about anyway?
details is a men's mag. it's like GQ, i think.

[mr. x]

if anything i think mr. article has tendencies

[rice cracker]

Whoa. That is just unreal. When a have some time I'll look for contact information to write a letter to the editor of Details. Geez, way to rub the emasculated Asian male stereotype into the faces of thousands of readers. And so gleefully.

[kboy75]

Details was one of the first fun "men's magazine's" and is not as bubblegum as say, Maxim, but more like a swankier GQ... but overall the mag sucks... it has for years... and now that i've seen this, my opinion of Details has sunk much lower.

[kboy75]

mailing address of Details:

Corporate Communications
The Condé Nast Publications
4 Times Square
New York, NY 10036

212-286-2860

magpr@condenast.com

[>:^|]

Details is a Conde Nast Publication. Conde Nast's magazines include Architectural Digest, Vanity Fair, Gourmet, the New Yorker, Wired and many others.

http://condenet.com/contacts.html

[BigLew]

So what's this ass trying to say? That it's hard to distinguish if an Asian guy is gay just because he's Asian?

[SunWuKong]

hah, the author must have dated an Asian guy and then he cheated on her or something.

[BigLew]

hah, the author must have dated an Asian guy and then he cheated on her or something.
That's the thing with people who have so few choices dating someone of a particular ethnicity, one person defines everyone else. If a white chick dates some white guy and he cheats on her, it's just that guy is an asshole. If she has one experiance with an Asian guy and the same thing happens, it becomes all Asian guys are assholes. I had an experience like this with a Mexican girl once...

[krome]

Wow, this is so shockingly enraging, I feel chills and my stomach turning. :eek:

So, we're "inscrutable, "Americaaaan"-wannabe, effeminate, baby-chested, lady-boy fingered, bonsai-*ssed queens????"

Can we be America's d*ckless bych anymore?

*THUD*

Anyone hear that? I think AMs just hit rock-bottom in this country! This is just getting beyond ridiculous! I can't even IMAGINE them having the nerve to do a write-up like this about Blacks or Hispanics!

I'd really like to knock the teeth outta the WM who drew this up! WHO THE FVCK IS WHITNEY McNALLY??? :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I have a lotta those features >_<

[AngryABCGirl]

Does any girl other me find this article extremely offensive but find the qualities rather attractive?

[BigLew]

I have a lotta those features >_<
Yeah but so do alot of guys from any race it's not fair to associate those images exclusively with asian men.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Does any girl other me find this article extremely offensive but find the qualities rather attractive?

Yea seriously. I'm proud of my baby chest and girly hands and fingers. Nothing wrong with being hair/odor free and having a fast metabolism. But I think the problem is that society on the whole sees this as 'unmasculine' and promotes the negativity associated with it.

[Chester]

The "Gay or [X]" thing has been a recurring feature in Details. They've lampooned all sorts of groups and the whole thing, fundamentally, relies upon exploitation of stereotypes.

Insofar as I can remember, we're talking about an equal-opportunity-offender sort of situation.

[krome]

^ If that's true, let's see some of the other examples, then?

If not, then this IS fvcking WAR! I have never been this insulted in my life in a mainstream mag!

And as for the possible "positivity" of any of these stereotypes - I'd say our current AF outmarriage stats should tell us that the net effect is highly-negative for us with most women, Asian or not. And clearly, this was simply intended as a HUGE DISS to AMs, regardless...

[Banana]

Some people just need to get the same curbing death in American History X.

Are we going to get into more of the "yea, they make fun of everyone equally" bullshit again only to get it shot down...again?

[Chester]

^ If that's true, let's see some of the other examples, then?
As I said...I'll take a look at my back issues and see if I can put up some scans. I actually have a life and can't run home to scan old magazines in the space of several minutes.
If not, then this IS fvcking WAR! I have never been this insulted in my life in a mainstream mag!
You obviously don't read magazines all that much.
And clearly, this was simply intended as a HUGE DISS to AMs, regardless...
Before you go off in a quixotic rage, maybe you should actually see that which is ostensibly enraging you...as well as examples of what they've done before in the same mold.

Or, of course, you could just make gross assumptions and go bonkers before you get any pertinent information at all.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Is it also just me, or is this just as equally (if not more) insulting to the gay/lesbian/bisexual community as it is to Asian males? First of all, for many of us as Asian males to feel insulted by this, we would actually also have to have bought into the idea that being gay is 'inferior'. Although personally, I feel insulted simply because the intended portrayal of both gays and Asian men is negative in the first place and the whole purpose of the article is to mock both groups.

[Chester]

Is it also just me, or is this just as equally (if not more) insulting to the gay/lesbian/bisexual community as it is to Asian males? First of all, for many of us as Asian males to feel insulted by this, we would actually also have to have bought into the idea that being gay is 'inferior'. Although personally, I feel insulted simply because the intended portrayal of both gays and Asian men is negative in the first place and the whole purpose of the article is to mock both groups.
Have you read any of them?

Obviously, if anyone was to take offense, it would probably be the homosexual community as it's "Gay or [X]?" instead of "[X] or Asian?"

As I said before, they've gone through a variety of other groups, so unless you think they're trying to insinuate that everyone is gay, I wouldn't take this so seriously.

Anyway...I haven't seen the newest one (passed up the newest issue yesterday), but I'll see if I can post some scans of the old ones I do have. I would suggest that folks actually understand what these "articles" were before going into indignant mode.

[moJo]

Does any girl other me find this article extremely offensive but find the qualities rather attractive?
hmmm, i do like hairless and lanky. tho i'm not into high-fashion guys.
Yea seriously. I'm proud of my baby chest and girly hands and fingers. Nothing wrong with being hair/odor free and having a fast metabolism.
hellooooooo, hube. :wink: :tongue:
But I think the problem is that society on the whole sees this as 'unmasculine' and promotes the negativity associated with it.
yeah. what he said. :frown:

[AngryABCGirl]

Actually, I thought the outmarriage stats as posted by Ali-Baba Incorporated half a year or so ago prove that there actually is insignificant difference in the outmarriage rates between AA males and females, with the exception of Korean Americans and Filipino Americans. I'll hafta look back into this, it's been a while...I realize that dating-wise, this might be different. But we are talking about marriage here, yes?

Intra-ethnic marriages have gone up too expotentially in the last decade between different Asian ethnic groups in the US.

[BigLew]

So they've done a "Gay or Black" or "Gay or Hispanic" or "Gay or Caucasian"?

[kitty]

I would be curious to know if that was the article (i.e., a one page photo spread) or if someone waxes philosophically in some text?

Also, Chester, I would very much be interested in some back issue articles if you get a chance. Thx :)

Either way though, that kind of off-colour racialized 'humour' shouldn't be tolerated, not only because it makes Asian men seem effiminate and desexualized, but it also plays off of a lot of negative homosexual stereotypes. Overall, if it's a single article or a series of articles, it shouldn't be tolerated, since it obviously pokes fun at the oppressed of American society.

I'll be sending a snail mail letter to the address posted earlier. I'll post it here if you guys want to use it as a form letter.

[Chester]

So they've done a "Gay or Black" or "Gay or Hispanic" or "Gay or Caucasian"?
Essentially. Well, no...as is always the case, they don't do "Caucasian," they do particular ethnicities or subcultures that fall under Caucasian.

Which, of course, is lame in that they group Asians together.

But while I find that annoying and somewhat offensive, it's a far cry from specifically targetting Asians for ridicule, which they haven't done.

[kitty]

^ If that's true, let's see some of the other examples, then?

If not, then this IS fvcking WAR! I have never been this insulted in my life in a mainstream mag!

And as for the possible "positivity" of any of these stereotypes - I'd say our current AF outmarriage stats should tell us that the net effect is highly-negative for us with most women, Asian or not. And clearly, this was simply intended as a HUGE DISS to AMs, regardless...

duuude... chill out. it's a crappy article, but it IS *only* Details mag. Let's put this into perspective a little.

[kitty]

Essentially. Well, no...as is always the case, they don't do "Caucasian," they do particular ethnicities or subcultures that fall under Caucasian.

Which, of course, is lame in that they group Asians together.

But while I find that annoying and somewhat offensive, it's a far cry from specifically targetting Asians for ridicule, which they haven't done.

Well, just because you are an equal opportunity hater, doesn't mean you should be tolerated... I mean I think outrage is still justified...

[VV o n g B a]

gotta love them men's magazines...i didn't think my respect for them could fall much further, but oh i just love being proved wrong.

[Chester]

I would be curious to know if that was the article (i.e., a one page photo spread) or if someone waxes philosophically in some text?
It's not an article...it's just one of those pithy, photo-based "case study" things. Immediately and obviously identifiable as a farce.
Also, Chester, I would very much be interested in some back issue articles if you get a chance.
No problem. If my flatbed scanner is still hooked up, I can maybe put some up tonight. Good thing I'm a freak who saves all his magazines.
Either way though, that kind of off-colour racialized 'humour' shouldn't be tolerated, not only because it makes Asian men seem effiminate and desexualized, but it also plays off of a lot of negative homosexual stereotypes.
Personally, I would be more concerned about the latter than the former.

[Chester]

Well, just because you are an equal opportunity hater, doesn't mean you should be tolerated... I mean I think outrage is still justified...
I don't disagree with that. But it should be informed outrage rather than knee-jerk outrage that's based upon a third-party "report" on something you've never seen.

Furthermore, as someone who has seen a few of these Details spreads, I think the outrage should be more in line with how you feel -- that stereotype-based humor is offensive, period. Because, if you're basing your objection upon the opinion that they singled out Asians, then you're basing your objection upon a fallacy.

[BigLew]

You know I'm pretty wary on trying to decide what's racially offensive or not that commentary is blatant there was no line walking here the line was crossed and obliterated several times. "Shrimp balls or shaved balls", "Ladyboy fingers for gripping a Kendo stick." "Bonsai ass" "sashimi smooth chest" Give me fuckin break. That is all Asian.

[Faithless]

hah, the author must have dated an Asian guy and then he cheated on her or something.
I think I read somewhere that Whitney Mcnally is regarded as some antoginist.

Comment of the article from another site:

http://chrisafer.com/bbbs.htm

March 17, 2004
The Devil is in the Details

I haven't had a black sheep of the day in a while. Some may think I'm being lazy. Honestly I was just extending my celebration of no name-calling week, bitches.

Today's object of shunning is Details magazine.

Forget that America's next Sonny Bono, Nick Lachey is the April issue's cover boy. (You know he's going to run for political office once his sitcom flops--how long can one make a career out of rolling his eyes? Just remember to be careful when you're skiing, Nick.)

When I flip to page 52, I come across the following:

(Offensive pic.)

"GAY OR ASIAN?

One cruises for chicken; the other takes it General Tso-style. Whether you're into shrimp balls or shaved balls, entering the dragon requires imperial tastes. So choke up on your chopsticks, and make sure your labels showing. Study hard, Grasshopper: A sharp eye will always take home the plumpest eel."

Wow, I didn't know it was an either/or thing. I'll be sure to tell my gay and Asian friends to get off the damn fence and pick a side already. They're almost as bad as those greedy bisexuals.

I think this also proves that most western people's contact with "Asian culture" can fit on a take-out menu. Oh, and watching the white man on Kung-Fu.

Sounds like it's some sort of running gag with Details magazine (which is considered some metrosexual mag. Previous articles --
* Gay or British,
* Gay or Preppy.

[achtungbaby]

Fucking ridiculous.

[BigLew]

http://www.angryasianman.com/angry.html

Angry Asian man has something to say.

[thaite]

wtf wtf

what is details magazine about anyway?

It's not on the same plane as GQ, it's an even crappier version of FHM or Maxim, if you can imagine that.

[kboy75]

I found that Conde Nest is not responsible for publishing Details Magazine any longer. It was relaunched by Fairchild Publications.

William Wackerman is the Publisher of Details.

The contact info is:

New York
7 West 34th Street
New York, NY 10001
(212) 630-4000

Washington, DC
National Press Building
529 14th Street, NW
Suite 954
Washington, DC, 20045
(202) 639-6900

Los Angeles
6300 Wilshire Blvd
Suite 720
Los Angeles, CA 90025
(323) 951-1800

[Chester]

It's not on the same plane as GQ, it's an even crappier version of FHM or Maxim, if you can imagine that.
I'd agree with the first part, pretty strongly, but vehemently disagree with the latter. FHM and Maxim make no effort to disguise the fact that their magazines are aimed toward the monkey demographic.

Details actually makes an effort to publish real articles and essays. The level of writing is pretty underwhelming compared to GQ and Esquire, but the gap between it and those two is much narrower than the gap between it and the likes of FHM/Maxim.

And, ever since it was relaunched, it curiously has had the most interesting photography out of all the men's magazines.

[krome]

You can all let your thoughts be known to the chief editor here at:
dan.peres@fairchildpub.com
(Thanks Tracy!)

Now, if someone gets Whitey McNally's email too, PLEASE POST IT!

[missmeow]

Does any girl other me find this article extremely offensive but find the qualities rather attractive?


Me! Me! Me!

A guy with the income of a queer, the fashion sense of a queer, the impeccable hygiene of a queer, etc, without actually being queer sounds pretty fantabulous if I do say so myself.


I used to read Details waaaay back in the day when it was stapled and was like 15 x15' (HUGE). It went downhill very quickly when Anka Radokovich (sp?) left. Her articles cracked me up big time. It's just too trendy and aberzombie these days.

[krome]

Woaaa, Whitey McNally sounds like a female size-queen! And still single, fellas! :rolleyes:

She also authored Hollywood's Biggest Manhoods (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/HOLLYWOOD.S%20BIGGEST%20MANHOODS)! Surprise, surprise... :rolleyes:

Whitney McNally ('99), Assistant, Details
~1994 SAB Workshop~

Recepient of Mae Wien Award in 1994,and 1990

I believe her email (http://www.fwaam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4624&start=10) is Whitney.McNally@fairchildpub.com

[TB4000]

Me! Me! Me!

A guy with the income of a queer, the fashion sense of a queer, the impeccable hygiene of a queer, etc, without actually being queer sounds pretty fantabulous if I do say so myself.


I used to read Details waaaay back in the day when it was stapled and was like 15 x15' (HUGE). It went downhill very quickly when Anka Radokovich (sp?) left. Her articles cracked me up big time. It's just too trendy and aberzombie these days.
I still have that one with Gwen Stefani on the front, the one that featured Amsterdam and the red light district...it was somewhat colorful for being a men's magazine, though.

[Chester]

Now, if someone gets Whitey McNally's...
Gee, how clever. Next thing you know, you'll be penning gems like "Chinky McChang" and "Nigger O'Washington."

[krome]

^ Takes 2 to tango. I assume if she can dish it, she can take it? I certainly don't use those puns carte blanche, though.

And is "YT" really that bad, anyways? Certainly nowhere near the caliber of "cracker," etc. And I've heard many use it here and elsewhere before (not that that makes it right). Um, missmeow? What say you?

[hooligan]

Me! Me! Me!

A guy with the income of a queer, the fashion sense of a queer, the impeccable hygiene of a queer, etc, without actually being queer sounds pretty fantabulous if I do say so myself.


I used to read Details waaaay back in the day when it was stapled and was like 15 x15' (HUGE). It went downhill very quickly when Anka Radokovich (sp?) left. Her articles cracked me up big time. It's just too trendy and aberzombie these days.

so what's the difference between a stereotypical gay asian male and a asian metrosexual (besides sexual orientation)?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

so what's the difference between a stereotypical gay asian male and a asian metrosexual (besides sexual orientation)?

Basically what is categorized as "masculine" and "feminine" at least largely in our society refers to traits, both physical and cultural, which seemingly go against the natural or learned traits of much of Asian culture. Masculine guys don't keep their mouths shut, don't focus on "wussy" stuff like education or math problems, are tall and buff and not "thin" or "lean" or "small-framed". We would be kidding ourselves if we said that Asian culture didn't place more value on such elements as education and softspokenness, as well as the scientific fact that Asians, regardless of whether the factors are dietary/lifestyle-linked or genetic, are on the whole smaller in physical size; yet the problem once again is that society has pigeonholed men without these socially constructed requirements for masculinity as "gay" or looking "gay", i.e., men not as tall, men not as wide/buff, men not as hairy, men not as loud or assertive, men without rough thick hands or fingers, etc. Furthermore, being "gay" is often equated with being "inferior" in a society that defines being "male" and "masculine" as being superior to being "feminine". Such is the patriarchal environment that surrounds us.

When it comes to discrimination and casual slurs or disparaging remarks, the homosexual/bisexual community is up against an even steeper battle in my opinion. At the very least, remarks relating to race or ethnicity are somewhat taboo or discouraged, yet walk onto any campus and you will notice many individuals from all types of different backgrounds putting down gays either consciously or unconsciously without further thought, spewing random lines such as "oh that's so gay", "you're fuckin' gay man", etc. I admit that I have been guilty of this much more than a few times during my college career.

[Chester]

^ Takes 2 to tango. I assume if she can dish it, she can take it? I certainly don't use those puns carte blanche, though.
I'd imagine so. I guess...to me...whether or not she can take it is beside the point and, in fact, almost diametrically opposed to your point.
And is "YT" really that bad, anyways?
Hah, well...yeah, not really. I use it from time to time. But...
1) If I dwell on it, even jokey use is totally inappropriate.
2) I think it's totally inappropriate when used within a statement that is basically arguing against racism. It's just...too discordant.

Basically, I agree that it's "not that bad," and certainly white people do not receive that word the way that a Chinese would receive "chink" or a black person would receive "nigger."

That said...I think, given that we are trying to argue against racism, it's best that we avoid indulging in it, even when our indulgences come in terms that are "not that bad."

I mean...I think arguments against racism are much more convincing when there isn't the taint of "You can't make fun of me because it's wrong, but I can make fun of you because of the fundamental race power structure in this country" sort of double-standard.

Anyway...I don't mean to bite your head off over it. Just wanted to make that point.

[missmeow]

Gee, how clever. Next thing you know, you'll be penning gems like "Chinky McChang" and "Nigger O'Washington."

But her pen name really is Whitey McNally??

[missmeow]

so what's the difference between a stereotypical gay asian male and a asian metrosexual (besides sexual orientation)?

According to the article, nothing.

[Chester]

But her pen name really is Whitey McNally??
No...it's "Whitney" and, presumably, her real name.

[SunWuKong]

But while I find that annoying and somewhat offensive, it's a far cry from specifically targetting Asians for ridicule, which they haven't done.


ahh.... hello?
how do you define "target"? they may not have singled out Asians as a racial group to ridicule, if they ridicule a slew of other groups as well, but the fact that they make fun of "everybody" just means that they target various different groups, including targetting Asians.

and i'd be really interested in them targetting black guys as a racial group and compare them to being gay. until then, i see absolutely no equal-opportunity offending whatsoever.

[SunWuKong]

Gee, how clever. Next thing you know, you'll be penning gems like "Chinky McChang" and "Nigger O'Washington."

if you think that's bad, then it's very interesting to me that the first post you made in this thread was to defend Details instead of pointing out how insulting it is.

hey you know, maybe krome was just being an equal-opportunity offender. i'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to call someone "blacky" or "chinky" given the right situation. shouldn't you be defending him, too?

[Chester]

but the fact that they make fun of "everybody" just means that they target various different groups, including targetting Asians.
Right. Or, in other words, they do not specifically target Asians. Or, to be more clear that I meant "specifically" in the "limited to" sense, they do not only target Asians.

Eh...I dunno. I guess I see a difference there, though I can certainly see how the base offense is still there. I guess my thing is that I don't get offended by people who offend everyone.
if you think that's bad, then it's very interesting to me that the first post you made in this thread was to defend Details instead of pointing out how insulting it is.
Well...
1) I didn't use any ethnic slurs in what I posted. And that sort of thing was what I was objecting to in the post you quote.
2) I wasn't really defending Details (or, at least, that wasn't really my intention). I was just trying to explain that this wasn't a one-off thing (which would be them specifically targetting Asians), but just the latest in a series that is fundamentally offensive to most anyone who finds these things offensive.

Basically, it seemed that people thought that this was a one-time-deal that implied that Asians are particularly "gay," when that is not the case. If people are offended by the series as a whole, I'm not going to really argue with them on that -- I just wanted to make sure that people were basing their opinions on more information than was contained in the initial post to this thread.

[SunWuKong]

by the way, i've deleted all posts having to do with outmarriage rates amongst Asian Americans. that's for another thread. and if any of you start that thread, it better be a thread in the Sex & Health forum. i don't want that crap in the Rant Room.

[Chester]

hey you know, maybe krome was just being an equal-opportunity offender. i'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to call someone "blacky" or "chinky" given the right situation. shouldn't you be defending him, too?
I wasn't defending Details for their "article," merely clarifying the nature of what it is.

And if you go back to my post, while it was sarcastic, I was basically raising the question of whether or not he would use words like "Chinky" and "Nigger" the same way he used "Whitey." My guess is that he wouldn't. If I'm wrong, then I'm sure he, himself, can point that out.

Of course, I imagine you know all of this already otherwise you'd be criticizing him for being racist...

[SunWuKong]

1) I didn't use any ethnic slurs in what I posted. And that sort of thing was what I was objecting to in the post you quote.

that's not the point.

i find it interesting that you would object to something insulting that is racially-motivated while it is in reference to an author that ridiculed Asian men, but you have no urge to object to Asian men being portrayed as stereotypically effeminine and even gay.

what's with the double standard?

2) I wasn't really defending Details (or, at least, that wasn't really my intention). I was just trying to explain that this wasn't a one-off thing (which would be them specifically targetting Asians), but just the latest in a series that is fundamentally offensive to most anyone who finds these things offensive.

and if we are offended by these things simply because it is offensive to Asian people, while not being offended by a parallel that does not target Asian people, what exactly is so bad about that? i really don't understand. can you explain? are we somehow lesser beings for it? i'm not implying that we ought to find humour in something that ridicules other races while we be insulted at something that ridicules us, because there's a big difference between laughing at something and feeling neutral toward it.

[SunWuKong]

I wasn't defending Details for their "article," merely clarifying the nature of what it is.

right... and the purpose of your clarification is so that people would not be offended for what you see as the "wrong" reasons, which basically means that you find it unjustified for some people to be offended by it... so what is your definition of "defending" Details again...? because your clarification sure as hell seemed like a defense of Details to me.

but hey, don't get me wrong, you are allowed to do that if you like.

[Chester]

that's not the point.
Perhaps not to you. That was, however, my point.
i find it interesting that you would object to something insulting that is racially-motivated while it is in reference to an author that ridiculed Asian men, but you have no urge to object to Asian men being portrayed as stereotypically effeminine and even gay.

what's with the double standard?
Good point. I haven't read the latest Details yet, so I don't know how offended I would be by it. And that was part of my annoyance -- people getting upset over something that they hadn't yet seen with their own eyes.

Insofar as my objecting to the Details feature...simply because I don't voice objection to something doesn't mean I accept it. I certainly didn't defend it as you previously characterized.

That said...I found aspects of the previous features in the same series to be amusing and those were based on gross stereotypes as well, so I figure, in some senses, turnabout is fair play. But perhaps that's just me and I realize that and, accordingly, didn't object to anyone objecting to the Details feature -- all I did was object to making conclusions based on a lack of first-hand knowledge and tried to give more information about it so that any objections made would be made with greater knowledge.

On the topic of my objection to Krome's use of "whitey" and double standards, it was double standards that I was precisely objecting to. To say that Krome has the right to use an epithet like "whitey" in the process of condemning racism is nothing short of a great example of what a double standard is.
and if we are offended by these things simply because it is offensive to Asian people, while not being offended by a parallel that does not target Asian people, what exactly is so bad about that?
Nobody's going to be condemned to inner rings of Hell for it, but I find it to be hypocritical. And while I don't know how to assign a Badness Magnitude Rating to it, I do find hypocrisy, in general, to be bad.
i really don't understand. can you explain? are we somehow lesser beings for it?
I wouldn't put it quite so dramatically, but I do consider hypocrisy to be something that erodes the integrity of anyone's argument. I don't feel that strongly about the Details feature, but if someone does, then more power to them and I hope that they phrase their argument as intelligently and compellingly as possible. In order to do so, they would need to remove blatantly hypocritical statements from their argument and that's what I was trying to point out.
i'm not implying that we ought to find humour in something that ridicules other races while we be insulted at something that ridicules us, because there's a big difference between laughing at something and feeling neutral toward it.
I see your point there. (Though...in situations that don't favor "us," don't we generally argue that neutrality implies acceptance and perhaps even endorsement?). I guess, when it comes to the opinions of people posting in YW, I feel more compulsion to point out logical flaws that I perceive, because I agree, in a general way, and would like for "group positions" statements to be as compelling as possible. Sort of like a Devil's Advocate, but not...more like a really annoying and anal editor.

Hah...next time maybe I'll use <editor="anal"></editor> tags.

[Chester]

right... and the purpose of your clarification is so that people would not be offended for what you see as the "wrong" reasons, which basically means that you find it unjustified for some people to be offended by it... so what is your definition of "defending" Details again...? because your clarification sure as hell seemed like a defense of Details to me.
I can see how that would be suggested but I never, ever endorsed what they did or say that it was acceptable. I just put it into context because that context exists.

Basically, some people seemed to be under the impression that this was a one-time deal that specifically targetted Asians. I think that the argument against a one-time pop like that would be different from an argument you would mount against a continuous series that also happened to target Asians.

If letters/messages were to go out from YW members and those letters betrayed ignorance of that fact, then I think it would weaken the argument by making the letter-writer look sloppy and ill-informed. So...I thought I'd try to fill in some blank spaces.

And while I'm being such a Helpful Harry, I'll see if I can pick up the Details issue in question at a 7-11 on the way home. Hopefully my flatbed scanner feels like working tonight.

[kasia]

That's the thing with people who have so few choices dating someone of a particular ethnicity, one person defines everyone else. If a white chick dates some white guy and he cheats on her, it's just that guy is an asshole. If she has one experiance with an Asian guy and the same thing happens, it becomes all Asian guys are assholes. I had an experience like this with a Mexican girl once...

hence the term "hater".

let her write her articles. it's her only pasttime on saturday nights. poor thing.

[Bhodi_Li]

http://www.koarecords.com/details_asian.jpg

Yeah, this is pretty insulting. It wasn't as bad as I thought from reading this thread, but it does piss me off.

[yoMAMA]

Wow, can't this get anymore blantantly RACIST with a captial R?

definitely write to the parent corporation, and all the other major news outlets, and see what happens.

Maybe even taking legal action if feasible?

We definitely can't take this shit!

:mad:

[Chester]

Picked up the issue in question earlier. TWAIN is all mucked up on my computer and I got diverted by PartyPoker, so I'll try and remember to just take pictures of the pages and upload tomorrow (along with two previous in the series).

But, in the meantime, I'll just say that it's absurdly offensive. My personal reaction is that it's too juvenile, stupid, and boringly unfunny to be truly offensive, but that's just me. Y'all are going to have a field day teeing off on it...

[pretense78]

http://www.koarecords.com/details_asian.jpg

Yeah, this is pretty insulting. It wasn't as bad as I thought from reading this thread, but it does piss me off.
He looks vaguely like the guy that used to be on Angel and Babylon 5.

[krome]

Who were the other groups Whitey made gay comparisons to? "Eurotrash" and who else?

[kitty]

Maybe even taking legal action if feasible?


legal action? I'm not sure that it's breaking any laws...

[Banana]

On the other hand, did anyone catch the episode of the Asian guy who needed metrosexual help on "Queer Eye" yesterday?

I mean, that Asian guy was anything *but* gay. Not to mention he was pretty damn tall. 6'3" if I recall.

[SunWuKong]

Maybe even taking legal action if feasible?

no, they should have the freedom of speech. even if it is feasible, i would disagree with taking legal actions.

[kasia]

no, they should have the freedom of speech. even if it is feasible, i would disagree with taking legal actions.

taking legal action, btw, is an exercise of your 1st amendment guarantee of free speech.

and i think there may be possible legal theories that we can act on. there always are - but the matter is whether or not it is worth it.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

taking legal action, btw, is an exercise of your 1st amendment guarantee of free speech.

and i think there may be possible legal theories that we can act on. there always are - but the matter is whether or not it is worth it.

Like seeking compensation for emotional damages or unequal treatment and discrimination? Obviously this would be hard to prove, but then again, I know nothing about law ^^;;

[Faithless]

Like seeking compensation for emotional damages or unequal treatment and discrimination? Obviously this would be hard to prove, but then again, I know nothing about law ^^;;
And what would be the precedent?

[azncowboy]

Wow, Details always been pretty intelligent, and relatively PC.. sometimes (rarely) they even used Asian models for the layouts

[azncowboy]

Even if they made fun of other ethnic groups, which i don't think they have or will, it's not an excuse.

[krome]

We have to target her, her editor and perhaps most importantly, THEIR ADVERTISERS.

For example, here is a nice reply I received for a complaint sent about the re-airing of Banzai! on Comedy Central:
--------------
Re: Coors Mail (SPJ2)

Dear ----:

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us regarding
the airing of our commercials on Comedy Central. We want to provide
you with some information that may help.

Coors is able to select a timeframe in which we want our commercials to
air. We have purchased advertising space on Comedy Central; however,
we did not purchase any airtime during the Banzai show.

If you have other questions or comments, please contact us again either
by e-mail at coors.com or by calling the Coors Consumer Hotline:
1-800-642-6116. We are available weekdays from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Mountain
Time, and the staff will welcome your comments.

Sincerely,

Sean P. Jeffers
Consumer Information Sr. Representative
Consumer Relations
consumers@coors.com
--------------
So, they need to know they will lose business and dollars off bigoted "humor" like this. Targeting advertisers is what got Banzai! off the air initially - and what ultimately works most. We have to make it a simple business call for them - a no-brainer.

I know Details must have a ton of advertisers - so let's work on posting a list of them here, please? If you have a copy of that issue, please post some of their emails here.

[yoMAMA]

duuude... chill out. it's a crappy article, but it IS *only* Details mag. Let's put this into perspective a little.

Yeah, i agree.

Now, if they do the article in new yorker, then there's seriously cause for concern.

BTW, i love new yorker :biggrin:

[yoMAMA]

We have to target her, her editor and perhaps most importantly, THEIR ADVERTISERS.

For example, here is a nice reply I received for a complaint sent about the re-airing of Banzai! on Comedy Central:
--------------
Re: Coors Mail (SPJ2)

Dear ----:

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us regarding
the airing of our commercials on Comedy Central. We want to provide
you with some information that may help.

Coors is able to select a timeframe in which we want our commercials to
air. We have purchased advertising space on Comedy Central; however,
we did not purchase any airtime during the Banzai show.

If you have other questions or comments, please contact us again either
by e-mail at coors.com or by calling the Coors Consumer Hotline:
1-800-642-6116. We are available weekdays from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Mountain
Time, and the staff will welcome your comments.

Sincerely,

Sean P. Jeffers
Consumer Information Sr. Representative
Consumer Relations
consumers@coors.com
--------------
So, they need to know they will lose business and dollars off bigoted "humor" like this. Targeting advertisers is what got Banzai! off the air initially - and what ultimately works most. We have to make it a simple business call for them - a no-brainer.

I know Details must have a ton of advertisers - so let's work on posting a list of them here, please? If you have a copy of that issue, please post some of their emails here.

Good plan!

[Chester]

Who were the other groups Whitey made gay comparisons to? "Eurotrash" and who else?
I've seen...
"Gay or Guido" (Italian American)
"Gay or English"
"Gay or Political Front-Runner" (Howard Dean, basically)

The main differentiation is that Asians seem to be the first group they've "profiled" with such a broad swath -- as an entire ethnicity, that is.


Oh, another thing: I flipped through a bunch of Details back-issues to find a couple examples of previous examples, and I noticed that Details seems to have a lot of gay-related content. It had never occurred to me before, but it seems as if every issue has at least one or two articles that have something to do with being gay.

I kind of wonder if they're sort of steering their magazine in that direction. Which makes me wonder if they consider the whole "Gay or [X]" thing to be some inside joke.

Anyway...this taking a picture of the pages thing isn't going to work. I'll have to see if I can fix my scanner tonight. I promise not to log onto PartyPoker until I do...

[azncowboy]

Yeah , they've always had a lot of gay readers, it's always been a pretty urban/"metro" kind of mag. Not to mention the pretty boys and pretty clothes

[Chester]

Yeah , they've always had a lot of gay readers, it's always been a pretty urban/"metro" kind of mag. Not to mention the pretty boys and pretty clothes
That seems to be the direction that they took when they re-launched...I guess they always struck me as being more metro than macho, but perhaps they're just trying to make sure they have appeal to gay readers.

[etcj]

After contacting their offices directly, Ben (http://www.xanga.com/item.aspx?user=hyperlogue&tab=weblogs&uid=74322072)from Xanga posted the latest set of contacts in regards to the "Gay or Asian?" spread:

(whitney.mcnally@fairchildpub.com)Diana Bendasset, Managing Editor
Details Magazine [Fairchild Publishing, a Conde Nast Company]
diana.bendasset@fairchildpub.com

you can also write to the guy who was in charge of the spread directly: whitney.mcnally@fairchildpub.com[/email][email="whitney.mcnally@fairchildpub.com"] (whitney.mcnally@fairchildpub.com)

I wrote mine (http://www.xanga.com/item.aspx?user=eax&tab=weblogs&uid=74231212)already. If you're interested in checking it out, it's on my Xanga. Maybe it'll help you get some ideas on writing one if you're stuck.

[Jeff Yu :)]

Uhmmm, did anyone else find that article funny? *tentatively raises hand, then ducks*
I actually do know a couple of Asian guys who are into the whole spiky-haired, clean-shaving, purse-wearing metrosexual look. As for looking good and having the fashion sense of a gay man, isn't that what being metrosexual is about? As for the jokes on fashion pointers, I did get a chuckle out of them.

.......I am so going to get lynched now.

[Chester]

Uhmmm, did anyone else find that article funny? *tentatively raises hand, then ducks*
I'd throw something at you -- not because you weren't offended, but because you found it funny.

It had a lot of potential, but the writer had to ruin it with really lame puns.

And it shouldn't have been "Asian" -- it ought to have been "Southern California Korean Clubber" or something like that.

[Sledge]

I wasn't offended, just sort of amused by the unapologetic racism. It just seems so out of place I couldn't help but laugh. Most organizations at least try to cover it up a little.

Didn't think the actual content was very funny, though. Maybe I'm just not hip to the word, yo.

[Faithless]

Does this person post, here?

http://www.carlylauren.blogspot.com/
Write the jerks at Details: magpr@condenast.com

Here's mine:

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:18:30 -0800 (PST)
From: "Carly Lauren" Add to Address Book
Subject: Not Gay, But Asian
To: magpr@condenast.com

Dear Details Magazine/Whitney McNally,

I, the model minority, just wanted to THANK YOU for the wonderful article you did about Gay/Asian fashion.

Finally, a magazine is recognizing the Asian male as someone stylish, much like those fashion diva homosexuals!

I literally put down my chopsticks, stopped doing my math homework, put aside my eyelid surgury application, and read your clever little piece.

And let me just say, you've got it SO right.

It's refreshing to know that an Asian male, such as the one in your article, is so accurately portrayed as a tea drinking, "sashimi-chested", Kendo stick waving, samurai, who is lost in translation.

Hey Details! If you were planning on pissing off the Asian American community, which by the way, has $254 billion in buying power in the U.S, which is worth about 84.7 billion of your crappy magazine, congratulations! You take the prize!

Thanks for joining the ranks of such respected companies as Abercrombie & Fitch as a business who'd rather treat minorities like crap than actually market to them.

But let me get back to walking six steps behind my man, bowing, eating raw fish and playing the violin.

Assholes.

Carly

[hooligan]

^visits fark and likes death cab for cutie. not bad. :D

[Chester]

Great letter. Totally a tone that I can dig.

On her site, she has a link to a scan:
http://www.koarecords.com/details_asian.jpg

Which is good, because the TWAIN setup on my system is fucked and I could either spend several hours and fix it, or I could go onto PartyPoker and steal pots from the fishies. I elect the latter.

[lethal]

^ That scan looks amazingly like the scan kboy75 had in his original post in this thread, down to the way the page is ripped at the bottom.

[Chester]

Hah. I'm an idiot.

[Faithless]

Alright, I emailed my piece, here:


Subject: Gay or Asian or just plain offensive?

Dear Details magazine,

There is a growing trend in the internet-blog and forum world to make Details Magazine the idiotic racists of fashion world, chiefly based on this image from the April 2004 issue:

http://www.koarecords.com/details_asian.jpg

The caption for the picture is "Gay or Asian?" And it has become apparent to those who have seen the picture and caption that goes along with it that Details lacks about as much sensitivity as John McCain, who likes to quack about "gooks" whenever he discussed the Vietnam War.

Don't the editors of Details have the decency to check whether cackling about "grasshopper" and other Asian stereotypes is akin to some non-white medium spouting off about crackers who fuck their cousins all the time?

Where is the common sense to check whether "inscrutable" and commenting about samurais and sashimi is the same sort of passé bigotry that makes fun of NASCAR whitey and his love-to-death relationship with fast food?

I realize that Details has made it back from the brink of closure by selling controversy. But juvenile racism that panders to stereotypical ignorance is a bit much.

[moJo]

I got the following forward from a friend of mine. Just thought I'd share it...

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Gay or Asian? Details misses the mark
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:53:15 +0000
From: Alain Dang <alaindang@hotmail.com>
To:
CC:

Gay or Asian? Or racist and ignorant? This piece of trash is not only insulting to Asian men but gay men as well. How many stereotypes can be perpetuated in a single page? The image of submissive, silky smooth skin, bottom-boy, delicate, non-English speaking, exotic, Chinadoll, chopstick-using, fashion-conscious, label-whoring, studious, gender-queer pretty boy was reinforced in miraculously few words. Congratulations! McNally managed to solidify and immortalize an image that is neither flattering nor representative of the tremendous diversity (and beauty) of both Asian and gay men. As a gay Asian man, my frustration at being a minority within a minority is only aggravated by this lame attempt at hipster-parody. There’s a fine line when writing satire, and I appreciate good satire, but McNally doesn’t have a clue. She only perpetuates antiquated relics from America’s racist and homophobic past and serves it up for mass consumption. The only reason it got through editorial review and published is because they think they can get away with it.

The offending feature is on page 52 of the April 2004 issue of Details [attached jpg]

Please write a letter to the Editor of Details at

detailsletters@fairchildpub.com

Contact Whitney McNally at (212) 630-3850 or

whitney.mcnally@fairchildpub.com

Organizations like GLAAD [Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation] and GAPIMNY [Gay Asian Pacific Islander Men of New York] are working on this issue.

In solidarity,
Alain Dang
Policy Analyst, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force
Political Chair, GAPIMNY
(212) 402-1124
adang@thetaskforce.org

[Faithless]

Can it be considered an offensive stereotype for gays to read "one cruises for chicken"?

[>:^|]

Diana Bendasset, Managing Editor
diana.bendasset@fairchildpub.com

whitney.mcnally@fairchildpub.com

These two e-mail addresses bounced for me. I sent one to detailsletters@fairchildpub.com that appears to have gone through.

I like the description of the magazine:

DETAILS entertains, inspires and educates a new generation of men whose paths are decidedly different than their fathers. Written with intelligence, for men of intelligence, DETAILS speaks to young, affluent professionals aged 25-35 who are at the aspirational stage in their lives, with the means and desire to achieve the next level of success. Edited by a creative team that shares the same demographic voice as our readers, DETAILS' hip and sophisticated editorial is a powerful mixture of smart service, modern photography and provocative journalism that delivers an insider's perspective on subjects which impact a young man's life.

I think a strong argument could be made against the "intelligence" part. But saying that the creative team "shares the same demographic voice"--why don't they just say "Written for White homophobes by White homophobes"?

[>:^|]

Hey, can anybody provide names of some of the advertisers in Details, especially those adjacent to the feature?

[Faithless]

Whitney.McNally@fairchildpub.com and
diana.bendasset@fairchildpub.com and
william.wackerman@fairchildpub.com

bounced for me.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that the postmaster at fairchild.com won't deliver the emails somewhere, right?

[>:^|]

Whitney.McNally@fairchildpub.com and
diana.bendasset@fairchildpub.com and
william.wackerman@fairchildpub.com

bounced for me.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that the postmaster at fairchild.com won't deliver the emails somewhere, right?

Depends on how they have the e-mail configured. Also, the company might be spoofing bounceback notices.

I tried bendassetd@fairchildpub.com and mcnallyw@fairchildpub.com and those two appear to have gone through. No bouncebacks ... yet. detailsletters@fairchildpub.com also appears to have gone through.

[Chester]

Hey, can anybody provide names of some of the advertisers in Details, especially those adjacent to the feature?
Since I don't need a scanner for that, I'll post a list tonight, when I get home.

[Faithless]

Contacted the AAJA via email to see if they care to respond to the issue.

They took the time-out to speak to the Chink's Steaks issue, so I thought it would be interesting to see what they say here.

[azncowboy]

How about MANAA ?

[kasia]

sign the below petition, guys. it can be found at: http://www.petitiononline.com/details4/

i've written the author and offered YW's assistance. you guys are with me, right?

To: Advertisers in Details Magazine
Recently, the climate of Asian bashing has reached an all time high, and an all time low. Our Asian identity is being mocked by ignorant writers, filmmakers, editors and others in the media industry who refuse to recognize us as people, but as objects rather; martial arts, Chinese food, gongs and bonsai trees. We are not objects. We are individuals from countries all over the world. We are intelligent professionals that will not accept a lower status, merely because stereotypes are so deeply ingrained in (American) society. I am asking every single Korean, Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, Filipino, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Malaysian, Thai, Indonesian, Samoan, Balinese to sign this, and to ask everyone they know, regardless of race, to come together and punish Details magazine for their outrageous and horribly racist piece entitled "Gay or Asian" in the 2004 April Issue. View it in full at http://www.koarecords.com/details_asian.jpg or http://jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu/~dhl1/gay1.gif

We are not asking for a public apology. That will not correct this. We are going to crumble Details magazine altogether by going after every advertiser in the magazine starting from April 2004 and boycott every single product they sell. This petition will provide the advertisers evidence of how badly their sales can be affected. The more names on the list, the more power we command. Let's send this petition around the world and back again. Let's get 50,000 names on this list. All we ask is a few minutes of your time to send an email to everyone in your addressbook or friendster.

We are going to disassemble Details magazine from the ground up, starting with their advertising money. We will not be quiet. We are going to make history, take this magazine down and show what Asians are capable of. We will make sure that Whitney Mcnally is never published ever again.

We will never let another racist piece of work aid in sales, fill up a page, or win an Academy Award. Sign this petition if you are ashamed every time you see William Hung on TV. Sign if you're a minority. Sign if you aren't ignorant. Sign if you want to stand up for something you believe in, and are willing to boycott the companies that support this racism.

Sign this petition if you are sick of being treated as a second rate citizen, when you and I both know the world is ours.

Thank you so much for reading this. Please help end this injustice.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

[SunWuKong]

do we have a list of their advertisers?

[BigLew]

sign the below petition, guys. it can be found at: http://www.petitiononline.com/details4/

i've written the author and offered YW's assistance. you guys are with me, right?This is good we already have over 3000 signatures. Now only if Banzai on comedy central were doing as well.

[krome]

This is good we already have over 3000 signatures. Now only if Banzai on comedy central were doing as well.
How many they got? Post that petition link...

[BigLew]

There is a link in the Protest Banzai thread in the Get Involved forum.

[kitty]

my letter:

To Whom It May Concern-

I am writing to express my disgust and outrage at the a recent article that appeared in the April 2004 issue of Details magazine. On page 52, the most recent of Whitney McNally's 'Anthropology' photo article made mocking, racialized comparisons between a stereotypically gay man and a stereotypically Asian/Asian American man.

The article not only mocked Asian culture through a series of unhumourous, and completely meaningless, play on words, but it also promoted a serious stereotype of Asian men. American mainstream media has time and again portrayed Asian men as unempowered, hyperfeminized and demasculated, and this article did nothing but further that untrue and racist stereotype.

The layout of the article was, furthermore, strikingly reminiscent of posters that were released in Nazi Germany, which pointed out racial characteristics of various people of colour in an effort to promote the practice of eugenics. A picture of an Asian man or woman was labelled with various 'Mongoloid' features as a means by which to distinguish them as a lesser race than the Aryan ideal. It is disgusting that McNally's modern version is being passed off as humour.

I am shocked that the editors of Details magazine were willing to allow McNally to make an ongoing series out of mocking generalizations of the gay man. This set of photoarticles promotes the wholly false stereotype of hypersexuality and hyperfeminiziation that continues to plague the homosexual male community in such shows as Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and Will&Grace, as well as in public opinion.

I congratulate you, Details magazine, on managing to alienate and offend two of your community of readers with a single one-page spread. I expect that, in light of the overwhelming backlash against this article, you will immediately issue a public apology to your readers, and will have McNally removed from your staff.

Sincerely,
Jennifer Fang
Ithaca NY

[>:^|]

The layout of the article was, furthermore, strikingly reminiscent of posters that were released in Nazi Germany, which pointed out racial characteristics of various people of colour in an effort to promote the practice of eugenics. A picture of an Asian man or woman was labelled with various 'Mongoloid' features as a means by which to distinguish them as a lesser race than the Aryan ideal. It is disgusting that McNally's modern version is being passed off as humour.

Or the Life Magazine spread:

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/a_f/foster/Life-2-th.jpg

Great letter.

By the way, I don't mean to diss other people's efforts, but an online petition should not be the only means of protest. Corporations are much more likely to respond to individually written letters. And when you write to the advertisers (the names of which Chester will be providing), copy Details magazine:

detailsletters@fairchildpub.com bendassetd@fairchildpub.com mcnallyw@fairchildpub.com magpr@condenast.com

[hooligan]

^where the heck did you dig that up!? i keep hearing about this article in my classes, but this has got to be the first time i've ever seen it.

[rice cracker]

Great letter, Kitty! I wish I had your way with words.

[>:^|]

^where the heck did you dig that up!? i keep hearing about this article in my classes, but this has got to be the first time i've ever seen it.

Go here:
http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/a_f/foster/lifemag.htm

I collect this type of stuff; I think it's an important part of our history. The amazing thing is how much of it has been generated in the past few years.

By the way, if anybody has the Sesshu Foster poem, I'd greatly appreciate a copy.

[hooligan]

Go here:
http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/a_f/foster/lifemag.htm

I collect this type of stuff; I think it's an important part of our history. The amazing thing is how much of it has been generated in the past few years.

By the way, if anybody has the Sesshu Foster poem, I'd greatly appreciate a copy.
there's only been a recent development of this stuff? like how long ago?

[>:^|]

there's only been a recent development of this stuff? like how long ago?

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant that in the past few years, it seems that there has been an increase in racism towards and racist portrayals of Asians. You look at things like Details, Maxim's illustrated feature of a White male beating up Gandhi, the A&F shirts, the National Review cover featuring Bill and Hillary Clinton and Al Gore ...

Or maybe I'm just paying more attention. Or maybe it's just because it's much easier to see a lot more stuff, with the internet and all.

Anyway (sorry to be OT), I'd like to put this stuff in an article or on a website with commentary. Maybe kittygirl can write for me. :)

[azncowboy]

of course, this stuff has always been there, but does seem increasingly like part of a "politically incorrect" backlash that has happened lately.

[kitty]

hey visage, thanks for posting that. ben, I found it too, when doing a google image search for 'asian americans', and have kept it as part of my raw materials for poster making.

Does anyone have a copy of the poster from Germany? I saw it in the Holocaust museum, but have never seen a digital version. The one that visage posted is from WWII America.

thanks guys for what you said 'bout my letter :) feel free to copy-and-paste, if you don't feel comfortable writing something ...

incidentally, the debertrands or whatever email addy bounced back, but I haven't gotten a bounce from the detailsletters or mcnally email addys.

[Faithless]

Go here:
http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/a_f/foster/lifemag.htm

I collect this type of stuff; I think it's an important part of our history. The amazing thing is how much of it has been generated in the past few years.

By the way, if anybody has the Sesshu Foster poem, I'd greatly appreciate a copy.
Oo, now I know why you're my hero.

I used to collect stuff like that as well, but recently purged almost everything after feeling guilty of being a packrat. :frown:

[mr. x]

its kinda weird i was looking at old nazi propaganda onlien and there was one that was basically a german magazine at the time and it had a jewish couple dressed as chinese

[krome]

Great letter and pic, kittygirl! Yes, I'd like to see the German version too! :eek:

They really need to start teaching this historical shyt in Chinese school or community classes!

Here is a list of some of the advertisers in DETAILS Magazine... (http://fwaam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4735&highlight=)
(Thanks Malaena!!)

Abercrombie and Fitch
Acura
American Express
Armani
Audi
Axe
Banana Republic
Bloomingdales
Bombay Sapphire
Breitling
Burberry
Cadillac
Calvin Klein
Camel
Cavalli
Coach
ColeHaan
Courvoisier
Danzka Vodka
Davidoff
DKNY
Dolce & Gabbana
Grey Goose
Guess
Helmut Lang
Hilfiger
Hogan
Hugo Boss
Hummer
INC
Jaguar
Jockey
John Varvatos
Kool
Lacoste
Loreal
Louis Vuitton
Mazda
Neiman Marcus
Nike
Nissan
Nordstrom
Oakley
Polo Ralph Lauren
Puma
Quicksilver
Reebok
Showtime
Subaru
Turning Leaf Vineyards
Versace
Volvo
Wendy’s
Zegna

I'm sure these Japanese car companies will be highly "entertained" by Whitney's piece. :biggrin: :rolleyes:
Now we just need emails for each, and any others...

[kimpossible]

Anyone else want to know who the dude in the picture was? I'm not out to burn him at the stake but I'd be interested in knowing if his picture was 1) Used with his permission 2) He knew what the picture would be used for.

[VV o n g B a]

Anyone else want to know who the dude in the picture was? I'm not out to burn him at the stake but I'd be interested in knowing if his picture was 1) Used with his permission 2) He knew what the picture would be used for.
absolutely. but what if he DID know? the thought is stomach churning.

[hooligan]

absolutely. but what if he DID know? the thought is stomach churning.
it's william hung!

[BigLew]

Anyone else want to know who the dude in the picture was? I'm not out to burn him at the stake but I'd be interested in knowing if his picture was 1) Used with his permission 2) He knew what the picture would be used for.I'd tend to think that he was just an unsuspecting model who was told that he is going to do a fashion spread for Details. I'm sure he or any other Asian male model would jump at the chance, it's not like asian males are very high demand in the U.S. modeling market.

[kimpossible]

I'd tend to think that he was just an unsuspecting model who was told that he is going to do a fashion spread for Details. I'm sure he or any other Asian male model would jump at the chance, it's not like asian males are very high demand in the U.S. modeling market.

I'd hate for the guy to be deemed a sellout (note that's not what I'm trying to make him into) and have his imaged used in a racist, homophobic, and not to mention absolutely lame, mockery. Moreover, if his image was obtained and used without his permission, perhaps he may want to seek damages.

*grin*

[BigLew]

I'd hate for the guy to be deemed a sellout (note that's not what I'm trying to make him into) and have his imaged used in a racist, homophobic, and not to mention absolutely lame, mockery. Moreover, if his image was obtained and used without his permission, perhaps he may want to seek damages.

*grin*Well in that light we someone should try to find out who this cat is so we can find out the story.

[azncowboy]

What's surprising to me is that Details has always been just about the most progressive of the men's mags.. and they actually did use some asian models over the years..

[lethal]

I'm positive that the picture was used with his permission. As for the context of usage, I'm not sure that he would be told. After all, you hear people say "I didn't know I'd be depicted that way" in a story of photo all the time.

[kimpossible]

That would have been cool if he got pissed off and sued though.

[BigLew]

What's surprising to me is that Details has always been just about the most progressive of the men's mags.. and they actually did use some asian models over the years..Yes but Maxim, in the same vein yet less classy, has also used Asian men a few times as models yet they have used racial slurs (Nip and Chinaman that I know for sure) and have a resident Asian buffoon Hiroki, which is basically a real life caricature they describe with every bad stereotype in the bood and is constantly used as a target for the butt of jokes.

[BigLew]

Do they list the names of the models they use in magazines?

[rice cracker]

Do they list the names of the models they use in magazines?

Very rarely, and even then it's usually the first name.

[yoMAMA]

Yes but Maxim, in the same vein yet less classy, has also used Asian men a few times as models yet they have used racial slurs (Nip and Chinaman that I know for sure) and have a resident Asian buffoon Hiroki, which is basically a real life caricature they describe with every bad stereotype in the bood and is constantly used as a target for the butt of jokes.

yeah...in this month's issue, hiroki went to some dungeon dominatrix place and tested all the torture machines.......

:rolleyes: ...............

[Napoleon Chynamite]

it's william hung!

From a purely platonic heterosexual decredited male-with-serious-issues point of view, this guy is like 10 times more better-looking than William Hung. He looks pretty normal.

[Faithless]

Details Magazine Uses Stereotypes Against the LGBT Asian Pacific Islander Community (http://www.glaad.org/media/release_detail.php?id=3630)
March 24, 2004

Contact: Clay Ming Kwong Dollarhide, POC Media fellow
Phone: 323.634.2027 Email: kwong@glaad.org

Humor is hard to do - as proven by Whitney McNally's attempt in "Gay or Asian" [Details Magazine - April, 2004] to play on stereotypes ["gay"] off of another ["Asian"].

Her piece relies on characterizations that missed the truth about people's lives in both the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) and Asian Pacific Islander (API) communities.

As Details gets to know the diversity of both LGBT and API people, this piece loses its truth - and thereby its humor value.

Do make us laugh but not at the expense of entire populations.

GLAAD spoke to Details magazine Editor-in-Chief and urged the Asian Pacific islander LGBT community to send letters to the Editor.

[mr. x]

is this hiroki guy actually asian? or is he the pen name for some insecure white guy?

[BigLew]

is this hiroki guy actually asian? or is he the pen name for some insecure white guy?Looks pretty Asian to me. He doesn't actually write articles, they just quote him saying stupid stuff with and accent of course.

[Chester]

He's their "Japanese intern" and they have him doing stuff in that wacky way that Japanese are know to do things, apparently.

[BigLew]

For the Lazy, some pre-writtens from AMW, all you have to do is sign and send.

Here are the sites:
http://www.citizenspeak.org/campaign/7246.php (Fire Whitney McNally
from Detail)

http://www.citizenspeak.org/campaign/6112.php (Whitney McNally, shame
on you!)

[mr. x]

hmm, well there was that Allen Wu guy on Talk Soup who was a caricature but i laughed. he was dorky but it wasnt always just this stupid asian stereotype thing (though yeah most of the time it was)

[BigLew]

Here is an examply of an a Hiroki article. I just randomly picked on off a web search and it happened to be Asian fruit. Imagine that.

Fruity Duty

Our tender, inexperienced Japanese art assistant gets his cherry popped.

Maxim, July 2001

Asian Pear
We paid 50¢ Grown in Asia; United States
Comments: Is it a pear? Is it an apple? Is it the name of a pricey sex act in a Thai whorehouse? We’re not really sure, but it may very well be the perfect fruit.
Hiroki says: “Very nice. Taste like Asian healthy food; it’s seriously Japanese style.”
*****

Star Fruit
We paid 50¢ Grown in Southeast Asia
Comments: It’s hard not to feel good after eating a slice of delicious star fruit—unless, of course, you have bad kidneys, in which case its high potassium content can kill you. Oh, well!
Hiroki says: “Smells like tulips. It have neat shape and nice bite. I like it.”
*****

Cherimoya
We paid $3.99 Grown in South America; California
Comments: The fleshy texture of the fruit was pleasant, but the uncanny resemblance of its many seeds to dung beetles was rather unnerving. Bonus: It’s more filling than concrete.
Hiroki says: [smells, nearly falls out of chair] “Maybe it dog food again! That toe jammy.”
*****

Ugli Fruit
We paid $1.98 Grown in Jamaica; Florida
Comments: We thought this tasty cross between an orange and a grapefruit looked like Dennis Franz’ pockmarked ass. Silly us! It actually looked like Larry Hagman’s pockmarked ass.
Hiroki says: “Tastes like banana…Joking! Looks ugly, but taste is sweet.”
*****

Persimmon
We paid $1.49 Grown in Asia; United States
Comments: The persimmon looks like a tomato, tastes like an ultrasweet pumpkin, and sounds like a brand of noxious old-lady perfume. So we weren’t really sure what to make of it.
Hiroki says: “It’s good, it’s good. Why? It smells like sperm.”
*****

Durian
We paid $1 per pound Grown in Southeast Asia
Comments: This “delicacy” is banned from airplanes because of its unholy stench. Oh, and its meat looks like a human fetus. We’ve never made Hiroki vomit. Until now.
Hiroki says: [screams, retches into a garbage can] “The smell is now coming from inside me!”
KEEP AWAY!!

[etcj]

Okay, here's some answers to folks's questions:
1.) The advertiser directly opposite the "Gay or Asian?" piece was Coach (leather goods).
2.) Letters to the editor can be sent to: 7 West 34th Street, New York, NY 10001 or to detailsletters@fairchildpub.com.
3.) The piece appeared in April 2004 as Volume 22, Issue 6.

As a treat, here's a letter written by an API media group:

March 26, 2004

Daniel Peres
Editor-in-Chief
Details
7 West 34th Street
New York, NY 10001


Dear Mr. Peres,

We're not sure which is the more offensive aspect of "Gay or Asian?" by Whitney McNally in your April issue: its reduction of two minority groups to grab bags of demeaning stereotypes, or its utter lack of humor. But we'll focus on the former. While we can't figure out exactly what the feature is
trying to say -- Asian men are gay? Asian men look gay? Asian men would be better off gay? -- there's no disguising the fact that it combines leering sexual innuendo and a litany of the most tired cliches about both Asian and gay culture with no goal other than to ridicule both groups.

Are we overreacting to a throwaway, front-of-the-book feature in a men's fashion magazine? No. The lack of care and taste isn't the only transgression here.

Humor and "edginess" are not excuses for caricaturing and insult, and the particular caricatures being played upon here -- of gay men as predatory cruisers, of Asian men as exotic and effeminate (yet always scheming) -- are precisely those that have been most damaging through the years. Are
there any other entire categories of men you would have felt comfortable making fun of entirely on the basis of sexuality? We think not; and we think that your readers would agree with us, and are too sophisticated to see anything funny in the portrayal.

On behalf of the 2,000 reporters, editors and industry executives of Asian descent represented by the Asian American Journalists Association, we ask that you issue an apology to the many Asian Americans who find this story offensive and pledge to take greater care in the future.

Sincerely,

Mae Cheng, AAJA National President
Abe Kwok, AAJA National Vice President for Print

cc:
Diana Bendasset, Managing Editor, Details
Whitney McNally, Writer, Details
Aki Soga and Cheryl Lu-Lien Tan, AAJA National Media Watch Representatives

[thaite]

I was gonna post that, but ya beat me to it.

AAJA is on the case (http://www.aaja.org/html/news_html/media_watch/media_watch_040325.html)

[Sledge]

Here is an examply of an a Hiroki article. I just randomly picked on off a web search and it happened to be Asian fruit. Imagine that.

Don't find this funny.
Don't find this funny.
Don't find this funny.
Don't find this funny.
Be an angry Asian-American activist.

AHHHHHHHHA HA HAHS AH HA HA HS A AUHFGKSDJGN

I'm sorry. That was great. Details is a racist magazine-fuck and I'll help boycott them. The end.

[experiment888]

Anyone else want to know who the dude in the picture was? I'm not out to burn him at the stake but I'd be interested in knowing if his picture was 1) Used with his permission 2) He knew what the picture would be used for.


I'd hate for the guy to be deemed a sellout (note that's not what I'm trying to make him into) and have his imaged used in a racist, homophobic, and not to mention absolutely lame, mockery. Moreover, if his image was obtained and used without his permission, perhaps he may want to seek damages.

*grin*


Well in that light we someone should try to find out who this cat is so we can find out the story.


http://www.petitiononline.com/details4/petition.html

look at signature 10093. according to his friend, he didn't know about it... :biggrin: LAW SUIT

[mr. x]

http://www.petitiononline.com/details4/petition.html

look at signature 10093. according to his friend, he didn't know about it... :biggrin: LAW SUIT
i hope he didnt, sheesh

friggin BURY details in the ground

[iris]

Alright YWers, I'm in. I'm not going to sign the petition because I think the wording is a little strong, but I will do something that I think will have more impact. This is a scale-down version of what I am writing my account execs at Fairchild:

Dear William Wackerman and (My Account Executives),

I am the Director of Marketing for (two clothing lines and a record company) that makes frequent media buys in Details, Jane, and WWD. My company also participates in two annual events held by WWD each year.

As of right now, I am informing you that I, as an Asian-American woman, was highly offended by your April 2004 article of "Gay or Asian?" and I have elected to pull my media buys from your publishing house.

(Reasons why I think "Gay or Asian" is racist - already stated on this thread).

Currently, _____ LLC. & ______ LLC. purchased 12 months of full-page specs in Details and 2 special spreads in WWD.

As you know, the total loss for Details magazine at $36,000/month, the rate given by my account executive (name removed), equals out to $432,000. Add in the 2 spreads for WWD for $90,000, your total loss is $522,000. I have also stopped talks with (my account executive) of Jane to purchase media spreads for 2005 worth another $512,000. I have opted to move my business to Time Warner and Conde Nast, two magazines who uphold the standards of decency and tolerance.

I appreciate the business we've done together and (account executive) and (account excutive 2) have been wonderful. Unfortunately, it is your racist editorials I cannot abide. I hope this is a wake-up call to the twenty-first century and the nation's on-going efforts to promote a better place, something to which Details Magazine does not contribute.

Although I was disturbed by your previous articles of "Gay or Jesus?," "Gay or British?," and "Gay or Latino?" one never fully recognizes prejudices until it slaps them in the face. I can only regret that it has taken me this long to see the light. You are offending not only Asians but homosexuals with this pithy piece on discrimination disguised as "fashion."

As a representative of a minority-owned company, I cannot contribute to the perpetuating racist stereo-types in the name of crass "humour."

Sincerely,

Iris (last name)

(Company)


Something everyone can do is cancel their subscriptions to all magazines under the Fairchild umbrella. I feel really bad about this since I have relationships with several people who work there but I can't in good conscience promote prejudice.

[krome]

Here's the personal comment I added on one of the form letters (yes, it was rather informal and strongly-worded, but maybe I'll write a more professional one later):

I am notoriously PC-incorrect, but even I was viscerally-shaken by this unforgivably offensive "humor." Although, since Asian-bashing is en vogue these days (ask Shaq, Sarah Silverman, Howard Stern, Joel Stein, Al Franken, etc) - I wouldn't even call this PC-incorrect. To write an article praising Asian men as studly - or simply human - would actually be PC-incorrect. This is nothing but childishly-crude racist & homophobic degradation, and not funny in the least. I have never been this insulted by a printed piece in my entire life!!!!

It’s patently absurd for a mainstream writer like you to be resorting to Asian-typing for cheap laughs in “diversity-tolerant” 2004 USA. Your racism shines brilliantly through with such Orientalist comments like "inscrutable affect (damn, an award-winning journalist doesn't even know the difference between "affect" and "effect?")," aping Americaaaans (Asian-Americans are not Americans? – who built the fvcking railroads here and do you even realize how many "American" trends and movies are actually copied FROM Asia (http://www.chud.com/news/mar04/mar6asia.php3) - like Lost in Translation, which you oh-so-cleverly punned), "ladyboy fingers," etc etc.

Fact is, I see this guy's look everywhere - it's simply the current trend (just see Ryan Seacrest as you noted - yet do not accuse of gayness). It has nothing to do with being Asian. I mean, white V-necks? Gimme a break - how the h*ll is that an Asian or gay thing? And, I haven't seen anyone wearing metallic kicks, much less Asian guys?

And on top of the Asian angle, you manage to wholesale offend gays too. Shaved balls and teabagging? How funny. And I thought gay jokes were out circa 1995? Wow, you hit a double, here! *golf-claps*

If you want to call this cross-racial metros*xual fashion trend "gay" - then go for it - but why single out Asian guys? I don't think we started the trend - nor is it even close to exclusively found in us, either. I see it in far more white guys, if anything. So, when’s your “white or gay” piece coming out?

This piece is just inaccurate, ignorant and offensive on SO MANY LEVELS. No need to apologize or over-analyze this plain bigotry anymore here. No offense to gays, but calling someone a "f*g" or effeminate is a clear insult in the streets, PC or not. That’s the bottom line. And you, Whitney McNally, have JUST CALLED ALL ASIAN MEN F*GS!!! The negative intent here is a no-brainer - absolute, utter disrespect - make no mistake! So, are we gonna stand for this BULLSHYT? H*LL NO!

Whitney woman, you done messed up this time. BIG TIME. Your editor and DETAILS's advertisers will NOT hear the end of this. Buh-bye BIGOT!

[iris]

Not something I would write as a professional to another professional, but this is the funniest letter I've seen on the incident:

Tuesday, March 23, 2004
Write the jerks at Details: magpr@condenast.com

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:18:30 -0800 (PST)
From: "Carly Lauren" Add to Address Book
Subject: Not Gay, But Asian
To: magpr@condenast.com

Dear Details Magazine/Whitney McNally,

I, the model minority, just wanted to THANK YOU for the wonderful article you did about Gay/Asian fashion.

Finally, a magazine is recognizing the Asian male as someone stylish, much like those fashion diva homosexuals!

I literally put down my chopsticks, stopped doing my math homework, put aside my eyelid surgury application, and read your clever little piece.

And let me just say, you've got it SO right.

It's refreshing to know that an Asian male, such as the one in your article, is so accurately portrayed as a tea drinking, "sashimi-chested", Kendo stick waving, samurai, who is lost in translation.

Hey Details! If you were planning on pissing off the Asian American community, which by the way, has $254 billion in buying power in the U.S, which is worth about 84.7 billion of your crappy magazine, congratulations! You take the prize!

Thanks for joining the ranks of such respected companies as Abercrombie & Fitch as a business who'd rather treat minorities like crap than actually market to them.

But let me get back to walking six steps behind my man, bowing, eating raw fish and playing the violin.

Assholes.

Carly

[VV o n g B a]

Alright YWers, I'm in. I'm not going to sign the petition because I think the wording is a little strong, but I will do something that I think will have more impact. This is a scale-down version of what I am writing my account execs at Fairchild:

Dear William Wackerman and (My Account Executives),

I am the Director of Marketing for (two clothing lines and a record company) that makes frequent media buys in Details, Jane, and WWD. My company also participates in two annual events held by WWD each year.

As of right now, I am informing you that I, as an Asian-American woman, was highly offended by your April 2004 article of "Gay or Asian?" and I have elected to pull my media buys from your publishing house.

(Reasons why I think "Gay or Asian" is racist - already stated on this thread).

Currently, _____ LLC. & ______ LLC. purchased 12 months of full-page specs in Details and 2 special spreads in WWD.

As you know, the total loss for Details magazine at $36,000/month, the rate given by my account executive (name removed), equals out to $432,000. Add in the 2 spreads for WWD for $90,000, your total loss is $522,000. I have also stopped talks with (my account executive) of Jane to purchase media spreads for 2005 worth another $512,000. I have opted to move my business to Time Warner and Conde Nast, two magazines who uphold the standards of decency and tolerance.

I appreciate the business we've done together and (account executive) and (account excutive 2) have been wonderful. Unfortunately, it is your racist editorials I cannot abide. I hope this is a wake-up call to the twenty-first century and the nation's on-going efforts to promote a better place, something to which Details Magazine does not contribute.

Although I was disturbed by your previous articles of "Gay or Jesus?," "Gay or British?," and "Gay or Latino?" one never fully recognizes prejudices until it slaps them in the face. I can only regret that it has taken me this long to see the light. You are offending not only Asians but homosexuals with this pithy piece on discrimination disguised as "fashion."

As a representative of a minority-owned company, I cannot contribute to the perpetuating racist stereo-types in the name of crass "humour."

Sincerely,

Iris (last name)

(Company)


Something everyone can do is cancel their subscriptions to all magazines under the Fairchild umbrella. I feel really bad about this since I have relationships with several people who work there but I can't in good conscience promote prejudice.
wow... cheers to you iris. u rock!!

[Chester]

Although I was disturbed by your previous articles of "Gay or Jesus?," "Gay or British?," and "Gay or Latino?" one never fully recognizes prejudices until it slaps them in the face. I can only regret that it has taken me this long to see the light.
I don't know about the Latino one, as I haven't seen it, but my objection to the Asian piece was that it didn't fall in line with the others: instead of picking out a particular sub-group the way they did with Caucasians (they've done "British" and "Guido"), they threw all Asians in together (as they apparently did with Latinos).

And, in contrast to the ones I've seen, the writer really pulled out all the stops when it came to relying on the most absurd of stereotypes and bad puns. Perhaps it's just personalization, but the "Guido" piece, for example, seemed to go much more lightly in terms of how they lampooned Italian Americans.

In any case...I think the previous iterations of that "feature," had a much more innocent feel to them than the Asian version. That is: I wouldn't cop to only caring about the series because it now lampoons my race, but because this last one had a different tenor than the previous ones, regardless of race.

[iris]

Mr./Ms. Face pointed out correctly that Fairchild Publications now belongs to Conde Nast in a $650 million buy-out deal.

I have altered my letter.

[ellsworth81]

nice piece iris.

very classy of you, but my question is whether or not the editors of this magazine are even deserving of our "professional" courtesy? you'd expect editors to be in a bit more on top of things and more "professional" when it comes to keeping questionable material from being printed.

i guess i'm just not as mature, especially when being mocked so blatantly :-/

[Chester]

very classy of you, but my question is whether or not the editors of this magazine are even deserving of our "professional" courtesy?
Considering that Iris's professional position is part and parcel to her reaction, yes...yes they do.

[kimpossible]

ellsworth> think of it as iris kicking them in the nuts politely - the bigger, more tender nuts with dollar signs.

[kitty]

i think that iris' letter was great, and really appropriate.

[BigLew]

http://www.petitiononline.com/details4/petition.html

Someone on the Igoo forums stated that they didn't like the fact that the petition basically bagged on William Hung. As I thought more about it I have to agree the reference to William Hung in regard to a petition against an offensive article having nothing to do with him is unecessary. Kind of feel like this should be brought up to the petition writers.

[BigLew]

I got this from AMW

I know I feel like bombarding you with mails one after another but this
Details thing changes a lot, so.... You need to excuse me.

Details apologized to Gay/Lesbian people through GLAAD (The Gay &
Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation) today by letting them run their
statement on next issue of Details.

When I called Details office, trying to reach someone, I got the
recording says, "If you are calling in regards to Details' recent
article, there will be a statement on Letters page on the next
issue..."

So they think (or hope) that this issue will go away by apologizing to
gay/lesbian group but not to Asian Americans.

You need to send them the message LOUD and CLEAR, "NO WAY!"

We are setting up this link on the web within 24 hours but as always,
you will get the first peek. The letter writing campaign "Fire Whitney
McNally from Details" will be replaced by this new one,
"That's not good enough, Details Magazine!"
http://www.citizenspeak.org/campaign/5296.php

You already know what to do, all you have to do is fill out the form
with your comment if you want and click and it'll be on its way. I
added more names in terms of senior editorial staff of Details and
Executives at Fairchild.

This is a new link so don't mistake it for the old one if you already sent a letter through that one, this one is a new message entirely.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I got this from AMW

I know I feel like bombarding you with mails one after another but this
Details thing changes a lot, so.... You need to excuse me.

Details apologized to Gay/Lesbian people through GLAAD (The Gay &
Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation) today by letting them run their
statement on next issue of Details.

When I called Details office, trying to reach someone, I got the
recording says, "If you are calling in regards to Details' recent
article, there will be a statement on Letters page on the next
issue..."

So they think (or hope) that this issue will go away by apologizing to
gay/lesbian group but not to Asian Americans.

You need to send them the message LOUD and CLEAR, "NO WAY!"

We are setting up this link on the web within 24 hours but as always,
you will get the first peek. The letter writing campaign "Fire Whitney
McNally from Details" will be replaced by this new one,
"That's not good enough, Details Magazine!"
http://www.citizenspeak.org/campaign/5296.php

You already know what to do, all you have to do is fill out the form
with your comment if you want and click and it'll be on its way. I
added more names in terms of senior editorial staff of Details and
Executives at Fairchild.

This is a new link so don't mistake it for the old one if you already sent a letter through that one, this one is a new message entirely.

I don't get it. Am I mistaken, or has Details run similar gag articles in past issues comparing gays to other groups of people. Why didn't they apologize to the gay community back then? Or did gay-rights activists suddenly get all pissed off only after this one was printed? This might sound inappropriate but....is there a number we can call just to bitch people out? Most specifically, the editors that somehow let this go by them.

[sageb1]

could they be any more uncreative and lame? omg, this is hokey shit. sashimi-smooth? bonsai ass? kendo stick? and of course, a last samurai reference. :mad: i can't believe i'm seeing this BS. :frown: Sashimi is smooth going down only when chased with sake. I thought sashimi refers to female pudenda. :biggrin:

Kendo stick??? WTF :eek:

When I was chatting with a prim and proper Chinese bargirl in Jahore Baru, the kind of lady who doesn't date the customer as is customary like the Malay bargirls, my penis was refered to as wasabi.:biggrin:

BTW not all women are bargirls. Some women are bankers, others lawyers. The Chinese lady I chatted with wanted to move on into running a health drink bar selling Red Bull and fruit juices made from fresh fruit.

Yea seriously. I'm proud of my baby chest and girly hands and fingers. Nothing wrong with being hair/odor free and having a fast metabolism. But I think the problem is that society on the whole sees this as 'unmasculine' and promotes the negativity associated with it.
So I'm unmasculine because my chest hair migrated south???????:eek:

*Mental image of perfect male as being Nazi youth.:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I'd rather be a hairy-assed Asian man than a hairy-chested white man anyday. :biggrin:

So why is it that a few of the manga in Japan are "selling" hairy-chested white men to impressible young Japanese women?

And, why is it that Asian men are "disgusting, smelly weirdoes"? Quick! Someone look at manga over the past 150 years and see how it evolved from admiring dominant Japanese men to treating them harshly.

In the same time span, notice the obsession about cleanliness.

[kitty]

I think it's true that we need to demand an apology (and more) from the magazine editors for the AA community, but I scanned the new letter that was posted. I dunno, does anyone else feel like this is just another tactic to divide us?

[ellsworth81]

not to split hairs or anything, but i thought the AA community is a more valuable demographic for publishers compared to the LGBT community.

so why no apology to us?

[kitty]

not to split hairs or anything, but i thought the AA community is a more valuable demographic for publishers compared to the LGBT community.


how so? the AA community rarely speaks out and consumes much like the white mainstream.

[ellsworth81]

how so? the AA community rarely speaks out and consumes much like the white mainstream.

hehe, are you equating the LGBT community with the white mainstream?

[krome]

not to split hairs or anything, but i thought the AA community is a more valuable demographic for publishers compared to the LGBT community.

so why no apology to us?
Actually, I'm guessing they are actually larger than us population-wise - and CERTAINLY FAR MORE organized, mobilized and politically-active. Without a doubt.

Let's be honest - there's more gays on TV than Asians. They are also a trendy cause-de-celebre at the moment with Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and various other shows.

Also, they are majority-white (assuming they're population-proportional). Let's not forget that either. White people will still have more "ties" to a gay WHITE than a HETERO AM.

The disturbing thing about Whitney McNally is that she appears to target every group BUT HER OWN. I'm assuming she is not Italian, Latino, etc etc (I could be wrong). But, when is her "White Female or KKK Racist Butch" piece gonna come out?

You know - that's a great idea! We should score a pic of her and give her the similar treatment! Pictures speak louder than words! And, I think that might actually HIT HOME with HER.

[BigLew]

That'll just piss her off and accomplish nothing Krome. I think it would better to scare the shit out of Details/publisher with the actual prospect of finacial loss.

Something else I have been wondering, I wonder if organizations such as GLAAD will just drop out of the protest since Details agreed an apology to the gay/lesbian community. It would be nice if they would turn down the apology until Details agrees on at the very least public apologies to both offended parties. Somehow I am not so optomistic, but I would love to be proven wrong.

[hooligan]

That'll just piss her off and accomplish nothing Krome. I think it would better to scare the shit out of Details/publisher with the actual prospect of finacial loss.

Something else I have been wondering, I wonder if organizations such as GLAAD will just drop out of the protest since Details agreed an apology to the gay/lesbian community. It would be nice if they would turn down the apology until Details agrees on at the very least public apologies to both offended parties. Somehow I am not so optomistic, but I would love to be proven wrong.
i agree with biglew, fighting fire with fire is pretty pointless. that's why we needed cross-community action. i'm wondering why didn't LGBT groups hook up with Asian American groups to tackle this picture. obvriously, this is an article that affects both communities, so why wasn't there more action across the board, in a cohesive group.

iris rocks. she's still going to kill me.

[azncowboy]

It sounds like the Asian community got more pissed off than anyone. But Details would rather admit to being insensitive to gays (especially if the writer was gay) than of being racist.

"I don't get it. Am I mistaken, or has Details run similar gag articles in past issues comparing gays to other groups of people. Why didn't they apologize to the gay community back then? Or did gay-rights activists suddenly get all pissed off only after this one was printed? This might sound inappropriate but....is there a number we can call just to bitch people out? Most specifically, the editors that somehow let this go by them."