Better Luck Tomorrow a Complex Exploration of American Suburbia

[kasia]

Better Luck Tomorrow a Complex Exploration of American Suburbia

If, by now, you haven’t heard of Better Luck Tomorrow, MTV Film’s debut acquisition from director Justin Lin, you must be making your home under the largest boulder imaginable. Aside from sharing an acronym with a popular form of sandwich, the BLT evokes in most Asian Americans the expectation of a breakthrough, feel-good movie about Asian American heritage and culture. Nothing could be further from the truth.

full review (http://yellowworld.org/?m=show&id=138)

[kitty]

wow, kasia... thanks for posting that so quickly...

[Xishi]

Do people actually feel that films of this nature are actually of progress to Asian Americans...?

What a crock of BS...

Exposure hardly equates to positive representation...

I happen to enjoy the model-minority aspect of Asian American stereotypes...as it is obviously true according to my experiences with myself...

I was told that this film suggests a more three dimentional depiction of Asian Americans...
Uhh...oh my god....
Being in the position of a minority...we

[SunWuKong]

BLT should stir up Asian American pride because of its position as a pioneering first in Asian American cinema, proving once and for all that there is an Asian American consumer market.


err... the only pioneering thing about BLT was that it caught the eye of an MTV executive, and he bought it. it was certainly not the first Asian American production with an Asian American cast. and just the fact that one dude from MTV liked it certainly doesn't "prove once and for all" that there is an Asian American consumer market.

i mean it's a pretty good film. but it's certainly not the jesus of asian american media that some people want to think it is.

[sOKaLiBoY]

it was just nice to see some of my own peeps on screen. i liked the movie a lot. i hoped that it would have done really well but that's a lot to ask.

[YuheiCarreau]

Dammit, everyone always overlooks Surf Ninjas as the greatest AA film ever. Go rent it today!

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 09:15 AM


err... the only pioneering thing about BLT was that it caught the eye of an MTV executive, and he bought it. it was certainly not the first Asian American production with an Asian American cast. and just the fact that one dude from MTV liked it certainly doesn't "prove once and for all" that there is an Asian American consumer market.

i mean it's a pretty good film. but it's certainly not the jesus of asian american media that some people want to think it is.
Yeah, but it is the first film in a while to have an all-teenaged (well, the characters were teenagers) AA cast. How easy is it for a 15-year-old ABC to identify with the characters in Chan Is Missing? BLT is aimed at an audience of AAs who are very... Well, not vain, but we teenagers place a lot of importance on what we see in movies or on TV, and seeing a bunch of Asians the same age as us in a cool movie is pretty huge.

[kuanyin]

i saw the movie before i left for korea.

i loved it. i think it provides a version of APA's not known to the outside world. its just another perspective to keep in mind of all people. basically, that rules can't apply when people think about race.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 2 2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 09:15 AM


err...  the only pioneering thing about BLT was that it caught the eye of an MTV executive, and he bought it.  it was certainly not the first Asian American production with an Asian American cast.  and just the fact that one dude from MTV liked it certainly doesn't "prove once and for all" that there is an Asian American consumer market.

i mean it's a pretty good film.  but it's certainly not the jesus of asian american media that some people want to think it is.
Yeah, but it is the first film in a while to have an all-teenaged (well, the characters were teenagers) AA cast. How easy is it for a 15-year-old ABC to identify with the characters in Chan Is Missing? BLT is aimed at an audience of AAs who are very... Well, not vain, but we teenagers place a lot of importance on what we see in movies or on TV, and seeing a bunch of Asians the same age as us in a cool movie is pretty huge.
i suppose the teenage aspect is cool. but there have been other asian american films. the difference is that this one got picked up by MTV because one MTV executive liked it. all the other asian american films just never made it out of the film festival circles. or is Charlotte Sometimes going to be played in theaters?

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by Xishi@May 2 2003, 05:22 AM
Do people actually feel that films of this nature are actually of progress to Asian Americans...?

What a crock of BS...

Exposure hardly equates to positive representation...

I happen to enjoy the model-minority aspect of Asian American stereotypes...as it is obviously true according to my experiences with myself...

I was told that this film suggests a more three dimentional depiction of Asian Americans...
Uhh...oh my god....
Being in the position of a minority...we
I'm sorry, but who gives a flying fuck about positive representation? I'm sick of this we gotta put minorities in good spots because we know that can't do that by themselves! I'm sick of positive representation! I want some REAL represenation!

Enjoying the model minority image may be easy, but it's also something we are patronized with, and something that actually hurts many Asian-American kids because non-Asians can't accept it when you're not your pigeon-holed role. People want to live in false reality wistfully think it will save them.

I mean sure, I can put on a Harvard sweatshirt and no one doubts my intelligence and I get treated like the Queen of the Universe (I've tested this theory before) whereas someone would look twice at a Black kid wearing one. Is that ok? Why does that mindset happen? But when an Asian kid fights back against someone, why do people think it's a bigger deal than when Black kids do it?

dum dum dum media media media

I'd rather have this type of exposure than a perpetual stream of one-sided stereotypical characters and live in a shadow of a fake positive image that America gave us to make them feel safter.

Because this movie deals with issues of emotion and oppression, and the realities of anger and aggression that strike out from it. A reality that people are afraid to deal with, because deep down inside they know its real and its three-dimensional, and that's what this picture is all about.

Think about how pigeon-holed you if someone of non-Asian descent cuts you off, cuts in front of you line, says something offensive, or just makes some stupid comment about your ethnicity, and you step up and see how suprised they are you aren't being America's bitch when all you did was fight for your right. All that these kids do in the movie was react and fight back because no one expected them to and did not take it seriously.

[kuanyin]

thank you AzNBuffGrL!!!

[mrazntre]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 3 2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Xishi@May 2 2003, 05:22 AM
Do people actually feel that films of this nature are actually of progress to Asian Americans...?

What a crock of BS...

Exposure hardly equates to positive representation...

I happen to enjoy the model-minority aspect of Asian American stereotypes...as it is obviously true according to my experiences with myself...

I was told that this film suggests a more three dimentional depiction of Asian Americans...
Uhh...oh my god....
Being in the position of a minority...we
I'm sorry, but who gives a flying fuck about positive representation? I'm sick of this we gotta put minorities in good spots because we know that can't do that by themselves! I'm sick of positive representation! I want some REAL represenation!

Enjoying the model minority image may be easy, but it's also something we are patronized with, and something that actually hurts many Asian-American kids because non-Asians can't accept it when you're not your pigeon-holed role. People want to live in false reality wistfully think it will save them.

I mean sure, I can put on a Harvard sweatshirt and no one doubts my intelligence and I get treated like the Queen of the Universe (I've tested this theory before) whereas someone would look twice at a Black kid wearing one. Is that ok? Why does that mindset happen? But when an Asian kid fights back against someone, why do people think it's a bigger deal than when Black kids do it?

dum dum dum media media media

I'd rather have this type of exposure than a perpetual stream of one-sided stereotypical characters and live in a shadow of a fake positive image that America gave us to make them feel safter.

Because this movie deals with issues of emotion and oppression, and the realities of anger and aggression that strike out from it. A reality that people are afraid to deal with, because deep down inside they know its real and its three-dimensional, and that's what this picture is all about.

Think about how pigeon-holed you if someone of non-Asian descent cuts you off, cuts in front of you line, says something offensive, or just makes some stupid comment about your ethnicity, and you step up and see how suprised they are you aren't being America's bitch when all you did was fight for your right. All that these kids do in the movie was react and fight back because no one expected them to and did not take it seriously.
nicely put.


Some white honky dory dumb bitz white h0 of a film critic started to blast this movie due to it's detrimental associations that it portrayed on Asians. This dumb bitz said that asians shouldn't be portraying this type of "behavior" and should only be pursuing those "proper model minority" stereotypes in movies.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! this is GOOD stuff.

white beeyatch telling asians how we should act. Quite quaint is the irony.

White people will never learn. Down with the oppressors.

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by kasia@May 2 2003, 04:23 AM
While the move is indeed the first “mainstream” movie written, directed and starring Asian Americans...
Hey, Kittygirl, this is a good review — very well written and thoughtful. Did you write it? I hope so, and I hope to see more of your writing here and elsewhere. Good job!

And in case anyone cares (though I shouldn't get my hopes up), I disagree with those who say that Better Luck Tomorrow is bad for the Asian image because it portrays APAs doing bad things. What's important is that film is told from an APA perspective with APA main characters. The audience is compelled to see this story from the Asian characters' outlook, and I think that viewers will understand that the characters are rebelling against the "model minority" straitjacket.

Of course, if Better Luck Tomorrow had been written by Michael (Rising Sun) Crichton, the gang's murder victim would have been white, and the story would have been about two non-Asian detectives investigating the murder and linking the gang's criminal behavior to some genetic predisposition to mimic the Asian Triads. Needless to say, that would have been a different movie...

BTW, be sure to check out Justin Lin's previous feature, Shopping for Fangs, co-directed with Quentin Lee.

And for the record — with all due respect to Kittygirl — Better Luck Tomorrow is not "the first 'mainstream' movie written, directed and starring Asian Americans." For starters, this movie probably wouldn't be "mainstream" at all if a major distributor (Paramount) hadn't picked up the independent production. Ten years ago, Wayne Wang's The Joy Luck Club boasted an Asian American director, co-producers, co-writers, co-executive producer, and cast — and its $11 million budget was financed by Disney. And a previous independent production by Wang, 1989's Eat a Bowl of Tea, starring Russell Wong, was produced by PBS and picked up for distribution by Columbia. Sounds to me like they beat BLT to the punch.

Unfortunately, these kinds of films are so infrequent that when one comes along, its predecessors have faded from memory, so it only seems like the first. With the success of Better Luck Tomorrow, maybe we can hope for greater frequency.

[Xishi]

I have not had an oppertunity to finish my last post...

Continuing...

As a minority...we really cannot afford to portray ourselves in this destructive manner....

Not caring about positive representation..and only caring about true...three dimentional depiction..? Lol...but... that sounds somewhat...childish...
So...regardless of the new negative images that will be placed upon Asian Americans...you still praise counter-progressive films of this sort simply because you feel that it reflects some truth...reality... and entertains your fancy..? That sounds kind of selfish to me...
Besides...if you feel that we should even want to see the media used to reflect truth as oppose to positive propaganda purposes...then we are certainly in no place to complain about the depiction of Asians as sneaky...nerdy...and selfish...as I certainly see these types of Asians more than your "Ben Manibag"s...
Should one direct a movie featuring nerds...chinatown sweatshops ect...I am sure that there will be a lack of support...so why should it be any different with a film like BLT with a bunch of Upper middle class Asian thugs...?

To rectify unwanted stereotypes on one extreme...one cannot suggest another...perhaps an even more negative stereotype on the other end of the extreme in hopes to find a balance...
Sorry..but you cannot think of this as parallel to base nutralizing acid...lol...
Negative stereotypes are destructive regardless of what end of the spectrum they are on...and they only accentuate each other...
Only with positive representation can we be improve our image and overcome negative stereotypes...

Direct me a movie featuring some normal Asian individuals at least...
Try Asian alpha males...alpha females....

That should be able to target an audience of a more superior taste...

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 2 2003, 11:12 PM
Ten years ago, Wayne Wang's The Joy Luck Club boasted an Asian American director, co-producers, co-writers, co-executive producer, and cast ?and its $11 million budget was financed by Disney.
i admit that i really liked Joy Luck Club when it first came out. but now that i look back at it with 10 years behind me, i find that movie to be incredibly cheesy. :P the child actors in it were very excellent though. i think irene ng (who also played shelby woo) would make an excellent jubilee in (hopefully) the next x-men movie.

and the book was much better.

[SunWuKong]

you know what i just thought? i would much rather watch a film about poor fobby people living in an ethnic enclave like chinatown or k-town than a film about rich suburban asian americans.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by Xishi@May 2 2003, 11:42 PM
Direct me a movie featuring some normal Asian individuals at least...
Try Asian alpha males...alpha females....


actually, the ppl i watched it with could each identify with one or more of the main characters. everyone said i was practically a dead on match for ben and i'd have to agree. i see those characters as normal cuz i know i was close to becoming like those kids except for a couple of different decisions.

That should be able to target an audience of a more superior taste...
haha! i like that. it's cute. very elitist. but cute.

[moschikat]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 2 2003, 07:12 PM
And a previous independent production by Wang, 1989's Eat a Bowl of Tea, starring Russell Wong, was produced by PBS and picked up for distribution by Columbia.  Sounds to me like they beat BLT to the punch. 


"Eat a Bowl of Tea" - I'm so glad somebody else mentioned this movie :) Thought it had gone unnoticed there!

Off topic here - there were a total of THREE people in the Phoenix theater, including me.

Damn Republican state <_<

And uhm, if more people had supported it a year ago maybe we'd have more better quality independent films . . .

just a thought you know?

[AngryABCGirl]

Sorry to the mods and yw, but I'm going to get uncivil soon and bust out the AzN part of me I got growing up here. Kill my karma if you wish.


I have not had an oppertunity to finish my last post...

Continuing...

As a minority...we really cannot afford to portray ourselves in this destructive manner....

Of course, that's why we need more films like BLT to stop stereotypical portrayals which help destroy ethnic pride and identity.

Not caring about positive representation..and only caring about true...three dimentional depiction..? Lol...but... that sounds somewhat...childish...

Yeah, don't you want to be a REAL human being instead of the white mans best friend.... or the white mans bitch with "positive representation?" Sounds lke you're just afraid for people outside of the Asian community to see flaws so to fix it, just make a caricature and be fake. That sounds a lot more childish and immature.


So...regardless of the new negative images that will be placed upon Asian Americans...you still praise counter-progressive films of this sort simply because you feel that it reflects some truth...reality... and entertains your fancy..? That sounds kind of selfish to me...

Damn right it's selfish, of course I wanna help my community. Aren't you being selfish by wanting to perserve fake images? This movie is the most progressive thing I've seen in the cinema outside of documentaries, and I don't mean Bowling for Columbine. Because anger, aggressive, pigeon-holing, those are truths.


Besides...if you feel that we should even want to see the media used to reflect truth as oppose to positive propaganda purposes...then we are certainly in no place to complain about the depiction of Asians as sneaky...nerdy...and selfish...as I certainly see these types of Asians more than your "Ben Manibag"s...

Positive propaganda purposes? You sound like a bit of a self-loather. Who needs that positive propaganda bullshit, I want some real propaganda.

Come to by neighborhood for it a bit, we're full of Ben Manibags. Drive down through Monterey Park, Temple City, Arcadia, San Marino, Alhambra, Roland Heights, Sunny Hills, and Orange County. Ben Manibags are the Asians of the future, whether you like it or not.

Stuart Tay was Steve Cho, BLT was partially based on fact of what happened in Sunny Hills, get your facts straight.

We are in every place to complain because we are human beings, and we should be seen as such. Everything else is just self-loathing.

Should one direct a movie featuring nerds...chinatown sweatshops ect...I am sure that there will be a lack of support...so why should it be any different with a film like BLT with a bunch of Upper middle class Asian thugs...?

To rectify unwanted stereotypes on one extreme...one cannot suggest another...perhaps an even more negative stereotype on the other end of the extreme in hopes to find a balance...
Sorry..but you cannot think of this as parallel to base nutralizing acid...lol...

You're right, it's not. It's simple a specfic story about upper class kids who struggle with being pigeon-holed and patronized, nothing more. But at least they're real characters. In case if you haven't noticed, Asian-Americans don't want to serve America anymore by retreating into steretypes, but rather as real people who'll fight back when they're put down.

Negative stereotypes are destructive regardless of what end of the spectrum they are on...and they only accentuate each other...
Only with positive representation can we be improve our image and overcome negative stereotypes...

What's positive represenation then? A Ben Manibag who saves the day the by saving a white girl from her crazy redneck husband? Sounds like a pretty stupid premise to me, not to mention unrealistic. Why are we so obessed with images? People like you make me lose face that you don't wanna show your real face.

Direct me a movie featuring some normal Asian individuals at least...
Try Asian alpha males...alpha females....

That should be able to target an audience of a more superior taste...

I don't think we can't get anymore superior taste than the Sundance film festival. It seems like all you want to Asians to look good for the white man- so we can be their best friend and bitch. We're sick of being afraid of wai guo ren and being we've as toys in their world.

Forget it, we've all had enough of that, and nothing will get more alpha male than Daric and nothing is more normal than angry teenage boys.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:16 PM
you know what i just thought? i would much rather watch a film about poor fobby people living in an ethnic enclave like chinatown or k-town than a film about rich suburban asian americans.
Actually I probably would too, but for me this is all I've got to hang on to. Besides it's a good movie and as far I'm concerned it is "The Graduate" of my specfic generation.

When I first watched it, me and my friends actually thought it was too American, until we realized the motives behind that and the fact that the movie is set in Orange County.

I think the movie is teenage angst more than anything else.

What I'd really love to see is an Asian-American cross-cultural comedy a la Bend it Like Beckham, My Big Fat Greek Wedding. And I don't mean the Wedding Banquet.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 3 2003, 03:55 PM
Actually I probably would too, but for me this is all I've got to hang on to.&nbsp; Besides it's a good movie and as far I'm concerned it is "The Graduate" of my specfic generation.

When I first watched it, me and my friends actually thought it was too American, until we realized the motives behind that and the fact that the movie is set in Orange County.&nbsp;

I think the movie is teenage angst more than anything else.

What I'd really love to see is an Asian-American cross-cultural comedy a la Bend it Like Beckham, My Big Fat Greek Wedding.&nbsp; And I don't mean the Wedding Banquet.
Bend It Like Beckham and Big Fat Greek Wedding are both movies about 2nd generation immigrant women who find happiness in the arms of a White guy. That's like, every movie ever made with an Asian woman in it (which is not to say I find those movies offensive, just that the genre is already quite well established).

East Is East is a much better cross-cultural movie. IMO it is the best depiction of an biracial / bicultural family, warts and all, that I have seen onscreen.

[kitty]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 03:15 PM


err...&nbsp; the only pioneering thing about BLT was that it caught the eye of an MTV executive, and he bought it.&nbsp; it was certainly not the first Asian American production with an Asian American cast.&nbsp; and just the fact that one dude from MTV liked it certainly doesn't "prove once and for all" that there is an Asian American consumer market.

i mean it's a pretty good film.&nbsp; but it's certainly not the jesus of asian american media that some people want to think it is.
don't know if it was clear - i meant that BLT was the first to be distributed nationwide and not be an indie film.

BLT has also done a VERY good job in theatres over the past four weeks, thereby proving that AAs will pay to see an AA movie.

[kitty]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 2 2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 09:15 AM


err... the only pioneering thing about BLT was that it caught the eye of an MTV executive, and he bought it. it was certainly not the first Asian American production with an Asian American cast. and just the fact that one dude from MTV liked it certainly doesn't "prove once and for all" that there is an Asian American consumer market.

i mean it's a pretty good film. but it's certainly not the jesus of asian american media that some people want to think it is.
Yeah, but it is the first film in a while to have an all-teenaged (well, the characters were teenagers) AA cast. How easy is it for a 15-year-old ABC to identify with the characters in Chan Is Missing? BLT is aimed at an audience of AAs who are very... Well, not vain, but we teenagers place a lot of importance on what we see in movies or on TV, and seeing a bunch of Asians the same age as us in a cool movie is pretty huge.
i suppose the teenage aspect is cool. but there have been other asian american films. the difference is that this one got picked up by MTV because one MTV executive liked it. all the other asian american films just never made it out of the film festival circles. or is Charlotte Sometimes going to be played in theaters?
SWK, I don't know if I made it clear, but I was trying to say that it is a good film, outside of it being the first from MTV Films and the first nationally distributed AA film. I liked it as a film, but didn't think it was what people expected out of the "pioneering film"...

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 3 2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 3 2003, 03:55 PM
Actually I probably would too, but for me this is all I've got to hang on to. Besides it's a good movie and as far I'm concerned it is "The Graduate" of my specfic generation.

When I first watched it, me and my friends actually thought it was too American, until we realized the motives behind that and the fact that the movie is set in Orange County.

I think the movie is teenage angst more than anything else.

What I'd really love to see is an Asian-American cross-cultural comedy a la Bend it Like Beckham, My Big Fat Greek Wedding. And I don't mean the Wedding Banquet.
Bend It Like Beckham and Big Fat Greek Wedding are both movies about 2nd generation immigrant women who find happiness in the arms of a White guy. That's like, every movie ever made with an Asian woman in it (which is not to say I find those movies offensive, just that the genre is already quite well established).

East Is East is a much better cross-cultural movie. IMO it is the best depiction of an biracial / bicultural family, warts and all, that I have seen onscreen.
Supposedly Justin Lin is going to try to make a romantic comedy about AAs, so I'm thinking that's going to go along the lines of that.

The only thing that bugged me about East is East is that the father seemed too stereotypical and one-sided and the kids were a bit too anxious to rebel, seemed kind of hackneyed, but I don't think the story would have worked any other way. Certainly has the best comedic ending to any movie, ever.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kittygirl@May 4 2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 2 2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 09:15 AM


err...?the only pioneering thing about BLT was that it caught the eye of an MTV executive, and he bought it.?it was certainly not the first Asian American production with an Asian American cast.?and just the fact that one dude from MTV liked it certainly doesn't "prove once and for all" that there is an Asian American consumer market.

i mean it's a pretty good film.?but it's certainly not the jesus of asian american media that some people want to think it is.
Yeah, but it is the first film in a while to have an all-teenaged (well, the characters were teenagers) AA cast. How easy is it for a 15-year-old ABC to identify with the characters in Chan Is Missing? BLT is aimed at an audience of AAs who are very... Well, not vain, but we teenagers place a lot of importance on what we see in movies or on TV, and seeing a bunch of Asians the same age as us in a cool movie is pretty huge.
i suppose the teenage aspect is cool. but there have been other asian american films. the difference is that this one got picked up by MTV because one MTV executive liked it. all the other asian american films just never made it out of the film festival circles. or is Charlotte Sometimes going to be played in theaters?
SWK, I don't know if I made it clear, but I was trying to say that it is a good film, outside of it being the first from MTV Films and the first nationally distributed AA film. I liked it as a film, but didn't think it was what people expected out of the "pioneering film"...
hey babe, it's all good. you wrote a good review. :)

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 3 2003, 05:55 PM
Actually I probably would too, but for me this is all I've got to hang on to. Besides it's a good movie and as far I'm concerned it is "The Graduate" of my specfic generation.

When I first watched it, me and my friends actually thought it was too American, until we realized the motives behind that and the fact that the movie is set in Orange County.

I think the movie is teenage angst more than anything else.

What I'd really love to see is an Asian-American cross-cultural comedy a la Bend it Like Beckham, My Big Fat Greek Wedding. And I don't mean the Wedding Banquet.
hehheh, on a side-note, do you know what The Graduate is really about? it's not about rebellion. it's about not having a purpose in life.

in the beginning of the film, you see Dustin Hoffman with this extremely expressionless... err... expression, on his face. that was because he had graduated and now he didn't want to do anything and didn't have anything to accomplish. at the end of the film, when he was sitting in the bus, after he got the girl, he had the same expressionless expression - he just achieved his goal and now he didn't want to do anything and didn't have anything to accomplish.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 3 2003, 05:48 PM
I don't think we can't get anymore superior taste than the Sundance film festival.
eh
i hear that sundance is not what it used to be and that it's just an event for executives from big studios to buy up independent films.
i personally think that the berlin international film fest, the venice international film fest, and the toronto international film fest has more "superior" taste. ;)

[AngryABCGirl]

I'm comparing BLT and the Graduate kinda the same thing as a satire poking at their societies and shocking them, and in many ways, Ben Manibag might as well be Ben Braddock. Apparently the final scene in BLT with Ben and Stephanie in the car is supposed to be reminecient of Ben and Elaine leaving in the bus.

BLT was at Toronto too though. :lol:

[Xishi]

Yeah, don't you want to be a REAL human being instead of the white mans best friend.... or the white mans bitch with "positive representation?"

My my...lol...

I am sorry...but I do not comprehend you on exactly how positive representation of Asian Americans...for example in the form of elite professionals...high calibers...alpha males ect... in the media is of any equivalence to being "the white man's best friend or bitches..." Ironically...those punkass Asian thugs in BLT running around acting like a bunch of clowns are more fittingly "the white man's bitches" ..no..? Lol....

Sounds lke you're just afraid for people outside of the Asian community to see flaws so to fix it,

Lol...Uhh...
The flaws of the Asian community are about the only things that non-Asians are seeing right now through the media....(ex: paper-thin nerds...study machines...A-sexual males...anti-social shells...)
This is exactly why we do not need "Asian thugs" to be added to the list...
Oh...lol...people outside of the Asian community are certainly in no will to fix the flaws of the Asian community...
Do you even know what depictions of Asian Americans are put out there in the media by these people outside of the Asian community that you so fancied to be eagerly wanting to correct the problems of your community..? Go do some research and come back with a report on how much they...in fact... cannot wait for Asians like you to expose more vulnerabilities that they can employ in further demeaning the image of Asian Americans...

Why are we so obessed with images? People like you make me lose face that you don't wanna show your real face.

You...obviously being of thick face...would of course not care about the image that you present to others...
Regardless...you...BLT thugs...bums...ect...are certainly in no place to tarnish the image of your fellow Asians...

[etcj]

Well I finally got to see BLT last night. They've been cancelling shows for X2...that certainly pissed me off. I've read through a lot of the posts and I do see a pattern occuring. There are two basic camps: <those who feel US culture should get a rude wake-up call> & <those who feel BLT negatively portrayed AAPI's>.

<those who feel US culture should get a rude wake-up call>

I agree with this perspective, because it serves as a reality check for all young people in this society. There are several universal messages that target all groups of young people, particularly high school students. It shows that the education system has inherent discriminations that compel students to take their own measures to succeed in life. I don't see BLT as being a movie about Asian American angst and rebellion; it was more about innovation for reaching ones goals. Ben and Derrick were both aiming to get into the best schools and they were willing to do whatever was necessary. By forming their clique, they sought to collectively do what was necessary to be #1 (legitmately or illegimately).

If you replace Ben, Derrick, Virgil, and Han with non-Asians, how does that change our perspective about academic success/stress?

I did not sense that rebellion played a major role in this movie, because they had never forsaken the dream of going to college and leaving their homes. Perhaps the angst comes in when they realize that success is harder to achieve based on their own shortcomings.

I'll continue my perspective about the opposing view in another post...

[etcj]

continued...

<those who feel BLT negatively portrayed AAPI's>

The stereotypes are negative; you can't get around that fact. However, what community/culture does not get some type of negative stereotype. As long as YOU are able to discern them as stereotypes, it's all that matters. If you are worried about your non-Asian/Pacific Islander peers not seeing that difference, then perhaps YOU should take an opportunity to educate them. Stereotypes aren't always bad, because they help us form opinions and beliefs quickly. If they are negative and biased, then we, either as individuals or a community, must correct them.

AzNBuffGrl (I think) said it best ~ who gives a crap about positive representation? As a minority (as someone put it), we should do everything in our power to make ourselves as diverse as possible with our "small numbers". If we viewed negatively by people outside of our community, YOU can tell them to watch all the other movies out there that negatively portray blacks and Latinos. If they see nothing wrong or inaccurate with those movies, then you should them that they need to wake up.

The same argument was brought up when Queer as Folk came to the US. Critics dismissed the show, because it portrayed gay men and lesbians as being lecherous sex fiends and circuit party boys. However, they later changed their tone when they noticed that the show was continuing to get higher ratings and the characters were getting more developed.

This is why BLT is important. It sets up dialogue about the portrayal of Asians and Pacific Islanders in the United States. If a new director is dissatisfied with this movie, it is her or his responsibility to respond with their own production. By creating more movies and media, we can show opposing views about this difficult topic. We cannot simply dismiss BLT based on it negative portrayals. If you do not like Ben, Virgil, Derrick, Han, or Stephanie, then perhaps it merits another movie that can clarify/change these characters.

Never stop making film, just because they are controversial or "harmful". Otherwise you'd just see white people prancing on the big screen... :P

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by etcj@May 4 2003, 11:52 AM
I don't see BLT as being a movie about Asian American angst and rebellion; it was more about innovation for reaching ones goals. Ben and Derrick were both aiming to get into the best schools and they were willing to do whatever was necessary.
err... my take on it was that they were already pretty damned sure that they would get into an Ivy, and that they weren't worried about it. i thought they were doing the criminal stuff because they were bored. i mean, Ben even said that he was doing it because he was bored.

[etcj]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 4 2003, 12:15 PM
err...&nbsp; my take on it was that they were already pretty damned sure that they would get into an Ivy, and that they weren't worried about it.&nbsp; i thought they were doing the criminal stuff because they were bored.&nbsp; i mean, Ben even said that he was doing it because he was bored.
Well they weren't really worried, but the stress of doing it the "honest" way was still there. Ben's motivation for doing the criminal stuff was partly motivated by money, right? I don't know if he was gonna use it to pay for school, but that box of money sure did get full by the middle of the movie. The boredom seems kinda universal, doesn't it? Teens and high school students all experience boredom at one point or another (and it doesn't stop when you get out of high school either :P ).

[etcj]

Oops, I've been mispelling Daric's name as Derrick. Damn Justin Lin for making names different. :P

[Shuriken]

Good discussion, folks. Here are a few thoughts:

I do not think that the characters in BLT are stereotypes because they are portrayed as well-rounded human beings with whom the audience is supposed to relate. And in my book, when you identify with a character as a fellow human being — and not just a bundle of stock characteristics — that's not a stereotype.

I disagree with Xishi, but (he? she?) makes a valid point: What if the only thing that Hollywood takes away from BLT is that it's okay to portray Asians as criminals. Then, the next time Tinseltown cranks out yet another Year of the Dragon/Showdown in Little Tokyo/Rising Sun/Lethal Weapon 4/The Fast and the Furious — with yet another white hero battling yet another coterie of Asian evildoers — and the community complains about it, the producers will respond by saying, "Well, you didn't have any problem with Better Luck Tomorrow."

Who cares about "positive" portrayals? I do. After seeing how the dehumanizing portrayals of the Japanese and Japanese Americans in World War II movies like Little Tokyo, USA helped to dehumanize real-life Asian Americans and support the internment, I don't buy the argument that "it's only a movie." But just because an Asian character does negative things does not necessarily make the character negative.

By the way, do most YW members see a difference between BLT and movies like Year of the Dragon and Rising Sun?

As far as "educating" one's non-Asian friends who don't get the complexity of BLT, that's sometimes easier said than done. Community perspectives that go against the prevailing winds are often dismissed nowadays as "whining" and "political correctness." There are some opinions and insights that some non-Asians just don't want to hear. And if you happen to be the only Asian — or one of the few Asians — who lives in your small town, it's very easy to be intimidated out of your position.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 3 2003, 01:16 AM
you know what i just thought? i would much rather watch a film about poor fobby people living in an ethnic enclave like chinatown or k-town than a film about rich suburban asian americans.
can't say I disagree. I could actually relate to it. plenty of FOBs could actually relate to it. As well as maybe some segment of AAs.

A lot of people say BLT has finally "three-dimensionalized" Asian-Americans on screen, making them into real people, but all I see is that it "two-dimensionalized" them in a different way ... putting them into roles easily filled by white people and stripping them of all hints of ethnicity aside from their faces. which of course is what Asian America is all about ... an alleged culture based solely on appearance and nothing deeper. Which is why they can make a film about AAs in Southern Cali and include character who is supposed to be a Filipino (Ben), more Filipinos or Southeast Asians in the background, an adoptee (Karin Anna Cheung's character ... blanking out on the name here), a Korean (Han ... maybe a 1.5er? his name wasn't English after all), Chinese, everything, the whole bullshit Asian panethnicity deal ... but no hapas.

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@ May 2 2003, 11:50 AM
Yeah, but it is the first film in a while to have an all-teenaged (well, the characters were teenagers) AA cast. How easy is it for a 15-year-old ABC to identify with the characters in Chan Is Missing?
well yeah, but how easy is it for the people living outside rich suburbs to relate to BLT?

[AngryABCGirl]

can't say I disagree. I could actually relate to it. plenty of FOBs could actually relate to it. As well as maybe some segment of AAs.

A lot of people say BLT has finally "three-dimensionalized" Asian-Americans on screen, making them into real people, but all I see is that it "two-dimensionalized" them in a different way ... putting them into roles easily filled by white people and stripping them of all hints of ethnicity aside from their faces. which of course is what Asian America is all about ... an alleged culture based solely on appearance and nothing deeper. Which is why they can make a film about AAs in Southern Cali and include character who is supposed to be a Filipino (Ben), more Filipinos or Southeast Asians in the background, an adoptee (Karin Anna Cheung's character ... blanking out on the name here), a Korean (Han ... maybe a 1.5er? his name wasn't English after all), Chinese, everything, the whole bullshit Asian panethnicity deal ... but no hapas.

Jason Tobin, the actor that played Virgil, is hapa, but he doesn't look it and I didn't know until I read a bio on his website www.jasontobin.com. He's half-British half-Chinese.

I think the ethnicity was intentionally taken away, because to tell you the truth I don't know many AAs that are so devoid of Asian culture lke them. I'm starting to think the movie is more and more about teenagers and their anger with the world than ethnicity. Also the fact is boredom can also be related to the fact maybe they aren't satisfied with their lives and that do colleges mean that much?

I mean I've secured my admission to a decent school with the programs and environment I want, but I can't help but have this dreading feeling of what next. All my life seems to have been building up toward this one-sided goal and now I'm not sure what to do but get into a good grad school.

Steve says he's happy that he has everything in the movie, yet he's undeniably depressed. I think Justin Lin was trying to say something about materialism here and that things don't take place of intangible things such as parental attention, heathly relationships with friends, and "working not for the money."

Edit: I'm not gonna argue with Xishi's outdated mode of thought anymore. Something that like is easily fixed when a non-Asian pushes his/her kid out of the way b ecause they think they're harmless or teachers won't understand why the kid might need help in a class because "Asians don't have problems and we're all positive and let's keep up those good images!"

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 4 2003, 02:49 PM
because to tell you the truth I don't know many AAs that are so devoid of Asian culture lke them.
hah, I invite you to come back to New England and meet more of the locals. :P

actually you'll probably find a lot of such types at Davis too. Norcal suburbanites are a lot different than their Socal counterparts ...

Edit: I'm not gonna argue with Xishi's outdated mode of thought anymore.
ya know, BLT I think is serving to make some non-Asians a lot more aware of the FOB-AA split. Cuz all the AAs I know are raving about the thing like there's no tomorrow and trying to drag every person on their floor to see it, one student group at our school even sent out an email "If you go to see X-Men 2 this weekend, buy a ticket for BLT and then jump theatres", but the best reaction I've seen from most overseas-educated friends is lukewarm, and they say so to other people.

[etcj]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 4 2003, 01:32 PM
I do not think that the characters in BLT are stereotypes because they are portrayed as well-rounded human beings with whom the audience is supposed to relate.&nbsp; And in my book, when you identify with a character as a fellow human being — and not just a bundle of stock characteristics — that's not a stereotype.

Well one of the predominant stereotypes in the movie, of course, is the model minority myth - overachieving Asian students eagerly trying to succeed in stifling environments. You can't discount that stereotype even if they do some things that don't seem so "Asian" nor positive.

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 4 2003, 01:32 PM
Who cares about "positive" portrayals?&nbsp; I do.

But just because an Asian character does negative things does not necessarily make the character negative.&nbsp;
I think we agree on this point, right? Stereotypes don't necessarily have to be negative nor do people have to avoid fitting a stereotype. Perhaps you did put it in a better way.. :)

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 4 2003, 01:32 PM
As far as "educating" one's non-Asian friends who don't get the complexity of BLT, that's sometimes easier said than done.&nbsp; Community perspectives that go against the prevailing winds are often dismissed nowadays as "whining" and "political correctness."&nbsp; There are some opinions and insights that some non-Asians just don't want to hear.&nbsp; And if you happen to be the only Asian — or one of the few Asians — who lives in your small town, it's very easy to be intimidated out of your position.

This is perhaps where I disagree... Although something might be difficult to do, it doesn't mean that we should avoid it. Of course, if it is a matter of safety and well-being, I wouldn't advocate for individuals to speak out. However, if we (or I) have the power to say something about the issues in BLT, then it would be "desirable" to try and educate others. Also, if you cannot find anyone locally or offline to talk about this stuff, you can find other outlets. Totally biased on my part, but sites like YW are perhaps good outlets for those who feel unsafe in their own environment.

In building community, I would hope that other communities of color would be willing to embrace this movie as a significant achievement in American filmology (hope that's a word..). Just as how there are other groundbreaking films out there that deserve merit, Lin's BLT should be viewed not only by Asian and Pacific Islanders, but also by other communities of color. Through my own experiences, our umbrella term of "community of color" doesn't necessarily mean that we are entirely competent about each other cultures. Albeit people's disagreement over positive portrayals, it is important for people to watch it so they can develop dialogue. One of my favorite mottos is, "Don't take silence for complacency."

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@May 4 2003, 03:33 PM
A lot of people say BLT has finally "three-dimensionalized" Asian-Americans on screen, making them into real people, but all I see is that it "two-dimensionalized" them in a different way ... putting them into roles easily filled by white people and stripping them of all hints of ethnicity aside from their faces. which of course is what Asian America is all about ... an alleged culture based solely on appearance and nothing deeper. Which is why they can make a film about AAs in Southern Cali and include character who is supposed to be a Filipino (Ben), more Filipinos or Southeast Asians in the background, an adoptee (Karin Anna Cheung's character ... blanking out on the name here), a Korean (Han ... maybe a 1.5er? his name wasn't English after all), Chinese, everything, the whole bullshit Asian panethnicity deal ... but no hapas.
agreed.

but actually i couldn't decide whether Ben's character was supposed to be mixed or a filipino guy. the actor's name is Perry Shen. that sounds potentially chinese. and Ben's last name, Manibag, doesn't sound spanish (or does it?).

[etcj]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 4 2003, 04:52 PM
agreed.

but actually i couldn't decide whether Ben's character was supposed to be mixed or a filipino guy. the actor's name is Perry Shen. that sounds potentially chinese. and Ben's last name, Manibag, doesn't sound spanish (or does it?).
It would be funny to discover that Ben's last name, Manibag is just a play on words for "money bag". :P

[kitty]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 3 2003, 03:12 AM
Hey, Kittygirl, this is a good review — very well written and thoughtful. Did you write it? I hope so, and I hope to see more of your writing here and elsewhere. Good job!

And in case anyone cares (though I shouldn't get my hopes up), I disagree with those who say that Better Luck Tomorrow is bad for the Asian image because it portrays APAs doing bad things. What's important is that film is told from an APA perspective with APA main characters. The audience is compelled to see this story from the Asian characters' outlook, and I think that viewers will understand that the characters are rebelling against the "model minority" straitjacket.

Of course, if Better Luck Tomorrow had been written by Michael (Rising Sun) Crichton, the gang's murder victim would have been white, and the story would have been about two non-Asian detectives investigating the murder and linking the gang's criminal behavior to some genetic predisposition to mimic the Asian Triads. Needless to say, that would have been a different movie...

BTW, be sure to check out Justin Lin's previous feature, Shopping for Fangs, co-directed with Quentin Lee.

And for the record — with all due respect to Kittygirl — Better Luck Tomorrow is not "the first 'mainstream' movie written, directed and starring Asian Americans." For starters, this movie probably wouldn't be "mainstream" at all if a major distributor (Paramount) hadn't picked up the independent production. Ten years ago, Wayne Wang's The Joy Luck Club boasted an Asian American director, co-producers, co-writers, co-executive producer, and cast — and its $11 million budget was financed by Disney. And a previous independent production by Wang, 1989's Eat a Bowl of Tea, starring Russell Wong, was produced by PBS and picked up for distribution by Columbia. Sounds to me like they beat BLT to the punch.

Unfortunately, these kinds of films are so infrequent that when one comes along, its predecessors have faded from memory, so it only seems like the first. With the success of Better Luck Tomorrow, maybe we can hope for greater frequency.
yep, I wrote it myself...

and i think of Joy Luck Club as having been made predominantly for a white audience than an actual discussion on ethnic, cultural, or generationl identity. I haven't seen Eat a Bowl of Tea, but I think you're right that my statement is misleading. I should retract it :)

[kitty]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 4 2003, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by kittygirl@May 4 2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 2 2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 09:15 AM


err...?the only pioneering thing about BLT was that it caught the eye of an MTV executive, and he bought it.?it was certainly not the first Asian American production with an Asian American cast.?and just the fact that one dude from MTV liked it certainly doesn't "prove once and for all" that there is an Asian American consumer market.

i mean it's a pretty good film.?but it's certainly not the jesus of asian american media that some people want to think it is.
Yeah, but it is the first film in a while to have an all-teenaged (well, the characters were teenagers) AA cast. How easy is it for a 15-year-old ABC to identify with the characters in Chan Is Missing? BLT is aimed at an audience of AAs who are very... Well, not vain, but we teenagers place a lot of importance on what we see in movies or on TV, and seeing a bunch of Asians the same age as us in a cool movie is pretty huge.
i suppose the teenage aspect is cool. but there have been other asian american films. the difference is that this one got picked up by MTV because one MTV executive liked it. all the other asian american films just never made it out of the film festival circles. or is Charlotte Sometimes going to be played in theaters?
SWK, I don't know if I made it clear, but I was trying to say that it is a good film, outside of it being the first from MTV Films and the first nationally distributed AA film. I liked it as a film, but didn't think it was what people expected out of the "pioneering film"...
hey babe, it's all good. you wrote a good review. :)
thank you sweetie. you are too kind :)

I think I'm going to have to agree with Bessie here. I think that to demand that Hollywood make a Care Bears cotton candy flick about Asian American is pretty much a cop-out. Why is it that people have such a visceral and negative reaction to representations of Asian Americans as human?? We are all fallible and it's not bringing down the race to say that Asian Americans are capable of stupidity and poor decisions.

Asian Americans are seen as the model minority, and while it may seem like a "good" stereotype, it has so many negative side effects. To see Asians as infallible means that as far as America is concerned, Asians don't have problems. The reality is that we have just as many problems that need to be addressed as any other minority or mainstream community. We have high levels of suicide, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, domestic violence, and supcetibility to gang warfare.

In this day and age, Hollywood IS our reality. What we see on TV or on the big screen shapes the roles that we play in society. And if we wanted to limit our representations to "positive propaganda" we would be denying the members of our communities who need help. Instead, we should be portrayed as real people -- this will bring to light the realities of our issues and force our country to own up to the fact that we are not robots, not all well educated, not all perfect model minorities. Maybe then we'll see some social programming that betters our community rather than all of America turning a blind eye to nearly 10% of its population.

[kitty]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 4 2003, 05:15 PM
err... my take on it was that they were already pretty damned sure that they would get into an Ivy, and that they weren't worried about it. i thought they were doing the criminal stuff because they were bored. i mean, Ben even said that he was doing it because he was bored.
I think I disagree with etcj about this because the criminal activity that Daric and Ben participated in would've jeoparadized their chances of getting into any college. They were doing it out of boredom and hatred of the suburban stability that they lived in ... they had no sense of self-identity and was lashing out in a reckless way to try and do something other than what they should. They wanted to see how far they could go and still maintain their privilege as good overachievers - Daric's wake-up call is that he may end up losing everything b/c of Steve's death and that Ben and them were not his friends like he thought.

I pity him the most, I think.

[kitty]

Originally posted by etcj@May 4 2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 4 2003, 04:52 PM
agreed.

but actually i couldn't decide whether Ben's character was supposed to be mixed or a filipino guy.&nbsp; the actor's name is Perry Shen.&nbsp; that sounds potentially chinese.&nbsp; and Ben's last name, Manibag, doesn't sound spanish (or does it?).
It would be funny to discover that Ben's last name, Manibag is just a play on words for "money bag". :P
that's what i thought it was...

[kitty]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 4 2003, 06:32 PM
I disagree with Xishi, but (he? she?) makes a valid point: What if the only thing that Hollywood takes away from BLT is that it's okay to portray Asians as criminals. Then, the next time Tinseltown cranks out yet another Year of the Dragon/Showdown in Little Tokyo/Rising Sun/Lethal Weapon 4/The Fast and the Furious — with yet another white hero battling yet another coterie of Asian evildoers — and the community complains about it, the producers will respond by saying, "Well, you didn't have any problem with Better Luck Tomorrow."


I agree with Bess that the ethnicity of the characters is almost incidental, but it strengthens the message of the movie by having them Asian, and layers it in a way that would be different if they were all black, all Latino, all Native American, or all white.

I think if people believe that BLT did nothing more than reinforce the thug stereotype, (no offense) but we weren't watching the same movie. The Asians turn to a life of criminality. But it's a story ploy to discuss the problems of suburbia. It doesn't say that the Asians were good criminals, or that they should've been criminals, or anything. In fact, it says the opposite. I don't see how Hollywood would get the idea that thsi movie says it's okay to portray Asians as criminals.

&nbsp; But just because an Asian character does negative things does not necessarily make the character negative.&nbsp;

exactly.


By the way, do most YW members see a difference between BLT and movies like Year of the Dragon and Rising Sun?&nbsp;

Big differentce. I didn't see Year of the Dragon but Rising Sun was about the Chinese mafia. And they're lack of respect for American law - essentially a Yellow Peril hysteria. BLT is... not.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by etcj@May 4 2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 4 2003, 04:52 PM
agreed.

but actually i couldn't decide whether Ben's character was supposed to be mixed or a filipino guy. the actor's name is Perry Shen. that sounds potentially chinese. and Ben's last name, Manibag, doesn't sound spanish (or does it?).
It would be funny to discover that Ben's last name, Manibag is just a play on words for "money bag". :P
manibag sounded like a non-hispanicized filipino name to me. and virgil's surname is supposed to be Hu. not sure it is mentioned in the movie though.

edit: and of course, we never can actually know, cuz we never see any of their parents. it's as though they were deliberately made absent, which is somewhat odd for a movie about teen rebellion ... since the major authority figures in most teens' lives against whom they would rebel are their parents. Of course, putting parents into BLT might have necessitated showing, and therefore promoting, that horrible, unspeakable stereotype, Asians who speak foreign languages, wear big glasses, and eat funny food.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@May 4 2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by etcj@May 4 2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 4 2003, 04:52 PM
agreed.

but actually i couldn't decide whether Ben's character was supposed to be mixed or a filipino guy. the actor's name is Perry Shen. that sounds potentially chinese. and Ben's last name, Manibag, doesn't sound spanish (or does it?).
It would be funny to discover that Ben's last name, Manibag is just a play on words for "money bag". :P
manibag sounded like a non-hispanicized filipino name to me. and virgil's surname is supposed to be Hu. not sure it is mentioned in the movie though.

edit: and of course, we never can actually know, cuz we never see any of their parents. it's as though they were deliberately made absent, which is somewhat odd for a movie about teen rebellion ... since the major authority figures in most teens' lives against whom they would rebel are their parents. Of course, putting parents into BLT might have necessitated showing, and therefore promoting, that horrible, unspeakable stereotype, Asians who speak foreign languages, wear big glasses, and eat funny food.
It's not funny food, it's better tasting food. :rolleyes:

In the Chinese Daily News.. there was a bit from an interview with Justin Lin that many Asian parents don't pay attention to what their kids are doing and assume everything is all right if they're getting good grades, because back in the day in Taiwan for my parents anyway, they were so pre-occupied with school all day they didn't have time to get into trouble in comparsion to Ben and Co.

I think that's pretty much true, straight-As are an ablibi and I've my GPA many times to my parents to justify freedoms or tell them I'm out studying.

But it's easy to get bored and seduced by that freedom in a BLT-esque neighborhood.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kittygirl@May 4 2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Shuriken@May 3 2003, 03:12 AM
Hey, Kittygirl, this is a good review ?very well written and thoughtful.&nbsp; Did you write it?&nbsp; I hope so, and I hope to see more of your writing here and elsewhere.&nbsp; Good job!&nbsp;

And in case anyone cares (though I shouldn't get my hopes up), I disagree with those who say that Better Luck Tomorrow is bad for the Asian image because it portrays APAs doing bad things.&nbsp; What's important is that film is told from an APA perspective with APA main characters.&nbsp; The audience is compelled to see this story from the Asian characters' outlook, and I think that viewers will understand that the characters are rebelling against the "model minority" straitjacket.&nbsp;

Of course, if Better Luck Tomorrow had been written by Michael (Rising Sun) Crichton, the gang's murder victim would have been white, and the story would have been about two non-Asian detectives investigating the murder and linking the gang's criminal behavior to some genetic predisposition to mimic the Asian Triads.&nbsp; Needless to say, that would have been a different movie...&nbsp;

BTW, be sure to check out Justin Lin's previous feature, Shopping for Fangs, co-directed with Quentin Lee.&nbsp;

And for the record ?with all due respect to Kittygirl ?Better Luck Tomorrow is not "the first 'mainstream' movie written, directed and starring Asian Americans."&nbsp; For starters, this movie probably wouldn't be "mainstream" at all if a major distributor (Paramount) hadn't picked up the independent production.&nbsp; Ten years ago, Wayne Wang's The Joy Luck Club boasted an Asian American director, co-producers, co-writers, co-executive producer, and cast ?and its $11 million budget was financed by Disney.&nbsp; And a previous independent production by Wang, 1989's Eat a Bowl of Tea, starring Russell Wong, was produced by PBS and picked up for distribution by Columbia.&nbsp; Sounds to me like they beat BLT to the punch.&nbsp;

Unfortunately, these kinds of films are so infrequent that when one comes along, its predecessors have faded from memory, so it only seems like the first.&nbsp; With the success of Better Luck Tomorrow, maybe we can hope for greater frequency.
yep, I wrote it myself...

and i think of Joy Luck Club as having been made predominantly for a white audience than an actual discussion on ethnic, cultural, or generationl identity. I haven't seen Eat a Bowl of Tea, but I think you're right that my statement is misleading. I should retract it :)
yes, definitely. joy luck club was made for a white audience. all of amy tan's books as well.

[etcj]

Originally posted by kittygirl@May 4 2003, 05:27 PM
I think I disagree with etcj about this because the criminal activity that Daric and Ben participated in would've jeoparadized their chances of getting into any college. They were doing it out of boredom and hatred of the suburban stability that they lived in ... they had no sense of self-identity and was lashing out in a reckless way to try and do something other than what they should. They wanted to see how far they could go and still maintain their privilege as good overachievers - Daric's wake-up call is that he may end up losing everything b/c of Steve's death and that Ben and them were not his friends like he thought.

I pity him the most, I think.
I think you got confused with what I said, kittygirl. I said that they weren't worried about going to college, not the criminal activity. They were all pretty sure about going to one college or another. As you said, it was at the point when Steve died that things started to get rocky.

[deez nuts]

seems like asian 90210 commits a felony, to me. then again, i haven't seen the movie to make a fair judgement only from what i've read from kitty's review.

committed a felony cuz they were bored? geez, this doesn't make us look like a bunch of stuck up and spoiled brats. why does the term wankstas come to mind.

it'll prolly interest me more if it was done in an urban asian town i.e. nyc's chinatown or something.

first this movie is based in cali and in a suburban high school. neither of which i went to or can relate to. mebbe if they made a sequel and based it in nyc out of stuyvesant, then i'll jump in line to go see it.

woohoo shameless plug:

go stuy!

http://www.stuy.edu/

[kitty]

Originally posted by etcj@May 5 2003, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by kittygirl@May 4 2003, 05:27 PM
I think I disagree with etcj about this because the criminal activity that Daric and Ben participated in would've jeoparadized their chances of getting into any college. They were doing it out of boredom and hatred of the suburban stability that they lived in ... they had no sense of self-identity and was lashing out in a reckless way to try and do something other than what they should. They wanted to see how far they could go and still maintain their privilege as good overachievers - Daric's wake-up call is that he may end up losing everything b/c of Steve's death and that Ben and them were not his friends like he thought.

I pity him the most, I think.
I think you got confused with what I said, kittygirl. I said that they weren't worried about going to college, not the criminal activity. They were all pretty sure about going to one college or another. As you said, it was at the point when Steve died that things started to get rocky.
oh, okay, you're right I was confused. Thanks for clearing it up. :)

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by kittygirl@May 4 2003, 10:34 PM
Big differentce. I didn't see Year of the Dragon but Rising Sun was about the Chinese mafia. And they're lack of respect for American law - essentially a Yellow Peril hysteria. BLT is... not.
Agree with the "Yellow Peril hysteria" part. But just for the record, Rising Sun was about Japanese corporations trying to take over U.S. companies by having white Americans murdered.

[Shuriken]

Here's a thought: It's interesting that BLT's characters have been largely embraced by this site. However, Lucy Liu's character on Ally McBeal has not. I still see her described as a "dragon lady," while how this term applies to her character isn't clear to me.

[Nightworlder]

This flick looks like a piece of refried dogshiet that MTV's throwing out at the imbecilles who think this shits tight and fresh. Take your overused, overhyped and overly generic crime/gansta plot, make sure the entire damn cast is asian, and some idiotic critics out there are bound to give it some kinda props because 'there are ASIAN people in it'. Wooo hooo. You'd have to pay me to see shit like BLT.

[kitty]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 5 2003, 08:07 PM
Agree with the "Yellow Peril hysteria" part. But just for the record, Rising Sun was about Japanese corporations trying to take over U.S. companies by having white Americans murdered.
whoops... sorry :) I haven't seen the movie in forever. And I keep thinking of the guy who plays the son who's a Chinese actor.

[kitty]

Originally posted by Nightworlder@May 5 2003, 08:40 PM
This flick looks like a piece of refried dogshiet that MTV's throwing out at the imbecilles who think this shits tight and fresh. Take your overused, overhyped and overly generic crime/gansta plot, make sure the entire damn cast is asian, and some idiotic critics out there are bound to give it some kinda props because 'there are ASIAN people in it'. Wooo hooo. You'd have to pay me to see shit like BLT.
Nightworlder, this is an interesting reaction. I'm sorry to hear that you don't want to see the movie because I would like to know if you feel it's a generic movie after having seen it. I disagree that it's generic, largely because there isn't much about 'gangstas' in the movie -- i actually think you're right that MTV has mis-marketed the movie so it comes off that way.

[kitty]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 5 2003, 08:10 PM
Here's a thought: It's interesting that BLT's characters have been largely embraced by this site. However, Lucy Liu's character on Ally McBeal has not. I still see her described as a "dragon lady," while how this term applies to her character isn't clear to me.
Lucy Liu is a bitchy, emotion-less control freak who only dates white men and... well... controls them. I remember being really shocked that I saw the opening credits once and Lucy is actually spitting fire in it. If that's not a dragon lady I don't know what is :lol:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 5 2003, 04:10 PM
Here's a thought: It's interesting that BLT's characters have been largely embraced by this site. However, Lucy Liu's character on Ally McBeal has not. I still see her described as a "dragon lady," while how this term applies to her character isn't clear to me.
what? i totally embrace lucy liu's character on ally mcbeal. in fact i do that every night in my dreams.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 5 2003, 02:10 PM
Here's a thought: It's interesting that BLT's characters have been largely embraced by this site. However, Lucy Liu's character on Ally McBeal has not. I still see her described as a "dragon lady," while how this term applies to her character isn't clear to me.
That's because Ally McBeal is a boring show. I like Russel Wong, but I don't care much for what he does on Black Sash; same with Kelly Hu on Martial Law.

Actually, I don't really like Lucy Liu much at all. I don't think that her character is any more of a stereotype than every other character on the show, though :lol:

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Nightworlder@May 5 2003, 02:40 PM
This flick looks like a piece of refried dogshiet that MTV's throwing out at the imbecilles who think this shits tight and fresh. Take your overused, overhyped and overly generic crime/gansta plot, make sure the entire damn cast is asian, and some idiotic critics out there are bound to give it some kinda props because 'there are ASIAN people in it'. Wooo hooo. You'd have to pay me to see shit like BLT.
Actually MTV had nothing to do with the creation of this film. It may not suit your tastes, but it was produced, written, and directed by an Asian man, not a bunch of White corporate execs.

[etcj]

Have we finally exhausted all conversation topics about BLT? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[KATANA]

Lucy Liu SUCKS! :angry:

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by etcj@May 6 2003, 01:34 PM
Have we finally exhausted all conversation topics about BLT? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hmm... how can we get more people to go watch BLT?

[kitty]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 7 2003, 05:18 AM
Hmm... how can we get more people to go watch BLT?
I'm afraid to say I think everyone who was gonna see the movie has. We could maybe do another massive grassroots publicity campaign for when it comes out on video/dvd...

[blkazngirl]

Where I live in CT, it was hard as hell to find a movie theater that played it. And trust me, I had to travel several towns away. Anyway, I thought the movie was done very well. It hit home in some ways, with my brother's and I growing up. I want to buy it when it becomes available.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kittygirl@May 7 2003, 02:10 AM
I'm afraid to say I think everyone who was gonna see the movie has.
that really shouldn't surprise anybody. asian people only consists of about 3% to 4% of the entire US population. remember that fobs probably wouldn't care to watch it. as for a non-asian audience, i don't personally expect many non-asian people to want to watch a film with an all-asian cast.

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by KATANA@May 6 2003, 10:32 PM
Lucy Liu SUCKS! :angry:
Most sexually active women do.

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 7 2003, 03:02 PM
i don't personally expect many non-asian people to want to watch a film with an all-asian cast.
Why would anyone expect Asian people to watch a movie with an all-non-Asian cast?

[KATANA]

"Most sexually active women do."

Yeah, your right. But getting back to BLT, MTV should take some of the money that the film has already earned and put it in advertisement for the movie. I mean, how are people outside of the asian community supposed to see this film if they don't know it's playing at theatres?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 7 2003, 12:15 PM
Why would anyone expect Asian people to watch a movie with an all-non-Asian cast?
because, mr. shuriken, americans don't have any other choice.

[etcj]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 7 2003, 10:02 AM
that really shouldn't surprise anybody.&nbsp; asian people only consists of about 3% to 4% of the entire US population.&nbsp; remember that fobs probably wouldn't care to watch it.&nbsp; as for a non-asian audience, i don't personally expect many non-asian people to want to watch a film with an all-asian cast.
Hey you! Are you stealing my statistics???? :P

Well I'm surprised that they are showing them in the big mainstream theatres like AMC and National Amusement.

Here's a relevation about BLT and the potential DVD:

I was thinking that the ending could have been different. Instead of the "happy" ending, I think they should have stopped it at the moment at which they discover who made the call to the cell phone. Then they could have left all that additional stuff for a DVD extra. I thought the "happy" ending was a bit cheesy...it's sort of like the same situation as the ending in the book, Great Expectations by Charles Dicken.

Oh yeah, I'm purposely being vague about it so I don't spoil the movie for folks who have not seen it yet.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by etcj@May 7 2003, 06:30 PM
Hey you! Are you stealing my statistics???? :P

Well I'm surprised that they are showing them in the big mainstream theatres like AMC and National Amusement.

Here's a relevation about BLT and the potential DVD:

I was thinking that the ending could have been different. Instead of the "happy" ending, I think they should have stopped it at the moment at which they discover who made the call to the cell phone. Then they could have left all that additional stuff for a DVD extra. I thought the "happy" ending was a bit cheesy...it's sort of like the same situation as the ending in the book, Great Expectations by Charles Dicken.

Oh yeah, I'm purposely being vague about it so I don't spoil the movie for folks who have not seen it yet.
i want an alternative zombie ending, where the dead dude's corpse becomes a zombie and starts killing people, and whoever it kills, their dead bodies become zombies also. so on and so forth. that would rock.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by Shuriken@May 7 2003, 08:15 AM
Why would anyone expect Asian people to watch a movie with an all-non-Asian cast?
Why do midwest white kids eat up urban hip hop culture?

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 7 2003, 10:40 PM
Why do midwest white kids eat up urban hip hop culture?
If you're in a society that emphasizes strength, power, and money... you'll have people emulating that. So kids who see that... want to be like that. And white kids have no identity. So they try to identify with urban culture. Big friggin' whoop. So they start up "wannabe" gangs, and say they're with blood or crypts, etc, etc. Which would never happen, since they've never been in jail, let alone been near anyone remotely close to them. And the whole hip hop culture scares their parents in general, who supposedly practice good morals, etc. So to rebel, they adopt this culture to think they're all badass and etc.

Gah.. I could go on and on about this subject.

Let's just say they're fucking stupid. I hate that shit.

[etcj]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 8 2003, 01:40 AM
Why do midwest white kids eat up urban hip hop culture?
Well Asian kids do the same thing...

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by etcj@May 8 2003, 04:24 PM
Why do white kids buy up hip hop culture?

Well Asian kids do the same thing...
So maybe with the right advertising this movie could crossover to them too.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by Fireblade@May 8 2003, 08:13 AM
If you're in a society that emphasizes strength, power, and money....
Maybe I'm just wet behind the ears and still relatively raw amid my higher-education experience but I have a hard time finding a current society that doesn't emphasize or place value on these three things. I'm sure that there were various older societies which carried other more altruistic or philanthropic values such as those of indigenous tribes over the world (before they were colonized) and those of Native Americans (ok so they were also indigenous). Maybe I'm just too American.... :unsure: Or maybe we are just turning into a globe full of whores.

I'm currently debating with myself whether or not individuals/humans are naturally power or control lusting (considering also that money these days has a way of bestowing privilege of power, strength, and control) regardless of the specific values that their respective society(s) stress. My Asian Amer Studies prof would argue otherwise but I'm not quite sure where I stand yet.

[nonamerasian]

I'm afraid to say I think everyone who was gonna see the movie has. We could maybe do another massive grassroots publicity campaign for when it comes out on video/dvd...

No need.

It's on cable now.