Do we marginalize our own?

[hooligan]

Talking to people and from my own awareness, i am starting to notice that there seems to be a lack of diversity on YW. no not in terms of african americans, euro-americans, or hispanics ... them too, but even in terms of the different ethnicities of asian american pacific islanders.

i noticed that YW is an increasingly chinese and korean -oriented site. not that i think there's an issue with the representation of chinese and koreans, but i have an issue with the lack of represenation of the other aapia ethnicities. hapas are here, but their numbers seem to be dwindling as well, but where are the southeast asians, south asians, and pacific islanders?

post-1965 immigration has brought a surge of southeast asians and poor east asians, where are their voices on yw? filipinos who's issues keep being pushed to the outer edges of AAPI consciousness, while east asian issues always take the forefront. south asians are facing huge amounts of racism thanks to the backlash of 9/11 where is their representation on this site to expose us to what their communities are going through? besides lethalweapon and seanp i can't name off any vietnamese members.

even YW members change their ethnicities like gumby as a tongue-in-cheek kind of joke to the lack of representation of other peoples. where are we dropping the ball as YW board participants in promoting this awareness? are we marginalizing our own?

if we are, i'm guilty as charged.

-ben

[SunWuKong]

yeah i know what you mean. i'd like to see more of non-Chinese and non-Korean Asians around here. i've said this before - i think the name yellowworld itself may make many Southeast Asians and South Asians feel like they don't belong here, because many of them consider themselves brown instead of yellow. that being said, i can understand why there aren't many Japanese members, because there simply aren't that many Japanese Americans when compared to the Chinese American or Filipino American population. and i also don't understand why there aren't more Vietnamese members.

perhaps we need to actively promote more non-Chinese and non-Korean contents in our threads?

[mr. x]

well in general take a look at the media, the few asian who do show up are from the big three

china (whether or not u wanna include taiwan to that is up to you), korea, japan

[SunWuKong]

well in general take a look at the media, the few asian who do show up are from the big three

china (whether or not u wanna include taiwan to that is up to you), korea, japan

yeah but that's no reflection of who would participate on YW.

[mr. x]

yeah but that's no reflection of who would participate on YW.

so did he mean marginalize ywers? cuz other than Teaze i cant think of any SE Asians. and if we have a low turnout thats not exactly our fault...

[kitty]

well we could try an expand the interest base of the site. like starting more threads on topics that affect south asians...

[hooligan]

so did he mean marginalize ywers? cuz other than Teaze i cant think of any SE Asians. and if we have a low turnout thats not exactly our fault...
it's just that we don't have them in our consciousness when we think about AAPI issues. that's the sort of awareness i'm thinking about.

[hooligan]

yeah i know what you mean. i'd like to see more of non-Chinese and non-Korean Asians around here. i've said this before - i think the name yellowworld itself may make many Southeast Asians and South Asians feel like they don't belong here, because many of them consider themselves brown instead of yellow. that being said, i can understand why there aren't many Japanese members, because there simply aren't that many Japanese Americans when compared to the Chinese American or Filipino American population. and i also don't understand why there aren't more Vietnamese members.

perhaps we need to actively promote more non-Chinese and non-Korean contents in our threads?
yeah, hopefully, there are supposed to be a lot of japanese americans, but you don't run into them alot.

[seanp]

wow i actually got noticed

[lethal]

Well, wrt South Asians, the name itself probably does have a deterrent effect. However, if you look at the history of Asian American organizations, most have not typically included South Asians. In fact, for law students, many schools have both an APALSA and a SALSA (Asian Pacific American Law Student Association and South Asian Law Student Association, respectively). After 9/11 m,any Asian organiozations were faced with the issue of providing assistance to groups who they had never worked with before or contemplated representing, namely South Asians, Muslems, and Middle Easterners. That segment of Asian Americans may or may not ever be represented on this site. But there's always a supply and demand issue. We won't really talk about those issues unless we have people here self-interested in them. And currently we don't. I don't think we ever have.

WRT SE Asians (by this I assume you mean Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Indonesia), even those those populations are growing at fast rates does not mean they'll be here. Look at the demographic of people who are regular members. Most are either ABAs or have been here a long time. Most people are around college age or older. So set the minimum age at 18 or so and you have born in what...1985? Add say 5 years or so to include people who came over at a very young age, such as myself. The majority of SE Asian immigration to the US came after 1985. I'd say most of it came in the 90s. I don't have stats to back up those assertions though.

The same issue is true of SE Asian lawyers and why there aren't that many of them yet. I made some points in this post (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showpost.php?p=192147&postcount=17).

[SunWuKong]

so did he mean marginalize ywers? cuz other than Teaze i cant think of any SE Asians. and if we have a low turnout thats not exactly our fault...

to the best of my knowledge...

there's thaite and moschikat who post regularly. there was also another Thai member that posted regularly but i haven't seen him around for a while. and i believe there are other Thai members as well, but they were never very regular. i actually think there are more Thai members than Vietnamese members.

[Tao]

isn't dragonknight a SE asian?

[hooligan]

isn't dragonknight a SE asian?
asian ethnic hapa i think

[mr. x]

i think in general like angryasianman and other asian sites include british asians (pakistanis, indians, etc.) and though they do share similar issues with us i wonder if even they think of themselves in terms of us. i mean yeah at school indians and asian probly get along pretty well (cept the fobs stick with fobs) but yeha.

[moJo]

perhaps we do need to create threads that focus on non-east asian interests and issues. we do have an overwhelming # of east asians. you can tell by how quickly threads on Chinese stuff get jumped on, and i'm guilty of that as well.

sometimes i get so into the threads that are most familiar to me (like chinese-themed threads, for ex) that i forget that YW is also a place to learn about other asian cultures and issues.

[Tao]

perhaps we do need to create threads that focus on non-east asian interests and issues. we do have an overwhelming # of east asians. you can tell by how quickly threads on Chinese stuff get jumped on, and i'm guilty of that as well.

sometimes i get so into the threads that are most familiar to me (like chinese-themed threads, for ex) that i forget that YW is also a place to learn about other asian cultures and issues.
well i don't see the problem with that, it's not like we're excluding them purposely. It's just a vicious cycle...since we don't know many SE asian issues, no SE asians are willing to participate, and therefore no new se asian issues....and so on and so forth.....we just need to get the ball rolling that's all.

[hooligan]

well i don't see the problem with that, it's not like we're excluding them purposely. It's just a vicious cycle...since we don't know many SE asian issues, no SE asians are willing to participate, and therefore no new se asian issues....and so on and so forth.....we just need to get the ball rolling that's all.
oh yeah ...

[teaz0r]

i'm se asian.

[mr. x]

i'm se asian.

so did he mean marginalize ywers? cuz other than Teaze i cant think of any SE Asians. and if we have a low turnout thats not exactly our fault...

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Asian Americans (or overseas Asians, especially if they are looking for some source of identity or pride) seem to have this tendency to call themselves as united into a giant cohesive group when convenient, while trashing or criticizing other Asian ethnic groups when, likewise, it is in their favor. The condescension, whether visible and outward or while whispered in hushed tones, between simply East Asian groups (Japanese, Korean, Chinese or even within Chinese themselves i.e. Beijingers, Shanghainese, Cantonese, Fujianese, Taiwanese etc.) is often painfully obvious and it manifests itself in a variety of different forms including everyday conversation, publications, and of course, xanga's written by superficial uninformed azn people. This is not even to mention the condescension that East Asians feel towards Southeast Asians, and vice versa. Although I have nothing against the uniting of Asian Americans for a common cause, this type of intra-Asian (for lack of better term) conflict for the sake of satisfying foolish pride or to sate insecure souls is such a huge turn-off for me that I avoid most Asian American forums like the plague. The attitudes of many Asian Americans (or even FOB's) online especially never cease to piss me off, even though I know (I hope) that they aren't representative of the attitudes of the vast majority of all young Asian people. Despite the fact that YW has a shortage of SE Asian members (btw why is Vietnam considered to be part of SE Asia? Is it simply by geographical boundary? It must be since most Chinese are as genetically and culturally different from Koreans as they are from Vietnamese), I think that it still does a good job of keeping things civil and keeping bullshit to a minimum unlike other forums that will go without mention.

[Tao]

Asian Americans (or overseas Asians, especially if they are looking for some source of identity or pride) seem to have this tendency to call themselves as united into a giant cohesive group when convenient, while trashing or criticizing other Asian ethnic groups when, likewise, it is in their favor. The condescension, whether visible and outward or while whispered in hushed tones, between simply East Asian groups (Japanese, Korean, Chinese or even within Chinese themselves i.e. Beijingers, Shanghainese, Cantonese, Fujianese, Taiwanese etc.) is often painfully obvious and it manifests itself in a variety of different forms including everyday conversation, publications, and of course, xanga's written by superficial uninformed azn people. This is not even to mention the condescension that East Asians feel towards Southeast Asians, and vice versa. Although I have nothing against the uniting of Asian Americans for a common cause, this type of intra-Asian (for lack of better term) conflict for the sake of satisfying foolish pride or to sate insecure souls is such a huge turn-off for me that I avoid most Asian American forums like the plague. The attitudes of many Asian Americans (or even FOB's) online especially never cease to piss me off, even though I know (I hope) that they aren't representative of the attitudes of the vast majority of all young Asian people. Despite the fact that YW has a shortage of SE Asian members (btw why is Vietnam considered to be part of SE Asia? Is it simply by geographical boundary? It must be since most Chinese are as genetically and culturally different from Koreans as they are from Vietnamese), I think that it still does a good job of keeping things civil and keeping bullshit to a minimum unlike other forums that will go without mention.
so you don't see a possiblity of working together?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

so you don't see a possiblity of working together?

Oh no, I definitely see the possibility. I've seen it happen many times actually. I was just bitching about the stuff that pisses me off regarding the process towards uniting as an Asian American cohesive unit in relation to human nature and people trying to find themselves and their place and shit. It's just me venting my frustration ^^ How can you claim any sort of 'Asian pride' while trashing or viewing other Asian people as your unequal or as inferior (like so many), how can you claim to fight for a common cause if you see yourself or your group of people as more important than the other groups you've 'united' with? Seriously.

[Kuchana]

As someone pointed out earlier, maybe we should promote this site. I've noticed that there's a lot of people that post on yw's lj site yet they don't post here. Maybe some initiative could help there as well?

[mr. x]

hmm, gumby the worst i see on xanga or whathaveu is probly "I WuV u AzNBaByGrL we go K-clubbin tonight, Corea rep!"

[Blue dice]

Oh no, I definitely see the possibility. I've seen it happen many times actually. I was just bitching about the stuff that pisses me off regarding the process towards uniting as an Asian American cohesive unit in relation to human nature and people trying to find themselves and their place and shit. It's just me venting my frustration ^^ How can you claim any sort of 'Asian pride' while trashing or viewing other Asian people as your unequal or as inferior (like so many), how can you claim to fight for a common cause if you see yourself or your group of people as more important than the other groups you've 'united' with? Seriously.
I have to agree with this 100%. As Asians we often categorize ourselves into specific asian ethnic cliques all too often. The British used these types of inter ethnic rivalries to divide and conquer people. It's the same way in politics really, an asian-american movement is impossible unless asians drop the asian vs asian nonsense. You can't have 10 different "asian-american" groups claiming filipino awareness, chinese awareness, etc.. it becomes too fragmented and unfocused.

[hooligan]

Asian Americans (or overseas Asians, especially if they are looking for some source of identity or pride) seem to have this tendency to call themselves as united into a giant cohesive group when convenient, while trashing or criticizing other Asian ethnic groups when, likewise, it is in their favor. The condescension, whether visible and outward or while whispered in hushed tones, between simply East Asian groups (Japanese, Korean, Chinese or even within Chinese themselves i.e. Beijingers, Shanghainese, Cantonese, Fujianese, Taiwanese etc.) is often painfully obvious and it manifests itself in a variety of different forms including everyday conversation, publications, and of course, xanga's written by superficial uninformed azn people. This is not even to mention the condescension that East Asians feel towards Southeast Asians, and vice versa. Although I have nothing against the uniting of Asian Americans for a common cause, this type of intra-Asian (for lack of better term) conflict for the sake of satisfying foolish pride or to sate insecure souls is such a huge turn-off for me that I avoid most Asian American forums like the plague. The attitudes of many Asian Americans (or even FOB's) online especially never cease to piss me off, even though I know (I hope) that they aren't representative of the attitudes of the vast majority of all young Asian people. Despite the fact that YW has a shortage of SE Asian members (btw why is Vietnam considered to be part of SE Asia? Is it simply by geographical boundary? It must be since most Chinese are as genetically and culturally different from Koreans as they are from Vietnamese), I think that it still does a good job of keeping things civil and keeping bullshit to a minimum unlike other forums that will go without mention.
YW does do a GREAT job and keeping everything civil, which is why i participate on this forum. Vietnamese people are considered South East Asians, South East Asians have a slightly different story than most East Asians and wanted their own group in order to shed light and focus on their own unique issues.

it's not just FOB's it's just that people are really socially unaware of the histories of AAPIs and how much we actually have in common. what i should have specified that there might be two problems with YW that can be addressed, one to bring up issues that deal with other AAPIs and get other AAPIs involved.

i think that the more this site brings up issues from the indo-american community, south east asian american, or pacific islander american communities, the more likely that other peoples will participate. (the again a lot of people are attracted by cute guys/girls too). :D

but, as to how to find these issues, that's a whole 'nother story. i wouldn't know where to begin to look. especially with indo-american topics of interest.

[hooligan]

so you don't see a possiblity of working together?
it's also the idea that we have to 'elp our own communities before we can help others.

[SunWuKong]

btw why is Vietnam considered to be part of SE Asia? Is it simply by geographical boundary? It must be since most Chinese are as genetically and culturally different from Koreans as they are from Vietnamese

i am not sure about this myself, actually. culturally and genetically, i think Vietnamese people are probably culturally closer to Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans, than the rest of Southeast Asia - except for Singapore probably. i've just been considering them Southeast Asian because Vietnam is part of ASEAN.

can the Vietnamese members chime in on this?

[teaz0r]

so did he mean marginalize ywers? cuz other than Teaze i cant think of any SE Asians. and if we have a low turnout thats not exactly our fault...

moschikat. is se asian.
so is apophis.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

i am not sure about this myself, actually. culturally and genetically, i think Vietnamese people are probably culturally closer to Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans, than the rest of Southeast Asia - except for Singapore probably. i've just been considering them Southeast Asian because Vietnam is part of ASEAN.

can the Vietnamese members chime in on this?

That's what I thought, even though many Vietnamese may have Austronesian or some other type of native blood, but that can be said for many East Asians as well, especially Cantonese, Japanese, and Taiwanese. But this is just talking about genetics. I think culturally speaking, Vietnamese culture is definitely closer to other East Asian cultures.

[lethal]

i am not sure about this myself, actually. culturally and genetically, i think Vietnamese people are probably culturally closer to Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans, than the rest of Southeast Asia - except for Singapore probably. i've just been considering them Southeast Asian because Vietnam is part of ASEAN.

can the Vietnamese members chime in on this?

Vietnam is part of ASEAN. I think it is culturally closer to China, but not necessarily Japan and Korea. However, it is geographically part of SE Asia. As far as an American perspective would go, Vietnam is part of the SE Asian immigration pattern of the early 80s which was a result of war. For that reason, the Vietnamese in America would have more in common with Laosians and Cambodians than with the Chinese (esp HK and Taiwan people) who came over with wealth and education.

[hooligan]

I have to agree with this 100%. As Asians we often categorize ourselves into specific asian ethnic cliques all too often. The British used these types of inter ethnic rivalries to divide and conquer people. It's the same way in politics really, an asian-american movement is impossible unless asians drop the asian vs asian nonsense. You can't have 10 different "asian-american" groups claiming filipino awareness, chinese awareness, etc.. it becomes too fragmented and unfocused.
it happens at parties here too. the movements are way too unfocused too. maybe that's why before i studied asian american studies i didn't think there were politically oriented aapis.

[hooligan]

Vietnam is part of ASEAN. I think it is culturally closer to China, but not necessarily Japan and Korea. However, it is geographically part of SE Asia. As far as an American perspective would go, Vietnam is part of the SE Asian immigration pattern of the early 80s which was a result of war. For that reason, the Vietnamese in America would have more in common with Laosians and Cambodians than with the Chinese (esp HK and Taiwan people) who came over with wealth and education.
yeah, they/we categorize AAPIs based on their patterns of immigration. so vietnamese peoples are considered southeast asians in a very euro-centric view of asians.

[lethal]

yeah, they/we categorize AAPIs based on their patterns of immigration. so vietnamese peoples are considered southeast asians in a very euro-centric view of asians.

True, at least the Americancentric view of Asian Americans, however, the Vietnamese government itself considers Vietnam as part of SE Asia and East Asia.

[VV o n g B a]

Vietnam is part of ASEAN. I think it is culturally closer to China, but not necessarily Japan and Korea. However, it is geographically part of SE Asia. As far as an American perspective would go, Vietnam is part of the SE Asian immigration pattern of the early 80s which was a result of war. For that reason, the Vietnamese in America would have more in common with Laosians and Cambodians than with the Chinese (esp HK and Taiwan people) who came over with wealth and education.
the absence of a larger se asian population on yw may indicate something akin to a class war (but war is prolly too strong a word). in the same way that black/white issues don't just involve skin color or culture but also economics/education, east asians and se asians, as a group, are simply on two different levels in econ/education.

w/o an understanding of what its like to live in a poorer community (and i assume most east asians don't), how can we fight for them? moreover how can we make a connection in the first place? i've generally found that i don't like talking to less educated ppl of any race/ethnicity. bear in mind i'm not saying se asians are less intelligent, just less educated. and thats changing too i'm sure because i've been seeing groups of highly educated se asians along w/ the less educated, but certainly the less educated are more numerous. and i really don't enjoy conversations w/ those ppl b/c we have just about nothing in common besides something like clubbing. the only time i see this changing is when se asian median income and education rise to parity w/ east asians. they will prolly accomplish the rise w/o much east asian help and for that maybe there will be a long lasting disconnect between the two groups.

[Ron]

Even though I'm hapa, only other hapas can tell (Even Asians think I'm Asian :tongue: ). I'll change my ethnicity from "Mixed Asian" to "Thai" to help out. Anyway, I can vouch that I'm closely connected with Thai relatives and the country, and can start some topics. As of now, there are only three countries that are culturally and ethnically SE Asian, and they are Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia. Malaysia/Indo/PI have more native features in their complexion/culture(note* Culture before invaders/colonists) and are classified mainly as Asian Pacific Islanders rather than SE Asians.

Take the culture switch test. For example, if you took a Vietnamese child and raised them in a Chinese environment (lets say Beijing) and leading them to believe that they're also Chinese, the Vietnamese child will have a lot easier time aesthetically blending into Chinese culture than a Thai/Laos/Cambodian child of a different appearance (darker complexion) would. Please take into account that the Hmong are not ethnically Laotians. Hmong and Laotians are of different cultures and appearance. There are some Hmong in Thailand who are just as Hmong as Hmong who came from Laos.

Therefore, take a look at these facts. The populations of Thailand/Laos/Cambodia are about a combined 80 million people. The populations of China/Korea (North and South)/Japan/Taiwan/Vietnam/Singapore (Singaporeans are mainly ethnically Chinese) are a combined are a staggering 1.15-1.35 billion people. And look at the immigration rates. Even if Thai/Laos/Cambodian people immigrated at 2 times the rate of East Asians, there wouldn't be as much of them here for a long time. Thais are barely immigrating at all, Laotians aren't, and Cambodians aren't. Those countries don't have a lot of people living in the US to form a sizable AA voice. Also, those countries aren't internet connected (I know Vietnam isn't, but they have a lot of people in the US), except for Thailand, which is getting close. Most Asian people don't go to Asian American sites like these because Asian life and political views with an Asian majority are already expressed in their lives, why would they want to get involved in AA issues?

Please note, here's an analogy. Thailand is to Cambodia as China is to Vietnam. If you notice, the Thais and Khmer look almost the same a lot of the times. So do the Chinese and Vietnamese.

Other than that, this is all opinion. So please feel free to contribute! :biggrin:

[hooligan]

the absence of a larger se asian population on yw may indicate something akin to a class war (but war is prolly too strong a word). in the same way that black/white issues don't just involve skin color or culture but also economics/education, east asians and se asians, as a group, are simply on two different levels in econ/education.

w/o an understanding of what its like to live in a poorer community (and i assume most east asians don't), how can we fight for them? moreover how can we make a connection in the first place? i've generally found that i don't like talking to less educated ppl of any race/ethnicity. bear in mind i'm not saying se asians are less intelligent, just less educated. and thats changing too i'm sure because i've been seeing groups of highly educated se asians along w/ the less educated, but certainly the less educated are more numerous. and i really don't enjoy conversations w/ those ppl b/c we have just about nothing in common besides something like clubbing. the only time i see this changing is when se asian median income and education rise to parity w/ east asians. they will prolly accomplish the rise w/o much east asian help and for that maybe there will be a long lasting disconnect between the two groups.
i come from a working class background, both of my parents have worked/work in a labour related career. coming from an east asian background, i can say that a lot of chinese peoples have settled in really well. not all of them, mind you, but alot of chinese have made it into the middle class.

why don't we as east asians help out se asians, south asians, or pacific islanders? i think a lot of incohesiveness that happens between our communities comes from past histories in asia. why don't we change now? give YW a bigger focus?

[VV o n g B a]

i come from a working class background, both of my parents have worked/work in a labour related career. coming from an east asian background, i can say that a lot of chinese peoples have settled in really well. not all of them, mind you, but alot of chinese have made it into the middle class.

why don't we as east asians help out se asians, south asians, or pacific islanders? i think a lot of incohesiveness that happens between our communities comes from past histories in asia. why don't we change now? give YW a bigger focus?
kids of east asian working class parents will still have an easier time reaching middle class if they have many friends and rolemodels who have done so. they'll have more ppl who can give the advice thats needed or to support them when they're lost.

i'm certainly not opposed to trying however. as a suggestion, since most of the board is east asian, why don't we try to reach out to vietnamese first? the consensus is that vietnamese are culturally the closest ethnicity to east asians, and it makes sense that we would have an easier time understanding their issues. they are also prolly the most populous other asian ethnicity. or if not the vietnamese, then thai since we've got several thai members here. i say that we should focus on a certain ethnicity because it'd be easier to keep track of what issues/history belong to what ethnicity that way. we learn bit by bit and not by flood. when the board feels comfortable in their new found knowledge we pick another ethnicity to reach out to.

or... instead of the social route, we could go the economic route and try bringing south asians in first. but that has its own problems b/c of "yellow"world and the fact that we don't have south asian posters really anymore.

[lethal]

Well...I can't complain that we ignore SE Asian issues.

We've talked about the Vietnamese woman who was killed by police in SJ and the Vietnamese flag issues in LA and Virginia. We've talked about child prostitution and human trafficing in Cambodia. Adoptions out of Cambodia in comparison to China. Issues regarding Thailand. If there's more, I think people bring them up when they arise. I honestly don't think we're lacking in SE Asian perspective.

South Asia and the Middle East and Central Asia...that's a whole different issue altogether.

[tommyhtown]

Well...I can't complain that we ignore SE Asian issues.

We've talked about the Vietnamese woman who was killed by police in SJ and the Vietnamese flag issues in LA and Virginia. We've talked about child prostitution and human trafficing in Cambodia. Adoptions out of Cambodia in comparison to China. Issues regarding Thailand. If there's more, I think people bring them up when they arise. I honestly don't think we're lacking in SE Asian perspective.

South Asia and the Middle East and Central Asia...that's a whole different issue altogether.

I concurred that YWers don't ignore SE Asian issues. I also think there are quite a few SE Asians participating here. It just that we (yes, I am Thai) never typically come out and say 'I am Thai or I am Vietnamese.' Still, if you pay enough attention then you can easily figure out people's ethinc backgroud here.

As far as South Asian members, I can only recall one guy from Houston who used to participate or rather have an issue on YW motto particularly on the word 'Asian' where the forum members, true to his words, rarely discuss South Asians issue.

[tommyhtown]

Take the culture switch test. For example, if you took a Vietnamese child and raised them in a Chinese environment (lets say Beijing) and leading them to believe that they're also Chinese, the Vietnamese child will have a lot easier time aesthetically blending into Chinese culture than a Thai/Laos/Cambodian child of a different appearance (darker complexion) would. Please take into account that the Hmong are not ethnically Laotians. Hmong and Laotians are of different cultures and appearance. There are some Hmong in Thailand who are just as Hmong as Hmong who came from Laos.


Appearance wise, I think I have to disagree with your take on how a Thai person would look like. I am Thai, but people mistook me for a Chinese or a Vietnamese all the time especially at a Chinese or Vietnamese restaurant. Granted, my dad is a Thai-Born-Chinese, and my mom is Thai. But Thai-Chinese couples are a norm in Thailand. Shoot, half of the people in Bangkok look more like Chinese than Thai anyway.

[>:^|]

Pacific Islanders are starting to see themselves as discrete from Asian Americans, and there is an academic movement towards the creation of Pacific Island studies as opposed to AAPI studies.

This problem of community is a difficult one, because I think community is largely self-defined. Marginalization can thus be both conscious and unconscious. But bringing the topic up is a good way to make us aware.

Thanks, hooligan.

[>:^|]

Appearance wise, I think I have to disagree with your take on how a Thai person would look like.

I've been spoken to in about just every Asian language imaginable by people who assumed that I shared their ethnic heritage.

[SunWuKong]

Appearance wise, I think I have to disagree with your take on how a Thai person would look like. I am Thai, but people mistook me for a Chinese or a Vietnamese all the time especially at a Chinese or Vietnamese restaurant. Granted, my dad is a Thai-Born-Chinese, and my mom is Thai. But Thai-Chinese couples are a norm in Thailand. Shoot, half of the people in Bangkok look more like Chinese than Thai anyway.

yeah, i've seen plenty of Thai people that can pass for Chinese.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

i am not sure about this myself, actually. culturally and genetically, i think Vietnamese people are probably culturally closer to Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans, than the rest of Southeast Asia - except for Singapore probably. i've just been considering them Southeast Asian because Vietnam is part of ASEAN.
Well, the thing is, to a lot greater extent than Japan and Korea, I think the Vietnamese want to actively resist Chinese influence (since, after all, they were a Chinese colony for so long), so people will naturally start to look elsewhere for philosophical ideas, perspectives on life, etc. with which they can agree and which affirm and develop what they already believe. (Weirdly enough, in an international survey of values like religion, family relation, etc., Vietnam ended up closest to ... Poland. Oh yeah, in a separate item, they reported the highest proportion of people claiming to have had a one night stand).

Muslim countries like Malaysia and Indonesia responding to similar pressures of course had the dar Al Islam to look to. Not sure what Vietnam would find as an equivalent. Personally I think India could play a big role as a cultural exporter (not just pop culture, but more basic forms of social organization as well) to countries in SE Asia who suffer from historical nervousness about making their societies "more Chinese", but right now that seems kinda unlikely.

[Ron]

Yes, I may be misguided sometimes. Anthropology is largely opinion based, too! :tongue:

Anyway, I was more talking about 100% Thais from Central/North/Northeast Thailand. That was a mistake on my part, as those are the Thai people I'm mostly involved with when I visit relatives/live in Thailand during summers/months at a time. I agree that many Thai can pass for Chinese. Amazingly, as a hapa, I look Chinese enough to pass for Chinese, even to a good number of Chinese AAs (most Asian born Asians, whether living in Asia or not, can tell the difference though). Maybe that's my own perception, so we'll see. We should make a thread where we all post our pictures, and each of us says what ethnicity we most closely resemble. I'd like to see the results! Anyway, I was mostly meaning that Thai/Laos/Cambodia takes in a lot of culture from India (mainly Buddhism, which yes, did originate in India).

I.E., here's the type of Thai person that I was talking about. I found this pic using Google.

http://www.thai-la.com/gallery/2000-02-thai-trip/images/DSC00854.jpg

[Mr.Lum]

I dont think Asians can margionalize Pacific Islanders because they are not related.

[SunWuKong]

Well, the thing is, to a lot greater extent than Japan and Korea, I think the Vietnamese want to actively resist Chinese influence (since, after all, they were a Chinese colony for so long), so people will naturally start to look elsewhere for philosophical ideas, perspectives on life, etc. with which they can agree and which affirm and develop what they already believe. (Weirdly enough, in an international survey of values like religion, family relation, etc., Vietnam ended up closest to ... Poland. Oh yeah, in a separate item, they reported the highest proportion of people claiming to have had a one night stand).

maybe somebody fucked up the survey and interviewed a bunch of prostitutes.

Muslim countries like Malaysia and Indonesia responding to similar pressures of course had the dar Al Islam to look to. Not sure what Vietnam would find as an equivalent. Personally I think India could play a big role as a cultural exporter (not just pop culture, but more basic forms of social organization as well) to countries in SE Asia who suffer from historical nervousness about making their societies "more Chinese", but right now that seems kinda unlikely.

a Vietnamese friend told me that Indian movies used to be the most popular movies in Vietnam until Hong Kong movies took over the lead sometime in the 80s.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I dont think Asians can margionalize Pacific Islanders because they are not related.

I disagree...that's like saying Chinese people can't marginalize Koreans cause Chinese and Korean people are also different. As long as there are people out there who group Asians and PI's together, there will always be potential for unfair treatment and marginalization/neglect while pushing for one's own interests/cause.

[Mr.Lum]

no its not like China and Korea at all. for one, theyer both Asian. PI, NOT ASIAN. not geographicaly, culturaly at all.

[SunWuKong]

I dont think Asians can margionalize Pacific Islanders because they are not related.

Asian people can marginalise PIs if they want to be grouped together with PIs, yet ignore their interests.

that's sort of like how blacks and Hispanics count Asian people in their numbers when it's convenient to them, but ignore them when their interests are opposed to that of Asian people's interests. in that way, Asian people get marginalised by blacks and Hispanics, whose demographics popularly define what the term "minority" applies to.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

no its not like China and Korea at all. for one, theyer both Asian. PI, NOT ASIAN. not geographicaly, culturaly at all.

That doesn't matter...also considering this thread is about whether or not we claim to be in alliance with certain groups while completely ignoring their needs. Whether you see yourself as with somebody or not, it won't matter if they have the power and motivation to include you (unwillingly) and speak for you. How does it make any difference if it's between Chinese and Koreans and Chinese and a Pacific Islander group if activists group everyone under the same umbrella?

[Mr.Lum]

^thats about right. Asians keep tryig to make PIs asians and end up 1)hurting the community and 2) bugging the hell out of Islanders.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

^thats about right. Asians keep tryig to make PIs asians and end up 1)hurting the community and 2) bugging the hell out of Islanders.

So is that not marginalization?

[Mr.Lum]

That doesn't matter...also considering this thread is about whether or not we claim to be in alliance with certain groups while completely ignoring their needs. Whether you see yourself as with somebody or not, it won't matter if they have the power and motivation to include you (unwillingly) and speak for you

and its ignroant because Asians have no idea what they are talking about when they talk about our issues. they sound like theyer full of shit and just need an excuse not to be "model minorities".

[SunWuKong]

^thats about right. Asians keep tryig to make PIs asians and end up 1)hurting the community and 2) bugging the hell out of Islanders.

blacks keep trying to put Asians under the umbrella term of "minority" and it ends up 1) hurting my feelings :frown: :frown: :frown: and 2) bugging the hell out of me.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

and its ignroant because Asians have no idea what they are talking about when they talk about our issues. they sound like theyer full of shit and just need an excuse not to be "model minorities".

So this ignoring of interests while claiming to be under the AsianPI umbrella, is that not marginalization? Simply responding to your statement of how 'Asians can't marginalize PI's because Asians and PI's are unrelated culturally and ethnically'.

[SunWuKong]

and its ignroant because Asians have no idea what they are talking about when they talk about our issues. they sound like theyer full of shit and just need an excuse not to be "model minorities".

it's amazing how you can substitute the word Asians with blacks and then the words Pacific Islanders with Asians and it would still hold true.

[Mr.Lum]

So is that not marginalization?

its "margianalization" because Asians always say "theyer asians too" but then do nothing to help us. Asian my brown ass. asian when they want to try to not be "white" minorities. asian when they need an excuse to get money.

BUT, you really cannot margianalize because youre not PI and PIs arent asian. thats like saying blacks can margianalize whites.
PS that was to SWK.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

its "margianalization" because Asians always say "theyer asians too" but then do nothing to help us. Asian my brown ass. asian when they want to try to not be "white" minorities. asian when they need an excuse to get money.

BUT, you really cannot margianalize because youre not PI and PIs arent asian. thats like saying blacks can margianalize whites.
PS that was to SWK.

So basically in your 1st paragraph, you say it is marginalization, but in your 2nd paragraph...technically it's not.....

[Mr.Lum]

So this ignoring of interests while claiming to be under the AsianPI umbrella, is that not marginalization? Simply responding to your statement of how 'Asians can't marginalize PI's because Asians and PI's are unrelated culturally and ethnically'.

you can only margianalize your self. you cant margianalize PIs anymore because we are a separate community(and have been). Asians just keep klinging onto the Nixonian terms.

[SunWuKong]

BUT, you really cannot margianalize because youre not PI and PIs arent asian. thats like saying blacks can margianalize whites.
PS that was to SWK.

no but Asians can marginalise PIs when they try to identify themselves as APIs just the same as when black activist groups advocate something in the name of all minorities, when the certain issues may not be in the best interests of Asian pepole.

[Mr.Lum]

So basically in your 1st paragraph, you say it is marginalization, but in your 2nd paragraph...technically it's not.....

notice the quotes. I dont think its margianalization. I think its blatant exploitation.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

you can only margianalize your self. you cant margianalize PIs anymore because we are a separate community(and have been). Asians just keep klinging onto the Nixonian terms.

In that case, how would I be able to marginalize anybody that wasn't...um...me? I'm different from other Chinese. Etc. Etc. Where do you draw the line? So if I get up on stage one day and do my Long Duk Dong impression in front of the U.S. public, I can say 'oh I'm only marginalizing and fucking over myself and my image, not anybody else's'? That's just irresponsible. You have to think about who else the public groups you together with. In this case, if people think Asians are associated or similar to PI's, then PI's will be affected.

[SunWuKong]

you can only margianalize your self. you cant margianalize PIs anymore because we are a separate community(and have been). Asians just keep klinging onto the Nixonian terms.

yeah and a lot of blacks keep thinking that Asians and blacks have the same issues.

[Mr.Lum]

no but Asians can marginalise PIs when they try to identify themselves as APIs just the same as when black activist groups advocate something in the name of all minorities, when the certain issues may not be in the best interests of Asian pepole.

in the past asians could margianalize PIs. present day, no. the only people who use that are Asians. the government doesnt even use it. seems like everyone but Asians seem to know PIS ARE NOT ASIANS.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

notice the quotes. I dont think its margianalization. I think its blatant exploitation.

its "margianalization" because Asians always say "theyer asians too" but then do nothing to help us. Asian my brown ass. asian when they want to try to not be "white" minorities. asian when they need an excuse to get money.

Here's what you said....I didn't really get the feeling that you were objecting to usage of the word in my example.

[SunWuKong]

right, because we've made it in america haven't we? :rolleyes:

love,
prof. frink


just about as much as PIs have made it in America, baby.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

seems like everyone but Asians seem to know PIS ARE NOT ASIANS.
While I definitely think this is false, taking what you said into consideration in this case you have nothing to worry about, since the people (non-Asians) Asian activists preach to can understand the difference, and that's all that matters. The problem is that many people still group Asians and PI's together, whether you or I like it or not, and it DOES affect us, and it does put us in potential positions for marginalizing each other.

[SunWuKong]

in the past asians could margianalize PIs. present day, no. the only people who use that are Asians. the government doesnt even use it. seems like everyone but Asians seem to know PIS ARE NOT ASIANS.


riiiiiight... uh huh... sure... (http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/race/api.html)

[Mr.Lum]

In that case, how would I be able to marginalize anybody that wasn't...um...me? I'm different from other Chinese. Etc. Etc. Where do you draw the line? So if I get up on stage one day and do my Long Duk Dong impression in front of the U.S. public, I can say 'oh I'm only marginalizing and fucking over myself and my image, not anybody else's'? That's just irresponsible. You have to think about who else the public groups you together with. In this case, if people think Asians are associated or similar to PI's, then PI's will be affected.

when I say "yourself" I am refering to your community. you cant margianalize blacks. you cant margianalize PIs. PIs could margianalize Hawai'ians or Samoans or Tongans, but not Asians. and the same is true the other way around.


Here's what you said....I didn't really get the feeling that you were objecting to usage of the word in my example.

did you see the ""?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

when I say "yourself" I am refering to your community. you cant margianalize blacks. you cant margianalize PIs. PIs could margianalize Hawai'ians or Samoans or Tongans, but not Asians. and the same is true the other way around.



did you see the ""?

See my previous post and also SWK's link.

[SunWuKong]

when I say "yourself" I am refering to your community. you cant margianalize blacks. you cant margianalize PIs. PIs could margianalize Hawai'ians or Samoans or Tongans, but not Asians. and the same is true the other way around.

um. according to your logic, white people can't marginalise anybody because they're not Asian, black, Hispanic, PI, Native American, etc etc. are you sure this is what you're trying to say?

[Mr.Lum]

riiiiiight... uh huh... sure... (http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/race/api.html)
numbers are separate. "population" is plural.



just about as much as PIs have made it in America, baby.

not realy.

While I definitely think this is false, taking what you said into consideration in this case you have nothing to worry about, since the people (non-Asians) Asian activists preach to can understand the difference, and that's all that matters.

if a Polynesian American gets up and talks no one is going to take him for an asian. if I got up at an event and talked about issues facing the PI community, it would be legit and people would know "these are not asians these are polynesians" if you got up people would be like "what the fuck is this?" Asians dont get that. its offensive and it makes them look stupid when they try to make PIs asian.

[Mr.Lum]

um. according to your logic, white people can't marginalise anybody because they're not Asian, black, Hispanic, PI, Native American, etc etc. are you sure this is what you're trying to say?

you cant margianalize someone out side your comminity. they are saying "margianalizing our own" PIs are not asian. not margianalizeing their own.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

if a Polynesian American gets up and talks no one is going to take him for an asian. if I got up at an event and talked about issues facing the PI community, it would be legit and people would know "these are not asians these are polynesians" if you got up people would be like "what the fuck is this?" Asians dont get that. its offensive and it makes them look stupid when they try to make PIs asian.

Well maybe our experiences are just different, because I know plenty of non-Asian non-PI people who still group Asians and PI's together, and that's why Asians and PI's can marginalize each other. Do you live in Hawaii? Maybe people are more aware of cultural differences there, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

you cant margianalize someone out side your comminity. they are saying "margianalizing our own" PIs are not asian. not margianalizeing their own.

Like I said. In that case according to you, Chinese can't marginalize Koreans in the U.S. through their actions. But you may argue, 'yea they can, it's different, cause they're both Asian, PI's are not Asian'. Whether or not Chinese see Koreans as 'their own' and vice versa is dependent upon the individual is it not? So ultimately it depends on how others see you and how others group you. The very fact that you are complaining about Asians claiming PI's as part of their group and then going on to campaign for selfish purposes is proof of possible marginalization.

[Mr.Lum]

I do not. I live in Connecticut. and when I tell people I am Polynesian, they say "I thought they were asians" "nope" "oh" unless its Asian people, they they want to be all "no, youre not Asian" well, no shit! Im POLYNESIAN.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I do not. I live in Connecticut. and when I tell people I am Polynesian, they say "I thought they were asians" "nope" "oh" unless its Asian people, they they want to be all "no, youre not Asian" well, no shit! Im POLYNESIAN.

So you had to tell them this, right? My point exactly.

[SunWuKong]

numbers are separate. "population" is plural.

do you mean the part where it says "The Asian and Pacific Islander Population in the United States", or the part where a form lists Asian ethnicities and PI ethnicities in the same place?

hey, you don't have to convince me that Asians and PIs are different. it's the government you have to convince.

want more examples? here's another (http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/asianamerican/).


not realy.

exactly my point. thanks.



if a Polynesian American gets up and talks no one is going to take him for an asian. if I got up at an event and talked about issues facing the PI community, it would be legit and people would know "these are not asians these are polynesians" if you got up people would be like "what the fuck is this?" Asians dont get that. its offensive and it makes them look stupid when they try to make PIs asian.

there may be people that would take him as an "Asian Pacific Islander American". (what a mouthful.)

[SunWuKong]

you cant margianalize someone out side your comminity. they are saying "margianalizing our own" PIs are not asian. not margianalizeing their own.

right. so according to your logic, whites cannot marginalise anybody but whites because whites are the only people in the white community.

[BeTheReds]

I do not. I live in Connecticut. and when I tell people I am Polynesian, they say "I thought they were asians" "nope" "oh" unless its Asian people, they they want to be all "no, youre not Asian" well, no shit! Im POLYNESIAN.


It's all relative to how others see PIs and Asians, not only how they see each other and themselves.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

i think we need to understand where mr. lum is coming from and realize the ills of our "own community", whatever that is. it is no secret that asians have been touting the slogan 'api' but whenever issues were addressed or discussed, it solely concerned east asians and took out of the loop filipinos, asian indians, polynesians, etc. its a hypocrisy on the asian american community, and one that i find still occurs today. i think he was also trying to highlight certain intraracial power structures, which is necessary in a black/white american discourse.

love,
prof. frink

Well nobody denied or trivialized his concerns (at least i didn't). I was just objecting to how he was saying that Asians could not marginalize PI's simply because PI's are culturally or ethnically separate (a point he obviously feels very passionate about).

[Craig]

Damn, it's great to know whites can't marginalize non-whites in America. I need to rush out and tell all my Asian, Black, and Mexican friends and associates that they are delusional.

[SunWuKong]

i think we need to understand where mr. lum is coming from and realize the ills of our "own community", whatever that is. it is no secret that asians have been touting the slogan 'api' but that whenever issues were addressed or discussed, it solely concerned east asians and took out of the loop filipinos, asian indians, polynesians, etc. its a hypocrisy on the asian american community, and one that i find still occurs today. i think he was also trying to highlight certain intraracial power structures, which is necessary in a black/white american discourse.

love,
prof. frink

i agree with you 100%. that's why some Asian American groups need to think more carefully before casually throwing its weight behind black activist groups and individuals, and black activist groups and individuals need to either give more of a damn about Asian Americans or leave us alone altogether.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

oops, let me reiterate: so if the community of PI's are one that is completely separate as far as geography, politics, culture, history, and society goes (which is wholly legitimate) doesn't that, along with a intraracial heirarchy (where unfortunately, east asian would be "above" PI's) further prove that asians can marginalize PI's?

love,
prof. frink

No because as long as there are people out there who think that Asians and PI's are still one group, marginalization will always be possible, if not probable.

For instance, if there weren't ignorant people out there who grouped Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese together, then a Chinese guy making a fool out of himself on stage would only serve to dump crap on other Chinese guys and their image (well ideally it would only dump crap on that guy's image but hey people generalize and stereotype), but since people are like 'oh, Chinese! that means Japanese and Korean too!', you can see how the ripples fan out a lot more than one would initially think.

[Mr.Lum]

do you mean the part where it says "The Asian and Pacific Islander Population in the United States", or the part where a form lists Asian ethnicities and PI ethnicities in the same place?

hey, you don't have to convince me that Asians and PIs are different. it's the government you have to convince.

want more examples? here's another (http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/asianamerican/).




exactly my point. thanks.





there may be people that would take him as an "Asian Pacific Islander American". (what a mouthful.)

1)
Asian and Pacific Islander Populations

copied and pasted from the header of that page.
December 2001: The Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander Population: 2000 [PDF 480k]

copied from that page

if you look at the page, the Asian and Pacific Islander populatons are listed separate:

Asian
Chinese
Filipino
Japanese
Asian Indian
Korean
Vietnamese
Cambodian
Hmong
Laotian
Thai
Other Asian

Pacific Islander
Polynesian
Hawaiian
Samoan
Tongan
Other Polynesian
Micronesian
Guamanian
Other Micronesian
Pacific Islander, not specified

and:
We the Americans Series
Asians [PDF]
Pacific Islander [PDF]

these are profiles of separate populations. the second one is very good. first on, I have not read.

Census Advisory Commitieon the Native Hawaiian and Oher Pacific Isladner catogory (http://www.census.gov/cac/www/nhopiindex.html)


2)your welcome. although, Pacific Islanders have not made it. Asians, I see doing fairly well as a whole tho....

[SunWuKong]

oops, let me reiterate: so if the community of PI's is one that is completely separate as far as geography, politics, culture, history, and society goes (which is wholly legitimate) doesn't that, along with a intraracial heirarchy (where unfortunately, east asians would be "above" PI's) further prove that asians can, and have, marginalize PI's?

love,
prof. frink

exactly! ding ding ding! Vanna, tell frink what she's won!

[Napoleon Chynamite]

i'm not sure if im comprehending - i agree with you -but what i'm saying is that asian americans themselves have drawn divisions with PI's after the fact that PI's are lumped with them by non-Asians/PI's - thus - asians are able to marginalize PI's - and it's happened - i've witnessed it.

love,
prof. frink

crap...sorry

Yea I misread your post x_x mah bad

[Mr.Lum]

since Asians an PIs are not the same communiy, Asians are not marganlaizing their "own" by not doing things for them. this is what I am saying. PIs are not in the "APA" or "AAPI" community. Asians do it with out us. we do our thing with out Asians.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

oops, let me reiterate: so if the community of PI's is one that is completely separate as far as geography, politics, culture, history, and society goes (which is wholly legitimate) doesn't that, along with a intraracial heirarchy (where unfortunately, east asians would be "above" PI's) further prove that asians can, and have, marginalize PI's?

love,
prof. frink

Man...that's what I've been trying to say all along. In fact, I swore I did say that somewhere along the line. *swallows self righteousness*

[Napoleon Chynamite]

since Asians an PIs are not the same communiy, Asians are not marganlaizing their "own" by not doing things for them. this is what I am saying. PIs are not in the "APA" or "AAPI" community. Asians do it with out us. we do our thing with out Asians.

Ok so basically your point is that Asians can marginalize PI's, but when they're doing so, they're not marginalizing their 'own' according to your definition. Ok, point taken. I agree.

Problem is that there are Asian activists out there who DO see PI's as their own, and if they consciously or unconsciously marginalize PI interests, then technically you CAN say that they are in deed marginalizing their own because to them, PI's are part of the alliance.

[SunWuKong]

1)
Asian and Pacific Islander Populations

copied and pasted from the header of that page.
December 2001: The Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander Population: 2000 [PDF 480k]

copied from that page

if you look at the page, the Asian and Pacific Islander populatons are listed separate:

Asian
Chinese
Filipino
Japanese
Asian Indian
Korean
Vietnamese
Cambodian
Hmong
Laotian
Thai
Other Asian

Pacific Islander
Polynesian
Hawaiian
Samoan
Tongan
Other Polynesian
Micronesian
Guamanian
Other Micronesian
Pacific Islander, not specified

and:
We the Americans Series
Asians [PDF]
Pacific Islander [PDF]

these are profiles of separate populations. the second one is very good. first on, I have not read.

Census Advisory Commitieon the Native Hawaiian and Oher Pacific Isladner catogory (http://www.census.gov/cac/www/nhopiindex.html)

sure. and Chinese people have their unique numbers from Koreans. doesn't take away from the fact that the government still uses the term "Asian Pacific Islander".


2)your welcome. although, Pacific Islanders have not made it. Asians, I see doing fairly well as a whole tho....

you'll have to talk to frink about that. i think she'd disagree. (well, me too.)

[SunWuKong]

since Asians an PIs are not the same communiy, Asians are not marganlaizing their "own" by not doing things for them. this is what I am saying. PIs are not in the "APA" or "AAPI" community. Asians do it with out us. we do our thing with out Asians.

so... Asians are not marginalising "their own", but they can marginalise PIs?

[Mr.Lum]

SWK, yes.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

so... Asians are not marginalising "their own", but they can marginalise PIs?

SWK, yes

Well ok then I know I'm gonna come across as a petty bastard when I post this but anyways Mr.Lum here was what you first said and also what I was arguing against:

I dont think Asians can margionalize Pacific Islanders because they are not related.

[SunWuKong]

SWK, yes.


ok. gotcha.
by the way, i do agree with you on this. and really, it's the same thing as what i've been saying all along concerning Asians being marginalised by blacks (and whites).

[Mr.Lum]

thats what Im talking about. name of topic margiaize our own. PIs arent Asians.

[BeTheReds]

but that whenever issues were addressed or discussed, it solely concerned east asians



Or oftentimes west coast based Chinese Americans...

[pfc beansprout]

..."i'm SE asian!" *raises hand*


thanx...
from "mr. 7pages of posting later =x

(btw, i did read nearly all seven pages...not sure if i can add in the convo of PI issues =o...maybe if it comes back to SE i can play along :rolleyes: )