Clear Channel Yanks Howard Stern

[nifer]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4375426/

Howard Stern suspended
Clear Channel pulls his show from
all of its stations
Radio personality Howard Stern was suspended from Clear Channel stations.

Updated: 1:11 a.m. ET Feb. 26, 2004NEW YORK - Shock jock Howard Stern’s show was yanked Wednesday from Clear Channel Communications Inc. radio stations after an incident on his show Tuesday, the first casualty of its zero tolerance policy on indecency.

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“It was vulgar, offensive and insulting, not just to women and African Americans but to anyone with a sense of common decency,” Clear Channel Radio Chief Executive John Hogan said in a statement.

“We will not air Howard Stern on Clear Channel stations until we are assured that his show will conform to acceptable standards of responsible broadcasting,” he said.

Clear Channel has about 1,200 stations in the United States. The Stern show was carried in six markets, including Fort Lauderdale and Orlando, Florida; Rochester, New York; Louisville, Kentucky; San Diego; and Pittsburgh.

Stern’s show is syndicated by Infinity Broadcasting, a unit of Viacom Inc.

A spokesmen for Infinity was not immediately available for comment and a Viacom spokesman declined comment.

Neither Stern’s agent, nor producers for his New York-based radio program could be immediately reached for comment.

“We have a legal obligation to reject programming that’s inappropriate for the airwaves, irrespective of any contractual relationship,” said a Clear Channel spokesman.

[ellsworth81]

Is there any links to stories as to what he did to get "yanked"

haha, i said "yanked" ..

[nifer]

Is there any links to stories as to what he did to get "yanked"

haha, i said "yanked" ..

:tongue:



the newsites seem to be really vague on their coverage of this, but...
i was listening to him on the way to work tuesday AM. his guest was that guy in the infamous paris hilton video. he was being asked who else he's had sex with blahblahblah. they took an onair call and the caller asked the guy if he ever had anal sex w/ a famous black person or any other minority.

dont quote me, but this, i hear, is the incident that set them off. it would seem though, that there has to be more to the story than just that. if not, well then... thats just plain sad :rolleyes:


good morning by the way :smile:

[krome]

The guy's shtick has gotten real old and so has he. He's such a dirty old man.

Does Clear Channel really have a new zero-tolerance policy, though? What exactly is it and why?

[younggiftedandblack]

The guy's shtick has gotten real old and so has he. He's such a dirty old man.

Does Clear Channel really have a new zero-tolerance policy, though? What exactly is it and why?

Clear Channel is full of it!!! They own a good portion of the radio stations in this country and constantly put out shitty music on a daily basis. That interview hed did was no worse then the thousands of others he's done over the past 25 years. This has nothing to do with that interview. Stern started bashing the president and congress over the flap over JJ breast being exposed and pressure was put on Clear Channel (who's president is speaking before congress today).

[ellsworth81]

Clear Channel is full of it!!! They own a good portion of the radio stations in this country and constantly put out shitty music on a daily basis. That interview hed did was no worse then the thousands of others he's done over the past 25 years. This has nothing to do with that interview. Stern started bashing the president and congress over the flap over JJ breast being exposed and pressure was put on Clear Channel (who's president is speaking before congress today).

don't they realize that kids don't listen to talk radio? therefore kids won't be exposed to the "filth" like we saw on that dirty network CBS (or whoever aired the Super Bowl).

MTV is pretty dirrrty too ... and lots of kids watch that ... are they going to kill that too?

[ShortNBitter]

People like him because he is a dumbass. I doubt this is the first time he has gone too far/

[Banana]

I can be 3 times more shocking than him so does that mean I'll be more successful? Being racist, sexist, and perverted? Howard ain't got shit on me.

[krome]

i remember like 5-6 yrs ago when i was listening one time, they had an audio clip of the president of china speaking and they would mock translate in english after every other word and they said something like "i am a chinaman, therefore i have a small penis" (http://modelminority.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5421&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=) as the translation.
Racial slurs "Jap, gook, chink, Chinaman have also been used.

I don't think he ever dares to use n*gger, though.

Howard Stern has taken a fast tailspin from politically-incorrect to flat-out racist. He worships blonde shiksas, white celebs, black jockstars to a lesser extent, and craps on everyone else. I actually used to listen to him too, but his time is up and I hope the door hits his pind*ck on the way out. He really just disgusts me now, and I don't think he has ever said anything about Asians other than making small d*ck jokes.

[yoMAMA]

Racial slurs "Jap, gook, chink, Chinaman have also been used.

I don't think he ever dares to use n*gger, though.

Howard Stern has taken a fast tailspin from politically-incorrect to flat-out racist. He worships blonde shiksas, white celebs, black jockstars to a lesser extent, and craps on everyone else. I actually used to listen to him too, but his time is up and I hope the door hits his pind*ck on the way out. He really just disgusts me now, and I don't think he has ever said anything about Asians other than making small d*ck jokes.

I think he also said things about himself being jewish or somethig like that.....

But basically, his whole show [at least the one on E!] is about.....

1. a girl with nice "boobs" comes in to the show
2. she comes to the booth
3. "let me see your boobs" -Howard
4."Nice!" "now turn around, let me see more".....Howard
5. Robin says something
6. That dorky looking white guy says something.

......repeat....commercial...... :rolleyes:

[krome]

^ Pretty much, lol! I mean, he's the stereotypical dirty old man in the basement leering at his daughter's friends whenever they have sleepovers. He's like a perverted neo-Archie Bunker.

Except he has his own huge radio show and the license to make racist comments 24-7 as jokes.

[yoMAMA]

^ Pretty much, lol! I mean, he's the stereotypical dirty old man in the basement leering at his daughter's friends whenever they have sleepovers. He's like a perverted neo-Archie Bunker.

Except he has his own huge radio show and the license to make racist comments 24-7 as jokes.

WORD!

[Chester]

^ Pretty much, lol! I mean, he's the stereotypical dirty old man in the basement leering at his daughter's friends whenever they have sleepovers. He's like a perverted neo-Archie Bunker.
Not exactly. Stern's an equal-opportunity offender. He makes fun of everything.

Also, I hardly doubt Archie Bunker would think highly of same-sex marriages, which Stern has stood up for, consistently, in the past few weeks.

[krome]

Stern's an equal-opportunity offender. He makes fun of everything.
I disagree. He clearly has pet favorites - racial and otherwise. I rarely hear him making racist comments about hot white stripper-types, or namebrand white actors. But bring up "Chinese" in his presence and ching-chong accents, music and small d*cks are all but sure to follow like a shadow... He replicates the typical racial hierarchy in America. AMs on bottom and perpetual butt of jokes. In his decades of broadcasting, has an AM ever even been on his show or treated with the least modicum of respect?

I HIGHLY doubt it...

So, equal opportunity my *ss. He can kiss it on his way out. Ha ha ha - see how many women fake-flirt with him after he loses his show, now... BYE BYE SCHLOCK JOCK!!!!!! :biggrin:

[yoMAMA]

I like howard stern cauz he says that "he has the smallest penis in america" in his book....miss america or something like that".

[ShortNBitter]

Racial slurs "Jap, gook, chink, Chinaman have also been used.

I don't think he ever dares to use n*gger, though.

Howard Stern has taken a fast tailspin from politically-incorrect to flat-out racist. He worships blonde shiksas, white celebs, black jockstars to a lesser extent, and craps on everyone else. I actually used to listen to him too, but his time is up and I hope the door hits his pind*ck on the way out. He really just disgusts me now, and I don't think he has ever said anything about Asians other than making small d*ck jokes.

Bastard! I actually don't listen to the show, but this seems absolutely dispicable

[younggiftedandblack]

Stern pokes fun at EVERY racial and ethnic group on a daily basis. You listen every once in awhile and make assumptions.

But this isn't about him or what was or wasn't said. It's about government pressure dictating what we can and can't listen to in this country. People aren't paying attention to what the FCC is doing and that's the scary thing.

[kitty]

what pisses me off is that it took janet's boob for people to pull this guy -- meanwhile he's been like this for years.

and what's worse is how much of an audience he has. to me, that's worse than the show itself, but that he is pretty much endorsed by the American public.

[younggiftedandblack]

what pisses me off is that it took janet's boob for people to pull this guy -- meanwhile he's been like this for years.

and what's worse is how much of an audience he has. to me, that's worse than the show itself, but that he is pretty much endorsed by the American public.

KG whether you like Stern or not is a personal choice (I like his show). He didn't do anything on his show that hundreds of DJ's don't do on a daily. What gets me is the fact that noone filed a complaint and the government's increasing incroachment into what we can/can't listen to.

[krome]

Stern pokes fun at EVERY racial and ethnic group on a daily basis. You listen every once in awhile and make assumptions.
So, how does he racially denigrate white people? Or black guys, exactly?

[younggiftedandblack]

So, how does he racially denigrate white people? Or black guys, exactly?

Krome,

It's obvious you've only heard bits and pieces of his show. He just talks. That's it. He talks and pokes fun of everyone (no matter race, creed or color).
For the record it wasn't Stern who uttered the "N" word it was caller whom he promptly hung up on and rephrased the question in a more appropriate way.

But this post isn't going to change your mind and that's cool. You are entitled to like what you like. What I would like is for people to open their eyes and see what's going on in this country. Everyone is so focused the fact that he was taken off 6 stations that everything else is being completely ignored.

[krome]

^ No, seriously, I want to know how he denigrates whites and black dudes? I have heard his show before, and while he may make fun of white PEOPLE, he typically makes fun of them as PEOPLE based on their individual personalities, NOT their WHITENESS. When he "makes fun" of blacks guys, it usually revolves around how many white women they've had s*x with.

Both far cries from denigrating Asians as a RACE with the perpetual small d*ck syndrome. The "harmless fun" above are rooted in a modicum of respect, the offensive "fun" targeted at AMs is rooted in DISrespect. But, you're a BM, so maybe that's why you don't personally find it offensive? What's it to you, right? You probably enjoy Stern's stereotypical characterization of BMs as well-hung lady-magnets?

[younggiftedandblack]

^ No, seriously, I want to know how he denigrates whites and black dudes? I have heard his show before, and while he may make fun of white PEOPLE, he typically makes fun of them as PEOPLE based on their individual personalities, NOT their WHITENESS. When he "makes fun" of blacks guys, it usually revolves around how many white women they've had s*x with.

Both far cries from denigrating Asians as a RACE with the perpetual small d*ck syndrome. The "harmless fun" above are rooted in a modicum of respect, the offensive "fun" targeted at AMs is rooted in DISrespect. But, you're a BM, so maybe that's why you don't personally find it offensive? What's it to you, right? You probably enjoy Stern's stereotypical characterization of BMs as well-hung lady-magnets?

Much respect Krome,

But we're going to have agree to disagree on this one. I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you over whether he is/isn't the epitome of all things evil. I think he’s funny, you don’t. Enough said.

[nifer]

But this isn't about him or what was or wasn't said. It's about government pressure dictating what we can and can't listen to in this country. People aren't paying attention to what the FCC is doing and that's the scary thing.


exactly. i think that's the point most people are missing. on a slight tangent, i think its crazy how congress can organize a hearing so quickly after the janet/justin incident but on other (what i consider) more important issues like health care and education sit quietly on the backburner.

[Banana]

But we're going to have agree to disagree on this one. I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you over whether he is/isn't the epitome of all things evil. I think he’s funny, you don’t. Enough said.

Actually, Krome has a good point. Stern has never made fun of whites and blacks as a race and the reason why you don't want to get into a "pissing contest" is because you don't have any actual proof to debate what Krome is actually saying.

If Stern did, in fact, make fun of blacks as a racial demographic; I'm sure you could provide at least several examples since you are such an avid listener. I've been listening to Stern for quite a bit and can tell you that he has always made fun of Asians as a racial group. When Dustin Nguyen was on the show to promote VIP, he kept asking if Asians all pull rickshaws. When a black football player was on the show, he would ask him why he sucked in a particular game.

When it comes to blacks and whites, he makes fun of the individual. When it comes to Asians, Arabs, Native Americans, and to Latinos to a certain extent, it is *always* as a racial comment.

If you don't have the proof or don't want to admit that you, in fact, are wrong; please don't say that "there is no real argument." If you're going to debate one point of view, prepare to have some proof. Personally, I want you to prove me wrong on a subject like this. Please do.

This reminds me of the role of Ice Cube in the movie "Three Kings." Someone called an Arab a "dune coon" and was completely rebutted by Ice Cube which didn't approve of the word "coon" by his white counterpart. When he[white guy] referred to them as "Camel Jockeys," he was fine with it.

[younggiftedandblack]

I've been listening to Stern for quite a bit and can tell you that he has always made fun of Asians as a racial group. When Dustin Nguyen was on the show to promote VIP, he kept asking if Asians all pull rickshaws. When a black football player was on the show, he would ask him why he sucked in a particular game.

You mean like when he plays african drums in the background or talks in "ebonics" whenever he has rappers or other black guest on his show? Or better yet when he's talking about his childhood growing up in a black neighborhood.

Or yesterday when he was poking fun at Jews and they way they talk and the stereotype of them being penny pinchers?

Maybe it's the times when he and Arty poke fun at Italians and how they tend to butcher their own language?

If you don't have the proof or don't want to admit that you, in fact, are wrong; please don't say that "there is no real argument."

1. Where did I say there was no real argument?

2. I'm never wrong :biggrin:

My comment to you is the same as it was to Krome. You don't like his show I do. What does all this other bickering have to do with what the FCC is doing I have no idea.

[Cipherous]

I am pretty sure I've heard that fucker talk shit about Black dudes. but mainly, is a very indirect and subtle manner. He knows if he tries the same shit he does with Asian with Blacks, Black people would kick the living shit out of him.

Whenever the topic of big dicks comes up, Stern always mentions black guys (from the shows I've seen). Almost indirectly, he tries to make it out like the girls who goes for black guys are sluts who are in it for big dicks.

Thats pretty fucking degrading if you ask me. Some people, even Blacks, may find it funny because having a big dick is a positive attribute in this society. But I can sense the sarcasm of Stern. He means to degrade Blacks by saying such.

if whatever company feels as if Stern's show will lead to a downfall in their business....then its their choice.

I never liked the guy in the first place and don't really cares what happens to him.

[younggiftedandblack]

I never liked the guy in the first place and don't really cares what happens to him.

*sigh* But Cipherous it's not about HIM. That's what I'm trying to convey here. Everyone is caught up in Stern this and Stern that. Yet the topic of what the government is doing is being completely ignored. I'm not just talking about YW I'm arguing this point across several boards.

If you don't like him, fine I respect that. I just hate to see our govenment that likes to tout freedom of speech take that away from us.

[krome]

Banana - Exactly. My point with younggiftedandblack is that Stern DOES REINFORCE THE EXISTING RACIAL HIERARCHY and is NOT "equally offensive."

Now, I don't know about those black/Jew incidents you just mentioned, younggiftedandblack, I have never noticed them - not to say they haven't happened. I mean, honestly, 95% of his guests are big-t*tted blondes. But, I have seen black guests on his show like Snoop Dogg, but he did not attempt to speak in ebonics then. I don't doubt you've witnessed it, but how (un)common is it really?

Also, I don't think those are even in the same league, anyways. I mean, when was the last time he made a "small, dumb black brain" joke? Or a "big Jew nose" joke? Those are the real crude equivalents to "small Asian d*cks."

Moreso, even his tame Black/Jew jokes are far outweighed by the majority of times that he does treat them more "humanely" (or less inhumanely) or even subtly promoting their positive assets. AMs get a far more consistently race-based negative one-sided treatment. Again, far from equal.
Whenever the topic of big dicks comes up, Stern always mentions black guys (from the shows I've seen). Almost indirectly, he tries to make it out like the girls who goes for black guys are ----- who are in it for big dicks.

Thats pretty ------- degrading if you ask me. Some people, even Blacks, may find it funny because having a big dick is a positive attribute in this society.
Ok, maybe up in pseudo-intellectual ivory tower circles, one might call that "degrading," but IN THE REAL WORLD, I WHOLLY GUARANTEE YOU THAT NO MAN ALIVE WOULD EVER BE TRULY INSULTED IF PEOPLE THOUGHT HE HAD A BIG D*CK. I man, let's get real, now. And by contrast, telling a guy his d*ck is small is about the biggest cross-cultural insult you can make to a man. Fact is, BMs love playing up that image, as it truly helps them score more chicks. That is ONE stereotype you damn sure will never hear the NAACP complain about! Because, truthfully, it's EMPOWERING AS H*LL. Just ask guys like Tommy Lee! :biggrin: And Stern is just giving them more free advertising! So, I'm sure many other BMs like younggiftedandblack LOVE his show. If they really felt degraded by his constant "mandingo"-typing, I doubt they'd be fans defending his right to "free speech."

[ShortNBitter]

I'm sick of this; it's time to end descrimination ~ Hate Everybody!!

[Banana]

Oh, no. I agree that what the FCC is doing is completely out of line and we need less government regulation.

I just went offtopic to back up Krome's statements regarding Stern completely degrading an entire race. The better statement to say is that Stern doesn't attack blacks and whites as viciously as he does towards Asians, Arabs, etc. Had someone used the word "Chink" on the call as opposed to "Nigger," it would never have been edited out nor would Stern hang up on the caller.

As a matter of fact, you are wrong to a degree when you said he attacks everyone equally because he doesn't.

To Cipherous, he often refers to blacks as being sexually and physically superior than everyone and that isn't always bad nor can it always be taken as such. Sure, he can use it to insult like you just described but he has used it as a compliment many a time. There are "good" and "bad" stereotypes out there. Granted, no stereotypes about anyone is good regardless of what it might be but some of them can be used to portray in a positive light. IE: Big angry black guy and the smart Asian businessman.

I think we need to get back on topic before this thread gets deleted. Going off-topic was not my intention and I apologize but I'm sick and tired of whites and blacks saying that "Oh, he makes fun of everyone equally" when it's strictly bullshit.

It's *not* equal and they don't attack everyone with the same ferocity. Know a show that *is* racist against Asians from time to time but I *do* find equal? Southpark is one of them.

[krome]

CASE-IN-POINT (http://www.nydailynews.com/02-27-2004/news/gossip/story/168366p-147100c.html) - younggiftedandblack - you really think he would have done this with a white or black reporter? Fact is, Stern is yet another Asian-hating Jew.
http://www.sallykirkland.com/images/gallery/howard.jpg
-----------------
http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/522-chyang_tihau.JPG
"Chang called Stern while the shock jock was on the air yesterday morning to talk about radio giant Clear Channel's decision to drop his show. But he became entangled in a bit with Stern - which prompted his bosses at WNBC to reassign the reporter.

As Chang tried to conduct an interview, Stern baited him with stereotypical questions tied to his Asian heritage - such as whether he ever pulled a rickshaw or played Chinese checkers, or if sexual stereotypes about Asian men were true.

Chang diplomatically deflected all of the jibes until Stern asked him if he liked Chinese food. Chang fired back: Do you like matzo ball soup?

Stern gave a hard time to other TV reporters as well - he asked WCBS reporter Katie McGee to show up in a thong bikini"
-----------------
You see the difference here? He makes fun of Asian peoples' RACE, not the person. He doesn't see us as INDIVIDUALS (definition of racism), but as a RACE of small-d*cked midgets. Whereas he doesn't ask this non-Asian female reporter anything about eating black pudding or haggis. He pokes fun at her, BUT NON-RACIALLY. This is CLASSIC STERN. CASE-IN-POINT. You feel me yet, bro? He is MOST CERTAINLY UNequally offensive - and in fact mirrors the oppressive racial hierarchy that AMs face in America - yet most casual observers (even yourself) deny.

[Banana]

The only time that I heard another radio personality attack a black person based on race on the air was when Rush told a black reporter to "Call him back when he gets that bone out of his nose."

I'm sure there were others but none of them would be punished had the target been Asian Americans.

[krome]

Yup, Stern just can NEVER see past our race. To him, each of us is just another "g00k" or "Chinaman." With requisite small d*cks, of course. It don't matter if you're a famous actor, writer, reporter, athlete, musician, etc - ALL WE ARE TO STERN IS SMALL-D*CKED, RICKSHAW-PULLING, A&F CARICATURED CHINAMEN - and we will never be more than that. Talk about dehumanizing and degrading!

"Equal opportunity" offender MY *SS. :mad:

[younggiftedandblack]

I'm sick and tired of whites and blacks saying that "Oh, he makes fun of everyone equally" when it's strictly bullshit.

Point recieved and understood. :smile:

[kitty]

KG whether you like Stern or not is a personal choice (I like his show). He didn't do anything on his show that hundreds of DJ's don't do on a daily. What gets me is the fact that noone filed a complaint and the government's increasing incroachment into what we can/can't listen to.


I realize it's a matter of personal opinion. And while I don't mean any offense to you, but I think it says a lot of things about society if people encourage Stern and shock dj's of his ilk to say whatever offensive and mysognistic things he wants on the air, and even encourage it...

My theory is this -- the white mainstream *loves* to discriminate, but because of the confounded increase in outspoken minority activists, have no outlet for hateful speech. So they listen to Stern, and protect him under free speech (and profit margin) defenses so that they can feel good about being able to, by proxy, say all the nasty things about minorities, gays, and women that they would love to say in real life.

I was forced to listen to his show regularly by my co-worker who would drive with me every day for a total of five hours. It was so offensive, it made me want to puke. Meanwhile, hip hop artists are censored when they say 'weed'. What kind of double standard is this?

krome - the 'big dick' stereotype is just as offensive as the 'small dick' one. being characterized as asexual and impotent is hurtful and wrong, but so is being characterized as nothing but a sexual predator and man-beast, not to mention mindless rapist and agressor.

But to get back to the topic at hand, I think YG&B brings up a good point. This isn't a Stern crucifixtion thread. I think he should've been pulled a long time ago, but I do thing censorship with the gov't is getting ridiculous. The recent hype over censoring all things that might 'upset the kids' kind of reminds me of the patriarchal fervour that followed 9/11. It'll all die out in a month.

[krome]

krome - the 'big dick' stereotype is just as offensive as the 'small dick' one. being characterized as asexual and impotent is hurtful and wrong, but so is being characterized as nothing but a sexual predator and man-beast, not to mention mindless rapist and agressor.
BWAHAHAHA! Get out of your ivory tower and into the REAL WORLD, GIRL! The first is a compliment, the 2nd an unequivocal, lowdown, cross-cultural, universal insult. THEY ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "EQUALLY OFFENSIVE!"

If it was so offensive, then why do men brag about it all the time? And why do many BLACK MEN, in particular, brag about having big black chocolate sticks, etc etc - if it was so insulting and degrading? Please, out of your PC fantasy world. :biggrin:

Maybe cuz you're not a man, you would never understand... It's very telling that none of the GUYS here disagreed with me on that point - ONLY YOU. And YES, likely because you are a woman. Trust me, no man alive will take genuine offense to being accused of having a large dong, in and of itself. But, if you ever find one, LET US KNOW! :biggrin:

Now rapist is another story - but Tommy Lee has a huge knob, yet has not been accused of rape. So have many other p0rn stars and celebs like Dennis Rodman. Those other variables are independent, so don't get 'em twisted.

[rice cracker]

Ivory tower? So in the real world does the model minority myth also serve Asians well? Sorry, Krome, but a stereotype is a stereotype, and they all have negative repercussians. Maybe people are complacent being stereotyped as big dicked or mathematical geniuses, but it doesn't make it right. They're fallacies, "positive" when first seen, but the basis is still ignorance. And if you're not going to complain about the positive stereotypes, you can't bitch about the negative ones.

[Banana]

I agree with Krome's counter-statement but I can't rule out Kitty's statement either.

Kitty's point is correct. It *is* bad to be stereotyped as being a sexual predator. Just the other day, I witnessed this first hand. There were 2 elevators in the lobby of my building. I was standing in the lobby next to two young white females and a black guy about my age. Both elevators hit the lobby at the same same time and doors to both opened. I was closer to the left one so got in the left one whilst the black guy was getting into the right one because he was closer. The 2 white girls were on the right side so they had to go out of their way to avoid the right elevator.

I guess it's hard to explain unless I actually draw out a diagram for you but I couldn't help but feel really bad for the guy. I've talked to him many times and he's a really upstanding guy. He wasn't dressed in a "thuggish" manner and is well-spoken.

But I digress. Regarding the penis debate, I do have to agree with Krome though. When Stern or any other white man keeps referring to black men that way, it's almost never in a "bad" fashion. Never. It's almost used to make whites feel inferior.

You can spin stereotypes around, yes but the core meaning remains.

IE: All Asians are smart but they use their brains to steal secrets. All blacks are bigger than everyone else so they're all rapists.

However, it's rarely used in this fashion but it's a possibility. Only white supremacists use this tactic all the time because they don't want you to have any *good* stereotypes.

Ivory tower? So in the real world does the model minority myth also serve Asians well? Sorry, Krome, but a stereotype is a stereotype, and they all have negative repercussians. Maybe people are complacent being stereotyped as big dicked or mathematical geniuses, but it doesn't make it right. They're fallacies, "positive" when first seen, but the basis is still ignorance. And if you're not going to complain about the positive stereotypes, you can't bitch about the negative ones.

I already discussed this. Though all stereotypes are bad, some can be discerned as "good" and some as "bad." People regard "bad" stereotypes as ones that hinder them social, economically, or financially. People regard "good" stereotypes as ones that benefit them social, economically, or financially. They also use them to promote themselves to get ahead or use them to degrade someone else.

There is a big difference and believe it or not, a "massive" and I mean "massive" amount of people either believe in them or reinforce them.

Regarding your "And if you're not going to complain about the positive stereotypes, you can't bitch about the negative ones," this is very interesting. I find that someone, from any racial demographic, that uses steretypes to promote or degrade, themselves or someone else, with stereotypes are best fought the same way.

IE: Any black person that says Asian people are short dicked, a response like "All blacks are thiefs" would provoke a very strong reaction.

[kitty]

BWAHAHAHA! Get out of your ivory tower and into the REAL WORLD, GIRL! The first is a compliment, the 2nd an unequivocal, lowdown, cross-cultural, universal insult. THEY ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "EQUALLY OFFENSIVE!"

If it was so offensive, then why do men brag about it all the time? And why do many BLACK MEN, in particular, brag about having big black chocolate sticks, etc etc - if it was so insulting and degrading? Please, out of your PC fantasy world. :biggrin:


Do they? As rice_cracker so articulately elucidated, there are positive and negative aspects of every stereotype. Obviously, stereotypes are awful, but not because the stereotype you, krome, are associated with is a bad one, and therefore any one opposite, must be good, but because stereotypes allow people to judge you based on your outward appearance, and lump you in with another group based on a superficial, and wholly unrelated charactersitic, and make illogical assumptions based on them.

To say that asian men have small dicks renders them impotent and feminized but a) this was not always the case. Asian men used to be stereotyped as sexual agressors much like black men (check your history!), and this was never a 'good thing'. Particularly when Asian men were being used for their exotic hyper sexuality by curious white women, and then were being convicted for falsely charged rape when the women tired of them. b) One could argue that if asian men have smaller dicks, they are less hypersexualized, more caring, and are able to think more clearly and are more intelligent. Still a stereotype, but it's possible to conceive of the small dick stereotype as being positive in a work/business situation.

Similarly, the big dick stereotype might get you many a woman who might think all black men are huge Sambos, but it also stereotypes you as mindless, unable to think clearly, and unintelligent, grunting slobs who think with the little head instead of the big one. For a black man trying to make his way in the business world as a doctor, businessman, or lawyer, being stereotyped as hypersexualized and a sexual aggressor can work against him on many levels.

So, please, don't assume that just because you feel hurt by one stereotype, that the other stereotype must be great. Just because men like to brag about their dick size, doesn't mean that being stereotyped as the perpetual rapist is a good thing.


Maybe cuz you're not a man, you would never understand... It's very telling that none of the GUYS here disagreed with me on that point - ONLY YOU. And YES, likely because you are a woman. Trust me, no man alive will take genuine offense to being accused of having a large dong, in and of itself. But, if you ever find one, LET US KNOW! :biggrin:


Oh yeah, I'm not a man, so I must not have anything positive to add to a discussion about dick stereotypes. How sexist is that?

[rice cracker]

Regarding your "And if you're not going to complain about the positive stereotypes, you can't bitch about the negative ones," this is very interesting. I find that someone, from any racial demographic, that uses steretypes to promote or degrade, themselves or someone else, with stereotypes are best fought the same way.

IE: Any black person that says Asian people are short dicked, a response like "All blacks are thiefs" would provoke a very strong reaction.

Actually, I meant more like, "Oh, Asians don't have small dicks! That's a terrible stereotype. Oh, but we are pretty smart and loyal to our families."

You either break down stereotypes, and let people see you as a person, and an individual, or you take the bad with the good. You can't have it both ways. Basically, by agreeing with certain "positive" stereotypes you are acknowledging that "negative" stereotypes are possibly true as well.

[kitty]

I don't see how fighting a stereotype with a stereotype does anything but perpetuate them.

[younggiftedandblack]

I tend to not get offended by alot so I often make the mistake that others don't either and it's hard for me at times to register why certain things upset people. For that I apologize.

I fear as I've said before that everyone will be so caught up in the fact that he's being targeted that they'll miss the bigger picture. I also fear that this may just be the tip of the iceberg of things to come.

[Cipherous]

*sigh* But Cipherous it's not about HIM. That's what I'm trying to convey here. Everyone is caught up in Stern this and Stern that. Yet the topic of what the government is doing is being completely ignored. I'm not just talking about YW I'm arguing this point across several boards.

If you don't like him, fine I respect that. I just hate to see our govenment that likes to tout freedom of speech take that away from us.

As it stated in the article, unless I read it wrong. Its the cable company itself, not the actual US government that is yanking Stern.

If the government is taking away free speech, I am sure that porn and the KKK and the extreme left would be the first to go before Stern.

[Banana]

Kitty, with all due respect, you could go into more and more research regarding this issue but I think the key point is this: It's better to be stereotyped as being big than small. At least it is in this society. We promote what we think is good for us (penis, being smart).

By the way, does anyone else notice that white males are the ones that are so infatuated with penis size? What's up with that?

[Cipherous]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4375426/

Howard Stern suspended
Clear Channel pulls his show from
all of its stations
Radio personality Howard Stern was suspended from Clear Channel stations.

Updated: 1:11 a.m. ET Feb. 26, 2004NEW YORK - Shock jock Howard Stern’s show was yanked Wednesday from Clear Channel Communications Inc. radio stations after an incident on his show Tuesday, the first casualty of its zero tolerance policy on indecency.



I don't see anything about government involvement in there.

EA games doesn't allow any type of gore or blood or any "unsuitable" material.

The NFL didn't like Janet's booby and will never hire MTV again.

some corporations have their own policies. And let them.

oops nevermind, I didn't click the link.

I didn't know that they were fined by the communications commitee.

[younggiftedandblack]

As it stated in the article, unless I read it wrong. Its the cable company itself, not the actual US government that is yanking Stern.

If the government is taking away free speech, I am sure that porn and the KKK and the extreme left would be the first to go before Stern.

It is the government to a degree. There is a special congressional committee that the president of CC had to appear before and explain about the programming on his stations. The day before they pulled the plug on his radio show on their stations. He was waging a war against certain congressmen/women on that panel airing some of their dirty laundry over the air. It's crazy that we have such a committee in the 1st place IMHO.

[krome]

rice_cracker - The model minority myth does have some statistical basis to it - if you look at education, income and crime stats. But it's far harder to gauge its overall net impact because it encompasses far more factors and also affects institutionalized policy.

The d*ck size stereotype is MUCH simpler, though. It's a single variable that is easily measured (pun intended :biggrin:). And there are no related government programs designed to artificially attempt to ensure any type of equity in the field. So, you got what you got, and in no case is a small d*ck an asset or not an insult to a man. By contrast, large d*cks are universally praised and there have even been rap songs about them, while others have been devoted to dissing "sh0rt-d*cked men." So, this ain't even debatable. Again, I hear no men here objecting to this assertion, only women... Perhaps you all should take a casual poll amongst the men in your lives?
And if you're not going to complain about the positive stereotypes, you can't bitch about the negative ones.
True, but when was the last time you heard the NAACP complain about blacks being stereotyped as having monster dongs? Never. In fact, most black men seem to enjoy actively or passively promoting the stereotype, and certainly NONE go out of their way to disprove it - as they do with other stereotypes. Those actions alone should tell you how "offensive" they find it. That's something they love bragging about, in fact, along with the self-serving "white men can't jump" and "white men can't dance" stereotypes. Can you blame them? It's only human. Instead of combating truth vs false, most of us end up fighting for positive vs negative (regardless of truthfulness of either).

Personally, I work hardest at combating negative AND false (or exaggerated) stereotypes. I work least at combating stereotypes with some truth, "positive" or "negative." Hey, reality is simply not PC. Never was, isn't now, and never will be. So, I can't be REAL AND PC. It's one or the other. And I choose to be real. I choose to tell the emperor he has no clothes on. I choose to be Simon Cowell in a world full of Paula's and Randy's. I guess that makes me the guy everybody loves to hate.

Now, stereotyping INDIVIDUALS blindly is wrong, but one can also make valid statistical GROUP generalizations based upon the data. For example, I can say most black people have kinky hair. Stereotyping? Yes. True? Yes. Now, if I assume that any given random black has kinky hair, then I am stepping onto thinner ice (although that trait is fairly universal amongst blacks and thus not a great example). Cuz, it's when you apply GROUP stats to INDIVIDUAL data points, that statistical reality mutates into "groupism" or "racism."

But that's exactly what Howard does - most specifically with AMs. That's not "reality," that's plain racism. Also, he consistently harps on "positive" stereotypes of blacks/whites but "negative" stereotypes of AMs. So, I can honestly say that he is NOT "equally offensive." Which as I've shown, he most certainly ISN'T.

[younggiftedandblack]

I don't see anything about government involvement in there.

EA games doesn't allow any type of gore or blood or any "unsuitable" material.

The NFL didn't like Janet's booby and will never hire MTV again.

some corporations have their own policies. And let them.

That is true, but CC has been airing his show for over 10 years. The one in question was no differnt then the hundreds of others he's done.

This is the same company that owns radio stations that pump out crappy POP and Hip Hop music.

[Banana]

Basically, by agreeing with certain "positive" stereotypes you are acknowledging that "negative" stereotypes are possibly true as well.

Very insightful. Never thought of it that way.

I fear as I've said before that everyone will be so caught up in the fact that he's being targeted that they'll miss the bigger picture. I also fear that this may just be the tip of the iceberg of things to come.

We already acknowledged that nothing good can come of the government sticking it's hands into the pie.

As it stated in the article, unless I read it wrong. Its the cable company itself, not the actual US government that is yanking Stern.

If the government is taking away free speech, I am sure that porn and the KKK and the extreme left would be the first to go before Stern.

Yes but the government and FCC are applying an extreme amount of pressure which is causing them to yank Stern so that makes them directly responsible. Many of those porn and KKK sites are either on private servers or don't receive any government regulation and subsidies.

[Cipherous]

It is the government to a degree. There is a special congressional committee that the president of CC had to appear before and explain about the programming on his stations. The day before they pulled the plug on his radio show on their stations. He was waging a war against certain congressmen/women on that panel airing some of their dirty laundry over the air. It's crazy that we have such a committee in the 1st place IMHO.


no you were right, I didn't click the link. I just read the article on the post. I had no idea that the commitee fined the company for Stern. I whole heartly agree with you on this issue now that I found out that the shiw was fined. I just thought the company just decided to cut Stern without any extrinsic influences.

I am usually a left wing liberal and I am against this type of shit.

First the patriot act then this. Whats next? Prohibition?

[krome]

b) One could argue that if asian men have smaller dicks, they are less hypersexualized, more caring, and are able to think more clearly and are more intelligent. Still a stereotype, but it's possible to conceive of the small dick stereotype as being positive in a work/business situation.

Similarly, the big dick stereotype might get you many a woman who might think all black men are huge Sambos, but it also stereotypes you as mindless, unable to think clearly, and unintelligent, grunting slobs who think with the little head instead of the big one. For a black man trying to make his way in the business world as a doctor, businessman, or lawyer, being stereotyped as hypersexualized and a sexual aggressor can work against him on many levels.
And yet, 56% of non-FOB AFs outmarry, many citing "small Asian d*cks" as the alleged culprit, regardless of if they've ever even dated AMs (see clubvibe.com, Kelly Hu, etc). Certainly, none of them bring up the positive qualities you questionably managed to weakly associate with small penii.

By contrast, BMs enjoy extremely high undying loyalty from BFs, and even outdate FAR more than they do. Apparently, the dumb, over-s*xed predator weak connotation is either inconsequential, or works in their favor.

Again, real world here, please.

And, might I add, all those d*ck size-associated qualities are rather gross stereotyping that are surprising coming from you - someone who claimed she was AGAINST stereotyping.
Obviously, stereotypes are awful, but not because the stereotype you, krome, are associated with is a bad one, and therefore any one opposite, must be good, but because stereotypes allow people to judge you based on your outward appearance, and lump you in with another group based on a superficial, and wholly unrelated charactersitic, and make illogical assumptions based on them.
Like judging people by their d*ck size and making illogical assumptions about them? I realize you were just hypothetically speculating what others might think, but maybe some are more revealing about what YOU think? I mean, unless you gleaned these alleged subconscious thoughts from actual conversation or an article somewhere? Where'd you get those assumptions from, exactly?
no you were right, I didn't click the link. I just read the article on the post. I had no idea that the commitee fined the company for Stern. I whole heartly agree with you on this issue now that I found out that the shiw was fined. I just thought the company just decided to cut Stern without any extrinsic influences.
Interestingly, Colin Powell's son Michael heads the FCC and is a really corporate sell-out a-hole, by all accounts...

[nifer]

As it stated in the article, unless I read it wrong. Its the cable company itself, not the actual US government that is yanking Stern.

If the government is taking away free speech, I am sure that porn and the KKK and the extreme left would be the first to go before Stern.


actually, the gorverment IS limiting (or at least attempting to) free speach. last year's FCC ruling about megamedia corporations (clear channel, infinity) being able to own more than one outlet in a market. this monopoly would have made it extremely hard for opposing views to be heard.

[Cipherous]

rice_cracker - The model minority myth does have some statistical basis to it - if you look at education, income and crime stats. But it's far harder to gauge its overall net impact because it encompasses far more factors and also affects institutionalized policy.


while it does have some statisical data to the minority myth, alot of different factors are over looked.

-almost like the majority of the Asians who are here are born overseas. Therefore, if they can afford a plane ticket here, they're the elite of their respective country (with the exception of the SE asian refugees). Since they are the elite, they tend to be richer and more educated. Thus you can see some of the ivy league statistics, median income and what have you.

-Asians earn more income because they usually have more sources of income in their families. I forget the actual numbers but the average Asian household has like 2.5 workers in their families.

-net crime rate, again...could be attributed to social class where Asians who immigrant here come from. If you think Asians are less likely to commit crime, you can look at the drugs from SE Asia, corruption in India and China, prostitution in all of Asia and what not.


True, but when was the last time you heard the NAACP complain about blacks being stereotyped as having monster dongs? Never. In fact, most black men seem to enjoy actively or passively promoting the stereotype, and certainly NONE go out of their way to disprove it - as they do with other stereotypes. Those actions alone should tell you how "offensive" they find it. That's something they love bragging about, in fact, along with the self-serving "white men can't jump" and "white men can't dance" stereotypes. Can you blame them? It's only human. Instead of combating truth vs false, most of us end up fighting for positive vs negative (regardless of truthfulness of either).


I think the NAACP has alot more to worry about than the dick size of Black men. Afterall, it is shown that a black person without a criminal record is less likely to get hired than a white person with a criminal record. The average income of Blacks are 25K, whereas Whites are like near 37K or something like that. Amongst other problems, this is only scratching the surface.


Now, stereotyping individuals blindly is wrong, but one can also make valid statistical generalizations based upon the data. For example, I can say most black people have kinky hair. Stereotyping? Yes. True? Yes. Now, if I assume that any given random black has kinky hair, then I am stepping onto thinner ice (although that trait is fairly universal amongst blacks and thus not a great example). When you apply GROUP stats to INDIVIDUAL data points, that is when statistical reality mutates into "groupism" or "racism."

But that's exactly what Howard does. Also, he consistently harps on "positive" stereotypes of blacks/whites but "negative" stereotypes of AMs. So, I can honestly say that he is NOT "equally offensive." Which as I've shown, he most certainly ISN'T.

Now, I'll respect your opinion but I'll stick to mine: people think what they want to think. How they percieve reality is due to what knowledge they know. Thats why you seldom see mathematicians or scientist making claims without proper evidence.

The more you know, the more you'll find out theres more to know.

-Just 40 years ago, women were said to lack the rational and acumen that men were capable of.

-The Irish were the "niggers" of the north once and all the stereotypes of the Irish back then were very similiar to Black stereotypes today.

-Koreans in Japan score a lower IQ score because the Japanese look down upon them in society. However, Korean Americans and Japanese Americans score the same. Hell, even most asians can't tell the difference between Koreans and Japanese.

-Any anthropologist would tell you that its impossible to classify race. Therefore, its impossible to isolate one trait to one group entirely. Aborigines have blonde hair, a trait widely believe to be isolated only to the caucasian group.

Read the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond. You'll see why African nations are the way they are and why the West are the way the way they are.

Ultimately if you learn more, you'll have more information to debunk me or even debunk yourself.

[krome]

almost like the majority of the Asians who are here are born overseas. Therefore, if they can afford a plane ticket here, they're the elite of their respective country (with the exception of the SE asian refugees). Since they are the elite, they tend to be richer and more educated. Thus you can see some of the ivy league statistics, median income and what have you.
"Elite" compared to who? Americans? :confused: Surely you jest! Well, some are more educated and relatively "rich" enough THERE to afford a plane ticket HERE, but still poor enough HERE to come in as lower-middle class or below HERE. My own father came here practically penniless, he had just enough for the flight over. He worked, supported his family and went to night school to get his MBA. His story is hardly unique, either. So, it's a downright false insult to attribute all of our success to "coming from elite backgrounds." Keep in mind that many of the Baby Boomer immigrants were fleeing the Commies. They ate bitter in China. "Elite" there simply meant you weren't a farmer. It would be considered poverty level here. In fact, most of China today only make a homeopathic fraction of what we do and would all be considered poverty level by our standards. So, "elite" backgrounds are a stereotypical liberal excuse. Think about it. And think about why they're even making excuses for our academic success at all?
Any anthropologist would tell you that its impossible to classify race. Therefore, its impossible to isolate one trait to one group entirely. Aborigines have blonde hair, a trait widely believe to be isolated only to the caucasian group.
Then why are we here on Yellowworld? Let's not use PC science to override common-sense here. Yes, there are racial genetic bell curves known as "races." If you understand bell curves, you know that there is a lot of variance and also cross-over. Doesn't disprove them at all - that's an inherent part of them, in fact. Have you ever taken statistics?

Or, is Shaq Chinese? Is Yao black? If I ask an anthropologist, could he tell me? I'm confused. :confused: :rolleyes:

This is all going off on a tangent, though. If you really want to compare racial genetics, that's a whole 'nother thread! So, back to d*ck size! I mean, uh, Stern's "unequal offensiveness." I mean, uh, FCC crackdowns!

[kitty]

And yet, 56% of non-FOB AFs outmarry, many citing "small Asian d*cks" as the alleged culprit, regardless of if they've ever even dated AMs (see clubvibe.com, Kelly Hu, etc). Certainly, none of them bring up the positive qualities you questionably managed to weakly associate with small penii.


Does the study you cite which generated the number of 56% asian females outmarrying actually have a breakdown of rationale, including a percent of that percent that actually said 'I am not marrying an Asian man because they all have small dicks'?


By contrast, BMs enjoy extremely high undying loyalty from BFs, and even outdate FAR more than they do. Apparently, the dumb, over-s*xed predator weak connotation is either inconsequential, or works in their favor.

Again, real world here, please.


I am working in the real world. The one where there's more to life, success and self-image than being able to fuck.


And, might I add, all those d*ck size-associated qualities are rather gross stereotyping that are surprising coming from you - someone who claimed she was AGAINST stereotyping.

Like judging people by their d*ck size and making illogical assumptions about them? I realize you were just hypothetically speculating what others might think, but maybe some are more revealing about what YOU think? I mean, unless you gleaned these alleged subconscious thoughts from actual conversation or an article somewhere? Where'd you get those assumptions from, exactly?


I was simply giving you a counterargument, that if you were to ascribe stereotypes some value, and categorize one as 'good' and one as 'bad', you would have a hard time finding a stereotype that had not positive ramifications. I mention it mainly because you are so quick to call the big dick stereotype a good thing, but you don't address the possibility that stereotype may have very negative interpretations as well as positive ones. Similarly, the small dick stereotype may also have positive interpretations.

I don't weakly associate small dicks and the intelligent stereotypes -- men are perceived as either being robust, very physical, and hypersexualized, or otherwise desexualized but intelligent. When this latter stereotype became attached to Asian men, it was a trade-off ... it seems that men must be perceived as being controlled by one of two heads, neither one nor neither. Thus, for you to say that the small dick stereotype is wholly negative, but simultaneously to say that the model minority myth (and the stereotype that Asian men are more intelligent and clustered around science and engineering careers) is based on fact is... well, wholly misguided.

Regardless, back to the topic at hand, I think the FCC is trying to control the wildfire of accusations by those who fear for the innocence of their children. Should there be censorship? I don't think censorship itself is bad (though I was upset that Stern had such an audience, but I don't think he should've been censored, I just don't think he shoulda been successful) I do think there is merit to placing disclaimers before questionable material, so that parents are able to make the choice.

I think there shoulda been a giant disclaimer around the half-time show, just so parents who feel okay about showing their kids a sport centered around wonton violence but get flabbergasted at the thought of mild sexual innuendo can turn the channel. The problem with the boobie was that MTV couldn't tell us anything about what they had in store, so there was no way for parents to prep themselves or their kids.

Rather than go into a censorship shitstorm, I think they should just institute better (and fairer) means of warning parents.

[krome]

Thus, for you to say that the small dick stereotype is wholly negative, but simultaneously to say that the model minority myth (and the stereotype that Asian men are more intelligent and clustered around science and engineering careers) is based on fact is... well, wholly misguided.
Well, I say you're making the "weak" assumption that IQ and d*ck size are inversely-proportional. You keep falsely bringing in extraneous questinably-associated variables in the question when I specifically limited the discussion to d*ck size in and of itself. I mean, you keep trying to correlate d*ck size to character traits, instead of just talking about d*ck size alone. So, in reality, you are only confirming my assertion that BIG D*CK = GOOD and SMALL D*CK = BAD BECAUSE YOU MUST RESORT TO USING EXTRANEOUS FACTORS/ARGUMENTS. YOU CANNOT SIMPLY ARGUE THAT SMALL PENII ARE GOOD IN AND OF THEMSELVES, NOW CAN YOU?

So, go ahead, tell me why small penii are physically "better" (or not worse and bigger ones better) - s*xually for women or in whatever other natural functions they have? All other factors being equal, do you prefer small penii?

[yoMAMA]

I think one of the reasons black females are very "loyal" to black males is that during slavery, black women had the unfortunate experience of being raped by their white plantation masters, and they don't trust white men ever since that.

[Cipherous]

"Elite" compared to who? Americans? :confused: Surely you jest! Well, some are more educated and relatively "rich" enough THERE to afford a plane ticket HERE, but still poor enough HERE to come in as lower-middle class or below HERE. My own father came here practically penniless, he had just enough for the flight over. He worked, supported his family and went to night school to get his MBA. His story is hardly unique, either. So, it's a downright false insult to attribute all of our success to "coming from elite backgrounds." Keep in mind that many of the Baby Boomer immigrants were fleeing the Commies. They ate bitter in China. "Elite" there simply meant you weren't a farmer. It would be considered poverty level here. In fact, most of China today only make a homeopathic fraction of what we do and would all be considered poverty level by our standards. So, "elite" backgrounds are a stereotypical liberal excuse. Think about it. And think about why they're even making excuses for our academic success at all?


Elite compared to other Asians of course. One would be stupid assume that the average Asian over in Asia even compare to the average American here. When I mean elite, I mean the educated class over in Asia. Most of the Asians who come from India and East Asia are usually the doctors, engineers, STUDENTS, and what have you (the legal ones anyway and if the poor ones do manage to come here, its due the family reunification or asylum). Are Asians poor when they come over here? Yes because even the rich Asians really can't compare to middle class Americans here (its all relative). I know several asians who come here are dirt poor but, as unfortunate as it sounds, they're actually the elite of their respective country.


Then why are we here on Yellowworld? Let's not use PC science to override common-sense here. Yes, there are racial genetic bell curves known as "races." If you understand bell curves, you know that there is a lot of variance and also cross-over. Doesn't disprove them at all - that's an inherent part of them, in fact. Have you ever taken statistics?


actually my friend, I am math/comp sci major (how Asian of me eh). I have taken stastics but number theory and the like is mainly my course. But from what I remember sample sizes do play a very important role in the accuracy of experiments and surverys. Do you know that no data is ever perfect especially when you don't control all the factors(or even know what the factors are)? Its hard enough to see the correlation between two factors muchless whatever different factors are involved in determinding differences of ethnic bell curves.

about Bell curves:
Bell curves on the X axis are the IQ's and Y's is the amount of people in that range. I could give you any bell curve (with however I obtained that information) and ask you to derive a conclustion from that. Right? I could pick a bunch of Asian math teachers and use my data against a sample of bunch of Black prison inmates. Although extreme examples, I hope you get the point (there is a disparity between the average White, average hispanic, average Asian, etc). Is that type of experiment fair?

Its like me givng you a bell curve of where Asian dick sizes rate. One would question it wouldn't it? Especially if its not favorable towards whoever is disagreeing with it. Would you not question the height? The diet?

We can go into all the nitty details about how much money and how much resources is needed to minimize error in such experiments. And I doubt the likes of Rushton ever had.

Like I said people think what they want to think. Just like the people at stormfront, model minority and people like you and me.

Well, I say you're making the "weak" assumption that IQ and d*ck size are inversely-proportional. You keep falsely bringing in extraneous questinably-associated variables in the question when I specifically limited the discussion to d*ck size in and of itself. I mean, you keep trying to correlate d*ck size to character traits, instead of just talking about d*ck size alone. So, in reality, you are only confirming my assertion that BIG D*CK = GOOD and SMALL D*CK = BAD BECAUSE YOU MUST RESORT TO USING EXTRANEOUS FACTORS/ARGUMENTS. YOU CANNOT SIMPLY ARGUE THAT SMALL PENII ARE GOOD IN AND OF THEMSELVES, NOW CAN YOU?

So, go ahead, tell me why small penii are physically "better" (or not worse and bigger ones better) - s*xually for women or in whatever other natural functions they have? All other factors being equal, do you prefer small penii?

so let me guess you rather have a 12 incher than a 4 incher?

Would you go walk around in spandex shorts all day and purposely show off your crouch to all the ladies?

would you purposely change your pants and underwear in public just to give off the notion that you have a big dick?

well my friend, if so...there are penis enlargment pills and even sugical procedures to make those dreams a reality. So I guess Asian men aren't as fucked as you thought we were.

[krome]

Elite compared to other Asians of course. One would be stupid assume that the average Asian over in Asia even compare to the average American here.
So, wouldn't that still put such Asians at a socioeconomic/cultural/language DISADVANTAGE over other Americans, then? Yet, Asians outscore even American WHITES, on average - who have every advantage IN THE BOOK! So, it's misleading for liberals to use another standard to define Asians as "elite," when they should be using the AMERICAN standard and define them as "poor" or "lower middle class," no? So, there goes that theory...

Well, bell curve accuracy goes up with sample sizes, but you can also get a increasingly accurate models with increasingly random (if smaller) sample sizes, too. In any case, debating the accuracy of racial IQs or d*ck size sampling is better saved for another thread. So far, from the available data, there do appear to be slight racial differences, though. Yea, you heard me, lol. I don't presonally see why that's such a big deal as every bell curve has huge variance and there's still plenty of crossover between them. It's only when laymen like Stern misinterpret and overinterpret such differences that they become problems and inaccurate. But again, that's a different debate in itself.

[kitty]

Well, I say you're making the "weak" assumption that IQ and d*ck size are inversely-proportional. You keep falsely bringing in extraneous questinably-associated variables in the question when I specifically limited the discussion to d*ck size in and of itself. I mean, you keep trying to correlate d*ck size to character traits, instead of just talking about d*ck size alone. So, in reality, you are only confirming my assertion that BIG D*CK = GOOD and SMALL D*CK = BAD BECAUSE YOU MUST RESORT TO USING EXTRANEOUS FACTORS/ARGUMENTS. YOU CANNOT SIMPLY ARGUE THAT SMALL PENII ARE GOOD IN AND OF THEMSELVES, NOW CAN YOU?

So, go ahead, tell me why small penii are physically "better" (or not worse and bigger ones better) - s*xually for women or in whatever other natural functions they have? All other factors being equal, do you prefer small penii?

I never said that having a small penis was better or worse than not having a small penis. I merely said that the stereotype could be perceived as positively affecting Asian men, as much as the stereotype of large penises may negatively affect African American men. This is all in argument against the idea that there is such a thing as a 'positive' stereotype in the first place.

You need to calm down. Obviously the topic of small dicks is a touchy one and you are jumping to many conclusions. You need to realize that I am merely giving you another perspective on stereotypes... specifically that there is no good stereotype (including the one about having a big dick).

Regarding the Bell Curve concept... you do realize that this book basically used graphs like the bell curve figures to decide that one race was genetically superior than another. That our successes and whatnot are based on our genetic makeup and are thus predisposed...? It used comparisons like IQ to ethnicity to make assumptions about race, without taking into account social factors like education, economy, etc. Trends do not have a solely genetic root, but this book completely disregards all factors the ones it wants to use, and draws all sorts of negative conclusions -- it is basically bad science used to rationalize racism.

I really hope you don't actually buy into this white supremecist/racist bullshit. It rationalized eugenics, for crying out loud!

edit: here's a review of the Bell Curve that might help you.
http://goinside.com/98/3/postmod.html

[krome]

I merely said that the stereotype could be perceived as positively affecting Asian men
It's not touchy, it's just frustrating because you keep tap-dancing around it and saying ludicrous things like this that fly in real life about as well as an M24 Army tank! I can't believe that I'm even trying to convince someone that the "small pen*s" stereotype of Asian men IS NOT A GOOD THING?!?! There's even been several females on MM who have listed it as THE most damaging stereotype against AMs. It is no good rep for AMs or ANY man. Whereas, big d*ck reps certainly are. No other guys here are even arguing my assertion. Take that as a clue to you.

Period.

Well, to each his own, and I only hope you'll find your Asian prince with a 3" c0ck someday. Tell you what, how about we refer all small-d*cked men to you in the future? You got a small d*ck fetish, right?
Trends do not have a solely genetic root,
Um, I never actually referred to The Bell Curve book, which I've never even read. Anyways, I believe that organisms are the product of BOTH genetics and environment. You can't wholly discount either. Nurture helps one reach their genetic potential - or not. If you plant a banana tree under ideal conditions, it will grow well and sprout bananas. But if you plant it in a cornfield, it will not grow to bear corn - EVER. That's just not within it's genetic program. So yes, genetics do lay a large partial role. Nobody, and I doubt even The Bell Curve, states that it plays the FULL role, though. Have you actually read it?

[kitty]

It's not touchy, it's just frustrating because you keep tap-dancing around it and saying ludicrous things like this that fly in real life about as well as an M24 Army tank! I can't believe that I'm even trying to convince someone that the "small pen*s" stereotype of Asian men IS NOT A GOOD THING?!?! There's even been several females on MM who have listed it as THE most damaging stereotype against AMs. It is no good rep for AMs or ANY man. Whereas, big d*ck reps certainly are. No other guys here are even arguing my assertion. Take that as a clue to you.

Period.

Well, to each his own, and I only hope you'll find your Asian prince with a 3" c0ck someday. Tell you what, how about we refer all small-d*cked men to you in the future? You got a small d*ck fetish, right?

*blink, blink*. Did you read my post? I am merely arguing that no stereotype is positive, and yes, that means that I think the small dick stereotype is negative. But that doesn't make the big dick stereotype a positive.

And you needn't be so condescending.

[Banana]

Ok, I just have to get this out of my system. No one, and I mean, no one equates having a small penis with being smart.

Though having a big long duk dong might have some negative stereotypical side effects, it's not as bad as you stress it to be when comparing someone with a small one.

Maybe something like this: :P
Small: 99% bad, 1% good
Big: 20% bad, 80% good

Kitty, you basically combined 2 views of those stereotypes, both negative and positive, if there is such a thing. For all intents and purposes, your example associated blacks and having a big member and being viewed as a potential rapist. On the other hand, you associated Asians and having a smaller member and being smart.

No one *ever* attributes having a big member with being sexually aggressive. Nor has anyone ever attributed having a smaller member with being smart. Let's get real here. It just doesn't work that way. They attribute blacks with being rapists and Asians as being smart. One is a physical stereotype and the other is a racial stereotype. I don't think they're the same.

[krome]

^ Actually, the PC liberal mindset (that kittygirl embodies) is this:

All races are exactly intellectually equal, on average.
But physically, blacks are genetically most masculine, have the largest builds, are more athletic with strength and fast-twitch activities, followed by whites and then Asians.
Musically, blacks are the best, followed by whites and then Asians.
In terms of d*ck size, blacks genetically are the biggest, followed by whites and then Asians.

See how liberal "equality" works? We're all equal, except physically, musically and s*xually. It's ok though, Asian men can compensate for smaller dongs by being "more caring" and working harder... :rolleyes:

[Cipherous]

^ Actually, the PC liberal mindset (that kittygirl embodies) is this:

All races are exactly intellectually equal.
But physically, blacks genetically have the largest builds, are more athletic with strength and fast-twitch activities, followed by whites and then Asians.
Musically, blacks are the best, followed by whites and then Asians.
In terms of d*ck size, blacks genetically are the biggest, followed by whites and then Asians.

See how liberal "equality" works? We're all equal, except physically, musically and s*xually.

urrr..I don't think Kitty girl ever said those things.

But I do know that I've heard that type of shit on stormfront and from other uber right winged tradionalist such as the KKK though.

[Banana]

Ok, I just have to get this out of my system. No one, and I mean, no one equates having a small penis with being smart.

Though having a big long duk dong might have some negative stereotypical side effects, it's not as bad as you stress it to be when comparing someone with a small one.

Maybe something like this: :P
Small: 99% bad, 1% good
Big: 20% bad, 80% good

Kitty, you basically combined 2 views of those stereotypes, both negative and positive, if there is such a thing. For all intents and purposes, your example associated blacks and having a big member and being viewed as a potential rapist. On the other hand, you associated Asians and having a smaller member and being smart.

No one *ever* attributes having a big member with being sexually aggressive. Nor has anyone ever attributed having a smaller member with being smart. Let's get real here. It just doesn't work that way. They attribute blacks with being rapists and Asians as being smart. One is a physical stereotype and the other is a racial stereotype. I don't think they're the same.


*blink, blink*. Did you read my post? I am merely arguing that no stereotype is positive, and yes, that means that I think the small dick stereotype is negative. But that doesn't make the big dick stereotype a positive.

Kitty, it was acknowledged a long time ago that there is no good or bad stereotype. It's a given. What he's trying to say is that there are some stereotypes that are better than others whereas you keep saying that none are good. To be honest, there are some stereotypes that races prefer to have than others. Everyone would rather be stereotyped as smart than dumb, correct? Everyone would rather be stereotyped as good looking than ugly, right?

Simply put, there is nothing good coming from having a small penis stereotype. To belief otherwise is foolhardy in my opinion.

[krome]

urrr..I don't think Kitty girl ever said those things.

But I do know that I've heard that type of shit on stormfront and from other uber right winged tradionalist such as the KKK though.
I wouldn't know, I don't go on Stormfront, do you?

Anyways, try addressing the actual argument directly, instead of implying it's wrong by association. If Hitler said 2+2=4, does that make it wrong? If the Bible said 2+2=5, does that make it right?

You really think there are no statistical differences whatsoever between races? No matter how slight? Honestly? Or are you just afraid to admit so directly?
Simply put, there is nothing good coming from having a small penis stereotype. To belief otherwise is foolhardy in my opinion.
EXACTLY! Thing is, I doubt kittygirl walks her talk, either. Given the choice between a 3" d*ck and a 7" one, all other factors being equal, which one would she pick?

[kitty]

No one *ever* attributes having a big member with being sexually aggressive. Nor has anyone ever attributed having a smaller member with being smart. Let's get real here. It just doesn't work that way. They attribute blacks with being rapists and Asians as being smart. One is a physical stereotype and the other is a racial stereotype. I don't think they're the same.

What makes you think that is the case?... How is one a physical stereotype and the other racial? I mean, aside from 'because I said so'...

I merely proposed alternate views of the stereotypes, where they might benefit Asian men. I never said they did, or that they should, or even that being seen as having a small dick is a good thing... merely that a stereotype being good or bad is up for interpretation... and THEREFORE there is no such thing as a good stereotype because ALL stereotypes are bad.

^ Actually, the PC liberal mindset (that kittygirl embodies) is this:

All races are exactly intellectually equal, on average.
But physically, blacks are genetically most masculine, have the largest builds, are more athletic with strength and fast-twitch activities, followed by whites and then Asians.
Musically, blacks are the best, followed by whites and then Asians.
In terms of d*ck size, blacks genetically are the biggest, followed by whites and then Asians.

See how liberal "equality" works? We're all equal, except physically, musically and s*xually. It's ok though, Asian men can compensate for smaller dongs by being "more caring" and working harder... :rolleyes:

I never said any of that. I think all people (regardless of race) represent a spectrum of intellectual and physical capabilities, that have been turned into 'trends' (like the Bell Curve) by social factors. I argue against your citation of the Bell Curve for reasons posted earlier, and mainly as a direct counterargument here, because I deliberately say that character traits do not have much to do with ethnic makeup.

I mean, what's with the putting words into my mouth thing?

Kitty, it was acknowledged a long time ago that there is no good or bad stereotype. It's a given. What he's trying to say is that there are some stereotypes that are better than others whereas you keep saying that none are good. To be honest, there are some stereotypes that races prefer to have than others. Everyone would rather be stereotyped as smart than dumb, correct? Everyone would rather be stereotyped as good looking than ugly, right?

Simply put, there is nothing good coming from having a small penis stereotype. To belief otherwise is foolhardy in my opinion.

Why is that? I mean, if you argue that being stereotyped as sexually aggressive (and thus pea-brained) is a good thing, than why can't you argue the reverse?

The point is that you can't. And by saying that some stereotypes are 'less bad'... is essentially saying that some are good, positive, or at least worth keeping around or putting on the backburner. I argue that the fundamental problem of stereotypes is that they generalize based on race and create a connection (where there is none) between character traits and ethnicity.

See the diff? I don't care what the stereotype is and how it might benefit or not benefit you. Fundamentally, you need to recognize that race shouldn't play as big a factor in how you perceive people (and yet, the very fact that some people can't help associate race is part of the root problem).


You really think there are no statistical differences whatsoever between races? No matter how slight? Honestly? Or are you just afraid to admit so directly?


You can draw a very pretty bell curve with IQ on one axis and race on the other... and I would applaud you and give you a little gold star. But just because you've got a nice graph doesn't mean that the trends are related... it's fundamentally bad science. It's like seeing a squirrel eating out of a bag of chips, and assuming that the squirrel walked into the store, pulled out a dollar, paid for it, took it outside, had the dexterity to rip it open, and started munching.

Though you can place them on the same graph, they don't indicate a cause and effect. Racially, black youths may display poorer IQs, but to use that graph to make the conclusion that therefore blacks are genetically predisposed to being less intelligent is where the bad science comes into play. There are other factors that you are wholeheartedly ignoring.


EXACTLY! Thing is, I doubt kittygirl walks her talk, either. Given the choice between a 3" d*ck and a 7" one, all other factors being equal, which one would she pick?

My sexual choices are my own and should not factor into this argument. It demeans my overall assertions for you to boil this down to my libido, and I will kindly ask you to stick to the topic.

[krome]

Why is that? I mean, if you argue that being stereotyped as sexually aggressive (and thus pea-brained) is a good thing, than why can't you argue the reverse?
Again, you keep lumping in other unrelated factors to d*ck size - namely an inversely-proportional relationship with IQ. Who really believes that, though? Look at the men in history with reputedly huge schlongs - Charlie Chaplin, Milton Berle, Jimi Hendrix, Porfirio Rubirosa (http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Cinema/2892/rubirosa.html), Tommy Lee, etc etc. Were these men "degraded" and thought of as "dumb?"

No, by contrast, they were all universally worshipped by society, men and women - in large part for their large parts, lol. Honestly, a big schlong is ALWAYS an asset, NEVER a liability for a man. On the other hand, let's think of small-d*cked men wildly successful with women? *crickets* Only way is if they greatly compensate with some other achievements - but that only reinforces the point that THEY HAVE TO COMPENSATE.

So, I don't care what PC women say (publicly). We all know when girls "girl talk" about guys, d*ck size comes up right after, "Is he cute?" And women's actions speak MUCH LOUDER than words in this dept.

But just for argument's sake, do any guys here think having a small peni5 is a good thing - as kittygirl believes?

My sexual choices are my own and should not factor into this argument. It demeans my overall assertions for you to boil this down to my libido, and I will kindly ask you to stick to the topic.
Or...doesn't? Lol...I guess you were just talking about some hypothetical women who don't exist, right? Thought so.
Racially, black youths may display poorer IQs, but to use that graph to make the conclusion that therefore blacks are genetically predisposed to being less intelligent is where the bad science comes into play. There are other factors that you are wholeheartedly ignoring.
Have you really reviewed all the data out there in-depth to conclude they are all so ignorant? And what about physical measurements and hormonal/physical differences? All dietary/environmental too? Are you now saying that we are NOT products of both nature AND nurture, but ONLY nurture now?

[Banana]

What makes you think that is the case?... How is one a physical stereotype and the other racial? I mean, aside from 'because I said so'...

Simple. People normally attribute black males with rapists, not having a bigger member. No one attributes a white male with a big member as a rapist.

I merely proposed alternate views of the stereotypes, where they might benefit Asian men. I never said they did, or that they should, or even that being seen as having a small dick is a good thing... merely that a stereotype being good or bad is up for interpretation... and THEREFORE there is no such thing as a good stereotype because ALL stereotypes are bad.

But this solution is pretty much null and void if it doesn't help out a present situation. My problem is that you're looking at it on the bright side except there is no possible way this can be true. It's just completely out there. I would drop this conversation if you just acknowledge that the following is true.

"Though all stereotypes are bad, some carry attributes that are better than others."

[rice cracker]

"Though all stereotypes are bad, some carry attributes that are better than others."

I would change this to: "Though all stereotypes are bad, some carry attributes that are easier to live with than others." Semantics, yes, but isn't that what half this arguement is about? :rolleyes:

Side note: I've lost the point of this thread. Seems to be another rant about cock size, instigated by the usual suspect. Vote for splitting or closure.

[kitty]

Again, you keep lumping in other unrelated factors to d*ck size - namely an inversely-proportional relationship with IQ. Who really believes that, though? Look at the men in history with reputedly huge schlongs - Charlie Chaplin, Milton Berle, Jimi Hendrix, Porfirio Rubirosa (http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Cinema/2892/rubirosa.html), Tommy Lee, etc etc. Were these men "degraded" and thought of as "dumb?"


True, but we're talking about perceptions associated with racial stereotypes, not famous individuals in history.

For that matter, how about Kobe Bryant? How many people think he's guilty or rape? What about R. Kelly? These are all famous men who have also been hypersexualized, and are by default 'guilty' of sex-related crimes, at least as far as the public is concerned.

So again... I'm not trying to defend the small-dick stereotype as a good thing. I have already said that it is negative, but that to qualify other stereotypes as being positive, or at least less bad, is to take a bad stereotype and to try and see some good in it. (i.e. "Well! At least they get some women!!")

It's about as messed up as me trying to put forth some good in the small dick stereotype.


So, I don't care what PC women say (publicly). We all know when girls "girl talk" about guys, d*ck size comes up right after, "Is he cute?" And women's actions speak MUCH LOUDER than words in this dept.


... I think it is crude to ask a woman about a man's dick size. I only ask men that, and only for fun (all of them are good friends and not dating prospects). So this 'girl talk' of which you speak, I am clueless of.

Incidentally, I, for one, would not base my attraction to a man on his dick size. I care more about his personality. (Seriously.)


But just for argument's sake, do any guys here think a small peni5 is a good thing - as kittygirl believes?


I never said that. I don't believe that.


Or...doesn't? Lol...I guess you were just talking about some hypothetical women who don't exist, right? Thought so.


I didn't talk about any women. I was talking about stereotypes of penises.

"Though all stereotypes are bad, some carry attributes that are better than others."

I would change this to: "Though all stereotypes are bad, some carry attributes that are easier to live with than others." Semantics, yes, but isn't that what half this arguement is about? :rolleyes:

Side note: I've lost the point of this thread. Seems to be another rant about cock size, instigated by the usual suspect. Vote for splitting or closure.

I second that motion. For the record, I could go on forever, but past experience indicates that me vs. krome = never a good thing.

[Fireblade]

Does this just boil down to comments about how people percieve asians in general? Like penis size and all? Seriously, if people believe that, then let them. You can argue to them that you're not a sterotype, and present yourself as a individual. However, when you everyone into a group, and you argue how much you do not want to be associated with said group, then perhaps there is a sense of dissatisfaction of your position in society. Bring yourself up, instead of complaining about how this person does this or that.

Consequently Krome, you keep on debating about liberals and white media that keep the man down, but if you were black, wouldn't you have more to complain about? You wouldn't have to worry about people looking at you as a potential thug, nor do you have to worry about getting your next job, because you fit in a minority that assimilates better into a white collar workforce than a black person. I'm always glad that I don't have to face those issues. I'd rather be sterotyped as to having a small prick, than one of where I'm a potential rapist or murderer. You can be angry, but to degenerate your debate to one's sexuality is not a viable counter. Also, are you just angry because you're not getting enough play? (Yes, I went there, because obviously there isn't many qualms about you slinging mud to kittygirl or anyone who disagrees with you.) This is a democracy, and to force your ideals onto others is simply not a democratic ideal. We can all agree to disagree.

As to the issue of the FCC and CC, I usually hate all forms of censorship, but there really should be some form of censorship when it comes to hatespeech. I believe Europe does enforce a law that punishes hatespeech. However the case may be, this administration should enforce such regulations, to make sure no one is made a target of hate.

[kitty]

As to the issue of the FCC and CC, I usually hate all forms of censorship, but there really should be some form of censorship when it comes to hatespeech. I believe Europe does enforce a law that punishes hatespeech. However the case may be, this administration should enforce such regulations, to make sure no one is made a target of hate.

Just to play devil's advocate, what constitutes hate speech and what constitutes free speech? I mean, it's pretty much a one or the other situation. The KKK is easy... what about something like, i dunno... passion of the christ, where no one's really sure if it's anti-Semetic or not.

[krome]

Fireblade - Actually, it was a molehill that got turned into a mountain when kittygirl continually insisted that the small d*ck stereotype could be a POSITIVE stereotype for AMs.

I'm sorry, but that just sets my BS meter off the charts! IMO, it's PC hypothetical idealism gone amok and mental ma5turbation. And diametrically opposed to REALITY - both HERS personally and the rest of society at large. I just think it's intellectual dishonesty to think that way, IMHO.

Honestly dude, man-to-man, since when is having a small peni5 POSITIVE IN AND OF ITSELF??? This is not a trick question. It's actually a very simple one that should have just been accepted honestly at face value.

This issue has become not about d*cks, but intellectual honesty vs fake PC utopianism. That's really the underlying theme here. Do people even really personally believe some of the stuff they're saying (much less practice it)? Cuz I sure don't!

[rice cracker]

Krome, get over it. You've derailed another thread because your BS meter went off...again. It's getting very tiring, and you have a whole thread devoted to this very issue in the rant room.

And man-to-man, why is having a big dick positive IN AND OF ITSELF? Why is a big dick better than a small one? Hmmm? It's not the dick, Krome, it's what it represents in this society. God, I can't believe I had to write that.

[Banana]

In our present society, I still completely fail to see how having a large wang is viewed as worse off than having a smaller wang. Personally, I don't care. All my past lady friends are more than pleased and never judged me on that. But, all I'm still getting is that all stereotypes are bad when it's not true because some are better than others.

Regarding Krome's arguments, it doesn't even have to do anything with penis size at all. Though he tends to be a little "more in your face" regarding topics, it doesn't effectively mean that he's incorrect.

I think his ideas has to deal with:

1.) All stereotypes are bad but some stereotypes are better off than others.

2.) People use their positive stereotypes to help them and negative ones of others to degrade them.

He's just using that example because that's all there is at the moment. We could easily use the fictional stereotype that all blacks are good at car racing.

In our society, black men tend to fare better socially compared to Asian men.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Krome, get over it. You've derailed another thread because your BS meter went off...again. It's getting very tiring, and you have a whole thread devoted to this very issue in the rant room.

And man-to-man, why is having a big dick positive IN AND OF ITSELF? Why is a big dick better than a small one? Hmmm? It's not the dick, Krome, it's what it represents in this society. God, I can't believe I had to write that.

No shit.

[Fireblade]

Just to play devil's advocate, what constitutes hate speech and what constitutes free speech? I mean, it's pretty much a one or the other situation. The KKK is easy... what about something like, i dunno... passion of the christ, where no one's really sure if it's anti-Semetic or not.

I guess it's a pretty broad definition that clearly needs to be defined. In my opinion, hate speech is any form of communication that clearly includes the audience to descriminate against people of color, gender, or belief. Also, negative sterotyping is also a form of hate speech.

[kitty]

Fireblade - Actually, it was a molehill that got turned into a mountain when kittygirl continually insisted that the small d*ck stereotype could be a POSITIVE stereotype for AMs.

I'm sorry, but that just sets my BS meter off the charts! IMO, it's PC hypothetical idealism gone amok and mental ma5turbation. And diametrically opposed to REALITY - both HERS personally and the rest of society at large. I just think it's intellectual dishonesty to think that way, IMHO.

Honestly dude, man-to-man, since when is having a small peni5 POSITIVE IN AND OF ITSELF??? This is not a trick question. It's actually a very simple one that should have just been accepted honestly at face value.

This issue has become not about d*cks, but intellectual honesty vs fake PC utopianism. That's really the underlying theme here. Do people even really personally believe some of the stuff they're saying (much less practice it)? Cuz I sure don't!

krome, finding a positive side to the small dick stereotype is a dumb as finding a positive side to the big dick stereotype. that's my point.

the rest is you putting words in my mouth.

I guess it's a pretty broad definition that clearly needs to be defined. In my opinion, hate speech is any form of communication that clearly includes the audience to descriminate against people of color, gender, or belief. Also, negative sterotyping is also a form of hate speech.

right, see I agree with you that hate speech is negative, but for me (and I know i'm an extremist) but hip hop videos, movies, etc all contain negative stereotyping so for me would fit into that definition.

rather than create a police state, i believe that all speech (hateful too) should be protected as free specch... but then so is the counterargument protected too. That's why I adovocate that the gov't / FCC endorse disclaimers so that parents can make the choice they best like, but that regulating what is and what isn't good speech should not be under the purview of the American gov't.

[Fireblade]

Fireblade - Actually, it was a molehill that got turned into a mountain when kittygirl continually insisted that the small d*ck stereotype could be a POSITIVE stereotype for AMs.

I'm sorry, but that just sets my BS meter off the charts! IMO, it's PC hypothetical idealism gone amok and mental ma5turbation. And diametrically opposed to REALITY - both HERS personally and the rest of society at large. I just think it's intellectual dishonesty to think that way, IMHO.

Honestly dude, man-to-man, since when is having a small peni5 POSITIVE IN AND OF ITSELF??? This is not a trick question. It's actually a very simple one that should have just been accepted honestly at face value.

This issue has become not about d*cks, but intellectual honesty vs fake PC utopianism. That's really the underlying theme here. Do people even really personally believe some of the stuff they're saying (much less practice it)? Cuz I sure don't!

Actually I don't recall anywhere that Kittygirl actually said that small dicks were a positive sterotype. If anything, I said that, and you can accuse me of being a bullshit pc liberal. What you have to realize is that if you don't believe in it, why try to debunk something that is stupid. If someone is trying to push on you that the Earth is flat, do you debate with that person? No. Because it's utimately stupid and a waste of time. Let It Go.

[Banana]

Well, just off the top of my head, let's just say that the idea is that black men can please women sexually and asian men cannot.

That's one good point of the big dick stereotype. What's a good point of the small penis?

[kitty]

\
In our society, black men tend to fare better socially compared to Asian men.

I would argue against that. I would say that both are pretty much drowning socially... as are all minorities.

Well, just off the top of my head, let's just say that the idea is that black men can please women sexually and asian men cannot.

That's one good point of the big dick stereotype. What's a good point of the small penis?

and thus I said, if you're going to say that the good thing about the big dick is being able to please women, the good thing about having a small dick is to be less associated with testorone-induced madness and idiocy, being able to think clearly, and being a more caring individual. (incidentally, that would be what some women would describe as their ideal man). and not always being accused of being the rapist.

which is all ludicrous. thus the 'no stereotype is better than another stereotype' argument.

[Banana]

Actually I don't recall anywhere that Kittygirl actually said that small dicks were a positive sterotype. If anything, I said that, and you can accuse me of being a bullshit pc liberal. What you have to realize is that if you don't believe in it, why try to debunk something that is stupid. If someone is trying to push on you that the Earth is flat, do you debate with that person? No. Because it's utimately stupid and a waste of time. Let It Go.

No, I'd debate him because I'm afraid of his ignorance being passed on. The line stops with him.

[Fireblade]

Well, just off the top of my head, let's just say that the idea is that black men can please women sexually and asian men cannot.

That's one good point of the big dick stereotype. What's a good point of the small penis?

Big Dick = 3 foot monster with 10 inch girth.
[bad, because you can't screw anything human]

Smaller Dick = 8 inch regulator
[good, because obviously that's gonna get some play]

There you go.

[rice cracker]

A big dick does not equal sexual satisfaction.

[Banana]

and thus I said, if you're going to say that the good thing about the big dick is being able to please women, the good thing about having a small dick is to be less associated with testorone-induced madness and idiocy, being able to think clearly, and being a more caring individual. and not always being accused of being the rapist.

Yes but having a big member hasn't been attributed with being stupid and moronic. Does a white businessman with a large member automatically be attributed to being stupid? No. Whereas having a small penis *has* been attributed to not being able to please a woman.

Let's try again. Big: Physically stronger and able to please women.

A big dick does not equal sexual satisfaction.

That hasn't been attributed to large penis size either. It's not what we know, it's what society thinks. The going stereotype is that big equals better. Remember, we're not going off of what you guys think, it's what everyone in society has attributed.

[kitty]

A big dick does not equal sexual satisfaction.

amen, sistah.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

A big dick does not equal sexual satisfaction.

Totally. It's thickness that counts more than length. Jp ^^

Ok anyways, wow, you know, I seem to be saying a lot of the same thing these days, but once again it's how people have interpreted differences that matter, and how differences are used to keep people down as a result.

[Fireblade]

Ok really... I'm gonna call mods on this. How about let's not talk about penis size, and we just talk about the FCC and Clear Channel's actions?!!

Geebus.

[krome]

good thing about having a small dick is to be less associated with testorone-induced madness and idiocy, being able to think clearly, and being a more caring individual.
It is? So, you associate small d*cks with less testosterone and bigger d*cks with more? And then various behavioral characteristics with varying testosterone levels? Is that scientifically valid? Sounds like something off Stormfront, to be honest. And, what sets testosterone level? Do different races have different levels?

And, so the male trade-off in your mind is a hung jerk who's good in bed vs a caring pind*ck who sux in bed?

1.) All stereotypes are bad but some stereotypes are better off than others.

2.) People use their positive stereotypes to help them and negative ones of others to degrade them.

He's just using that example because that's all there is at the moment. We could easily use the fictional stereotype that all blacks are good at car racing.

In our society, black men tend to fare better socially compared to Asian men.
Agreed.

[rice cracker]

Yes but having a big member hasn't been attributed with being stupid and moronic. Does a white businessman with a large member automatically be attributed to being stupid? No. Whereas having a small penis *has* been attributed to not being able to please a woman.

Let's try again. Big: Physically stronger and able to please women.

Actually, bigger is often equated with being dumb. Look at the "dumb jock."

[kitty]

Yes but having a big member hasn't been attributed with being stupid and moronic. Does a white businessman with a large member automatically be attributed to being stupid? No. Whereas having a small penis *has* been attributed to not being able to please a woman.


What rice_cracker said, and we're talking about how people might postively interprete the stereotype of the defeminized asian. Having a small dick doesn't mean being smart, and having a big dick doesn't mean you're stupid, but that's the perception.

I mean, the mandingo stereotype of black men doesn't exactly have mandingo as an astrophysicist. No, he's a grunting uneducated mess who's great in bed -- not really that positive.

And I think you're blurring the lines by bringing up white men. They are not stereotyped as having large penises, racially. They are the standard by which we use the word 'big' and 'small'... and thus cannot have racial penis size stereotypes attributed to how society perceives them.

[Banana]

ROFL.

People are camping this thread and just hitting refresh every few seconds. Though seriously, I think the mods should shut it down since we can make this another debate.

I mean, the mandingo stereotype of black men doesn't exactly have mandingo as an astrophysicist. No, he's a grunting uneducated mess who's great in bed -- not really that positive.

Depends as what you regard as good. Some think that being good in bed is good whilst others thinking that studying the stars is good. Who are you to decide that being good isn't the better stereotype than the astrophysicist?

[kitty]

It is? So, you associate small d*cks with less testosterone and bigger d*cks with more? And then various behavioral characteristics with varying testosterone levels? Is that scientifically valid? Sounds like something off Stormfront, to be honest. And, what sets testosterone level? Do different races have different levels?



No, it has no scientific basis, but neither does the 'big dick' phenomenon. If you check your female anatomy, you'll realize that girth has more to do with sexual stimulation than length, and that stereotypes about black penises involve length, but not girth.

And my post up there was a response to Banana saying 'what a positive stereotype that could be associated with a small dick'. thus my response. It has nothing to do with my personal beliefs.

[Fireblade]

ROFL.

People are camping this thread and just hitting refresh every few seconds. Though seriously, I think the mods should shut it down since we can make this another debate.

I agree.

[rice cracker]

Save the whales.



What? It has just as much relevance to the FCC as dicksize and stereotyping does.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

It is? So, you associate small d*cks with less testosterone and bigger d*cks with more? And then various behavioral characteristics with varying testosterone levels? Is that scientifically valid? Sounds like something off Stormfront, to be honest. And, what sets testosterone level? Do different races have different levels?

And you have demonstrated that you are completely willing to buy into the interpretation that a smaller dick makes an inferior man, therefore you'd rather not associate yourself or Asian men with having less testosterone or smaller penises. Bottom line that you still obviously don't get is, if Asian men on the whole indeed have smaller penises...so what?

Please change your avatar. I have much respect for Bruce Lee. I don't want to develop an association with him and whiny Asian males over time after reading too much of your shit.

[krome]

Some think that being good in bed is good whilst others thinking that studying the stars is good. Who are you to decide that being good isn't the better stereotype than the astrophysicist?
I'd rather be Stephen Hawkings than Kobe Bryant, wouldn't you? Who needs groupies when you have physics equations?

Gumby - Again, for the 3rd time, please stop stalking me with your knee-jerk personal attacks. I certainly haven't been doing the same to you. And I agree, this thread should have been split off a long time ago - as I've kept saying...

Actually, bigger is often equated with being dumb. Look at the "dumb jock."
And what men get worshipped most highly in our society, from high school on up? How many people here can name top 10 physicists, vs top 10 "dumb jocks?" How many guys here had posters of Stephen Hawkings on their wall, vs jock stars or other non-intellectual celebs? How much media coverage do pro-jocks get vs pro-physicists?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I'd rather be Stephen Hawkings than Kobe Bryant, wouldn't you? Who needs groupies when you have physics equations?

Gumby - Again, for the 3rd time, please stop stalking me with your knee-jerk personal attacks. I certainly haven't been doing the same to you. And I agree, this thread should have been split off a long time ago - as I've kept saying...

Again, you assume (and buy into) t