Where are the Asian American Leaders?

[Yeahman]

We have none! I mean ones that have the interests of the Asian American community as their #1 priority.

The ideal candidate would be...
American born and bred
Of Far East descent
Fluent in his mother tongue
A devout Christian
A great speaker but moreover a passionate speaker
Educated
Experienced racism and discrimination

Where is this person?

[hooligan]

we need someone like malcolm x, a radical, well spoken, well versed, intellegent, instills fear, gives AAPIs a mad voice and embodies action.

[hooligan]

who needs christianity?

[Blue dice]

A devout Christian

I strongly disagree with this. There's nothing wrong with a Taoist or Buddhist asian leader. Matter of fact i'd be more suspicious if they were Christian because it means part of their cultural ideals have already been negatively influenced by the west.

[Proxy]

I agree we need some more strong Asian American leaders. I just have one little modification to suggest. That leader should have the well being of all Americans as his #1 priority.

[younggiftedandblack]

Allow me if you will to give an outsiders POV.

You all listed some good characteristics, but failed to metioned an important one.

The ability to unite. What good would it do to have a leader who embodies all those other traits, but he/she is of Chinese decent and Japanese Americans won't listen or follow. You'd have to have someone who can cross the culture and ethnic lines and bring people together as one.

[Yeahman]

I knew there would be some disagreement about the "devout Christian" attribute but I'll give you my reasons. Most Chinese don't give a crap what religion he is. Koreans will care. Philippinos may care as well.
If you look back at the ethnic leaders they all had strong religious foundations (ie. MLK, Malcolm X...). It doesn't make a different one way or the other for the non-religious and Taoists and Buddhists are less picky. But Christians and Muslims are very picky. A Christian leader may alienate the Indonesians but it satisfies the most Asian Americans (Koreans, Philippinos, many Vietnamese...).

[Yeahman]

I agree we need some more strong Asian American leaders. I just have one little modification to suggest. That leader should have the well being of all Americans as his #1 priority.
No. We have some of them. What happens is that they become more focused on the problems of white America because we are so powerless. We need a leader that will focus on Asian Americans first.

[Yeahman]

we need someone like malcolm x, a radical, well spoken, well versed, intellegent, instills fear, gives AAPIs a mad voice and embodies action.
Instills fear? We don't want a leader preaching Asian supremacy.

[kuilong]

we need someone like malcolm x, a radical, well spoken, well versed, intellegent, instills fear, gives AAPIs a mad voice and embodies action.

Malcolm X is a tad more controversial than I'd like, especially since for some time he was a member of Nation of Islam and various remarks, like his criticism of Kennedy right after he was assassinated (something about how the assisination was justified in light of the American-supported coup d'etat against Patrice Lumumba and other things).

Matter of fact i'd be more suspicious if they were Christian because it means part of their cultural ideals have already been negatively influenced by the west.

I'm not so sure about this either. Why I wouldn't say that being a Christian is a plus in my eyes (though it might be in the eyes of other voters), it's hardly a minus. Fully half of S. Korea's population is Christian, have they been "negatively" influenced by the west? Why negatively? (If all foreign religions influence Asian culture negatively, is Buddhism a negative influence? (Like Tang Wuzong and many other ancient Chinese thought? (am I even allowed to nest parantheses like this?))).

[SunWuKong]

i think we have some leaders in Cali, but they're not nationally recognised and they concentrate mostly on work in Cali.

it would be difficult to get national support for the kind of leaders you're talking about. we only comprise of 3% to 4% of the population and most of us are actually of immigrant background that may not care about American politics all that much.

[Yeahman]

OK for this leader to become successful he would have to have...
The support of various Asian American organizations
Aides comprised of all the different Asian nationalities
Make lots of college campus appearances
Strong internet presence
Picked up by the Asian and Asian American media
A freaking goal! A goal that is specific and not trivial. Hopefully one that involves human or civil rights.

[SunWuKong]

how does someone like Al Sharpton make a living anyway? i mean, does he have a full-time job or does he actually get paid to do what he does?

[>:^|]

we need someone like malcolm x, a radical, well spoken, well versed, intellegent, instills fear, gives AAPIs a mad voice and embodies action.

Sounds like somebody I know (http://forums.yellowworld.org/member.php?u=1).

[Yeahman]

how does someone like Al Sharpton make a living anyway? i mean, does he have a full-time job or does he actually get paid to do what he does?
He used to be a full-time minister.
He also gets hooked up. He eats for free at any black own restuarant. That's why he's so fat.

[SunWuKong]

He used to be a full-time minister.
He also gets hooked up. He eats for free at any black own restuarant. That's why he's so fat.


shiieet. i want to eat for free at any Asian restaurant i want. maybe i should be the Asian Al Sharpton.

[Blue dice]

I knew there would be some disagreement about the "devout Christian" attribute but I'll give you my reasons. Most Chinese don't give a crap what religion he is. Koreans will care. Philippinos may care as well.

I'd trust a islamic asian leader before i'd trust a westernized Christian "asian" leader. Simply because Christianity (the westernized version) has inherent biases which favor white european cultural views. Filipinos are catholic because they were a colony, first by Spain and then the U.S. In otherwords they get owned which is why they converted en masse. South Koreans are Christian because of early missionaries (and some UN workers) spreading the "faith" there.

Religion is just another way to pacify and convert foreign nations. It's a geopolitical tool to create better colonies who are more willing to follow your cultural lead.

[Yeahman]

South Koreans are Christian because of early missionaries (and some UN workers) spreading the "faith" there.
WRONG!
You can read more about the Eastern origins of Christianity in Korea in the History section of the forum.

[Blue dice]

WRONG!
You can read more about the Eastern origins of Christianity in Korea in the History section of the forum.
Whatever, it doesn't detract from my main point that western Christianity is found in most conquered nations. It's used to subjugate the masses, just look at how effectively Spain spread Catholocism throughout South America to pacify the natives. Even Malcolm X observed this which is why he became a muslim.

[Emperor_Mike]

There is no such thing as an ideal leader. What the Asian community requires is someone who can cater to both Asian and Western needs. There must be good PR work involved so as to avoid the image of an individual who is totally committed to the Asian cause or, on the flip side, completely involved in catering to the needs of the non-Asian community.

[Blue dice]

There is no such thing as an ideal leader. What the Asian community requires is someone who can cater to both Asian and Western needs. There must be good PR work involved so as to avoid the image of an individual who is totally committed to the Asian cause or, on the flip side, completely involved in catering to the needs of the non-Asian community.
I don't want a watered down asian leader who will bend over backwards at the first sign of political pressure from the non asian community.

[kuilong]

Has Gary Locke catered any more to Asian-American interests than other politicians?

[Emperor_Mike]

I don't want a watered down asian leader who will bend over backwards at the first sign of political pressure from the non asian community.

Nobody does, but there must be a balance. If a politician wishes to survive and be re-elected, he or she must learn to cater to both sides of the spectrum whenever possible. This is where the art of compromise comes into play. If you have a politician who is uncompromising on all issues and only wants things done his or her way, you'll have a failed leader. People like to live in an ideal world where things are to their liking. Sadly, the only way to get things done and done well is to hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and be open to compromises.

[Yeahman]

Whatever, it doesn't detract from my main point that western Christianity is found in most conquered nations. It's used to subjugate the masses, just look at how effectively Spain spread Catholocism throughout South America to pacify the natives. Even Malcolm X observed this which is why he became a muslim.
That is not why he became a Muslim. He became a member of the Nation of Islam to get out of jail (that was the bait) and to blame his problems on the white man.

Christianity didn't seem to do too well of a job of pacifying MLK did it?

[SunWuKong]

Whatever, it doesn't detract from my main point that western Christianity is found in most conquered nations. It's used to subjugate the masses, just look at how effectively Spain spread Catholocism throughout South America to pacify the natives. Even Malcolm X observed this which is why he became a muslim.

i don't think that would necessarily detract from their ability to advocate. the religious aspect of such a leader is what gives him a support base. i doubt any Asian minister would just naturally give in to the white majority simply because Christianity was spread to Asia by imperialism and colonialism. Christian history in Asia is kind of irrelevant, in my opinion, to whether or not a Christian Asian would make a good political leader in the US.

[Yeahman]

Nobody does, but there must be a balance. If a politician wishes to survive and be re-elected, he or she must learn to cater to both sides of the spectrum whenever possible. This is where the art of compromise comes into play. If you have a politician who is uncompromising on all issues and only wants things done his or her way, you'll have a failed leader. People like to live in an ideal world where things are to their liking. Sadly, the only way to get things done and done well is to hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and be open to compromises.
Who said anything about this leader being a politician. The ideal Asian American leader would definately NOT be a politician.

[SunWuKong]

Nobody does, but there must be a balance. If a politician wishes to survive and be re-elected, he or she must learn to cater to both sides of the spectrum whenever possible. This is where the art of compromise comes into play. If you have a politician who is uncompromising on all issues and only wants things done his or her way, you'll have a failed leader. People like to live in an ideal world where things are to their liking. Sadly, the only way to get things done and done well is to hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and be open to compromises.

i think that's why people like Al Sharpton and Louis Farakhan can afford to be so concentrated on black issues. they are not elected politicians in the US government.

[Emperor_Mike]

Whatever, it doesn't detract from my main point that western Christianity is found in most conquered nations. It's used to subjugate the masses, just look at how effectively Spain spread Catholocism throughout South America to pacify the natives. Even Malcolm X observed this which is why he became a muslim.

I think the the pacification of native populations in the New World had more to do with Spanish steel weapons, arquebuses and cannons than it did with religion. One of the goals was to bring more converts to the Holy Church and even then it was a secondary objective that took the backseat to gold and riches for the Spanish Crown.

Religion can only be "imposed" upon a people if they had been conquered in the first place. It's not a tool for subjugation. Rather, it may be seen as one of the by-products of conquest instead of a tool to bring about the aforementioned result. The same can be said of Islam in the wars fought by the Seljuk and Ottoman Turks in past centuries. Either your understanding of why Malcolm X converted to Islam is flawed or the man himself was in error to believe in such a thing.

[Emperor_Mike]

Who said anything about this leader being a politician. The ideal Asian American leader would definately NOT be a politician.

Then how would a leader become a leader if he or she has little to no influence over the governing bodies of a nation? Like it or not, in order to be effective in getting a community's agenda across there must be a certain element of politics involved. To think otherwise is erroneous, in my opinion.

[Emperor_Mike]

i think that's why people like Al Sharpton and Louis Farakhan can afford to be so concentrated on black issues. they are not elected politicians in the US government.

But they still exert political pressure due to the fact that they can captivate and or influence their particular segment of the population. At the end of the day, however, it's really up to the politicians who get into office to decide whether or not they ought to implement certain agendas from their election platforms. A minority can get a politician into office, but a minority cannot influence legislation to the full extent required to bring about effective change without having a representative and advocate within the halls of government itself.

[Yeahman]

Then how would a leader become a leader if he or she has little to no influence over the governing bodies of a nation? Like it or not, in order to be effective in getting a community's agenda across there must be a certain element of politics involved. To think otherwise is erroneous, in my opinion.
1st of all the agenda need not be purely political. But even the political elements need not be led by a politician. MLK, Malcolm X...
When a leader is born with a large enough following the politicans will seek him.

[>:^|]

i think that's why people like Al Sharpton and Louis Farakhan can afford to be so concentrated on black issues. they are not elected politicians in the US government.

I agree with this. Seeming to have an "Asian agenda" is a death warrant for a politician. Despite the fact that nobody accuses Whites of having a "White agenda."

[Blue dice]

That is not why he became a Muslim. He became a member of the Nation of Islam to get out of jail (that was the bait) and to blame his problems on the white man.

That wasn't the only reason I think you need to go read his autobiography again. He also expressed disatisfaction at the white Christian status quo. His views broke from the Nation of Islam when he became a real muslim anyways.

Christianity didn't seem to do too well of a job of pacifying MLK did it?
Malcolm X and MLK had different views. Both had the same goal concerning the betterment of black people in America. MLK was more about assimilation, while Malcolm X was about keeping african-american identity while also improving the lot of african-americans.

[SunWuKong]

When a leader is born with a large enough following the politicans will seek him.

very good point. especially if s/he has a national audience.

[Chester]

Malcolm X and MLK had different views. Both had the same goal concerning the betterment of black people in America. MLK was more about assimilation, while Malcolm X was about keeping african-american identity while also improving the lot of african-americans.
Isn't it just completely ridiculous how those two guys totally up and stole their political stances from Magneto and Professor X in X-Men?

[Emperor_Mike]

1st of all the agenda need not be purely political. But even the political elements need not be lead by a politician. MLK, Malcolm X...
When a leader is born with a large enough following the politicans will seek him.

Seeking votes and getting elected is one thing, following through with promises is entirely different. I've gone through the whole election process after having volunteered my time with several politicians in my home province and city from mayoral candidates to provincial parliament MPs. They're all the same. The city I come from has a very large Chinese population and the candidate I worked with two (three?) years ago once said (during "War Room" meetings) that all he has to do is appease the non-Asians with token promises whilst concentrating on Asian (read, Chinese) agendas if he's elected. The same applies to the current Premier of BC, Gordon Campbell when I was on his election team. Satisfy the minorities with some words and move on to the more important things.

It's not right, but it's the way things are. Either people have too much faith in the whole concept of "they'll listen to us if we're loud enough" or I've become far to cynical for my own good.

[Emperor_Mike]

very good point. especially if s/he has a national audience.

I'd like to think that, but sadly my experience with the dirty business behind politics tells me otherwise. I think I need more faith in people.

[lethal]

Has Gary Locke catered any more to Asian-American interests than other politicians?

I was thinking precisely of Gary Locke.

[Yeahman]

very good point. especially if s/he has a national audience.
I think that's exactly what the Asian American community has gotten wrong; the belief that Asian Americans are empowered by entering politics. That's a sure way to be be gobbled up by white America and lose sight of the interests of the Asian American community. The road to empowerment lies in lobbying. Once we have that base then it makes more sense to enter politics.

[Blue dice]

Religion can only be "imposed" upon a people if they had been conquered in the first place. It's not a tool for subjugation. Rather, it may be seen as one of the by-products of conquest instead of a tool to bring about the aforementioned result. The same can be said of Islam in the wars fought by the Seljuk and Ottoman Turks in past centuries. Either your understanding of why Malcolm X converted to Islam is flawed or the man himself was in error to believe in such a thing.
You're missing a vital point here, you can't keep a colony through force alone. Social engineering is required and religious imperialism was all part of the process. The Spaniards would first conquer their enemy and then convert the masses through religion. The residual aspects of culture (music, language, customs, etc..) followed soon after when the people adopted the european way.

Malcolm X viewed western Christianity as the white man's religion. That's one of the reasons why he chose islam because he felt it contained more aspects of universal brotherhood. If you look at western christianity there is a good point to that. Christianity is used as a basis for a large part of western culture. The icons, the philosophy, the architecture, etc.. it's a part of their cultural tradition. When that tradition is imposed on others they are forced to adopt many of the same social morals, iconography, and ritualism used by the Church. Part of that is implied subservience to the western world. Remember some of the biggest slavetraders were white Christians. Please read about how Christians viewed "noble savages" and the patronizing attitude of western religion. Racism, imperialism, etc.. is deeply ensconsed within the western Christian heritage.

[Yeahman]

Seeking votes and getting elected is one thing, following through with promises is entirely different. I've gone through the whole election process after having volunteered my time with several politicians in my home province and city from mayoral candidates to provincial parliament MPs. They're all the same. The city I come from has a very large Chinese population and the candidate I worked with two (three?) years ago once said (during "War Room" meetings) that all he has to do is appease the non-Asians with token promises whilst concentrating on Asian (read, Chinese) agendas if he's elected. The same applies to the current Premier of BC, Gordon Campbell when I was on his election team. Satisfy the minorities with some words and move on to the more important things.

It's not right, but it's the way things are. Either people have too much faith in the whole concept of "they'll listen to us if we're loud enough" or I've become far to cynical for my own good.
Well we're not a well organized group at this point. If and when we are able to form an effective voting bloc, politicans will feel more pressure to follow through. Otherwise we endorse the other candidate.

[Blue dice]

Isn't it just completely ridiculous how those two guys totally up and stole their political stances from Magneto and Professor X in X-Men?
:D

[Emperor_Mike]

Well we're not a well organized group at this point. If and when we are able to form an effective voting bloc, politicans will feel more pressure to follow through. Otherwise we endorse the other candidate.

Even with organisation we will face an uphill battle against if we decide to go at it alone without "enlisting" the aid of other groups. We can, at best, bring our situation and wishes to light, but until the community can field viable candidates, all we have to look forward to are word plays and statements designed to placate the more impressionable voters among us.

[Yeahman]

You're missing a vital point here, you can't keep a colony through force alone. Social engineering is required and religious imperialism was all part of the process. The Spaniards would first conquer their enemy and then convert the masses through religion. The residual aspects of culture (music, language, customs, etc..) followed soon after when the people adopted the european way.

Malcolm X viewed western Christianity as the white man's religion. That's one of the reasons why he chose islam because he felt it contained more aspects of universal brotherhood. If you look at western christianity there is a good point to that. Christianity is used as a basis for a large part of western culture. The icons, the philosophy, the architecture, etc.. it's a part of their cultural tradition. When that tradition is imposed on others then they are forced to adopt many of the same social morals, iconography, and ritualism used by the Church. Part of that is implied subservience to the western world. Remember some of the biggest slavetraders were white Christians. Please read about how Christians viewed "noble savages" and the patronizing attitude of western religion. Racism, imperialism, etc.. is deeply ensconsed within the western Christian heritage.
The biggest non-native defender of the Native Americans during Spanish conquest was Bartolome de las Casas, a Spanish Catholic priest. In fact it is through him that we know of much of the cruelties that the Native Americans experienced.

First of all Malcolm X would obviously have a bias against Christianity having been saved from a destructive lifestyle through the Nation of Islam which thought that the white devil's religion is Christianity. Do you also believe, as he did, that racism could only be cured by Islam?
But he did not believe Christianity to be a white man's religion. Only that Christianity was peverted by the white man. In fact he believe, at least initally, that Christianity was originally black.

[Emperor_Mike]

You're missing a vital point here, you can't keep a colony through force alone. Social engineering is required and religious imperialism was all part of the process. The Spaniards would first conquer their enemy and then convert the masses through religion. The residual aspects of culture (music, language, customs, etc..) followed soon after when the people adopted the european way.

Malcolm X viewed western Christianity as the white man's religion. That's one of the reasons why he chose islam because he felt it contained more aspects of universal brotherhood. If you look at western christianity there is a good point to that. Christianity is used as a basis for a large part of western culture. The icons, the philosophy, the architecture, etc.. it's a part of their cultural tradition. When that tradition is imposed on others they are forced to adopt many of the same social morals, iconography, and ritualism used by the Church. Part of that is implied subservience to the western world. Remember some of the biggest slavetraders were white Christians. Please read about how Christians viewed "noble savages" and the patronizing attitude of western religion. Racism, imperialism, etc.. is deeply ensconsed within the western Christian heritage.


But cooperation through force was utilised and religion had very, very little to do with it. If the Spanish experiment with "Convert them and they shall live like us" worked, I would imagine that the surviving Christian and modernised native populations in post-old Imperialism South and North America would be a great deal higher. The Spanish were more interested in maximising the productivity of their sugar plantations and mines than they were in saving the souls of the "heathen" natives of New Spain. Religion has been used in the name of conquest, but it alone has never been a tool to subjugate people.

As for the attitudes of Western Religion, again the same can be said of Islam. One of the main reasons for Ottoman and Arabic conquests was to spread the faith, much like the Christian Crusades sent to check Islam's ambition in the "Holy Land." You can't argue for one side without considering the other part of the argument. In fact, all of your arguments against Christianity can be applied to Islam as well and it certainly doesn't take much effort to see that. Ultimately, religion can be twisted to suit the purpose of any race or culture. The true ideals behind a particular organised faith, however, should be the factor that all must consider instead of some bastardised version of it.

[ChinaLama]

Even with organisation we will face an uphill battle against if we decide to go at it alone without "enlisting" the aid of other groups. We can, at best, bring our situation and wishes to light, but until the community can field viable candidates, all we have to look forward to are word plays and statements designed to placate the more impressionable voters among us.

I don't think, to have politicians pay attention to our concerns, we necessarily need Asian American politicians, or at least many of them. What we need is a well organized Asian American community-- like yello said, a bloc vote. If Asian Americans can sustain a bloc vote, then politicians will follow their promises because if they don't, they'll be punished (on the flip side, if they keep their promises, they know they'll be awarded). For instance, there aren't that many Jewish American politicians on the national stage, but most politicians don't go against Jewish American interests, because if they do, they know that the well-organized JA community can punish them.

[Emperor_Mike]

I don't think, to have politicians pay attention to our concerns, we necessarily need Asian American politicians, or at least many of them. What we need is a well organized Asian American community-- like yello said, a bloc vote. If Asian Americans can sustain a bloc vote, then politicians will follow their promises because if they don't, they'll be punished (on the flip side, if they keep their promises, they know they'll be awarded). For instance, there aren't that many Jewish American politicians on the national stage, but most politicians don't go against Jewish American interests, because if they do, they know that the well-organized JA community can punish them.

That's easy when Jewish American interests cover large and critical areas such as the media. Having a bloc vote is a good thing, but in addition to that there must be leverage. The Jewish voters have this leverage by way of their active roles in society. What seems to be a well organised group of people only appears as such when there are big guns to back them up. I would imagine that any punitive measures against "rogue" politicians working against the Jewish bloc would be of greater consequence that any that come from an Asian one. There must be real power behind words and actions, not just some shadowy and questionable threat to a politician's career.

[ChinaLama]

The bloc vote IS the leverage. After all, that's how politicians get elected and unelected, by votes.

[Emperor_Mike]

The bloc vote IS the leverage. After all, that's how politicians get elected and unelected, by votes.

No, not really. Getting them into office is the first part. Getting them to do what they originally promised is a different matter. A politician can be swept into office by using one voting bloc, follow another bloc's agenda (i.e. special interests) and possibly get re-elected by people who appreciate his work in office. Doesn't happen all the time, but it's there.

It boils down to which group would give better results if appeased in the right manner. In an election an Asian bloc may be needed to win because other voting blocs might've been (temporarily) snatched up by the opposition. If the politician using the Asian bloc gets into office, his or her most obvious course of action would be to win over his opponent's supporters, thereby eliminating the need to cater to the bloc in the next election that won him or her the position in office.

At least that's what I'd do. It's a good strategy when you're dealing with minority sectors who have the votes required to put me into a position of power. Of course, such actions wouldn't be done overtly and it's terribly Machiavellian.

[ChinaLama]

I don't have any personal experience in campaign politics, but a politician following one bloc's agenda doesn't necessarily mean he'll disregard another's. It also depends on whether the bloc can be sustained through the next election. And it depends on whether the bloc that voted for the politician is savvy enough to vote for the other candidate IF their man doesn't follow through on his promises.

Also, I don't think any politician would be stupid enough to outright alienate some of his potential supporters. Say there are 10% Asian Am/ Ca voters in a city. Just b/c a politician would reach out to other groups that opposed him does not mean he's going to ignore his say 8 % of voters who were Asian Am/ Ca.

gee mike, you worked in a few campaigns and already you're so cynical. :'( Where's the hope in *public service?* :)

[Emperor_Mike]

I don't have any personal experience in campaign politics, but a politician following one bloc's agenda doesn't necessarily mean he'll disregard another's. It also depends on whether the bloc can be sustained through the next election. And it depends on whether the bloc that voted for the politician is savvy enough to vote for the other candidate IF their man doesn't follow through on his promises.

gee mike, you worked in a few campaigns and already you're so cynical. :'(

The thing about courting the voting power of a minority bloc is that once you have their aid and if you win over the opposition's supporters whilst in office, the importance of the initial group of voters gradually diminishes. No politician would disregard and go back on campaign promises outright. Rather they'd come up with excuses not to do something and let his or her former supporters cling onto hope.

One of the major reasons why the black movement gained such a momentum was due to the fact that they had power in numbers and politicians wouldn't be able to sustain power for long without the support of black Americans. It simply wasn't politically viable to leave them out of the running. At this juncture, I don't think the Asian-American population has what it takes to rally the amount of support needed to bring about the same effect, which is why fielding candidates for political office becomes the next best thing instead of relying on someone else to do our work for us. It'd be far better to get into the thick of things than to stand on the sidelines waiting for results to happen.

Sadly, cynical is what I do best but I prefer to call it being a pragmatist through and through. Idealism is great, but sometimes Reality doesn't like it when you dream too much. Pragmatism has its advantages. You'll get a better view of problems and come up with better solutions when you see the subject from every possible angle.

[Emperor_Mike]

Also, I don't think any politician would be stupid enough to outright alienate some of his potential supporters. Say there are 10% Asian Am/ Ca voters in a city. Just b/c a politician would reach out to other groups that opposed him does not mean he's going to ignore his say 8 % of voters who were Asian Am/ Ca.
...
Where's the hope in *public service?* :)


Isolate? No. Pay lip service and continue to do so for convenience sake? Yes. Politics is a dirty game and isn't for the faint of heart.

[BeTheReds]

Of Far East descent


Hey man.. the PC term is East Asian now! Get with the program! haha


Fluent in his mother tongue


Being that this messiah politician was born and raised in the USA, his mother tongue would probably be English.

That being said, I don't think it would be necessary at all for an AA candidate to be fluent in his ancestral language. It would only make him more available to relate with and be related to by other Asians of that ancestry. As he would be in America working on behalf of Americans, I think it is important beyond all else that he is fluent in English, and that he is familiar with the emerging AA community as a whole rather than its seperate constituents on an individual basis.

[Yeahman]

Hey man.. the PC term is East Asian now! Get with the program! haha
Geez, I can't keep up with all the new PC vocabulary these days!

Being that this messiah politician was born and raised in the USA, his mother tongue would probably be English.
OK he's mother'S tongue.
BTW, your use of the word "messiah" really hit me. You heard it here first, people! We have the prophecies. We're just waiting for "The Messiah." Spread the word.

That being said, I don't think it would be necessary at all for an AA candidate to be fluent in his ancestral language. It would only make him more available to relate with and be related to by other Asians of that ancestry. As he would be in America working on behalf of Americans, I think it is important beyond all else that he is fluent in English, and that he is familiar with the emerging AA community as a whole rather than its seperate constituents on an individual basis.
It's more of an image thing. He's more likely to be trusted by Asian Americans if he can show that he hasn't lost touch with his Asian roots.
Plus it doesn't hurt to be able to communicate with those of your own nationality.

[ChinaLama]

By no means am I saying that fielding more AsAm candidates is NOT a good thing. However, I think organizing a bloc vote is more effective than focusing on more AsAm candodates.


Asian Americans are 8% of the voters in CA, which is the state with the most electoral votes. Both Dems and Reps look toward winning the White House as their ultimate goal. If we're well organized, we can get both parties to pay attention to our concerns, because they'll need our votes to affect the race for the presidency.

Also, having AsAm politicians doesn't necessarily mean AsAm issues will be getting their due hearing, simply because AsAm politicians are subject to the same pressures as other politicians. Gary Locke, for instance, doesn't cater especially to Asian American interests, because most of his constituents are white. he can't *afford* to pay attention to Asian American interests solely.

[ChinaLama]

Isolate? No. Pay lip service and continue to do so for convenience sake? Yes. Politics is a dirty game and isn't for the faint of heart.


well, I think that depends, at least partly on whether that bloc really has the ability to reward or punish. Politicians have been paying lip service to Asian Americans for a long time, because the AsAm community wasn't well organized politically. That's been changing since 2000, when a 2-yr old organization, 80-20 (http://www.80-20initiative.net), organized a bloc vote among AsAms for the candidate it endorsed (according to an NSF-funded study, 80-20 induced a 70/28 vote for Gore, its endorsed candidate, in CA, and 66/32 or 66/33 nationwide).

[Emperor_Mike]

By no means am I saying that fielding more AsAm candidates is NOT a good thing. However, I think organizing a bloc vote is more effective than focusing on more AsAm candodates.


Asian Americans are 8% of the voters in CA, which is the state with the most electoral votes. Both Dems and Reps look toward winning the White House as their ultimate goal. If we're well organized, we can get both parties to pay attention to our concerns, because they'll need our votes to affect the race for the presidency.

Also, having AsAm politicians doesn't necessarily mean AsAm issues will be getting their due hearing, simply because AsAm politicians are subject to the same pressures as other politicians. Gary Locke, for instance, doesn't cater especially to Asian American interests, because most of his constituents are white. he can't *afford* to pay attention to Asian American interests solely.

It's a question of fielding appropriate and well balanced candidates that will address all issues and not just appear as a poster boy for the Asian community. Blocs are good things, I agree, but if the bloc isn't effective all the cooperation in world would amount to nothing. Of course, the main reason behind the organisation of the community is to create greater political awareness, not simply to help a politician win office and pay us lip service. This is something we shouldn't lose sight of and ought to be the goal.

Bottom line is, to get results, Asian Americans will have to jump into the political arena. I'd like to include Bismarck's great quote here on iron and blood, but that wouldn't be appropriate. However, the main crux of the matter is that issues of sufficient importance should not be resolved by a third party when the group that has the greatest stake in it can (and should) throw their own resources into the fray.

[Emperor_Mike]

well, I think that depends, at least partly on whether that bloc really has the ability to reward or punish. Politicians have been paying lip service to Asian Americans for a long time, because the AsAm community wasn't well organized politically. That's been changing since 2000, when a 2-yr old organization, 80-20 (http://www.80-20initiative.net), organized a bloc vote among AsAms for the candidate it endorsed (according to an NSF-funded study, 80-20 induced a 70/28 vote for Gore, its endorsed candidate, in CA, and 66/32 or 66/33 nationwide).

Comforting numbers to be sure, but all the same Al Gore lost the election (did he? Didn't he? That's another story.) Your statement on punitive measures by blocs in the way of votes was addressed by me in an earlier post. Certainly, having a real and tangible way to affect a politician's career in a negative manner for failing to live up to expectations is a great way to get things done, but is it possible at this point? I don't think it is. Unlike the Jewish bloc, Asian Americans simply do not have the influence needed to bring about such a favourable position. At this juncture, in any case.

[Yeahman]

That's easy when Jewish American interests cover large and critical areas such as the media. Having a bloc vote is a good thing, but in addition to that there must be leverage. The Jewish voters have this leverage by way of their active roles in society. What seems to be a well organised group of people only appears as such when there are big guns to back them up. I would imagine that any punitive measures against "rogue" politicians working against the Jewish bloc would be of greater consequence that any that come from an Asian one. There must be real power behind words and actions, not just some shadowy and questionable threat to a politician's career.
We can use the Chinese restuarants and dry cleaners as leverage! If they don't follow through with their promises, No Chinese food for you! or No dry cleaning for you! If they do follow through, free Chinese food and dry cleaning!
I think that's a pretty severe punishment and tempting reward.

[Emperor_Mike]

We can use the Chinese restuarants and dry cleaners as leverage! If they don't follow through with their promises, No Chinese food for you! or No dry cleaning for you! If they do follow through, free Chinese food and dry cleaning!
I think that's a pretty severe punishment and tempting reward.

Hardly a way to grow political power. :tongue:

[BeTheReds]

It's more of an image thing. He's more likely to be trusted by Asian Americans if he can show that he hasn't lost touch with his Asian roots.
Plus it doesn't hurt to be able to communicate with those of your own nationality.

His nationality is American.

[Yeahman]

That's been changing since 2000, when a 2-yr old organization, 80-20 (http://www.80-20initiative.net), organized a bloc vote among AsAms for the candidate it endorsed (according to an NSF-funded study, 80-20 induced a 70/28 vote for Gore, its endorsed candidate, in CA, and 66/32 or 66/33 nationwide).
Honestly, I question the importance of such a voting bloc. The Republican party has an image of being anti-minority. I doubt that Asians would ever vote Republican as a bloc. Not that I would want them too.
I think that on the national stage, the voting bloc would be more important in Democratic primaries. On the state and city level it would be easier to guide the bloc to either party.

[Yeahman]

His nationality is American.
Opps I meant ethnicity. Is that term OK, PC Policeofficer? "Ethnicity?"

[ChinaLama]

Comforting numbers to be sure, but all the same Al Gore lost the election (did he? Didn't he? That's another story.) Your statement on punitive measures by blocs in the way of votes was addressed by me in an earlier post. Certainly, having a real and tangible way to affect a politician's career in a negative manner for failing to live up to expectations is a great way to get things done, but is it possible at this point? I don't think it is. Unlike the Jewish bloc, Asian Americans simply do not have the influence needed to bring about such a favourable position. At this juncture, in any case.

yes, Gore did lose. However, the fact is, AsAms can affect the outcome of the NEXT ELECTION if we vote as a bloc. For a more concrete example, please refer to this email:

http://www.80-20initiative.net/em030604.html

It gives a hypothetical scenario in which the AsAm community can turn CA from a safe Dem seat to a contested state in the 2004 election.

Moreover, while I agree with you that more AsAms should become politically involved, the fact is that individual politicians don't have an awfully huge impact most of the time. Let's say we elect 10 more Representatives. Can 10-20 Representatives in a body of 435 Representatives have as much an effect as a nationally organized AsAm bloc vote? I would argue not-- say the AsAm community is NOT well organized in terms of votes or money, but we did have 10 more Reps. Then other politicians who don't have an incentive to care about AsAm interests can simply ignore their AsAm colleagues.

The two are NOT mutually exclusive. For instance, in New York, AsAm politicians running induces many more AsAms to register to vote or to go to the polls. But as you would agree, it comes down to numbers-- what numbers can create the greater outcome? A few more politicians, or a nationally organized community that can potentially affect who becomes the next President?

[ChinaLama]

Honestly, I question the importance of such a voting bloc. The Republican party has an image of being anti-minority. I doubt that Asians would ever vote Republican as a bloc. Not that I would want them too.
I think that on the national stage, the voting bloc would be more important in Democratic primaries. On the state and city level it would be easier to guide the bloc to either party.

In both 1992 and 1996, more AsAms voted for the Republican candidate than the Dem candidate.

[Emperor_Mike]

yes, Gore did lose. However, the fact is, AsAms can affect the outcome of the NEXT ELECTION if we vote as a bloc. For a more concrete example, please refer to this email:

http://www.80-20initiative.net/em030604.html

It gives a hypothetical scenario in which the AsAm community can turn CA from a safe Dem seat to a contested state in the 2004 election.

Moreover, while I agree with you that more AsAms should become politically involved, the fact is that individual politicians don't have an awfully huge impact most of the time. Let's say we elect 10 more Representatives. Can 10-20 Representatives in a body of 435 Representatives have as much an effect as a nationally organized AsAm bloc vote? I would argue not-- say the AsAm community is NOT well organized in terms of votes or money, but we did have 10 more Reps. Then other politicians who don't have an incentive to care about AsAm interests can simply ignore their AsAm colleagues.

The two are NOT mutually exclusive. For instance, in New York, AsAm politicians running induces many more AsAms to register to vote or to go to the polls. But as you would agree, it comes down to numbers-- what numbers can create the greater outcome? A few more politicians, or a nationally organized community that can potentially affect who becomes the next President?


As much as I'd love to come up with a counter argument, I think I have to sleep now. I'll give you my response tomorrow morning. :smile:

[Yeahman]

In both 1992 and 1996, more AsAms voted for the Republican candidate than the Dem candidate.
Wow really? I'd like to know why.
The few Asian Republicans I know are Republicans because they're pro-life. If that's the cause of the national split, then having a unified bloc may be a lot harder than I thought. Unless maybe we can minimize the effects of that wedge issue to keep the dissenters under 20%.

[SunWuKong]

In both 1992 and 1996, more AsAms voted for the Republican candidate than the Dem candidate.

ok, so i wasn't hallucinating. i always thought that Asian Americans were more republican/conservative than democrat/liberal.


CL, i know you're really defending a real life cause for you when you defend bloc voting, but i have to say, i'm not sure i like bloc voting that much. black people bloc vote, and the result is that republicans ignore black people because there's no way they'd get black votes, and democrats ignore black people also because it's a given that black people would vote democrat.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I strongly disagree with this. There's nothing wrong with a Taoist or Buddhist asian leader. Matter of fact i'd be more suspicious if they were Christian because it means part of their cultural ideals have already been negatively influenced by the west.

Christian ideals influenced western societies, not the other way around. Christianity is not a 'western' religion.

[Yeahman]

CL, i know you're really defending a real life cause for you when you defend bloc voting, but i have to say, i'm not sure i like bloc voting that much. black people bloc vote, and the result is that republicans ignore black people because there's no way they'd get black votes, and democrats ignore black people also because it's a given that black people would vote democrat.
We can try to take care so that doesn't happen to us but even if it does, the presidental election isn't the only election. There are the primaries and state and city elections. It's much easier to get people to swing votes on the local level. I'm a staunch Democrat but even I've voted Republican for senator. In NY they're all basically the same anyway. Most Republican politicans here are former Democrats.

[ChinaLama]

black people bloc vote, and the result is that republicans ignore black people because there's no way they'd get black votes, and democrats ignore black people also because it's a given that black people would vote democrat.

i think it'd be more effective to be a swing bloc, as in could swing to either party depending on which party helps us more, rather than being loyal to just one party.

[hooligan]

Instills fear? We don't want a leader preaching Asian supremacy.
who saidanything about supremacy? i want someone who people will garner respect and fear. you've got to make it that there are asian people that do that, how many asians are feared compared to whites? blacks? latinos?

[hooligan]

Sounds like somebody I know (http://forums.yellowworld.org/member.php?u=1).
hell, if someone wants to step up and get fucking annnggrrryyy for once and rip people a new one, i'm all for that.

[hooligan]

shiieet. i want to eat for free at any Asian restaurant i want. maybe i should be the Asian Al Sharpton.
fuck yeah you should WITH the crazy hair.

[hooligan]

But they still exert political pressure due to the fact that they can captivate and or influence their particular segment of the population. At the end of the day, however, it's really up to the politicians who get into office to decide whether or not they ought to implement certain agendas from their election platforms. A minority can get a politician into office, but a minority cannot influence legislation to the full extent required to bring about effective change without having a representative and advocate within the halls of government itself.
no way, it's about mobilizing people to change shit. politicians can be voted out of office, power in that form is NOT forever. when a leader can unite AAPIs and use that power to change politics/policies then that person will get my respect.

i don't think that government is necessarily what i had in mind when i thought of a leader, rather someone who's able to rally and unite the communities that they represent.

[BeTheReds]

Opps I meant ethnicity. Is that term OK, PC Policeofficer? "Ethnicity?"


Hey look, I'm not trying to be an asshole about this, in fact I couldn't care less on what actual definitions and usage definitions of words are. However, we need to be all on the same page if we are going to hold non-asians to unrealistic standards and jump on them for every little thing (which someone will) then we need to live up to those standards ourselves.

If you are content with "nationality" meaning which asian ethnicity you belong to, then you have no right to complain about being called a foreigner in the US. Because based on the definition of "nationality" you yourself are calling yourself and others like you "not american"

Someone can say it's all semantics and think I'm being all anal about it, but it is important that we establish a pro-active vocabulary.

[Yeahman]

I was being sacrastic.

[Yeahman]

who saidanything about supremacy? i want someone who people will garner respect and fear. you've got to make it that there are asian people that do that, how many asians are feared compared to whites? blacks? latinos?
One who instills fear will automatically lose the respect of many.
Which whites are feared? The KKK? The Aryan Nation?
Which blacks? The Black Panthers?
Which Latinos? The Latin Kings?

Look how far they're gotten.

[hooligan]

One who instills fear will automatically lose the respect of many.
Which whites are feared? The KKK? The Aryan Nation?
Which blacks? The Black Panthers?
Which Latinos? The Latin Kings?

Look how far they're gotten. don't take it too far, there needs to be someone in our community that's going to have that kind of presence you know? it's not like, "i'm scared of this guy because he's going to fuck me up" rather it should be like, "i'm scared because this guy can mentally, metaphorically, intellectually, and perhaps physically kick my ass." don't misconstrue me.

the black panthers wanted black statehood, not supremacy of their race, unlike the KKK. in my opinion, the black panthers represented a militancy in mobilization that AAPI communities need.

[Emperor_Mike]

yes, Gore did lose. However, the fact is, AsAms can affect the outcome of the NEXT ELECTION if we vote as a bloc. For a more concrete example, please refer to this email:

http://www.80-20initiative.net/em030604.html

It gives a hypothetical scenario in which the AsAm community can turn CA from a safe Dem seat to a contested state in the 2004 election.

Moreover, while I agree with you that more AsAms should become politically involved, the fact is that individual politicians don't have an awfully huge impact most of the time. Let's say we elect 10 more Representatives. Can 10-20 Representatives in a body of 435 Representatives have as much an effect as a nationally organized AsAm bloc vote? I would argue not-- say the AsAm community is NOT well organized in terms of votes or money, but we did have 10 more Reps. Then other politicians who don't have an incentive to care about AsAm interests can simply ignore their AsAm colleagues.

The two are NOT mutually exclusive. For instance, in New York, AsAm politicians running induces many more AsAms to register to vote or to go to the polls. But as you would agree, it comes down to numbers-- what numbers can create the greater outcome? A few more politicians, or a nationally organized community that can potentially affect who becomes the next President?

The only way an Asian bloc can affect politics in the manner that you describe (i.e. becoming an important factor in the race for the Presidency) is if there is a substantial power base brought on by increased influence. The question still remains as to how the Asian American population can rise to the challenge of being politically aware and active to obtain influence. I believe that this can be partially achieved by fielding more political candidates. The people must be given a stake in something and in my opinion there is no better way than to put an Asian American into office who can cater to every Asian out there. Once you have the support of the particular segment of the population you're after, I believe coordinating a bloc effort should, in theory, be somewhat easier. In other words, there must be a focus/rally point. Ideas alone won't galvanise the Asian electorate without a figure for them to pin their aspirations on. This figure must then jump into the "Great Game" in an effort to show his or her supporters and the political establishment that the Asian community is in fact well organised enough to be a viable force in politics.

[Emperor_Mike]

no way, it's about mobilizing people to change shit. politicians can be voted out of office, power in that form is NOT forever. when a leader can unite AAPIs and use that power to change politics/policies then that person will get my respect.

i don't think that government is necessarily what i had in mind when i thought of a leader, rather someone who's able to rally and unite the communities that they represent.


History is littered with the broken dreams of numerous individuals who believe that politics is not required to influence the course being taken by the Ship of State. Politicians in democratic nations obtain their office (ideally) with the consent of the governed and while politics is the means to an end, it is still an important one that we should not cast aside in so cavalier a manner. A great orator is nothing more than a big mouth if he or she cannot use the skill to benefit the supporters in public office. Of course, we're handicapped here in many respects including the fact that nationwide (in the US) Asians are not as numerous as African Americans or Latin Americans. So while we can have an Asian Malcolm X or Martin Luther King, we simply do not have the numbers required to make a similar impact. Therefore, I believe that we must resort to political office as the first step to gain the influence required to show the established political forces that Asian Americans are aware of their position in politics and society.

[>:^|]

don't take it too far, there needs to be someone in our community that's going to have that kind of presence you know? it's not like, "i'm scared of this guy because he's going to fuck me up" rather it should be like, "i'm scared because this guy can mentally, metaphorically, intellectually, and perhaps physically kick my ass."

I think that despite the type of disdain and sarcasm the American people seem to reserve for people such as Sharpton, Farrakhan and Jackson, we know on some level that being a leader bears a very high personal cost.

We had a previous thread on this, and nobody wanted to be that leader.

But the kind of person hooligan describes above, a person of color who can "mentally, metaphorically, intellectually, and perhaps physically" kick some ass is just the kind of person who threatens White America.

Witness MLK and Malcolm X.

Does the leader have to be a man? Many people are referring to him or her with male pronouns.

[mr. x]

theres no sense of urgency thats the problem. even guys like Sharpton are considered a joke cuz people see em as the PC police

[hooligan]

History is littered with the broken dreams of numerous individuals who believe that politics is not required to influence the course being taken by the Ship of State. Politicians in democratic nations obtain their office (ideally) with the consent of the governed and while politics is the means to an end, it is still an important one that we should not cast aside in so cavalier a manner. A great orator is nothing more than a big mouth if he or she cannot use the skill to benefit the supporters in public office. Of course, we're handicapped here in many respects including the fact that nationwide (in the US) Asians are not as numerous as African Americans or Latin Americans. So while we can have an Asian Malcolm X or Martin Luther King, we simply do not have the numbers required to make a similar impact. Therefore, I believe that we must resort to political office as the first step to gain the influence required to show the established political forces that Asian Americans are aware of their position in politics and society.
us asian americans just need a few decades to catch up. :wink: i'm betting in about 20 years there's going to be a surge in activism. harlem had it's rennaissance, why not monterey park? (i'm sorry about the spelling).

[hooligan]

I think that despite the type of disdain and sarcasm the American people seem to reserve for people such as Sharpton, Farrakhan and Jackson, we know on some level that being a leader bears a very high personal cost.

We had a previous thread on this, and nobody wanted to be that leader.

But the kind of person hooligan describes above, a person of color who can "mentally, metaphorically, intellectually, and perhaps physically" kick some ass is just the kind of person who threatens White America.

Witness MLK and Malcolm X.

Does the leader have to be a man? Many people are referring to him or her with male pronouns.
threaten away, that's what malcolm x did. sorry about the gender specific comments. margaret cho would be excellent. we need people like jackson and sharpton, but not necessarily to the degree to which they have been disdained.

[>:^|]

sorry about the gender specific comments.

Nah, I was just thinking about this ... and I think that unfortunately, if we do have a leader it will have to be a man.

[hooligan]

Nah, I was just thinking about this ... and I think that unfortunately, if we do have a leader it will have to be a man.
i should have been too because we need women out there too. i totally forgot their represenation.

[Emperor_Mike]

us asian americans just need a few decades to catch up. :wink: i'm betting in about 20 years there's going to be a surge in activism. harlem had it's rennaissance, why not monterey park? (i'm sorry about the spelling).

Given time anything is possible, really. But as I said, there must be a rallying point and this individual who serves as a beacon for Asian awareness must also have the ability and desire to take up the cause in the political world. All words and no action is pretty pointless, I think.

[Yeahman]

I think that despite the type of disdain and sarcasm the American people seem to reserve for people such as Sharpton, Farrakhan and Jackson, we know on some level that being a leader bears a very high personal cost.

We had a previous thread on this, and nobody wanted to be that leader.

But the kind of person hooligan describes above, a person of color who can "mentally, metaphorically, intellectually, and perhaps physically" kick some ass is just the kind of person who threatens White America.

Witness MLK and Malcolm X.

Does the leader have to be a man? Many people are referring to him or her with male pronouns.
MLK didn't want to kick white America's ass. He let white America kick his ass. And because of his courage to be able to walk straight into cops with clubs and dogs, he was embraced by all of America.
hooligan's assertion that we need Black Panther-type militancy is just plain stupid. What did the Black Panthers accomplish? Contrast that to what MLK accomplished. How many Black Panthers can the average Amerian name?
I understand that many of you people here are young and are inspired by militant movements but put the emotions aside and study these movements and you'll realize how inappropriate and futile they would be in the Asian American community today.

I am not advocating passive resistance but taking it to the level of the Black Panthers is an extreme that would have an adverse effect on our community.

And I also noticed that we are all assuming that the Messiah is a man. If we can find a woman that fits those requirements and could gain the respect of the Asian American community, great. But this woman would have to have some serious balls.

[hooligan]

hooligan's assertion that we need Black Panther-type militancy is just plain stupid. What did the Black Panthers accomplish? Contrast that to what MLK accomplished. How many Black Panthers can the average Amerian name?
I understand that many of you people here are young and are inspired by militant movements but put the emotions aside and study these movements and you'll realize how inappropriate and futile they would be in the Asian American community today. stupid? haha, i love how you simply dismiss this assertion as 'stupid'. the reason why we remember radicals such as the black panthers who tried to protect their communities is due to their ability to mobilize at a time when there was so much hate.

there's a reason why you remember the black panthers as a sum of the individuals and not simply a name with a face.

why not be militant? you're confusing violence with militancy, while violence may help, i'm talking about using agitational power in order to produce results. leaders in a sense are only incidental to the movement, but leaders of a militant movement can be beneficial. the agitational power i'm talking about is the ability to stir shit up, incite rallies, inspire people, perhaps using discipline and honor the way the military tends to do.

[Yeahman]

The only way an Asian bloc can affect politics in the manner that you describe (i.e. becoming an important factor in the race for the Presidency) is if there is a substantial power base brought on by increased influence. The question still remains as to how the Asian American population can rise to the challenge of being politically aware and active to obtain influence. I believe that this can be partially achieved by fielding more political candidates. The people must be given a stake in something and in my opinion there is no better way than to put an Asian American into office who can cater to every Asian out there. Once you have the support of the particular segment of the population you're after, I believe coordinating a bloc effort should, in theory, be somewhat easier. In other words, there must be a focus/rally point. Ideas alone won't galvanise the Asian electorate without a figure for them to pin their aspirations on. This figure must then jump into the "Great Game" in an effort to show his or her supporters and the political establishment that the Asian community is in fact well organised enough to be a viable force in politics.
While it's great to have Asian American politicans (I mean that's part of what we're fighting for right? Equal access in politics?) the Messiah should not be a politican. He can't be tainted by white constituents or special interests.
I don't want a watered-down Asian American movement. That's the only thing that Asian American politicans can offer us. At least until the movement gains steam and it becomes politically advantageous for them to embrace a pure Asian American movement.

[Yeahman]

stupid? haha, i love how you simply dismiss this assertion as 'stupid'. the reason why we remember radicals such as the black panthers who tried to protect their communities is due to their ability to mobilize at a time when there was so much hate.
Just like the Nazis.

there's a reason why you remember the black panthers as a sum of the individuals and not simply a name with a face.
Because they could not produce a leader worthy of rememberance by the general populous.

why not be militant? you're confusing violence with militancy, while violence may help, i'm talking about using agitational power in order to produce results. leaders in a sense are only incidental to the movement, but leaders of a militant movement can be beneficial. the agitational power i'm talking about is the ability to stir shit up, incite rallies, inspire people, perhaps using discipline and honor the way the military tends to do.
And I'm sure my mom and dad will warm up to that. :rolleyes:
Why not be militant? Because it marginalizes the movement. And we can't afford that especially with our numbers.

[hooligan]

Just like the Nazis.

Because they could not produce a leader worthy of rememberance by the general populous.

And I'm sure my mom and dad will warm up to that. :rolleyes:
Why not be militant? Because it marginalizes the movement. And we can't afford that especially with our numbers.
lol i see where you're coming from, my ideals of an AAPI leaders a little different. i want to see a firebrand, someone who's just angry, intelligent, and someone who inspires fear and respect.

you're thinking more along the lines of a national leader. martin luther king jr.-esque. i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then because i don't think either of us are wrong. we just want different things.

[Emperor_Mike]

While it's great to have Asian American politicans (I mean that's part of what we're fighting for right? Equal access in politics?) the Messiah should not be a politican. He can't be tainted by white constituents or special interests.
I don't want a watered-down Asian American movement. That's the only thing that Asian American politicans can offer us. At least until the movement gains steam and it becomes politically advantageous for them to embrace a pure Asian American movement.

A two tiered approach could work. One to inspire and an army of politically minded infantry to spearhead the effort. But the source of inspiration must be politically minded even if he or she has no wish to indulge in public office. You can't have results without knowing the rules to the game of politics.

[Yeahman]

lol i see where you're coming from, my ideals of an AAPI leaders a little different. i want to see a firebrand, someone who's just angry, intelligent, and someone who inspires fear and respect.

you're thinking more along the lines of a national leader. martin luther king jr.-esque. i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then because i don't think either of us are wrong. we just want different things.
I know where you're coming from too.
I'm looking at this from the point of view of a political pragmatist.
The ideal situtation would be 2 leaders. One like MLK with wider appeal and approval of at least a significant portion of white America who is in the perfect position to effect change. And one like Malcolm X, more militant, with less appeal and approval mostly within the Asian American community who is in the perfect position to give Asian Americans the much needed sense of empowerment. Those 2 leaders would have both tremendous mutual respect and clashing ideology.

OK I snapped out of my dream.