What Is Bush's Endless War Costing Us?

[Hito]

I first heard this on a radio program last sunday night.
It was such a powerful piece that I went and found it online.

It is troubling that we never seem to have enough money for schools or libraries. but there is always billions available when we want to drop bombs.



Source: International Action Center (http://www.iacenter.org/war-cost.htm)

What is Bush's Endless War Costing You?

Unless you’re the CEO of General Dynamics or own major stock in Lockheed Martin, Boeing or one of the other major defense profiteers from defense contracts, the odds are Bush’s endless war will weigh heavy on the future of you and your family. Every dollar the government spends on war and the Pentagon - and Bush plans to spend trillions - means even less is spent for social programs and human needs.  Depending on how experts interpret the federal budget, allocations for the military in 2003 range from $396 billion (for current needs) to $776 billion (current needs and payment of interest on borrowing for prior military expenses).  Over the next five years, Bush has requested an additional $2,100 billion – that’s over 2.1 trillion dollars!  Add to this money to pay corporate farmers not to grow food; money to cover lost revenues so the wealthiest 3% of the population can get tax breaks; billions of dollars given to Israel every year to keep the people of Palestine under apartheid-like conditions; and billions to bail out failing industries and for “homeland security”, and it’s clear why social spending is getting the short stick.  Instead of spending money for death and destruction, on wasteful weapons research, on training our youth to kill and be killed, what if our tax dollars went to finance programs our communities could really use? While it’s hard for most of us to conceive how much a trillion or even a billion dollars really is, it’s not too hard to conceptualize what our lives might be like if:

Instead of Funding: $2 billion for the accident-prone Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft.

Our Tax money went to:

Restore money cut from current budget for job training & employment ($700 million); to train doctors for children’s hospitals ($85 million); for the Department of Education ($596 million); for worker safety programs ($9 million); $268 million for community block grants, and $417 Million to repair public housing.

Instead of Funding:  $3.2 billion for 1 new nuclear aircraft carrier.

Our Tax money went to:

Pay for Head Start for ½ million children

Instead of Funding: $4.5 billion for 1 Seahawk Attack Submarine.

Our Tax money went to:

Pay for low-income housing tax credit for the next 3 years.

Instead of Funding:  2 months of the war in Afghanistan (estimated at $1 billion to $3 billion per month)

Our Tax money went to:

Fund Philadelphia schools at the level of the wealthiest PA suburbs; provide adult job training in Pennsylvanians for the next 10 years; restore funds cut for Energy Conservation; and have money left over.

Instead of Funding: Tax cuts for the wealthiest 3% (estimated at $9.6 billion).

Our Tax money went to:

Train & pay a year’s salary for 20,000 new teachers; build 26,668 new middle-income houses; staff 4,000 quality child care centers; provide 333,334 youth with summer jobs;  train 8,334 new Doctors; hire over 48,000 workers at union wages to clean up neighborhoods in Philadelphia, and still have money left over.

Instead of Funding:  $3- 5 billion dollars per year to fund Israeli occupation of Palestine.

Our Tax money went to:

Pay the outstanding U.S. debt to the United Nations; fund international AIDS research; build and staff 1,400 drug rehab centers; construct 400 new recreation or senior centers; clean-up toxic waste sites, and more

All of the programs listed above total under $30 billion – less than 1.5% (a drop in the bucket) of what Bush plans to spend on the military over the next five years.

The U.S. already spends more on it’s military than the rest of the countries in the world combined. This spending has little to do with our security.  It doesn’t prevent attacks like September 11, and because it’ll be used to promote endless wars abroad - it will only foster more. Is it any accident that the top contributors to the 2000 federal political campaign, Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics, are also the top recipients of U.S. multi-billion dollar defense contracts, or that the U.S. has become the world’s biggest exporter of military weapons?  The majority in the U.S., working and poor people, can’t afford the paid lobbyists or the generous political contributions that buy the votes of congressmen who divide up the tax dollar pie. But we can make our voices heard, every chance we get. Let them know that better education, guaranteed healthcare, cleaner and safer neighborhoods, jobs at union wages, and programs that promote world peace and understanding are our priorities – and the only solution to insure a safe and secure future

Issued by Philadelphia A.N.S.W.E.R. (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism), 215-724-1618; e-mail: Philanswer@hotmail.com  

[achtungbaby]

Why not just dissolve the military altogether?!?!

I see their point, though I think I'd give it more merit if it weren't more objectively balanced by providing reasons why we've increased military spending in the first place: did it just happen, out of the blue, for no apparent reason?

[wylin]

i can give u guyz sum reasons

1. Osprey the marines need a highspeed vertical take off helicopter like thing that can get them into/out of combat zones quicker the movie black hawk down is a good example why slow moving helicopters are the bane of aerial deployed troops their slow, have small range, cant linger, are slow movers and easy to shoot down w/ small arms or RPG/ small shoulder mounted weapons. Thus the osprey was devised in mid 80's to alliviate this problem. Reason its so expensive was the technology had to be created and at first was not aerodynamically sound.

2.nuclear aircraft carrier, what he means is a Nimitz Class nuclear powered 1/4 mile long boat. These are great investments and i think they need to replace the old 1960's era "Enterprise-Class" ship the USS enterprise. My friend served on this thing it needs to be retired its a death trap compared to the newer nimitz class and air craft carriers are the back bone of our national security. What u rather have spend 2-3x more renovating one of the older nimitz or enterprise class ships?

3. seahawk i cant justify this thing sucks and shoulda been cancelled it can detected with todays super powerful sonar (that pisses off whales) and isnt very quiet. This one is sumones porkbarrel pet project.

4. Afghanistan war - dude we need revenge its part of being american and what do u want the Al Quida to have a nice base they can opperate happily from its either send troops in to route them out or launch a Ballistic nuclear strike. what is a better anti-terrorist solution? neither but we picked the lesser of 2 evils. or he rather have us spend billions using conventional air attacks which are effective 25% of the time. Yes missiles are 50% effective ever notice they launch in pairs, Laser Guided bombs have about a 25% kill rate their not that accurate.

5. isreal - jewish lobby and they are an excellent customer for our arms/ deffense industry. nuff said also palestine biblically belongs to them. Its their homeland thru the ages. they should fight for it is my view. And america has historically support pro-zionist type activity kinda america's penance after the horrors prior and during world war 2, and america's ignoring them. The jewish lobby is very strong and it exerts alot of political influence. And i see nothing wrong with supporting them even if its destabilizes the middle east. Even without isreal to fight against the arab nations would be fighting each other with their many ethnic differences.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 28 2002, 07:23 AM-->

[Hito]

Achtungbaby:
I just read in Michael Moore's book (Stupid white men)
About the republican tendency to lash out at public schools and the state of education, but these are the same guys who have no problem bankrolling the latest greatest technology.
And lets be real this stuff is going to be used brown people period.
If not the Middle East then china or Korea or the PI.

Wylin:
If we didn’t raise soo much hell globally we wouldn’t need soo much of that hardware.
And I hear the osprey is problematic to say the least.

Revenge is the quick path to annihilation.
Some say the attacks on September 11 were revenge for wrongs perceived done by amerika.
Where did that get us?

To me Zionism is just another way of saying colonialism.
The Jewish settlers in the west bank = settlers expanding west here in amerika. If they had the equivalent to diseased blankets to hand out to the Palestinians I am sure they would do it.
But for now tanks and machine guns do just fine.

[wylin]

Originally posted by Hito@Aug 28 2002, 08:55 AM
Achtungbaby:
I just read in Michael Moore's book (Stupid white men)
About the republican tendency to lash out at public schools and the state of education, but these are the same guys who have no problem bankrolling the latest greatest technology.
And lets be real this stuff is going to be used brown people period.
If not the Middle East then china or Korea or the PI.

Wylin:
If we didn’t raise soo much hell globally we wouldn’t need soo much of that hardware.
And I hear the osprey is problematic to say the least.

Revenge is the quick path to annihilation.
Some say the attacks on September 11 were revenge for wrongs perceived done by amerika.
Where did that get us?

To me Zionism is just another way of saying colonialism.
The Jewish settlers in the west bank = settlers expanding west here in amerika. If they had the equivalent to diseased blankets to hand out to the Palestinians I am sure they would do it.
But for now tanks and machine guns do just fine.
my response to

point 1: not raise hell not need hardware. isolationism never gets anyone anywhere u just leave ur head in the sand and let people rise up and become dangerous. America was an isolationist country before WW2

point 2: Wars never just about revenge. but revenge in general works if u use overwhelming force to humiliate/ anialate ur enemy. its like dealing with children picking on each others theres 2 ways to deal with it be a bitch and just take it and cry to ur moms, or fight back show sum wevos/ balls and show that ur nation will use overwhelming force and will hunt and kill/ capture its enemies. I dont think fundamentalists realized he'd be opening a can of whoop ass when they commit this type of act. Awoken the sleeping dragon.

point 3: Zionism is the recreation/ restoreation of the old-testament biblical isreali/ jewish state. Its not really colonialism its just getting back what was the jews rightfully in their minds given to them by God almighty. i think the isreali's have actually showed alot of restrait obviously ur seeing this issue from the pro palestinian side. What u rather isreal do what Zionist extremists and jewish fundamentalists want annialiate or expel the palestinians for good. a good example of how to (maybe how not too) deal w muslim terrorists/nationalists is in the former soviet republic of Chechniya... the russians have pretty much in their quest to stop nationist/ terrorist attack from chechyan rebels have leveled most of the cities w/ air and artillery attacks, made everyone one thats not on the russians side in chechniya of 3 things 1. a refuge, 2. a rebel to be exterminated, 3. dead. many isreali's wish the same, talking w jewish people here in america i get that response why doesnt isreal do what russia did flatten its enemies flatten palestine and blow up the religious icons/ places (they wanted to do this in 1967 war btw blow up the islamic temple of the mount (biblical jewish holy temple)... they cant do terrorist acts any more or stop isreal from getting its god given "righteous" land rights with that solution.

lotsa reasons. =P im neither pro isreal or palestinie in general but i can see that theirs valid reasons to be so foul and cruel to each other fighting for what u believe in. I dont really see that either side is evil or wrong just they have divergant insterest and america should let them fight it out among themselves just like the old days 2000 years ago. Isreal can get weapons from anyone russians, french, chinese, americans same shit just get outa the conflict and let them kill each ohter.

for iraq just wait long enuff sadamm will die sumday just cut him off economically and finacially and let his people starve eventually they will kill/ oust him like bush and them want just not this moment.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 28 2002, 10:40 AM-->

[wylin]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Aug 27 2002, 05:14 PM
Why not just dissolve the military altogether?!?!

then where else would the young dumb and restless and without direction go!??! i think we should make miltary service mandatory on everyone who doesnt goto college or is not in jail. No college means ur gonna learn displine it would also solve alot of the obesity problem cuz those ppl would be buffed up by basic training.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Hito@Aug 28 2002, 09:55 AM
About the republican tendency to lash out at public schools and the state of education, but these are the same guys who have no problem bankrolling the latest greatest technology.

I agree, it's hypocritical for Republicans to criticize the effectiveness of public school education when in fact there's even less accountability for military spending, but it still doesn't change the fact that K-12 education sucks. I have no problem with giving education the lion's share of a General Fund; in California, for example, education receives about 40% -- but would you be able to tell? I just think it's too convenient to say, "Down with the military, up with education"; as they say, the devil is in the details.

Originally posted by Hito@Aug 28 2002, 09:55 AM
And lets be real this stuff is going to be used brown people period. &nbsp;If not the Middle East then china or Korea or the PI.

This is one area in which I'll say that race is less of an issue. National security isn't defined by skin color -- more by power and greed, if anything. The Cold War, remember, while fought on various brown fronts, was against a white enemy. So was Bosnia.

Originally posted by Hito@Aug 28 2002, 09:55 AM
If we didn’t raise soo much hell globally we wouldn’t need soo much of that hardware...Some say the attacks on September 11 were revenge for wrongs perceived done by amerika. &nbsp;Where did that get us?

I agree that the U.S. has stuck its nose into other peoples' business far too many times, but I think it's naive to think the U.S. can suddenly become Switzerland. The reality is that we are a superpower, economically and militarily, and both are interdependent.

As far as some saying, in so many words, that the 9/11 attacks were justified: that is completely ludicrous. No country -- no civilians -- deserve to be punished like that, it's tantamount to saying that Japan deserved the A-bomb for its war crimes against Korea and China; further, the 9/11 attacks weren't carried out by freedom fighters or rebels, they were carried out by fanatics. Showing consideration to their "motivations" and their agenda is like respecting Timothy McVeigh and his anti-government rails. There are plenty of U.S. critics out there, none of whom muttered, "See what you get?" afterwards.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by wylin@Aug 28 2002, 11:48 AM
then where else would the young dumb and restless and without direction go!??! i think we should make miltary service mandatory on everyone who doesnt goto college or is not in jail. No college means ur gonna learn displine it would also solve alot of the obesity problem cuz those ppl would be buffed up by basic training.
I was being sarcastic, btw :lol:

[wylin]

i know i just had to make the comment!

[wylin]

also Hito one single Multiple Warhead MIRV submarine fired missile would be the cheapest way to end an endless war w/ iraq or what not. Drop 100 mil fire that dam thing end a country in nuclear fire. 6 high yield thermonuclear warheads. (ah i been playing too much civilization, i always end up starting a nuclear conflict)



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 30 2002, 09:35 AM-->

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Hito@Aug 28 2002, 09:55 AM

I just read in Michael Moore's book (Stupid white men)
About the republican tendency to lash out at public schools and the state of education, but these are the same guys who have no problem bankrolling the latest greatest technology.
And lets be real this stuff is going to be used brown people period.
If not the Middle East then china or Korea or the PI.


Hito: I was looking at this book just the other day. What did you think?

[johnny]

you guys amaze me on how much you dig up or keep up with worldly affairs....is it just me who has no time nor any energy to read up on it? I hate wacthing same old BS news.

How do you guys do it?

[wylin]

thats easy watch news

[angel nympho]

^--- LOL.

how bout... instead of creating weird little threads here, you could go to CNN.com and brush up on your current events. :D hey i'm just messing with you, kid...

All of you guys raised a lot of good points. I think that, yes, the US has definately stuck its nose into EVERYBODY's business... and sometimes I wonder if that's a little egotistical of us to think that everything is our business... but at the same time, I realize that it's up to the rest of the world to put in a hand against .. umm... evil? Sometimes, i think it's totally appropriate, sometimes I wonder if the US should have done anything at all. And funding is what keeps the US in the position to wonder if we should step in or not. Its good that we have the option to do so.

I definately think there are a lot of areas that need more funding than the military, but in times like these, people just get a little... carried away? military technology is what keeps us so afloat. who knows what could happen if the rest of the world didn't see us as a threat? putting a lot of money into the military is something that needs to be done, but I definately DO think other things should be on the priority list as well.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by wylin@Aug 30 2002, 08:34 AM
also Hito one single Multiple Warhead MIRV submarine fired missile would be the cheapest way to end an endless war w/ iraq or what not. Drop 100 mil fire that dam thing end a country in nuclear fire. 6 high yield thermonuclear warheads. (ah i been playing too much civilization, i always end up starting a nuclear conflict)
wylin, just outta curiousity, do you subscribe Solider of Fortune or something? How the hell do you know so much about the military, weaponry, etc...?

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by johnny@Aug 30 2002, 12:52 PM
you guys amaze me on how much you dig up or keep up with worldly affairs....is it just me who has no time nor any energy to read up on it? I hate wacthing same old BS news.

How do you guys do it?
You think I'm bad, SungWuKung is even more of a news-whore!

CNN.com is pretty good, but honestly, I rarely check it out. Moreover.com is king :D

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 30 2002, 06:56 PM
I definately think there are a lot of areas that need more funding than the military, but in times like these, people just get a little... carried away? military technology is what keeps us so afloat. who knows what could happen if the rest of the world didn't see us as a threat? putting a lot of money into the military is something that needs to be done, but I definately DO think other things should be on the priority list as well.
I agree. I think you clarified my earlier point: I disagree with most extremist views (i.e., trash the military and increase social spending).

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Aug 30 2002, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by johnny@Aug 30 2002, 12:52 PM
you guys amaze me on how much you dig up or keep up with worldly affairs....is it just me who has no time nor any energy to read up on it? &nbsp;I hate wacthing same old BS news. &nbsp;

How do you guys do it?
You think I'm bad, SungWuKung is even more of a news-whore!

CNN.com is pretty good, but honestly, I rarely check it out. Moreover.com is king :D
bah! i read CNN.com with a grain of salt. sometimes it can be pretty biased.

[wylin]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Aug 30 2002, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by wylin@Aug 30 2002, 08:34 AM
also Hito one single Multiple Warhead MIRV submarine fired missile would be the cheapest way to end an endless war w/ iraq or what not. Drop 100 mil fire that dam thing end a country in nuclear fire. 6 high yield thermonuclear warheads. (ah i been playing too much civilization, i always end up starting a nuclear conflict)
wylin, just outta curiousity, do you subscribe Solider of Fortune or something? How the hell do you know so much about the military, weaponry, etc...?
i read alota popular science, watch history channel, read books, watch discovery channel, work for the cops, have alota ex military friends, took sum classes.

Correction its MIRV is fired from a submarine. its called a Multiple Impact Re-entry Vehicle, basically its a rocket that carries a classified (theoriezed as 6) large nuclear warheads and each nuclear missile sub carries 12-24 of these happy world annialating things.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 31 2002, 04:42 PM-->

[Hito]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 30 2002, 01:34 PM
Hito: I was looking at this book just the other day. What did you think?
Still about only half way through it at the moment.
Moore's style is more acessable to the regular person than writers like say Chompsky or Zinn.
It is funny too and that helps you stay engaged with what he has to say.

So far He has had a lot to say about the stolen election and the prevelance of europeons in the media, the ignorance of the average american (and the pride we take in that ignorance)
And like i said before a lot to say about the hipocracy of the right as it relates to the military and education.

I would have no problem recomending this book.

[Hito]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 30 2002, 09:14 PM

bah! i read CNN.com with a grain of salt. sometimes it can be pretty biased.
Take it with a whole salt lick.
Outlets like CNN and FOX are like 2 sides of the same coin.
Coporate media is biased toward corporate interest.


I pick up most of my news from Pacifica (http://www.pacifica.org) radio KPFK (http://www.kpfk.com) is the local afilliate