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kitty
02-25-2004, 10:07 PM
Passion of the Christ: Product of a Messiah or a Madman?

There are two things that people like to think make a movie dramatic, arthouse-y and powerful:

1) slow motion camera-work
2) long vapid stares into nothing-ness (aka "dramatic" acting)

Done in excess, it can make a passable movie an absolute abomination to watch. Gibson, no virgin to the directing world, should've known better in Passion of the Christ, and yet, again we see him resort to the same tactics he used in Braveheart, but to the nth degree. Although visually stunning and brimming with overly obvious religious imagery, Passion was damned by melodramatic overacting and its pretentious self-importance.

Perhaps a little too limited by the fact that the entire story of the film is not only well-known, but readily available in the top drawer of the bedside table of every hotel room in America (you know, the place where you normally keep the condoms), Passion takes the most literal interpretation of the post-Last Supper Christ and translates it to the big screen. Gibson wastes little time with interpretation and exposition, instead choosing to focus on transmitting emotion through drawn-out closeups on the hysterical reactions of Christ's followers, and the angry condemnation of his opposition. Maybe the most obvious of Gibson's fiddling with the Good Book is his inclusion of an androgynous, cloaked figure who represents the demonic, or human temptations of Christ and a physical embodiment of any doubt he might have in God, during his suffering. The figure is best used during the Gethsemane scene (an excellent starting point for the story), where James Caviezel, as Christ, holds a three-way conversation between himself, the hooded figure who tries to tempt him to turn his back on God, and the unseen and unheard Father, Himself.

Aside from the inclusion of this hooded figure, the film stays true to the story, depicting Christ's capture and condemnation at the hands of the Jewish high temple, followed by his condemnation, torture, and execution, interspersed with brief flashbacks that reflect the teachings of his life as a juxtaposition to the violence of his death.

And, oh, how violent that death is. Parents, do not take your children to see this movie -- I don't care how much you want to instill in them an awe of Christ, this movie is more horrifying than all those movies conservatives have raged about for years, combined. Flashbacks aside, Passion cannot help but be little more than a bloody orgy of brutality. Gibson seems to think that by showing how Christ suffered, we, the believing and non-believing moviegoers will realize the glory of his life. Instead, we are pushed to the very limits of our own desensitization, to the point where, I, for one, felt drained and numb when Jesus finally succumbs to death. After nearly two hours of watching Jesus surrender himself to flesh-tearing whippings, beatings, and at last being nailed to the cross, my brain and heart were simply too cold to react.

Like Kill Bill, if the graphic brutality were removed from this film, there would be nothing left. To me, senseless, nigh pornographic, violence cannot, in and of itself, offer good storytelling. There needs to be something more, but Gibson, for whatever reason, chooses not to provide it.

What he does provide is, as mentioned, a visually stunning movie. Gibson treats each shot as if it were a painting or tableau, chock full of powerful symbolism and iconography. This often works in his favour, as each movement of the camera captures another angle of the Jesus' journey to the
cross. Scenes with little or no dialogue are extremely heart-wrenching, since Gibson is well aware of how visual elements work well on the screen in a story like this. However, at the same time, this encourages actors to overact, as they are each aware of the scope of their role and how they often must use body language to convey their feelings. (Obviously, this is further emphasized by Gibson's decision to have the entire movie in Aramaic). It is as if none of them can forget that they are not merely characters, but larger-than-life icons, that must be portrayed with larger-than-life hyper-emotionality. Occasionally, this melodrama is so overplayed, it crosses the line into the inane, and I had to, more than once, stifle an inappropriate giggle during some inopportune scenes.


Caviezel is fairly powerful with his depiction of Jesus, though most of the time he need do little more than grunt and fall over, while fashionably sporting several pints worth of fake blood. Scenes outside of these are delivered with intensity that belies a borderline insanity or fervent passion for his beliefs. These alternate interpretations are particularly well done early on in the movie, when we are simply uncertain whether Jesus is the messiah or a madman. Maia Morgenstern (the Virgin Mary) and Monica Bellucci (Mary Magdalene, who has maybe two lines throughout the whole movie) also do well with their characters, though they are given an infintesimally small range to work with: both oscillate between sad, more sad, and hysterically sad. A welcome performance is delivered by Ivano Marescotti who plays Pontificus Pilatus, stretching the limits of this rather minor role almost to the breaking point, yet he still manages to communicate a moving depth to his character, trapped between a rock and a hard place.

Outside of these focal characters, most of the actors give one-dimensional and rather cardboard performances for their archetypal roles. Claudia Gerini is Pilatus' wife (aptly named Claudia) who sympathisizes for the suffering of a holy man, and he plays this anachronistic bleeding heart liberal to a tee, with little explanation for why she empathisizes with Christ. The Jewish leaders and mobs are similarly flat, with no convincing reason articulated for their homicidally persistant anger towards Christ.

Many have denounced this film as being anti-Semetic, and while I hesitate to use that term, I cannot help but agree that the film helps support anti-Jewish sentiment -- partly by weighing in on a religious war that has been waging for centuries. The Jews are negatively depicted because Gibson does not bother to give them a three-dimensionality that allows the reader to see them as anything but 'the bad guy', and to call this film 'anti-Semetic', one must remember that much of the oppression the Jews suffered was rationalized by the belief that Jews were to blame for the death of Christ. It is therefore in this context that one must decide for oneself if Gibson is being out-and-out anti-Jewish, or merely promoting a pro-Christian message.

Overall, this movie seems to be a thinly veiled conversion effort to rejuvenate the ranks of Christianity and to reenthuse those already following the faith. It reinforces existing preconceptions, such as the idea that Christ was white, or that he spoke Aramaic, or even that he was crucified through tha hands (rather than through the wrists, that some have argued would have been more practical). The movie offers little to someone who does not already prescribe to the beliefs of Christianity, and while it is well put together (indicating a definite labour of love on Gibson's part), we're still not sure if this is messianic-level filmmaking, or an insanely monumental career-suicide.

What we are sure of is that Passion is a gruesome, shocking display of how grotesquely evil human nature can really be, as well as a controversial R-rated version of one of those Sunday morning Bible study specials.

yoMAMA
02-26-2004, 11:46 AM
I'm sure I'll just skip this movie all together.......

Usually i go to see movies just to get some popcorn, and this may alter my appetite.

:redface:

KATANA
02-26-2004, 06:51 PM
Did you see the movie "The Greatest Story Ever Told?" Now that's a movie about Christ that will make you feel good, especially with that musical score.

teaz0r
02-26-2004, 06:56 PM
a woman just died from a heartattack in
wichita after seeing the climatic crucifixion
scene.

kake-tv

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=upsell_article&articleID=VR1117900763&categoryID=1000&cs=1

i think you have to login to read the rest of the article.
i don't have membership there. i read the news in the
local newspaper here in bangkok.

TB4000
02-29-2004, 10:40 AM
I have yet to see it, but after its initial viewings earlier this week I'm sure that the majority of the country that hadn't been in years is in church as we speak. :wink:

Yeahman
02-29-2004, 06:42 PM
Jesus DID speak Aramaic. The disciples were depicted as non-whites and the rest were at least not blue-eyed and blong-haired which is already a big step for western depictions of Jesus. The person who played the Virgin Mary is Jewish herself.

I don't think this film was anti-semetic though I could see how some people may see it that way. Jesus, his disciples, Simon (the man who helped carry the cross)... were all Jews. There were scenes were even some of the Jewish priests protested. What I got out of it was that some of the Sanhedrin (Jewish high priests) were largely responsible. Not Jews as a whole. And that's the truth.

Kuchana
02-29-2004, 07:34 PM
Jesus DID speak Aramaic. The disciples were depicted as non-whites and the rest were at least not blue-eyed and blong-haired which is already a big step for western depictions of Jesus. The person who played the Virgin Mary is Jewish herself.

I don't think this film was anti-semetic though I could see how some people may see it that way. Jesus, his disciples, Simon (the man who helped carry the cross)... were all Jews. There were scenes were even some of the Jewish priests protested. What I got out of it was that some of the Sanhedrin (Jewish high priests) were largely responsible. Not Jews as a whole. And that's the truth.

I agree with you completely! People are largely assuming that this movie is anti-Semetic as you pointed out and some Jewish leaders are raising unnecessary objections to it because of it but if they look at it closely and the Bible itself, it is the Sanhedrin who should be held at fault for the death of Jesus.

kitty
02-29-2004, 07:37 PM
people are calling it anti-Semetic because a lot of past discrimination and oppression of Jews was done because of the *rationale* that Jews killed Christ.

Yeahman
02-29-2004, 11:23 PM
Jews did kill Christ. But it was just a handful or so of them. I don't think that fact or the theatrical depiction of that fact is anti-semetic. It can be misused to fuel anti-semetism though.
A priest friend of mine, wrote a review and he was saying how Pilate was depicted as more humane than he actually was and the Jewish high priests were depicted as more cruel than they actually were. It would have been nice if Gibson balanced it out a little better, but I'm sure he didn't intend it to be understood as anti-semetism nor does it comes across that way. The Sanhedrin was treated unfairly in the movie, not the Jews. I mean there was an explicit mention of Simon "the Jew" (the one who helped Jesus carry the cross).

Shogun Empress
04-30-2004, 06:53 AM
Passion of the Christ: Product of a Messiah or a Madman?
Perhaps a little too limited by the fact that the entire story of the film is not only well-known, but readily available in the top drawer of the bedside table of every hotel room in America (you know, the place where you normally keep the condoms)
Thats not exactly a great way to start a review on The Passion of Christ. The more I read your posts, the more I'm starting to think you wear these t-shirts (http://www.christ-killer.com/) around your apartment.

kitty
04-30-2004, 08:05 PM
that's a borderline personal attack, don't you think?

a great way to start a review on a movie is to start with something that will a) capture the readers' attention and b) be honest with what you thought of the movie and not pander to what people want to read.

i'm agnostic, and no christ killer. and am offended that you would think such just because i don't fall into line with your hyper-religious mode of thinking. god... passion was so not all that. get over it.

kimpossible
04-30-2004, 08:14 PM
Thats not exactly a great way to start a review on The Passion of Christ. The more I read your posts, the more I'm starting to think you wear these t-shirts (http://www.christ-killer.com/) around your apartment.


Let's not bust her balls about religion. This is a movie review and kittygirl is reviewing it as such. Take issue with the review, not kittygirl herself or her views on religion.

kitty
04-30-2004, 08:22 PM
Let's not bust her balls about religion. This is a movie review and kittygirl is reviewing it as such. Take issue with the review, not kittygirl herself or her views on religion.

agreed. there's many things you could argue against in this review, in relation to the movie -- for example how the movie was maybe NOT anti-semetic or an orgy of violence. calling me a christ killer? come on.

Shogun Empress
05-13-2004, 08:37 AM
that's a borderline personal attack, don't you think?

a great way to start a review on a movie is to start with something that will a) capture the readers' attention and b) be honest with what you thought of the movie and not pander to what people want to read.

i'm agnostic, and no christ killer. and am offended that you would think such just because i don't fall into line with your hyper-religious mode of thinking. god... passion was so not all that. get over it.
1.) Sorry.

2.) It definitely caught my attention.

3.) I was disgusted by your honest thoughts.

4.) It was all that and a bag of chips.

5.) I haven't been to church since Easter. I don't think I'm hyper-religious. I'm just spiritually sensitive.

Bhodi_Li
05-13-2004, 09:14 AM
Oh you girls :biggrin:

Shogun Empress
05-13-2004, 09:43 AM
Oh you girls :biggrin:
*plays All For You *

:redface:

kitty
05-14-2004, 10:37 AM
1.) Sorry.

2.) It definitely caught my attention.

3.) I was disgusted by your honest thoughts.

4.) It was all that and a bag of chips.

5.) I haven't been to church since Easter. I don't think I'm hyper-religious. I'm just spiritually sensitive.



well, i'm sorry you feel that way. but if you can't stand people expressing opinions on religion that differ from your own you should present a reason why they are 'disgusting' rather than just call them names like 'christ-killer'. if i were jewish, i would call you anti-semetic (since the term 'christ-killer' has been used to rationalize the near-annhilation of jews throughout history), but since i'm not (and have a rather healthy respect for god -- note the lack of capitalization -- while the jury is still out for me on jesus) i just think it's just plain odd.

as far as the blatant sniping at me, either present something meaningful, or take it to PMs. you're disgusted -- big deal. my review presents nothing on god or jesus, but discusses the MOVIE 'passion of the christ' as just that -- a movie. It's no burning bush, and you 'spiritually sensitive' people need to friggin' get over it.

Meanwhile, I have yet to receive a personal message from you detailing your problem with me, so I can only conclude you are just trolling for attention.

rice cracker
05-14-2004, 10:40 AM
Meanwhile, I have yet to receive a personal message from you detailing your problem with me, so I can only conclude you are just trolling for attention.

KG, phone call on line one. A Captain Obvious wishes to speak with you.

Shogun Empress
05-14-2004, 12:18 PM
well, i'm sorry you feel that way. but if you can't stand people expressing opinions on religion that differ from your own you should present a reason why they are 'disgusting' rather than just call them names like 'christ-killer'. if i were jewish, i would call you anti-semetic (since the term 'christ-killer' has been used to rationalize the near-annhilation of jews throughout history), but since i'm not (and have a rather healthy respect for god -- note the lack of capitalization -- while the jury is still out for me on jesus) i just think it's just plain odd.

as far as the blatant sniping at me, either present something meaningful, or take it to PMs. you're disgusted -- big deal. my review presents nothing on god or jesus, but discusses the MOVIE 'passion of the christ' as just that -- a movie. It's no burning bush, and you 'spiritually sensitive' people need to friggin' get over it.

Meanwhile, I have yet to receive a personal message from you detailing your problem with me, so I can only conclude you are just trolling for attention.
I don't have any problems with you. Chill.

kitty
05-14-2004, 12:27 PM
sorry, call me a bitch, but if someone calls me a christ-killer and decides to prounce my opinions 'disgusting', i'd like to hear some reasoning, if publicly or by pm. if i don't hear from you, i'd really like there to be an end with your sanctimonious sniping at me, my personal beliefs, and my posts.

meanwhile, if no one has anything else to add about the movie, i'm going to close this thread, since it's really doing nothing but adding fuel to the fire.

Shogun Empress
05-14-2004, 02:11 PM
sorry, call me a bitch, but if someone calls me a christ-killer and decides to prounce my opinions 'disgusting', i'd like to hear some reasoning, if publicly or by pm. if i don't hear from you, i'd really like there to be an end with your sanctimonious sniping at me, my personal beliefs, and my posts.

meanwhile, if no one has anything else to add about the movie, i'm going to close this thread, since it's really doing nothing but adding fuel to the fire.Reasoning? Please don't try to analyze me with the left side of your brain because you won't go very far but I will try to explain anyway... What is it exactly do you want again? Sanctimonious sniping?

*looks up sanctimonious*

Main Entry: sanc·ti·mo·nious
Pronunciation: "sa[ng](k)-t&-'mO-nE-&s, -ny&s
Function: adjective
1 : affecting piousness : hypocritically devout; also : indicative of affected piousness <the king's sanctimonious rebuke -- G. B. Shaw>
2 obsolete : possessing sanctity : HOLY
- sanc·ti·mo·nious·ly adverb
- sanc·ti·mo·nious·ness noun

*looks in thesaurus*

Entry Word: sanctimonious
Function: adjective
Text: Synonyms HYPOCRITICAL, canting, pecksniffian, pharisaic, pharisaical, self-righteous
Related Word deceiving, false; snuffling
Antonyms unsanctimonious

*looks up pharisaical*

One entry found for pharisaical.


Main Entry: phar·i·sa·ical
Pronunciation: -'sA-&-k&l
Function: adjective
: marked by hypocritical censorious self-righteousness
- phar·i·sa·ical·ly /-k(&-)lE/ adverb
- phar·i·sa·ical·ness /-k&l-n&s/ noun

Main Entry: phar·i·see
Pronunciation: 'far-&-(")sE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English pharise, from Old English farise, from Late Latin pharisaeus, from Greek pharisaios, from Aramaic perIshayyA, plural of perIshA, literally, separated
1 capitalized : a member of a Jewish sect of the intertestamental period noted for strict observance of rites and ceremonies of the written law and for insistence on the validity of their own oral traditions concerning the law
2 : a pharisaical person

Wow. You just flipped the script and called me a christ-killer too! :eek:

I won't take offense. In fact, I won't respond to any of more of your posts since you hate me that much.

rice cracker
05-14-2004, 02:33 PM
http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/kimkovach/lame.bmp


Eh, so is this one.

kimpossible
05-14-2004, 02:46 PM
Reasoning? Please don't try to analyze me with the left side of your brain because you won't go very far but I will try to explain anyway... What is it exactly do you want again? Sanctimonious sniping?

*looks up sanctimonious*

Main Entry: sanc·ti·mo·nious
Pronunciation: "sa[ng](k)-t&-'mO-nE-&s, -ny&s
Function: adjective
1 : affecting piousness : hypocritically devout; also : indicative of affected piousness <the king's sanctimonious rebuke -- G. B. Shaw>
2 obsolete : possessing sanctity : HOLY
- sanc·ti·mo·nious·ly adverb
- sanc·ti·mo·nious·ness noun

*looks in thesaurus*

Entry Word: sanctimonious
Function: adjective
Text: Synonyms HYPOCRITICAL, canting, pecksniffian, pharisaic, pharisaical, self-righteous
Related Word deceiving, false; snuffling
Antonyms unsanctimonious

*looks up pharisaical*

One entry found for pharisaical.


Main Entry: phar·i·sa·ical
Pronunciation: -'sA-&-k&l
Function: adjective
: marked by hypocritical censorious self-righteousness
- phar·i·sa·ical·ly /-k(&-)lE/ adverb
- phar·i·sa·ical·ness /-k&l-n&s/ noun

Main Entry: phar·i·see
Pronunciation: 'far-&-(")sE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English pharise, from Old English farise, from Late Latin pharisaeus, from Greek pharisaios, from Aramaic perIshayyA, plural of perIshA, literally, separated
1 capitalized : a member of a Jewish sect of the intertestamental period noted for strict observance of rites and ceremonies of the written law and for insistence on the validity of their own oral traditions concerning the law
2 : a pharisaical person

Wow. You just flipped the script and called me a christ-killer too! :eek:

I won't take offense. In fact, I won't respond to any of more of your posts since you hate me that much.

Look, Empress. Obviously you're looking at this more as a religious topic than film. Kittygirl is looking at this more as a movie than a religious topic. Please stop with these inane emotional posts in order to fight with kittygirl because you feel she's offended your religious beliefs. In no way do you have to agree with her and if you were truly offended you can simply say so but you're investing way too much emotion here and engaging on a personal level.

If you can't debate the movie or debate the point of view in the posts rather than go for the jugular of the poster herself, maybe you should give the forum a break until you can.

rice cracker
05-14-2004, 02:47 PM
^^ Um, that's what I meant to say. *blush*

kitty
05-14-2004, 08:52 PM
wow.

sanctimonious = hypocritically pious and believing oneself superior. i didn't realize this wasn't standard fare vocabulary. didn't expect you'd need a dictionary on that one.

your logic:
sanctimonious = reference to old school religion = old jewish sect = christ killer?

i wasn't about to call you anti-semetic before, but goddamn. meanwhile, since this thread has nowhere to go but sucking, i'm closing.