what is/was your relationship with your mother?

[kasia]

are you like her in many ways? an exact opposite? are you guys best friends? can hardly stand one another?

[artsfartsyjanet]

The answer is all of the above. :D I think I get my preference for anonymity from her. Then again, I can also be "un-lady" like (according to her standards). For instance, I like to inquire and ask "why does it have to be this or that....?" If you have authoritarian parents, you probably know what I mean firsthand. When I ask why when they say no, they either ignore me or they just say "because I said so. Don't ask anymore." :D Of course, an answer like that never suffices. When I'm angry, I hate repressing myself. My mom, on other hand, does that a lot. She also gives me a major guilt trip with the look on her face. hahah.... Sometimes, it works if I knew I stole food out of the refrigerator and lied about it. I think she does that sometimes when I'm being "unlady" like and it drives her up the wall. My mother and I aren't very close unfortunately. She and I try SOMEtimes to showing some act of kindness. For instance, at dinner, I'll put food on her plate. Sometimes, she'll put food on mine. There's very little affection honestly, and in a way, I don't let it really bother me that much anymore because I can't blame her for our generational and cultural gap. She blames me all the time, but the world she knows isn't as wide as I ought to think it should be. When I was younger, my mom and I would be like sisters. We would always go to the mall together, but I guess I just changed before her eyes. :D Whether it's for better or worse, it's relative.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 22 2002, 01:51 PM-->

[angel nympho]

OUr relationship was nonexistent.

[Saiko]

My mom and I go together like water and oil. Rabid oil.
My sister and her are best friends. I'm her best enemy. I can't see how my sister and her get along so well. My friends want to deck my mom for abusing me emotionally and in the past, physically. She used to drag me around the house by my hair and slam me into walls when I was little. She stopped when I got too big for that. Don't get me wrong. She can be a good mother. Takes care of me well. But she often drives me into insanity and sometimes I stay in that state for a few days. I don't like talking to her, because a simple sentence often has me end up tearing my hair out. She reminds me everyday how fat, lazy, filthy, dumb, et cetera I am. I've gotten used to it, but it's her repetitiveness that bugs me. My sister knows this. At a restaurant, she once asked my mom to list my good qualities. My mom fell silent and then went, "First we have to make her realize her bad qualities" and she started going on. This made me angry, because shouldn't she realize that she already drilled the self-hating thoughts into my head enough? My sister stopped her and made her think of the good things. After 5 minutes of thinking, my mom said that I was compassionate. Great. My first compliment. But then she started doing my bad qualities again. I almost flipped the table over. >_< I also remember the night before my School of Arts audition. I told her I was nervous. She said, "I don't care. It's your fault for not trying hard enough. You're always so lazy." Wonderful.

[terramera]

I wish I had a close relationship with my mother, but I don't. I hardly talk to her about anything, I can't really stand to be with her for more than a couple of hours. I love my mom to bits, don't get me wrong, but sometimes she can be a total bitch. She constantly complains and puts me down. If it's not my weight, its my clothes, or my job, etc...
It's really funny because even though she constantly puts me down, she likes to brag about me to other people. I mean what the hell?
I think she tries to work some reverse psychology on me. You know telling me I'm stupid would make me study harder or something. But sadly, it just gave me major self esteem problems that I'm still to this day, working out.

Do you guys think that Asian mothers are especially hard on their children? I've noticed that most of my friends whose mothers are from Asian countries, have similar problems with their mothers being overly critical. Why do you think it is?

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by terramera@Aug 23 2002, 04:06 AM
Do you guys think that Asian mothers are especially hard on their children? I've noticed that most of my friends whose mothers are from Asian countries, have similar problems with their mothers being overly critical. Why do you think it is?
Oh boy do I feel your pain! :P Well, I know what you're getting at as far as having this reverse psychology imposed on you, but I'd rather think of it as manipulation. It sounds like you (as a matter of fact ALL of you in this forum) love your mothers, but because we grow up in a society where parents are more democratic with their children, we may feel that the lack of emotional support or nurturing from our moms (or our parents for that matter) has had an impact on your confidence or self-worth. Well, I've been hit by a metal rod when i was younger, my dad slapped me on the back of my head pretty hard, my mom also threatened me with a knife once when I was a child, and it's painful to think about those incidences. Every year in grade school, there was a Mother's Day writing contest to see who writes the best about their moms. I always faked it when I wrote it. It's funny how memories can lead such a painful impression. How do we change our mother's ways? Well, unfortunately, I think our parents way of childrearing is set in stone especially if they're authoritarian, whom are more punishing. My parents are very isolated, but once in awhile, they'll surround themselves with Chinese friends. And of course their friends are also authoritative. As far as other Asian groups, it sounds like this practice is widespread. I think our parents are the way they are because they were probably treated the same way when they were once children. I don't get along with my fraternal grandmother because she prided on sons rather than daughters. She said that she would take care of a grandson rather than a grand daughter. Though she's only 4'8", that woman packs a punch! My maternal grandmother spoils me, so I don't know where exactly my mom went "wrong". Then again, my mom is the youngest of 6 children. And the oldest sibling is quite controlling. Good parenting skills weren't really offered back in my parent's native country. Even if it was, the consensus is probably to raise children authoritatively. Despite all of these negative experiences, all of you also sound like very resilient and conscientious people who are aware of the differences-- differences that will ultimately lead you to choose how you'd like to set an example for the people who surround you.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 23 2002, 10:42 AM-->

[Saiko]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 23 2002, 10:29 AM
Oh boy do I feel your pain! :P Well, I know what you're getting at as far as having this reverse psychology imposed on you, but I'd rather think of it as manipulation. It sounds like you (as a matter of fact ALL of you in this forum) love your mothers, but because we grow up in a society where parents are more democratic with their children, we may feel that the lack of emotional support or nurturing from our moms (or our parents for that matter) has had an impact on your confidence or self-worth.
It did have an impact on my self worth. I mean, I don't care about insults anymore now, but growing up with it kinda pounded it into my head. I could sit there and suddenly think all these negative things about myself and question the point of my existence. I don't take compliments very well. Sometimes I say thanks, but I always think they're crazy for seeing something in me. With the loving my mother thing... I'm not so sure about that. The love I show her is the result of the guilt trips she gives me. Otherwise, I don't know what to make of somebody that almost literally drives me into insanity. That's when I start getting violent and hurt myself, but she just urges me on. "Go ahead. Destroy your body! No boy will want you. I don't know why your boyfriend does. Oh, does that hurt? Keep doing it!" That just gets me angrier and more violent. I don't know. I'm crazy. =p

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by Saiko@Aug 23 2002, 12:00 PM
I always think they're crazy for seeing something in me. With the loving my mother thing... I'm not so sure about that. The love I show her is the result of the guilt trips she gives me. Otherwise, I don't know what to make of somebody that almost literally drives me into insanity. That's when I start getting violent and hurt myself, but she just urges me on. "Go ahead. Destroy your body! No boy will want you. I don't know why your boyfriend does. Oh, does that hurt? Keep doing it!" That just gets me angrier and more violent. I don't know. I'm crazy. =p
I don't think you're crazy. You certainly make sense to me. :) It sounds like "love" has become just a bunch of mundane behaviors. It's conditional. If I do this for you, you are obligated to do this for me. I'll give you a car if you promise to be an obedient daughter. When I was younger, I threatened to call the police or run away from them. But of course, I never called the police and I never walked more than a mile from my parents. =) Although my parents are more lenient now, even when i was in high school and attended school functions rather than helping out at their restaurant, my parents would say, "Have you had enough "fun" yet? Why don't you stay out later?"It's a stupid guilt trip they triy to pull on me. The sad thing is that they don't know how damaging words can be. The blame is ALWAYS on us. It's ALWAYS a no win situation. So, instead of trying to change them, I just go to a healthier and safer environment where people actually have faith in me. Because of the environment I was raised in, I loved to stay at school rather than hear my parents bicker about unnecessary and redundant things. =) In other words, I channel my anger into more productive things as a way of coping. Everyone's different, and it's easier said than done. As far as your relationship with your mom, I think all of us at one point strive to gain some affection or approval when we were children. I've confronted my parents about whether they love me or not. They say, "Of course we do. We just never say it because it's implied. " I asked, "how is it implied?" My mom or dad would reply,"You have a car, you go to a good school, you live under a new roof, etc...." All of their "nurturing" comes from the food they put on the table, etc.... Well it's nice to me, but I started to question that even just tangible things weren't enough. They celebrated my birthday until I was 13. I felt some degree of affection during my early years of life. Anyway, wanting more than just money and materials fires the argument. I simply tell them, "You never just ask how I am." I come home from school, the food's there. I get it myself, I eat it, and then I do my homework. After homework, I help at the restaurant, hear my parents lecture me about mundane things while I work, and drive myself home. Same stupid routine. Where's the friggin hugs or thanks for helping out. Is that too much to ask? Anyway, those were my thoughts back then. Right now, I pretty much moved on and lead a different life than what my parents expected out of me. And honestly, I have no regrets. =) I love psychology and management information systems. I wouldn't change my decisions if I had the opportunity. Plus in college, I've been so fortunate to meet such WONDERFUL friends. I never really bring my friends back home because honestly, I don't think they'll like them that much either. I don't hate my mom, but I don't like the way she belittles me.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 23 2002, 12:33 PM-->

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by Saiko@Aug 23 2002, 12:00 PM
I don't take compliments very well. Sometimes I say thanks, but I always think they're crazy for seeing something in me.
I didn't take compliments well either. Now, I'm better about accepting them because I've learned to accept myself. It's hard to accept other's compliments when we can't compliment ourselves first. It's also an attitude. I think of it this way.... If my parents don't think I'm worthy of being here, how do I prove them wrong? It's easy to think negatively... which is what I used to do A LOT! Thinking negatively is learned. So, what I have spent time doing in the past is UNLEARNING it. So, I try to make a habit of catching myself being negative and think of something else positive to nuke the negativity. My parents love to brag about me to other people. "Yeah, my daughter's in college now." But when it's just me and them, they'll scorn me up the yin yang. What's worse is that they probably make this false association that the more you scorn your child, the greater the likelihood she/he will go on to college. What a bunch of bologne. In a way, the pressure they gave me pushed me to stay in school, but it's a different story whether I really enjoyed school more because of the pressure. My parents never complimented me in my face but they do it to other people. It's like I'm this "prodigy" child that THEY programmed me to be.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 23 2002, 06:05 PM-->

[krissy]

I love my mommy. And I'm really grateful for the relationship that I have with her. I think that I'm like her in a lot of ways in that we deal with things in much the same way. She has a very thorough understanding of the way that I think and may know me better than anyone. I can tell her anything - and she can usually make me feel better when I need it. Usually when I call her to whine and complain about something, she doesn't baby me (which admittedly is sort of what I seek sometimes), but reminds me that I'm 24 years old and am an adult. I know that it hurts her when I have moments of self-doubt and fail to recognize my accomplishments. I'm sure that in my teenage years I must have had moments of not liking her so much - but they must not have been too significant since I can't seem to recall them now. I think that I also have her eyes and her calves - for better or worse. :P

I must note - because I am not sure whether it makes a difference - that my family is not very Asian culturally. Regardless, my parents have always been there for me, I know they'd do anything for me, and I don't know where I'd be without them. (Hmmm...maybe I should try to visit them more than quarterly...:P)

[Saiko]

Janet's got some good points in there. And I'm jealous of Krissy. <_<

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by Saiko@Aug 24 2002, 12:28 PM
Janet's got some good points in there. And I'm jealous of Krissy. &nbsp;<_<
It's easy to compare myself to other people who have loving parents, but I also learned to try my best to nuke that kind negativity too. See how easy it is to feel negative? hehe..... Honestly, even though other people have a better relationship with their parents than I do, I wouldn't want to wish the same for them for what I went through. It also sounds like the only escape is by going away or resorting to some sort of violence, but honestly, bitterness is a vicious cycle.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 24 2002, 04:26 PM-->

[kasia]

i have a very good relationship right now with my mother, but i also went through what saiko and janet went through during my junior high and high school years. the fights were never-ending, and i really felt as though as i was not good enough. that's why i completely related to some parts of joy luck club.

as we grow older, though, i think it's important to let go of past grudges and to work on a new relationship with our mother.

i have a good friend who is still very bitter about her mother for not being more encouraging and supportive and talks about having trouble "forgiving" her mother. i personally think this is absurd, as harsh as i may sound. a mother's failure to be supportive is no excuse for us to be less-than-dutiful daughters. a mother does not have ask for nor earn her own daughter's forgiveness. again, this is just my opinion.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by kasia@Aug 25 2002, 04:55 AM
i personally think this is absurd, as harsh as i may sound. &nbsp;a mother's failure to be supportive is no excuse for us to be less-than-dutiful daughters.
Duty as in obedience? To me, it means I am obligated to work at my parents restaurant, stay at home most of the time studying, eating only with my family, not staying up past 10pm on the weekends, hold my tongue if I'm lectured, and allowed to be scorned because I "deserve" it.
I think it's best to take care of myself first (which is an individualist/more Western concept). As what my family wants, I may eat with them during the weekends, spend time with my brother, study a lot, pour tea in someone's cup, or put food on their plate, but I hardly talk at the table except to my cousins or my brother. Elders talk among themselves, and the more assimilated folk around my age carry our own conversations. Once in awhile, we'll merge but minimally. A perfect example of the age and cultural gap is simply by one sitting at my family's table during dinner.
My mother doesn't even talk to me even if I try engaging in a conversation with her. I mainly speak to my father, who in turn, will probably tell my mom what's going on. Don't get me wrong. I love my mother, but I'd rather not be THAT obedient to prove that I love her. I can understand if they're being very protective, but their expectations are unreasonable to me.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 25 2002, 07:55 AM-->

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 25 2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Aug 25 2002, 04:55 AM
i personally think this is absurd, as harsh as i may sound. a mother's failure to be supportive is no excuse for us to be less-than-dutiful daughters.
Don't get me wrong. I love my mother, but I'd rather not be THAT obedient to prove that I love her. I can understand if they're being very protective, but their expectations are unreasonable to me.
From my understanding... when Kasia was saying there is no excuse for us to be less-than-dutiful daughters... i dont think she was really referring to being dutiful daughters in terms of following orders and being obedient.... but i think she was more referring to our duty to let go of our bitterness that we may hold... and to forgive our mothers for their short comings...

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Aug 25 2002, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 25 2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Aug 25 2002, 04:55 AM
i personally think this is absurd, as harsh as i may sound. a mother's failure to be supportive is no excuse for us to be less-than-dutiful daughters.
Don't get me wrong. I love my mother, but I'd rather not be THAT obedient to prove that I love her. I can understand if they're being very protective, but their expectations are unreasonable to me.
From my understanding... when Kasia was saying there is no excuse for us to be less-than-dutiful daughters... i dont think she was really referring to being dutiful daughters in terms of following orders and being obedient.... but i think she was more referring to our duty to let go of our bitterness that we may hold... and to forgive our mothers for their short comings...
A few posts above I already stated:
I don't let it really bother me that much anymore because I can't blame her for our generational and cultural gap. She blames me all the time, but the world she knows isn't as wide as I ought to think it should be.

I already know that due to these gaps and differences between my mother and me, I've already forgiven my mother. What I am saying is that my mother still has her ways of imposing her values or beliefs on me, and I will not stand to that, but it doesn't mean I'm bitter about our past. I'm only stating the facts of what has happened... not dwelling on them. The old saying goes, we forgive but never forget.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 25 2002, 04:04 PM-->

[kasia]

it's a touchy issue, and i don't mean to impose my views on anybody when it comes to this--especially because i probably don't understand the dynamics of every mother-daughter relationship.

i guess i've been a bit sheltered in the sense that it is difficult for me to conceive of anyone's mother can really be "that bad" or "that mean", but i know it happens...

sometimes i push close friends pretty hard to strive for the perfect mother-daughter relationship...and in some situations, it just won't work...whether it be because of the past or because the mother just isn't willing to do her part.

again, my earlier comment wasn't meant to be 'holier-than-though', but rather more like, "wouldn't it be great if we could all completely let go and start over...". maybe that was stupid.



<!--EDIT|kasia|Aug 26 2002, 04:57 AM-->

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by kasia@Aug 25 2002, 04:18 PM

again, my earlier comment was meant to be 'holier-than-though', but rather more like, "wouldn't it be great if we could all completely let go and start over...". maybe that was stupid.
it's not stupid. It's just easier said than done. =)

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 25 2002, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Aug 25 2002, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 25 2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Aug 25 2002, 04:55 AM
i personally think this is absurd, as harsh as i may sound. a mother's failure to be supportive is no excuse for us to be less-than-dutiful daughters.
Don't get me wrong. I love my mother, but I'd rather not be THAT obedient to prove that I love her. I can understand if they're being very protective, but their expectations are unreasonable to me.
From my understanding... when Kasia was saying there is no excuse for us to be less-than-dutiful daughters... i dont think she was really referring to being dutiful daughters in terms of following orders and being obedient.... but i think she was more referring to our duty to let go of our bitterness that we may hold... and to forgive our mothers for their short comings...
A few posts above I already stated:
I don't let it really bother me that much anymore because I can't blame her for our generational and cultural gap. She blames me all the time, but the world she knows isn't as wide as I ought to think it should be.

I already know that due to these gaps and differences between my mother and me, I've already forgiven my mother. What I am saying is that my mother still has her ways of imposing her values or beliefs on me, and I will not stand to that, but it doesn't mean I'm bitter about our past. I'm only stating the facts of what has happened... not dwelling on them. The old saying goes, we forgive but never forget.
I hear ya guys. I let the past go because I know that as a daughter, I should love unconditionally and (somewhat) blindly. I've just decided to be the bigger person. Despite all the crap I've had to put up with, I realize that they gave me a roof to live under for 18 years...they put food on the table... and as much as I hate to admit it, my life would have SUCKED without them.

But I still hold firm to the belief that once you lose my respect, you have to earn it back. In no way am I the obedient, submissive daughter I am expected to be. I just choose not to disown or be disowned.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 25 2002, 06:53 PM
I just choose not to disown or be disowned.
That's pretty much how I endure my parents.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 25 2002, 11:52 PM-->

[kimpossible]

I'll try not to get too mushy, but thank you to everyone who opened up about their relationship with their mother. Today it's really, really, really, really helping me.

About 12 years ago my mom dumped my sister and I for her new husband and his family. She stopped by about once or twice in the past decade to see us secretly for about 12 hours. Lately, she's been doing things like apologizing for any 'weird oriental things' my sister and I might do and she refuses to show my wedding picture to any of her friends. I think I've been in denial for a few years now, but I think I'm beginning to understand that she's valuing her new white stepchildren over my sister and I.

I think my method of coping with this is the reasoning that independent of what her behavior and choices are, I still have to be responsible for my own. I still love her, take care of her and show her respect but my heart is beginning to feel like a big chunk of ice.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 30 2002, 12:27 PM
I'll try not to get too mushy, but thank you to everyone who opened up about their relationship with their mother. Today it's really, really, really, really helping me.

About 12 years ago my mom dumped my sister and I for her new husband and his family. She stopped by about once or twice in the past decade to see us secretly for about 12 hours. Lately, she's been doing things like apologizing for any 'weird oriental things' my sister and I might do and she refuses to show my wedding picture to any of her friends. I think I've been in denial for a few years now, but I think I'm beginning to understand that she's valuing her new white stepchildren over my sister and I.

I think my method of coping with this is the reasoning that independent of what her behavior and choices are, I still have to be responsible for my own. I still love her, take care of her and show her respect but my heart is beginning to feel like a big chunk of ice.
Yeah HH, my mom had a similar experience. My grandmother (mom's mom) did the same thing. Her husband had 5 wives(yes at the same time) was some kind of ambassador for Canton. He basically ignored my mom's mother and paid more attention to his other 4 wives after she gave birth to my mom (the youngest child). And my grandmother viewed this as my mother's fault and treated her like shit. My mom would burst into tears when she tell me stories about her childhood.

My mom still keeps in contact with her once in awhile, until my grandmother passed away. But didn't have that loving mother daughter relationship. My brother and I never met her, and we never met her when she was still alive when we went to Taiwan. And come Chinese New Years we never light the incense leave food for her or pay our respects to her. We only do it for our grandparents from my father's side, they were poor but very closely knit.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 30 2002, 03:13 PM-->

[kasia]

thank you all for sharing. this topic was very personal, but i, for one, think it was very interesting to learn about the mother/daughter relationships of other asian females out there.

...

re: hello_hapa's post: i am sorry that you had to go through all that. it seems, though, that you have managed to take the right direction in life without her guidance and have grown to be a strong woman on your own.

...

re: bunboy's post: for those of you with brothers, do you find that your mother has favored your brother over you? i know mine has, but it's not a big deal.