job advice - whether and when to accept an offer

[kasia]

i just got an offer for my first real attorney position. and i'm happy about it - this was one of my top choices. but my problem is this - i still am waiting to hear back from another place - my very first choice. i just sent in my application to that place on friday.

the firm giving me the offer would like for me to respond by friday.

my question is this:

if i accept this offer and start working there, then later get an interview and an offer from the other place, is it really really bad etiquette to leave? would i have to stay for at least a year? half a year?

[537]

I personally don't think it's bad etiquette. You've got to do what's best for you.

[thaite]

Woohoo, negotiation time. You need to tell the folks with the current offer that you are entertaining other possibilities, see if they sweeten the deal for you. How long a wait do you anticipate before your first choice responds? A month? Less? How are your chances? You may as well just wait and avoid any sort of hard feelings with the first offer.

[kasia]

Woohoo, negotiation time. You need to tell the folks with the current offer that you are entertaining other possibilities, see if they sweeten the deal for you. How long a wait do you anticipate before your first choice responds? A month? Less? How are your chances? You may as well just wait and avoid any sort of hard feelings with the first offer.

they're basically giving me 4 days - til this friday - to respond.

[John0101]

well congrats on the first offer. I don't know much about job searching and stuff like that but maybe you should call the other company and tell them that you would still want to work for them but you have another offer and put pressure on them to decide now.

[kasia]

my guess is that this stuff happens all the time in the real working world.

how do you keep from making enemies? or at least creating hard feelings?

[Arex]

Congrats, Kasia! A REAL lawyer job! (As opposed to the "fake" ones you've been juggling these past few months, eh?)

Unfortunately, I can't help you here. I was starving for a decent job that I just jumped at the first (and only) offer I got. Accepted my offer the next day. Any way you can ask for an additional few days to think the first offer over? Then, in the meantime, call up your #1 pick and let 'em know that they should call you in for an interview so you can win them over ASAP!

RX

[thaite]

I have no idea how it might affect you in the law profession, but I do know that in my own that 1) negotiation is okay, 2) changing your mind after accepting an offer is okay, as long as you haven't started work yet, 3) Once you start, you probably ought to give it 6 months to a year before going somewhere else. My profession is a relatively small pool of people where everybody knows everybody, and once you start making a bad name for yourself, it gets around.

[kasia]

Once you start, you probably ought to give it 6 months to a year before going somewhere else.

yeh, ditto.

good advice. i think you're right. good etiquette would be at least 6 mos.

[lethal]

First of all, congrats on the job offer!

Are the firms in teh same general area or is one in SoCal and the other in NorCal?

Word gets around quickly in the legal profession...really, it is a small group of peopel that see each other a lot. You don't want to create any ill will.

If there's any way you can get more time from the place that offered or speed up the interview process for the other place, you need to do it. Once you accept an offer, I'd say that it's particularly poor etiquette to continue interviewing and possibly take a different offer. Its just bad form.

I was actually in that position. One firm gave me about 2 weeks to get back to them, but the other firms were not going to get back to me for 3 weeks. I had to call to speed up their decision making processes. I asked for an extra week from teh offering firm, but they didn't give it to me.

Luckily the 2 other firms got back to me before the deadline.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that the legal community is small enough that you should watch your reputation at all times. Everything you do reflects on your career.

[kasia]

thanks for the advice. it's helping.

[Chester]

What about calling back to your #1 choice and giving them a bit of pressure to respond more quickly. I don't think there's any harm in letting them know, truthfully, that you're a wanted on the open market and already have concrete competing offers.

[SunWuKong]

don't know if the legal industry functions this way...
but you can tell them that you can't give them a decision by Friday, because you're waiting to hear from another firm. they've extended an offer to you already, which means they want you to work for them. delaying them for one or two weeks won't change that.
also call the other firm that hasn't made a decision yet and pressure them for a decision, saying you already have an offer but would like to know if they want to extend an offer, too.
again, not sure if the legal industry functions this way.

[SynRG]

I work in Executive Recruiting ("Headhunting"), so I'm very familiar with the recruitment process... however my disclaimer is that my experience is all in the China job market, not the U.S. one, nor am I *too* familiar with the Law Industry, which kinda has it's own little unwritten rules and ways of doing things. My company mainly does senior level searches for multinational FMCG (Fast Moving Consumer Goods.. like Gillette or Coca-Cola) and Manufacturing companies looking to localize in China, so keep in mind the rules that apply there could be real different than the rules that apply to recruiting for Lawfirms.

Generally, when a company hires you there is a sort of "grace period" ranging from 1 month to 3 months where they "feel you out." No HR or Recruitment Manager, no matter how good they are at interviewing, will be able to tell if a person is 100% suitable for a position until they start working in that position for some amount of time. So, while it may be a dick-in-the-face for the company that just hired you, it's not horribly uncommon for people to leave these companies within this period because they got a better offer. In fact, the better the job market is, the more these type of incidents occur. Any good company should realize the reality of that situation.

However, that being said, there's a slew of things that I would think particularly in the American job market you will have to worry about- the first being the employment contract. What are the terms of your contract should you sign it?

In China and HK, Headhunting firms have clauses in their contracts that say you cannot work for a competitor company for a period of 6 months. I don't know if Lawfirms have these kind of things in their contracts but I do know that at least in China and HK they are unenforcable; they are empty threats. Basically, once you leave a company there is really no way they can really penalize you, at least over here. Such was the case when I, along with my current boss and 5 other employees, left a Multinational Top 3 Executive Search firm to form our own competitor company which I still work for today. Threats of lawsuits were made. None were ever followed through.

The other problem is that outside of the the legal issues, which could or could not be a problem depending on American labor law, there are also the the other consequences that someone else here mentioned, mainly your reputation. Again the Law industry is something I'm not too familiar with, but the preception is your reputation is everything. In general, you never want to leave any company with a sour taste in their mouths, but at the end of the day this is reality, and you are probably not the only candidate for this position.

Anyways, given that, what I would do in your situation is push the firm that you really want to work for, like SWK and Chester said, and tell them that you have an immediate offer from the other firm. Basically, what you want to do is create a situation where the firm you really want to work for realizes that if they don't act fast they will lose a valuable candidate. This should let you know real quick where you stand as far as being a top candidate for that firm.

These situations happen all time in Executive Recruiting when, for instance, I'm trying to Headhunt someone who is in between jobs, or is being Headhunted by another Search company. So, at least to me, it's nothing new. However, the firm you want to work for doesn't get back to you in time, then personally if it were me I would just bite the bullet and take the offer at hand, and then feel out the situation from there. One thing I know for sure is it's always easier to get another job when you allready have one, as opposed to not having one at all.

Anyways, that's my two cents.. but if possible get the advice of an America-based Lawyer before you do anything. They would know much better than I would. If you want advice on working overseas though, then I'm your man. :wink:

[younggiftedandblack]

Pretty much what Syn said. You'd be entering into a contract with the lesser company if you signed on right now and up and quitting too soon can have adverse affects.

I applied for a good job years ago didn't hear from them in the time I THOUGHT i should have and then joined the AF. Wouldn't you know it they called a few days later after I shipped out.

[Arex]

Pretty much what Syn said. You'd be entering into a contract with the lesser company if you signed on right now and up and quitting too soon can have adverse affects.

I applied for a good job years ago didn't hear from them in the time I THOUGHT i should have and then joined the AF. Wouldn't you know it they called a few days later after I shipped out.
Um, I think Kasia's situation is a bit different than going into military service since she can always walk away from a normal job. (What are the penalties for prematurely leaving military service?)

RX

[younggiftedandblack]

Um, I think Kasia's situation is a bit different than going into military service since she can always walk away from a normal job. (What are the penalties for prematurely leaving military service?)

RX

Not really because in a way she would be entering into a contract with the firm. If she worked for the lesser company for awhile then got a better offer and informed her current organization that she would be leaving in a few weeks or months then I don't see that as too big of a deal. But I think it wouldn't look too good if she jumped from company to company after a matter of a few months or days even.

I say hold out for as long as you can. If they take their offer off the table and you never hear from your top pick, there's always other places you can go.

[kboy75]

I've been in this position many times.

The bottom line is that the firm giving you an offer WANTS YOU. Unless they are some hot firm, they will not just dump you after investing so much time with you already.

Like people said already, just have to tactfully explain that you need more time. 5 days to decide is not normal. Etiquette is 2 weeks. They are trying to get you for CHEAP. If you explain that you have other offers that you are considering, they will sweaten it for you. Maybe you can arrange to have lunch or something t talk it over with one of the decision makers. I had a friend do that and it helped.

Don't accept and then leave soon after. Looks really bad and juts really bad etiquette. You may have to work with these people later in your career! you never know! I'm serious. It's happened to me.

Lastly, congrats! Obviously, you are wanted, so I wouldn't worry to much.

[Arex]

Not really because in a way she would be entering into a contract with the firm. If she worked for the lesser company for awhile then got a better offer and informed her current organization that she would be leaving in a few weeks or months then I don't see that as too big of a deal. But I think it wouldn't look too good if she jumped from company to company after a matter of a few months or days even.

I say hold out for as long as you can. If they take their offer off the table and you never hear from your top pick, there's always other places you can go.
True true. I don't think it's ever good to jump ship too prematurely. I just meant to comment on your kind of unfortunate situation...=P

RX

[kasia]

Um, I think Kasia's situation is a bit different than going into military service since she can always walk away from a normal job. (What are the penalties for prematurely leaving military service?)

RX

hahaha. thanks for the advice, synergy. just called the p.d.'s office to let them know that i'm being pressured to answer an offer.

most of you probably know already that i want to work at the p.d.'s office. it's just hard b/c of the county budget.

[yoMAMA]

Congrats Kasia!

Hope you get the best offer, and create your own lawyer joke some day too! :eek: :wink:

[from a humble aspiring law student :biggrin: ]

[kasia]

just an update:

i talked to the people i know at the p.d.'s office & they gave me their timeline of when they will start interviewing and hiring. won't be until half a year later.

i have accepted the offer at www.lafla.org and will be happily starting there in a week.

*cheers to not selling out*

[Chester]

i have accepted the offer at www.lafla.org and will be happily starting there in a week.
Sweet. Congratulations.

[yoMAMA]

Nice!

[SynRG]

Congratulations Kasia! Now just think.. 6 months from now should you decide to apply for the P.D.'s office you're have a whole 6 months of working full-time for another firm under your belt! :biggrin: