Move to Desegregate L.A. Jails Endangers Asians, Families Say

[achtungbaby]

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Sheriff Lee Baca's decision to end jailhouse segregation by placing Asian and Asian-American inmates in the general population has angered families who complain the move puts their loved ones in danger. [details (http://yellowworld.org/?m=show&id=65)]

[kasia]

Recent increases in the Asian jailhouse population, coupled with budget constraints, jail closures and deputy layoffs, forced moving them into the general population, Campbell said.

so once again, a dollar amount has been assigned to human lives.

``Our goal is their goal -- a safe jail environment,'' Campbell said. ``That's what we told them, and we will monitor it. If it appears this has placed them in an undue amount of jeopardy, we could reverse the decision.''

how many inmates have to die before they are convinced that doing this places them in peril? they can reverse the decision later on, but can they reverse the death of a person's father or brother? if studies show that it is dangerous to place Asians with the general population and they do so nonetheless, wouldn't this constitute cruel and unusual punishment?

[yangbahn50]

If studies show that it is dangerous to place Asians with the general population and they do so nonetheless, wouldn't this constitute cruel and unusual punishment?

You know, that's what I was thinking about.

First of all, I didn't know that Asians and Asian-Americans were kept apart from the other prison population (at least in LA).
I've always wondered how an Asian male would not get into a scuffle with some brawny black male...etc.

I might write a letter to chief Baca in regards to this issue.

[kasia]

i wonder if people would care more if they knew that there is a fricken GREEN LIGHT on the asians in the southern california prisons.

[rice cracker]

i wonder if people would care more if they knew that there is a fricken GREEN LIGHT on the asians in the southern california prisons.

What do you mean by "green light?" I honestly don't know.

[kasia]

What do you mean by "green light?" I honestly don't know.

sorry. a leader of a gang -whether inside or outside of prison - can put a green light on a particular person or gang if there is a grudge. e.g., if a member of an asian gang killed the wife of a latino gang leader, that leader could put a "green light" on all of the members of that asian gang, which is basically an order for his men to kill them if they come across them. i don't know the story behind this green light. i only heard from different attorneys that one exists and that is why desegregation is a danger.

[moJo]

sorry. a leader of a gang -whether inside or outside of prison - can put a green light on a particular person or gang if there is a grudge. e.g., if a member of an asian gang killed the wife of a latino gang leader, that leader could put a "green light" on all of the members of that asian gang, which is basically an order for his men to kill them if they come across them. i don't know the story behind this green light. i only heard from different attorneys that one exists and that is why desegregation is a danger.
interesting to know. hmm. if they are going to keep segregation of asian gang members...what about the members of different asian gangs who may want to greenlight each other? there's another sub-segregation of those people in the asian-only unit?

[kasia]

interesting to know. hmm. if they are going to keep segregation of asian gang members...what about the members of different asian gangs who may want to greenlight each other? there's another sub-segregation of those people in the asian-only unit?

not that i've ever heard of...

there aren't that many asians in there to begin with.

[Iconoclastic]

if ya cant do the time, dont do the crime

[cool]

The green light, from what I've read, stems from a early 1990's gang war in Long Beach between the Eastside Longos, a Latino gang, and the Tiny Rascal Gangsters, a mainly Cambodian gang that resulted in many many deaths.

This gang war was enough to provoke green lighting of all Asians in LA County jail and has carried over to the state prison system too.

[kasia]

The green light, from what I've read, stems from a early 1990's gang war in Long Beach between the Eastside Longos, a Latino gang, and the Tiny Rascal Gangsters, a mainly Cambodian gang that resulted in many many deaths.

This gang war was enough to provoke green lighting of all Asians in LA County jail and has carried over to the state prison system too.

thanks for the info. i believe i heard the same story. and they killed the latino boss' wife, right? i've heard of the trg - i didn't realize they've been around.

[kasia]

if ya cant do the time, dont do the crime

i don't think the asian inmates there were sentenced to death.

[Blue dice]

The "greenlight" is still going on with random murders being carried out against cambodian families. I know most of the gangwarfare is going on in Long Beach. I haven't seen it spread elsewhere in the valley. Most hispanic and asian communities peacefully coexist, just look at most of the San Gabriel valley where ethnic neighborhoods merge into each other.

22 year old Marine Lance Corporal Sok Khak Ung was killed in his backyard in Long Beach. This is a purple of heart recipient who served in Iraq. He was home on leave having a BBQ with his friends when some hispanic gangbanger did a random shooting on the backyard and killed him. To say there's no danger against the few asians in prison is complete horseshit.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20031028-9999_1m28marine.html

[mr. x]

The "greenlight" is still going on with random murders being carried out against cambodian families. I know most of the gangwarfare is going on in Long Beach. I haven't seen it spread elsewhere in the valley. Most hispanic and asian communities peacefully coexist, just look at most of the San Gabriel valley where ethnic neighborhoods merge into each other.

22 year old Marine Lance Corporal Sok Khak Ung was killed in his backyard in Long Beach. This is a purple of heart recipient who served in Iraq. He was home on leave having a BBQ with his friends when some hispanic gangbanger did a random shooting on the backyard and killed him. To say there's no danger against the few asians in prison is complete horseshit.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20031028-9999_1m28marine.html

yeah i was totally wondering why he got killed, i spose maybe there was a gang element at the party but damn.

[SynRG]

Um.. I'm completely ignorant on the topic of Asians in prisons, could somebody here please educate me? I wasn't aware that prisons were segregated in the first place.

What's the reasoning we use that differentiates Asians in jail from other minority groups in jail? Are other minority groups segregated as well?

[Blue dice]

Um.. I'm completely ignorant on the topic of Asians in prisons, could somebody here please educate me? I wasn't aware that prisons were segregated in the first place.

What's the reasoning we use that differentiates Asians in jail from other minority groups in jail? Are other minority groups segregated as well?
Because prison gangs tend to abuse minorities within their population. Asians are definitely a tiny minority in most prison populations which makes them more vulnerable to rape, murder, etc.. I heard that in CA most of the asians in prison were in fact gangbangers or dealers which makes threats on their life even more serious. Especially when they have no "roof" or protection like Mexicans, blacks, and whites who all have some sort of unofficial support structure within the prison because of their numbers. Mexicans have the mexican mafia which "protects" them inside and blacks have their islamic and black gangs. Whites have their white supremacist groups inside to help them out.

While these prison gangs are made up of complete degenerates they are a necessary part of survival inside. You may think this sounds outrageous but this prison subculture is well documented. The Mexican mafia is _the_ largest and most powerful gang entity in CA and possibly the U.S. They even control gangs on the street, they have this power because if any of the gangs disobey when their members wind up in prison they can be "greenlighted" for murder inside lockup. So all the little gangsters have to listen to guys running the Mexican mafia unless they want to be killed. Prison is really a revolving door for most gangbangers. It's an initiation ritual for the younger gangsters to get sent to the pen at least once. So all orders for "greenlights" come from inside the prison first and are usually ordered by the Mexican Mafia. Without support your survival is counted in days until you're made into someone's punk, beaten, or murdered. I'm sure the Sheriff's dept knows this too they just don't care.

Some more info..back around the 90's the MM did get a little too powerful and the FBI got involved. They had some of the highest ranking leaders moved to isolation in pelican bay and other supermax prisons. It didn't really do squat because these guys are good at self governance if anything. With the power vacuum open they just replaced their leaders with more long term or lifer OGs. There's no shortage of scumbags inside of prison to takeover these roles.

[cool]

Throw them in population, and the Asians will form their own prison clique right? Most prison gangs started by members of an oppressed or endangered minority and since many Asians in prison are gang members anyway the situation is ripe. Any reasons this will not work?

[younggiftedandblack]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it illegal to still have segregated prisons??

[nonamerasian]

What if it's for each individual's protection?

[younggiftedandblack]

What if it's for each individual's protection?

That's good if it's done on a case by case base. But to segregate an entire segment of the prison population based on what if's is wrong IMO. What happens when other segments of the prison pop. start complaining (or suing) that the segregated ones get better treatment?

[kasia]

That's good if it's done on a case by case base. But to segregate an entire segment of the prison population based on what if's is wrong IMO. What happens when other segments of the prison pop. start complaining (or suing) that the segregated ones get better treatment?

if you read the previous posts, you'll learn that there has been a green light placed on *all* asian inmates. that is why the segregation exists and probably is warranted under the equal protection clause. in a perfect world, we should be able to hire additional and more effective prison guards to allow integration in the prisons - but if this isn't going to be the case, i don't think we should desegregate. doing so would be akin to murder.

if one population is, however, getting preferential treatment in the prisons, i suppose they could bring a claim against the prison officials.

[SynRG]

So basically since the Mexican Mafia has issued an order to kill all Asians in prison then it's been determined that the risk to them is higher than inmates of other ethnicities, am I getting this right?

At a first glance, it does sound hella racist. But then again, you still have rights as a human being in prison, and one of those I would think is the right to have your life protected. I think if it's true that Asians run a significantly higher risk of getting killed in prison then anybody else then that needs to be levied out somehow.

However on the flip side of that, I bet alot of non-Asians in prison are pretty pissed that Asians from their POV get preferential treatment. That could lead to more repurcussions against Asians when these people get out.

[Blue dice]

So basically since the Mexican Mafia has issued an order to kill all Asians in prison then it's been determined that the risk to them is higher than inmates of other ethnicities, am I getting this right?

The risk is a lot higher for asian inmates. Prison gangs are mostly divided by race, it doesn't pay to be on the side with the fewest members. There aren't many asians in prison so there aren't many "soldiers" on the inside.

However on the flip side of that, I bet alot of non-Asians in prison are pretty pissed that Asians from their POV get preferential treatment. That could lead to more repurcussions against Asians when these people get out.
It doesn't quite work that way. If you were never gang affiliated to begin with when you're out of the system you're clear. If you are a known gangster or dealer fronting some major organization then you're as vulnerable outside as you are inside. There is a method to these gang hits, they usually don't target _everyone_ except for people they think are gangsters. In prison all asians are targetted because it's a different world, ethnicity _is_ an indicator of your "affiliation" in prison. Even hispanics are divided down into Latin Kings (puerto ricans), the various gangs that use the "13" insignia, mara salvatrucha (el salvadorians) and whatever else. However outside the gangs target other gangmembers. The death of that asian marine was probably more of an anamoly. One of the little trigger happy hispanic homeboys fucked up and they brought major law enforcement heat down on themselves in Long Beach because they killed someone who isn't in the game so to speak.

[cool]

Wow you know quite a lot about gangs. Were you ever or are you gang affiliated?

[younggiftedandblack]

You make good point BD. Is it just a physical seperation? Like the asian prisoners are kept in one cell block and eat and exercise at different time then the majority of the other inmates.

I can see how they could still pull this off with little to no increase in operating cost. But then what happens when you start to run out of cell space? Sooner or later you'll have to intergregate some of the prisoners.

[Blue dice]

Wow you know quite a lot about gangs. Were you ever or are you gang affiliated?
I grew up in one of the shittier areas of LA but went to high school in the valley. There were a lot of hispanic and asian bangers around at the time. A lot of guys used to claim affiliation with one set or another. Most were posers but you did have a few people who had family into it or they were into it themselves. Most gangbangers get started around early high school and the guys who are considered OG's are age 25+ usually with kids. There's also multi-generation gangbangers in LA, especially with hispanic gangs. You'll have papa who used to run with zoot suits or some old school ghetto clique, then he has a son who used to run with the crews back in the 80's (white fence), and then their grandson who is in 18th street or other up and coming gangs.

Plus I have friends who are cops now, one worked in the Twin Tower's correctional facility in LA and he used to talk about the crap that goes on in there a lot.

Also, even though most of these gangbangers i'm talking about are murderers and criminals there are still some rules they do follow. Most won't go around taking out revenge hits on a rival gang's non affiliated family. You won't have gangs popping off each other's relatives who don't bang. That type of brutality is usually frowned upon because it brings unnecessary heat.

[Blue dice]

You make good point BD. Is it just a physical seperation? Like the asian prisoners are kept in one cell block and eat and exercise at different time then the majority of the other inmates.

It's just physical separation into different cell blocks. The issue of segregation is a necessity in prisons. Just like how they will separate most of the obviously gay inmates (yes, there's a difference between being a homosexual inmate and a prison punk) with the rest of the population because it's for their own protection. Plus rival gangs are often separated as well.

I can see how they could still pull this off with little to no increase in operating cost. But then what happens when you start to run out of cell space? Sooner or later you'll have to intergregate some of the prisoners.
That's when the shit hits the fan. If an inmate dies in their care the county can be sued for millions for negligence, endangerment, cruel and unusual punishment, and all sorts of stuff. So it's in their best interest to make it a safe environment.