legalizing prostitution

[kasia]

should prostitution be legalized? why or why not?

and if not, do you think that hostess bars and such should also be outlawed?

do any of you know any prostitutes? any stories to share?


here's an article for your consideration:

10 Reasons for Not Legalizing Prostitution
Pulication date: 7 Apr 03
Author(s): Janice G. Raymond
10 Reasons for Not Legalizing Prostitution
by Janice G. Raymond
Coalition Against Trafficking in Women International (CATW)
(March 25, 2003)

SUMMARY
The following arguments apply to all state-sponsored forms of prostitution, including but not limited to full-scale legalization of brothels and pimping, decriminalization of the sex industry, regulating prostitution by laws such as registering or mandating health checks for women in prostitution, or any system in which prostitution is recognized as sex work or advocated as an employment choice.

As countries are considering legalizing and decriminalizing the sex industry, we urge you to consider the ways in which legitimating prostitution as work does not empower the women in prostitution but does everything to strengthen the sex industry.

1. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution is a gift to pimps, traffickers and the sex industry.

2. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution and the sex industry promotes sex trafficking.

3. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution does not control the sex industry. It expands it.

4. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution increases clandestine, hidden, illegal and street prostitution.

5. Legalization of prostitution and decriminalization of the sex industry increases child prostitution.

6. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution does not protect the women in prostitution.

7. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution increases the demand for prostitution. It boosts the motivation of men to buy women for sex in a much wider and more permissible range of socially acceptable settings.

8. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution does not promote women's health.

9. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution does not enhance women's choice.

10. Women in systems of prostitution do not want the sex industry legalized or decriminalized.

[tapestrybabe]

i think it should be legalized...
cuz in the end...
the act is between consenting adults...
at least thats the way every act should be...
whether if its done out of recreation., prostituting yourself...
or for whatever reason...

do i find it kinda dehumanizing...
that some women do it...
cuz they feel they have no other option...
kinda... but i dont think thats a basis...
for making it illegal...

rather than focusing on making the whole act forbidden...
why not focus on giving the women who do it...
more opportunities, for those who feel limited...

[kitty]

I think it should be legalized for the purposes of regulation.... to prevent spread of STD's and people in the industry being forced into inhumane conditions, against their control.

[Craig]

There's a typo in the title ...
legalizing prostition

[tapestrybabe]

maybe i'm naive in my way of thinking...
but i think prostitutes... when it comes to the nature of their job...
they would already make it a point to be careful when it comes to protecting themselves from contacting any std's... aids, and such... cuz such diseases...they would be out of a job...

anyways...
i would never prostitute myself...
but i've been in a position where i could have...
where i was offered money for my services...
and that experience...
and i dunno why...
but it just felt like it was unbeneath me...

[younggiftedandblack]

I say it should be legalize for the exact same reasons as metioned before.

I have known and became friends with some prostitutes in the past. They were all nice people just doing what they do to make it in this world. Like everyone else.

[tapestrybabe]

and yeah, why should ppl put their judgement to those who do it... just cuz it maybe seen as something dirty... and not a respectable 'profession'... its not like a regular 9 to 5 desk job and what have you...

if anything, there should be better treatment towards prostitutes... but than again, its not a profession... that i exactly look up to in high regards sometimes... like i feel sad to those who do it... cuz they see it as the only way to make a living... and to those who actually want more options... like i said before... especially if i was friends with one... i would like to focus on giving more opportunities, choices to them instead...

[John0101]

I have to agree, that prositution should be legalized but regulated.

[kitty]

incidentally, have you guys seen the HBO specials on prostitution? Do you think these documentaries truthfully portray prostitutes?

For me, watching the interviews made me understand how dangerous prostituion can be, and how it can be empowering from some perspectives (and obviously not empowering in others). I definitely think regulation is the best thing for the industry.

[tapestrybabe]

incidentally, have you guys seen the HBO specials on prostitution? Do you think these documentaries truthfully portray prostitutes?

For me, watching the interviews made me understand how dangerous prostituion can be, and how it can be empowering from some perspectives (and obviously not empowering in others).

really...
i've never seen the program...
so explain... empowering how??

[Tao]

i believe george carlin said it best:

"fucking is legal, selling is legal.....why isn't selling fucking legal?...it would seem like a perfectly logical conclusion.....out of all the things you can do to a person, giving them an orgasm is hardly the worst."

of course prostitutes should get health examinations every so often, and have a license saying that they are clean of std's.

[rice cracker]

1. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution is a gift to pimps, traffickers and the sex industry.
While it could be considered a "gift" to the sex industry, I think it takes away power from pimps and traffickers because it puts more options into the hands of the person who is actually selling their body. A prostitute wouldn't have to depend on an abusive pimp or be sold through a trafficker because they could conceivably open up shop, so to speak, for themselves, and the people that "facilitate" the business would be more competative and regulated.

2. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution and the sex industry promotes sex trafficking.
How would this lead to more trafficking than there already is? That is, if I'm correct in thinking that by trafficking they mean slavery/indentured servitude.

3. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution does not control the sex industry. It expands it.
This I agree with. By legalizing prostitution it becomes regulated and efficient, and the potential for growth due to being streamlined is high.

4. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution increases clandestine, hidden, illegal and street prostitution.
Legalized prostitution cannot become "illegal" and there is no need to hide it when there are no consequences to being a consenting adult prostitute. Street prostitution, however, is likely to rise since the threat of being busted is gone. But this can be regulated, i.e. one must carry a license or have a curfew in place.

5. Legalization of prostitution and decriminalization of the sex industry increases child prostitution.
Hardly. Child prostitution would still be illegal, and given the choice between a legal 18 year old and an illegal 13 year old most people would choose the former. As for illegal child prostitution, I'm not sure what the current statistics for that are, so I'll keep quiet.

6. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution does not protect the women in prostitution.
I believe legalizing prostitution actually protects the women/men more than leaving it illegal. If prostitution is legalized and regulations in place, the threat of disease, abuse and kidnapping would decrease.

7. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution increases the demand for prostitution. It boosts the motivation of men to buy women for sex in a much wider and more permissible range of socially acceptable settings.
Not only women can be prostitutes :wink: And buying someone for sex is a personal choice that people make for themselves. People don't start taking drugs because they live next door to a dealer.

8. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution does not promote women's health.
The health risks of prostitution are one of the big things that any prospective prostitute is going to have to come to terms with, no matter if prostitution is legalized or not. It doesn't promote it, but with mandatory condom use it doesn't seem like it would endanger it either.

9. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution does not enhance women's choice.
Huh? Choice for what?

10. Women in systems of prostitution do not want the sex industry legalized or decriminalized.
Quote these women, and I'll find quotes for more that do want it legalized.

[Faithless]

1. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution is a gift to pimps, traffickers and the sex industry.
While it could be considered a "gift" to the sex industry, I think it takes away power from pimps and traffickers because it puts more options into the hands of the person who is actually selling their body. A prostitute wouldn't have to depend on an abusive pimp or be sold through a trafficker because they could conceivably open up shop, so to speak, for themselves, and the people that "facilitate" the business would be more competative and regulated.
Yes and no.

The prostitute has options, but the only way they can feel safe is if their "work environment" is protected.

We might also have to consider the safety outside of work. If we are to believe how pimps work, they are masters at abuse and manipulation. A prostitute would need protection from the pimp outside of work, as well, especially if the pimp feels a need to teach his "commodity" a lesson about "going on her own".

*** *** ***

Details of the CATW arguments:

http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/ten-reasons.html

[BeTheReds]

Maybe they should only legalize brothel prostitution, and have the government tax it heavily.

[rice cracker]

Maybe they should only legalize brothel prostitution, and have the government tax it heavily.

If the government applies special taxes and other penalizing statutes on prostitution that would only cause more illegal activity in order to circumvent the new system and avoid paying these fees and taking the extra steps to become liscensed and keep that license.

[SunWuKong]

yes. too much regulations and taxes levied would just mean that people will create a "black market" of prostitution. if you're going to legalise it, you should also minimise regulations, otherwise it's pointless.

[nola]

It should be legalized and regulated for the health and safety of streetwalkers.

[Kennyb]

I would legalise at on one condition that they can only do that in a brothel, rather them walking around in the street trying to find someone. But don't they already have that happening in the states?

[nola]

I don't know if there are legal brothels in the States. There seem to be some. Streetwalkers is another term for prostitutes.

[rice cracker]

There are legal brothels in Nevada and I believe in New Mexico. I like the idea of eliminating street prostitutes and keeping sex workers in brothels, however, just because I wouldn't like seeing prostitutes along the street as I drive by doesn't mean these prostitutes shouldn't be allowed to, um, market themselves where they can attract the most business.

[Bhodi_Li]

I think giving a person an orgasm probably isn't the worst thing in the world

[rice cracker]

^ I agree, it's the mistreatment that sex workers have to deal with that's the problem. They are abused, shunned, disrespected and pariahs. My opinion is that prostitution has been around as long as civilization, and it's about time to have it dealt with since it's obviously not going away soon.

[ellsworth81]

That original article and the 10 reasons not to legalize prostitution was very un-persuasive.

Any other articles out there on this topic that actually expand on and support their assertions?

[nola]

Yeah, sex workers deserve respect. Prostitutes, strippers, dancers. Models should be included since they are selling their bodies, after all. And why are prostitutes penalized and not johns? Isn't that like penalizing dealers and not drug users?

[rice cracker]

Why is hardcore porn legal and not prostitution?

[537]

My opinion is that prostitution should be legalized provided there are some conditions met.

1. Prostitutes are regularly checked for STD's. This comes at no cost to the Prostitutes, and can be realized through a negligible surcharge attached to the fee. Birth Control is mandatory, and multiple forms might also be provided.

Customers who wish to partake must also have regular examinations in this regard, and have documented proof that they are free of disease/infection. Preferrably by the same medical institution the Prostitution Parks/Brothels/Whore Houses use.

2. Prostitutes must be citizens, and the company/employer must provide medical coverage and fall under the same tax laws as any other business establishment.

It is in my opinion that if given a venue, customers will subscribe to a legalized version of prostitution as opposed to buying from an unknown streetwalker.

3. Advertisements should be kept to a minimum and only in adult publications/web sites.

4. Prostitutes should be allowed to resign as well as reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. If a customer is refused service, it is up to the establishment whether or not he is allowed a different prostitute or is turned away altogether. For this reason, proper security must be provided within the establishment, including video cameras and metal detectors.

I think customers wouldn't mind extra security if it meant safer sex.



There definitely should be more conditions met, but I can't think of them all....

Personally I would never pay for sex. I am aware there are individuals that would, and in today's world, this business is an ugly one that is closely tied to drugs, crime, death and disease. To regulate this would, in my opinion, make it safer for the females that consider this their livelihood.

[applehead]

i'm not going to respect anyone who sells sex
for money. i have no respect for prostitutes, stripper or porn stars.
i don't see why i should.

i'm against legalization of prostitution.
and i have only one reason for that.
it's immoral.
and i don't want my children
to grow up in a country where selling your body for sex
is deemed okay by the government.

[younggiftedandblack]

i'm not going to respect anyone who sells sex
for money. i have no respect for prostitutes, stripper or porn stars.
i don't see why i should.

i'm against legalization of prostitution.
and i have only one reason for that.
it's immoral.
and i don't want my children
to grow up in a country where selling your body for sex
is deemed okay by the government.

Um but it is deemed ok to certain extent by the gov't. The porn industry and the legalized brothels.

I guess it all depends on how you "view" sex.

[Arex]

Why is hardcore porn legal and not prostitution?
I've often wondered the same. The only difference between the two, it seems, is that in one instance a camera is present. I suppose there's something to be said for a porn star's first amendment "free speech" rights, but that, to me, seems hardly a justification for legalizing one over the other.

RX

[tapestrybabe]

Why is hardcore porn legal and not prostitution?

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=7827

[kasia]

7. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution increases the demand for prostitution. It boosts the motivation of men to buy women for sex in a much wider and more permissible range of socially acceptable settings.

i think the argument against legalization that i would most agree with would be this. it's no secret that the vast majority of prostitutes are women. doesn't this say something about the power structure in our society? or are we assuming that it somehow is a coincidence?

[younggiftedandblack]

i think the argument against legalization that i would most agree with would be this. it's no secret that the vast majority of prostitutes are women. doesn't this say something about the power structure in our society? or are we assuming that it somehow is a coincidence?

I agree with that #7 point. BUT if you legalize it I think that would give more power to the women who are in that industry.

[kasia]

I agree with that #7 point. BUT if you legalize it I think that would give more power to the women who are in that industry.

how? and how would it change the fact that there will still be more women than men in the industry?

[younggiftedandblack]

how? and how would it change the fact that there will still be more women than men in the industry?

Well I doubt it would change the ratio of men to women in the industry.

As far giving them more power. I've been to many countries where it is legal or at the least looked the other way by the gov't. The women in the industry there seem to have more control and say so over what happens to them.

I may be interpreting your question wrong however.

[kasia]

Well I doubt it would change the ratio of men to women in the industry.

As far giving them more power. I've been to many countries where it is legal or at the least looked the other way by the gov't. The women in the industry there seem to have more control and say so over what happens to them.

I may be interpreting your question wrong however.

yes, we are arguing different issues. i do agree that it could give women who are already in the industry more power, in that they won't be controlled by pimps, etc. i think this is what you are saying.

my point is that the industry would still be a testament to gender inequality. and legalizing something is often a moral statment. legalizing prostitution, then, would be akin to saying that this inequality is acceptable.

also - don't get me wrong, i'm not judging the women in the industry. i've hung out with prostitutes & many are just normal people. i'm also not so much against selling one's body. i respect my own too much to do that, but different people have different values, and i can respect that. what i don't agree with is the fact that our society is such the industry is comprised of mostly women.

[younggiftedandblack]

I think I see now what you are talking about.

I think the simple reason that there are more women involved then men, is the fact that more men are willing to pay for sex. I'm not so sure if it says more about our society in general or human nature.

[nola]

I'm against selling one's body (can we include actresses in addition to models in this group?) but think legalization would make it healthier and safer for the women.

[rice cracker]

Ok...I'm having a hard time reconciling actresses and models to hookers. Using your image to sell clothing or promote movies is not the same has giving a john a $15 blowjob in an alley.

[nola]

I came up with this myself. It is little stretched:

Sex workers sell their bodies.

Models sell their bodies and faces.

Actresses get work dependent on their bodies and faces unless it's for documentaries or something like that.

[Arex]

i think the argument against legalization that i would most agree with would be this. it's no secret that the vast majority of prostitutes are women. doesn't this say something about the power structure in our society? or are we assuming that it somehow is a coincidence?
I always thought it had more to do with the fact that men are horny bastards and most women don't have to resort to paying someone to get laid. :confused: I still stand by the belief that more men than women would be willing to have sex, for free, with a random stranger that propositioned them at a bar or club. It's an issue of supply and demand. And, maybe I'm not understanding, but how is this an argument against the legalization of prostitution? Because more women will end up working in the industry? Isn't that an argument for legalization? I would think that if women were in power, given that more women work in the industry, it would be legalized by virtue of the fact that it legitimizes an industry that has been, and will always be, dominated by women.

RX

[rice cracker]

I came up with this myself. It is little stretched:

Sex workers sell their bodies.

Models sell their bodies and faces.

Actresses get work dependent on their bodies and faces unless it's for documentaries or something like that.

Actresses and models sell images of their body, not their physical body.

[nola]

Very true.

[rice cracker]

Very true.

So...how is that like prostitution?

Main Entry: 1pros·ti·tute
Pronunciation: 'präs-t&-"tüt, -"tyüt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -tut·ed; -tut·ing
Etymology: Latin prostitutus, past participle of prostituere, from pro- before + statuere to station -- more at PRO-, STATUTE
1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money
2 : to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes : DEBASE <prostitute one's talents>

[Green_Circle]

I think they should legalize prostitution. I'd like to discuss one particular aspect. That is (hetero)male prostitutes. Legally selling their services to women who can call and meet for the purposes of whatever. This aspect has been sorely lacking since forever except with extremely underground and prohibitively expensive call boys.
Women have urges also. It needn't necessarily be old, ugly, infirm or unable to get a date kind of woman either.
Once it catches on and becomes destigmatized, I'm sure that many women will flock to and enjoy these services. Sometimes women just want a guy for an hour or so and then poof, he's gone. In many phases of a woman's life at a given particular juncture, she could probably use some anonymous cuddling and hugging or company of a man and not necessarily for a long term relationship(LTR). Afterward, she could go about her regular. Would that be empowering?

[Chester]

I think they should legalize prostitution.
How old are you? Do you have prostitute children? Do you have any prostitutes as your nieces or nephews? Good fences make good neighbors and they shall reap what they've sown with the whirlwind. Maybe some day you'll understand.

[Yeahman]

I wouldn't want my children to be porn stars or strippers either but should we ban them too?
But this is less of a question of morals but one of rights. A woman should have the right to do with her body as she pleases include what some people would regard as immoral.

[kasia]

I think they should legalize prostitution. I'd like to discuss one particular aspect. That is (hetero)male prostitutes. Legally selling their services to women who can call and meet for the purposes of whatever. This aspect has been sorely lacking since forever except with extremely underground and prohibitively expensive call boys.
Women have urges also. It needn't necessarily be old, ugly, infirm or unable to get a date kind of woman either.
Once it catches on and becomes destigmatized, I'm sure that many women will flock to and enjoy these services. Sometimes women just want a guy for an hour or so and then poof, he's gone. In many phases of a woman's life at a given particular juncture, she could probably use some anonymous cuddling and hugging or company of a man and not necessarily for a long term relationship(LTR). Afterward, she could go about her regular. Would that be empowering?

interesting point. i did say, in a previous post, that legalization of something is a moral statement. and there is a lot of stigma attached to women seeking prostitutes. however, can we say that the stigma stems from the fact that prostitution is illegal? or rather that it is just improper, by our societal standards, for women to desire sex that much?

[Chester]

or rather that it is just improper, by our societal standards, for women to desire sex that much?
I would say this has a lot more to do with the stigma than the illegality. After all, isn't there a stigma attached to all women who work in the sex industry (strippers, porn actresses/models, etc.), regardless of whether or not their segment of the industry is illegal?

I suppose, at best, legalization of prostitution would remove some of the stigma, but even if it reduced it all the way down to what strippers are saddled with...is that really that much of an improvement?

[Faithless]

Ways in which prostitution can be legalized (or decriminalized):


http://www.iusw.org/policy/index.html
http://www.bayswan.org/decrim.html

[VV o n g B a]

I would say this has a lot more to do with the stigma than the illegality. After all, isn't there a stigma attached to all women who work in the sex industry (strippers, porn actresses/models, etc.), regardless of whether or not their segment of the industry is illegal?
there's stigma attached to pretty much any female who has lots o' sex, not just those in the sex industry.

i mean, how many guys/girls have used the put down of "slut" or "ho"?

[Emperor_Mike]

From a health and safety standpoint, I'd support full legalisation if it involves regulation as well. I'd wager that prostitution has been around since the dawn of humanity as Australopithecus Africanus women/men or Neanderthal women/men discovered that passing themselves off as goods to be hired in return for much needed supplies and what not was a good idea. Like a few of you have already mentioned, we are dealing with consensual acts - although the circumstances leading up to consent and the motives behind it are different matters. Was the consent to sexual relations with a stranger *actual* consent? Or was it consent brought on by exigent circumstances such as needing money to pay off a debt or to cure a sick friend, child, or other family member? But I digress.

The reason why I included the need for regulation is because of the shocking numbers of prostitutes who have disappeared only to be found murdered. These women and men who live on the periphery of society rarely get noticed when they vanish for days or weeks on end and no one cares if one of them turns up dead in the gutter. No doubt some of you are already aware of the White Chapel Murders (i.e. Jack the Ripper) and some may even be following the Robert Pickton case in British Columbia involving a Port Coquitlam pig farmer who allegedly murdered over twenty prostitutes.

It should be a pressing social need to preserve the lives of these sex workers, in spite of the fact that many of us may find their trade to be morally reprehensible. After all, a life is a life and if we are to believe that there is inherent good in us all, we should strive to ensure that these men and women, in pursuing their livelihoods, are kept as safe as possible.

[Green_Circle]

I'm thinking that women would have a whole different world in which to live. They can experience a lot of the freedoms from entanglements, searching to validate or for a significant other, there's a slew of things that await. And don't forget, there's the no strings quickie which she can have as often as she wants without anyone ever having to know the better.
She could hire a man to go shopping with her or to the movies, dinner, parties, you name it as men do all of the above so shouldn't it now be time for women. Lots of times you see old geezers with these young barely legal babes. Many times they're for hire.
It'd be great for women from all walks, in all different situations to have the comfort and convenience also of picking up their phone to order out. Except it's with a real live human.

[Emperor_Mike]

I'm thinking that women would have a whole different world in which to live. They can experience a lot of the freedoms from entanglements, searching to validate or for a significant other, there's a slew of things that await. And don't forget, there's the no strings quickie which she can have as often as she wants without anyone ever having to know the better.
She could hire a man to go shopping with her or to the movies, dinner, parties, you name it as men do all of the above so shouldn't it now be time for women. Lots of times you see old geezers with these young barely legal babes. Many times they're for hire.
It'd be great for women from all walks, in all different situations to have the comfort and convenience also of picking up their phone to order out. Except it's with a real live human.

That seems like a rather odd thing to write. Can you envisage the female members of your family participating in such activities if prostitution is legalised for all the wrong reasons? It would certainly give new meaning to the phrase "Your mother is a whore" because you can actually say "Yes, she is a whore but she enjoys a life free from entanglements and may have sex whenever and where-ever she feels like." I can't say that I agree with your take on this issue (respectability being a big point in my book) but if such a social environment finds favour with you, then who am I to judge?

[Faithless]

The reason why I included the need for regulation is because of the shocking numbers of prostitutes who have disappeared only to be found murdered. These women and men who live on the periphery of society rarely get noticed when they vanish for days or weeks on end and no one cares if one of them turns up dead in the gutter. No doubt some of you are already aware of the White Chapel Murders (i.e. Jack the Ripper) and some may even be following the Robert Pickton case in British Columbia involving a Port Coquitlam pig farmer who allegedly murdered over twenty prostitutes.
In this regard, what sort of regulation would you propose?

Sounds like you are talking about safety.

[Emperor_Mike]

In this regard, what sort of regulation would you propose?

Sounds like you are talking about safety.

Safety is the biggest key. I'm not exactly sure what it would entail, but something as simple as "designated" locations for business transactions would suffice, regular clinics as they have now for checkups and such, etc. It's a challenge and I'm just putting out suggestions for the "big picture." I don't think I'm in any position to write a goverment white paper on the matter just yet. :wink:

[applehead]

I came up with this myself. It is little stretched:

Sex workers sell their bodies.

Models sell their bodies and faces.

Actresses get work dependent on their bodies and faces unless it's for documentaries or something like that.

sex workers sell sex and their bodies.

I'm thinking that women would have a whole different world in which to live. They can experience a lot of the freedoms from entanglements, searching to validate or for a significant other, there's a slew of things that await. And don't forget, there's the no strings quickie which she can have as often as she wants without anyone ever having to know the better.
She could hire a man to go shopping with her or to the movies, dinner, parties, you name it as men do all of the above so shouldn't it now be time for women. Lots of times you see old geezers with these young barely legal babes. Many times they're for hire.
It'd be great for women from all walks, in all different situations to have the comfort and convenience also of picking up their phone to order out. Except it's with a real live human.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Green_Circle]

That seems like a rather odd thing to write. Can you envisage the female members of your family participating in such activities if prostitution is legalised for all the wrong reasons? It would certainly give new meaning to the phrase "Your mother is a whore" because you can actually say "Yes, she is a whore but she enjoys a life free from entanglements and may have sex whenever and where-ever she feels like." I can't say that I agree with your take on this issue (respectability being a big point in my book) but if such a social environment finds favour with you, then who am I to judge?


Quite the contrary. Women should be able to have access to pro's just as men do. The fact that they don't is because they've been shackled by old world thinking. Free them of their bondage.
Prostitutes aren't all about sex. They serve very valuable functions. Incidentally, calling people "whores" isn't very politically correct is it?
Men don't always go to them just for sex. Sometimes men just want company or someone to be with or do things with. Sometimes a prostitute can fill a void, albeit temporarily. Other times they can help you get over a disastrous failed relationship. Who can count the ways?
I'm saying that they perform a valuable service in terms of mental health alone. For this reason, women should also have access to prostitutes.

[applehead]

Quite the contrary. Women should be able to have access to pro's just as men do. The fact that they don't is because they've been shackled by old world thinking. Free them of their bondage.
Prostitutes aren't all about sex. They serve very valuable functions. Incidentally, calling people "whores" isn't very politically correct is it?
Men don't always go to them just for sex. Sometimes men just want company or someone to be with or do things with. Sometimes a prostitute can fill a void, albeit temporarily. Other times they can help you get over a disastrous failed relationship. Who can count the ways?
I'm saying that they perform a valuable service in terms of mental health alone. For this reason, women should also have access to prostitutes.

women don't need prostitutes for those reasons.
we have friends.

[kasia]

women don't need prostitutes for those reasons.
we have friends.

well, i don't think we should write off his idea without consideration. a lot of women don't seek male prostitutes because of the stigma - not because of who may find out, but more of because how they would perceive themselves afterwards. <-- and all of that is a result of what society has taught us with regards to gender roles.

[Emperor_Mike]

Quite the contrary. Women should be able to have access to pro's just as men do. The fact that they don't is because they've been shackled by old world thinking. Free them of their bondage.
Prostitutes aren't all about sex. They serve very valuable functions. Incidentally, calling people "whores" isn't very politically correct is it?
Men don't always go to them just for sex. Sometimes men just want company or someone to be with or do things with. Sometimes a prostitute can fill a void, albeit temporarily. Other times they can help you get over a disastrous failed relationship. Who can count the ways?
I'm saying that they perform a valuable service in terms of mental health alone. For this reason, women should also have access to prostitutes.

Perhaps I misconstrued your statement due to faulty wording. In any case, if it's equality you're speaking of then yes, it would make sense to provide women with an option to hire male prostitutes so long as the reasons for legalising the trade are justifiable and not purely based on convenience for lonely men and women.

[VV o n g B a]

well, i don't think we should write off his idea without consideration. a lot of women don't seek male prostitutes because of the stigma - not because of who may find out, but more of because how they would perceive themselves afterwards. <-- and all of that is a result of what society has taught us with regards to gender roles.
we there's also another reason they don't seek male prostitutes... they're women! if they want a one night stand, many women could simply walk into a bar and wait to get hit on. why pay money when there are guys who will pay for your drinks AND get u off? :wink:

[applehead]

well, i don't think we should write off his idea without consideration. a lot of women don't seek male prostitutes because of the stigma - not because of who may find out, but more of because how they would perceive themselves afterwards. <-- and all of that is a result of what society has taught us with regards to gender roles.

really?
i would have thought that... it's just human nature.
to perceive yourself in a negative light
after seeking a prostitute.
after all, you just shared intimate physical
relations with someone you don't have any feelings
for and paid them money for it.
i mean. you have to feel shitty afterwards, no?
kind of like a, one night stand.

of course... after doing it a couple of times
it won't bother you as much...

[VV o n g B a]

really?
i would have thought that... it's just human nature.
to perceive yourself in a negative light
after seeking a prostitute.
after all, you just shared intimate physical
relations with someone you don't have any feelings
for and paid them money for it.
i mean. you have to feel shitty afterwards, no?
kind of like a, one night stand.

of course... after doing it a couple of times
it won't bother you as much...
i believe she's asking why guys apparently don't feel the same thing.

[Faithless]

Safety is the biggest key. I'm not exactly sure what it would entail, but something as simple as "designated" locations for business transactions would suffice, regular clinics as they have now for checkups and such, etc. It's a challenge and I'm just putting out suggestions for the "big picture." I don't think I'm in any position to write a goverment white paper on the matter just yet. :wink:
You don't need to. That would be like re-inventing the wheel. :rolleyes:

There's existing sources out there, and it would be inasmuchas, understanding them and promoting them in a comprehensive plan to decriminalize.

From BAYSWAN:
REGULATIONS


SCOPE OF REGULATIONS

8.

(1) Without limiting the generality of Part 2, section 7 (2), the regulations may -

(a) require the owner and operator of a brothel or escort agency, or a prostitute, to comply with a code of practice which shall include provisions about -


(i) cleanliness;
(ii)hygiene standards for swimming pools. spa baths and sexual aids; ;
(iii)the provision, use and laundering of towels and other items of linen;
(iv)the provision of and hygiene standards for showers. washing and toilet facilities;
(v)the provision and disposal of prophylactics;
(vi)the provision, to prostitutes and to clients, of information relating to sexually transmitted diseases ;
(vii)any other matter relating to the health and safety of prostitutes and of clients;

(b) make provision in relation to -
(i) the inspection of brothels and escort agencies for the purpose of ensuring compliance with this Act;
(ii) the provision of information to the Registrar from time to time by the owner of a brothel or escort agency in accordance with conditions of confidentiality in Part 4, section 10 ( 3) & (4);
(iii) the advertising of commercial sexual services.

But I think that something should be done with the pimps, as well.

[applehead]

i believe she's asking why guys apparently don't feel the same thing.

well. i'm saying they do.
at first.

[Emperor_Mike]

You don't need to. That would be like re-inventing the wheel. :rolleyes:

There's existing sources out there, and it would be inasmuchas, understanding them and promoting them in a comprehensive plan to decriminalize.

From BAYSWAN:
REGULATIONS


SCOPE OF REGULATIONS

8.

(1) Without limiting the generality of Part 2, section 7 (2), the regulations may -

(a) require the owner and operator of a brothel or escort agency, or a prostitute, to comply with a code of practice which shall include provisions about -


(i) cleanliness;
(ii)hygiene standards for swimming pools. spa baths and sexual aids; ;
(iii)the provision, use and laundering of towels and other items of linen;
(iv)the provision of and hygiene standards for showers. washing and toilet facilities;
(v)the provision and disposal of prophylactics;
(vi)the provision, to prostitutes and to clients, of information relating to sexually transmitted diseases ;
(vii)any other matter relating to the health and safety of prostitutes and of clients;

(b) make provision in relation to -
(i) the inspection of brothels and escort agencies for the purpose of ensuring compliance with this Act;
(ii) the provision of information to the Registrar from time to time by the owner of a brothel or escort agency in accordance with conditions of confidentiality in Part 4, section 10 ( 3) & (4);
(iii) the advertising of commercial sexual services.

But I think that something should be done with the pimps, as well.


This Act seems to regulate the place where transactions take place. It doesn't seem to cover situations where prostitutes engage in their trade outside of designated facilities, which logically is where the greatest likelihood of them getting kidnapped and murder lies. The issue is a complicated one, I'll give you that. There's a fine line between legalising and condoning the trade and turning the local government into a purveyor and full time regulator of sexual services.

[Faithless]

This Act seems to regulate the place where transactions take place. It doesn't seem to cover situations where prostitutes engage in their trade outside of designated facilities, which logically is where the greatest likelihood of them getting kidnapped and murder lies. The issue is a complicated one, I'll give you that. There's a fine line between legalising and condoning the trade and turning the local government into a purveyor and full time regulator of sexual services.
I'm not catching your drift.

Are you talking about having a bodyguard where the transaction is taking place?

[younggiftedandblack]

really?
i would have thought that... it's just human nature.
to perceive yourself in a negative light
after seeking a prostitute.
after all, you just shared intimate physical
relations with someone you don't have any feelings
for and paid them money for it.
i mean. you have to feel shitty afterwards, no?
kind of like a, one night stand.

of course... after doing it a couple of times
it won't bother you as much...

Like I said before it all depends on how you view sex and how deep your religious beliefs go.

I don't think it's soo much the sex part that have people up in arms over prostitution, but the other vices that come along with it.

[haku]

well. i'm saying they do.
at first.

We do. And paranoid, etc, as well. I don't know any guys where this feeling wears off. I think you'd have to be cold/aloof/out of touch/masochistic or something to get off without feelings. But those guys are out there.

Legalizing prostitution....well, it happens anyway, I think it would create safer work conditions for the prostitutes and more choices for them as well.

It's pretty sad, though, walking down streets in SF and seeing several "Oriental" spa's. Legalizing would only make this worse, and then what would we say about the "exoticization" of asians, etc.

[applehead]

Like I said before it all depends on how you view sex and how deep your religious beliefs go.

I don't think it's soo much the sex part that have people up in arms over prostitution, but the other vices that come along with it.

yes.i think me being raised as roman catholic
have so much to do with my views on sex.

[Emperor_Mike]

I'm not catching your drift.

Are you talking about having a bodyguard where the transaction is taking place?

No, and I'm not entirely sure what's to be done. Designated safe houses akin to a "Prostitute Motel" that's supervised? Clearly this is beyond my scope and I don't have any illusions that I can come up with any sort of viable solution to a problem of this class. I can give general concepts, but it'll be up to some enterprising individual to put it into effect.

[nola]

Models and actresses sell their bodies, looks and sexual attractiveness.

They are definately not prostitutes. It's just a metaphor I guess.

[Emperor_Mike]

Models and actresses sell their bodies, looks and sexual attractiveness.

They are definately not prostitutes. It's just a metaphor I guess.

Someone else mentioned that. However, I'm not sure if actresses and models are willing to sell their bodies so willingly to any perfect stranger. To people who can advance their career perhaps, but not to any old Average Joe or Jane.

Anyway, my comment is completely off topic, but all the same you have a good point.

[Arex]

Models and actresses sell their bodies, looks and sexual attractiveness.

They are definately not prostitutes. It's just a metaphor I guess.
I understand your point and I think it's more than just a metaphor. While models and actresses are not prostitutes, many of them are definitely selling their sexuality, albeit in a hands-off form.

Taking it a step further, in reality, we're all selling some aspect(s) of ourselves in our daily work lives. A model sells his face or body. A masseuse sells his or her hand skills. A voice actor or singer sells his voice. A construction worker sells his physical labor. A mechanic sells his mechanical expertise. Lawyers, consultants, accountants, etc., sell their particular analytical and reasoning skills. While we are all multi-dimensional people, as members of the workforce, we are all being used by others solely for one or two very limited skills (or sets of skills) or traits we may possess. Of course, society has no qualms about this. Why then should the standard be any different just because a man or woman wants to sell his or her sexual services?

RX

[Green_Circle]

we there's also another reason they don't seek male prostitutes... they're women! if they want a one night stand, many women could simply walk into a bar and wait to get hit on. why pay money when there are guys who will pay for your drinks AND get u off? :wink:

Well it's like this; there's a whole bunch of guys that pay the prostitute not to stay but to leave. Does that make sense?
Perhaps you peeps cannot visualize the need in your own capacity but there's a large segment that could certainly utilize these services.
Charlie Sheen has paid thousands for pro's. You telling me he can't get chix? So therefore he has to pay big money to get it 'coz he's a loser? Uh huh.

There's also lots of guys and prolly gals too, who just want a quickie and that's it for now. Roll over and get to sleep. You've all heard that one before. Sound like someone's getting used just for sex? Would a prostitute complain about it? No, because you paid, got what you wanted and now she's gone.

The girl can go into a bar and get it easy, sure, if she looks halfway unlike Quasimodo, right? Believe me some girls want to pick up the phone and get a quickie also. No strings and with a total stranger too. Trust me on this one.

[nola]

Someone else mentioned that. However, I'm not sure if actresses and models are willing to sell their bodies so willingly to any perfect stranger. To people who can advance their career perhaps, but not to any old Average Joe or Jane.

Anyway, my comment is completely off topic, but all the same you have a good point.


They are selling their bodies, looks and sexual attractiveness to faceless strangers who watch their movies or see their ads.

[applehead]

Well it's like this; there's a whole bunch of guys that pay the prostitute not to stay but to leave. Does that make sense?
Perhaps you peeps cannot visualize the need in your own capacity but there's a large segment that could certainly utilize these services.
Charlie Sheen has paid thousands for pro's. You telling me he can't get chix? So therefore he has to pay big money to get it 'coz he's a loser? Uh huh.

There's also lots of guys and prolly gals too, who just want a quickie and that's it for now. Roll over and get to sleep. You've all heard that one before. Sound like someone's getting used just for sex? Would a prostitute complain about it? No, because you paid, got what you wanted and now she's gone.

The girl can go into a bar and get it easy, sure, if she looks halfway unlike Quasimodo, right? Believe me some girls want to pick up the phone and get a quickie also. No strings and with a total stranger too. Trust me on this one.

hey if someone wants a quickie from a prostitute.
that's fine.
if that's what you're looking for... hey, you're the one
taking the risks.
i don't think anyone is judging the a person who
seeks sex for hire...
we're debating on wheter it should be legal or not.

[tapestrybabe]

Once it catches on and becomes destigmatized, I'm sure that many women will flock to and enjoy these services. Sometimes women just want a guy for an hour or so and then poof, he's gone. In many phases of a woman's life at a given particular juncture, she could probably use some anonymous cuddling and hugging or company of a man and not necessarily for a long term relationship(LTR). Afterward, she could go about her regular. Would that be empowering?

this is an interesting twist on things...
when it comes to viewing it the OTHEr way around...
and i would say yeah... it kinda is empowering...

when it comes to sex and desire...
you actually speak of my own experience...
the difference is... i never felt a need to have to pay...
since its easy for females to get it for free...
but yeah... the idea is still there...
hooking up with guys
for an hour or so... a quickie...
due to out of desire...
knowing i can go back home afterwards...
and go about my regular business...

and if the only reason i ended up feeling negative
about it all... was how i ended up perceiving myself...
but when i dig deep down inside myself...
when i look back of all my experiences...
they're experiences... i currently openly talk about...
just cuz... i dont see my own sexuality...
my own desires, my experiences i've encountered...
as something to look down upon...

but than again... i'm also a manic depressive...
which i believe has prolly played a huge role when it comes to my own heightened, increased, sexual drive... and my unordinary experiences when it comes to the numerous men that i've been with... but yeah... it makes me question sometimes... when it comes to regular prostitutes... how many of them... may also suffer a mental illness too... not to stigmatize, label them... but its a thought that just crossed my mind...

but yeah, this situation puts an interesting twist on things...
prostitution being seen the OTher way around...

[BeTheReds]

this is an interesting twist on things...
when it comes to viewing it the OTHEr way around...
and i would say yeah... it kinda is empowering...

when it comes to sex and desire...
you actually speak of my own experience...
the difference is... i never felt a need to have to pay...
since its easy for females to get it for free...
but yeah... the idea is still there...
hooking up with guys
for an hour or so... a quickie...
due to out of desire...
knowing i can go back home afterwards...
and go about my regular business...

and if the only reason i ended up feeling negative
about it all... was how i ended up perceiving myself...
but when i dig deep down inside myself...
when i look back of all my experiences...
they're experiences... i currently openly talk about...
just cuz... i dont see my own sexuality...
my own desires, my experiences i've encountered...
as something to look down upon...

but than again... i'm also a manic depressive...
which i believe has prolly played a huge role when it comes to my own heightened, increased, sexual drive... and my unordinary experiences when it comes to the numerous men that i've been with... but yeah... and it makes me question sometimes... when it comes to regular prostitutes... how many of them... may also suffer a mental illness too... not to stigmatize, label them... but its just a thought that crossed my mind...

but yeah, this situation puts an interesting twist on things...
prostitution being seen the OTher way around...

Shoot me please!

Lol.

Is it really easier for women to get it whenever they want to? Don't women also have to sometimes settle?

[mrazntre]

This is one of those grey area things because 1) you don't hurt society by doing so 2) you don't improve society by doing so.

but at least you get your nut off.

I think that the main problem with prostitution is that it is related to pimps and drugs.

[Green_Circle]

Tapestry Babe,

I've seen a couple of your posts alluding to these encounters. I am always fascinated by these stories. You must share them sometime in a PM?

[nola]

QUOTE (TB): and my unordinary experiences when it comes to the numerous men that i've been with... but yeah... it makes me question sometimes... when it comes to regular prostitutes... how many of them... may also suffer a mental illness too... not to stigmatize, label them...


But you're a virgin right?

QUOTE (GC): I am always fascinated by these stories. You must share them sometime in a PM?


Bleah.

[tapestrybabe]

QUOTE (TB): and my unordinary experiences when it comes to the numerous men that i've been with... but yeah... it makes me question sometimes... when it comes to regular prostitutes... how many of them... may also suffer a mental illness too... not to stigmatize, label them...



But you're a virgin right?

you can still have sexual encounters...
and get off from it...
without resorting to intercourse...

: I am always fascinated by these stories. You must share them sometime in a PM?

Bleah.

i agree... bleah...

[VV o n g B a]

Well it's like this; there's a whole bunch of guys that pay the prostitute not to stay but to leave. Does that make sense?
Perhaps you peeps cannot visualize the need in your own capacity but there's a large segment that could certainly utilize these services.
Charlie Sheen has paid thousands for pro's. You telling me he can't get chix? So therefore he has to pay big money to get it 'coz he's a loser? Uh huh.

There's also lots of guys and prolly gals too, who just want a quickie and that's it for now. Roll over and get to sleep. You've all heard that one before. Sound like someone's getting used just for sex? Would a prostitute complain about it? No, because you paid, got what you wanted and now she's gone.

The girl can go into a bar and get it easy, sure, if she looks halfway unlike Quasimodo, right? Believe me some girls want to pick up the phone and get a quickie also. No strings and with a total stranger too. Trust me on this one.
my earlier post was tongue-in-cheek. but as tapestrybabe said, it's not wholly off the mark.

[Green_Circle]

my earlier post was tongue-in-cheek. but as tapestrybabe said, it's not wholly off the mark.

On the other hand, I read an article about 'John' school here in San Fran, dealing with and educating Johns about the exploitation and oppression of women.
It stated how most of the typical streetwalkers (lowest rung in the hooker hierarchy) hate what they do and have almost all been the victims of sexual abuse as children. Their feelings of worthlessness translates into walking the streets for the cheapest amount of money and exposure to the most danger.

[nola]

Most prostitutes were sexually abused.

[Green_Circle]

Most prostitutes were sexually abused.

Have you been reading up on this?
Then again, the higher echelons of hookerdom have hot young women who actually enjoy their 'careers' as lucrative and empowering according to them. Many claim that they cannot make a fraction of what they earn in such a short amount of time. And this brings into play that a lot of them get paid well for non sexual services like shopping, going to dinner, the symphony, things along those lines. A non sexual escort who provides company and eye candy for the client.

[kitty]

Most prostitutes were sexually abused.

I'd like to see a statistic on this...

[nola]

Child Abuse Statistics from http://www.pokrov.org/aboutabuse/aboutabuse.html#Statistics.

There are 30 abuse and neglect cases for every 1000 people

Average age of a child victim is 7 years of age.

In 1985 an estimated 113,000 children were reported with sexual maltreatments.

Experts estimate that 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 8 boys under the age of 18 will be involved in some form of forced sexual experience with an adult.

80% of prison inmates have been abused as children

More than 80% of all prostitutes and hustlers were sexually abused as children

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Experts estimate that 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 8 boys under the age of 18 will be involved in some form of forced sexual experience with an adult.


Man that's horrible :frown:

[nola]

Have you been reading up on this?
Then again, the higher echelons of hookerdom have hot young women who actually enjoy their 'careers' as lucrative and empowering according to them. Many claim that they cannot make a fraction of what they earn in such a short amount of time. And this brings into play that a lot of them get paid well for non sexual services like shopping, going to dinner, the symphony, things along those lines. A non sexual escort who provides company and eye candy for the client.


I'm sure money is the best part for those stripping for college.

[VV o n g B a]

Man that's horrible :frown:
all those stats are horrible. and good lord, 80% of prostitutes were abused? thats pretty insane. i think that statistic alone has changed my perspective on this. i thought about the economics and not the psyche. i'm used to thinking of prostitution as a necessary but distasteful part of society. but if the abuse stopped, would most prostitution disappear?

thats pretty crazy. but then again, if there were fewer prostitutes, wouldn't there be an increase in rapes and abuse which would only continue the cycle? wow... food for thought.

[Green_Circle]

Damm, quite horrifying, Nola. Isn't it also shocking how more and more peeps, male and female are coming forward with their own personal horror stories. From attacks that occurred years ago? So many from clergy; men of the cloth, of God. If they can't be trusted, who can?

[Chester]

i'm used to thinking of prostitution as a necessary but distasteful part of society.
I wouldn't characterize it as "necessary," but, instead, "inevitable."

And I wouldn't say it's necessarily distasteful, though that's what it ends up being, inevitably.

[nola]

We must end oppression of men, women, children in all its forms. It all comes together and when women and men are less oppressed there will be alot more loving going on.

[kitty]

maybe it's the tiny little statistician in me (who normally doesn't come out much) but I'm a little skeptical. It mentions it was a study done by the American Humane Association (I think?)... but I wonder how they conducted the study.

It seems like, given the number of prostitutes there are, that's an awful lot of children being sexually abused.

Anyways, I wonder though, is it really oppressive or somewhat empowering?

[nola]

That number is too high but I've always read that most prostitutes (50% or more) were sexually abused.

It's probably oppressive and empowering. I know guys who said it's unfair they can't sell their bodies for cash too. I've had a few friends offer to be live-in boytoys and benefactees.

[nola]

Anyways, it all comes down to money.

These three guys were poor students. Escorts are empowered by making money. I suppose escorting rich men to fancy dinners and functions can be fun.

[haku]

ONE in THREE girls will be sexually molested by an adult? There's no way that's true.

I've read articles about 1 in 4 girls and about 1 in 5 boys having SOME form of abuse, including physical abuse (non-sexual). That seems more on target to me. I mean it is a huge problem, but if it was 1 in 3 getting sexually abused, there would be a much bigger outcry than say, breast cancer.

Everything is so hypersexualized in the West. If prostitution were legal, would that get worse, or better, or no effect at all?

Mental illness is associated with sexuality in all the ways you might imagine. Bipolar (manic depressive) people get hypersexual in the manic phase, there are sexually compulsive people, personality disorders which leave people vulnerable to being "preyed" upon sexually. A very large percentage of Borderline Personality Disorder people (e.g. Girl Interrupted) were sexually abused .

[nola]

One out of three is the standard number and what I've always heard. I didn't believe the breast cancer rate (one out of seven) when it came out either. I just googled "sexual abuse statistics" and got this:

38% of girls are sexually abused before the age of 18. 16% of boys are sexually abused before the age of 18.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:ZH2fS6kIs18J:allahsway.com/msg/statistics2.htm+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 14.
1 in 6 boys is sexually abused before the age of 16.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:74C8_vABs-oJ:www.darkness2light.org/KnowAbout/statistics.shtml+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

"...about 1 in 4 women in North America were molested in childhood."

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:Wmvq_X6cPTkJ:www.therapistfinder.ne t/Child-Abuse/Child-Abuse-Statistics.html+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

1 in 4 girls and at least 1 in 10 boys is sexually abused in some way by the age of 18.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:uCERI3LornoJ:www.safechild.org/childabuse1.htm+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Approximately 1 out of 3 girls and 1 out of 5 boys will be sexually abused before the age of 18.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:gTu9_maA7fIJ:www.goodtouchbadtouch. com/abuse_facts.html+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[Arex]

Approximately 1 out of 3 girls and 1 out of 5 boys will be sexually abused before the age of 18.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:gTu9_maA7fIJ:www.goodtouchbadtouch. com/abuse_facts.html+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
If that number is to be believed, that's a very scary statistic. I'm sure that sexual abuse isn't something that's normally broadcast, even amongst friends, but I personally know of only one person in my circle of friends who's ever acknowledged being sexually abused. In this case, it was a female friend of mine that had been raped as an undergrad. I wonder if the incidence of sexual abuse varies by racial and/or socioeconomic demographic? If so, then if my particular demographic (upper middle class, suburban, Asian) has a lower incidence of sexual abuse, that means the number's got to be higher in others. Higher than 1 in 3 and 1 in 5! (though I suppose this demographic represents a small percentage of the total population)

But back on topic, now that we know the vast majority of prostitutes were sexually abused, does this fact change anyone's views on whether or not prostitution should be legalized?

aReX

[mrazntre]

Wait a second. To shed some light on the minority, how come they turned into prostitutes?

[xdlin22]

I think legalizing prostitution would be great for the economy! i mean fat ugly men can have sex with even uglier girls!!!!

[mrazntre]

Anyways, it all comes down to money.

These three guys were poor students. Escorts are empowered by making money. I suppose escorting rich men to fancy dinners and functions can be fun.

*barf*

[Kennyb]

Wait a second. To shed some light on the minority, how come they turned into prostitutes?

Wasn't it due to religious reason, or something?? :confused: I remember hearing stories from the bible about it when I was at junior school.

[nola]

*barf*

I wouldn't do it either.

[tapestrybabe]

But back on topic, now that we know the vast majority of prostitutes were sexually abused, does this fact change anyone's views on whether or not prostitution should be legalized?

NO, it doesnt change my views...
rape, sexual abuse, etc... thats all done out of force...
prostitution... whether ppl see it as a form of oppression...
its STILL an act thats done out of CHOICE...
you wanna see real empowerment of women...
how about not keep the sexually abused silent anymore...
how about women speaking up about their experiences...
not hiding anymore behind their shame...
how about women taking back their own dignity...
and taking charge of their own lives...

ppl wanna speak about empowerment, ending oppression...
ppl wanna lecture about how there are way more women
in the prostitution industry...
that legalizing prostitution would be a kin
to saying that inequality is acceptable...

well than... i think its a matter of US females
coming together and taking control...
choosing our own course of actions...
of what we think is best for ourselves...
thats more important...
without having to rely on any law...
telling us whats acceptable or not acceptable

[mrazntre]

I think that being sexually abused and being thrown into the throes of prostitution is a simple fix for dealing with the problem hidden deep within. I think that there is a false sense of empowerment that goes along with prostitution, i.e. being the john's fantasy or object of desire that can be manipulated. Maybe women should really just deal with these problems and there would be a significant decrease in prostitution.

[BeTheReds]

Most prostitutes were sexually abused.


Yea, but was that before or after they became prostitutes?

[mrazntre]

where have you been ?

[achtungbaby]

One out of three is the standard number and what I've always heard. I didn't believe the breast cancer rate (one out of seven) when it came out either. I just googled "sexual abuse statistics" and got this:

38% of girls are sexually abused before the age of 18. 16% of boys are sexually abused before the age of 18.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:ZH2fS6kIs18J:allahsway.com/msg/statistics2.htm+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 14.
1 in 6 boys is sexually abused before the age of 16.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:74C8_vABs-oJ:www.darkness2light.org/KnowAbout/statistics.shtml+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

"...about 1 in 4 women in North America were molested in childhood."

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:Wmvq_X6cPTkJ:www.therapistfinder.ne t/Child-Abuse/Child-Abuse-Statistics.html+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

1 in 4 girls and at least 1 in 10 boys is sexually abused in some way by the age of 18.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:uCERI3LornoJ:www.safechild.org/childabuse1.htm+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Approximately 1 out of 3 girls and 1 out of 5 boys will be sexually abused before the age of 18.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:gTu9_maA7fIJ:www.goodtouchbadtouch. com/abuse_facts.html+sexual+abuse+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Hmmm. How accurate is this?

[younggiftedandblack]

Does or has anyone lived anywhere where prostitution was laegal?? And where there any adverse effects that you noticed link to it??

[nola]

Before they became prostitutes and usually before 18.

These kinds of statistics always seem high to me but these have been the numbers going for a long time.

[kasia]

one in three is also the number that i've heard for the sexual assault of women. as for the other stats, they may seem high, but it may also have to do with the way in which they define "molestation" or "abuse". as for "sexual assault", there's no real way they can fudge the definition of that.

[Green_Circle]

If it's one in three females who were sexually abused, I'm surprised that there aren't even more prostitutes than there currently are.

[mrazntre]

one in three is also the number that i've heard for the sexual assault of women. as for the other stats, they may seem high, but it may also have to do with the way in which they define "molestation" or "abuse". as for "sexual assault", there's no real way they can fudge the definition of that.


i beg to differ since it was the former president Bill Clinton that fudged the definition and meaning of B.J.s

[Arex]

If it's one in three females who were sexually abused, I'm surprised that there aren't even more prostitutes than there currently are.
Well, it's not like being sexually abused causes women to be prostitutes...

RX

[mrazntre]

Well, it's not like being sexually abused causes women to be prostitutes...

RX

in a way, it does because they are converting from a position of weakness into a position of dominance, ie. they feel as if they can control their own fate by doing so. I suppose it would be better to associate this specifically with sexually deviant behavior, but i think it falls along the same lines. essentially they do fall into the trap of furthering the abuse through their own actions because it's already been done, kind of like a perpetuating cycle. once you pop you can't stop.

[nola]

Well, it's not like being sexually abused causes women to be prostitutes...

RX


It does, Arex, because children who are sexually abused have lower self-esteem which puts them in a position to devalue themselves, sell their bodies and be violated.

[tapestrybabe]

It does, Arex, because children who are sexually abused have lower self-esteem which puts them in a position to devalue themselves, sell their bodies and be violated.

and whatchya gonna do about this issue...
you can argue all you want...
about the causes of prostitution...
you can give me all the statistics
all you want...

but in the end...
when it comes to this particular issue...
i say... it will be far more effective...
if we women took control of our own body...
our own lives...
choose whats best for ourselves...
without being dependant on any law...
regulating us when it comes to
telling us what to do or not to do...

[nola]

If men knew prostitutes were sexually abused they'd think twice before frequenting them and realize that oppressed women aren't here to serve men's needs.

[rice cracker]

You think men who go see a hooker for a cheap blowjob give a damn if she was abused or not? We're not talking about the cream of society visiting these whores, these are men with shit lives and personalities. Also, it's kind of funny that you're saying these women aren't here to serve men's needs, because, like, that's what whores do.

[Arex]

It does, Arex, because children who are sexually abused have lower self-esteem which puts them in a position to devalue themselves, sell their bodies and be violated.
I suppose in many cases sexual abuse may be a huge factor in a woman chosing to live a life of prostitution (given what I assume to be the effects of abuse on self-esteem or views on sex), but given that 1 in 3 women are supposedly abused, but not 1 in 3 women are prostitutes (or porn star or stripper), and that not 100% of all prostitutes were sexually abused, I don't think we can necessarily say sexual abuse causes prostitution.

If anything, I would hope that an increased awareness of the fact that many, if not most, prostitutes were sexually abused, would at the very least cause a John to treat the woman with a little more dignity...but that's probably too much to ask.=P

I wonder if there's any significant correlation between those that sexually abuse and those that frequent prostitutes...?

RX

[deez nuts]

We're not talking about the cream of society visiting these whores, these are men with shit lives and personalities.

my friends aren't scummy.

they're actually decent guys with a high level of education and pulling in a nice income. they're nice guys, it's just some of them that do visit hookers and brothels are stuck in shit marriages with a shit wife or in a shitty relationship or recovering from a shitty relastionship.

the others were just "experimenting" when they were younger. some of us experimented by paying for pot and smoking it. they just chose to experiment with paying for ass and smoking it. ok maybe they did a little of both or a lot of both. but, hey let's not judge.

[rice cracker]

my friends aren't scummy.

they're actually decent guys with a high level of education and pulling in a nice income. they're nice guys, it's just some of them that do visit hookers and brothels are stuck in shit marriages with a shit wife or in a shitty relationship or recovering from a shitty relastionship.

the others were just "experimenting" when they were younger. some of us experimented by paying for pot and smoking it. they just chose to experiment with paying for ass and smoking it. ok maybe they did a little of both or a lot of both. but, hey let's not judge.

Your friends visiting hookers and "experimenting" with them, while perhaps not scummy in their daily life, are indulging in extremely scummy activities to get off. There's a line there. It's kind of like your nice, keeping up with the Jones' neighbor who smokes crack on the weekends. Nice guy, scummy habit. I can understand the use of drugs or sex as a coping mechanism, however watching "Pimps Up, Hoes Down," has forever impressed me with the skankiness of most johns.

[deez nuts]

what can i say, nobody's perfect.

[rice cracker]

what can i say, nobody's perfect.

Everybody's equal, some are more equal than others :wink:

[deez nuts]

Everybody's equal, some are more equal than others :wink:

i disagree. it should be nobody's perfect but some are more perfect than others ;]

and my answer to the topic question: yes, legalize that booty and tax it.

but, some of guys i know or have known that do visit hookers have said no to me when i asked them this question. they said for them the rush of not getting caught (by the authority or by their gf's or wives) was a big part of the whole "getting off" process

edit: forgot to add smiley winky face.

[applehead]

If men knew prostitutes were sexually abused they'd think twice before frequenting them and realize that oppressed women aren't here to serve men's needs.

oh yeah.
right, 'cause men who frequent prostitutes
really care about things like that.

[mrazntre]

Your friends visiting hookers and "experimenting" with them, while perhaps not scummy in their daily life, are indulging in extremely scummy activities to get off. There's a line there. It's kind of like your nice, keeping up with the Jones' neighbor who smokes crack on the weekends. Nice guy, scummy habit. I can understand the use of drugs or sex as a coping mechanism, however watching "Pimps Up, Hoes Down," has forever impressed me with the skankiness of most johns.

Well I suppose you can also relate this to friends that fuck. Because they are experimenting/divulging in something that is supposed to be part of a relationship, rather than a fleshy desire that is simply being fulfilled as a service.

[nola]

I'm being idealistic as usual. If there was a general awareness that most prostitutes were sexually abused as children, less men would frequent them or at least treat prostitutes with more dignity. A parallel would be if there was general awareness that half of homeless people are mentally ill or war veterans with mental illnesses, people would try to solve the problem instead of condemning homeless people.

[>:^|]

I'm being idealistic as usual. If there was a general awareness that most prostitutes were sexually abused as children, less men would frequent them or at least treat prostitutes with more dignity. A parallel would be if there was general awareness that half of homeless people are mentally ill or war veterans with mental illnesses, people would try to solve the problem instead of condemning homeless people.

I would like to be idealistic as well.
Unfortunately, I think that the way we think about these issues reflects what we wish to see. We can believe that all men that frequent hookers are sleazeballs, because that helps us believe that nobody we know would do such a thing. We can believe that homeless people somehow deserve their fate, because that allows us to believe we'll never become homeless or that our social system is not in need of desperate repair.

Frankly, if we're going to legalize prostitution, I'd like to see some of the tax money (you know there will be tax money) go into programs that would assist people who want to leave the profession.

[rice cracker]

Well I suppose you can also relate this to friends that fuck. Because they are experimenting/divulging in something that is supposed to be part of a relationship, rather than a fleshy desire that is simply being fulfilled as a service.

Well, I think that sex between people with an existing relationship and a mutual understanding is different than being serviced. But that's just me. Adding commerce to the situation, in my opinion, annulls any sort of respect.

[mrazntre]

commerce

i.e. gifts. movies. dinner.

[rice cracker]

Meh, potato potater.

[mrazntre]

i like potato salad, but not mustard potato salad. I ate that with gumbo yesterday and it tasted not good.

[Faithless]

Berkeley wants to decriminalize it:

http://www.dailycal.org/article.php?id=15051
City Residents Push to Decriminalize Prostitution
Initiative Would Make Prostitution a Low Priority for Police

In its second attempt to decriminalize prostitution, a group of Berkeley residents is collecting signatures to put a proposal on the November ballot that would place enforcement of prostitution at the bottom of the Berkeley Police Department’s priority list.
“Angel’s Initiative” would require Berkeley police to report semi-annually to the City Council and the city’s Police Review Commission regarding all prostitution law enforcement activities, declare that city residents oppose calling prostitution a crime and direct the council to lobby in favor of decriminalization.
...

[ChinaLama]

I still don't quite see why porn is legal and prostitution isn't. Wouldn't the same arguments for drug legalization apply to prostitution? illegalizing it hasn't exactly made women *less* victimized, especially those working in the field. :P