chinese waitresses that speak english to me

[kasia]

i'm about to head out to grab dim sum with some friends. for my entire life, at every dim sum restaurant, i would see the waitresses pass by the other tables with chinese people and say, "siu mai, ha gow, etc." they would pass by part of my table and say the same to my grandparents/mother/etc. then they would come by me (or my dad) and say, "shrimp dumplings, etc?" it's so frustrating b/c my dad and i both speak chinese fluently. my dad's from hong kong. it's gotten so bad that our family members and friends wait for it to happen so they can laugh at us.

i'm only 1/32 white--which means, i hardly look it at all. most chinese people can tell i look different, but they won't really be able to say that i look mixed or anything. so why this different treatment?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 2 2002, 01:30 PM
i'm only 1/32 white--which means, i hardly look it at all. most chinese people can tell i look different, but they won't really be able to say that i look mixed or anything. so why this different treatment?
it's because they can tell you're a juk sing! :)

but what the hell? people think you look different because of the 1/32 white? :blink:

[kasia]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 2 2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 2 2002, 01:30 PM
i'm only 1/32 white--which means, i hardly look it at all.  most chinese people can tell i look different, but they won't really be able to say that i look mixed or anything.  so why this different treatment?
it's because they can tell you're a juk sing! :)

but what the hell? people think you look different because of the 1/32 white? :blink:
but my dad's not. btw, my dad says 'juk sing' is deragatory.

[kimpossible]

Aha, I think I can answer this. Where I live we have one (1!) single place to get decent, not great, dim sum. Originally the waitresses only spoke Cantonese or a little Mandarin to everyone.

Then the place was written up in a mainstream culture paper. We had the Great White Flood (I'm whiter so I can say this, right? :unsure: ) and now they only speak English unless we speak Mandarin back. And now they always give me a fork too. :lol:

edited to say i love both of your new avatars.



<!--EDIT|Hello_Hapa|Sep 2 2002, 10:43 AM-->

[deez nuts]

No problems with me ordering or understand cantonese when it comes to dim sum. But when they start talking to me, I'm like arooooo? My cantonese sucks. My mom is very disappointed in me for not being able to grasp cantonese faster.

So English is all good with me! But thank god I can switch it around and start talking to them in mandarin!

HH ouch that sucks, good dim sum is everywhere here. I would die if I only had one place to go to.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 2 2002, 01:47 PM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 2 2002, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 2 2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 2 2002, 01:30 PM
i'm only 1/32 white--which means, i hardly look it at all. most chinese people can tell i look different, but they won't really be able to say that i look mixed or anything. so why this different treatment?
it's because they can tell you're a juk sing! :)

but what the hell? people think you look different because of the 1/32 white? :blink:
but my dad's not. btw, my dad says 'juk sing' is deragatory.
bah! juk sing is just like "fob". it's a rough term - like SO MANY terms in cantonese are - but i personally don't find it derogatory. technically your dad's not a juk sing, but alot of people consider 1.5 generation people juk sings anyway.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 2 2002, 10:38 AM

but my dad's not. btw, my dad says 'juk sing' is deragatory.
what does it mean?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 2 2002, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 2 2002, 10:38 AM

but my dad's not. &nbsp;btw, my dad says 'juk sing' is deragatory.
what does it mean?
mandarin is not quite as coarse as cantonese. :P


zhu sheng
<img src='http://132.229.12.115/cgi-bin/char.cgi?7AF9.gif[/img]http://132.229.12.115/cgi-bin/char.cgi?5347.gif

it is a cantonese slang term for ABCs. it is to imply that they are not clever enough to make corners in their thinking, that their thinking is like bamboo, just shoots straight up. a product of their american upbringing. :)

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 2 2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 2 2002, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 2 2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 2 2002, 01:30 PM
i'm only 1/32 white--which means, i hardly look it at all. most chinese people can tell i look different, but they won't really be able to say that i look mixed or anything. so why this different treatment?
it's because they can tell you're a juk sing! :)

but what the hell? people think you look different because of the 1/32 white? :blink:
but my dad's not. btw, my dad says 'juk sing' is deragatory.
bah! juk sing is just like "fob". it's a rough term - like SO MANY terms in cantonese are - but i personally don't find it derogatory. technically your dad's not a juk sing, but alot of people consider 1.5 generation people juk sings anyway.
Yah my mom's friends call me that, amongst other things <_<

[Chris]

I know how that can get. Especially at dim sum, I don't know why they do that but they do. I literally switch to Cantonese and Mandarin all the time because they assume I don't know diddy squat because I speak perfect English. They assume because you do speak it that your "jook sing" but they get all shock because I do speak it. heheheh

[AliBabaIncorporated]

man whatever. come to hong kong. everyone tries speaking English to me. today i was sitting in my math class, which is taught in cantonese. and the prof was throwing out questions left and right. but then he switched to english to throw one at me. then later i'm standing in line at a store, talking with my friend in cantonese. but the clerk still insists on using really bad english to address me.

[kimpossible]

Eric> why do you think this happens in HK? Is it the high ex-pat population (I'm asking because I don't know)? Because in Taiwan people come up and speak Mandarin with me even though it's pretty damn obvious that I'm a foreigner. I think it's because there aren't too many fluently English people there.

But even as I write this I think I have a stereotype of many people in HK speaking English. How far off am I?

[karizma]

>> i always heard from my friends that frequented HK and places in china that salespeople will try to rip you off if they sense that you arent from around there or that you cant speak fluent chinese...is this true?

>> i get the same thing when i go out for dim sum. do i look white? no. do i look anything other than chinese? maybe...ive gotten filipino, vietnamese, and japanese...none of which, personally, i think i resemble. but eh...im kind of grateful for it because when im put on the spot to speak chinese i kind of faulter...im not used to speaking in it. *shrug*...then again they probably think kids my age dont know diddly squat about their culture much less know how to speak the language...for the most part theyre right =/.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 9 2002, 07:04 PM
Eric> why do you think this happens in HK? Is it the high ex-pat population (I'm asking because I don't know)? Because in Taiwan people come up and speak Mandarin with me even though it's pretty damn obvious that I'm a foreigner. I think it's because there aren't too many fluently English people there.

But even as I write this I think I have a stereotype of many people in HK speaking English. How far off am I?
i think it's because only an extremely small percentage of non-chinese (pure) looking people in HK actually speak cantonese (minus the indian population there - because many of them actually speak fluent cantonese). cantonese is not an easy language to learn if you have not grown up speaking it. there're 9 tones compared to mandarin's 4 tones! combined that with all the slangs that are sometimes only local to HK, and you'd have a nightmare trying to learn cantonese. i have a brit friend who has lived there for 10 years working for south china morning post and he can only mutter off some basics (with incorrect tones might i add). on the other hand, 3 or 4 years of mandarin lessons and you can have a short conversation in it. now if you also consider the fact that HK was a british colony and that english is taught (badly) starting in elementary education, you'd have people addressing non-chinese looking people in english.

and HH, local HKers don't speak english to each other, but most of the time they can't have a full conversation without at least an english word or two. more interesting is that most people call each other by their english names, and having english names has been the norm since my parents' generation, which was born in the 50s. not to go off on a tangent but it's interesting to note that local HKers of my parents' generation also experienced a type of cultural-generational gap similar (but not as extreme) to that experienced by ABCs toward their immigrant parents. the parents of most HKers from my parents' generation were from revolutionary mainland china. but there they were, growing up and living in a british colony where english was hip and espoused. not only that, they came of age in the 60s and 70s.

people speaking english to each other - that's singapore. :)

singlish :P

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by karizma@Sep 9 2002, 08:50 PM
>> i always heard from my friends that frequented HK and places in china that salespeople will try to rip you off if they sense that you arent from around there or that you cant speak fluent chinese...is this true?
yes people will try to rip you off if you can't speak chinese. and they'll rip you off even more if you're not chinese. they tend to think that you're a tourist. but this is really only at "less established" businesses. at the bigger and more expensive-looking places, they'd be straight with you.

i've seen it in action. this french lady was buying some food at one of those foodstands on the streets. she asked the foodwoman how much it would cost. $6. i bought mine for $5. :unsure:

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by karizma@Sep 9 2002, 08:50 PM
>> i always heard from my friends that frequented HK and places in china that salespeople will try to rip you off if they sense that you arent from around there or that you cant speak fluent chinese...is this true?

>> i get the same thing when i go out for dim sum. do i look white? no. do i look anything other than chinese? maybe...ive gotten filipino, vietnamese, and japanese...none of which, personally, i think i resemble. but eh...im kind of grateful for it because when im put on the spot to speak chinese i kind of faulter...im not used to speaking in it. *shrug*...then again they probably think kids my age dont know diddly squat about their culture much less know how to speak the language...for the most part theyre right =/.
Don't worry woot™ my mom and dad got ripped off too. You have to bargain, like you never bargained before.

And yah, tell me about it, MK cantonese is haaaaaaaard.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

i think it's because only an extremely small percentage of non-chinese (pure) looking people in HK actually speak cantonese (minus the indian population there - because many of them actually speak fluent cantonese).
plenty of mixed kids here seem to speak minimal Cantonese as well. like that runner-up in the Miss HK 2002 pageant.

cantonese is not an easy language to learn if you have not grown up speaking it. there're 9 tones compared to mandarin's 4 tones! combined that with all the slangs that are sometimes only local to HK, and you'd have a nightmare trying to learn cantonese. i have a brit friend who has lived there for 10 years working for south china morning post and he can only mutter off some basics (with incorrect tones might i add). on the other hand, 3 or 4 years of mandarin lessons and you can have a short conversation in it.
A Malaysian rap group consisting of 3 Indians and a Fukkienese guy did a cover of that old Samuel Hui song "Ban Jin Ba Liang" a few years back ... and they rapped in Cantonese. They all had pretty good accents, too. search kazaa for the song called "kam sang tah kong chai" ... anyway, I've met some adult students who have studied cantonese for only a year or two at the language school which is attached to my university here, and most of them actually have pretty good tones, just their accent is horrible. I guess because they actually got drilled on tones to the extent that you give them a word and they know which of the nine tones it is pronounced in. I can't do that, I just kinda say words the way they sound right and see if people understand or look at me all confused ... and since I grew up speaking a dialect with "only" 6 tones and didn't learn Cantonese until high school, I still make mistakes from time to time.

now if you also consider the fact that HK was a british colony and that english is taught (badly) starting in elementary education, you'd have people addressing non-chinese looking people in english.
Well, English language education is pretty extensive here. My roommate insists on speaking to me in English all the time. But English language education is just as extensive in Malaysia (another former British colony), and Chinese people there usually speak some Chinese dialect to me. Even Malays sometimes speak Malay to me, even after they hear my crazy-ass american/chinese/hick accent. Despite the fact that the group of people in Malaysia who I look like the most are the middle-eastern exchange students (there are more these days, who want to study in English-speaking universities but don't want to go to a Western country).

and HH, local HKers don't speak english to each other, but most of the time they can't have a full conversation without at least an english word or two.
I'd invite you to my maths class sometime if you were here. It's hilarious, half the time the professor isn't talking in Cantonese, but Chinglish. All the "background words" are in Chinese, but maths terms are just as likely to come out in English as in Chinese. I make a point of trying to stick to Chinese even for maths terms, mostly for practice, but at least half of my classmates (the ones who went to English-language middle schools) actually seem more comfortable with the English maths terms than their Chinese equivalents. Today, the prof said the term "convergent sequence" in Chinese and got met by plenty of blank stares. I only knew it cuz last week I picked up a Chinese textbook on differential equations and started going through and looking up all the words I didn't know.

more interesting is that most people call each other by their english names, and having english names has been the norm since my parents' generation, which was born in the 50s.
Actually the other day, I was having dinner with a couple of other guys in my dorm, including a mainland student from Shanghai (who actually speaks fluent, though accented, Cantonese, which took him less than half a year to learn). I mentioned the English name of a mutual acquaintance of ours, and he couldn't think of who she was until my friend told him that acquaintance's surname and faculty. His reason was that "I'm not really close to her, so I only know her Chinese name, not her English nickname." Which seemed kinda backwards to the rest of us ...



<!--EDIT|AliBabaIncorporated|Sep 10 2002, 07:16 PM-->

[SunWuKong]

yeah i can totally imagine why people would speak english to you. if you can't speak cantonese at a fluency level, they just assume that you'd prefer speaking in english. HK people always feel like they'd be more hospitable if they are speaking english to the non-local, and going to a western restaurant instead of to yum cha. but the ironic thing is that most non-locals would rather get the full local experience while living in HK (or any other place for that matter). and then you'd get these people that are really eager to improve their english so they make it a point to speak english to you. i mean i speak cantonese fluently and i still knew people who wanted to speak english to me because they wanted to improve their english. or you'd get these people who feel that they should speak to you in english but are not confident enough in their abilities, so they hardly say anything to you at all! hahhah! i think if you just keep speaking cantonese in all possible situations, people around you would eventually get used to it.

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Sep 10 2002, 02:14 PM
and HH, local HKers don't speak english to each other, but most of the time they can't have a full conversation without at least an english word or two.
I'd invite you to my maths class sometime if you were here. It's hilarious, half the time the professor isn't talking in Cantonese, but Chinglish. All the "background words" are in Chinese, but maths terms are just as likely to come out in English as in Chinese. I make a point of trying to stick to Chinese even for maths terms, mostly for practice, but at least half of my classmates (the ones who went to English-language middle schools) actually seem more comfortable with the English maths terms than their Chinese equivalents. Today, the prof said the term "convergent sequence" in Chinese and got met by plenty of blank stares. I only knew it cuz last week I picked up a Chinese textbook on differential equations and started going through and looking up all the words I didn't know.

oh man you have no idea, it's so much worse when it comes to computer terms. an ex-colleague of mine who started going to mainland frequently to set up our operations there actually had to buy a dictionary of chinese computer terms, because apparently in the mainland, they've came up with chinese equivalents of all the english computer terms and people are using them. but nobody in HK knows them!



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Sep 10 2002, 03:20 PM-->

[princess]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 2 2002, 06:41 PM
And now they always give me a fork too. :lol:

ahh i hate getting a fork and a spoon at asian restaurants.

[blkazngirl]

Do I really look different? Because I'm 1/2 Chinese and Black most people think the following: Black American, Spanish, or anything but Asian. It use to tick me off when I was a kid. Now I enjoy F*#k'in with their minds when I speak Mandarin to them. Their reaction :o are like, "Oh, where did you learn Chinese" My rely, "From my dad." :P

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by blkazngirl@Sep 25 2002, 09:12 PM
Do I really look different? Because I'm 1/2 Chinese and Black most people think the following: Black American, Spanish, or anything but Asian. It use to tick me off when I was a kid. Now I enjoy F*#k'in with their minds when I speak Mandarin to them. Their reaction :o are like, "Oh, where did you learn Chinese" My rely, "From my dad." :P
<img src='http://www.projectbeta.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbup.gif[/img]

[hormiga]

Give these waitresses their chance of using something they've learned in ESL class.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by hormiga@Nov 3 2002, 08:29 AM
Give these waitresses their chance of using something they've learned in ESL class.
i am not a roaming volunteer english tutor. especially not when I'm outside the US.

general principle of communication between two people: use whatever language is likely to communicate your message without errors. as a chinese speaker, I don't wanna use English to communicate about Chinese food in a Chinese restaurant to a Chinese waitress. too large a chance for error.

[Hanuman]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 10 2002, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by karizma@Sep 9 2002, 08:50 PM
>> i always heard from my friends that frequented HK and places in china that salespeople will try to rip you off if they sense that you arent from around there or that you cant speak fluent chinese...is this true?

>> i get the same thing when i go out for dim sum. do i look white? no. do i look anything other than chinese? maybe...ive gotten filipino, vietnamese, and japanese...none of which, &nbsp;personally, i think i resemble. but eh...im kind of grateful for it because when im put on the spot to speak chinese i kind of faulter...im not used to speaking in it. *shrug*...then again they probably think kids my age dont know diddly squat about their culture much less know how to speak the language...for the most part theyre right =/.
Don't worry woot™ my mom and dad got ripped off too. You have to bargain, like you never bargained before.


Thailand is notorious for this. Cabs can run 3 times more expensive for a Frarang (foreigner), then for a native. Haggling and bargaining help, and you must do it often and frequently!

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Nov 3 2002, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by hormiga@Nov 3 2002, 08:29 AM
Give these waitresses their chance of using something they've learned in ESL class.
i am not a roaming volunteer english tutor. especially not when I'm outside the US.

general principle of communication between two people: use whatever language is likely to communicate your message without errors. as a chinese speaker, I don't wanna use English to communicate about Chinese food in a Chinese restaurant to a Chinese waitress. too large a chance for error.
hahah oh man i can see how that would be annoying. yeah HK is trying to build up their "service" industry. 10 years ago, waiters would probably have ignored english speakers depending on where you are. now they're trying to be more friendly and cater to their customers. heheh give those waitresses a break, i think they're just confused because they don't expect you to speak cantonese well.

[seryb]

I wish people would speak English with me. When I go to Chinatown in Boston or NYC, people talk to me in Cantonese/Mandarin (I can't tell the difference). When I'm in a local Viet store, people talk to me in Viet.

I sometimes wish I had a distinctive look so people could tell what ethnicity I was right away so I don't have to look like a dumbass when I tell the wait staff/store clerks that I don't speak the language. :(

[BeTheReds]

My situation is kinda similar.

Sometimes I'd go to a Korean restaurant with a group of Chinese people. The waitress will come up to them and speak in Korean trying to get their order. And I would have to translate what the waitress was saying. So I figured she didn't speak English, since afterall she must have noticed that all these Chinese people didn't understand wtf she was saying, and if English was one of her skills then she would simply get their orders in English. So when it came to be my turn instead of the Korean that I had been translating into English for everyone else, I got broken English from her. Then she asked me if I needed a fork.

[angel nympho]

I prefer them speaking English to me. When I try to bust out my broken Korean, people give me weird looks.

[Fireblade]

Here in S.F., I go to the dim sum places every so often in Chinatown. Though I am full chinese, and I speak adaquete cantonese (ok, it's actually really really broken) the waiters/waitress give me forks instead of chopsticks. And it's usually me ordering for my non-speaking chinese cousins. But it's weird because they give them chopsticks and me forks. Must be cuz I look and act like an ABC. Well technically I am, but it's still kinda weird. Not offensive, just... well... weird.

[Adaon]

Originally posted by Fireblade@Nov 5 2002, 06:24 PM
Here in S.F., I go to the dim sum places every so often in Chinatown. Though I am full chinese, and I speak adaquete cantonese (ok, it's actually really really broken) the waiters/waitress give me forks instead of chopsticks. And it's usually me ordering for my non-speaking chinese cousins. But it's weird because they give them chopsticks and me forks. Must be cuz I look and act like an ABC. Well technically I am, but it's still kinda weird. Not offensive, just... well... weird.
True enough, it's especially rough when you're going out to eat, and ya speak for the rest of the group just to speed the rest of the orders along, the waiter still insists on speaking to everyone else in broken english which only confuses your friends more and then breaking out the forks/spoons and coke/ice water as compared to tea/chopsticks for everyone else in the restaurant *sorry i love tea*Howeverm if you're with your parents/older relatives, everything is as smooth as silk, where as if you're just with your friends you're just a silly kid ordering for his/her silly friends.....