help my friend pick a 30k sedan

[wylin]

Hez currently interested in the near luxury class on the low end max he can spend is 30k out the door:

split into these categories

Cushy:

Acura TL - giant honda accord V6 automatic only, safe reliable choice

SAAB 9-3 linear - dude it looks tight but how reliable are GM-owned saab cars? Turbocharged but reliability unknown

Audi A4 1.8t Quattro- turbo boosted madness, kinda soft handling and overweight

Sporty:
BMW 325i 5-speed manual- the typical choice for a new young professional/ yuppie, good Rear wheel drive performance lotsa options that push price up.

Infiniti G35 leather - 28k of goodness w/ 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Pretty fast but pushes the price and style/ taste w/ styling. Based off JDM Skyline 3500GT (same car minus 8-speed CVT)

Lexus IS300 5-speed manaul - pretty slow for the price and also pushes price range is based off lowly 2.3million yen altezza sedan that competes w/ accord so not so plush

what would u pick and why?



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 23 2002, 05:11 PM-->

[kimpossible]

I bargained HARD for my 9-3 and got it with all the premium options for $26,600. You're right about the reliability, not because of GM but because they've had serious electric problems.

The 325i and Audi A6 Quattro were also on the menu for me. The Beamer is nice, damn nice, to drive and the engineering is just amazing. The Audi I wasn't so impressed by, but that could be because I had my heart set on a TT.

$26,600 for a 9-3 was too much for me to walk away from. But, if your friend has the money, I think you can't beat the beamer.

[wylin]

coo, thats sum good info hapa, hmm then my choice of this lot would be the 2/03 released version of the G35 sedan. The 6 speed manual version of the G35. Leather speed and 0-60 in less then 6 seconds smack down. 4 door Z is basically what the G35 is it shares brakes w/ base Z's and its VQ35de motor is very similar to the Z's (same motor just less aggresive cams, intake manifold, ecu tuning, exhaust)

G35 sedan 6 speed version Leather and HID and sunroof. should be under 30k b4 taxes a lil over after!

[johnny]

i luv my 330i... The "Ultimate Driving Machine" best describes it! :D

[wylin]

yah i drove my dads bimmer a few times i was sorta impressed sorta not. it was an E36 (92--98) 325Ci it was good handling but interior felt cheap and i didnt like how the clutch was so heavy for such tepid power.

[johnny]

^
that car is slow and is an older model.

My civic can hang with that on freeway - the new bimmers are much more nicer; I agree the E36s have a cheap interior.

[wylin]

330 is still pretty slow by my yard stick. Remember i drive a turbo car w/ more horsepower then the 330i, and drove an FD3s Rx-7 for a portion of the time. Fast in my mind is like a supra TT or rx-7 w/ sum basic bolt ons read 450hp supra, 320hp Rx-7. Real fast is my friends 10.9 sec 1/4 mile 520hp single turbo 93 Rx-7.

But the interior has improved but i dislike the wood trim on luxury package models and 330 is out of his price range nehow. he'll be getting a newer 325i (which is slower then the old one), w/ 5 speed, leatherette (vinyl), 16' wheel, base radio, HID and Sunroof for about 30k-31k.

330i is 40 grand is kinda a rip off compared to sum of its newer rivals such as the G35 and Audi A4 2.8 Quattro. Content wise and luxury factor. My dads a bmw freak like u he'll be probs buying the next gen 5-series soon or an X5 4.6.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 30 2002, 09:23 AM-->

[wylin]

also i myself am personally buying a sedan around 30-35k range relatively soon (march or so) and of all the choices i think im leaning toward the G35 when it comes w/ a 6-speed manual. BMW 330i hunting time. actually the automatic G35 can face bmw's and be about the same. both are low 14-sec 1/4 mile cars.

[johnny]

I have to totally disagree with you on this...I mean by slow what do you mean? The 330 will kill an A4 Audi POS and the G35 is plain ugly. If I wanted fast I would get a super sports car for the 330 price range - hell a little more I could have bought the E46 M3. But why didn't I? Because I wanted some luxury, handling, road feel, some power (enough to spank an Audi and hang with a G35). BTW, people who have owned Audis say the driving experience feels nothing close to that of a Bimmer.

[johnny]

Originally posted by wylin@Aug 30 2002, 06:08 PM
also i myself am personally buying a sedan around 30-35k range relatively soon (march or so) and of all the choices i think im leaning toward the G35 when it comes w/ a 6-speed manual. BMW 330i hunting time. actually the automatic G35 can face bmw's and be about the same. both are low 14-sec 1/4 mile cars.
I'm sorry to say and take it the way you like but I strongly feel the G35 looks retarded from the back and does not come near to the "look" and "feel" of a Bimmer. I'm not staring a flame war on taste in cars but most people would agree in general and would buy the Bimmer if they had the $$$ (which is no issue for me b/c I work my butt off) :P

[wylin]

Just to note i can afford the bmw kiddo. i just dont warrant the price. if im gonna spend 40k it better be a bigger car. Or alternatively i'd spend the extra 8-10k get an M3.

Main reasons i dont like it are the 325/330 is most common im rich look for asian kids out here. The main reason i dont look at the BMW is i hate the new Sedan Tail Lights and their new headlight design, the 199-2001 were nice and i liked them lookin similar to the coupe but man i hate the new design it looks like it shoulda stayed on the acura RL/ Lexus LS430 that they ripped off for that non eurostyle design.

actually if i was gonna spend 40k+ on a entry luxury sedan i'd buy a C320 sport package. I think Bun-boy agrees that the mercedes is a much supperior car overall to the BMW 3-series sedan

Heres exactly what im lookin for in that class: requirements for me are HID lighting, Limited Slip Differential or AWD, leather, 4 doors, manual transmission, nearly maxed options this is gonna be my beater commuter car for school and work. and its probs gonna be stock cept for maybe bolt ons or ECU tuning.

G35 sedan manua (3/03 release)l - kinda ugly but fast and yes the tails are wack but u'll be seeing them alot esp if u have a 330 or 325i automatic. it can smoke all 3 series cept M3. Cost probs about 34k w/ everything i want Aero package, 6 speed, Sport susp, sunroof, etc.

Lexus IS300 manual tranny - slow but i get this dirt cheap thanx to my friends at toyota USA. i'd probably spend 29-30k out the door for a stick Is300 w/ leather and LSD. also its nice to be friends w/ people at XS engineering who make the turbo kit for this car.

Audi A4 1.8t Quattro -manaul tranny: i like this motor alot even tho its crappier then then the 3.0's 220 hp initially sum chip tuning and im at 220hp so not a big deal.

Mazda Rx-8 - man i love rotaries not really a luxury car but instead a 4 door sports car the rev's to 9000rpm and has same power weight and torque of an S2000 but for doors and the rotoraries pechant for consuming oil and apex seals.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 30 2002, 11:41 AM-->

[johnny]

If it wasn't the Bimmer, I would probably spent way less and bought the 350z. But I don;t think the back lights on those things would grow on me just as the G35 (whats up with Nissan and their backside?).

[johnny]

btw kiddo :P , go check out Car and Driver magazine, they made a test and when comparing the track times of the step b/t G35 and 330, the 330 won - raw HP is nothing. SO I guess I won't be seeing or getting use to your fugly G35 tails :blink:


Here's what I got from car forums:

arrived today (10/02 edition) page 78. 330i was tested against Acura, Audi, Infiniti, Benz and VW. The BMW was voted #1 again because of perfectly neutral steering, strong engine, price and the "attached to the road" feeling. C&D has jokingly banned BMW from all future comparisons because no other manufacturer can knock it from first place (p.91)! They say comparisons involving BMW's 3 Series are too predictible because the cars are always rated #1.

[The Infinity G35 came in fourth place.]

[wylin]

also we're talkin bout shitty cars still here no point to flaunt your 330i, its not that nice of a car, its not a porsche its not a ferrari its not even an M3, i denno from your posts i get this supperiority thing overall u have to be better then sumone else or sumthing. Sorry sum yuppie mobile aint gonna cut it. as the ultimate driving machine.

i mean maybe if u were bun boy got sumthing limited production like the C32 or like my friends who got an S4 or M3 u can say on man my cars the best in the world for this or that. 330 is nice car but not the best in class their better choices also if u account price it competes w/ only 2 of the cars the Audi a4 3.0 and the Mercedes C320 sport.

moot point moot topic my friend who wanted to spend 30k cant even afford one. I can just wont ever be swayed cuz i think BMW's suck for the price and are overpriced and underfeatured.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 30 2002, 12:31 PM-->

[mrazntre]

neutral steering... *sigh*

the sign of a true commuter car.

i think bimmer lost a lot of sport die hards when they softened up the 3 series, i.e. the above, and also the civic like power steering.

although the move towards complete luxury has been a blessing to old women, and crabby men, it has taken away from the gruntier group of mid 20's young professional's that desire a luxo-sport type of vehicle.

that said, whatever car i'm getting next, imma rip out the power steering.

but again, it is a "sim simmer, who got the keys to my bimmer?"

BTW: what's a beamer?

[johnny]

Originally posted by wylin@Aug 30 2002, 07:21 PM
also we're talkin bout shitty cars still here no point to flaunt your 330i, its not that nice of a car, its not a porsche its not a ferrari its not even an M3, i denno from your posts i get this supperiority thing overall u have to be better then sumone else or sumthing. Sorry sum yuppie mobile aint gonna cut it. as the ultimate driving machine.

i mean maybe if u were bun boy got sumthing limited production like the C32 or like my friends who got an S4 or M3 u can say on man my cars the best in the world for this or that. 330 is nice car but not the best in class their better choices also if u account price it competes w/ only 2 of the cars the Audi a4 3.0 and the Mercedes C320 sport.

moot point moot topic my friend who wanted to spend 30k cant even afford one. I can just wont ever be swayed cuz i think BMW's suck for the price and are overpriced and underfeatured.
lol

your friends m3 s4? so now you are comparing frenz who have nice vehicles?

sorry if I offended mr. G35 lover...

Oh, and thanks for making the accusation for what I am or how I come out to be, you are sooooooo right on judging someone based on Internet.

Don't let the sensitive side get to you toooo much because this is Internet and 99% percent of the time it's all fun and games.

[wylin]

im just saying seems like yuppie kinda stuff. also no im saying that if u got a car w/ true sporting credentials yes its nice u can say for 60k the M3 is the best sports sedan in its class, or the C32 is the best automatic sports sedan or the S4 the best tuneable one.


actually also S4 is in the same class as the 330i since it costs the same.

actually im not biased to any. Probs just test drive them all. myself when im buyin a car. part of me says go back to my Rotorary roots.

but this topic is for my friend(and mrazntre's) Ed whose buying a car soon and wanted sum imput. my main point is that the topics moot and dont be a monger here in auto forum taking stuff off topic. 330i yeh its a nice car but he cant afford so dont preech it.



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 30 2002, 12:48 PM-->

[amietron]

he wasn't comparing friends' cars. you shouldn't try to flaunt what kind of car you drive if it isn't anything out of the norm. in any single day you may see 20 330i's for 1 s4. then, you can make something of your car.

[johnny]

^ aight sorry mang/ wylin, no need for us to do this again in the future bud :D I guess I kind of got OT there as well as you :P

It's the testosterone, may YW feel the true forms of it among the forums :lol:

[wylin]

its fine but make a new topic for it. cuz my friend ed will be reading this and go huh? wtf?



<!--EDIT|wylin|Aug 30 2002, 12:50 PM-->

[johnny]

Originally posted by amietron@Aug 30 2002, 07:45 PM
he wasn't comparing friends' cars. you shouldn't try to flaunt what kind of car you drive if it isn't anything out of the norm. in any single day you may see 20 330i's for 1 s4. then, you can make something of your car.
um, amie girl

we were simply comparing cars and got OT to the point it was like this car is better then that (opinion battle). Guys do this all the time if you haven;t noticed already :P


btw, what do you mean 330? My civic is da shiet!!!!!!!!!!

[mrazntre]

Ed should stick with his honda nameplate and get himself an RSX.

[johnny]

OT: trying to find a good/decent GSR motor for my civic.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by wylin@Aug 30 2002, 02:21 PM


i mean maybe if u were bun boy got sumthing limited production like the C32 or like my friends who got an S4 or M3 u can say on man my cars the best in the world for this or that. 330 is nice car but not the best in class their better choices also if u account price it competes w/ only 2 of the cars the Audi a4 3.0 and the Mercedes C320 sport.


I didn't know too much about cars. Did my research. I just gave wylin my list, what I wanted, what I expected and he took it from there. He also told me what to expect the price to be, the expected waiting period. blah blah.

Nah I wouldn't flaunt my ride. There's always someone out there faster, stronger, richer than you and with a better car :) . But, like I said, I do appreciate a phat ride.

Yeah for an entry level luxury sports sedan choice between Benz and BMW. I'd go with the Benz.

I kinda liked the G35 and Acura TL Type S when I did my research.
Why not th 3.2TL for your friend, wylin?



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 30 2002, 10:24 PM-->

[kimpossible]

Hey wylin, is there such a thing as an M8? I could have swore that I saw some hot new car that sort of looked like an M3 but cooler. Someone told me it was an M8. When I went back to my dealer I didn't see anything on the lot.

Beamer is my version of bimmer. I freely admit I don't know shit about cars other than I like them really fucking fast. Motorcyles, at least I have a shot there.

[wylin]

Z8 and m5 are closest things to the m3 that the dealers would have

[wylin]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 30 2002, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by wylin@Aug 30 2002, 02:21 PM


i mean maybe if u were bun boy got sumthing limited production like the C32 or like my friends who got an S4 or M3 u can say on man my cars the best in the world for this or that. 330 is nice car but not the best in class their better choices also if u account price it competes w/ only 2 of the cars the Audi a4 3.0 and the Mercedes C320 sport.


I didn't know too much about cars. Did my research. I just gave wylin my list, what I wanted, what I expected and he took it from there. He also told me what to expect the price to be, the expected waiting period. blah blah.

Nah I wouldn't flaunt my ride. There's always someone out there faster, stronger, richer than you and with a better car :) . But, like I said, I do appreciate a phat ride.

Yeah for an entry level luxury sports sedan choice between Benz and BMW. I'd go with the Benz.

I kinda liked the G35 and Acura TL Type S when I did my research.
Why not th 3.2TL for your friend, wylin?
hez considering it especially since we get cl's dirt cheap down there, like my friend payed 29 out the door for a Base TL

[amietron]

OMG, Hapa neichan!! The z8 is a fucking BABE. OMG. OMG. OMG.

[wylin]

Also johny for the 38-42 grand u'd spend on a 330i w/ sport pack, xenons, sunroof and REAL LEATHER.

i'd buy a IS300 stick shift model for 32 grand ish and Slap on a big power adder called the XS engineering turbo kit and have it tuned. for 40 grand range and have a build suspension and driveline to support the 350 Hp it makes and the M3's i'll be rapping on the road!

[johnny]

Hate the IS300, my friends and I all agree it's a wannabe fixed up Honda Accord or something of that sort. No class at all for what it's worth IMO.


If I could go back time I'd have just bought another civic or just another plain Honda and save up for a nice house in Irvine or something... O well, enjoying tyhe ride for the time being until some gold digger decides to bag me.... :lol:

[wylin]

well IS is a honda accord class car in japan if u didnt know it has a different motor the 3SGE BEAMS 200hp 2.0 liter inline 4 that revs to 8000rpm. Same goes for the Euro Accord which competes w/ the 3 series in its european market. Euro accord competes w/ 325i same w/ IS300 for the 40 grand u just spent on the BMW 330i theres the CLK and C320, Audi A4 3.0 Quattro and even the M3 is with in reach.

Also IS300 handles differently then a 3 series based upon what the target market was in japan. IS drifts more and has more oversteer because of a more aggresive limited slip.

class or no class getting smoked by a turbo one sucks esp if ur an E46 m3 or porsche boxster.

To me im not lookin for an image car if i was i'd just for over the same 40k u spent and buy a porsche Boxster 2002 model, M coupe w. 315hp or a Mercedes C320. Both those have alot more class then the asian civic we call the 3-series. not everyone has to have brand name this and that. a label is just a label... also if u noticed the G35 beat the 330 in both the road and track and motortrend small sedan camparos. 2/3 =P

Remember all compact luxo sedans are pretty much the same size as a honda civic and have about the same interior room as a civic too just more power. a good young guy image car is a Mercedes CLK or a Mercedes 2003 E320 just debadge it and ur pimpin'!





<!--EDIT|wylin|Sep 9 2002, 09:56 AM-->

[johnny]

The IS300 still sucks :P and you and I have different taste in cars!


The way I look at the boxster is like looking at an Audi TT, both nothing much in my eyes.

Cars I would get in my 40k range or lower instead of the bmw I got:
S2000
Audi A4
350z
RX-8
93/4 NSX

For a little more I would love to have the E46 M3
or 540i
or AMG32, AMG55(whatever its called) even better! Or the M5!!!!


I grew out of slapping on turbos for a car, if I had an M3 and saw a IS with a fat turbo blow by me I'd laugh and so would all my car enthusiast friends. Call us old but we're gtting tired of the "Fast and Furious" scene and would like to move onto the "bling". :D

[wylin]

that because E46 m3 is slow and well its not really fast and furious w/ my buddies since all the cars are RWD or AWD and ussually sports or sports sedans lets see the shop im ussually at also everyones 24-32 yrs old.

1. 93 Rx7 w. 450@ wheels ran a 10.9 in 1/4 mile
2. 93 Rx7 stock sorta.
3. 95 240sx w/ Sr20det mine
4. 00 Audi S4 w/ 320-340hp
5. 95 240sx SR20det large turbine going in
6. 91 240sx S13 front end and Sr20det

next car for shop their deciding between a R32 GTR or Supra TT

etc...

not really rice boy kits. just quick cars. just car enthusiast ones. Lets see any euro car ever spank the Rx-7 single turbo that i listed 1st =X also most of us the fixed up car is the 2nd car. cept for me bah i needa buy a 2nd daily driver.

1.S2000 is a cool car i was considering one till i realized my Turbo 240sx can smoke them in its current state of tune. i even made a 15k downpayment ready for the S2k and arranged a deal w/ Cerritos based Norm Reeves honda for a Yellow/black 2002 S2k (for msrp 32.7k)
2. A4 is kinda slow
3. 350z i like this car got to drive one recently i like it more and more.
4. i dont think johny u could own this car its a lil too maintence happy same w/ all rotories changing oil 2000-2500 miles, burning apex seals at 60-80k miles, etc.
5.NSX i like that car just its too hard to find a clean one and its ultimately slow compared to turbo cars.

also bout laughing at the IS300 turbo go look at toyotomo's its a 620hp automatic one owned by a guy w/ 11 other cars including ferrari's and porsches. 2 reasons i'd turbo an IS 1 its stealthy 2. that rocks fast 2 door sedan is totally fun and turbo boosted cars is addictive if u can afford it and have the mechanical knowledge to maintain them...which shown by the tire problem u dont! =-X



<!--EDIT|wylin|Sep 9 2002, 11:12 AM-->

[johnny]

the e46 is no way near slow for a naturally aspirated vehicle. Just because a car does not hit 10s doesn't mean it's slow. There are so many factors that make a car than it's quarter mile time or whatever.

Another thing is the S2000 may be slower than your turboed 240 in its so called state of tune, but I think plenty of people including yourself would rather drive the Honda! :P That statement goes the same with the M3....


so when are you expecting the S2000?
The car is very fun to drive, but what held me back from buying one was due to the fact that you have to push it hard near redline to feel its power. Too bad it can't be felt throughout the powerband...

[wylin]

Well its slow to me if it doesnt pull low 14's atleast and handle very well. BTW my car right now is a high 13 sec-low 14sec car and will be a bit faster in few weeks, yay! once we get summore mods done im aiming for a high 12 sec, mid 12 sec car once im done and have been offered to try a Tomei ARMS upgrade turbo kit for cheap...denno tho...we'll see. i driven a 240sx w/ 350hp b4 and its pretty frightening =X.

well that 10sec car is fun it has built everything. suspension motor, interior, stereo, outside is stockish (sleeper baby). Its super clean Rx-7 and most ppl can appreciate rx7 since it rocks.

Well nah i prefer the 240 so do alota ppl cuz its alot stealthier and handles more wickedly then the s2000 thanks to its suspension set up. most real turbo enthusiasts meaning ppl w/ eclipses, wrx, rx7, TT Z, supra TT, etc wont drive Naturally Aspirated Cars like s2k cuz its like u mentioned Torqueless and gutless off the line. I drove it and the Z so far i think Z's alot better cuz it has more power across the power band u got usable power from 2000-redline. versus s2k where it feels like crap under 6000rpm.

im not expecting an s2000 nemore my car tuned right now makes more power down low and a bit more highend right now. I decided i dont need a 2nd sports car and decided to buy sum sort of 4 door sedan in 30-40k range (more then Ed's 26-32k range that i started this topic for) that or buy a house not sure.

turbocharged vesus NA no comparison turbo always feels more fun and is addictive in kicking in the boost at the price of fuel consumption.


Tho i am totally being tempted to buy a Skyline GTR R32 or R33 model from MOTOREX dam u ken flores and marco....who make me wanna buy a GTR!

[johnny]

Originally posted by wylin@Sep 9 2002, 09:41 PM


Tho i am totally being tempted to buy a Skyline GTR R32 or R33 model from MOTOREX dam u ken flores and marco....who make me wanna buy a GTR!
That is so darn tempting..... if I hadn't bought my car yet I'd be nagging you by now to hook it up :D will can't really hook it up since motorex ppl are his friends and being so cocky would piss em off



<!--EDIT|wylin|Sep 9 2002, 03:02 PM-->

[johnny]

so wylin,
i don't remember but what did your friend end up getting? Or is most likely getting?

[wylin]

hez getting an Audi A4 1.8t 5-speed so we can chip it and put sum other crap on it.

225-240hp range he can get w/ chip, intake, and exhaust.

and we get them for 28k out the door w/ HID, sport package, and sunroof.

[deez nuts]

haha I'd get wylin to hook up my car. If I try, I probably blow myself up once I turn the ignition on.